Its because when I've locked and pointed something no other ECM can get that point off till I'm dead.

ECM can, and it can do it to 4 others if the ecm is from a falcon. It also now has me ****** because I'm pointed and now unable to control range because my web stops functioning.

In small gang ECM shuts everything down, other forms of EW do not. Sensor damps could do it but its hard to get a lock range down to within inside point range.

Er, range? Range can prevent someone from doing anything. Also, my sarcasm is just fine, thanks. Also, I laugh at the people who are stating that 'chance based' ECM is game breaking. The joke is that back in the 'ol days, ECM was *not* chance based. It was simply who had the higher sensor strength. If you sensor strength was higher than the target you where trying to jam, then you perma-jammed them. End of story. Clearly non-chance based is the way to go!

If you do something to ECM, then you'll have to do something to logistic ships as well. By current mechanics, other than blobbing the only true way to counter logistic ships is ECM. Sensor Damps are gimped and are usually not worth using for the purpose. Logistic ships are a force multiplier like ECM and can usually repair far more dps than an equal number of ships can bring. Logistic ships like Guardians are very hard to neut and stop the chain unless you have all the logistic ships in neut range, which is most of the time unlikely.

As a recon 5 falcon pilot, I don't think many of the suggestions in this thread are worthy of serious consideration. But they should be addressed.

First, ECM is chance based, but only to a certain extent. If your jam strength is higher than the target's sensor strength, they are permajammed, and that is the only way. Chance to jam is jam str / sensor str per cycle. The maximum attainable jam strength on a Falcon is in the neighborhood of 15. BCs have sensor strengths in the range of 17-19. Logistics, recons, and T1 BS in the low 20s.

Most ECM ships do NOT focus jams on one ship, thus negating the whole multiple jammers issue because getting caught with no available jammers when enemy reinforcements arrive usually gets you or someone else popped. They cycle jammers until one hits, leaving the rest off. So let's not talk about focusing 4 jammers on one target.

ECM ships are notoriously easy to kill once you get dps on them. Get rid of their ECM defense and they would be pretty useless except as dps decoys.

Reducing the max lockable targets would be pointless. Even 1 lockable target is enough to put dps on the ecm ship. With the maximum lockable targets available to some players in certain ships, they would be completely immune to ECM. Frigates with only a couple targets would still get completely locked out. It wouldn't change anything that neesd to be changed while making certain ships immune to ECM. That would be bad game design.

Splitting scan res and range damping between Gallente and Caldari. There is a reason you don't see Arazu/Lachesis/Keres very much. Range damps are easily countered by speed fits, which are prolific due to speed mechanics reducing dps. Scan res damps are useless vs anything that is smaller than a BS. Also, damps are easily countered by the fairly common sebo, though that is not it's primary use.

Tippia made some interesting comparisons between RL ECM and Eve. Not bragging, but I work on ECM and ECCM for a living. We should be glad that eve ECM does not do some of the things that real ECM does. Otherwise we would have to dock for repairs everytime a strong ECM ship blasted our sensors at close range, thus completely burning them out.

As for how well eve ECM does replicate some RL effects, one method of jamming relies on overwhelming the target's sensors with sensor noise. This relies on knowing which type and frequency of noise to produce. Racial jammers simulate this well. There are lso broadband jammers that broadcast on many frequencies. Multifreqs do this well.

ECCM is an able approximation of boosting one's sensor strength. But if the opposing noise is greater than your ability to discern your signal from the noise, you're still screwed. And you can only broadcast with so much strength, and receive a certain level of signal before your transmitter or receiver burns out.

Another method focuses on providing an EWAR suite with false information. The simplest way of doing this would be a decoy system. Flares and/or chaff can confuse sensors and make you miss. They last for only a limited time. I'd be on board for that. But such systems rely on ammo, and are strictly defensive.

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The easiest way to put a bit of nerf on ECM would be to make a skill that increases one's sensor strength. So easy, yet so effective. Call it "Sensor Integrity"

However, knowing what ECM and ECCM are capable of and why they do the thgns they do, I have to set myself in the HTFU section. ECM is supposed to be unfair. It is supposed to make ti so you cannot function while your enemies bend you over the barrel and ride your ass like a little *****. You are trying to kill your enemy. Why should combat be fair? There is no e-honoure in combat. Why should a simulation be any different? Fit your ECCM. Be glad you have anything at all.

But it's not its only counter, is it? I know you are smart enough to know that, so you are probably just being dishonest, here.

ECM is a great way for lower SP players to pee in the Cheerios of higher SP players, and that's what these gripe threads are all about, end of story.

Yes, but not for the reasons you claim, and my reasons and demonstration of why it's a problem have already been presented. If you want to argue them, do so, or I can only conclude that you agree.

If only there were some way to prevent ECM ships from locking in the first place. Some kind of counter-measure to their electronics.

The maximum attainable jam strength on a Falcon is in the neighborhood of 15.

But, but... the higher SP players put all that time in, they should be able to beat and wail on the newer players without fear of reprisal, because, because... WELL JUST BECAUSE DAMMIT!

The old Tip is being absolutely dishonest here, there is more then one way to counter, Tippia knows this, and is misrepresenting the situation.

It has been presented and we have rejected your claim that it is a problem.

Tippia made some interesting comparisons between RL ECM and Eve. Not bragging, but I work on ECM and ECCM for a living. We should be glad that eve ECM does not do some of the things that real ECM does. Otherwise we would have to dock for repairs everytime a strong ECM ship blasted our sensors at close range, thus completely burning them out.

[GǪ]

Another method focuses on providing an EWAR suite with false information. The simplest way of doing this would be a decoy system. Flares and/or chaff can confuse sensors and make you miss. They last for only a limited time. I'd be on board for that. But such systems rely on ammo, and are strictly defensive.

Electronically, there are countermeasures suites that do this as well. One need not burn out or even blind a receiver to make it miss or lose lock. Give it multiple targets and confuse it. This could be simulated by screwing with the overview as suggested. I wouldn't like to see things removed from the overview. That would be too much like cloaking. But adding things... that sounds interesting. Could create a lot of confusion.

DOH HO HO THAT SLAPS ME ON ZE KNEE. That was a silly thing to say - you can get much stronger falcons.

It's because the basic effect of ECM is simply bad gameplay. Getting killed is never exactly enjoyable, but getting killed while you can just twidle your thumbs and pray for the goddess of RNG to smile on you is just terrible. It just takes too much control and options away from the victim. It doesn't exactly help when the counters, outside of having more people, aren't exactly great against anything else.

This isn't just a problem with EVE though. Similar effects are in many games and in most of them there are game mechanics in place to prevent it from working longer then a few seconds at a time with a temporary immunity provided to the victims afterwards. Even in pen and paper games veteran managers avoid using certain enemies, because a bad roll of dice can make it so, that the players can only sit and watch as they are slowly beaten to death and they can only pray for a good dice roll to be able to do something, as in actually play the game. It has never been a good mechanic in any game and only seems to be workable when you put severe limitations on it's use. Something EVE currently doesn't do, so people will complain until the day such restrictions are put in place or ECM is finally changed to something else.

Any mechanic that is c hance based is flawed because the skills and knowledge of the affected parties becomes irrelevant, that is the problem with ECM.

Not the worst idea for a solution:

ECCM Burst - Breaks any current active (and working) ECM on your ship, maybe an "X" second immunity on top of that? Give it a reasonable cycle time , maybe 1/2 to the same of a standard ECM module. A good ECM pilot can counter by staggering or carefully applying each ECM module. You can still get perma jammed but it requires the ECM pilot to work for it. Plus if there is an immunity attached to it a ship with sufficient mids could potentially make themselves unjammable.

You can still get perma jammed

becouse eve has become cry online

All ppl seem to do is cry nurf this nurf that instead of thinking of counters to a situation

ecm ships are specialised there are other specialised ships to counter them but its easyer to cry to ccp and get spoon fed nurfs

RL comparison to ECM

I strongly recommend you never make this comparison again. I work on that stuff for a living. Any modern jamming system will do its best to literaly burn out your entire sensor suite, thus requiring you to retire from battle entirely and pay a visit to your local friendly maintenance battalion before you can do more than fire a gun straight forward.