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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 01:39:00 -
[1]
Today, during our successful shield fleet takedown of a Sansha Nation Mom in Amarr High sec, it came to my attention that CCP has not addressed what is apparently a very common and obviously broken Incursion experience: the MOM LOOT NINJA.
I am aware, that like normal high sec ops, people are capable of stealing and getting flagged. However, in the 80+ man environment of a MOM battle (with said MOM constantly dropping from overview), it is impossible to prevent an assault ship from stealing 100M in a second.
Player "Itc" today took our TS PDS and a BP for a Phantasm. How are we supposed to stop him? I could see scramming him in Low sec, or putting a bubble up in high sec, but tell me how High sec pilots are supposed to prevent people from taking the loot they worked all day to make. I'm just looking for a solution to what is obviously a design problem from CCP as I see it. How do you prevent someone from ninja-ing the main loot from high sec Moms? It's bad enough we get lower payouts, no Mom ship drops, and restricted Incursion opportunities due to sec. status(which we can grind, I understand, but my point being O.O doesn't have the problem), but this is simply wrong to have to deal with. Any 1 day old character could ninja this stuff, consequence free.
Awaiting your reply,
wtf
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Fel Wrath
Amarr
EdgeGamers
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Posted - 2011.02.23 01:47:00 -
[2]
+1
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Lilith Devilyn
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Posted - 2011.02.23 01:48:00 -
[3]
/agreed
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:09:00 -
[4]
Working as intended.
Also, don't cross post.
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DeathStar Cookie
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:15:00 -
[5]
CCP fixed this already. All you have to do is target hims, scram him, and blow him up.
Also if your having this problem, go to lowsec, your in an eighty man fleet for gods sake, your not gonna get pirated, and if you do itll be an awesome fleet fight of win.
Rememeber kiddies this is not wow with handouts. If you want to carebear in highsec, you gotta deal with all the joys of it.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:16:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 02:16:16
They could just take the loot away. Or may the payout divided by the number of pilots correspondingly higher.
Got more than a drivel clichTd statement, or do you actually think productively about how to improve the game? Also, I'll cross post if the post reaches different target audiences. Thanks for reading, though.
wtf
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:19:00 -
[7]
So you're saying we can make a 5km area around the mom, where noone is allowed. Then, if someone goes in there, the game will know they aren't supposed to be there, and we can scram and not get Concorded? At what point do you suggest scramming him?
I only see being able to scram after he has the loot and is warping. Tell me how they fixed it. Links to CCP change log would be nice too, even though I trust you. |
XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:21:00 -
[8]
If you actually read anything about Incursions you'd know that the final loot is supposed to be up for grabs. You are guaranteed isk for sites + LP after the Mom is killed. The loot from the Mom is just like any other loot.
This isn't WoW or some other MMO. Loot is yours yes, but you still have to retrieve it. The mechanics are there for you to get the loot back. Don't come crying on the forums cause some guy stole your loot. Do something about it in game. |
Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 02:27:21
How are you supposed to target every person capable of stealing your loot? In a carebear lvl 4 this is easy enough. Once you see someone getting close to your stuff, you can target and scram if they flag. In the ENVIRONMENT, it is impossible to scram someone without getting Concorded because but the time they flag they are gone. I say make people who flag around wrecks not able to warp for 1 minute. Smacktalk or something similar, except for stealing stuff that is clearly not yours.
And nobody likes a condescending prick. I know this isn't WOW, but it's obviously broken, and it apparently happens all the time. If it happened in 0.0 you would be all whiny too. We all pay the same amount to enjoy the game, so why even have loot drop off the Mom? |
XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:29:00 -
[10]
Sounds like you should just go to low sec or accept that your loot is not safe in high sec until its in your cargo.
CCP is not going to change loot mechanics because of this
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 02:41:36
Well we're going to have to disagree then, because the game has changed (with the introduction of high density missions with 80+ on grid in high sec), so the loot mechanics might in fact need to change. There's no way to prevent someone from ganking it like there is in a regular lvl 4. So unless you live in high sec, and run Incursions like we do, I don't really see your stake in the matter.
Let's hear from people who actually run Incursion in high sec?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:43:00 -
[12]
You like making assumptions I take it?
I've participated in a few low sec incursions and a few high sec incursions. Haven't had a problem with ninjas yet. And if we did, I wouldn't come to the forums to cry about it.
Are you really telling me your 80 man fleet couldn't stop a ninja?
And like I said before, you already get the LP/isk. The loot is a bonus.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 02:51:55
It was our 60 man fleet plus some other 60 man armor fleet (apologies) so 120 total on grid, and no none of us could stop him (lag too). If it was a shuttle, ok smartbomb the Mom, but if it's a bit bigger, but insanely fast, then gg. And if it's "just a bonus" why even offer it?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:58:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
It was a 60 man fleet plus another 60 man armor fleet (apologies) so 120 total, and no none of us could stop him. If it was a shuttle, ok smartbomb the Mom, but if it's a bit bigger, but insanely fast, then gg. And if it's "just a bonus" why even offer it?
Have remote sensor boosted ceptors on standby to kill people like this?
Adapt.
Would you prefer CCP remove the bonus then? Seriously, the isk/LP you get from Incursions is more than enough. Not to mention the fact that it was a phantasm BPC and TS PDS? You do realize thats a total of about 120 million isk right?
You are complaining about 1mil isk/person.
Think about that for a second.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:02:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 03:04:05
I understand it was a loss of 2 mil per player in my fleet (the armor fleet wasn't with us), but that's not the point. The money is inconsequential. The point is a principle. I agree it should be possible for people to steal in high sec. It should also be possible to stop them. What I am saying is the latter is not possible, due to the amount of time it takes to steal, versus identifying, scramming, and asploding. And if you're wrong, you get Concorded. There's no way to see who is stealing until they warp. Pretty broken to me.
Wait, I know! Let's just cover all the exit gates with interceptors and hope we can get them on the other side. Oh wait. They can just warp to a safe spot until they flag off. See what I mean?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
It should also be possible to stop them.
It is.
Quote:
What I am saying is the latter is not possible, due to the amount of time it takes to steal, versus identifying, scramming, and asploding.
Configure your overview properly. Have ceptors on standby ready to tackle thieves. Think outside the box for a solution instead of whining to CCP
Quote:
And if you're wrong, you get Concorded. Pretty broken to me.
Its not broken. This is Eve. This is how things work.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 03:13:27
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 03:10:45
You know what, you can come to our next Incursion. We'll hold 100M of your isk in escrow, and you can be Fleet Captain of the Anti-ninja-looting fleet. Do whatever strat you think works. If you prevent the ninja, you get your monies back. If not, well...that's eve huh. If not, don't post inane "solutions" b/c they're not especially useful.
Would be nice to put isk where your mouth is...because it's not like we haven't thought of "cutting edge" strats too man.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 03:10:45
You know what, you can come to our next Incursion. We'll hold 100M of your isk in escrow, and you can be Fleet Captain of the Anti-ninja-looting fleet. Do whatever strat you think works. If you prevent the ninja, you get your monies back. If not, well...that's eve huh.
Would be nice to put isk where your mouth is. If not, don't post inane "solutions."
Whats inane about those solutions? Too complicated for you? Interceptor would have tackled that AF just fine.
And I thought the isk didn't matter?
Also its only 2 mil of mine apparently since its a 60 man fleet 
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:15:00 -
[19]
It doesn't, I'm just thinking of a way to make sure you take a risk as well. hell I'll even give you 100M more if you stop him. It really isn't about the money. Like I said, I'm willing to bet 100M you can't stop them. You should be willing to at least come out to try.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:18:00 -
[20]
i just don't see an inteceptor 1) surviving in the fight 2) being able to pick out the thief out of 120+ people. That's my position.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:21:00 -
[21]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 23/02/2011 03:23:39
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 23/02/2011 03:22:06
Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
It doesn't, I'm just thinking of a way to make sure you take a risk as well. hell I'll even give you 100M more if you stop him. It really isn't about the money. Like I said, I'm willing to bet 100M you can't stop them. You should be willing to at least come out to try.
Risk as well? What are you risking? The loss of 2 mil? 
Anyway, message me when the next high sec incursion is coming to a close and I'll see if I can come by. Somehow I doubt most of the people in your fleet can even fly/fit ceptors or know how to configure their overview properly 
Edit: Have Ceptors a couple hundred km out of range. When the mom is close to die, burn in. They should be low on target priority and shouldn't have to deal with much.
One question. Is the thief from your fleet? Cause if so, you have an entirely different problem: your fleet is not a fleet, but a ragtag bunch of individuals looking out for themselves.
If he is not from your fleet, you can easily configure your overview to not show fleet members and thus be able to pick out the thief rather quickly.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:23:00 -
[22]
We'll figure something out for payments, but I'll let you know the next High sec Incursion we run. Shield fleet, just fyi.
wtf
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Phattecia
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:29:00 -
[23]
Greetings Pilots and Devs,
My name is Phatt. As "one of" the main shield fleet FC's, I see this as a very serious problem. Incursions are the hot new item that CCP has presented to the capsuleer population. While the chaotic nature of Eve reflects the real word, the fact that so many people can be robbed of what is to be the main "reward" of a group effort does seem to be a bit overbroad. Especially when said effort is sanctioned by what is supposed to be the police (Concord). Possible solutions of this problem inculde: locking the wreck to where only certain fleet members may access, transporting the loot to the nearest station (namely the FC's hanger hehe), or , as stated by the O.P., just removed the high sec drop totally. These are only a few of the possible options. As this is a important issue, i would advise CCP either respond to this, and explain why, or inform us that it is being looked into. I'm also fairly certain i can get approx. 300 petition's on this at the drop of a hat. No threats my dear devs, just a statement of facts, and a way to show you that players have determinded this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Best regards,
Phatt
P.S. Thank you for a wonderful game. 07
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:30:00 -
[24]
To answer your question...there's no real way of knowing. Might be. Might not be. However, it is HIGHLY unlikely that a thief in our fleet would ever ninja loot (the last time it was Itc, as mentioned, who was not in our fleet), because the immediate consequence of ninja looting is never getting an invite from our group ever again. With that said, I don't think people you grind with and know from days and days of Incursions are going to risk ninja-looting in-fleet, so it's almost always a rogue element.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
To answer your question...there's no real way of knowing. Might be. Might not be. However, it is HIGHLY unlikely that a thief in our fleet would ever ninja loot (the last time it was Itc, as mentioned, who was not in our fleet), because the immediate consequence of ninja looting is never getting an invite from our group ever again. With that said, I don't think people you grind with and know from days and days of Incursions are going to risk ninja-looting in-fleet, so it's almost always a rogue element.
Then as I stated, you should be able to setup your overview such that you won't have to pick through 120 people to find the thief.
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Wtf Pwnage
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:49:00 -
[26]
Best idea I've heard so far. Come on out and join us. Let's see it in action!
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Jeb Vacano
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:58:00 -
[27]
Speaking as a ninja looter myself, yes it's too easy. I can grab the loot as i enter warp, and my Prophecy is specially fit for this kind of thing, so you need to be able to get several points on me within 1 second, or failing that deal 140k dmg in the that same time. Good luck. If you try to pick me off before i get the loot concord will mop the floor with you. And here's the kicker after they do, i will still get the loot, and i will loot and salvage your wrecks too.
P.S. Your snide comments about wow are just stupid. I ninja loot there too. 
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Frank Shitlitz
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Posted - 2011.02.23 04:04:00 -
[28]
Seeing as how the option to remove the drop all together is on the table indicates that the OP and his fleet do not care about the lewt per se. They only care that something that they thought was thiers was taken from them. Easy solution then: Fast locking ship--> shoot wreck before it can be looted. Everything will be destroyed, but its no different from removing the drop completely (for the "winning" fleet). It also gives fleets the option to lewt if circumstances are convenient.
The best part is CCP doesnt need to change a thing!
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De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2011.02.23 04:08:00 -
[29]
Easy fix:
Make Concord ineffective in Incursion constellations.
Enjoy the carnage.
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Frank Shitlitz
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Posted - 2011.02.23 04:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: De Guantanamo
Easy fix:
Make Concord ineffective in Incursion constellations.
Enjoy the carnage.
This is totally smexy.
+1
+1
+1
Also: No sec hits.
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