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Rita May
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.09.02 10:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:*snip* .... If you were in a race, you'd be losing.
As much as I agree on most of the points why there are some "flaws" in the way OP uses math, but: This is, lucky me, still a GAME which I PLAY for MY amusement. If you need to establish a virtual contest to have fun in a game - your call, i don't need it.
cu
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serras bang
Lucien Coven
11
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Posted - 2012.09.02 13:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:I was doing some basic timing using a stopwatch, and discovered that I spent about 10 minutes per hour of mining, actively doing something in the game. This would be stuff like locking an asteroid, moving cargo, warping, etc.
The other 50 mins was spent semi-afk doing homework on a second monitor.
I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.
So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.
Pretty neat, eh? Can mission runners boast the same thing?
im afraid your figures are a bit wrong mate i aint maxxed skill but decided to take me ret out for some good old mining with 2 mining upgrades witch i can fit now and now rigs (ok maybe my failing) over the hour i only made about 13 - 16 mill less that i would make before the changes even though the changes improved me ret and i was mining what i would normaly min pyro only. |
Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Next time use far less stupid examples when trying to make a point and just get right to the point. You "actively" wasted far to much of my time.
My original post is only 7 lines long. I will post a warning for dyslexics next time. |
Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:33:00 -
[64] - Quote
Marcus McTavish wrote: You can not skip those 50 minutes in between! Not unless you have a Time Machine, which going by your train of thought, we can dismiss.
I never said you can skip 50 minutes.
10 minutes = time spent actively playing 50 minutes = semi-AFK
For every 10 minutes actively playing = 10 million isk |
celebro
Perpetuum Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.09.02 15:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Marcus McTavish wrote: You can not skip those 50 minutes in between! Not unless you have a Time Machine, which going by your train of thought, we can dismiss.
I never said you can skip 50 minutes. 10 minutes = time spent actively playing 50 minutes = semi-AFK For every 10 minutes actively playing = 10 million isk
If only CCP charged for 'time spent actively playing' |
Matarella
The Last Call. Black Core Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.09.02 15:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Marcus McTavish wrote: You can not skip those 50 minutes in between! Not unless you have a Time Machine, which going by your train of thought, we can dismiss.
I never said you can skip 50 minutes. 10 minutes = time spent actively playing 50 minutes = semi-AFK For every 10 minutes actively playing = 10 million isk
Thats means my hourly income ratting is 80-90 mil isk |
Marcus McTavish
EnC Heavy Industries Rolling Thunder.
43
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Posted - 2012.09.03 01:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Marcus McTavish wrote: You can not skip those 50 minutes in between! Not unless you have a Time Machine, which going by your train of thought, we can dismiss.
I never said you can skip 50 minutes. 10 minutes = time spent actively playing 50 minutes = semi-AFK For every 10 minutes actively playing = 10 million isk
This is your title: The reality - miners make 60+m isk per hour of gameplay
Umm... How about ..... you are really not listening.
Congratz you discovered the only sane way to mine, AFK. You are not a genius. You only make 10 million per hour.
You could be active 5 seconds per hour, its still 10 million per hour.
I DONT GET HOW YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS.
You are saying, meh i was not active, so it does not count. 1. See all my posts in this thread. 2. Disagree, goto 1, until you get it
Congtaz, you made 10 million from the 10 minutes of active play and 50 minutes of inactive play.
I dont know how else to put it.
You are just taking the 50 minutes out of the time factor. I wish killboards worked like this, we would all be high 90's
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Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
21
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Posted - 2012.09.03 14:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
Yield per unit of effort.
lol. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
123
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Posted - 2012.09.04 15:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:I was doing some basic timing using a stopwatch, and discovered that I spent about 10 minutes per hour of mining, actively doing something in the game. This would be stuff like locking an asteroid, moving cargo, warping, etc.
The other 50 mins was spent semi-afk doing homework on a second monitor.
I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.
So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.
Pretty neat, eh? Can mission runners boast the same thing?
Kinda pathetic compared to what an afk rattler or domi can do afk if you want to count it the same way (50 mil an hour plus with possibly less time actually atk depending on mission).
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qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
39
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
I had to work 4 hours of overtime here last sunday.
I get 100% overtime bonus then, so, that is the same as 8 hours of normal work, in $$$ that is, SO,
Hour rate $40 x 4 hours X 2 / 35 USD / ETC .. = 9 ETC = about... 9 billion isk.. - taxes. Now, tax is 49.2% on overtime, so, I got about 1 billion isk an hour... NOT mining.
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Elsbeth Taron
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
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Posted - 2012.11.13 07:53:00 -
[71] - Quote
Please lock this thread so these losers can crawl back into their dark tunnels. All these attempts to appear intellectual have become laughable. |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2012.11.13 07:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:Please lock this thread so these losers can crawl back into their dark tunnels. All these attempts to appear intellectual have become laughable.
And rezzing a 2 month old thread prove you are just as stupid... |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.11.13 09:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
It's really nice to try to justify your mining career like that... but at the end of the day (or month) you're still poor. Lord Zim: I do the following in hisec, because it's less effort vs reward than doing the same in nullsec: - Ratting
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Herr Hammer Draken
157
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Posted - 2012.11.13 12:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
I think I fianally figured out why this always becomes such an issue. The miners income I mean. Because their income is dynamic generated according to inflation in the game.
Mission running is fixed and set by the devs.
Industry income is again dynamic and generated by the current economy.
However players in eve are free to switch between careers. And that should become a stabilizing force in eve. As the saying goes the cure for high prices are the high prices.
Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Kaivar Lancer
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
232
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Posted - 2012.11.13 15:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
<----- Carebear no more! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
975
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Posted - 2012.11.13 17:31:00 -
[76] - Quote
TheSkeptic wrote:It's really nice to try to justify your mining career like that... but at the end of the day (or month) you're still poor.
Yup. I'm exactly at 4 Billion ISK poor atm. Mining, PI, and Fuel Blocks.
GD is still apparently chock-full of rude Trolls. |
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
11
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
1M isk/minute while at the keyboard is pretty reasonable. That is about what I make piloting a tanked orca between trade hubs and checking for region pricing discrepancies. And, I find the fun of that much more of an incentive to login and play eve than mining. So I'm fine with miners making that given how boring the work actually is.
If there is any concern, it is for those miners that are primarily AFK (primarily macks) and bots. Only way to resolve that would be to decrease tank of mack (unlikely act by CCP), but then those that are AFK will eventually lose a ship anyway.... |
Celestis Kudzu
NeX Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.11.13 20:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:I was doing some basic timing using a stopwatch, and discovered that I spent about 10 minutes per hour of mining, actively doing something in the game. This would be stuff like locking an asteroid, moving cargo, warping, etc.
The other 50 mins was spent semi-afk doing homework on a second monitor.
I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.
So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.
Pretty neat, eh? Can mission runners boast the same thing?
week ago i spend 15s setting sell order, i make 26m... so i can make about 6,2b per hour, who care about miners
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1132
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:45:00 -
[79] - Quote
This site has in the upper right corner something called "Mining timer". You set it to one second or so longer than your mining cycle and start it up. It rings every time cycle, reminding you to look at the screen to restart the lasers on the next rock.
The entire "10 mil/hr clock time, 60 mil/hr of keyboard time" rests on the assumption you got a task you can do at the same time you are on eve, and that task can be interrupted every 3 minutes without becoming rubbish. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
564
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Posted - 2012.11.16 16:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
#1%?
All that isk...imagine paying grief fleets to gank bumpers with some of that isk
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
628
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Posted - 2012.11.17 17:54:00 -
[81] - Quote
It is unfortunate that the topic devolved as this is a important thing for EVE to both understand, debate, and deal with as a long term issue for EVE. This is the most important ratio in the economy.
EFFORT:ISK Risk is simply more EFFORT
The original poster might have approached the post in the wrong way, but the message is what matters. He is indeed correct that mining has recently experienced a buff like no other to passive wealth generation. I would not make the argument at all about ISK:HR, as the recent patches have hilariously skewed EFFORT:ISK ratio to mining now. Mining may not be the most ISK:HR profession, but it sure is great EFFORT:ISK.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3885
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Posted - 2012.11.17 18:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Aryth wrote:It is unfortunate that the topic devolved as this is a important thing for EVE to both understand, debate, and deal with as a long term issue for EVE. This is the most important ratio in the economy.
EFFORT:ISK Risk is simply more EFFORT
The original poster might have approached the post in the wrong way, but the message is what matters. He is indeed correct that mining has recently experienced a buff like no other to passive wealth generation. I would not make the argument at all about ISK:HR, as the recent patches have hilariously skewed EFFORT:ISK ratio to mining now. Mining may not be the most ISK:HR profession, but it sure is great EFFORT:ISK.
Yeah, this is basically correct. Especially when effort doesn't need to be put into a single client: it is much more cost-effective to afk mine a dozen empire macks than a 0.0 hulk or two, which require about equal amounts of effort. Any effort increase is best spent multiboxing yet another empire mack. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
628
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Posted - 2012.11.17 18:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Aryth wrote:It is unfortunate that the topic devolved as this is a important thing for EVE to both understand, debate, and deal with as a long term issue for EVE. This is the most important ratio in the economy.
EFFORT:ISK Risk is simply more EFFORT
The original poster might have approached the post in the wrong way, but the message is what matters. He is indeed correct that mining has recently experienced a buff like no other to passive wealth generation. I would not make the argument at all about ISK:HR, as the recent patches have hilariously skewed EFFORT:ISK ratio to mining now. Mining may not be the most ISK:HR profession, but it sure is great EFFORT:ISK.
Yeah, this is basically correct. Especially when effort doesn't need to be put into a single client: it is much more cost-effective to afk mine a dozen empire macks than a 0.0 hulk or two, which require about equal amounts of effort. Any effort increase is best spent multiboxing yet another empire mack.
I often wonder if CCP ever plays to do anything about boxer users, or if the subs are so delicious they will not. The rise of mass multiboxing has interesting implications for EVE long term. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Devil's Call
Omega Legion XIII
805
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Posted - 2012.11.22 00:16:00 -
[84] - Quote
I once earned 30bilion isk in the matter of a few seconds. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1304
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:30:00 -
[85] - Quote
For the people asking how can the OP transform the claimed 10 minutes of active time spent mining per hour into 60 minutes per hour to get that x6 ISK multiplier, there's a simple way to do it (not that the OP actually does it, but it can be done) : run 6+ accounts at the same time. Due to economies of scale (you can tack in an Orca with leadership skills and a dedicated hauler, running 8+ accounts simultaneously) he could actually pull much more than just x6 ISK, possibly even x10 ISK, without bothering to change location a lot. If he actually bothers to change location (like, say, moving into a deep blue secure area and running with the big boys), he could scale that up even higher (now we're talking Rorqual booster and an area with plenty of more valuable ore), so he could even arguably pull in something like over 200m per hour of activity easily, possibly even closer or even over 300m per hour with a more streamlined operation of even more mining accounts and better synchronized hauling.
On the other hand, you can also run semi-AFK mission droneboats and pull even better figures on even more accounts, since there's only a few missions that require serious care of the drones (and you can afford to just avoid them). You can also do it more "meh"-ishly with FoF-loaded missileboats, since there's no risk to the drones, but those might be a tad slower even if you know where to position yourself and how to set orbits for maximum AFK efficiency, and also need a button press every now and then after the launchers get auto-reloaded. Heck, if you're a serious multiboxing mission-runner with some decent ships (not loot pinatas, just decent fits and good skills, plus good knowledge of best mission practices), you can probably pull over 100mil per hour the "honest" at-keyboard way easily with just two good skilled shooters and a less high SP looter, maybe higher with three shooters that work as part-time looters if you can handle it.
On the gripping hand, you can pull off even higher numbers overall if you have a wide-spread industrial empire (you don't even need to source your own minerals nor sell the product yourself, just have the proper "contracts" that include delivery and pick-up clauses, or pay somebody else a small fee to handle it for you), BUT that requires some phenomenal amount of initial investment, and also some good connections (for the contracts, so you don't have to bother with the logistics so much).
And then, there's of course trading. Either the typical style, or the speculative style, whatever your poison might be. Some styles benefit from extra characters, others do not. Some synergize with an industrialist career path, some do not.
There's plenty of ways to make some serious ISK while not actually AT the controls, IF you know what you're doing AND if you can be bothered to keep it up. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
David Zahavi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.11.22 04:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mining? No.
Missions? No.
Incursions? Yes
Faction Warfare? Yes
Ratting in Null Sec? Yes
Playing the AH? Yes
Invention? Yes
Odd... you picked the most boring of them all and assumed it was the best, and are bragging. Not that CCP really offers much in the way of compelling PVE gameplay, but I personally find mining to be the most tedious.
However for only 10 min every once in a while, of mostly afk, maybe I could be persuaded to do it. In the form of gas. For my drugs. That I make in null.
At times it can certainly beat the tedium of gate jumping > jump freighter crap out of High sec.
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David Zahavi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.11.22 04:44:00 -
[87] - Quote
Aryth wrote:It is unfortunate that the topic devolved as this is a important thing for EVE to both understand, debate, and deal with as a long term issue for EVE. This is the most important ratio in the economy.
EFFORT:ISK Risk is simply more EFFORT
The original poster might have approached the post in the wrong way, but the message is what matters. He is indeed correct that mining has recently experienced a buff like no other to passive wealth generation. I would not make the argument at all about ISK:HR, as the recent patches have hilariously skewed EFFORT:ISK ratio to mining now. Mining may not be the most ISK:HR profession, but it sure is great EFFORT:ISK.
Um. Everything needs minerals. And mining is one of the only forms of wealth generation in the game that doesnt just create ISK from the concord overlords, who seem to be built with the magical ability to print isk out of nowhere.
Mining for that reason should be something that creates money that you get from other players. After all, you are only able to sell the minerals for the price the market dictates.
THEREFORE: Industry (science, mining, all that trash) has always been theeve profession that best scales with inflation, since all profits to be made from mining come from the free market system within eve, and are always subjective to outside forces, price manipulation attempts, scarcity, etc.
There is actually market warfare risk to miners. Today they could make 100m an hour, next year 50 mil an hour... for the same work done in the same way.
Someone who runs incursions is making 9-10 mil per site, no matter how inflated the economy is. And as the economy inflates, he's actually doing worse every time, compared to how well he did before the inflation. |
Ishkaru
Amarrian Vengeance
0
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Posted - 2012.11.22 10:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
Just wait till OP finds out about ice mining... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
994
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:52:00 -
[89] - Quote
IMHO, anything more than '2 Hulks and an Orca' operated by an individual is overdoing it. |
Hiroshi Yakasuki
Stealth Sector The Revenant Order
14
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Posted - 2012.11.23 00:05:00 -
[90] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:IMHO, anything more than '2 Hulks and an Orca' operated by an individual is overdoing it. My secrets! They are out! |
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