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LETS TALK CLOAKY

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Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.10 16:51:00 - [1] ok i writing this mabye to give some idea to limit the time a cloak can stay on. The problem is cloaks have become like the holy grail for peeps mostly alts of peeps, what they do is camp systems all day afk, this is stupid and i believe that should be fixed, that a person can perma run a cloak and go afk all day and you cant find them or do anything about it. What im trying to say put a timer on a cloak like 5 min to 10 min depending on skills, im a cloaky pilot myself but i wouldent go camp someone systems all day or afk, at least with a timer a cloaky pilot would have to be at his computer playing or logged off which is if i remember thats the way ccp wants it to be. ok what im sujesting is a cloak time of 5 to 10 min depending on skills and a transions time of 30 sec that way you are never seen having to turn your cloak back on like when jumping threw gates. Also a count down timer would apear when cloak is activated above the capasitor insted of it being on the icon so theres no confusion at how much time you have left
Haephestion	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:10:00 - [2] i like the idea of someone having a chance to catch a cloaky. a 30 second window every 10min is fine because a good cloaker can stay online and easily avoid capture, but if he does go afk, as he being human cant play 23/7, he either has to log or run the risk of someone probing him. Ofc, a bot could probably work as well. at least this gives people a chance. The impact to cloaky scouts for pvp would be manageable. people would just need to make a mandatory safe in any system they plan on spending time in, which they should already be doing. FCs will have an extra step they need to do every 10min.... but that again should be manageable. even a 30min timer seems good to me. its just the whole having absolutely no chance business that is annoying... its been around ever since ive been around, and ive always just moved to another system if there was a cloaky present. but cloakies are becoming more numerous.... to the point where 7 or so cloakies can seriously hamper the isk allocation rate of an entire 500 man alliance. Lets face it ratting in groups under the threat of a cyno isnt particularly appealing, covops cyno or regular. and if you cyno jam the system the covops cyno is still a possibility. i dont see enough solutions the problem currently. you can set traps, yes. but at the same time you are setting the trap youre taking 3+ people's times out of their other plans to catch a guy who might not even show up because hes afk. its just not fun
Magnus Orin Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:12:00 - [3] I have a better idea. How about we make it so that while cloaked, a ship cannot target anything, activate any modules, or even reload their ammunition? Oh wait... Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:15:00 - [4] Must be that time of the month again. --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
Elzon1 Caldari Shadow Boys Corp White Angels.	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:30:00 - [5] Edited by: Elzon1 on 10/02/2011 17:30:54 I believe CCP is going ahead with the "cyno spool-up" idea come incarna so the threat of hotdrops from cloakers should be diminished. Funny thing is that idea was meant to stop excessive supercarrier (as well as other capital ship) hotdrops as well as to slow up logistics in nullsec. As long as CCP nerfs covert cynos as well as the regular ones I see no problem with the idea. I would like to point out that covert cynos are safer than normal cynos and should receive the same treatment otherwise people will just use blackops ships and covert cynos to get around the nerf. But yeah, after the changes this will pretty much be a non-issue Dude #1: Sir, a frigate just uncloaked and is trying to kill my ship Dude #2: You're in a drake... with two target painters... Dude #1: I see your point sir Dude #2: If something worth my time uncloaks tell me... a need a good killmail to end the day So yeah, put up with it for now... CCP is a comin' with the nerfbat coming sometime this summer I don't know where, I don't know when... but something awful is going to happen xD
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:55:00 - [6] Originally by: De'Veldrin Must be that time of the month again. I'll get the absorbent ones this time... that way clean-up will be easier. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:02:00 - [7] The problem here is cloakys not so much black ops drop or cyno tbh. The problem we are faced by afk cloakers in a system is as well as black ops drops and cynos even in a non cyno jammed systems this is a post saying that cloaky need to have some more restrictions its normal for cloaky not to have targeting abilities but that the price for being cloaked. being a cloaky you already have alot of advantages and puting a timer on a cloak is not a bad idea even if they kept black ops still being able to cyno in a system a cloaky timer is needed the problems we face from a afk cloaker or a camper is just obsered as of now the only way is to trap or decloak them and we all know how hard that can be sence we cant probe them until there uncloaked and even moving to a new system to evade them still gives the cloaker the advantage we need to balance the cloaky abilities
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:09:00 - [8] What an original thread.
Tubolard The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:32:00 - [9] You could always move to the next system. There are other options besides ****ing yourself because there is an afk cloaky in system.
Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:37:00 - [10] the issue here is cloakys not the issue that they are inhibiting my ability to do anything in which its not , the issue is being to kill a cloaky afk or camper doesent matter players need more options to chetch a cloaky beside bait and gates.
Alunis Gallente Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:50:00 - [11] Another bad idea. You say it's not that there is a threat of any sort that bothers you but your argument contradicts that. You're annoyed that they are there and you think that you should be permitted to kill them. This is as bad as the cloaky pilots that wanted to be removed from local when they turn on their cloak. So here is an idea. How about we give them what they want. When the cloak is engaged they're removed from local and we'll give you your timer too and the only time you'll see them is as they're entering and leaving the system or they disengage their cloak. This would just force the pilot to logoff which is of no consequence because they'd log back in, cloak up, and you'd still have the same annoying pilot in the system with you and even less of a chance of catching them because you'd barely know they were there. Seriously.. There is enough nerfs going on in the game on various things because of tears in the forums.. How about we support fixing real problems instead of addressing things that aren't broken.
Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.10 19:01:00 - [12] Lol its funny to see the ingorance of some peeps and the way some interpet new ideas as a fail or the trolling of members of eve cuz ur not in support of new ideas eve is built on new ideas take the time to read the thread before you respond before you make a fool of urself. The purpose of this post is for new ideas not your negative ideas and trolls. Dont just say its fail say why the idea is not fesiable and or come up with a new idea
Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.10 19:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Alunis Another bad idea. You say it's not that there is a threat of any sort that bothers you but your argument contradicts that my argruement here is that there should be a way other than bait and gates to chetch a cloaky and if you has read the 2nd post on this subjuct ud see the reasoning
Dhaul Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.02.10 19:13:00 - [14] You want to nerf cloaks so people can just afk in unscannable ships instead?
Ephemeron BeerTia Maniacs	Posted - 2011.02.10 19:23:00 - [15] The solution is always to nerf local. That is more likely to happen than cloak time limits.
othersideof nuu	Posted - 2011.02.10 19:32:00 - [16] I don't know that a cloak should be on a timer of sorts. But I do think there should be a method of scanning down a cloaked ship in system. New Skills, New probes, etc. The chances of successfully scanning down a cloaked ship should be < 50% with full skills and t2/faction probes. Balance this out with another skill for cloaking that can reduce the chances of being found by up to %50 thus bringing it to a %25 chance of being scanned down. I think this would reduce the bots (the ones that sit in system 23/7) forcing a pilot to be at the ready, but still have a chance to slip by. My percentages may favor the searcher more than the cloaker... that can all be worked out. But there does need to be some way of locating a cloaked pilot.
Ephemeron BeerTia Maniacs	Posted - 2011.02.10 19:48:00 - [17] If you hate bots you should support AFK cloaking 100% Right now, a cheap AFK cloaker alt is the best solution to shut down all botting activity in 0.0 system. If we could organize AFK cloaker alts for every 0.0 botting system, we'd shut down their operations completely
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.02.10 20:01:00 - [18] Originally by: De Guantanamo What an original thread. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.10 20:15:00 - [19] i agree with the idea of afk cloakys i just feel there should be a way to get them like in earlier post mabye scanning modules or items mabye a cloaky timer of sorts. Bots are here to stay and even if theres a camper in a system that not always going to stop a bot, bots arent the issue other ways of getting a cloaky are in turn fixing this afk cloaky issue will help with alot of things in that know that the cloaky is there and knowing he cant go afk for to long without being probed or fear of his cloak timer running out which will prevent afk cloakys in a system for long periods of time and keep the player active and alot of afk cloak that spend along time in a system as in speeking of weeks or months usually a good indication they have a few charcters and usually a few bots themselves making isk to cover there loses in some cloaky camper cases which can be billions assuming they havent made enough kills while that are camping to cover there loss. With a little re-adjusting to cloakys that will keep the player at the computer or logged off
Alunis Gallente Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative	Posted - 2011.02.10 21:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Transvenia Lol its funny to see the ingorance of some peeps and the way some interpet new ideas as a fail or the trolling of members of eve cuz ur not in support of new ideas eve is built on new ideas take the time to read the thread before you respond before you make a fool of urself. The purpose of this post is for new ideas not your negative ideas and trolls. Dont just say its fail say why the idea is not fesiable and or come up with a new idea Wait.. you call this ignorance? By not taking the time to search past posts and see for yourself that your idea is far from original demonstrates your ignorance to the topic. Don't turn this into a name calling match. I simply tried to point out that the idea was on the same level as another and neither have any merit whatsoever. You come here with no basis for this change except for the fact that is clear by your original post that you don't like afk cloaky folks in the system with you and you want a way to kill them. You're first of all assuming that they're afk. Secondly nerfing a cloak ship and putting a CD on the cloak is nonsense and as I pointed out is just as lame as the idea that the cloaky folks came up with wanting to have themselves removed from local when the cloak is engaged. If that had happened, today you'd never have known they were in the system. Take the time to research your idea before you post it and you wouldn't see people responding to you in a negative way and trying to point out to you that it's been brought up before time and again and failed to gain any traction because the bulk of the community doesn't agree with the ideas as they have stood. The whole idea centers around the fact that you simply don't want someone to be able to stay cloaked in the system forever. Why shouldn't they be able to? You didn't answer that in any logical way. If I have a cap ship in a system and I'm waiting to jump it out because hostiles have moved in and I have a cloak on it and sitting in a safe spot, why should my safe spot be compromised and my ability to jump that ship out be compromised? The nerf on cloaks would have to apply to more than just ships that were by design made to use a cloaking device. If it was made to use a cloak then why should the design that has been around since cloak ships were introduced all the sudden be changed? That doesn't make any sense at all. So establish a real premise for your idea or stop introducing the same idea over and over. Simple as that.
othersideof nuu	Posted - 2011.02.10 22:11:00 - [21] To be honest, You are correct in that most of us do not want someone to be in our system waiting for the chance to hotdrop super caps in on top of us because we cannot defend our space. On the same note, it has created a game mechanic where one cannot defend against a hotdrop. They now become something that greatly increases the risk to pilots in null/low sec, with very little risk for the squatter and the corp/alliance that are going to drop in. You want a real mechanic, something that should give a cloaking ship away, electronic signature for one, should also have a magnetic signature, as well as a heat signature (you have to be warm in your pod). Those mechanics should exist to root out an afk/squatting cloaker. The topic may not be original, but it is changing the way the game is played, and at a negative impact. You want to sneak in and hotdrop a system... your prerogative, and you should be given enough time to do so.... but you should not be able to sit in a system for 23/7 as a harassment tactic, that puts you on par with the high sec war-dec folks... who war dec for "easy kills". I enjoy a good pvp fight, but it really is not fun when you make it no contest... it changes over to grieving after a certain point.
Solena Rain	Posted - 2011.02.10 22:20:00 - [22] How about this: The amount of time you stay cloaked will determine the amount of time you cannot cloak. Basically it's like a sand timer, the more you fill ONE side the more time you add to your cloak recharge.
Alunis Gallente Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative	Posted - 2011.02.10 22:25:00 - [23] Originally by: othersideof nuu To be honest, You are correct in that most of us do not want someone to be in our system waiting for the chance to hotdrop super caps in on top of us because we cannot defend our space. On the same note, it has created a game mechanic where one cannot defend against a hotdrop. They now become something that greatly increases the risk to pilots in null/low sec, with very little risk for the squatter and the corp/alliance that are going to drop in. You want a real mechanic, something that should give a cloaking ship away, electronic signature for one, should also have a magnetic signature, as well as a heat signature (you have to be warm in your pod). Those mechanics should exist to root out an afk/squatting cloaker. The topic may not be original, but it is changing the way the game is played, and at a negative impact. You want to sneak in and hotdrop a system... your prerogative, and you should be given enough time to do so.... but you should not be able to sit in a system for 23/7 as a harassment tactic, that puts you on par with the high sec war-dec folks... who war dec for "easy kills". I enjoy a good pvp fight, but it really is not fun when you make it no contest... it changes over to grieving after a certain point. First off it's not a "harassment tactic" in any way. It's a spy tactic and a legit mechanic. Secondly, I am fully aware of the issue with hot drops and have had to deal with them from both cloaked and uncloaked ships and sincerely I could care less. Besides, the issue is already being looked at and changes are coming for cloaked ships sooner than later. So let's see what CCP does as the next expansion comes. Third, if you're in sov space and you don't have the means to stop hot drops then you shouldn't be there in the first place. Sorry but in 0.0 there is no law and people shouldn't be penalized just because you don't have the forces to stop a hostile incursion from enemies. There are cyno jammers and such to lock a system down with. You should be able to defend your territory or you should lose it if someone bigger comes along and wants to take it. That's the way things are. You're looking for smaller corps / alliances to have the means to wage a battle on equal terms with larger ones and that's just not how things should work. Those who have worked to build something big enough to wage wars or have the brute force to take what they want is survival of the fittest at it's best and I for one have been on the receiving end plenty of times to simply not care because it's good fun and just a game at the end of the day. I'm here to have fun and if getting blown up is the order of the day then so be it. Seriously I am tired of this whole 'welfare' game mechanics nonsense. Everyone wants to be on the same level as folks that are 2003 characters that are sporting over 100mil SP and yet they continue to fail to see this game for the fine piece of work that it is. I don't want Eve to turn into WoW where welfare epics for everyone is the rule of the game. I want to work and work hard to get things done because it shouldn't be easy. Life isn't easy and those who have fought hard and worked hard deserve to hold those places of power that they do in game. There has been enough balancing.. It's time to fix things that would benefit the players and stop trying to break out the nerf bat every time someone breaks out the tears in the forums.
Frank Shitlitz	Posted - 2011.02.10 22:58:00 - [24] Just curious: What prevents people from bringing in 3 characters (still only 1 account) and cycling through them ever 4-9min? I mean, if they can get one cloaky through your shabby system defenses they can get 2 more in no prob right? Then, right before the cloak timer expires, they logoff one character and log-on another.... I am sure this can be scripted easily so people wouldnt even have to be at thier computers (not that you know who is really AFK or not anyway)
Tuyook	Posted - 2011.02.10 23:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Alunis There has been enough balancing.. It's time to fix things that would benefit the players and stop trying to break out the nerf bat every time someone breaks out the tears in the forums. Here Here. lets dedicate a bit more time on things that really need fixing. LIKE THE GODDAMM FLEET BONUSES. LIKE THE BROKEN MODULE TIMERS. GLITCHED WARP GRAPHICS (cmon ccp, seriously? someone need to brush up on basic geometry?) no we definitely don't need those first...heaven forbid those get fixed after a recent patch that breaks Yet Another Thing That Wasn't Broken Before (TM)
Commander Petrov	Posted - 2011.02.10 23:25:00 - [26] Hahahahaha here's an idea! Let's make a ship called a stealth bomber...and make it so it can't be stealthy at all! Sounds cool right!? Look at today's stealth bombers nub sauce, they're called stealth because so long as they maintain altitude they are invisible. Hmmmmm, sound familiar? As long as I stay the hell away from other people I remain invisible. Quit P.M.S.ing about not being able to find a cloaky and start worrying about training some skills so you can get some real killmails. IT'S A CLOAKY, it's worth 14mil plus maybe another 10 mil. Kill a cruiser and get the same isk value.
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.02.11 00:54:00 - [27] This just keeps on coming up. AFK (or not) cloakies are a part of the game. If you want to rat solo, do missions in Empire. CCP have made a lot of game mechanics to encourage cooperative play, and allowing people to cloak in a system and leave the occupants guessing encourages those people to work together instead of just going about farming NPCs solo. This is a Massively *Multi*player Online game. It's designed to be a cooperative/competitive environment. It's also a sandbox where everything has a counter. Sure you might not be able to shoot the cloaky while they're cloaked, but anything that can fit a cov ops cloak is limited in tank, DPS, or both. Find a way to deal with what others do in this sandbox, and HTFU.
Transvenia	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:17:00 - [28] well as it stands something needs to be done in despite what people think is fair or even if it works or whatever you think should be fixed like lag and other things like some of yall have brought up but this is not about that as i have said and avioding the topic of conversation by not talking about it doesent work with me. Afk cloakys that camp systems for months or have multipule charcters in negibhoring systems cloakys have to much advantages atm with be able to ramain cloak for 23\7 and may or may not be active as you say this game is a mmorpg as in quote from from guy that responded and should be work together well a lone cloaky works alone and still should have a disadvantage for that meaning a cloak timer which can last we will say 5 min if after that 5 min the cloak will have to be reactivated with no penitaly that will keep the afker active and as of this moment there is no price for having a cloaky unless it not a true cloaky ship and the reason this keep comming up in forums is cuz its a problem that need to be adressed and eventually will be, thanks to all the prople who have idea and or postitive responses to this post so far we have 3 ideas: 1 a timer on cloaks with no reactivation penitaly 2 a way to probe them mabye requiring very high skill training or like a lottery 3 u can run a cloak for as long as u want but that it how long before u have can reactivate
Alunis Gallente Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Transvenia [ snip nonsense ] You say they have too much advantage? How is it that they have an advantage? You mean the same advantage that someone has when they infiltrate your corp and work their way up the ranks to take you apart from the inside out? Hiding in plain sight? How is it so hard for you to grasp the basics? The mechanics aren't broken. Your view is. You're simply crying about cloaks being OP and that's all. You're bugged by someone having the ability to sit there and watch you and be a constant reminder that you have to work with other members of your corp and alliance to defend territory and to be prepared for the fights to come. Your statement that cloaky pilots work alone is also inaccurate as the day is long. Cloak pilots can do nothing alone. They can't take your POS down, they can't take your stations over, they can't solo kill your fleet of 200 people.. They can't do anything except assist others or work to gather intel. That is their role and function. Your argument continues to lose steam and the ideas you're attempting to put forth that have come from others are easily discarded in the face of the truth. Cloaks work fine, your logic does not. You've offered no sound reasoning behind your idea and the only thing you have based this off of as has been stated time and again is the fact you simply don't like someone sitting in your local that you can't do anything about. Well guess what.. I sit in Dodixie many a night and I watch scammers spam local with their silly little schemes and there isn't anything I can do about that either. I know it's a scam and so do other people. But CCP doesn't allow me to take the law into my own hands and go out and shoot them free of taking a sec status hit or being killed by CONCORD. I know they're criminals but they're permitted to operate the same as everyone else so my choice is to be armed with knowledge and not get screwed by the scams they toss out. Same thing to be said about cloak pilots. I know they're there. I need to be prepared for what it is they could indicate is coming my way. I need to have the forces to deal with their allies because I'm not worried about some pathetic little cloaked ship in my system. I'm worried about what comes in behind them and how to react to that threat by preparing for it. Your idea is to run away instead of facing the problem. Learn how to combat the tactics or stop playing the game.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:58:00 - [30] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 11/02/2011 05:06:12 Originally by: Transvenia ok i writing this mabye to give some idea to limit the time a cloak can stay on. The problem is cloaks have become like the holy grail for peeps mostly alts of peeps, what they do is camp systems all day afk, this is stupid and i believe that should be fixed, that a person can perma run a cloak and go afk all day and you cant find them or do anything about it. What im trying to say put a timer on a cloak like 5 min to 10 min depending on skills, im a cloaky pilot myself but i wouldent go camp someone systems all day or afk, at least with a timer a cloaky pilot would have to be at his computer playing or logged off which is if i remember thats the way ccp wants it to be. ok what im sujesting is a cloak time of 5 to 10 min depending on skills and a transions time of 30 sec that way you are never seen having to turn your cloak back on like when jumping threw gates. Also a count down timer would apear when cloak is activated above the capasitor insted of it being on the icon so theres no confusion at how much time you have left -1. Give up already. Lets assume your campaign to stop permacloaking was successful. Whats to stop people from: 1. Using ships that cannot be probed out. 2. Using interceptors with perma mwd and speed mods. Both are unable to be countered just as the afk cloaker is unable to be countered. First cannot be probed out, second is long gone before you arrive at where they were when you probed them out. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

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