ECM isn't broken... there are plenty of counters, if you don't want to use em then that's not the dev's problem!

All the cheese in the world would never be enough for the ECM whiners

They really should change ECM from 'chance' based to falloff based.

Then we will see ECM ships having to come in a bit closer to be effective.

Nice that you provide a very circumstance based defence though. ECM works every time regardless of conditions.

You do realize, assuming you can control range in regard to your opponents (ie., they are not much faster than you, and superior in a short-range encounter), that an Arazu can lock down 4 ships while also maintaining a point with superior damage and a reasonable tank, yes? Not only that, given a favourable setting like that, it will do it all of the time, not just having a chance to...

As irritating as ECM can be. It is a fact of EVE. Come prepared or loose your ship... dust off refit and continue.

Even I have lost ships to the evil ecm. Some fight I have won even with ECM... they are killed quickly.

I would like the chance based effort of ECM to be dropped though. And maybe changed to something where if the ecm dudes cycle is lower than your Sensor Strength... there is no chance of being jammed.

Most game developers think "Now you are not allowed to play" is a ridiculous game mechanic..

A falcon can fit 6 jammers no problem.

Of course you can play. When you are jammed, you are playing - if you are being jammed it means someone else is NOT being jammed. So take one for the team, it's only 20 seconds jeez. In the meantime you could be, I dunno, burning towards the falcon so the minute the lock breaks you are on top of him and he's in range, perhaps?

More stupid justifications for a broken mechanic.

Yeah right, I'll just disable the scrams and webs that are on me so I can come on over to be insta jammed by your next cycle. It should be easy since I can't lock anything to retaliate. Also not everyone flies in a gang.

Take a Megathron, add an ECCM = 41.2 sensor strength

A falcon has a 35.6% chance to jam the megathron for each racial jammer it has fitted.

The Megathron has had to give up 25% of its mids to fit that ECCM.

A falcon can fit 6 jammers no problem.


Also bear in mind not all falcons are used in small gang pvp but also used in the 10v1 scenarios so the single guy has no chance to fight back.

All the other counters to ewar have additional benefits, sensor boosters, cap injectors, tracking computers.

ECCM has no additional benefit and isn't as effective as other counters to other types of ewar.

I dont think 'lock down' means the same as 'can put a damp on them'.

Also, well done for implying ecm is chance based. It is nigh on guaranteed to jam every time.

Confirming fleet warfare is balanced around solo pvp

Take a Megathron, add an ECCM = 41.2 sensor strength

A falcon has a 35.6% chance to jam the megathron for each racial jammer it has fitted.

The Megathron has had to give up 25% of its mids to fit that ECCM.

A falcon can fit 6 jammers no problem.


Also bear in mind not all falcons are used in small gang pvp but also used in the 10v1 scenarios so the single guy has no chance to fight back.

All the other counters to ewar have additional benefits, sensor boosters, cap injectors, tracking computers.

ECCM has no additional benefit and isn't as effective as other counters to other types of ewar.

if someone REALLY wants you, or entire gangs of logi jammed theres really nothing that can be done to stop it atm.

If someone is jamming your entire gang of Logi and you're whining that nothing can be done to stop it, you should probably stop flying in gangs of only Logi ships. Protip: Bring something that can shoot the ECM when your Logis are jammed. Unless Falcons/Blackbirds/Scorpions have recently been given infinite midslots or an AOE grid-wide ECM burst...

More stupid justifications for a broken mechanic.

Yeah right, I'll just disable the scrams and webs that are on me so I can come on over to be insta jammed by your next cycle. It should be easy since I can't lock anything to retaliate. Also not everyone flies in a gang.

So let me reconstruct your situation that brings you here to the forums:

• you flew alone
• in a ship full of tank and mods against every kind of ewar except ECM
• then hostile(s) brought an evil Falcon...

So now lets modify this story a bit

• you fly alone
• in a ship full of tank and mods against every kind of ewar except NEUTS
• then hostile(s) bring an evil Curse...

You might notice the rock, paper, scissors mechanics which you call "broken".

Thats not the case, and a curse is much more easily countered anyway. Perhaps if the curse also broke your lock so you couldn't do much but throw drones at it there would be a problem.

As it is ECM is very much broken. Everyone trying to argue against it is just being a smartarse

As it is ECM is very much broken. Everyone trying to argue against it is just being a smartarse

I am not taking either side on this argument. I think the problem with the falcon is the range at which you can jam out a target at. sitting at 100km jamming our target is hard to counter with pretty much any ship save a select few.

Falcons sitting out that far are not within their optimals so are jamming at less strength, but yes the ones that utilize that extra range are a bit rougher to push out of the fight. However, fully skilled Falcon pilots with a perfect Proteus booster can almost reach that range so the fall-off isn't too bad. But anyone with that much specialization deserves to be able fly their ship.

It would seem overpowered to be able to interfere with the LOCK RANGE or 4+ ships in a single ship right?

Well how about the damn Falcon being able to almost completely remove 4+ ships from a fight whatsoever (notwithstanding smartbombs or drones that already have a target).

I am still amazed that this bullshit is allowed to go on.

ECM is so ubiquitous it's a joke. CCP really should do something about this pathetic 'chance based' (lol) mechanic.

In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP".

All I heard is "I am angry that Caldari Electronic Warfare is better than Gallente" Which would make sense since Caldari are...well the better race for EW. Learn to adapt and deal with EW, bring your own EWar ships. Stop complaining because someone else thought of something you didn't and you ended up paying for it.

Make full use of the ewar capabilities of gallente and its pretty devestating, it just needs a bit of organisation instead of half arsed fleet compositions - combine a prot or eos boosting infowar with the right ships to compliment those boosts and you can resist ecm relatively well and lockdown a lot of stuff.

It does take a fleet the thats made up of pilots who are capable of more than anchoring up, pressing F1 and badly following primaries tho.

Make full use of the ewar capabilities of gallente and its pretty devestating, it just needs a bit of organisation instead of half arsed fleet compositions - combine a prot or eos boosting infowar with the right ships to compliment those boosts and you can resist ecm relatively well and lockdown a lot of stuff.

It does take a fleet the thats made up of pilots who are capable of more than anchoring up, pressing F1 and badly following primaries tho.

does ecm stack?

Yes but then you need a very skill intensive person just to counter 1 ship.

5 years later, ECM mechanics are still untouched. Every man and his dog has a falcon alt, ecm drones are pretty much part of any standard fit, there is even a meme spouted on the thousands of killmails where a good fight was being had, then comes the falcon to plop itself on the bottom of the killmail. BECAUSE OF FALCON!

You can get round it, you can minimize risk from it, but you can't deny it is a fight killer, and an all round remover of fun from the game.

Also not everyone flies in a gang.

It would seem overpowered to be able to interfere with the LOCK RANGE or 4+ ships in a single ship right?

Well how about the damn Falcon being able to almost completely remove 4+ ships from a fight whatsoever (notwithstanding smartbombs or drones that already have a target).

I am still amazed that this bullshit is allowed to go on.

ECM is so ubiquitous it's a joke. CCP really should do something about this pathetic 'chance based' (lol) mechanic.

In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP".

Also, well done for implying ecm is chance based. It is nigh on guaranteed to jam every time.

I feel your pain!

if only eve had modules to counter such ships, like a module which increases your sensor strength or boost your locking range. They could be called sensor booster and maybe ECCM... but i doubt ccp would ever introduce them into the game :(

More ridiculous lies about how powerful ECM is posted by someone more interested in hyperbole than facts.
Do you work for the republicans?

There's ways to deal with ECM, I'm sorry that you're unwilling to use them.

Hint: it's more than just ECCM

ECM is a force multiplyer much teh same as logistics. Take away theese abilities and Eve is reduced EVEN MORE to a numbers game.

A small gang with ECM can fight a lrager force. A small gang with ECM and logistics can fight an even larger force. Send a small gang with neither against a larger force and it dies almost every time unless using such tactics as kiting.

A kiting force will destroy a larger force that can not hit it. Is that overpowered? If the defending force has ecm they can force teh kiting force to leave the field or render tehm inefective, is that overpowered?

In massive fleet fights, both sides often have ECM, taking people out of the combat, is that overpowered?

ECM seems overpowered in specific circumstances, if the enemy force has ECM adn a larger number, you will be overwhelmed fast, is that overpowered? They would probably have killed your force anyway. If teh smaller force had the ECM teh battlfield is levelled. Is that overpowered?


Think about what you are saying and look at it form other angles. If you are just but hurt because someone beat you down using ECM, that isnt a reason for it to be changed, it may be a reason for you to look at your own fleet compositions though.

A falcon with 6 jammers has no tank and can be instapopped almost just by looking at it.

projected ECCM sig amps rigs? and so on?

You misspelled dirty f'ing liberal democrats.

It would seem overpowered to be able to interfere with the LOCK RANGE or 4+ ships in a single ship right?

Well how about the damn Falcon being able to almost completely remove 4+ ships from a fight whatsoever (notwithstanding smartbombs or drones that already have a target).

I am still amazed that this bullshit is allowed to go on.

ECM is so ubiquitous it's a joke. CCP really should do something about this pathetic 'chance based' (lol) mechanic.

In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP".

Why not atleast remove perma-jamming, maybe have it capped at 30secs-1min then there's a 15 second cooldown of sorts before they can continue to stop you playing.

I think that the main reason people think Falcons are OP is how much they matter in small engagements, let's say there's two 5 man gangs facing off, one's a nano gang with 1 Vaga, 1 Cynabal, 2 Canes and a Scimitar The other's a mixed match gang of 4 t1 frigs and a Falcon. Providing the Falcon has the correct ECM and the pilot isn't suffering from a seizure or wife aggro the frig gang would win 9/10.

To only real way to counter the Falcon is with more Falcons or just blob it, which is ********, and doesn't mean that it isn't OP.

OMG, really a "because of falcon" post in 2012? dude your late to the party just go cry in a corner somewhere.

Of course you can play. When you are jammed, you are playing - if you are being jammed it means someone else is NOT being jammed. So take one for the team, it's only 20 seconds jeez. In the meantime you could be, I dunno, burning towards the falcon so the minute the lock breaks you are on top of him and he's in range, perhaps?

I feel your pain!

if only eve had modules to counter such ships, like a module which increases your sensor strength or boost your locking range. They could be called sensor booster and maybe ECCM... but i doubt ccp would ever introduce them into the game :(

You have decided to add in a scenario where there are other people, because it suits a point you are intending to win.
Then you decided I am in a ship that can burn to the falcon, because it suits a point you are intending to win.
And you also decided that I am in a ship faster than a falcon, because it suits a point you are intending to win.

So based on this, you either don't have a prop mod or are flying a MWD battleship solo, based on the fact you can't "burn" and are slower than a falcon.

From this information, I can conclude it's not ECM's fault you're dying, it might be a case of PEBKAC.

That fleet comp should OWN 4 frigs and a falcon becasue if he jams the DPS the scimmy should keep them alive and if he jams the scimmy the one unjammed DPS boat from that list should no problem at all killing frigs. there is no way a competent group of pilots in those ships should lose to four frigates because of one falcon. Also who flies a minny only gang? you are asking for some idiot to bring a jammer boat and **** you off because its easy against single race fleets.

It would seem overpowered to be able to interfere with the LOCK RANGE or 4+ ships in a single ship right?

Well how about the damn Falcon being able to almost completely remove 4+ ships from a fight whatsoever (notwithstanding smartbombs or drones that already have a target).

I am still amazed that this bullshit is allowed to go on.

ECM is so ubiquitous it's a joke. CCP really should do something about this pathetic 'chance based' (lol) mechanic.

In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP".

In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP".

ECM is a force multiplyer much teh same as logistics. Take away theese abilities and Eve is reduced EVEN MORE to a numbers game.

A small gang with ECM can fight a lrager force. A small gang with ECM and logistics can fight an even larger force. Send a small gang with neither against a larger force and it dies almost every time unless using such tactics as kiting.

A kiting force will destroy a larger force that can not hit it. Is that overpowered? If the defending force has ecm they can force teh kiting force to leave the field or render tehm inefective, is that overpowered?

In massive fleet fights, both sides often have ECM, taking people out of the combat, is that overpowered?

ECM seems overpowered in specific circumstances, if the enemy force has ECM adn a larger number, you will be overwhelmed fast, is that overpowered? They would probably have killed your force anyway. If teh smaller force had the ECM teh battlfield is levelled. Is that overpowered?


Think about what you are saying and look at it form other angles. If you are just but hurt because someone beat you down using ECM, that isnt a reason for it to be changed, it may be a reason for you to look at your own fleet compositions though.

You identified 3 force multipliers. Long range fast kiting setups, logistics ships, and guns. In your same post you said gunscounters both of them, AND that large fleets use guns, which means that a smaller fleet with gunswill still lose to a larger fleet with guns (or be forced to flee) regardless of personal skill. I just wanted to point out the flaws in your argument.

Erm...?

If it's so OP, why aren't you using it?

It would seem overpowered to be able to interfere with the LOCK RANGE or 4+ ships in a single ship right?

Well how about the damn Falcon being able to almost completely remove 4+ ships from a fight whatsoever (notwithstanding smartbombs or drones that already have a target).

I am still amazed that this bullshit is allowed to go on.

ECM is so ubiquitous it's a joke. CCP really should do something about this pathetic 'chance based' (lol) mechanic.

In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP".

Standard answer: If it's overpowered, then by the time you've trained it up, it will be nerfed again.

Falcons can be easily overtanked by 1600mm plate, thanks to excessive powergrid they have.

Actually yes, by the example you gave it is overpowered. You identified 3 force multipliers. Long range fast kiting setups, logistics ships, and ECM. In your same post you said ECM counters both of them, AND that large fleets use ECM, which means that a smaller fleet with ECM will still lose to a larger fleet with ECM(or be forced to flee) regardless of personal skill. So yeah, by that definition it is overpowered. I reserve judgement cause I mostly fly solo where ECM isn't too big of a problem, but just wanted to point out the flaws in your argument.

Falcons with 1600mm plates STILL get instapopped by looking it in a meaningful way, by the way.

That's false, practice shows that an overtanked (plated) Falcon can easily miss a jam cycle on Machariel, get pointed and shooted at and yet still get out alive or go on jamming next cycle.

Falcon;

Role Bonus: 80% More Likely to post poorly constructed Strawman arguments on the eveonline.com forums.

Unfunny, poor English and pretentious:;*

-1/10



*Ironic

A fair trade off would be falcons pilots either receiving a dose of herpes from their moms when they do that thing
with their tongue cleaning behind their foreskins or making arazus how they used to be.

FOF Missiles work if you have them skilled and get close enough to the ecm ship so that those missiles engage that ship. Works in Serpentis missions when damped to hell and Guristas missions when perma-jammed.

"empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Be water my friend" -Bruce Lee

Well here's the thing. They may well work in missions. This is not a discussion about PVE.
There are not many PVP ships which can even use F.O.F missiles and be effective at driving off a Falcon/Rook. You need enough damage to get it off the field in about 30 seconds or less, which is still a massive waste of your DPS. What PvP ships ingame are viable to do this.

That's some Unprovoked Aggression right there man. I like the fact that you called me pretentious while leaving an out of context one liner you probably took from a movie critic review headline.

Now let's get back to people who have never PvP'd outside of High Security space telling us to fit Smartbombs on Cruisers to counter Falcons. Only gonna take 12 minutes to kill it!

Sorry, but you're wrong. As soon as you go flashy red to a Falcon, they will warp off, because they can't risk taking much damage. The purpose of a Falcon's tank is to give them time to leave the fight when they get targetted, not to allow them to stay around during the fight.

As I said earlier, drones and FOF counter ECM by making them warp off, which then makes the Falcon as effective as the mothership in your POS 24 jumps away. i.e. If it's not there, it isn't any use.

I really don't know why I am arguing with a collection of alts with 0 kills and 0 losses.

Since when does CVA have anything of relevance to add to the game or discussions about the game?