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Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.03.05 07:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Randlak Mocking the mentally disabled is reprehensible. We're sorry, we'll leave you alone from now on. Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
khai88	Posted - 2011.03.05 07:25:00 - [32] After month of look at MD i found that BSAC forum topic have the biggest flame. Was it Jealousy that IF BSAC was a scam it will be the biggest of EVE history 700b + or thier just want to throll in here, and hell i do believe this bond is truth as compare 100b to 700b scam no point scam 100b when you can scam more right (PS i was on of the investor in BASC and i thruth them fully )
Randlak	Posted - 2011.03.05 07:44:00 - [33] Originally by: khai88 After month of look at MD i found that BSAC forum topic have the biggest flame. Was it Jealousy that IF BSAC was a scam it will be the biggest of EVE history 700b + or thier just want to throll in here, and hell i do believe this bond is truth as compare 100b to 700b scam no point scam 100b when you can scam more right (PS i was on of the investor in BASC and i thruth them fully ) I think ebank is the biggest.
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.03.05 08:26:00 - [34] Originally by: khai88 After month of look at MD i found that BSAC forum topic have the biggest flame. Was it Jealousy that IF BSAC was a scam it will be the biggest of EVE history 700b + or thier just want to throll in here, and hell i do believe this bond is truth as compare 100b to 700b scam no point scam 100b when you can scam more right (PS i was on of the investor in BASC and i thruth them fully ) Their public investments are not 700 B by my knowledge to correct you there.
Khanid Voltar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:18:00 - [35] Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 05/03/2011 09:25:19 Originally by: Randlak Mocking the mentally disabled is reprehensible. So you are implying that anyone who has invested with BSAC is mentally disabled? I think you need to retract that statement and apologise. Also dont post when drunk m'kay? edit - we all get that you 'think' its a scam. Fair enough, dont invest. Post your concerns constructively as others have (eg RAW) and leave it at that. But the way you are ranting in every one of Blockukx's threads is kinda immature, and certainly you dont see Block flaming your Kalbond threads even though it is very clear you and he bear each other a lot of animosity. Keep it professional.
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Khanid Voltar Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 05/03/2011 09:25:19 Originally by: Randlak Mocking the mentally disabled is reprehensible. So you are implying that anyone who has invested with BSAC is mentally disabled? I think you need to retract that statement and apologise. Also dont post when drunk m'kay? Keep it professional. Yes. No. Yes. I'll think about it. Vote KALRAND for CSM!
RAW23	Posted - 2011.03.05 12:47:00 - [37] I must be a bit hard of understanding so forgive me if the answer to this question is obvious: Why can't this be done entirely internally without asking public investors to risk their isk?
zafonic	Posted - 2011.03.05 12:49:00 - [38] I must say Block you are exhibiting very wierd behaviour. You do/did have some great reputation. It has taken quite a hit with your rigidity and refusal to be more transparent. Now you are starting to act directly as if you are in fact running a huge ponzi scheme. Your posts seem to not even care that it looks terrible. In the history of MD, we need 10B ISk to test code has to be one of the worst statements to get capital EVER. No one can understand the logic behind. Simple maths shows testing code does not reuire a larger sum of money. There is no good reason to require capital to test code. I would love to hear your argument for it.
Khanid Voltar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.03.05 12:57:00 - [39] I must admit Im in the not really sure why camp as well. Is it because you want to test the code against market / share trading dynamics that a simple test couldnt provide?
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.05 15:43:00 - [40] I think people are overreacting. There are really two choices here. a)You think is a scam. Please wait till April 9 before you scream scam. I have run many IPOÆs and Bonds in the past and have always paid on time. b)You donÆt think is a scam. You have a choice of buying the bond at a point where the rate you are getting is acceptable for you. The effective interest rate increases as we approach maturity. For this group of investors IÆm trying to gauge the current ôrisk-freeö interest rate. If you donÆt like my reason for this bond, then donÆt invest. We all know investors will be paid back. Date Effective Rates (30-day yield) 3/5/20112.57% 3/6/20112.65% 3/7/20112.73% 3/8/20112.81% 3/9/20112.90% 3/10/20113.00% 3/11/20113.10% 3/12/20113.21% 3/13/20113.33% 3/14/20113.46% 3/15/20113.60% 3/16/20113.75% 3/17/20113.91% 3/18/20114.09% 3/19/20114.29% 3/20/20114.50% 3/21/20114.74% 3/22/20115.00% 3/23/20115.29% 3/24/20115.63% 3/25/20116.00% 3/26/20116.43% 3/27/20116.92% 3/28/20117.50% 3/29/20118.18% 3/30/20119.00% 3/31/201110.00% 4/1/201111.25% 4/2/201112.86% 4/3/201115.00% 4/4/201118.00% 4/5/201122.50% 4/6/201130.00% 4/7/201145.00% 4/8/201190.00% BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.03.05 15:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Block Ukx We all know investors will be paid back. Proof?
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.05 16:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Block Ukx Date Effective Rates (30-day yield) 3/5/20112.57% 3/6/20112.65% 3/7/20112.73% 3/8/20112.81% 3/9/20112.90% 3/10/20113.00% 3/11/20113.10% 3/12/20113.21% 3/13/20113.33% 3/14/20113.46% 3/15/20113.60% 3/16/20113.75% 3/17/20113.91% 3/18/20114.09% 3/19/20114.29% 3/20/20114.50% 3/21/20114.74% 3/22/20115.00% 3/23/20115.29% 3/24/20115.63% 3/25/20116.00% 3/26/20116.43% 3/27/20116.92% 3/28/20117.50% 3/29/20118.18% 3/30/20119.00% 3/31/201110.00% 4/1/201111.25% 4/2/201112.86% 4/3/201115.00% 4/4/201118.00% 4/5/201122.50% 4/6/201130.00% 4/7/201145.00% 4/8/201190.00% I'm not quite sure where you learned about zero coupon bonds, but that chart makes about zero sense. Vote KALRAND for CSM!
RAW23	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:05:00 - [43] Ok - I think I understand a little more about the structure now. Is this something like an auction whereby time rather than return is the variable? If so, what sort of use can an issuer put bonds like this to if he doesn't know up front how long he will have the isk for and may end up in a position where he has to payout the full interest for, potentially, holding the isk for a single day? What advantages are there to this structure over a more conventional bond?
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:15:00 - [44] Originally by: RAW23 Ok - I think I understand a little more about the structure now. Is this something like an auction whereby time rather than return is the variable? If so, what sort of use can an issuer put bonds like this to if he doesn't know up front how long he will have the isk for and may end up in a position where he has to payout the full interest for, potentially, holding the isk for a single day? What advantages are there to this structure over a more conventional bond? The bond has a fixed maturity date (April 9). It is sort of like an auction, except bonds have a fixed discount price and a fixed face value, and you can buy the bond at any time (if avilable). Currently 1,343 bonds sold and 8,657 available. This bond is mostly for me to test my idea of gauging the "risk-free" interest rate. BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
LeonessDarkpaw	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Block Ukx Date Effective Rates (30-day yield) 3/5/20112.57% 3/6/20112.65% 3/7/20112.73% 3/8/20112.81% 3/9/20112.90% 3/10/20113.00% 3/11/20113.10% 3/12/20113.21% 3/13/20113.33% 3/14/20113.46% 3/15/20113.60% 3/16/20113.75% 3/17/20113.91% 3/18/20114.09% 3/19/20114.29% 3/20/20114.50% 3/21/20114.74% 3/22/20115.00% 3/23/20115.29% 3/24/20115.63% 3/25/20116.00% 3/26/20116.43% 3/27/20116.92% 3/28/20117.50% 3/29/20118.18% 3/30/20119.00% 3/31/201110.00% 4/1/201111.25% 4/2/201112.86% 4/3/201115.00% 4/4/201118.00% 4/5/201122.50% 4/6/201130.00% 4/7/201145.00% 4/8/201190.00% I'm not quite sure where you learned about zero coupon bonds, but that chart makes about zero sense. I am happy you even know about the word "Learned". Maybe you should apply it in the future.
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:58:00 - [46] Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw Originally by: Kalrand I'm not quite sure where you learned about zero coupon bonds, but that chart makes about zero sense. I am happy you even know about the word "Learned". Maybe you should apply it in the future. KalBonds! Now with more learning! They're in the Ivy League of internet space ship investments! Vote KALRAND for CSM!

CCP Zymurgist Gallente C C P	Posted - 2011.03.06 15:37:00 - [47] Thread cleaned of trolling and offtopic posts Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us

Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:36:00 - [48] 5,257 Bonds remaining on a first-come first-serve basis. I forgot to mention that the bond is fully tradable in the Exchange. Best of all, there are no trading fees. BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
khai88	Posted - 2011.03.07 05:39:00 - [49] i don't know this is the right place or not but when is the second set of BSAC IPO listed and when is the dividen coming out
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:53:00 - [50] Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 07/03/2011 06:55:48 Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 07/03/2011 06:54:39 Ok. 1. You state these are "zero coupon bond"? And yet you state an interest rate? Isn't the term "coupon" related to interest rate? Aren't zero coupon bonds those that don't have a set interest rate? Zero coupon bonds are sold at below value and then accrue value over time until they achieve maturity when they finally achieve their listed face value. So for you to sell 1mil isk zero coupon bonds you would have to sell them not at 1mil but below 1mil each. Selling "zero coupon" bonds at face value with a stated interest rate frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand what a "zero coupon" bond is. 2. Why are you trying to calculate the "effective interest rate" of a bond that has a stated interest rate? Since you state the interest rate is 3% ... then isn't the effective interest rate .... 3%? 3. I'm sorry but an unsecured short term bond with no explanation of a business plan and zero indication on what you're going to do with the money to earn the interest rate doesn't seem to be all that peachy of a deal. Really. 3%? Unsecured short term bond? No audit? No business plan? 4. Bonds don't exist within the API or the structure of the eve client. Such investments exist outside of this framework. There is zero logical need for 10bil isk worth of bonds to test anything. Don't you have a test/dev/QA copy of your website code? As has been pointed out by other professional software developers there is no practical need for such amounts. 5. Really this is just incomprehensible. "4/1/2011 11.25% 4/2/2011 12.86% 4/3/2011 15.00% 4/4/2011 18.00% 4/5/2011 22.50% 4/6/2011 30.00% 4/7/2011 45.00% 4/8/2011 90.00%" What precisely is the logic of giving full interest to a bond sold 1 day prior to maturity? If you're selling the bond would you really give full award of interest on a bond sold 1 day prior to maturity? Would you really sell that bond 1 day prior to maturity? And if this is to cover third party transactions, then what are you doing getting involved in that? If Brock Nelson, for examples sake, buys 1 of your "zero coupon" bonds and then sells it to me on 4/8/2011 that has absolutely nothing to do with you or your code. Hopefully Brock Nelson would price the value of the bond appropriately when conducting the sale. But when the bond matures and is presented for redemption whether I buy it from Brock Nelson 1 day prior to maturity or 2 weeks prior should have no bearing on your code or your conduct. At redemption as long as the chain of ownership is proven and complete the bond must be redeemed at full value to the appropriate last owner. ... Nothing you've posted so far has made any sense to me at all. edit: meh, it's late.
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.03.07 07:54:00 - [51] If you really want to gauge the "risk-freeö interest rate, whatever that is, consider that Torn Soul routinely sells out multi-billion bond offerings in hours. She offers 2%.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.07 13:29:00 - [52] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 07/03/2011 13:32:24 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 07/03/2011 13:31:29 Originally by: Zeta Zhul Zero coupon bonds are sold at below value and then accrue value over time until they achieve maturity when they finally achieve their listed face value This is what I have experienced myself with some RL bonds a work colleague asked me to check for him. Originally by: Zeta Zhul What precisely is the logic of giving full interest to a bond sold 1 day prior to maturity? If you're selling the bond would you really give full award of interest on a bond sold 1 day prior to maturity? Would you really sell that bond 1 day prior to maturity? To compound this sencence: the "regular" bonds (I still talk of RL) accrued interest for the current coupon is paid by the aftermarket bond buyer not the issuing institution or the (possible) broker. So, I'd also expect zero coupon bonds to work in a similar way: - Seller puts the bond for sale at market value. - Buyer purchases it and has to pay the accrued interest up to the date of sale, directly to the seller. - The issuing institution pays the coupon at the buyer at full value. So they never get involved by such market transactions between the bonds traders and don't have the administrative burdens. P.S. MD readers will be interested at knowing that involving a broker is THE secondary market or aftermarket. It's incorrect to call MD stuff secondary market like some do; MD bonds usually go directly from issuer to retail consumer. Quote: If you really want to gauge the "risk-freeö interest rate, whatever that is, consider that Torn Soul routinely sells out multi-billion bond offerings in hours. She offers 2%. This quite confirms my estimate of 2% of the EvEBOR (the EvE equivalent of EURIBOR / LIBOR). That'd be the theoretical limit someone would still borrow money to i.e. Tornsoul and above the EBANK 1.5% standard account interest rate of old (which would act as price support). - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Machete Visor	Posted - 2011.03.07 18:53:00 - [53] shakes his head C'mon man, you could not have thought this was a good idea. And the subtly positioning yourself as the 'risk free interest rate' is laughable. You should be paying upwards 50% given the level of unsecured investment you have... maybe 100%.
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.07 20:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Zeta Zhul 1. You state these are "zero coupon bond"? And yet you state an interest rate? Isn't the term "coupon" related to interest rate? Aren't zero coupon bonds those that don't have a set interest rate? Yes, you are correct. I misused the word rate in the OP. I should have said Interest instead of Rate. I edited the OP to reflect this correction. Originally by: Zeta Zhul Zero coupon bonds are sold at below value and then accrue value over time until they achieve maturity when they finally achieve their listed face value. Bonds are being sold at the discounted price of 1 M ISK. Their face value is 1.03 M ISK. Originally by: Zeta Zhul So for you to sell 1mil isk zero coupon bonds you would have to sell them not at 1mil but below 1mil each. Selling "zero coupon" bonds at face value with a stated interest rate frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand what a "zero coupon" bond is. Bonds are being sold at 1 M ISK, and their face value is 1.03 M ISK. So they are being sold below face value. No need to be hostile. Originally by: Zeta Zhul 2. Why are you trying to calculate the "effective interest rate" of a bond that has a stated interest rate? Since you state the interest rate is 3% ... then isn't the effective interest rate .... 3%? Yes, you are correct. I misused the word Rate in the OP. It should have said Interest instead of Rate. I edited the OP to reflect this correction. The interest rate is then the Interest divided by time. Originally by: Zeta Zhul 3. I'm sorry but an unsecured short term bond with no explanation of a business plan and zero indication on what you're going to do with the money to earn the interest rate doesn't seem to be all that peachy of a deal. I donÆt think it is a bad deal when you are guaranteed to get your ISK plus 3% interest on April 9. Originally by: Zeta Zhul Really. 3%? Unsecured short term bond? No audit? No business plan? Current rate for the Cash Reserve is 3% and is completely full (159 B ISK). It would be illogical to start selling bonds above 3%. Originally by: Zeta Zhul 4. Bonds don't exist within the API or the structure of the eve client. Such investments exist outside of this framework. That is correct. There are no tools in eve to administer a bond of this kind, where the bond is fully tradable in real-time. ThatÆs why this bond is administrated in the BSAC Exchange. Originally by: Zeta Zhul There is zero logical need for 10bil isk worth of bonds to test anything. Don't you have a test/dev/QA copy of your website code? As has been pointed out by other professional software developers there is no practical need for such amounts. IÆm not a financial expert, and IÆm not a professional software developer. There are no testers or dev personnel; it is just me. I do my best to ensure everything is working correctly, but mistakes have happened and there have been errors. Marcus Baltar has done an excellent work catching bugs. I am certain that if there are errors, the bond buyers will let me know right away. You could think of this bond as a 3% interest payback for testing the website. With the current market, I felt that 10 B ISK is good size bond that will allow me get a measure of the ôeffective risk-freeö interest rate. BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.07 20:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Zeta Zhul 5. Really this is just incomprehensible... "4/1/2011 11.25% 4/2/2011 12.86% 4/3/2011 15.00% 4/4/2011 18.00% 4/5/2011 22.50% 4/6/2011 30.00% 4/7/2011 45.00% 4/8/2011 90.00%" At purchase time, Effective Rate = 3% * 30 / (number of days to maturity). This assumes you are buying at the discounted price. Originally by: Zeta Zhul What precisely is the logic of giving full interest to a bond sold 1 day prior to maturity? If you're selling the bond would you really give full award of interest on a bond sold 1 day prior to maturity? Would you really sell that bond 1 day prior to maturity? All investors will receive face value independent of trading date. Originally by: Zeta Zhul And if this is to cover third party transactions, then what are you doing getting involved in that? If Brock Nelson, for examples sake, buys 1 of your "zero coupon" bonds and then sells it to me on 4/8/2011 that has absolutely nothing to do with you or your code. Hopefully Brock Nelson would price the value of the bond appropriately when conducting the sale. But when the bond matures and is presented for redemption whether I buy it from Brock Nelson 1 day prior to maturity or 2 weeks prior should have no bearing on your code or your conduct. At redemption as long as the chain of ownership is proven and complete the bond must be redeemed at full value to the appropriate last owner. I think you are misinterpreting the effective rate. It assumes you are buying at the discounted price. Bond holders can trade at what ever price they want, as it would not affect our debt. At maturity we pay 1.03 M ISK per bond. Originally by: Zeta Zhul Nothing you've posted so far has made any sense to me at all. Let see if I can make it simple to understand. 1) Buy bond at discounted price of 1 M ISK. 2) On April 9, you will receive 1.03 M ISK per bond. 5,247 Bonds Left BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2011.03.08 05:50:00 - [56] Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 08/03/2011 05:53:19 "Current rate for the Cash Reserve is 3% and is completely full (159 B ISK). It would be illogical to start selling bonds above 3%. " Wait. You've got 159bil in cash and you're doing a 3% unsecured 30 day bond for 10bil? That makes even less sense than before. I read your replies to each point and I comprehend your answers but the logic of what you're doing frankly escapes me. 1. 300,000,000 isk. That's the interest cost to you to borrow 10bil for 30 days. Or 1 day since you seem to be willing to sell a bond 1 day before redemption. Maybe that's a drop in the bucket. 2. As a professional software developer since 1977 I'd have to advise you that developing on your production website is a seriously bad idea. A dev/QA/testing website is a requirement particularly if you're interested in growing your system. Like Singularity provided by CCP often the dev site will offer new users a "sandbox" to learn in. Copy the existing site to a subdirectory, configure it and clone the database and you're set. 3. shrug if you've got people buying the bonds then more power to you. Personally I generally don't buy bonds or invest in shares and that's worked well for me. In a situation as you describe I'd personally just clone the whole site either in situ or on my laptop and then write either some macros or automated testing scripts. Macros if I want to test out the browser interface and automated testing scripts if I'd rather just test the underlying transactional code. In either case it would be simplicity itself to test and could be done without any major changes to the website. The easiest method would be to host the entire website within a iframe and then manipulate the document object of the website through javascript in the hosting webpage. There is code to ensure that your website cannot be hosted like this and to force a breakout from an iframe but that's just commenting out that portion of your website's code. With some very basic AJAX coding you can set up entire transactional histories in your database and then use those transactions to exercise the website. Or you can simply code a random transaction generator that can log all such actions to a file and then use the file to compare to any server based transaction logs. By accessing your site's document object you can fill in forms, click buttons and navigate from page to page. It's a useful technique. As for the bond issue; none of it makes much sense to me but then that's not required. If you're willing to pay the 300mil isk then that's up to you. If other people are willing to buy in, then that's up to them.
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.09 00:56:00 - [57] Yes, development and testing (by me) takes place on a different location. One thing that you have overlooked is that testing my idea of gauging the ôrisk-freeö interest rate requires live participants as no code can simulate the mood of the investment environment. 5,082 Bonds Available BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Companion Qube Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc	Posted - 2011.03.09 01:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Block Ukx One thing that you have overlooked is that testing my idea of gauging the ôrisk-freeö interest rate requires live participants as no code can simulate the mood of the investment environment. There's your problem - your bond isn't perceived as "risk-free" so it makes any investigation beyond "how much do these people trust me" moot. From someone who already has hundreds of billions of isk a small bond like this doesn't make sense. The offer appears too good to be true hence public perception is of high risk rather than "risk-free." Putting any of your history aside my gut instinct on an offer like this says that it's a scam. I see you filling the entire bond before it matures, most likely on the last day because people are *****s about gauging risk "lol 1 day is less risky than 30... here hold the same amount of money anyway" then you walk with the isk. Hey, if you're bored and you're having fun that's cool too, but man does this ever smell fishy. drunkpoasting best poasting*
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.09 03:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Companion Qube Putting any of your history aside... I think almost five years in the secondary market speaks for itself. Don't forget, this is not my first bond. All previous bonds have been paid on time. BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Misty McGinnity	Posted - 2011.03.09 03:54:00 - [60] Block, why are all of these ppl against you? is it coz english isn't your first language & you are using a translater, thus sounding more defensive/butthurt in each reply? other than the obvious, the investment system is too complex for the layperson to invest in, thus leaving only the nerds posting here to be able to understand it & post negatively (as they "know" better )

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