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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:09:00 -
[1]
Is it possible to catch a ship with 2.6 align time in low-sec, assuming the ship has no cloak-while-warping capability? Also assume the pilot enters the system and warps away.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:15:00 -
[2]
yes, using a remote sensor boosted hic
-------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! |
Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:16:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sazkyen
Is it possible to catch a ship with 2.6 align time in low-sec, assuming the ship has no cloak-while-warping capability? Also assume the pilot enters the system and warps away.
Remote sensor boosted remote repped Arazu and guy with very good reflexes
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:20:00 -
[4]
In theory its possible, but theres a good chance that when your client recognizes such ship decloaking, it already is entering warp. But generally - you want alot of sensor boosters, signal amplifiers, targeting subcontroller rigs or better - remote sensor boosters.
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Aelwara Andven
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:31:00 -
[5]
Its called an instalock legion for a reason.
That or a HIC with remote boosting.
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Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:34:00 -
[6]
Heh - you can lock even pods in 0.8 secs - that is overkill considering that server does everything in 1sec ticks.
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Cygnus Zhada
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Posted - 2011.02.02 12:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Carniflex Heh - you can lock even pods in 0.8 secs - that is overkill considering that server does everything in 1sec ticks.
No you can't. Unless they messed up, lagged or didn't warp off.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:22:00 -
[8]
Thanks for the info.
I asked because I fly around in a cruiser with 2.6s align time (190m sig radius) and I wanted to know my odds. It does warp real fast but I still don't like camps.
Also, does this 1s tick mean that, say, 0.9s align time is an overkill? The Dramiel is capable of achieving this.
I'm not sure what's the align time of PODs but I suspect it's probably 1s if that's the smallest timeframe recognized by the server.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:53:00 -
[9]
Pods instawarp. You cant lock them in time if player is spamming warp - if he doesnt lag or something.
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McRoll
Minmatar The Legion of Darkness
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Posted - 2011.02.02 15:14:00 -
[10]
You must take your scan resolution into account as well. A cruiser can be locked faster than a frig so your 2,6 sec align time would be no problem to lock with my legion. If you want to be sure, take a shuttle or an inty, a Dramiel aligns also too fast for being locked. Cruiser and above- no chance I'd say.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 15:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sazkyen Thanks for the info.
I asked because I fly around in a cruiser with 2.6s align time (190m sig radius) and I wanted to know my odds. It does warp real fast but I still don't like camps.
Also, does this 1s tick mean that, say, 0.9s align time is an overkill? The Dramiel is capable of achieving this.
I'm not sure what's the align time of PODs but I suspect it's probably 1s if that's the smallest timeframe recognized by the server.
Thats very fast for a cruiser, most people casually camping with battlecruisers should miss you. Just be on lookout for sensor booster effects on legions and HICs, they can catch most stuff.
Generally its a good idea in anything but a frigate to burn back to gate if a gatecamp is present. If they engage at least you can jump back, hopefully the fast tackle will be stuck on otherside.
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AristotleOnassis
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:47:00 -
[12]
Thats why u need a good corp.
there is only a few ships that can target you down
loki, arazu, and interceptors and dram
the frigs gets murdered by the gate guns. count them out.
loki and arazu are both good killmails. after scouting the gate, jump your tengu and a cyno in, he will agro you, drop him with everything your corp has, poof. killmail.
It is very easy to trap greedy t3 with sens res mods.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:59:00 -
[13]
Can I hope to break lock with an ECM burst?
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Aperture Science inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 02/02/2011 17:49:33
Originally by: Carniflex Heh - you can lock even pods in 0.8 secs - that is overkill considering that server does everything in 1sec ticks.
I believe it updates state(s) every 1 second (the states relevant to this particular gamemechanic anyway).
So I am not sure whether sub-second precision is possible or not, as update frequency isn't necessarily linked to precision.
IE:
0.0 -> updatestate 0.1 -> pilot A presses warp button 0.2 -> pilot B presses scramble button 1.0 -> update state
The question is whether it updates states with 1 second precision or with actual precision. It would seem more logical to me that it uses actual precision, making your argument invalid.
The fact the server might update states only once every second doesn't mean things can't take place within that second, it just means your client is always 1 second behind on what ACTUALLY happens, causing a minor desync resulting in you not being able to react to another player's action until it is updated in the state, meaning you can add a variable of 0-1 second to every 'reaction' time you discuss. Meaning if something can align in 2.6 seconds you effectively have a window of 1.6 to 2.6 seconds (depending on whether it happens right after, in between or right before the state updates) to see the guy decloak and start to align, and to click, lock & scramble him. Meaning if someone had a 1 second align time, to YOU as VIEWER his align time varies from 0 to 1 second. It is exactly this that makes tackling very fast ships such a 'hit-miss' chance based endeavour.
If what I said is incorrect, ignore my brainfart
__________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.02 18:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aelwara Andven Its called an instalock legion for a reason.
That or a HIC with remote boosting.
The overview has a refresh rate of once very 2.5 seconds.
The question is if the target uncloaks at the very end of the window can you lock in .1 seconds?
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Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.02 19:08:00 -
[16]
just keep in mind that overview has about 500 ms update cycle, module activation has 500 ms cycle (when primed and blinking), and another 100-200 ms just for ping
Something tells me there's more than 1 back-and-forth between server and client between time when new ship appears and disruptor is activated. That means you multiply your ping by 2-4 times.
Add minimum 500 ms delay for lock time - with 1500 scan res. Add another 100-200 for the "lock complete" thingy to flash a couple times before adding the target icon.
The result is virtually impossible to lock something with 2 second warp. 2.5 sec may be possible but it's kind of random, depends how lucky you get with the overview and module cycles.
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Newbie Ned
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2011.02.02 19:14:00 -
[17]
No-one has mentioned interceptors, possibly because they seem to have gone out of vogue at the moment, but any half decent inty should lock a cruiser with 2.6 sec align time, notwithstanding the update/tick issues mentioned. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.02.02 19:32:00 -
[18]
I assume you are talking about the Cynabal judging by the stats. It will get locked down by a properly fit and remote-boosted HIC, Lachesis or instalock T3 without trouble. Done it countless times, if you see a heavily boosted tackler assume you will get tackled and plan your escape accordingly.
I've personally witnessed a shuttle being tackled at a gate by a remote boosted and logi supported Keres with a ridiculous scanres at around 6k. Never thought this was even possible as everybody said the shuttles instawarp, but apparently it wasnt instawarp enough to escape that Keres and its pilot with superhuman reflexes.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 20:38:00 -
[19]
Edited by: TimMc on 02/02/2011 20:39:39
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Aelwara Andven Its called an instalock legion for a reason.
That or a HIC with remote boosting.
The overview has a refresh rate of once very 2.5 seconds.
The question is if the target uncloaks at the very end of the window can you lock in .1 seconds?
Citation needed. I think its 1 second and your lag is terrible.
Edit: I've seen people lock covert ops haulers with enough remote boosting and a sec lag on the haulers side. No way the refresh is 2.5 secs.
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Cygnus Zhada
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Posted - 2011.02.02 23:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: TimMc Edit: I've seen people lock covert ops haulers with enough remote boosting and a sec lag on the haulers side. No way the refresh is 2.5 secs.
Only way for that to happen if they mess up their cloaking, but yeah it's not 2,5 seconds. There's a 2 second "lag" where you activated cloak but still show up on overview (can't be targeted anymore obviously) but that's not the same time(r) as you get from uncloaking.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
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Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.05 11:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 02/02/2011 17:49:33
Originally by: Carniflex Heh - you can lock even pods in 0.8 secs - that is overkill considering that server does everything in 1sec ticks.
I believe it updates state(s) every 1 second (the states relevant to this particular gamemechanic anyway).
So I am not sure whether sub-second precision is possible or not, as update frequency isn't necessarily linked to precision.
IE:
0.0 -> updatestate 0.1 -> pilot A presses warp button 0.2 -> pilot B presses scramble button 1.0 -> update state
The question is whether it updates states with 1 second precision or with actual precision. It would seem more logical to me that it uses actual precision, making your argument invalid.
The fact the server might update states only once every second doesn't mean things can't take place within that second, it just means your client is always 1 second behind on what ACTUALLY happens, causing a minor desync resulting in you not being able to react to another player's action until it is updated in the state, meaning you can add a variable of 0-1 second to every 'reaction' time you discuss. Meaning if something can align in 2.6 seconds you effectively have a window of 1.6 to 2.6 seconds (depending on whether it happens right after, in between or right before the state updates) to see the guy decloak and start to align, and to click, lock & scramble him. Meaning if someone had a 1 second align time, to YOU as VIEWER his align time varies from 0 to 1 second. It is exactly this that makes tackling very fast ships such a 'hit-miss' chance based endeavour.
If what I said is incorrect, ignore my brainfart
I do not know exactly as this 1 sec 'tick' timer works, but based on how guns behave it seems that subtick 'stuff' happens only during autorepeat. When you have RoF of 5.5 secs, and pop targets in 1 volley, then there is 0.5 sec while you cant do anything with these guns, at 6 sec they deactivate, you can reactivate them and at 7th sec they fire off next volley. While if you are not killing the target in 1 volley then guns cycle every 5.5 sec until target pops.
Basically if I understand it correct EVE just rounds up to next full second any actions that need direct player input. So difference between 0.9 sec lock time and 1.1 sec lock time is actually 1 full second. Same with warping. Dunno in what order warp scrambling and entering warp are counted at the end of tick however. I.e., is it always in the same order - warp pefore scram, the other way around, or is it resolved in some more clever way, ie counting the actual speeds or just making stuff to happen in the order it was inserted the previous second.
CCP seems to not like to talk about the 1 second ticks the server function on. Sometimes they do mention it however - for example one of the last devblogs about fighting lag, if I remember correct there is some stuff talked about the 1 second server tick as well. There is this nice graph about how the cyckle works.
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 07/02/2011 02:22:53
[Thrasher, POD Snatcher] Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II -----------------------> 28.8km range, 34.6km range OH Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S Standard Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Precision Light Missile
Small Targeting System Subcontroller I Small Targeting System Subcontroller I Small Targeting System Subcontroller I
[Stiletto, POD SNATCHER] Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II -----------------------> 24km range, 28.8km range OH Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor S
Small Targeting System Subcontroller I Small Targeting System Subcontroller I
Thrasher takes 1.2 seconds to lock a pod (2118.3 Scan Res)
Stilleto takes 0.6 seconds to lock a POD (4486.8 Scan Res)
BOTH WITHOUT REMOTE SENSOR BOOSTING!
Fits can be made better with faction points/ sensor boosters/ t2 rigs/ REMOTE SENSOR BOOSTING/ Skirmish Links & other bonus's/boosters/implants etc - All depends on how much isk u wanna spend....
Ive seen these fits used with and without RSB and they work very well...
Hope this Helps....
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Pods instawarp. You cant lock them in time if player is spamming warp - if he doesnt lag or something.
i find the best way is to drop a dictor bubble before he pops and drops into a POD! - Even without lag he aint going nowhere - and u get the laugh knowing he's probably raging coz u just popped his clone with a HG implant set etc/other expennsive implants/collected his bounty :)
[EDIT] - Typo's...
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- Wardeneo -
- Elite Forum Ninja -
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Mister Normal
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Korg Leaf yes, using a remote sensor boosted hic
^^^ This.
Works against pods too.
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2011.02.07 08:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Newbie Ned No-one has mentioned interceptors, possibly because they seem to have gone out of vogue at the moment, but any half decent inty should lock a cruiser with 2.6 sec align time, notwithstanding the update/tick issues mentioned.
Noone (sane) uses inties in lowsec gatecamps due to turrets being impossible to speedtank + they target the fastest eager beaver + they have the tendency to pop the inty very very fast.
I.
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.07 09:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wardeneo weird numbers
I like your base range of 28.8 and 36km OH point on the thrasher. Also, it doesn't matter because unless you use bubbles that pod will get out due to lag, reaction time etc. All it's good at is catching people who aren't paying attention or to snatch the pod mail.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
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