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opinions. best non rifter T1 frig.

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jamesira	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:44:00 - [1] So as the title says. I wanna know the best T1 frigate for small scale pvp. Other than the rifter. We all know its a great ship but I want opinions on the other frigs. I currently fly gallente and can T2 fit frig sized stuff. I am gonna go a different route for cruisers and up as I don't like hybrids at all. I am gonna go amarr as I love the way the ships look. But I enjoy frig pvp and want to know the best ship other than the rifter so I can buy a small practice fleet of ships. I can go any race for frigs except for caldari as I don't wanna train missile skills so much. Even though I have been using a drake for a while lol. Sorry I went off my own topic a couple times there. Would I be better off just goin minnie or stay going for amarr? I have about equal weapon skills for all races except I have way better skills for gallente as I can T2 fit small hybrids. But I just don't like the pidgeon hole of up their but for good dps or crap dps anywhere else.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:04:00 - [2] Punisher, Merlin and Kestrel are all great frigates and all surpassed by particular rifter fits. -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Plentath	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:09:00 - [3] Small scale PVP = Minmatar Frigate PVP = Minmatar You'll really limit yourself if you don't want hybrids OR missiles. That leaves you with lasers or projectiles. Most frigs that fit lasers are easily neuted, and do low, and worse, predictable type, DPS. If you're after a frig that owns with projectiles, you're after the Rifter. That, or use a Daredevil for small hyrids, or a Dramiel for small projectiles. For either of those, however, I would recommend practising in a Rifter
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:15:00 - [4] Sorry didnt notice that you didnt want missiles, pity. Punisher is a good frigate, a little slow but can tank which is where its strength is. Incursus has more DPS but melts very quickly Tristan can be a great ship too but you dont want missiles so thats really it. -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:26:00 - [5] Nothing wrong with the Tristan, it's what you seem to have the best fittings and bonuses for at the moment. In the long-term, I'd say go minmatar if you want to do frig combat and don't like/can't figure out hybrids. Amarr is only going to frustrate you even more. More generally, there is no "best ship". Every ship and every fit for that ship in a given size/tier has a scissors to its paper (and a rock is auto-beats, as well). That's how the game works, even at the frigate level. Rifter is the most popular at the moment more because it's hard to screw it up a la the caldari BC, not because it's anything special in power terms when flown by a skilled pilot. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
jamesira	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:27:00 - [6] Well small missiles and small projectiles are fine I just don't plan on getting T2 for missiles after frig sized weapons. And I will be training projectiles as I have better medium projectile skills than hyrbid skills lol. Frig hybrids are fine. I have been flying a comet and get 189 dps out of it before overheat but I have to be up their butt to do 110 of that dps. The other 79 is from drones with it as I can field T2 small and med drones. I figured that the rifter was by far the best bet for frig sized stuff. Now cruiser and up ireall kinda plan using amarr. But then again I haven't really traied any medium laser stuff so I may just stick to getting my minnie skills up
Kneebone Heathens' Harbor	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:35:00 - [7] I've seen AC/Rocket Merlins perform rather well. Also in the hands of a smart and properly skilled pilot the Vigil and Crucifier can be deadly. It could just be that the purpose of your life is to server as a warning to others.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:36:00 - [8] Originally by: jamesira Well small missiles and small projectiles are fine I just don't plan on getting T2 for missiles after frig sized weapons. And I will be training projectiles as I have better medium projectile skills than hyrbid skills lol. Frig hybrids are fine. I have been flying a comet and get 189 dps out of it before overheat but I have to be up their butt to do 110 of that dps. The other 79 is from drones with it as I can field T2 small and med drones. I figured that the rifter was by far the best bet for frig sized stuff. Now cruiser and up ireall kinda plan using amarr. But then again I haven't really traied any medium laser stuff so I may just stick to getting my minnie skills up If you have been using the comet, the hookbill is probably the best non-pirate frigate atm with dual webs and a scram or dual propped with web -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Taurean Eltanin	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:45:00 - [9] Right now I'm learning to pvp in Punishers (you can find my blog about it here, if you are interested), and what I am finding is that they are very skill intensive little ships. Unlike a Rifter, a Punisher reacts to the opponent rather than controling the fight. This is because the Punisher is slow, and has no real ewar ability. It has good cap, though, great range, decent tracking, and an awesome tank. This means that while you are pretty much always able to keep damage on target, your enemy is also able to keep damage on you. That kind of fight turns in to a skill war; who can deal and absorb the most damage. If your gunnery and tanking skills are better, you will probably win. If not... That being said, the Punisher scales much better with increased skills than most frigates, and it also prepares you well for other Amarr ships - the skills you invest in to make the Punisher work will also pay dividends when you move into an Omen or Crusader. If you know you want Amarr long term, go with the Punisher.
equincu ocha Sinners.	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:52:00 - [10] Originally by: jamesira I figured that the rifter was by far the best bet for frig sized stuff. There is no 'by far the best' frig, yes the rifter is a great ship, but I feel that the ac punisher is as good if not better at killing everything but a rifter, and even then a good rifter pilot is going to have a hard time killing a punisher and will most likely just leave. So if your plan is to go amarr, then why not go for the punisher, don't think that it can't compete with minmatar Pirates are mythical creatures, just like unicorns, bigfoot, and kangaroos
rodensteiner Amarr OMGROFLSTOMP	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:57:00 - [11] I would suggest Merlin, Incursus, Tristan Merlin has a slot layout and bonuses that make it pretty sweet for kiting. AB/Scram/Web/MSE with rockets and rails. It won't do a lot of damage, but it's got good range and good tank. Incursus can be a good little facemelter, or a decent kiter with rails. Problem is, it's tricky to fit and you'll end up with little tank. Tristan can be a tough little frig, too. Again, tricky to fit (I seem to run out of CPU) I'm personally not a fan of the Punisher. I don't really care how much it can tank, it's too slow and with two mids doesn't really have the ability to dictate range against much of anything. Any frig with some decent range on its weapons will just kite it to death. _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
Ultim8Evil Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:15:00 - [12] AC Punisher --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Korg Leaf Punisher, Merlin and Kestrel are all great frigates and all surpassed by particular rifter fits. Pretty much in that order. Punishers are my personal fav, good dps/tank...but hard to fit correctaly w/ a point...and most of the time blown up by a good rifter.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:05:00 - [14] Incursus DCU SAR Afterburner Scram Web Ions with Void Hobgoblin Overheating everything and using Keep At Range 1300 you melt other frigs pretty fast with your 220 overloaded dps and you're faster than pretty much every other t1 frig too (except non plated rifters) never orbit though or you wont hit nothing. if you dont mind rockets the Merlin cant be beat also !!
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:30:00 - [15] I know that you mentioned your disinterest in Caldari ships, but the Merlin really is a fantastic frigate. I rate it as just barely under the rifter in terms of effectiveness and versatility. I like mine with blasters, some people prefer rails or autocannons. You mentioned that you already putz around in a Drake, so you already have some missile skills. Training for T2 rockets won't take you very long, but you can always use meta-3s if you don't feel like it. The Arbalest rocket launchers are very overpriced for what they provide. I'm not thrilled with the Punisher because it only has 2 mid slots. It can tank very well for a frigate, but tanking doesn't keep your opponent tackled. The Gallente frigates don't do much for me either. Here's the thing though... It doesn't take long at all to train all of the frigate skills up to 5, same with the small weapons skills. Take two months and train it all up - you'll have a lot of options at your disposal. Then, when you train for assault frigates, or stealth bombers, or whatever... Like magic, you can fly ALL of them. You are now FOTM-proof. - "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object
jamesira	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Andrea Griffin I know that you mentioned your disinterest in Caldari ships, but the Merlin really is a fantastic frigate. I rate it as just barely under the rifter in terms of effectiveness and versatility. I like mine with blasters, some people prefer rails or autocannons. You mentioned that you already putz around in a Drake, so you already have some missile skills. Training for T2 rockets won't take you very long, but you can always use meta-3s if you don't feel like it. The Arbalest rocket launchers are very overpriced for what they provide. I'm not thrilled with the Punisher because it only has 2 mid slots. It can tank very well for a frigate, but tanking doesn't keep your opponent tackled. The Gallente frigates don't do much for me either. Here's the thing though... It doesn't take long at all to train all of the frigate skills up to 5, same with the small weapons skills. Take two months and train it all up - you'll have a lot of options at your disposal. Then, when you train for assault frigates, or stealth bombers, or whatever... Like magic, you can fly ALL of them. You are now FOTM-proof. Yeah I can fly AF's already but have not bought or fitted one yet as I just moved to low sec with a indy full of incursus. But I am so underwhelmed withthem. So I flew back to my highsec home and picked my comet up for ratting duties. It takes out the blood lowsec battleships without really even reaching armor. I do love the comet. As I said I am a few days away from interceptors. I am training evasive manuvers 5 as we speak. I do not mind caldari frigs but I am not a fan of their cruisers and not a fan of gallente cruisers either . From what I hear the rupture is a great ship. What is the comparable amarr ship to a ruppy?. I am pprobably gonna go amarr for the long ruun but am focusing on frigs for now.
jamesira	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:27:00 - [17] And on the subject of the comet verses incursus. It takes about 800 rounds of ammo to take out the blood BS's with the incursus. In my comet it takes maybe 300 max. And the 3 hobo II's take out the non BS rats while I orbit the BS not taking any damge. I love it. I can kill 3 belts worth of rats in the comet in the time it takes me to kill 1 of the BS's in the incursus
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:44:00 - [18] Originally by: jamesira What is the comparable amarr ship to a ruppy?. I am pprobably gonna go amarr for the long ruun but am focusing on frigs for now. The closest thing would be the Omen, since Omen is a gun ship, but unfortunately the Omen is not great for many reasons. CPU and especially PG are extremely tight. Capacitor is an issue - something you can mitigate with a cap booster, but then you have no web so you'll die to any frigate that catches you. Not particularly fast or agile in the first place and if you armor tank it you're a slug. Omen is okay-ish in a gang playing the role of Glass Cannon but not a great solo boat. The few people that bother to fly this ship recommend a shield buffered kiting fit and pray they don't get webbed/scrammed. But hey, if you choose to fly the Omen, who is to say you won't succeed where others have failed? The only other viable T1 Amarr cruiser for PvP is the Arbitrator. Arby is a nice boat for solo and gangs. It has good fitting options, a nice drone bay, eats frigates for breakfast and is competitive with other cruisers. Plus, a flight of ECM drones can get you out of a sticky situation. Amarr has some nice ships but sadly the bulk of them are battleships or T2. Punisher, Arbitrator, Harbinger, that's really it for the T1 line until you get into battleships. - "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object
Phosphofuctokinase 1	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:53:00 - [19] ECM Griffins. Its like a falcon, but for pennies.
Miners Strike Mydas Eye	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:54:00 - [20] I'd cast my vote for the Incursus, but if you're 4 days away from the Ranis then just wait for that, it's a fantastic little ship that you'll have a lot of fun in...
jamesira	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Miners Strike I'd cast my vote for the Incursus, but if you're 4 days away from the Ranis then just wait for that, it's a fantastic little ship that you'll have a lot of fun in... I am looking forward to the ranis. I was aiming for a harbi for my main BC ship. I wanna know what's the bad ass battleship for amarr?? And is there an amarr inty that's worth a crap? I wish I could have all the sp I dumped int AS 4 to transfer to something I will get more use out of . The seeming lack of a role that AS have these days. Why fly an assault ship when an inty seems to be able to do the same thing only better. I am about a month away from flying a harbinger worth a damn. But that's. Also with T2 guns as far as I can remember. And anyone wanna pvp with me I am hanging around in vehan these days I can't remember if its the low sec or if the lowsec I have been roaming is 1 jump from vehan. Been a few days since I logged in while training for inty's. After I finish getting inty 4 I am goin to get started on amarr small turret skills and then get frigs to 5 as I already have it 3.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:36:00 - [22] Originally by: jamesira I wish I could have all the sp I dumped int AS 4 to transfer to something I will get more use out of . But now you can inject the hac skill and fly zealots if you get amarr cruiser to 5. Thats certainly worth the sp time if you are going after a harb. Also get minmatar frigate and small projectiles to 5 asap and fly the jag. Its one of the few af that are worth a damn. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:52:00 - [23] Originally by: jamesira I wanna know what's the bad ass battleship for amarr? And is there an amarr inty that's worth a crap? I wish I could have all the sp I dumped int AS 4 to transfer to something I will get more use out of. The seeming lack of a role that AS have these days. The Armageddon puts out amazing damage, and with Scorch, can project that damage all the way out past long point range. The Apocalypse is one of the best battleship snipers in the game. The Abaddon can field stupid amounts of buffer and still put out good hurt. The Amarr battleships are all nice. As for Interceptors, the Crusader is one of the best combat interceptors and the Malediction is a great tackler. They're both very solid ships in their designated role. As far as assault ships go - they do lack a role, and the Retribution is all but useless. There's just no reason to fly a Retribution. But the Vengeance... The Vengeance is one hell of a heavy tackle, and it isn't all that bad as a solo PvP boat either. Decent damage, nice tank, like a Punisher on steroids. The secret is a Nanofiber to offset its native speed and agility issues. If you're not keen on rockets, you can fit autocannons or (my preference) blasters. I'm also a fan of the Sentinel, but it is not worth flying unless you train EAS up to 5. It's a lot of training for just one ship(unless you plan on flying the Kitsune as well), so I don't recommend it as a skill to casually train. Sentinel is a blast to fly but it's very niche and easy to lose. Amarr pilots don't get the instant gratification that the Winmatar, Caldari, and Gallente pilots get, but once you get nice support skills and train up for the fancy ships you'll never regret it. - "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:54:00 - [24] Put the right pilot in a punisher he is every bit as good as a rifter pilot, you just have to fly them a bit differently. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.08 19:43:00 - [25] Personally, I like the Rifter, Punisher, Merlin, and Rocket Kestrel. I never liked the Incursus, but I hear great things about it. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.03.08 21:18:00 - [26] Originally by: jamesira Is there an Amarr inty that is worth a crap? Yes. I hear lots of good things about the Crusader, never tried it though. The Malediction though, is amazing. Super fast, 100+ dps, huge tank, orbit AFs like Wolfs at 500m and they won't even hit you. Plex fitting it also is amazing, I've got a Gistii B afterburner and a Coreli C repper on mine, fitted with a cap booster. Goes 1600 m/s and tanks like 70 dps. It's almost impossible for cruisers to neut you out. I am in love with that ship :O
Jason W0rthing	Posted - 2011.03.08 23:54:00 - [27] +1 vote for the rocket Kessie. MAPC BCS AB Scram MSE 4x Rocket Launcher 1x EM 2xCDFE Personally I have found I have been able to roflstomp a surprising amount of rifters and merlins with that fit. YMMV Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
Alonzo Harris	Posted - 2011.03.09 02:50:00 - [28] Incursus is VERY good. The thing about frigate PVP is that the pilot who fits T2 range ammo while being able to control range is going to win. Scram+web, keep target at 5km range and all frigs with "stock" faction short range ammo will do crap damage whereas the one with Barrage, Scorch or Null will work just fine. It's the reason I'm not a real fan of the Punisher it lacks a 3rd midslot to truly control range and it's too slow to try it otherwise. So, if you are expecting a frigate fight ALWAYS have T2 range ammo loaded and set your keep at range to 5km or so. Would you run into something bigger it's going to be a long fight anyway and you can decide to switch back to faction, or not.
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.03.09 02:55:00 - [29] +1 for the kestrel. Not heard a bad thing about it since rockets got fixed.
Ard UnjiiGo Meatshield Bastards	Posted - 2011.03.09 02:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Kneebone Also in the hands of a smart and properly skilled pilot the Vigil and Crucifier can be deadly. Ignore this man. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

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