EVE Search - EVE ONLINE - P2P & PAY TO WIN (PLEX)

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

EVE ONLINE - P2P & PAY TO WIN (PLEX)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:09:00 - [1] Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win
Matalino	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:10:00 - [2] ISK != WIN
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:23:00 - [3] he'll loose that all pretty fast mind you .,.., it's not a win -- Join BIG
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:25:00 - [4] What did he win? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:26:00 - [5] Originally by: G 0 DThe day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing.[/quote I hope this is an exaggeration. 5 PLEX is what? 1.75 billion. My year and a half old toon can make 30+ million ISK an hour running L4s. I've brought in 1.5 billion in one week of hard grinding. Even if you are only making 10 million ISK an hour, it would take 150 hours to make 1.5 billion. A year-and a half is like 75 weeks, so 2 hours a week of play.
Xelena Shellar	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:33:00 - [6] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win If your whole reason to play the game was to compete with people in ISK and SP, I hate to break the news, but you were already WAAAY down the list before he started, trust me. 5 plexes is around 2bil, and a year and a half of play can't be more than 20mil SP. 20mil chars are 4-5bil if they are well trained, so quite frankly, all of your time in EVE equates to about 6-7bil in total. People have scammed for over 600 bil before(100 times your worth), and a titan is still in the 60bil range, or 10 times your worth. Basically, you're a small fry in the grand scheme of things.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Furthermore, ISK + SP != WIN _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Mutant Miner Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:43:00 - [8] Edited by: Mutant Miner on 04/03/2011 17:43:13 Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: G 0 D The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. I hope this is an exaggeration. 5 PLEX is what? 1.75 billion. My year and a half old toon can make 30+ million ISK an hour running L4s. I've brought in 1.5 billion in one week of hard grinding. Even if you are only making 10 million ISK an hour, it would take 150 hours to make 1.5 billion. A year-and a half is like 75 weeks, so 2 hours a week of play. High sec level 4 grinders only make 1.5 bil in a week of hard grinding? lolwut, I can make that in a day of half assing it in low sec. Oh and its clear the OP is trolling, why humor him?
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Xelena Shellar Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win Basically, you're a small fry in the grand scheme of things. I have no problem being a "small fry." What I do have a problem with is that everyone with RL money to spare can be a BIG FRY. Personally I play mmo's for the competetive aspect. I don't care if I blow up someones ship and they can spend 30$ and buy 100 more.
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:46:00 - [10] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win so, a few weeks ago you were emochildragequitting over Incana, now you're emochildragequitting over your pal having more cash than you? Can you PLEASE stop telling us how you're going to quit and just quit? Frigging kids. .

Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:50:00 - [11] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 04/03/2011 17:49:53 Originally by: G 0 D I have no problem being a "small fry." What I do have a problem with is that everyone with RL money to spare can be a BIG FRY. Personally I play mmo's for the competetive aspect. I don't care if I blow up someones ship and they can spend 30$ and buy 100 more. so, maybe it's because i'm not 15 and i have a job that gives me a nice amount of disposable income, but if I were you I'd probably more concerned that my pal had more cash than me IRL than ingame and I might try and change that fact, rather than posting about it on a game forum. .
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:50:00 - [12] Edited by: Tippia on 04/03/2011 17:51:16 Originally by: G 0 D What I do have a problem with is that everyone with RL money to spare can be a BIG FRY. Not really, no. More to the point, though: what was it your friend "won"? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:50:00 - [13] Pesky LaRue Have fun playing the only p2p mmo with a cash shop. And yeah, im just as dissapointed with the expansions ive witnessed in my time playing eve. Eve gate, PI, and this WIS crap have had nothing to do with why I picked up eve in the first place a year and a half ago. I came for full loot pvp, left because of bad game direction and the cash shop.
Pasmerktas	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:52:00 - [14] not at all, real win is experience, skills and time.
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:52:00 - [15] Originally by: G 0 D blah blah blah, nothing interesting, clever or new, just more childish drivel. you've said you'll quit multiple times - stop crying for attention like a baby who dropped her icecream in dog poop and just quit. Genuinely - NO ONE CARES. .
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:52:00 - [16] Originally by: G 0 D Eve gate, PI, and this WIS crap have had nothing to do with why I picked up eve in the first place a year and a half ago. So don't use them. Now you won! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:00:00 - [17] Well I like the cash shop myself. We get all sorts of irl rich players doing this and undocking in a nice faction boat or t3 filled with faction shineys who then goes on to promptly lose it to our artypocs on the undock. Hell some even do it multiple times so whats not to love about it as it certainly plays into the full loot pvp part of the game quite well for me and others. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Xylengra	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:22:00 - [18] Originally by: G 0 D I have recently quit EVE because blah blah blah blah Why does every ****head who realizes he isn't cut out for this game feel the need to come and tell us that they are quitters? I mean, ffs, have some dignity. No one will miss you. No one cares a bit about you leaving. Just go, and spare us your whining. Just go. P.S. I wouldn't take your crappy stuffs even if my life depended on it.
Xelena Shellar	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:43:00 - [19] Edited by: Xelena Shellar on 04/03/2011 18:44:56 Originally by: G 0 D Have fun playing the only p2p mmo with a cash shop. Lol, what are you talking about? Between IGE, playerauctions, and the tons of other sites EVERY MMO has a cash shop. EVE just happens to have one that is sanctioned by the game producers, which is great, it helps keep people like me honest; I say this because I've bought cash in about every other MMO I've played, but never needed to in EVE to speak of, but when I did I took advantage of the PLEX option, and quick and easy as well. Quite frankly with an hour of IRL work being worth ~800mil, it's a given that some people(me) will be buying ISK when they need a quick bit of cash. Fortunately PLEXes are there as an easy way to do it, without incurring the wrath of CCP. (Forgot obligatory trolling) EDIT: Just because you can't afford PLEXes on a burger-flippers salary doesn't mean PLEX sales are bad. Go away G0D, no one wants you here!
Medarr Amarr ZeroSec Excuses.	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:45:00 - [20] Originally by: G 0 D I have recently quit EVE So the rest of your post is irrelevant... Bye!!

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:49:00 - [21] Originally by: G 0 D What I do have a problem with is that everyone with RL money to spare can be a BIG FRY. Hmm. It would take over 20k USD to get to roughly where I am right now gameplay-wise. And I still don't consider myself a "big fry". Anybody willing to spend enough to buy a pretty nice car just to match my ingame performance so far is WELCOME TO DO IT. Please, do spend so much money on EVE. I'd like to see your faction-fit supercarrier flown by your purchased uberpilot with a head full of expensive as hell implants pop to a miniblob and your capsule squished subsequently, so that I can laugh so hard my tears would start bursting out. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.04 20:49:00 - [22] Originally by: G 0 D I came for full loot pvp, left because of bad game direction and the cash shop. I swear I just read this line a few weeks ago oh right http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1471669 now kindly shut the **** up
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:01:00 - [23] good riddance. i would imagine that at some point you would have gotten upset that someone had more time than you and thus made it further faster. or was simply smarter and had a naturally occuring unfair advantage. so, not much we can say to help ya mate. good luck otherwise!
Jireel	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:01:00 - [24] Edited by: Jireel on 04/03/2011 22:05:24 Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win Hi. I make a billion a week in this 6 months old char, playing 2 hours a day. I've never bought any PLEX and never was funded by any player to do this. You should stop playing EVE and start a game matching your creative and intellectual capabilities. Truely yours, Jireel PS: I'm really happy about that PLEX system, giving good players the "play to play" option while other people give CCP money for them.
Smiffa Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.04 23:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Furthermore, ISK + SP != WIN Can't back this up enough. Been playing since November 2003, and still learning stuff every day. Stuff most folks take for granted, and never had a wallet balance over 350 mil. And that was just yesteday... Be here for the Internet Spaceships and 'splosions, me.
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.04 23:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: G 0 D I came for full loot pvp, left because of bad game direction and the cash shop. I swear I just read this line a few weeks ago oh right http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1471669 now kindly shut the ** up Yeah, if you don't like the game, why do you keep posting in the forums? Theres not a single mmo out there where RL money doesn't give advantages, NOT ONE that I've ever come across, and if there is any, I'd like to know how the devs get paid Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.*Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/* traditional500 channel
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous	Posted - 2011.03.04 23:35:00 - [27] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win Obvious RMT/bot propaganda is obvious. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Peter XZ Theres not a single mmo out there where RL money doesn't give advantages, NOT ONE that I've ever come across, and if there is any, I'd like to know how the devs get paid I don't think it mattered much in Planetsideà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Grey Stormshadow	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:17:00 - [29] If some1 is willing and able to fund his fleet strictly by buying plexes with $$, I don't mind... With that much money going to EVE development we surely get bang for our couple ship losses we maybe had because of this :) And also that guy just made the game time cost less isk to everyone else who fund their fun with plexes... so win win situation...
Karbowiak	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:28:00 - [30] Can you win EVE by having isk?.. Whats the winning limit then?.. I got 92b isk, plus whatever EVSCO earns me - have i won? Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO

Everinsearch	Posted - 2011.03.05 03:13:00 - [31] /also, this.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.05 05:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Isk is = Win. Guy with SP and skills and not much isk. Guy with SP and skills and lots of isk. 110% 2nd guy wins every time. Given you can buy SP (characters). Given theres almost no skill in the average PvP encounter. The guy with RL cash will always beat the guy without it. So yeah, EvE is a pay to win game if you want to fork out the cash. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.05 07:49:00 - [33] Offtopic posts removed. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.05 08:12:00 - [34] See signature. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
WowThisGameIsAwesome	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:39:00 - [35] OP , this fine comic might enlighten you http://i52.tinypic.com/2qknncx.png
Ver Selam	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Pesky LaRue so, a few weeks ago you were emochildragequitting over Incana, now you're emochildragequitting over your pal having more cash than you? /thread
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Isk is = Win. Guy with SP and skills and not much isk. Guy with SP and skills and lots of isk. 110% 2nd guy wins every time. Given you can buy SP (characters). Given theres almost no skill in the average PvP encounter. The guy with RL cash will always beat the guy without it. So yeah, EvE is a pay to win game if you want to fork out the cash. Common sense, intelligence and a willingness to be bold are what wins in this game. You can have a 100mil sp character and trillions of isk in the bank, but if you are a coward or a moron (or both) then you will ultimately fail. Those who fail and blame the game end up here, *****ing and whining. Those who fail and blame themselves are the ones who, after practising harder and more often, you will eventually see in your metaphorical rearview mirror, putting a laser or arty shell into the back of your head. Quit crying, grow a spine and go play. If you don't like it, tough, go elsewhere.
Genital Necrosis	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Isk is = Win. Guy with SP and skills and not much isk. Guy with SP and skills and lots of isk. 110% 2nd guy wins every time. Given you can buy SP (characters). Given theres almost no skill in the average PvP encounter. The guy with RL cash will always beat the guy without it. So yeah, EvE is a pay to win game if you want to fork out the cash. So the "average PvP encounter" is just 2 people sitting there in tank and spank ships at point blank range trading blows till the one with the most DPS + EHP wins? We apparently play different EVE's. I won in my T2/meta 4 fitted Curse with a 5 month old pilot against faction fitted Command Ships, HAC's, Battleships etc pilotted by 2005 pilots. They had SP, Skills and ISK over me and I still won, and this isn't a particularly rare event. How did I win? Similarly I lost a T2 fitted Hurricane to three 2 week old pilots because two came in blackbirds and the other in a Thorax. I had skills, isk and SP in my favour. How did I lose? How does that fit into your pathetic equation that is unrealistically limited in scope?
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Isk is = Win. Guy with SP and skills and not much isk. Guy with SP and skills and lots of isk. 110% 2nd guy wins every time. Given you can buy SP (characters). Given theres almost no skill in the average PvP encounter. The guy with RL cash will always beat the guy without it. So yeah, EvE is a pay to win game if you want to fork out the cash. Common sense, intelligence and a willingness to be bold are what wins in this game. You can have a 100mil sp character and trillions of isk in the bank, but if you are a coward or a moron (or both) then you will ultimately fail. Those who fail and blame the game end up here, ***ing and whining. Those who fail and blame themselves are the ones who, after practising harder and more often, you will eventually see in your metaphorical rearview mirror, putting a laser or arty shell into the back of your head. Quit crying, grow a spine and go play. If you don't like it, tough, go elsewhere. Nonsense argument. We can do this all day. You can have "Common sense, intelligence and a willingness to be bold" but when facing an adversary with the same "Common sense, intelligence and a willingness to be bold" and** who has the capacity to buy as much isk as they like" and YOU WILL LOSE. Its not the things you have in common but the advantages you don't have in common that decides the outcome. The only time your common sense, intelligence and willingness to be bold is beneficial is when your facing a less experienced opponent and that advantage quickly loses its appeal unless your engaging in small scale PvP. Medium and large scale PvP is all about numbers and equipment (isk). Take a fleet of 100 subcaps to a fight with a fleet of 100 mixed subcaps, capitals and SC and tell me how far those honorable qualities get you. About as far as your clone location I would imagine. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:42:00 - [40] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 05/03/2011 11:42:32 Originally by: Genital Necrosis Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Isk is = Win. Guy with SP and skills and not much isk. Guy with SP and skills and lots of isk. 110% 2nd guy wins every time. Given you can buy SP (characters). Given theres almost no skill in the average PvP encounter. The guy with RL cash will always beat the guy without it. So yeah, EvE is a pay to win game if you want to fork out the cash. So the "average PvP encounter" is just 2 people sitting there in tank and spank ships at point blank range trading blows till the one with the most DPS + EHP wins? We apparently play different EVE's. I won in my T2/meta 4 fitted Curse with a 5 month old pilot against faction fitted Command Ships, HAC's, Battleships etc pilotted by 2005 pilots. They had SP, Skills and ISK over me and I still won, and this isn't a particularly rare event. How did I win? Similarly I lost a T2 fitted Hurricane to three 2 week old pilots because two came in blackbirds and the other in a Thorax. I had skills, isk and SP in my favour. How did I lose? How does that fit into your pathetic equation that is unrealistically limited in scope? I find it extremely hard to believe you singlehandely beat multiple "faction fitted Command Ships, HAC's, Battleships etc pilotted by 2005 pilots" in a single curse. At the end of the day your personal pvp experiences are not high on my list of reliable proofs. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

Xiozor The Ditanian Fleet Excuses.	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:42:00 - [41] Edited by: Xiozor on 05/03/2011 11:43:36 ISK gives you an advantage. Duh. Or else it would have absolutely no value. If you want games that are 100% skill with no outside influences at all then maybe you should stick to Street Fighter. But it doesn't guarantee or even provide an easy avenue for a win in the slightest, and your arguement has been reduced to "If you have a group of pilots, all equally skilled and brilliant at the game, the one with a specific ingame advantage that the other doesn't will win!" ... Well done Plato. ----------------------------------------------- Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Xiozor ISK gives you an advantage. Duh. Or else it would have absolutely no value. If you want games that are 100% skill with no outside influences at all then maybe you should stick to Street Fighter. But it doesn't guarantee or even provide an easy avenue for a win in the slightest, and your arguement has been reduced to "If you have a group of pilots, all equally skilled and brilliant at the game, the one with an ingame advantage will win!" ... Well done Plato. You cannot make a reasonable comparison of the effects of buying isk vs someone not buying isk without a level playing field. Your argument that oh its okay if I buy lots of isk cause I probably will fight some really uber players and lose is stupid. The odds are you'll be fighting equal and less skilled players with less isk and you will win because you bought isk. End of Story. Thank You. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Genital Necrosis	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:50:00 - [43] Not all of those at once! Some had friends and stuff around with them, some were on their own but, many times over I have bested players who were superior to me in every way because I had the right ship at the right time and knew how to fly it properly and had the same done to me. In a Nano-Curse you can take on multiple opponents at once with relative ease if you know what your doing. Anything that can catch you usually doesn't have a cap booster so it has no MWD after 1 cycle of your neuts. Also you are forgetting the biggest factor of all! Numbers! Someone can bring a faction fitted Vindicator and he will beat my Megathron every time. But if I bought 2 Megathrons, or a Megathron and a Falcon, we would probably see a very different outcome.
Xiozor The Ditanian Fleet Excuses.	Posted - 2011.03.05 11:55:00 - [44] I support all my PvP'ing without timecards. The difference between a faction heat sink and a T2 heat sink is about 3% DPS, but it costs 60x as much. Your assumption goes by the only way to get ISK is to buy it. Keeping enough ISK to constantly churn out T2 fitted T2 ships which are highly effective is easy to do with only a few (<6) hours play a week. There are so many variables in EVE you can't ever say X will best Y every time because of Z because you are leaving out A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V and W. ----------------------------------------------- Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.03.05 12:23:00 - [45] While I do agree that the whole Plex/GTC for isk and sanctioned character sales is a bad thing. Its not at all for the reasons you posted.
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.05 14:36:00 - [46] Originally by: LHA Tarawa I hope this is an exaggeration. 5 PLEX is what? 1.75 billion. My year and a half old toon can make 30+ million ISK an hour running L4s. I've brought in 1.5 billion in one week of hard grinding. Even if you are only making 10 million ISK an hour, it would take 150 hours to make 1.5 billion. A year-and a half is like 75 weeks, so 2 hours a week of play. You just admitted to 50 hours of grinding in a week. You need help. Seriously, take a step outside and get some fresh air.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.05 14:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Infinity Ziona At the end of the day your personal pvp experiences are not high on my list of reliable proofs. They're about as high as your unfounded statements about how PvP works. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Templar Dane Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:33:00 - [48] Edited by: Templar Dane on 05/03/2011 18:34:14 Lord, Alpha and Omega, omnipotent one.........can I have your stuff? Oh, and could you give me the character as well? I'll pay the transfer fee.
KaarBaak Minmatar The Mighty 13th	Posted - 2011.03.05 22:32:00 - [49] Eve Online: "Interesting game...The only way to win is not to play." Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.06 04:13:00 - [50] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 06/03/2011 04:13:27 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Infinity Ziona At the end of the day your personal pvp experiences are not high on my list of reliable proofs. They're about as high as your unfounded statements about how PvP works. Lol. So many defensive persons. I buy plex too, I'm just not deluding myself that buying isk instead of earning it doesn't give me a distinct unfair advantage over people who don't. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.03.06 05:38:00 - [51] Originally by: G 0 D I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. You need to find the fights that take advantage of your abilities. It's also worth noting that a laser boat with no cap can't shoot anything, a hybrid boat with no cap can't shoot anything, turret boats of all varieties can't hit anything at optimal + 2 x falloff, drone boats with no drones can't kill anything, and a scrammed ship cannot warp away from a fight. This is not some fantasy MMO were you and four friends can just run the same instances, using the same tactics every day and "win". You make the content, you are the content. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.03.06 07:19:00 - [52] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win I have been saying this for a while now.I agree 100% and lost interest in eve as plex was introduced. +1 but don't bother arguing with the fanboys.
anniecannon	Posted - 2011.03.06 07:36:00 - [53] to op.. moan.. moan.. can i have your stuff?
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.06 09:35:00 - [54] ^^ Its interesting that the people who defend sanctioned RMT also seem to be the most inept posters... --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.06 09:50:00 - [55] ISK, skillpoints and alts do help but.. You can't fix stupid. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Jaldard	Posted - 2011.03.06 10:00:00 - [56] Originally by: Patient 2428190 ISK, skillpoints and alts do help but.. You can't fix stupid. everyone is stupid, so it doesn't matter.
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.03.06 10:40:00 - [57] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 06/03/2011 10:46:10 Originally by: Xiozor There are so many variables in EVE you can't ever say X will best Y every time because of Z because you are leaving out A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V and W. Ever heard the phrase ceteris paribus? thought so. Other things equal more ISK/SP gives you a competitive advantage. In many situations the ceteris paribus assumption does not hold sufficiently to make ISK/SP the primary factor deciding the outcome of a fight but in some cases it does. If you want to play competitively - play StarCraft, Street Fighter, CounterStrike, ..., or even gasp WoW (arena/rated battlegrounds). The competitive aspect in EVE is about "who can organize the largest group of people? who can win & keep the best allies?" - ISK helps in that regard but social skills and RL experience tend to be extremely important, too. EVE you want to view EVE from a more competitive POV it is essentially a RTS that is played with real people instead of computer-controlled units.
Mastertz	Posted - 2011.03.06 16:42:00 - [58] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win This game is better off without you. I can haz your stuff?
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.06 18:01:00 - [59] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 06/03/2011 18:01:34 Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 absolute childish nonsense I have been saying this for a while now.I agree 100% and lost interest in eve as plex was introduced. +1 but don't bother arguing with the fanboys. So, Plex was introduced how many years ago and yet you're still here to bitch and whine at every opportunity about how the game (that you continue to play and by extension, give money to CCP for) isn't what you wish it was? I know your posting style, feel free to go ahead and call me a fanboy for not understanding how all your crybabies can continue to support a game that makes you all so unhappy. I have tried/played a lot of MMOG's and you know what, the minute that I stop enjoying them, I stop playing them and stop paying for them. I don't stick around for years telling everyone how much I dislike it. Strange concept, I know. Anyway, it looks like G0D has finally abandoned us. Until his next emochildragequit post, at least. .
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.06 23:43:00 - [60] Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 06/03/2011 10:50:55 Originally by: Xiozor The competitive aspect in EVE is about "who can organize the largest group of people? who can win & keep the best allies?" - ISK helps in that regard but social skills and RL experience tend to be extremely important, too. You can buy and keep as many allies and pay for as many large groups of people as you want by purchasing ISK for out of game currency and distributing it. So is the competitive aspect of EVE who can buy the most plex? The most basic social skills and RL money can build your empire without you doing much of anything in game. Rent your 0.0 sov buy your friends. Eve is pay to play... yet it has an item mall that gives more of an advantage than I see in every free to play game.

Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.07 04:58:00 - [61] Originally by: G 0 D Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 06/03/2011 10:50:55 Originally by: Xiozor The competitive aspect in EVE is about "who can organize the largest group of people? who can win & keep the best allies?" - ISK helps in that regard but social skills and RL experience tend to be extremely important, too. You can buy and keep as many allies and pay for as many large groups of people as you want by purchasing ISK for out of game currency and distributing it. So is the competitive aspect of EVE who can buy the most plex? The most basic social skills and RL money can build your empire without you doing much of anything in game. Rent your 0.0 sov buy your friends. Eve is pay to play... yet it has an item mall that gives more of an advantage than I see in every free to play game. yet again, further proof that you just "don't get it" and frankly, just want to cry. Please. Be as good as your word. Just quit. .
Smack my hoe	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:22:00 - [62] G O D is a troll just so you guys know :D
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:37:00 - [63] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 07/03/2011 06:37:48 Originally by: Smack my hoe G O D is a troll just so you guys know :D May be a troll but he's right. Theres no need for an item mall in EvE when you can buy anything you want with a credit card already. Question to ask is why are we being charged to play the game and then charged to buy items to compete against other item buyers... double dipping CCP. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.07 07:07:00 - [64] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 07/03/2011 06:37:48 Originally by: Smack my hoe G O D is a troll just so you guys know :D May be a troll but he's right. Theres no need for an item mall in EvE when you can buy anything you want with a credit card already. Question to ask is why are we being charged to play the game and then charged to buy items to compete against other item buyers... double dipping CCP. Because even with PLEX you buy only playtine from CCP. The other stuff you pay isk for is something that other players produce or gather, not something that CCP sell 2prepackaged".
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.07 08:51:00 - [65] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai While I do agree that the whole Plex/GTC for isk and sanctioned character sales is a bad thing. Its not at all for the reasons you posted. I agree there, plex opened a whole can of worms that's ruining eve but ironically I have to sell gtc as I don't have time to grind and pvp. I have limited play time these days so gtcs are perfect for me. I'll only ever buy one a month though and some months I buy none if I don't need replacement ships.
Lynx Australis	Posted - 2011.03.07 09:14:00 - [66] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win ISK just enables you to buy ships and stuff for ships. The idea is not to grind one fat pile of ISK. The idea is to get ISK and spend it on ships.
Winters Chill Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.03.07 10:15:00 - [67] Sad fact, but alot of the best Pvpers I've encountered have been guys that don;t do anything else but pvp and the only way they know how to get cash is to use the GTC system. Yeah "man up and buy a plex".
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.07 12:13:00 - [68] * Firstly, you can't win EVE. * Secondly, I'd like everyone to consider how much your ISK and SP influence PvP fights and your abilities in general, as opposed to "player skill", e.g. knowledge of game mechanics, tactics and such. I'm asking this because I'm playing for a while now and I'm not having the impression that I still have sooooo much to learn and barely can keep up with the skilltraining rate that enables me to fly and fit yet another ship panic. On the contrary. * Thirdly: on the character bazaar you pay around 1 billion ISK per 4 million SP. 1 plex costs $17.50. Let's say 3 plex = 1 billion SP. A 40 million SP character would be around 30 plexes, $525,- That's an affordable price if you have plenty of spare IRL cash; it's not just for the milionaires among us. I actually can imagine people wanting to buy high SP characters. We all know that it takes two years to be able to fit and fly a decent range of ships, why wait if you can afford to pay to have it all instantly and legally? A new player can't fly or fit anything. If you buy a 40 million SP character, you can do a lot. If you add a few billion to your wallet, you're good to go. Who wants to grind an extra 3 weeks to be able fly another ship if you can buy it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.07 12:23:00 - [69] Plex just redirects cash flow from Chinese gold farmers (or whatever) to CCP. The problem of failures of gamers RMTing their way through the game is separate, and largely unsolvable. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
KaarBaak Minmatar The Mighty 13th	Posted - 2011.03.07 12:52:00 - [70] Blech...IMO, buying someone elses character is like buying used underwear. Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories

HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.03.07 13:18:00 - [71] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 06/03/2011 18:01:34 Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 absolute childish nonsense I have been saying this for a while now.I agree 100% and lost interest in eve as plex was introduced. +1 but don't bother arguing with the fanboys. So, Plex was introduced how many years ago and yet you're still here to bitch and whine at every opportunity about how the game (that you continue to play and by extension, give money to CCP for) isn't what you wish it was? I know your posting style, feel free to go ahead and call me a fanboy for not understanding how all your crybabies can continue to support a game that makes you all so unhappy. I have tried/played a lot of MMOG's and you know what, the minute that I stop enjoying them, I stop playing them and stop paying for them. I don't stick around for years telling everyone how much I dislike it. Strange concept, I know. Anyway, it looks like G0D has finally abandoned us. Until his next emochildragequit post, at least. For your information I don't play eve anymore.I train my skills because I can afford to.I do this in the hopes that eve will become the game all believe it to be. As for you..0/10. Random troll you are...very random.
Ramalamadindong	Posted - 2011.03.07 13:31:00 - [72] I never understood all those people that complain about forthcoming microtransactions in Incarna when it's possible to buy SP and Isk for cash already.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.07 13:40:00 - [73] Originally by: Ramalamadindong I never understood all those people that complain about forthcoming microtransactions in Incarna when it's possible to buy SP and Isk for cash already. Agreed. Same for remapping for plex - the few SP you win in a year is nothing compared with buying a high SP for ISK. And arena's - while everyone loves alliance tournaments and the fanfest 4 vs 4 tournament. This community is full of contradictions.
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.07 13:52:00 - [74] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Pesky LaRue Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 06/03/2011 18:01:34 Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 absolute childish nonsense I have been saying this for a while now.I agree 100% and lost interest in eve as plex was introduced. +1 but don't bother arguing with the fanboys. So, Plex was introduced how many years ago and yet you're still here to bitch and whine at every opportunity about how the game (that you continue to play and by extension, give money to CCP for) isn't what you wish it was? I know your posting style, feel free to go ahead and call me a fanboy for not understanding how all your crybabies can continue to support a game that makes you all so unhappy. I have tried/played a lot of MMOG's and you know what, the minute that I stop enjoying them, I stop playing them and stop paying for them. I don't stick around for years telling everyone how much I dislike it. Strange concept, I know. Anyway, it looks like G0D has finally abandoned us. Until his next emochildragequit post, at least. For your information I don't play eve anymore.I train my skills because I can afford to.I do this in the hopes that eve will become the game all believe it to be. As for you..0/10. Random troll you are...very random. "I hate this restaurant so I tell everyone who will listen to my complaints how bad it is, but I still pay for meals but, guess what? I DON'T EAT THEM!" "I hate this magazine, but I still buy it, I even have a stack of them in my bathroom, but I tell you what - I hate it SO much I don't read it - I just buy it hoping it'll get better." Yup, completely fathomable logic there. Keep supporting those that make a product you don't like. Have you thought about getting a CAT scan? Just to check? .
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.03.07 14:14:00 - [75] Edited by: Grimpak on 07/03/2011 14:14:41 this troll is like 11/10 just because so many people have bitten it. beyond that it's pathetic. Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Isk is = Win. Guy with SP and skills and not much isk. Guy with SP and skills and lots of isk. 110% 2nd guy wins every time. Given you can buy SP (characters). Given theres almost no skill in the average PvP encounter. The guy with RL cash will always beat the guy without it. So yeah, EvE is a pay to win game if you want to fork out the cash. actually, no. I'll grab my friends and we'll have a party after we blow up the loot pi±ata that is the poor sod's ship. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.07 14:42:00 - [76] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Ramalamadindong I never understood all those people that complain about forthcoming microtransactions in Incarna when it's possible to buy SP and Isk for cash already. Agreed. Same for remapping for plex - the few SP you win in a year is nothing compared with buying a high SP for ISK. And arena's - while everyone loves alliance tournaments and the fanfest 4 vs 4 tournament. This community is full of contradictions. There are no contradictions there if you actually understand the issues. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.07 14:55:00 - [77] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 07/03/2011 15:02:10 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Ramalamadindong I never understood all those people that complain about forthcoming microtransactions in Incarna when it's possible to buy SP and Isk for cash already. Agreed. Same for remapping for plex - the few SP you win in a year is nothing compared with buying a high SP for ISK. And arena's - while everyone loves alliance tournaments and the fanfest 4 vs 4 tournament. This community is full of contradictions. There are no contradictions there if you actually understand the issues. Oh so it's "Jen doesn't understand the issues" now, without any further explanation? What about "There are contradictions there if you actually understand the issues."?
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.03.07 15:16:00 - [78] Originally by: Pesky LaRue "I hate this magazine, but I still buy it, I even have a stack of them in my bathroom, but I tell you what - I hate it SO much I don't read it - I just buy it hoping it'll get better." Yup, completely fathomable logic there. Keep supporting those that make a product you don't like. Have you thought about getting a CAT scan? Just to check? You ever think about getting a life?Instead of trolling a forum in which no one cares you even exist. I said I lost interest with the introduction of plex,not that I didn't like eve. This is my opinion and if you don't like it..tough ****.You add nothing to this thread but an attemt to get at me in which fail,just like in everything else im sure. But don't worry you can always buy plex and pretend that you can play.Thats why its there for people who rode the small bus to school. Also..you mad bro?
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.07 15:21:00 - [79] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Pesky LaRue "I hate this magazine, but I still buy it, I even have a stack of them in my bathroom, but I tell you what - I hate it SO much I don't read it - I just buy it hoping it'll get better." Yup, completely fathomable logic there. Keep supporting those that make a product you don't like. Have you thought about getting a CAT scan? Just to check? You ever think about getting a life?Instead of trolling a forum in which no one cares you even exist. I said I lost interest with the introduction of plex,not that I didn't like eve. This is my opinion and if you don't like it..tough ****.You add nothing to this thread but an attemt to get at me in which fail,just like in everything else im sure. But don't worry you can always buy plex and pretend that you can play.Thats why its there for people who rode the small bus to school. Also..you mad bro? seriously. CAT scan. you need one. .
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.03.07 15:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Pesky LaRue "I hate this magazine, but I still buy it, I even have a stack of them in my bathroom, but I tell you what - I hate it SO much I don't read it - I just buy it hoping it'll get better." Yup, completely fathomable logic there. Keep supporting those that make a product you don't like. Have you thought about getting a CAT scan? Just to check? You ever think about getting a life?Instead of trolling a forum in which no one cares you even exist. I said I lost interest with the introduction of plex,not that I didn't like eve. This is my opinion and if you don't like it..tough ****.You add nothing to this thread but an attemt to get at me in which fail,just like in everything else im sure. But don't worry you can always buy plex and pretend that you can play.Thats why its there for people who rode the small bus to school. Also..you mad bro? seriously. CAT scan. you need one. seriously. life. you need one.Don't bother sitting ther hitting refresh either because this is the last reply you will get.Be glad anyone payed any attention to you.

Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.07 16:27:00 - [81] Originally by: Jennifer Starling dictions the Incarna Microtransations Vs. Buying Characters/ISK Buying characters and ISK are not microtransations, they simply facilitate the flow of existing SP and ISK between players. The money spent on the PLEX is ultimately used to get gametime, which does not count as a microtransation or RMT. However, Incarna Vanity Item Hell is indeed microtransationing, as the PLEX will be directly used for buying items, i.e. new items will appear in game which can only be acquired by somebody spending actual money. Thus there is a significant difference. Google it if you want more detail. (search "incarna microtransations bad") Remapping for PLEX Vs. Buying a character The above issue also applies here, but we also face the additional issue here of actual quantitative changes to the game. While the Incarna stuff is (for now) only supposed to be superficial, Remaps for PLEX would have magicked extra SP out of nowhere with the application of real money. Whereas, buying a character merely shifts the existing SP around. It's one thing to let real money (via PLEX) buy you someone else's SP, it's quite another for real money to magic new SP into existence. Arenas Vs. Tournaments Do I really have to explain the difference between occasional prearranged matches which occur in normally unreachable space under the supervision of the developers, and a game mechanic which would let every average Joe Carebear evade the consequences of engaging in PvP? Really? - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.07 19:12:00 - [82] Edited by: G 0 D on 07/03/2011 19:12:37 Originally by: Lynx Australis ISK just enables you to buy ships and stuff for ships. The idea is not to grind one fat pile of ISK. The idea is to get ISK and spend it on ships. ISK enables you to buy high skilled characters. ISK enables to buy a faction fit ship that will always win vs the same non faction fit ship. ISK enables you to rent your own sov, start an alliance ect. ISK enables you to always have the best implants, so you gain skill points faster. ISK enables you to hire merc corps to do your bidding. Personally... I'd like to know the people that do these things in game were able to do this because they were good at EVE, not good at making money IRL.
RenoIdo	Posted - 2011.03.08 01:03:00 - [83] Originally by: Crumplecorn Plex just redirects cash flow from Chinese gold farmers (or whatever) to CCP. The problem of failures of gamers RMTing their way through the game is separate, and largely unsolvable. Or the game developers need to spend more subscription money on combating RMT instead of making emo vampire games and console shooters. Why do players get permabanned for RMT in most mmos? - Because it makes the game unfair and ruins the competitive side of the game. I couldn't care less who is selling the ISK, CCP or otherwise when it shouldn't be sold in the first place, and if it is the players should run the risk of being banned.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 01:19:00 - [84] Originally by: RenoIdo Or the game developers need to spend more subscription money on combating RMT instead of making emo vampire games and console shooters. Why do players get permabanned for RMT in most mmos? - Because it makes the game unfair and ruins the competitive side of the game. I couldn't care less who is selling the ISK, CCP or otherwise when it shouldn't be sold in the first place, and if it is the players should run the risk of being banned. Ah yes, the "do what seems right, not what seems effective" approach. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Boonaki Caldari Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative	Posted - 2011.03.08 01:47:00 - [85] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: G 0 D blah blah blah, nothing interesting, clever or new, just more childish drivel. Genuinely - NO ONE CARES. I care.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.08 01:48:00 - [86] Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 08/03/2011 01:52:38 buying isk for cash is a game breaker, it makes the game a lot softer. The economic war where you judge risk to reward based on what damage you think you can do to the enemy is pretty much gone. plex as its used to generate isk basically breaks the risk/reward system and to me anyway was a very bad step for the game to take in terms of becoming far too soft and carebearish. But thats what people want I guess even if I think it makes eve no more difficult then any other game anymore. it used to be a 'hardcore' game, it definatly is not anymore. also, the if you don't like it, quit attitude has been used by both sides - when plex was first introduced because of people crying for it to be included, S-ganking, concorde, warp to zero, and all the other things that people cried about and were told to quit - and now those people are saying the same thing back? ssly. . .obviously som people don't just up and quit because they don't like somthing, they try to change that - and considering the carebear track record - it obviously works. -----------
Cheekyhoe	Posted - 2011.03.08 04:39:00 - [87] You seemly have no idea what eve is. You know that some things that don't require isk and are very important in eve. Some of these things/people are alliance heads, CEOs, FCs, service providers and Cribba. Then there are the spies the thieves and the scammers. Not to mention the bots the RMTers and the Suicide Gankers. I assume your arrogant since you decided a great name for yourself is "G zero D" however I'd suggest you start play eve for something else apart from isk. Also Isk can't buy you love!!!
Jack Freely Merchants Exports Rising Phoenix Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.08 05:01:00 - [88] Sounds like your friend is a winner; please point him to this thread as I need to sell this char as I am quitting eve. Also in a few weeks I will be selling my titan pilot most likely so that will be a char he would want as titans are pure win and he is a winner. After he buys a titan char, he can then buy a titan and just mail PL the name of the char that holds his titan and he normal play time and he will quit eve in a matter of weeks. Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Also industrial are like giant flying pinatas
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.08 05:17:00 - [89] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 08/03/2011 05:25:10 Originally by: HeIIfire11 seriously. life. you need one.Don't bother sitting ther hitting refresh either because this is the last reply you will get.Be glad anyone payed any attention to you. Oh, I was thrilled to get attention from a whining spaz who is paying to not play a game he lost interest in but still really loves yet can't stop complaining about. Made my day. I'd ask you for a list of the other things in life that you cry constantly about and yet still feel compelled to pay for, but apparently you're not going to put together anymore badly worded retorts so I guess we'll never have that moment of bliss. Originally by: HeIIfire11 But don't worry you can always buy plex and pretend that you can play oh, and fwiw, I don't buy plex but I could care less if others feel they need to do so to get a leg up. But, good try. Really, very well done. .
Clair Bear Ursine Research and Production	Posted - 2011.03.08 05:50:00 - [90] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Matalino ISK != WIN Furthermore, ISK + SP != WIN Depends on how you keep score, now doesn't it? Some people play for killmails, some play for large numbers in their wallets, and others play just to stare at rocks. ISK is about the closest we have to a score. While a few billion ISK is far from win a few trillion is a whole different story. At that point losses utterly cease to matter and you can do pretty much anything you WANT in the game. I'd say with a great amount of confidence being a multi-trillionare is as close as you can get to winning eve without being a dev. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?

wh hunter kellar	Posted - 2011.03.08 06:20:00 - [91] dear G 0 D, congratulations! everyone is human. every single player in eve had to pay the trial fee to play and then subscribe to be able to train those nice shiny ships. whether on not those super alliances have those world famous bots mining the abc's and mercoxit to death, is beyond my control. and if you were in a real corp with some good sov territory, you could do those anamolies and make over 100 million a day if you knew how to fit a ship and kill the rats. You could get killer escalations and get a 10 of 10 one and get a pirate bs bpc worth over 700 million or the famous Xl shield boosters worth close to a billion or more than a billion if someone wants it that bad. If your friend wants to spend his/her hard earned money to buy plexes and sell them for isk, let them do it. It's a free world, they can spend it any way they chooses since he/she worked their ass off for it. if you can't stand it because some people do what your friend does or others use their skills to make millions and billions, you had better go back to console gaming. or better yet, go play fps where you gain weapons thru leveling up with experience points and it doesn't cost real money to get them. people that have their original characters from the start have my upmost respect for sticking with eve. But the ones who buy their characters are doing it because they want to have fun now while maybe training their rookie pilot up to one day be like their purchased character. it's a free world and if they choose to spend hard earned cash to play, the more power to them. BTw, if you ever told me that I couldn't spend my rl money on game I choose to do that to, I'd tell you to sthu and get lost. with friends like you, I want and need enemies in eve. And lastly, don't name yourself G 0 D,unless you plan on training up to play like one. give some else your stuff or better yet, donate it to Goonwill.
wh hunter kellar	Posted - 2011.03.08 06:29:00 - [92] OH G 0 D, one more thing. just to show how bright people are in eve. pay someone isk because your lazy fat character's ass can't scan down wormholes which are free. I see so many dumb people paying these bozos isk for a soon to be populated wormhole. to all these bozos selling wormholes to these lazy clowns: i'm going to locate your butts, send one of my 4 dozen alts to find you. then I'm going to make a bookmark of your so-called private worm hole and give them away free to local. you people buying wormholes are alot dumber than a box of rocks. learn to scan and get off your lazy butts because I'm coming to pod you clowns. long live the goons
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia	Posted - 2011.03.08 06:55:00 - [93] Posting in a troll thread. Even if you have 1 trillion ISK that's like $44,000 US if you could convert backwards with PLEX. $44k is nothing to sneeze at but it hardly makes you someone who has "loads of cash." What your friend bought, 5 PLEX or like $80, is hardly a large sum of money in the bigger scheme of things. On a 30k/year income this is about 5 hours of work. Why would you ever do "work" like mining in EVE when you could just get a real job?
Lokaas	Posted - 2011.03.08 07:21:00 - [94] Edited by: Lokaas on 08/03/2011 07:21:58 Edited by: Lokaas on 08/03/2011 07:21:47 Some people are high schoolers who have time to grind and don't have a real job. They play with their parent's money. Others of us are older, have a real job and have a family. We don't have time to grind and earned the right to buy what we want to play when we want. What's the problem? If you play golf and have earned real money then you have the privilege of spending $500+ on one golf club. Golf is a hobby so is this game. It's for fun, not profit. If you are in high school and do not come from a rich family then you don't get daddy's Beamer. You get the used Yugo and make do. EVE isn't a destination, it's a journey.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 09:45:00 - [95] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/03/2011 09:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn Incarna Microtransations Vs. Buying Characters/ISK Buying characters and ISK are not microtransations, they simply facilitate the flow of existing SP and ISK between players. The money spent on the PLEX is ultimately used to get gametime, which does not count as a microtransation or RMT. However, Incarna Vanity Item Hell is indeed microtransationing, as the PLEX will be directly used for buying items, i.e. new items will appear in game which can only be acquired by somebody spending actual money. Thus there is a significant difference. Google it if you want more detail. (search "incarna microtransations bad") I don't know who you think you're fooling but it's definitely not me. Person A pays 600 euros and get a 40 million SP character and 10 billion ISK. Call it any name you want but the fact that there's a whole complex mechanism underneath it still doesn't change the fact that in the end it still comes down to "you pay money and get ISK and SP". You don't want to call it a microtransaction, fine. I do. Quote: Remapping for PLEX Vs. Buying a character The above issue also applies here, but we also face the additional issue here of actual quantitative changes to the game. While the Incarna stuff is (for now) only supposed to be superficial, Remaps for PLEX would have magicked extra SP out of nowhere with the application of real money. Whereas, buying a character merely shifts the existing SP around. It's one thing to let real money (via PLEX) buy you someone else's SP, it's quite another for real money to magic new SP into existence. 1. Remaps don't create any SP, they make the aquisition slightly faster, like learning implants. 2. Effectively, the fact remains that you can buy (someone else's) SP with RL money. And what's the 1 million SP you get on a yearly basis from an extra remap compared to 60 million SP you buy intstantly? 3. So you're ok if I transfer the SP from my alt to my main - after all it's just "shifted" SP? Quote: Arenas Vs. Tournaments Do I really have to explain the difference between occasional prearranged matches which occur in normally unreachable space under the supervision of the developers, and a game mechanic which would let every average Joe Carebear evade the consequences of engaging in PvP? Really? 1. Average Joe doesn't evade any consequences, he still loses his ship in arenas. 2. "Under supervision of the developers" suddenly makes everything ok? That's a very flawed argument. If you see the popularity of those matches it's clear that it would appeal to a lot of players. As you still lose your ships there's no difference between that and the current PvP mechanisms - except that you can instantly find matches and that you're guaranteed you have a chance. If you don't like it, don't do it. It will definitely boost the economy and fun for a lot of players.
Xavier Isaacson Minmatar Surface Detail	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:11:00 - [96] Even trillions of isk cannot make a good pilot out of an idiot. ISK, SP and faction gear make little to no difference. A player with no experience but thousands of dollars to spend on isk, characters and gear, will still lose to someone with less SP and in a poorer fitted ship as long as that person has a better understanding of the mechanics of the game. So while large sums of isk CAN be an advantage, it isnt the total "I WIN" button some of you seem to think it is. Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:16:00 - [97] Originally by: Xavier Isaacson Even trillions of isk cannot make a good pilot out of an idiot. ISK, SP and faction gear make little to no difference. A player with no experience but thousands of dollars to spend on isk, characters and gear, will still lose to someone with less SP and in a poorer fitted ship as long as that person has a better understanding of the mechanics of the game. So while large sums of isk CAN be an advantage, it isnt the total "I WIN" button some of you seem to think it is. I agree but that's not likely to be the most probably scenario. If you start EVE you're totally blank but you can learn pretty quickly. I think most people aren't idiots, EVE is complex but not all that complicated. Just join a good corp and read the forums and practice a lot and you'll be up to par in a few months. And no, an average player won't risk deadspace gear worth billions in PvP. On the other hand, just being able to fly a variety of ships at all takes years, SP wise. Grinding to pay for them takes a long time as well. Buying a high SP character at least enables you to fight other people on equal terms, skills wise.
Xavier Isaacson Minmatar Surface Detail	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:30:00 - [98] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Xavier Isaacson Even trillions of isk cannot make a good pilot out of an idiot. ISK, SP and faction gear make little to no difference. A player with no experience but thousands of dollars to spend on isk, characters and gear, will still lose to someone with less SP and in a poorer fitted ship as long as that person has a better understanding of the mechanics of the game. So while large sums of isk CAN be an advantage, it isnt the total "I WIN" button some of you seem to think it is. I agree but that's not likely to be the most probably scenario. If you start EVE you're totally blank but you can learn pretty quickly. I think most people aren't idiots, EVE is complex but not all that complicated. Just join a good corp and read the forums and practice a lot and you'll be up to par in a few months. And no, an average player won't risk deadspace gear worth billions in PvP. On the other hand, just being able to fly a variety of ships at all takes years, SP wise. Grinding to pay for them takes a long time as well. Buying a high SP character at least enables you to fight other people on equal terms, skills wise. Again, my point is being missed. Just because player A has the same skills as player B, if player A purchased his/her toon, then the chances of them losing are vastly increased. Having the skills, and knowing how to apply them are two completely different things. Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
Lise Kahel	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:31:00 - [99] Buying ISK can be problematic in the lower SP population, but 0.0 has equalizing properties. Spending billions on your Tengu just makes the 5 guys that came by roaming and found you in your anom happy with the loot. Grinding L4's? Come on, you're wasting precious SP on useless Empire affairs; e.g. you've passed under the curve and are indeed an idiot.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:33:00 - [100] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Person A pays 600 euros and get a 40 million SP character and 10 billion ISK. Call it any name you want but the fact that there's a whole complex mechanism underneath it still doesn't change the fact that in the end it still comes down to "you pay money and get ISK and SP". You don't want to call it a microtransaction, fine. I do. You can decide to call it a rollerskate if you like and you would be just as wrong as calling it a microtransaction. Go look up the definition for the word. Either that or you seriously consider $600+ a "Microtransaction". Also, what is inherently "wrong" with purchasing a character? After all the guy/gal could just have easily spent those $600 over numerous years training up the same character. Originally by: Jennifer Starling 1. Average Joe doesn't evade any consequences, he still loses his ship in arenas. 2. "Under supervision of the developers" suddenly makes everything ok? That's a very flawed argument. If you see the popularity of those matches it's clear that it would appeal to a lot of players. As you still lose your ships there's no difference between that and the current PvP mechanisms - except that you can instantly find matches and that you're guaranteed you have a chance. If you don't like it, don't do it. It will definitely boost the economy and fun for a lot of players. I think you totally missed crumplecorns point there. He is saying that if arenas were introduced as the only place for people to pvp, then average joe would indeed be able to avoid certain major aspects of the game. You seem to think that it would be a boost to the market to have pvp arenas which, quite frankly, is stupid. How many tens of billions of isk do you think is spent every day on the market by people replacing their ship because they got ganked unexpectedly? Now imagine how many tens of billions would be effectively "lost" if pvp became something you could choose not to do. EVE is a cold, harsh and unforgiving place, thats its beauty, take that away and it just becomes WoW in space and that would be an intolerable injustice.

Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:38:00 - [101] Originally by: Lise Kahel Buying ISK can be problematic in the lower SP population, but 0.0 has equalizing properties. Spending billions on your Tengu just makes the 5 guys that came by roaming and found you in your anom happy with the loot. Grinding L4's? Come on, you're wasting precious SP on useless Empire affairs; e.g. you've passed under the curve and are indeed an idiot. First off, buying isk is no more problematic in the lower skillpoint population than in the higher skillpoint population. Afterall, an idiot is an idiot wether they have high skillpoint levels or not. Secondly, grinding missions for whatever reason is a choice, something that makes this game better than any of it rivals. You can do whatever you want, for whatever reason you want. Beliving oneself to be better than someone else because they live in Empire space makes you the idiot im afraid.
Rustynail79	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:47:00 - [102] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win Mate your doing something wrong every 10 days i make a billion just in bounties from L4 mission running and i only started to play eve in July 2010. On top of that ive got manufacturing an alt mining and speculatively hauling for me and all sorts of other income streams. If you want to make really really big isk though for little effort get into station trading. It might take you a week or so to setup but once its setup you only have to check your trades once a day for half an hour and you can literally make billions. Just find stuff that moves in high volumes and buy low and sell high and keep an eye out for things like hulkageddon as that's when you get a massive spike in prices for items. Isk is nothing in this game, IMO what counts is knowledge and intelligence common sense in most cases will do. Combine that and you will create yourself an ever lasting isk fountain and when you don't have the SP you can just buy a character with your isk fountain to compensate. Seriously man im several years behind most players but in another 3 to 4 years im planning on taking over the galaxy muahahahahahhaha muahahahahahhahahaha muahahahahahhahaha. My first act as supreme ruler will be to abolish all isk taxes in game and substitute them for a corpse tax. That way i will be creating a new kind of currency similar to the yard stick used in medieval England for hundreds of years. p.s. Dont mine for 8 hours a day for months on your own as it will send you a bit daft in the head ;-P
Renan Ruivo Caldari Hipernova Tribal Conclave	Posted - 2011.03.08 11:07:00 - [103] Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 08/03/2011 11:11:46 Lemme help you put things into perspective: 1- Guy doesn't work. He has no money, but he has a ****load of time to play. He grinds day in, day out, night in and night out and makes over 1b in one month (thats a low estimate for a new player, with time to spare and knowlodge of, at least, pve mechanics). With 325m he buys himself a plex to keep on playing, and the rest he invests on his own toon. 2- Guy DOES work. He has enough money to pay for a $20 breakfast everyday, but the only time he has available is on weekends, and he has to juggle that time between family, friends, girlfriend and personal entertainment. He pays his game on cc and buys a gtc a month. At the end of the month, both of you have the same amount. Naturally, there are those (crazy if you ask me) who buy 25 plexes just to stuff his/her wallet. But, on the other side of the coin, there are those who runs anomalies in nightmares against sanshas or blood raiders and can easelly make 1b a day if one is so inclined. And generally, whoever can do that WILL be inclined to do that. So, is it fair that said person has enough stamina to do that and you dont? I sit in between. I do play on week days, but i only have a couple of hours to do so. However, i use that nightmare to make 1b every weekend (2 days worth of pve grinding). So, if anything, i laught at those who spend money on ISK. I'd rather spend it on pizza. ____________ I like woman because breasts
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.03.08 11:36:00 - [104] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Also, what is inherently "wrong" with purchasing a character? After all the guy/gal could just have easily spent those $600 over numerous years training up the same character. I don't speak for Jennifer Starling, but I for one don't think purchasing a character is "wrong" any more than a neural remap for PLEX would be "wrong". I'm in the same camp as Jennifer though: I don't see that "PLEX for remap" is a microtransaction any more or less than "ISK for character" is a microtransaction. Ç15 for a remap is not a "micro" transaction, IMHO. Visa defines "microtransaction" as "under $20" while Paypal defines a microtransaction as "under $15." Some other people define "microtransactions" as "under $1" - it is this definition which was originally raised in "buying items in games" circles. LOTRO charges $49.99 for 5000 "Turbine Points" (TP) which are then redeemed for goods in the store. Good might include consumables such as food for 80TP, which is about $0.80. That is clearly a "microtransaction". Semantics about microtransactions aside, both forms of transaction (PLEX for Remap, or Buy a Character) can be accomplished using in-game ISK. Use ISK to buy PLEX, reverse-redeem PLEX, use PLEX to remap. Or use ingame ISK directly to purchase a character. Neither of these mechanisms involves the player doing the purchasing actually paying real money. Are they still "microtransactions" when the buyer doesn't pay real dollars for the item or service? Originally by: Aeronwen Carys ... if arenas were introduced as the only place for people to pvp Has anyone actually seriously suggested installing arenas as a replacement for all PvP in the game? That strawman of yours looks rather contrived. If arenas are introduced as an additional means for combat which allows combatants to have some reassurance that "the system" is preventing the 1v1 frigate fight from escalating into frigate vs 100 supercarriers, this will indeed be a boost to the market. Destruction of items drives industry in EVE. It really is a simple economy: stuff gets blown up, you buy new stuff to replace it and get that blown up too. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 11:40:00 - [105] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Complete and utter ** See, this is why I don't take the time to explain myself on these forums anymore, and instead just condescend to (almost) everyone. Because when people get an explanation and don't like it, all you get back is "wah wah *ing wah I choose to reject reality and substitute it with my own". Yes, shifting ISK/SP/items around and creating them are different. Yes, Remaps create SP. Think it about for just a fraction of a second and you'll see that if they didn't THEY WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING. Quote:* there's no difference between that and the current PvP mechanisms - except that "There's no difference [...] except" - cognitive dissonance much? I should have stuck with "Jen doesn't understand the issues". - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Lise Kahel	Posted - 2011.03.08 11:47:00 - [106] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Secondly, grinding missions for whatever reason is a choice, something that makes this game better than any of it rivals. You can do whatever you want, for whatever reason you want. Beliving oneself to be better than someone else because they live in Empire space makes you the idiot im afraid. Interesting, however part of the argument. I'm just saying that complaining about someone having more ISK, while you don't apply your own SP to a part of the game where said amount of ISK is fairly easy to come by. By choice, fine, but don't complain about something that's a complete and utter non-issue when following the curve that's more SP = more ISK generating capabilities. For example, you need leadership V when entering a 10/10 DED. In short, this dude has made a choice about his playstyle (and I have a fairly strong opinion on this without believing anything) that allows his friends to easily outrank him based on ISK.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 11:57:00 - [107] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/03/2011 12:00:27 Originally by: Crumplecorn See, this is why I don't take the time to explain myself on these forums anymore, and instead just condescend to (almost) everyone. Because when people get an explanation and don't like it, all you get back is "wah wah **ing wah I choose to reject reality and substitute it with my own". Funny, I have the same feeling. Originally by:** Crumplecorn I should have stuck with "Jen doesn't understand the issues". Well if I say "Crumplecorn doesn't understand" - does that make my arguments as valid as yours? Quote: Yes, shifting ISK/SP/items around and creating them are different. Ah well at least it's great that you don't mind me transferring SP from my alt to my main! And you're not denying that someone pays $500 for SP and ISK. The whole issue of course is that people can buy abilities and in-game money for RL money and whether that is desirable. And if buying them from other players or from CCP makes any difference in that. Quote: there's no difference between that and the current PvP mechanisms - except that Originally by: Crumplecorn "There's no difference [...] except" - cognitive dissonance much? Very funny. Still a lot of players would love it and the rest of PvP wouldn't change. If i put an extra mirror on my car, has it changed substantially and am I having problems if I say it's basically the same car? And what's actually the argument against it if I may ask as you haven't given any?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:06:00 - [108] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Ah well at least it's great that you don't mind me transferring SP from my alt to my main! And you're not denying that someone pays $500 for SP and ISK. It's great that you seem to accept two different things are different things. Originally by: Jennifer Starling The whole issue of course is that people can buy abilities and in-game money for RL money and whether that is desirable. And if buying them from other players or from CCP makes any difference in that. My issue is merely whether there is a contradiction in some generally held opinions on the forum. The rights and wrongs of it are irrelevant to me at this time. Quote: Very funny. Still a lot of players would love it and the rest of PvP wouldn't change. Of course not, because nobody would give up on the already failing FFA PvP system and switch to Arena play, right? Right. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:13:00 - [109] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jennifer Starling Ah well at least it's great that you don't mind me transferring SP from my alt to my main! And you're not denying that someone pays $500 for SP and ISK. It's great that you seem to accept two different things are different things. They're both RL money (for plex for ISK) for existing in-game stuff? Quote: Quote: Very funny. Still a lot of players would love it and the rest of PvP wouldn't change. Of course not, because nobody would give up on the already failing FFA PvP system and switch to Arena play, right? Right. It wouldn't surprise me! Nice boost for the economy and player fun I'd say - so why not?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:18:00 - [110] Originally by: Jennifer Starling They're both RL money (for plex for ISK) for existing in-game stuff? The one you didn't mention. Quote: It wouldn't surprise me! Nice boost for the economy and player fun I'd say - so why not? You are really asking why the developers shouldn't undermine one of the fundamental aspects of their own game? I just want to be clear on this. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes

Pyrosomniac Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:20:00 - [111] OP, here is a step by step guide to what you should do. 1) Shut up. See? You're better at this game already!
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:37:00 - [112] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jennifer Starling They're both RL money (for plex for ISK) for existing in-game stuff? The one you didn't mention. Which is ... ? Quote: Quote: It wouldn't surprise me! Nice boost for the economy and player fun I'd say - so why not? You are really asking why the developers shouldn't undermine one of the fundamental aspects of their own game? I just want to be clear on this. Which is? It's not non-consensual PvP because we already have Red vs Blue, FW and other mutual agreed wardecs.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:04:00 - [113] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Which is ... ? Incarna microtransations. The actual microtransactions. Quote: Which is? It's not non-consensual PvP because we already have Red vs Blue, FW and other mutual agreed wardecs. The sandbox of course. Why (aside from increasing subs of course, I mean from a design point of view, why) would the devs want to funnel people out of the big giant scary sandbox where you get hotdropped into a nice little carefully controlled PvP theme park? Because it's more 'fun'. I hear WoW is more 'fun' too. As for RvB, that just shows the sandbox in action now doesn't it. Would never have existed if arenas did. And FW, well that is LOL, I mean, what is FW even supposed to be about? lol - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:19:00 - [114] Originally by: Crumplecorn Quote: Which is? It's not non-consensual PvP because we already have Red vs Blue, FW and other mutual agreed wardecs. The sandbox of course. Why (aside from increasing subs of course, I mean from a design point of view, why) would the devs want to funnel people out of the big giant scary sandbox where you get hotdropped into a nice little carefully controlled PvP theme park? Because it's more 'fun'. I hear WoW is more 'fun' too. As for RvB, that just shows the sandbox in action now doesn't it. Would never have existed if arenas did. And FW, well that is LOL, I mean, what is FW even supposed to be about? lol I have problems with the "sandbox" idea. You can only do as much in a sandbox as the tools you're given. Static missions, NPC corps and standings and LP, PI and mining are just as themeparkish as WoW content. All to the way 0.0 sovereignty, gate and station guns in lowsec and concord work: it's all so arbitrary! But if you say "arena" it's suddenly "non-sandboxish" for a number of players. So no, I don't accept this argument.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:30:00 - [115] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Static missions, NPC corps and standings and LP, PI and mining are just as themeparkish as WoW content. All to the way 0.0 sovereignty, gate and station guns in lowsec and concord work: it's all so arbitrary! Damn right. Which is why we desperately need not to add yet more of this kind of crap into the game. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:17:00 - [116] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/03/2011 14:26:21 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jennifer Starling Static missions, NPC corps and standings and LP, PI and mining are just as themeparkish as WoW content. All to the way 0.0 sovereignty, gate and station guns in lowsec and concord work: it's all so arbitrary! Damn right. Which is why we desperately need not to add yet more of this kind of crap into the game. Well a sandbox is primarily like real life: humans made a whole civilization basically out of nothing and nowhere. A good sandbox game tries to s(t)imulate that, let the players determine what's in it with total freedom and leave God's influence (CCP) out of the picture as much as possible. But IRL you can have tournaments and arenas, the romans build them, the medieval knights used them we have all kinds of sports now. So yes, a sandbox (and what better example than real life would you want) could cater things like organized equal team confined space fights. IF we had the tools to make it so! But we don't - every sandbox game is limited by its tools, and EVE is no better/worse. If I made a post on the EVE forums "come and play 1 vs 1 tournaments" it's not more or less sandbox as when I do it in WoW. The sandbox just doesn't have any tools to make it happen. Basically everything that's restricted by game mechanics happens because the sandbox tools are insufficient to enable players to make it for themselves. The question shouldn't be "does it belong in EVE" but "can we make it with the tools we're given". The less we can make, the more limited the tools actually are and the less it's actually a sandbox. Because a sandbox has no limitations. So yes I want my arenas.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:28:00 - [117] Originally by: Jennifer Starling So yes I want my arenas. You make a big post about people doing things for themselves and sandboxes, and then request that CCP add it as a game feature like missions. You are right that the more restricted parts of the game are so because we can't do it ourselves - missions, PI, etc. But we can already do PvP. We don't need an 'alternate PvP' for people who don't like the state of the sandbox any more than we need an 'alternate market' for people who don't like 0.01 ISK games. You may as well say "Hey, players can't make PvP lossless, CCP should add that option in". - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:30:00 - [118] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/03/2011 15:37:56 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jennifer Starling So yes I want my arenas. You make a big post about people doing things for themselves and sandboxes, and then request that CCP add it as a game feature like missions. You are right that the more restricted parts of the game are so because we can't do it ourselves - missions, PI, etc. But we can already do PvP. We don't need an 'alternate PvP' for people who don't like the state of the sandbox any more than we need an 'alternate market' for people who don't like 0.01 ISK games. You may as well say "Hey, players can't make PvP lossless, CCP should add that option in". You misunderstand me, I hope not deliberately. I want tools to make an arena and arena mechanics myself. Quote: "we can already do PvP. We don't need an 'alternate PvP' for people who don't like the state of the sandbox" "we" .. speak for yourself! You mean: "I don't want an extra PvP option for people who want more versatile gameplay even if it stimulates the economy and would make people have more fun in EVE". If you don't want to do it, don't. But what if others want to do it? Should it be forbidden because it's not your personal cup of tea? How does it affect you anyway?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:42:00 - [119] Originally by: Jennifer Starling You misunderstand me, I hope not deliberately. I want tools to make an arena and arena mechanics myself. Where else have I seen recently someone asking for the ability to modify the game itself? I can't remember, but the two of you go off and enjoy your pipe dream. Originally by: Jennifer Starling wah wah wah more people will have fun WoW has, what, 12 million subscribers? Any argument based on 'more people will find it more fun' essentially comes down to 'make EVE into WoW'. How does it effect me? I like EVE, not WoW. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:55:00 - [120] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jennifer Starling You misunderstand me, I hope not deliberately. I want tools to make an arena and arena mechanics myself. Where else have I seen recently someone asking for the ability to modify the game itself? I can't remember, but the two of you go off and enjoy your pipe dream. Well what do you want, tools to change and make and change the world or not? Because that's what a sandbox means. Quote: Originally by: Jennifer Starling wah wah wah more people will have fun WoW has, what, 12 million subscribers? Any argument based on 'more people will find it more fun' essentially comes down to 'make EVE into WoW'. How does it effect me? I like EVE, not WoW. You realise you're basically saying that WoW is fun and EVE isn't? If EVE's a sandbox, a real sandbox, it should enable the possibility of arenas. If it doesn't, it's not a real sandbox and actually just limits instead of enables players. Sandbox = limitless possibilities, theme park = limited options - so basically you want a theme park with just the options you like. It's ok, just be honest about it and admit it you don't really want a real sandbox. Just say "not in my theme park!!" Like the real world sandbox: lots of options, but if you don't like some, it doesn't mean they shouldn't be there.

Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:07:00 - [121] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Well what do you want, tools to change and make and change the world or not? Because that's what a sandbox means. As I pointed out in that other thread, a sandbox is still a sandbox if you can't design a new spade. Originally by: Jennifer Starling You realise you're basically saying that WoW is fun and EVE isn't? Yes, most people would agree with that statement. EVE ~~exists~~ existed specifically to cater to people who ~~don't~~ didn't like the usual stuff. Originally by: Jennifer Starling If EVE's a sandbox, a real sandbox, it should enable the possibility of arenas. If it doesn't, it's not a real sandbox and actually just limits instead of enables players. Sandbox = limitless possibilities, theme park = limited options - so basically you want a theme park with just the options you like. It's ok, just be honest about it and admit it you don't really want a real sandbox. Just say "not in my theme park!!" Like the real world sandbox: lots of options, but if you don't like some, it doesn't mean they shouldn't be there. The possibility is there. Go do it. But you are asking for another ride to be added to a theme park. You wave your arms around about being able to DO ANYTHING (see also: Peter Molyneux), but it ultimately comes back to wanting a specific game mechanic which regulates the behaviour of the players, because you don't like the lack of regulatory mechanics in the sandbox we currently have. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Tasha Baxter Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:11:00 - [122] Edited by: Tasha Baxter on 08/03/2011 16:16:43 Originally by: G 0 D Originally by: Xelena Shellar Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:11:41 I have recently quit EVE because my friend with loads of cash IRL started playing and it became apparent to me this game is not competetive at all. The day he first logged in he bought 5 plex's and had more isk than I had made in my year and a half grinding missions and playing. If everyone can Pay to win as much as they want, where is the competetive aspect to this game that every other p2p mmo has? At least in other games when you buy in game currency for real money you run the risk of getting your accounts banned. Not to mention anyone with IRL cash can buy all the high skilled characters then want through CCP's hands as well. SP for $$ ISK for $$ --------- Pay to win Basically, you're a small fry in the grand scheme of things. I have no problem being a "small fry." What I do have a problem with is that everyone with RL money to spare can be a BIG FRY. Personally I play mmo's for the competetive aspect. I don't care if I blow up someones ship and they can spend 30$ and buy 100 more. SNIPED You see, I'd love if a victim of mine was spending RL cash to recoup losses I inflicted, I'd lol. ISK isn't the ENDGAME of EVE. Also cry moar.
THE DEVlL	Posted - 2011.03.08 23:20:00 - [123] Originally by: RenoIdo Why do players get permabanned for RMT in most mmos? - Because it makes the game unfair and ruins the competitive side of the game. I couldn't care less who is selling the ISK, CCP or otherwise when it shouldn't be sold in the first place, and if it is the players should run the risk of being banned. THIS.
Rguy Amphal	Posted - 2011.03.08 23:31:00 - [124] Edited by: Rguy Amphal on 08/03/2011 23:30:47 Originally by: RenoIdo Because it makes the game unfair and ruins the competitive side of the game. Ok, let's make the game FAIR: To build a really fair and competitive game, we shouldn't be allowed to play more than 1h/day from monday to friday, 2h/day on weekends because that's the average time of playing time I have. Expending more playing time than me is unfair and ruins the competitive side of the game. I demand that CCP closes its server when I'm not online. I'll start some whining threads about it.
Theodoric Darkwind Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.08 23:31:00 - [125] So your friend has a lot of isk and no SP to really do anything with said isk. Bet he gets bored fast when he realizes its going to be months before he can fly those shiny and expensive faction and T2 ships
Clair Bear Ursine Research and Production	Posted - 2011.03.09 04:32:00 - [126] Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind So your friend has a lot of isk and no SP to really do anything with said isk. Bet he gets bored fast when he realizes its going to be months before he can fly those shiny and expensive faction and T2 ships If only it were possible to exchange ISK for a character with the SP to fly those shiny ships... Me, I've got probably 200 million SP worth of characters across an account or four, and rarely if ever undocked all of last year. There's more fun stuff to do with ISK than right click and wait. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.09 04:36:00 - [127] Money makes money. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.09 06:12:00 - [128] Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind So your friend has a lot of isk and no SP to really do anything with said isk. Bet he gets bored fast when he realizes its going to be months before he can fly those shiny and expensive faction and T2 ships Well for someone who plays a decent number of hours a day on average with two accounts, I recognize this problem. After a few months I already had made a few billion with missions, mining and trading and up to this day I still can't fly half the ships I bought from the money I made then. A number of them are still gathering dust in their hangars. In a way it's kind of sad. How are you supposed to learn the game if you can't fly the ships for over a year?
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.09 06:16:00 - [129] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind So your friend has a lot of isk and no SP to really do anything with said isk. Bet he gets bored fast when he realizes its going to be months before he can fly those shiny and expensive faction and T2 ships Well for someone who plays a decent number of hours a day on average with two accounts, I recognize this problem. After a few months I already had made a few billion with missions, mining and trading and up to this day I still can't fly half the ships I bought from the money I made then. A number of them are still gathering dust in their hangars. In a way it's kind of sad. How are you supposed to learn the game if you can't fly the ships for over a year? You feel it takes T2 ships to learn the game? Kind of like how it takes a Mazaratti to learn to drive? .
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.09 06:33:00 - [130] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Jennifer Starling In a way it's kind of sad. How are you supposed to learn the game if you can't fly the ships for over a year? You feel it takes T2 ships to learn the game? Kind of like how it takes a Mazaratti to learn to drive? No, but you need to be able to fly different ships and also to fit them decently to be able to know how its true potential. Even if you can fly a t1 cruiser, it's hardly the same if you have 1 million SP or 20 million relevant SP. Look at the newbie forums, I can do L3s in a ship that gets them into trouble in L2s. When I got my 1st Tengu I was quite afraid I'd make a silly mistake and lose it in L4 missions as I never had an easy time flying battleships in L4s, frequently running out of cap boosters and warping out a lot when I had low skills. So when I finally tried the Tengu (I did a lot of support skills 1st) I found out I could finish most of them with 85% shield and I never even had to use my shield booster. Some things you only learn when you experience them. And while IRL you never need to drive a Porsche, in EVE it's very handy to know all the ships' strenghths and weaknesses by experience. And it definitely takes far longer to be able to get that experience (e.g. get enough SP) than to buy them. I really can imagine people buying high SP characters because earning ISK and learning how to fit and fly ships is way faster than to get enough SP from scratch to fly them, it takes ages.



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.