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Alfred Lim
Order of the Ebon Hand The Jagged Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am a 5 months old player and I have seen many scam going on in Eve online. I have today been scam 300mil isk. To make that money, I had been playing 10 hrs a day for the last 3 weeks. I know many players can make more but as a new player, this is what i can only manage.
I saw a buy order in the market for an item 2,000 units for a minimum order of 2,000unit at 200kisk each. I purchase all the items in the market and when i select sell, the price still indicate 200k isk but when I confirm it, the buy order disappear. For that 1 transaction, I lost 300mil.
Indeed, I was con not only by the player but by CCP, because the player I purchase most item was not even online so the question is how he to cancel the buy order? But since the order disappear, make me believe that it was program to perform such by CCP themselves. I refuse to believe that any player would spent 24/7 and ever second to watch the screen and to cancel the buy order and log out at a 2 second interval. Moreover, the player which I purchase most of the item was not online, so question is how did he cancel his buy order offline? Unless it was programed.
Looking into the entire Eve, there is many scam going on that in any other games you will not see because all this loophole has been covered by the developer.
For example, we all know about PLEX scam that has been going on where you think you buy a Plex cheap in contract but you actually have to give back a plex and loss the 320mil (standard plex con rate). The question, why did CCP allow the same identical item to be allow to post as a Buy/Sell contract? Meaning, you can post that you selling an item in exchange you want the same item back. Not even in real life such system exist. Allowing minimum quantity up to a rediculess amount is another part of program that only CCP allowing it to take place. And many more scam.
Reason of me believing that CCP is the one scamming is that in such players will be force to buy more Plex or renew their account in real money. Why make us believe that we can actually make money mining/trading/manufacturing to buy a Plex where chances you get con at end of the day.
Many of my friends who actually get a Plex was totally into ratting not into to buying and selling ****.
Other than CCP is the real scammer behind all those player name, there is no other reason why CCP allow scam to take place, in the 1st place. They have the objective, the motive and the real benefit behind all those scam.
I though i was 100mil more to go to get a Plex in 2 days before my accounts expire but I was wrong, dead wrong. So no, I will not be able to buy a Plex.
Will I be paying in real money to renew my account? The question I ask myself is why? Why do I want to continue to play a game that instead of enjoying myself I get grief, I get con and scam only to feel unhappy, angry and a complete idiot. Yes I agree (no trolling require) I am a idiot to allow myself to pay real money and feel unhappy about it. This USD$14.95 I could get in a game when I can feel better achievement and pleasure.
For all those real players who are not CCP staff or part of their organization, I don't feel angry at you even if you are a scammer or griefer. It is CCP that I should be angry about. Just like in real life, when you have been rob and the police watch you being rob, instead of helping you, he tell you thats real life mechanic, so get over it. I would be extremely angry at the police more than the robber. For all you know, the robber has already team up with the police in the 1st place. Just like what CCP is telling you that this is game mechanic but they are the one who create this mechanic.
I am positive that CCP will not feel anything losing 1 player as myself nor would Eve stop it's cycle. But this is one of many reasons why it is hard for Eve to get new players. At the end of the day, it handful of people all with multiple alt surrounded by CCP scammer alt that would only exist in the game.
I wish the remaining players or those that would remain in the near future goodbye and thanks for showing me it is not worth playing Eve as long as you would cause it would be idiotic wouldn't it? Hence I have save alot of money and this money will be spent on game that is more worth my attention and where I could gain pleasure instead of any bad emotion.
1 thing thou, if Eve would be a US company, this will not just end here in the forum. Lucky them hey :) |

Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
453
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Never try to fill minimum qty orders. The risk is too high. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |

Implying Implications
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
You are dumb as hell. püåpüÉpüàn+P |

Wolf Kruol
Capsuleer Legions Of New Eden GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
if ccp did this you can try this link,
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Internal_affairs

GÇ£If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?
You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!GÇ¥ |

Generals4
1026
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it.
CCP allows it because EVE is supposed to be a universe where pricks and a-holes feel at home.
If ccp really wanted to scam people they'd make isk disapear not allow people to rip each other off. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |

Garreth Vlox
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
82
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:I am a 5 months old player and I have seen many scam going on in Eve online. I have today been scam 300mil isk. To make that money, I had been playing 10 hrs a day for the last 3 weeks. I know many players can make more but as a new player, this is what i can only manage.
I saw a buy order in the market for an item 2,000 units for a minimum order of 2,000unit at 200kisk each. I purchase all the items in the market and when i select sell, the price still indicate 200k isk but when I confirm it, the buy order disappear. For that 1 transaction, I lost 300mil.
Indeed, I was con not only by the player but by CCP, because the player I purchase most item was not even online so the question is how he to cancel the buy order? But since the order disappear, make me believe that it was program to perform such by CCP themselves. I refuse to believe that any player would spent 24/7 and ever second to watch the screen and to cancel the buy order and log out at a 2 second interval. Moreover, the player which I purchase most of the item was not online, so question is how did he cancel his buy order offline? Unless it was programed.
Looking into the entire Eve, there is many scam going on that in any other games you will not see because all this loophole has been covered by the developer.
For example, we all know about PLEX scam that has been going on where you think you buy a Plex cheap in contract but you actually have to give back a plex and loss the 320mil (standard plex con rate). The question, why did CCP allow the same identical item to be allow to post as a Buy/Sell contract? Meaning, you can post that you selling an item in exchange you want the same item back. Not even in real life such system exist. Allowing minimum quantity up to a rediculess amount is another part of program that only CCP allowing it to take place. And many more scam.
Reason of me believing that CCP is the one scamming is that in such players will be force to buy more Plex or renew their account in real money. Why make us believe that we can actually make money mining/trading/manufacturing to buy a Plex where chances you get con at end of the day.
Many of my friends who actually get a Plex was totally into ratting not into to buying and selling ****.
Other than CCP is the real scammer behind all those player name, there is no other reason why CCP allow scam to take place, in the 1st place. They have the objective, the motive and the real benefit behind all those scam.
I though i was 100mil more to go to get a Plex in 2 days before my accounts expire but I was wrong, dead wrong. So no, I will not be able to buy a Plex.
Will I be paying in real money to renew my account? The question I ask myself is why? Why do I want to continue to play a game that instead of enjoying myself I get grief, I get con and scam only to feel unhappy, angry and a complete idiot. Yes I agree (no trolling require) I am a idiot to allow myself to pay real money and feel unhappy about it. This USD$14.95 I could get in a game when I can feel better achievement and pleasure.
For all those real players who are not CCP staff or part of their organization, I don't feel angry at you even if you are a scammer or griefer. It is CCP that I should be angry about. Just like in real life, when you have been rob and the police watch you being rob, instead of helping you, he tell you thats real life mechanic, so get over it. I would be extremely angry at the police more than the robber. For all you know, the robber has already team up with the police in the 1st place. Just like what CCP is telling you that this is game mechanic but they are the one who create this mechanic.
I am positive that CCP will not feel anything losing 1 player as myself nor would Eve stop it's cycle. But this is one of many reasons why it is hard for Eve to get new players. At the end of the day, it handful of people all with multiple alt surrounded by CCP scammer alt that would only exist in the game.
I wish the remaining players or those that would remain in the near future goodbye and thanks for showing me it is not worth playing Eve as long as you would cause it would be idiotic wouldn't it? Hence I have save alot of money and this money will be spent on game that is more worth my attention and where I could gain pleasure instead of any bad emotion.
1 thing thou, if Eve would be a US company, this will not just end here in the forum. Lucky them hey :)
Here we go again... |

Alfred Lim
Order of the Ebon Hand The Jagged Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it.
CCP allows it because EVE is supposed to be a universe where pricks and a-holes feel at home.
If ccp really wanted to scam people they'd make isk disapear not allow people to rip each other off.
If CCP is not behind this, explain how a buy order was cancel when player not online?
|

Zakuak
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort Get Off My Lawn
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sucks but dude...c'mon it's kinda funny and I think you shuold post more I love your flow.
|

Velicitia
Open Designs
1093
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
5 month old player and he's just learning now about the margin trading scam?
fuuuuu, what do corps do with/for their members these days? I knew the general mechanic by the end of my first month ... and I was still in a noobcorp then... |

El Cid Campeador
Exploding Squirrels
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
If it sounds too good to be true.... it is ;) plus how does it take you so long to make that much isk? im half your "age" and can do it faster... Me thinks you need to leave eve too.... cause CCP is bad n stuff....... Give me your stuff? |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
606
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:I didn't knew the margin trading scam, but now I know it
Your order still is active and trying to sell the stuff for 200K, albeit obviously the buyer scammed you through the margin trading skill: let me guess, you just had bought the 2,000 units for a convenient price above the market average?
Cancel the order and you will only lose the brokers fee.... but good luck trying to sell the 2,000 "convenient" units at the price you paid for them. 
"We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
579
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1645051#post1645051
That should explain it for you. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
606
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:Generals4 wrote:You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it.
CCP allows it because EVE is supposed to be a universe where pricks and a-holes feel at home.
If ccp really wanted to scam people they'd make isk disapear not allow people to rip each other off. If CCP is not behind this, explain how a buy order was cancel when player not online?
The guy who set the order hadn't enough money to fulfill it, so it failed. "We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |

Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
334
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133680&find=unread
there's a thread where people explain it, or you could google it if your tinfoil hat isn't too tight.
|

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10071
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it. This.
Isn't greed a wonderful thing.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
I know exactly what item you're talking about (unless that character is doing it for more than one item). It was DNA that comes from a mission.
Here's a rule in Eve - if it looks too good to be true, it usually is. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
1093
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:Generals4 wrote:You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it.
CCP allows it because EVE is supposed to be a universe where pricks and a-holes feel at home.
If ccp really wanted to scam people they'd make isk disapear not allow people to rip each other off. If CCP is not behind this, explain how a buy order was cancel when player not online?
Margin Trading(Skill) wrote: Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 0 (untrained skill), each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%. For a maximum reduction of approximately 24% total escrow at level 5.
So, they set up a buy order for 2k units (with 2k minimum) at 200k ISK per unit. 2k * 200k = 400m Assuming a Margin Trading skill of 5, that means they put ~100 million in escrow, with the remainder to be covered by their wallet. They emptied their wallet.
So, soon as the order was attempted to be filled by someone (a.k.a. "the mark"), the game tried taking the rest of the ISK from the buyer's (now empty) wallet. Since the order is 100% unable to be completed, the game pops it off the buy order board (IIRC, it fully kills the order, and takes any funds out of escrow to return to the buyer ... though I don't work with margin Trading so much). |

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
394
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:Generals4 wrote:You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it.
CCP allows it because EVE is supposed to be a universe where pricks and a-holes feel at home.
If ccp really wanted to scam people they'd make isk disapear not allow people to rip each other off. If CCP is not behind this, explain how a buy order was cancel when player not online?
The Margin Trading Scam is entirely set up by players.
They set up a sell order with a minimum quanitity with alt 1 and a buy order that is way above the norm for, "coincidently", that number of units using the Margin Trading skill on alt 2 which means that only a portion of their wallet goes into escrow, and then they transfer the rest of the money out of that character and onto alt 1.
Someone, smelling a great deal, buys the items for sale, which deposits the victims money into alt 1's wallet. They try to sell it to alt 2, but alt 2 has 0 isk in their wallet so the buy order cancels, leaving the victim with x number of an item they dont need and less isk, while alt 1 has their money (since that transaction was legitimate) and alt 2 with nothing but a cancelled buy order.
People get fooled by this all the time, but it has nothing to do with any action on CCP's part. Unfortunately the margin trading skill has a legitimate use as well so it's unlikely to change, since it increases the ability of the market to move. |

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
671
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Holy life journal batman. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |

Generals4
1026
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:Generals4 wrote:You sir have fallen for the typical "Trade Margin" scam. And no CCP is not behind it.
CCP allows it because EVE is supposed to be a universe where pricks and a-holes feel at home.
If ccp really wanted to scam people they'd make isk disapear not allow people to rip each other off. If CCP is not behind this, explain how a buy order was cancel when player not online?
The order cancelled automatically because he didn't have enough money in his wallet to pay you. The Trade margin skill allows you keep a certain amount of money in your wallet, if you than send that money to an alt the order simply cannot be fulfilled.
And also, when in a trade hub: any trade that looks too good be true is most likely a scam. No one will sell you an item that has a legitimate buy order at a much higher price.
I have scammed people for billions with that one back when no one used it. People used to fall for it so easily. Nowadays it has lost its originality. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |

Alfred Lim
Order of the Ebon Hand The Jagged Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Unfortunately, this Margin Scam is that scammer use the margin skills and other mechanics to scam us our isk. But all this mechanics has no real benefits to players other than player who intend to scam. So why the mechanics the 1st place? So that CCP could scam us without us pushing the blame to them and all to those players (who no1 is sure who it is? Could be CCP themselves) . Because if any real buyer, why would he place a buy order when he doesn't have the amount of money to pay in the 1st place, unless he has no intention of fulfilling the buy order. Thus the mechanic is for the sole purpose of scamming. |

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
480
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Google "margin trading scam EVE online" and you'll find out how he did it.
Its a pretty easy scam, both to pull and avoid. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á |

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
671
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:Unfortunately, this Margin Scam is that scammer use the margin skills and other mechanics to scam us our isk. But all this mechanics has no real benefits to players other than player who intend to scam. So why the mechanics the 1st place? So that CCP could scam us without us pushing the blame to them and all to those players (who no1 is sure who it is? Could be CCP themselves) . Because if any real buyer, why would he place a buy order when he doesn't have the amount of money to pay in the 1st place, unless he has no intention of fulfilling the buy order. Thus the mechanic is for the sole purpose of scamming.
You just had a half dozen people explain the scam to you and you still insist that CCP is involved. You sir, deserved what you got. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |

Alfred Lim
Order of the Ebon Hand The Jagged Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
As I have stated, unless someone can explain to me how the order was cancel when the player is not online, then I would believe that CCP is not involve. And if it is due to margin, then again, the mechanics was was the sole purpose of scamming. How then CCP is not involve cos they create the mechanic in the 1st place. |

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
671
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1645051#post1645051
That should explain it for you.
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |

Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:
1 thing thou, if Eve would be a US company, this will not just end here in the forum. Lucky them hey :)
This is best part .
Hmm maybe you could write to Obama to nuke Iceland. I think there is proper reason "making US people look dumb" . |

Mallak Azaria
574
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alfred Lim wrote:As I have stated, unless someone can explain to me how the order was cancel when the player is not online, then I would believe that CCP is not involve. And if it is due to margin, then again, the mechanics was was the sole purpose of scamming. How then CCP is not involve cos they create the mechanic in the 1st place.
Several players have already. I'm sorry, but it's neither CCP's fault nor ours that you're stupid.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |

Alfred Lim
Order of the Ebon Hand The Jagged Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
You don't seems to understand I think. Yes I do know now that this is a Margin Scam, but the Margin scam uses the help of the Margin Skill to perform such scam. However, no true buyer would bother training that skill unless they want to false a buy order. Thus the Margin Skills should be know as Scam Skill instead. My point is that when CCP introduce this skill, they promote or assist scammer a new line of scamming. So they are responsible just like how I explain the robber and the police story, unless you didn't care to read it and just busy posting your insults. |

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
667
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ana Fox wrote:Alfred Lim wrote:
1 thing thou, if Eve would be a US company, this will not just end here in the forum. Lucky them hey :)
This is best part . Hmm maybe you could write to Obama to nuke Iceland. I think there is proper reason "making US people look dumb" .
I don't want to live in this country anymore :( |

Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1698
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Unrelated to OP: Threads like these pop up really regularly. How about we just start linking to the last thread instead of starting multiple-page-threads over and over and over again, just because these idiots can't get their heads around the fact that they have no ground to complain on ?
Related:
1) Nobody cares about you. 1a) You complain about stuff in the funny belief that it will create a positive outcome, in what way ever. 1b) You seriously believe you're actually "getting back" with this, ignoring that ... 1c) ... people smarter than you read your words and make fun of you, because you behave like an idiot.
2) Nobody would care about your issue if CCP was based in the US. 2a) If CCP was from the US, this game would have died long ago because it would reach out for idiots like you. 2c) If you're from the US, your friends will totally acknowledge how bad we EvE-Players and CCP are, while at the same time laugh their asses off about you when you don't notice. 2c.1) Being from the US is a bad excuse for not *thinking before doing*.
3) The amount of words you've needed to express your feelings show that you're pretty butthurt about it. 3a) see 1a 3b) see 1b+1c
4) Every idiot uses the "new players argument". 4a) None of these idiots ever shown proof that he knows what new players want.
... which connects to ...
5) People buy things that get advertised. 5a) EvE gets advertised as a bad place. Dark. Unforgiven. People laugh at you. People kill you. People rob you. 5a.1) Independent of what people *want* to believe, this actually works ... obviously. 5b) Whatever *you* believe new players want is just your stupid opinion because facts (the advertising) proves you wrong.
6) It's all your fault. I know you don't get raised that way, but it's indeed all your fault. Deal with it.
Never posted this way before. I'm sure i missed things out.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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