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Pasmerktas	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:25:00 - [1] I'd like to ask Devs, is this true that Incarna will lead EVE to microtransactions and will Incarna items will cost real money?
Commander Amy Stewart Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:31:00 - [2] Originally by: Pasmerktas I'd like to ask Devs, is this true that Incarna will lead EVE to microtransactions and will Incarna items will cost real money? Yes, pretty silk bras and such ^^ It's not been confirmed, it's just that CCP has stated repeatedly that microtransaction will only be used for vanity items; however which ones remains to be decided/revealed.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:33:00 - [3] Veldspar hat! Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

A Little Girl	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:36:00 - [4] This thread is now about what vanity items you would like in Incarna. Space Ponies!
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:37:00 - [5] Cod piece studded with morphite gems. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
Illwill Bill Noxious Intention	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:43:00 - [6] I want a kilt! Originally by: CCP Navigator Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
captain skinback	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:44:00 - [7] i wana wear nothing at all
My Postman	Posted - 2011.01.28 12:49:00 - [8] Concord NOS Concord Gun And the Jove frig i forgot the name.
yani dumyat Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.01.28 13:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Pasmerktas I'd like to ask Devs, is this true that Incarna will lead EVE to microtransactions and will Incarna items will cost real money? I doubt CCP has finalized anything, this dev blog is about as close as we get. Have to say that it is one the most uninsprirng things I've read in a long time, with no player made items the scope for individuality will be very low. Given that it's going to be years before incarna starts to live up to the fanfest demonstrations I find the whole business model very backwards looking. Think about what is likely to be happening in other virtual worlds like the sims and second life over the next couple of years, it makes the idea of offering a few pre made trinkets seem kinda shoddy. Certainly bears no resemblance to the idea of a sandbox.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2011.01.28 13:20:00 - [10] CCP will introduce microtransactions for vanity items, yes. When? Nobody knows, but since there aren't a lot of vanity items one could make for players piloting spaceships, yes, Incarna will "lead" to microtransactions. But no, not all Incarna items will cost money.
Ashley Dinova Very Important POD Pilots	Posted - 2011.01.28 15:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Chribba Veldspar hat! Only a hat? I want rings, necklaces, earrings, piercings, beltbuckles, etc! -AD-
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 15:39:00 - [12] Vanity items - my weakness!! Noooooooooooooo.
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.01.28 15:48:00 - [13] Yes, Incarna will bring micro-transactions. It'll probably be tied into the PLEX system, we've seen hints of it on test. While I'd prefer PLEX be for timecards alone, I personally think PLEX can handle the additional load. PLEX prices will of course rise a bit as demand increases, but I see supply increasing right along side it without issue. In most cases I'd be practically frothing at the mouth thinking about RMT, but in a game as vast as Eve, things like earrings and tattoos are such a minor thing that I simply don't care if they nickle and dime us for them. If they make some extra money from people wanting to play barbie designer in Eve, so be it Of course we should all be concerned about micro-transactions spreading beyond vanity items. Even incarna features like renting storefronts should never be tied to micro-transactions (if that's player controlled maybe we'll get a property market!). In the end, micro-transactions stifle a game, tread with care CCP.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.01.28 15:53:00 - [14] Originally by: mechtech Of course we should all be concerned about micro-transactions spreading beyond vanity items... It will, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that it is heading that way. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 15:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: mechtech Of course we should all be concerned about micro-transactions spreading beyond vanity items... It will, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that it is heading that way. It has proven to be a more successul model for generating income. Why everyone is afraid of it, I will not understand. I suppose the biggest argument against it is that "I worked hard for this stuff and someone can just buy it with real money from the website!!1!", which is true, but some people spend more time working at their job than others, and coincidentally, have less time to play than you do. It all evens out in the end. If someone wants to drop their hard earned money on something, I don't see how that is any business of yours.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.01.28 16:24:00 - [16] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 28/01/2011 16:27:31 Originally by: Jisu Viscera Edited by: Jisu Viscera on 28/01/2011 16:00:31 Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: mechtech Of course we should all be concerned about micro-transactions spreading beyond vanity items... It will, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that it is heading that way. It has proven to be a more successul model for generating income. Why everyone is afraid of it, I will not understand. I suppose the biggest argument against it is that "I worked hard for this stuff and someone can just buy it with real money from the website!!1!", which is true, but some people spend more time working at their job than others, and coincidentally, have less time to play than you do. It all evens out in the end. If someone wants to drop their hard earned money on something, I don't see how that is any business of yours. Microtransactions are the future of MMO's - so get used to it. It's a concern because it does nothing to improve my gaming experience, in fact it diminishes it. I pay for the sub, so I should be on equal footing with other subscribers, as far as the game is concerned. If this was a PvE game, I couldn't care less what you can buy, since I wouldn't be affected by any of it. Since EVE is all about player interaction, you having the ability to buy yourself advantages directly out of game is a big problem. Vanity items I don't mind, but gameplay advantages is a big no-no. The moment I have to pay extra in addition to the normal sub to stay competative with other players CCP can go ** themselves. And don't counter with the BS "you can already do all that". You can't. It all goes through the game and is determined by the people already playing. They decide what characters to sell and at what price and how much they will pay you for a PLEX. It all goes through the game and no advantage is magically added to you. It keeps things in balance and helps to fight account selling and RMT. It is good at generating income though, but mainly for F2P games or with vanity items in games using a subscription model. When you already pay a full sub and are told you have to pay extra to get access to content, people tend to get **ed. When you play for free and you are asked to pay a dollar or two to get access to a new area, it seems a reasonable request, since they have to cover the costs of developing that new content somehow and you don't pay anything for things you don't use. This model is great, but it won't work on every game type. Your traditional themepark MMO is great for it. There is no player driven market, players actions don't influence one another in any real sense, the world is heavily sharded and instanced and it doesn't matter in the slightest if you can't travel freely in the universe. All is easily dividable and sellable in little rides and packages. You try that in EVE and it all goes to hell.
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 16:31:00 - [17] Edited by: Jisu Viscera on 28/01/2011 16:33:13 Originally by: Destination SkillQueue You don't have any idea what will and won't be a MT, nor do you have any idea how it will effect the community on a whole (especially considering all the ISK being sold on the net right now anyway). Don't play the fear mongering card. And seriously, you cannot argue that it wouldn't be extremely hilarious to pop someone's "bought" Battleship soon after they purchased it. Though I doubt ships will make it to the list.
Everinsearch	Posted - 2011.01.28 18:10:00 - [18] UH, free2playPAY2WIN is FAIL. Add These Items but make us mission for them or create them through elaborate PI. Which of course makes PVPers able to get them as well. Because unlike implants, they should drop off your toon into your biomass when your podded. also, F&I?
Something Random Gallente The Barrow Boys	Posted - 2011.01.28 18:18:00 - [19] If they added a Lego Space Helmet in i might be tempted............ might............. Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm: Aint that right?
Tiffis	Posted - 2011.01.28 18:24:00 - [20]
Captain Die Suicide by Cop	Posted - 2011.01.28 18:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Chribba Veldspar hat! Oh god please make it look like this! --- DIE
Mr M	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:19:00 - [22] I want a shiny red codpiece. Word up! Get paid ISK writing about Eve
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Jisu Viscera Edited by: Jisu Viscera on 28/01/2011 16:00:31 Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: mechtech Of course we should all be concerned about micro-transactions spreading beyond vanity items... It will, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that it is heading that way. It has proven to be a more successul model for generating income. Why everyone is afraid of it, I will not understand. There are at least a couple of problems with MTs: One is that if MT items become such a hot income generator it would be natural for CCP to place more focus on those items (more developer resources), and eventually try to make them the focus of game mechanics. The other is that even at the outset these "vanity items" will be a visible immersion breaker due to their out-of game nature. ...
Amaya Thorn	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:28:00 - [24] All I ask for is a palanquin and some slaves to steer 'er by.
Logan LaMort	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:30:00 - [25] I'm pretty sure even CCP don't really have a concrete plan of what they're going to do with this. Remember, the micro transaction comment was at the bottom of a blog reassuring us that they won't go through with plex for remaps. They were basically saying they won't do micro transactions for an in game advantage, and they cited vanity items as an example of a possible route. Considering it's possible to play EVE by only buying plex with ISK and that they've never charged us for an expansion, I don't exactly see CCP becoming a money grabbing company like EA or Activision just yet. It's all up in the air and no one really knows what is going to happen, possibly not even CCP. I will speculate however, that whatever they will do, will probably be entirely optional and possible to be done with PLEX, which can be bought with real money or ISKies.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:35:00 - [26] Can anyone explaing to me why the official "35$=700kk" is totally OK and fine while everyone is so afraid of introduction of RMT(for non vanity items). So as long as it's 35$=700kk=golem its ok, but as soon as it becomes 35$=golem its not ok?
Valator Uel Caldari Pax Minor Asylum	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:35:00 - [27] As long as we can use (reverse redeemed) ingame plexs for these microtransactions I'm ok with it. Nothing in this game should be 100% unavailable if you don't want to use RL $$.
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:36:00 - [28] Edited by: Jisu Viscera on 28/01/2011 19:36:49 Originally by: Razin There are at least a couple of problems with MTs: One is that if MT items become such a hot income generator it would be natural for CCP to place more focus on those items (more developer resources), and eventually try to make them the focus of game mechanics. The other is that even at the outset these "vanity items" will be a visible immersion breaker due to their out-of game nature. All I want are more clothes options for my character when Incarna launches. I could really care less what happens after that. And since people are so afraid of MT, I could customize myself and feel unique about the outcome.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Chribba Veldspar hat! Chribba masks!
Gravemind GER Caldari Community for Justice Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:43:00 - [30] Vanity Items ruined my Team Fortress 2.... now will Vanity Items ruin my EVE too?!!! ragequit U SIR ARE A SPAI!
yani dumyat Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Archbeholder Can anyone explaing to me why the official "35$=700kk" is totally OK and fine while everyone is so afraid of introduction of RMT(for non vanity items). So as long as it's 35$=700kk=golem its ok, but as soon as it becomes 35$=golem its not ok? Main difference is that in the plex system nothing is spawned other than the plex itself. That means that it has no effect on the ammount of, isk or minerals in the game, which is important for market balance. Now consider how many people are involved in making that golem, form the moon goo, low end minerals, component manufacture, datacore colection, making the ship itself and trading it on the market. If it simply becomes $35 for a golwm then the entire economy and all the people involved in it have been bypassed. PLEX for PIZZA
mkmin	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:47:00 - [32] Vanity items should be okay as long as they are player designed and sellable for isk. CCP has put player designed as a low priority (i.e. never), but should be the only way vanity items should be acceptable to the players.
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:50:00 - [33] Originally by: yani dumyat Now consider how many people are involved in making that golem, form the moon goo, low end minerals, component manufacture, datacore colection, making the ship itself and trading it on the market. If it simply becomes $35 for a golwm then the entire economy and all the people involved in it have been bypassed. You're assuming the market will halt because no one will have a reason to buy anything in-game when they could just go outside of it and buy it with real money instead. That's pretty absurd. And the underlying issue you're talking about could easily be fixed by just making whatever was purchased outside of the game untradeable.
yani dumyat Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Jisu Viscera You're assuming the market will halt because no one will have a reason to buy anything in-game when they could just go outside of it and buy it with real money instead. That's pretty absurd. And the underlying issue you're talking about could easily be fixed by just making whatever was purchased outside of the game untradeable. So you want a golem that's appeared out of nowhere and is untradeable. Given that this golem would have to have a unique ID different to that of a normal golem you could almost call it a unique ship. You want a shop where people can buy unique ships for RL cash that you can't buy with ISK? I'll give you the credit of intelligence and not explain why this is a really really bad idea.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:35:00 - [35] Why re-invent the wheel? If you want micro-transaction success, then copy the Farmville model. Create a viral Facebook app called EveVille and allow people to Mine, manage Industry and Manufacturing, and play the from EveVille. Tie EveVille directly into the Eve market and economy. EveVille rewards the user with more stuff to decorate their planet with. Or to build ships to attack other PvP enabled planets with. Or add a simcity aspect to it and allow users to manage their populations with social policies, taxes, and bribes. Folks can create a utopia (or even a Sansha like distopia.) If you really want to be lazy about it, license the farmville app and change all the graphics to be Eve related. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:44:00 - [36] Edited by: Jisu Viscera on 28/01/2011 20:46:14 Originally by: yani dumyat Edited by: yani dumyat on 28/01/2011 20:34:54 Originally by: Jisu Viscera You're assuming the market will halt because no one will have a reason to buy anything in-game when they could just go outside of it and buy it with real money instead. That's pretty absurd. And the underlying issue you're talking about could easily be fixed by just making whatever was purchased outside of the game untradeable. So you want a golem that's appeared out of nowhere and is untradeable. Given that this golem would have to have a unique ID different to that of a normal golem you could almost call it a unique ship. Why is this a bad thing? Your argument makes little, if any, sense. Quote: You want a shop where people can buy unique ships for RL cash that you can't buy with ISK? I'll give you the credit of intelligence and not explain why this is a really really bad idea. What makes that ship unique? It was bought in the store and is identical to the one you purchase in the game, except that it can't be traded so the market stays intact. You also brought ships into this, I never said anything about ships being purchasable outside of the game. Don't insult my intelligence either. You're being dumb. Quote: Edit to add that I really like the idea of vanity items, that's why I'm posting about this issue. MT has the potential to be off putting to a lot of people so I'm hoping CCP will do it right. So why are you making a big deal of it without knowing ANYTHING beyond the basics about it? You're acting like everyone else who is afraid of change by coming up with the worst possible conclusions to this without having any shred of evidence that it would happen in the first place. But I agree with you at least on the vanity item part.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:49:00 - [37] You are already at a disadvantage in EvE against people willing to spend more money on extra accounts. Why is this any different?
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:53:00 - [38] Originally by: Ana Vyr You are already at a disadvantage in EvE against people willing to spend more money on extra accounts. Why is this any different? It says a lot about the difficulty of the game when you can easily manage ~4 game clients simultaneously
yani dumyat Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.01.28 21:11:00 - [39] Originally by: Jisu Viscera What makes that ship unique? It was bought in the store and is identical to the one you purchase in the game, except that it can't be traded so the market stays intact. You also brought ships into this, I never said anything about ships being purchasable outside of the game. I'm talking about ships because someone specifically asked why buying a golem for $35 was any different to buying a plex and then spending the money on a golem. It is unique because to make it untradeable it would have to have a different ID to a normal golem, otherwise when you package it the server would see it as the same as a normal golem. Ok slightly tenuous but it's only one small step from that to a truly unique ship. Another point is that if a golem costs $35 to buy from CCP and 2 plex can be sold for 700 mill then CCP would be undercutting players by nearly a third. Can't see that being popular. Same economics applies to any tradeable item regardless of whether it's a golem or a jacket. Originally by: Jisu Viscera Don't insult my intelligence either. You're being dumb. I quite specifically credited you with intelligence, it was not meant as an insult. Strange as it may seem not everyone on these forums throws out random insults for no apparent reason.
Jisu Viscera Minmatar Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.28 21:29:00 - [40] Originally by: yani dumyat It is unique because to make it untradeable it would have to have a different ID to a normal golem, otherwise when you package it the server would see it as the same as a normal golem. Ok slightly tenuous but it's only one small step from that to a truly unique ship. Semantics. It's the same ship. Quote: Another point is that if a golem costs $35 to buy from CCP and 2 plex can be sold for 700 mill then CCP would be undercutting players by nearly a third. Can't see that being popular. Same economics applies to any tradeable item regardless of whether it's a golem or a jacket. See point about making them untradeable. Quote: I quite specifically credited you with intelligence, it was not meant as an insult. Strange as it may seem not everyone on these forums throws out random insults for no apparent reason. Then maybe I misinterpreted what you said. Still, that whole line was confusing. You're bringing things into the argument that I never once mentioned. So, maybe argue with those people and not me. My opinions are pretty clear.
PTang	Posted - 2011.01.28 22:10:00 - [41] I don't want vanity items. I want vanity item blue prints for the smae prce as a single vantiy item might cost. then other players that want said vanity item can buy them off me for isk, and never have to pay real cash. not to mention I want to be able to pay with plex, so I can just buy ples with in-game money. because I will never pay an extra $ to buy anything, ever. but I might if it's an investment, and I can do it with ingame money.
Commander Amy Stewart Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.29 10:30:00 - [42] I want eyelash extenders for muPLEX! At least some really good use for my plexes ...
Ai Shun	Posted - 2011.01.29 11:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue It's a concern because it does nothing to improve my gaming experience, in fact it diminishes it. I pay for the sub, so I should be on equal footing with other subscribers, as far as the game is concerned. If this was a PvE game, I couldn't care less what you can buy, since I wouldn't be affected by any of it. Since EVE is all about player interaction, you having the ability to buy yourself advantages directly out of game is a big problem. Vanity items I don't mind, but gameplay advantages is a big no-no. The moment I have to pay extra in addition to the normal sub to stay competative with other players CCP can go **** themselves. Why should a player who can invest more time in the game have an unfair advantage over a player who cannot?
Commander Amy Stewart Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.29 12:01:00 - [44] Edited by: Commander Amy Stewart on 29/01/2011 12:02:24 Originally by: Ai Shun Why should a player who can invest more time in the game have an unfair advantage over a player who cannot? Why should a player who can invest more money in the game have an unfair advantage over a player who cannot? Still it already happens, we can buy 80 million SP characters for (PLEX for ISK) for $ and superior ships and modules too. EVE and the world aren't fair, personal merit is just a small part of what determines your success. We should know that by now. Post Scriptum: this is not criticism, just a wake up call for those who still think things should be 'fair'.
Ai Shun	Posted - 2011.01.29 12:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Commander Amy Stewart EVE and the world aren't fair, personal merit is just a small part of what determines your success. We should know that by now. Exactly. When I see the "RMT is unfair :crais:" type posts on a forum, I always have to ask the time related questions. Because typically the players who ***** about RMT/Microtransactions as being "unfair" won't consider their own inherent advantages. Play with what you've got and make the most of it.
Toros Revoke Revoke Foundation	Posted - 2011.01.29 13:57:00 - [46] So long as they re-introduce my old bathrobe and haircut I don't care what they do
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.01.29 14:27:00 - [47] It should serve as an ISK sink, taking a straight ISK fee out the economy for vanity items.If you just happen sell PLEX to gather the ISK, so be it. But of course, it won't happen that way. Why let a little thing called good game design and economy management take priority over making more money? ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.29 16:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Patient 2428190 But of course, it won't happen that way. Why let a little thing called good game design and economy management take priority over making more money? Too bad your mom isn't in charge of CCP.
Commander Amy Stewart Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.29 17:41:00 - [49] Well as the vanity (and other?) items are going to be sold for (parts of) plex anyway I'm quite curious about what will be in the plex store. Yes, they may be mini-transactions and someone payed RL cash for it, it doesn't mean you can't pay for it with your in-game ISK. As a result, players who buy plex to sell it in the game will get more ISK for their money too, which isn't neccessarily bad imo. I like vanity items. I grinded FoW/UW in guildwars to get an armour set that didn't give any stats advantage at all, just for the looks. Yes I am like that.
Didn't I Quit	Posted - 2011.01.29 17:47:00 - [50] Edited by: Didn''t I Quit on 29/01/2011 17:48:08 nomnomnom i'll take 4 of those diamonte studded cod straps, a tempory sex and bloodline change for this weekends visit to jita, three of those furry megathrons, three sleeves worth of tattoos and a pink hat please

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