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LvL 4 Mach fit vrs. Angels fitting advice so I don't screw up the rigs

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Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 02/03/2011 23:29:20 So, after years running missions in Caldari and Amarr space vrs. mostly those evil Sanshas. I've been called to assist in ridding EvE of all the Angels, and just looking for a change of pace. Found a decent Amarr faction corp. located in Metropolis admin division that I have standing for. Now, I'm trying to figure out how best to fit my Mach for highest isk gains. The standard shield mods would apply and damage/tracking mods in low slots. The only mod I'm not too sure about is to fit a prop or not and which one, since mwds are now allowed in ds. From what I hear is they (angels rats) spawn and orbit very close range. Just curious if anyone had any certain advice that they think is worth sharing. Even if it's a secret. I promise not to tell anyone else...it's safe with me. :) rig choice is what I'm most concerned about to go with which prop? I'm not skilled for a Varg.(huge cargo space for cap boosters) and never been crazy about the penalties for stacking 4 mods. I was thinking about expanded cargo. I know it slightly reduces my speed. But, I'm more worried about my cap. You may laugh at the expanded cargo. But, I like having the xtra 800's in my cargo hold. Especially, since I often get distracted to be asked to turn off my mwd or sb. Now, I know I could set auto to off. But, I don't like having to reclick them on. OK, enough BS here's my fit I was thinking about. Please make any comments be constructive. BTW this fit would be for the first mission I got from agent. "Angels Blockade" thanks [Machariel, Lvl 4 MWD MEAN MACHINE] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Expanded Cargohold II Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Explosion Dampening Field Gist X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L Auto Targeting System II Large Dynamic Fuel Valve II Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II Drones_Inactive=Warrior II, 5 Drones_Inactive=Valkyrie II, 5 Drones_Inactive=Hammerhead II, 5 When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:24:00 - [2] T2 ROF rig, and maybe a thermal screen.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.03 00:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Von Kapiche T2 ROF rig, and maybe a thermal screen. with or w/o mwd? When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Arazel Chainfire The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2011.03.03 13:11:00 - [4] The mach goes 550m/s with just a t2 afterburner, and the afterburner doesn't blow up our sig. I would just go with that. Additionally, I wouldn't bother with the cap booster - 90% of missions my gank is so much I don't even have to run the booster, and thats when I'm running solo. (dual boxing I never need to use the booster, unless I get distracted). As for rigs, I put a t2 RoF rig on mine, and the one that increases targeting range. Mach against angels is absurdly easy anyways, they really like to get close, and most of em don't start doing damage before they are under 10 km. You also generally don't have to bother with drones - work from friggies to BS with your guns, friggies pop in a single volley, cruisers in 2-3, and bs a few more depending upon range. -Arazel
Centus Commander	Posted - 2011.03.03 13:12:00 - [5] Just go 3x CCC and be it done with. AB will be fine and won't take up as much power
Tore Smith Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:06:00 - [6] Edited by: Tore Smith on 03/03/2011 14:06:41 while the t2 burst is quite a good choice, you should also consider t2 shield resistance rigs for less tank in the mids and instead an additional tc for better damage projection. with the mach in angel missions you shouldnt need a cargo expander. another gyro gives you about 60 dps more which is better imo. furthermore angels dont tend to be that far away, that i mostly sit put and deploy 4 bouncerII. you will need a dla in the 8th high, but its worth it. use them for stuff further away, while you kill close targets. my fit: 1128 dps with sentries, 860 dps @ 50km still. [Machariel, Angels] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L Drone Link Augmentor I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Bouncer II x4 Warrior II x5 cheers! edit typo.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:25:00 - [7] @Above imho the OP tank is just fine. It's Angels specific and it'll work as long as he's playing halfway decently. Originally by: Centus Commander Just go 3x CCC and be it done with. AB will be fine and won't take up as much power The philosophy behind the boat and the fitting matter. This is a quality FAST gank boat with a quality gank fitting, it's gank is its tank. There's no reason to put quasi-defensive rigs on it. It's also a very bad idea to go against the FAST concept by fitting an expanded cargohold. If he really does not know what to put in the lows, to save such expensive fitting he could put a DC II in the lows. It does help on shield a bit and it is a lifesaver in oh-crap situations if he drops in armor. Anyway a typical rigging for a minnie gank boat are - Large projectile ambit extension - Large projectile collision accelerator Either put the above (one of them in double copy) or add a Large Core defence capacitor safeguard as third. For the prop, put a Republic Fleet 100mn AB, it rocks in every possible way. For Angels you want to be: - fast - ganky and for this you need quick realign, quick transversal minimization, as fartest falloff as possible. - quick, because some of them WILL kite you while dealing damage you have an hole for, and they kite you in Machariels not in Dominixes. Finally, webbed gank boat is like a T3 webbed cruiser: it's better it got a nice AB to keep it running fast to speed tank. Finally, you can often get off with a simple cap recharger, but I'd keep the booster for the mission you got, just in case. For the quantity of cap boosters I never needed more than 12, and this happened when doing Serpentis WC when it was bugged and always insta-stage aggroed at warp in. With 12 I could tank all the room and kill all. So you see you don't really need an expanded cargohold. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Miss Xoco Minmatar Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:35:00 - [8] Edited by: Miss Xoco on 03/03/2011 14:37:53 I dont find that fit adorable. -All low stacked by DPS modules, even 4 times a expensive Republic Gyro, while the 4. Gyro already got 60% penalty. Damage mods arnt the only useful mods. -The ship hardly moves at all, it cant without an AB or MWD, Movement speed is one of the Machs strongest spots, only a Covert Ops Panther BS is faster. -Shield Rigs are increasing signature, low signature is the Machs strong spot which is in that case desroyed. Conclusion: I generaly do not recommend to hurt a strong spot from a ship. What any Mach need is AB or MWD, and what they dont need are shield rigs. Only exception is a single one in order to push up a important resistance, in term 2x T2 CC used. Can aswell be a Capacitor safeguard which will help to run the booster longer. In that term a very good booster with a adequate amplifier is important, NEVER a booster without amplifier.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:55:00 - [9] every pve must have 8 gank mods no matter what. if its machariel, then its 4 gyro 3 tracking enhancer 1 aetor t2
Tore Smith Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.03 16:22:00 - [10] Edited by: Tore Smith on 03/03/2011 16:24:34 Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 03/03/2011 14:37:53 I dont find that fit adorable. -All low stacked by DPS modules, even 4 times a expensive Republic Gyro, while the 4. Gyro already got 60% penalty. Damage mods arnt the only useful mods. -The ship hardly moves at all, it cant without an AB or MWD, Movement speed is one of the Machs strongest spots, only a Covert Ops Panther BS is faster. -Shield Rigs are increasing signature, low signature is the Machs strong spot which is in that case desroyed. Conclusion: I generaly do not recommend to hurt a strong spot from a ship. What any Mach need is AB or MWD, and what they dont need are shield rigs. Only exception is a single one in order to push up a important resistance, in term 2x T2 CC used. Can aswell be a Capacitor safeguard which will help to run the booster longer. In that term a very good booster with a adequate amplifier is important, NEVER a booster without amplifier. i cant follow your logic. sure for pvp purposes the machs sig and speed are what counts. this is about pve though. why should a mach run around in most any angel mission available. its falloff is massive and damage projection even far out is excellent. i dont see it. rather i would change to arties if some angel mission, i wouldn't know of yet, requires extreme range (unlike serp/gur). another example: my mission vindi has no web. does it fail because this strong point went unused, i think no. because its main use is to destroy gur and serp rats for which you dont need a web. it is still the best rail platform available hence its use. in detail: - even with a mwd you lose time traveling from spawn to spawn. on top you cant use sentries and your drones have to travel too. this is not compensated by the the falloff improvement when rats generally spawn <50km which in case of angels they mostly do. - gyros, yes they are penalized. but as said before, even the 4th one will still give you ~60dps more. dps i might add that are actually applicable. so yes dmg and tracking are the only useful mods for a pve mach imo. ok maybe a sigamp too. - this brings me to the next point of your critique the tank and the accompanying rigs. the only reason you would need cccs for lies in having to maintain your tank because you dont have enough gank. probably because of something "useful" in the lows. and btw, your sig with a mwd is the size of a moon already, the shield rigs wont worsen that much. so i stay by either t2 burst or t2 shield mods. cheers! edit typos
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.03 21:10:00 - [11] Only use an AB or MWD in missions where it makes the mission completion time faster. I run a gist C, invuln and explosive hardner, TP and omnidirectional tracking link in my mids. Getting 18.5 mil bounty ticks vs sansha's @ 916dps on the new storyline, about 16 vs angels in "the blockade"
Miss Xoco Minmatar Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Miss Xoco on 04/03/2011 11:54:02 I know exactly what your strategy is: Install a Artillery-like station in the middle of space and then shot them all down from very far with as much gank as possible. If that works for you then fine, your SP seems perfect. I tried same with a Maelstrom once, i failed and sold the ship after. I got same issue with Kronos, just a bad ship i guess. I just dont know what im gonna do with. A Web bonus nobody seems to need, and the only possible guns seems to be gauss guns which will have problems hitting the target when close. I even fitted an AB, why? Because when they get close to me i can prepare my grave. Why you need a Mach in order to have such a immovable gank plattform im not sure. I guess there are many other ships almost equal for 1/10 price. Rokh or Maelstrom can fit 8 huge turrets too and nearly same power for that matter, but they lack versatility. signature, movement speed and all that stuff which isnt important in your case and therefore wasted. Anyway, everyone as they enjoy.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.04 13:08:00 - [13] Quote: If that works for you then fine, your SP seems perfect. I tried same with a Maelstrom once, i failed and sold the ship after I use the same Maelstrom in gank boat fitting (the "Baby Varg" posted on Battleclinic) since... ever and it has yet to fail. But sure as hell I would never fit a cargo expander and even more sure as hell I WILL fit a RF 100mn AB. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Plentath	Posted - 2011.03.04 13:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: If that works for you then fine, your SP seems perfect. I tried same with a Maelstrom once, i failed and sold the ship after I use the same Maelstrom in gank boat fitting (the "Baby Varg" posted on Battleclinic) since... ever and it has yet to fail. Do check her post history, it's quite a fun read tl;dr - level 4's are not worth it because it's too hard to omni tank them.
Tore Smith Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 04/03/2011 12:09:12 ... so it can tank it all using gank. that would be perfect indeed. in fact most of the sansha/blood missions have so little incoming dps, that a viable nightmare fit only needs a med booster, 2 hardeners and one rig for tank. the lows are gank and tracking plus 3 tracking comps in the mids and ofc a burst2 rig. try it, its fun and missions are done in a few minutes.
Tore Smith Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Plentath Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: If that works for you then fine, your SP seems perfect. I tried same with a Maelstrom once, i failed and sold the ship after I use the same Maelstrom in gank boat fitting (the "Baby Varg" posted on Battleclinic) since... ever and it has yet to fail. Do check her post history, it's quite a fun read tl;dr - level 4's are not worth it because it's too hard to omni tank them. thx, that was educating. though i must admit, that l4s provided challenge with low skills, which she seems to have.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.04 16:57:00 - [17] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 04/03/2011 16:59:28 Ok, thinking that with my vast experience running missions I wouldn't have any problems with aggro control I went ahead and ran angels blockade in a unrigged Mach to determine which rigs to fit for future missions. Even though I would really like to have some more fun zooming around with mwd I think I'll just stick with ab. Here's what I used. other than the guns and te being t2. everything else was faction or ds. 800mm ac and auto target ab large gist sb explo hard inv. sba 4x reb. gyro 3x te no rigs with proper aggro control I never dropped below 50% shields or cap. So, I've decided to go with 8 or 9 gank mods :) for the easier mission I will encounter. rigs to be t2 burst and 2x ccc...just can't think of putting anything else and since I'll be carrying various damage ammo I don't want cap booster. perhaps if you use a less expensive sb a cap booster might be needed sometimes. tc in the mid in place of the sba thanks to everyone for your advice When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:14:00 - [18] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 04/03/2011 17:14:59 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 04/03/2011 17:14:34 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 04/03/2011 16:59:28 Ok, thinking that with my vast experience running missions I wouldn't have any problems with aggro control I went ahead and ran angels blockade in a unrigged Mach to determine which rigs to fit for future missions. Even though I would really like to have some more fun zooming around with mwd I think I'll just stick with ab. Here's what I used. other than the guns and te being t2. everything else was faction or ds. 800mm ac and auto target ab large gist sb explo hard inv. sba 4x reb. gyro 3x te no rigs with proper aggro control I never dropped below 50% shields or cap. So, I've decided to go with 8 or 9 gank mods :) for the easier mission I will encounter. rigs to be t2 burst and 2x ccc...just can't think of putting anything else and since I'll be carrying various damage ammo I don't want cap booster. perhaps if you use a less expensive sb a cap booster might be needed sometimes. tc in the mid in place of the sba thanks to everyone for your advice Only thing, I feel to caution you about: - Recon 1/4, if you let some battleships go away, they will punch in your resistance hole a lot and there are scram frigs, so beware. - Serps WC in case you go pay a visit to SoE or some Gallente agent, they often bug and stage aggro on warp in, while getting you scrammed. If you don't have cap boosters backup and don't have thermodynamics to overheat then you are toast even with that shield. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:31:00 - [19] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 04/03/2011 17:33:32 damn, just remembered t2 burst takes up just about all of the calibration. ??? I think I might just be stuck w/3x ccc or go w/the first post t2 burst and anti-therm or friction nozzle for better align. either way I'm sure I'll have plenty of gank on this *****. :) When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.04 20:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 04/03/2011 17:33:32 damn, just remembered t2 burst takes up just about all of the calibration luckily it is pretty much the only worthwhile rig to put there with the remaining 50 calibration I'd go with a low friction nozzle joint, yay agility \o/ vs ab/mwd try both, pick whichever one you find better.
Miss Xoco Minmatar Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation	Posted - 2011.03.05 08:24:00 - [21] Guess no need to post fits anymore, i know already what you guys/gals gonna fit. Most huge cannons and cannon expansion modules, thats pretty much whats inside.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.05 10:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Miss Xoco Guess no need to post fits anymore, i know already what you guys/gals gonna fit. Most huge cannons and cannon expansion modules, thats pretty much whats inside. for me everything is designed around shield booster you fit. If you use a good gist large or xl it will be easier to fly and allows you to fit more gank. When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.

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