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Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 00:01:00 - [61] I do have copying alts, as you can see with several of my alts they all have cybernetics v which allows me to make use of the 5% implant. I do have a POS in highsec. Buy my shares
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.03.06 00:36:00 - [62] I keep seeing thoughtful questions and satisfactory answers regarding the day-to-day business operations. However, I'm not clear on how shareholder value is secured. Are BPO's locked down by 3rd party full shareholder? Or does Brock have access to unlock at any time? This part of the business plan seems considerably more important to shareholders than any copy bottlenecks, IMHO.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 00:59:00 - [63] Like I said before, about 27b of capital component and ship blueprint is already locked down but to confirm that is moot since a few people has pointed out that an auditor won't be able to tell the differences between BPO and BPC. Heck, an audit will show that I have hundreds of T2 BPO. Buy my shares
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.03.06 01:38:00 - [64] Originally by: Brock Nelson Like I said before, about 27b of capital component and ship blueprint is already locked down... As a potential investor, I don't care whether they are already locked down, I care about how they can be unlocked/taken. If you take this company public, then all of the assets no longer belong to you, de jure. But, with EVE being a crude RL economic simulator, it's the de facto of who actually controls those assets that is important. If you can unlock those BPOS which comprise the majority of company wealth, then you can erode the majority of shareholder equity with no consequences, save lost reputation. Trusting you with 7 B in working capital is 5x different than giving you a signed check for 36 B. Lost reputation is quantifiable, in a relative sense. Trustees/3rd parties have more to lose here and so we as shareholders have more security of investment. Any plans to give us some peace of mind here? Or is it simply... C'mon, Trust me!
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 02:01:00 - [65] Originally by: Lando Antilles Lost reputation is quantifiable, in a relative sense. Trustees/3rd parties have more to lose here and so we as shareholders have more security of investment. Any plans to give us some peace of mind here? Or is it simply... C'mon, Trust me! Even if a third party got involved, became CEO and locked the blueprint down themselves, there are at least 2 ways to unlock them without anyone noticing it. Is there any point to try involve a third party? Cosmoray was a third party holder and yet he ended up scamming. How much do you really want to bet that Grendell, Darkness or Chribba won't? Your entire NAV? This IPO is probaby more of a "Let others invest and see what happens" I don't know if anyone's been watching the reservation list but at this point, 10,034 shares have been sold and 9,516 are reserved, leaving 16,450 available. Those with reservation are free to go ahead, send the isk and I will send the shares as soon as possible. I won't be too concerned if all of the shares aren't sold before this month, it won't have an impact on the business. To give a bonus for the current investors, any dividend payment to shares that are not sold (owned by Brock Nelson) will be redistributed to current investors as a 'thank you'. At this point, I haven't been able to secure an auditor. I've sent a request to 3 auditors so far and was turned down by 2 of them, I haven't heard from Lord A yet. Buy my shares
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.06 03:00:00 - [66] Originally by: Brock Nelson Like I said before, about 27b of capital component and ship blueprint is already locked down but to confirm that is moot since a few people has pointed out that an auditor won't be able to tell the differences between BPO and BPC. Heck, an audit will show that I have hundreds of T2 BPO. sigh More misinformation. There is a very simple way to lock down BPOs, as I've already told you. There is also a very simple way for an auditor to verify BPOs versus BPCs - he places an alt in the corp and checks all blueprints. Come to that, he also checks your towers and your PI setups.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 04:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Varo Jan Originally by: Brock Nelson Like I said before, about 27b of capital component and ship blueprint is already locked down but to confirm that is moot since a few people has pointed out that an auditor won't be able to tell the differences between BPO and BPC. Heck, an audit will show that I have hundreds of T2 BPO. sigh More misinformation. There is a very simple way to lock down BPOs, as I've already told you. There is also a very simple way for an auditor to verify BPOs versus BPCs - he places an alt in the corp and checks all blueprints. Come to that, he also checks your towers and your PI setups. Ok, would you be willing to send an alt to join my corp? Also, how will he check my PI setup? I'm not going to allow anyone to sign into my account to do this. Buy my shares
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 04:41:00 - [68] Ugh, somehow the shares have disappeared after the vote was concluded and didn't even show up in sanctionable action. I've petitioned this. In the meantime, I've returned the isk that were sent back Buy my shares
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.06 04:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Brock Nelson Ok, would you be willing to send an alt to join my corp? Yes, I could do that with certain preconditions - but let's step back for a moment, Brock. You're looking to raise 36B via an IPO, partly secured on BPOs. You own the BPOs and you are running PI and invention lines too. You haven't yet decided what you will use the money for. That's what you've said so far. Here's an easy solution for you. Go for a 4%(?) bond amounting to 90% of the value of the BPOs. Hand the BPOs over to a trusted third party. Grendell or RAW23 would be ideal, but I'm sure Breaker would be willing to do that for you. The only questions re Breaker are (a) what's his total current public exposure? and (b) would investors be ok with that setup, given his friendship with you? You wouldn't need an audit under that scenario - just confirmation from Breaker that he is holding BPOs to the value of X and that you have no unlock access. The main reason I'm suggesting this is that you have no concrete plans for using any of the money, let alone 36B. A secured bond would require you to come up with a plan fast to sweat that money. If you can come up with a valid reason for asking for 36B of public money, then I'll comment on that proposal when I see it. Until then, it's premature of me to talk about verifying your BPOs.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 05:04:00 - [70] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 06/03/2011 05:04:09 Ok, you're right on the account that perhaps 36b is probably unreasonable considering that its partially secured by 27b of blueprints. Would you be at least willing to concede the 90% of the NPC value condition in exchange for reducing my asking to 100% of the bpo value which would be 27b? As far as what to do with the 27b, I have some idea; -Reinvest into additional capital bpo -Train up more alts to do PI and use the isk to purchase the PI material for production -Loan service For those idea, I haven't really looked at it hard as I don't want it to affect the total monthly dividend negatively (27b investor isk + 27b of my isk = lower dividend payment overall). I'm more than willing to keep this business as an IPO as it will be attractive to investors to have higher interest rate compared to a 4% bond. Buy my shares
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.03.06 05:33:00 - [71] Originally by: Varo Jan If you can come up with a valid reason for asking for 36B of public money, then I'll comment on that proposal when I see it. While I'm also questioning aspects of the business plan, I think you're missing the point VJ. Right now, Brock owns this company full and outright. He is planning to sell it to the public. The money he gets from the IPO is his. That's how a real IPO often works and that's what was established on the first page. The shareholders will then collectively own a company worth about 36 B, with 3/4 of that in long term assets. The 36 B collected in this IPO does NOT go to the company, the company only gets the liquid assets (ISK, structures, mats) and 27 B worth of BPOs. Since the liquid assets must stay liquid for the business to run, the only 'secure' assets are the BPOs. That's what justifies the value of the equity. How those BPOs are safeguarded is vital to making this a successful venture. Isn't this what is going on, or did I fail reading comprehension?
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 05:38:00 - [72] Well, I'm more than willing to change the value to 27b, fully collateralize by capital blueprints. At this moment, Krythas is sending his alt to check if there is indeed 27b of capital bpo and they're locked down. Buy my shares
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.06 05:47:00 - [73] Originally by: Brock Nelson Ok, you're right on the account that perhaps 36b is probably unreasonable considering that its partially secured by 27b of blueprints. Would you be at least willing to concede the 90% of the NPC value condition in exchange for reducing my asking to 100% of the bpo value which would be 27b? I wouldn't have a problem with that, Brock, based on my own knowledge of that specific market. However, my personal opinion is immaterial here. What matters is the perception of your investors. Quote: As far as what to do with the 27b, I have some idea; -Reinvest into additional capital bpo -Train up more alts to do PI and use the isk to purchase the PI material for production -Loan service For those idea, I haven't really looked at it hard as I don't want it to affect the total monthly dividend negatively (27b investor isk + 27b of my isk = lower dividend payment overall). I'm more than willing to keep this business as an IPO as it will be attractive to investors to have higher interest rate compared to a 4% bond. What I suggest you do is approach Grendell/RAW23/Breaker to finalise arrangements for BPO security, and put some flesh on the bones of your preliminary business plan - then come back and ask investors for X. I do understand the attraction of running an IPO. However, I'd suggest you consider the extra real hassles involved versus a simple collateralised bond. Re your bullet points: More capital BPOs would be one way of offering more security to investors, which is good. However, the returns are not stellar. Re more PI or perhaps more invention (?), there are only so many hours in the day. Be careful that you don't set yourself up for burnout.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.06 05:57:00 - [74] Originally by: Lando Antilles While I'm also questioning aspects of the business plan, I think you're missing the point VJ. Right now, Brock owns this company full and outright. He is planning to sell it to the public. The money he gets from the IPO is his. That's how a real IPO often works and that's what was established on the first page. The shareholders will then collectively own a company worth about 36 B, with 3/4 of that in long term assets. The 36 B collected in this IPO does NOT go to the company, the company only gets the liquid assets (ISK, structures, mats) and 27 B worth of BPOs. Since the liquid assets must stay liquid for the business to run, the only 'secure' assets are the BPOs. That's what justifies the value of the equity. How those BPOs are safeguarded is vital to making this a successful venture. Isn't this what is going on, or did I fail reading comprehension? He's planning to put that money back into the corp, thus retaining a 50%(?) stake, so asking what he intends to use it for is reasonable, wouldn't you say? I'm all for simplicity, and in an EVE context a bond is far, far simpler to raise and run than an IPO. With a bond Brock would only need to use a third party to lock down the BPOs. With an IPO, partially secured, he'll need lock down security, a full audit, ongoing performance audits - and much more effort ongoing on his part.
Krythas	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:06:00 - [75] Edited by: Krythas on 06/03/2011 06:05:57 Posting to confirm. I got access to the corp and had a look through the list of Capital blue prints. 15 of these were currently being researched for either time efficiency or material efficiency. The rest were in the corporate hanger (8 BPOs) and were in a locked down status. Based roughly on NPC prices (5 I'll need to relog and check for an accurate NPC price but tended to estimate on the low side) there was around 28bn in BPOs Edit: spelling
Jack Mortu	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:13:00 - [76] Alright, I get that your IPO is for selling the company. Makes sense, in theory. What someone hasn't yet pointed out (or at least I didn't notice if they did) is why on earth would you continue to operate a business you no longer own, to generate profit for other people? Yes, having 36 bil cash is nice, but it's a finite number you could then spend your time investing in other things. Are you going to continue working at a business for free, week after week, month after month for nothing? Maybe you're planning on charging a hefty management fee? Yet you didn't mention this. Or are you going to turn the busines over to the shareholders after the IPO and say, "Well guy's, she's all yours!" You'd be well within your right to do such a thing after having sold the company, I wouldn't even call it a scam... just a fact that was conveniantly left out of the details. It's just pretty rare in eve to come across charity labor when the amounts are in the billions.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:23:00 - [77] Well Jack, you got it right. I'm not asking for a management fee or have any intention of disappearing. Honestly I've reached the point where I've done almost everything, I could keep going with this business model and continue to generate isk but what am I really going to do with it? There is no end game, I'm having fun doing industrial kind of thing and I think undertaking this kind of project to generate isk for others adds to it. Buy my shares
Jack Mortu	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:40:00 - [78] Edited by: Jack Mortu on 06/03/2011 06:40:35 Well, if I was investing, I'd insist on a management fee. Up to 20% sounds reasonable. Distributed each time a dividend is given. That's up to you and your investors though. :) Good luck! (Even if it turns out to be a scam lol)
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:45:00 - [79] Originally by: Brock Nelson I'm not asking for a management fee or have any intention of disappearing. I think undertaking this kind of project to generate isk for others adds to it. So, you want to keep running the business, and, as VJ claims, you want to use some of the IPO funds to buy more BPOs? Here's what makes sense to me with your situation... -issue an IPO for 36 k shares of holding corp, 10 M each. You keep 9k (25%) and offer 27 k on open market -You make 3rd party CEO of your actual corp, giving them all shares. All IPO funds (27 B) goto 3rd party. They buy new BPOs you suggest and lock them down. -carry on business as usual -When it comes time to issue dividends, give your 3rd party 5-10%, then issue the rest according to share count in holding corp. You get 25% of this. Share price should shoot up fast after IPO since the 36k equity shares will be secured by (27+27= 54 B) worth of BPO's. Which means each share is worth at least 1.5 x IPO value on paper (not to mention liquid assets or good will for infrastructure). If you want to do something like this or even more awesome, I'd like to reserve upt to 1 B ISK worth of equity (depending on details.)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.06 08:39:00 - [80] Quote: a few people has pointed out that an auditor won't be able to tell the differences between BPO and BPC. Heck, an audit will show that I have hundreds of T2 BPO This is not true. Quote: Even if a third party got involved, became CEO and locked the blueprint down themselves, there are at least 2 ways to unlock them without anyone noticing it This is true. There may be at least a third way to unlock them though. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Khanid Voltar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.03.06 08:42:00 - [81] Originally by: Brock Nelson In the meantime, I've returned the isk that were sent back Confirming that I have received the original 10B back whilst Brock sorts the shares out
RAW23	Posted - 2011.03.06 08:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Even if a third party got involved, became CEO and locked the blueprint down themselves, there are at least 2 ways to unlock them without anyone noticing it This is true. There may be at least a third way to unlock them though. If they are all considered exploits (something that can be checked via petition) then this isn't really a problem. If they are used the user will simply be banned and the exploited changes rolled back.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.06 09:28:00 - [83] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Even if a third party got involved, became CEO and locked the blueprint down themselves, there are at least 2 ways to unlock them without anyone noticing it This is true. There may be at least a third way to unlock them though. If they are all considered exploits (something that can be checked via petition) then this isn't really a problem. If they are used the user will simply be banned and the exploited changes rolled back. This is only true as long as EvE's outdated logging mechanisms allow for. I.e. if you lose a ship due to a server crash, due to account hacked, due to exploit you will get it back, but usually only the bare and unrigged hull. If you got back 10 freigther and carrier BPOs but with 0 PE 0 ME it'd still not be fun at all. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.03.06 20:03:00 - [84] You stole my corp name. Grendell ♥
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 21:23:00 - [85] Ok the 36k shares is available as the petition was resolved by CCP. I've sent out 15,134 shares already to those who have sent the isk and that leaves 7,450 shares available after reservation. I'm retaining 9k shares as management fee after having a chat with a few investors. I will be sending out the a mail to those who have made reservation. Buy my shares
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 21:32:00 - [86] Sorry Grendell, I actually got the idea from another corp. Buy my shares
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.03.06 22:04:00 - [87] Edited by: Lando Antilles on 06/03/2011 22:07:16 Nice talking to you ingame. Thanks for clarifying the destiny of the IPO funds. It may also be helpful to spell out that they are officially your ISKies since you sold them to shareholders for 3/4 of the company. Could you perhaps outline under what circumstances that money may be re-invested in the company? Would you get more equity? or would you loan it to T24U, or offer a line of credit? (and how would interest/principle on that be paid down? XX ISK /mo?) Also, was it ever clarified how the BPO's would be locked down? did you get a 3rd party onboard? this info would also give potential investors peace of mind if it's in the OP. And i'm still interested in 1000 shares (possibly up to 2000) if some of the above is clarified further.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.06 23:55:00 - [88] The blueprint is locked down, Krythas had an alt of his joined T24U to verify that there is indeed 27b of BPO and are locked down. Post #71 Buy my shares
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:00:00 - [89] Edited by: Lando Antilles on 07/03/2011 01:01:15 Originally by: Brock Nelson The blueprint is locked down, Krythas had an alt of his joined T24U to verify that there is indeed 27b of BPO and are locked down. Thank you for the clarification. I'm sorry that I missed it first time around. As a follow up, does this IPO issue shares for the corp controlling these BPO's? (granted, voting isn't perfect, but it's something.) Also, could you pledge a method for reinvesting your IPO proceeds? That is your ISK, but current investors I've spoken to (and myself - a potential investor) would like to have some idea for how this business could grow and increase shareholder equity long term. Perhaps you could give T24U an XXisk loan (big$) of indefinite term for YY% (small%). Or you could offer to increase share count by XX and buy those new shares at 1 M each, transferring some of your new cash to T24U. (this would dilute the ownership stake of public shareholders, but not their equity as the new shares would be secured with ISK). This option would also increase your ownership percent and give T24U more BPO's to work with. If you made and bought 9B new shares, you would end up with 40% ownership in the company and T24U would have 25% more funds for capital expansion. Food for thought, i hope. Also, I'd like to formally reserve 1.6 B shares.
Misty McGinnity	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:48:00 - [90] ill take 1 share pls for the lulz.

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