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Drusilla	Posted - 2005.02.03 16:56:00 - [31] If anyone would tkae the time to read my long-ish post a few back and comment I'd aprpeciate feedback on the analysis in it.
Alejandro Zapata	Posted - 2005.02.03 17:58:00 - [32] Quote: The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally. does not equal this... Quote: There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. Come on guys, lets get consistent, it is either one way or the other. So which is it? Is there going to be a multiplier applied to the average time or not? If so then, that is great, when the phook is it going to be fixed? If not, then the setup is BAD. I tear thru Level 3 missions in my assault frigate. But I am a mission *****, peeps should not be punished because I know exactly how to complete the missions as fast as possible. 9 Minutes is INSANE! If the mission is more than a couple of jumps away, to a system without a station or it requires an item returned, someone would be very hard pressed to complete it. I am sure there is some better way to come up with a good bonus time that is standard. Something that takes into account the Quality of agent, # of Spawns, # of Waypoints, and whether it is a roundtrip mission.
Polaris Lumine	Posted - 2005.02.03 20:04:00 - [33] I'm sorry but this is such a bad idea. You are forcing it so that everyone will complete a specific mission, a specific way, in a specific ship, with a specific set up - just because that is known to do the mission pretty much in 'x' mins. Also, you further dissaude mission runners from collecting their loot before returning to their agent. Nobody was complaining with the old method so why on Earth was it changed? It's not like mission runners make millions and millions of isk an hour (certainly not level 3's and below). -- Polaris Lumine
Deepeh	Posted - 2005.02.03 20:58:00 - [34] Originally by: Johnny Atlas A corpy reported that mission bonus times had been reduced. So i started a mish and got this... <snip> Anyone else got this? Any explanation for it? another silent nerf I wish people would stop using the expression "nerf" completely out of context and in absolute irrelevant discussions. Not every tweak to the game dynamics is automatically a "nerf". This is not a "nerf". As for the tweak, I really like it quite frankly. The bonus times are now based on how the 'average joe' does them, and that is something great as far as I'm concerned. Some missions are now tougher to finish in the bonus timespan, and some missions have gotten easier.
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2005.02.03 21:16:00 - [35] Originally by: Drogon if that's true thats crap ... trying to do a LvL 4 kill mission in the hour timelimit solo is nearly impossible as it is anyways. if they reduced it even more then i'll never get the bonus. Did it occur to you that you aren't supposed to be able to do the mission in the bonus time solo? ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:23:00 - [36] I've had a mordus lvl. 4 mission today. Timelimit was 1 1/2 hour. I needed 1 hour with my typhoon (without collecting the cans) and I've only 2 mio SP. A character with more LP will probably be able to do it a lot faster. I can't complain. Some timelimits are shorter and some are longer.
Deepeh	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Snake Jankins I've had a mordus lvl. 4 mission today. Timelimit was 1 1/2 hour. I needed 1 hour with my typhoon (without collecting the cans) and I've only 2 mio SP. A character with more LP will probably be able to do it a lot faster. I can't complain. Some timelimits are shorter and some are longer. I concur. I think most of the people that (rightfully) think that the time limit is too short are picking up the loot cans at the same time they are doing the mission. If I would pick up the loot cans I quite probably wouldn't make it in the bonus timelimit either. So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up - depending on how I feel I get my Crow out and take the named loot with me, or I get my trusty Bestower with overdrives and an afterburner and just scoop it all up.
Kuolematon	Posted - 2005.02.04 08:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Deepeh So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up. Not quite. If you read ALL patch notes, they nerffed THIS too. They are doing it to seriously N.E.R.F mission runners. You have to decide for time bonus OR loot "bonus" for those uber basic items. I'm really wondering why I really bother doing missions because armortanked apoc cannot do 'em _______________________________________________ My opinions aren't my corporations opinions. (\_/) (x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious.
MaximvS	Posted - 2005.02.04 09:09:00 - [39] Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally. I've just gotten Guristas Extravaganza this morning, and it's given me a bonus reward time of 45 minutes. I would love to meet the people who are doing this mission in that time so I can shake their hands! It took 2 of us in Ravens over 3 hours to do it the other day! There was no bonus reward or mission time the other day either. ----------------------------------------------------- Member of STK Scientific [STK-S]. Come see us at http://www.stkscientific.com
Zrakor	Posted - 2005.02.04 10:09:00 - [40] Originally by: MaximvS Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally. I've just gotten Guristas Extravaganza this morning, and it's given me a bonus reward time of 45 minutes. I would love to meet the people who are doing this mission in that time so I can shake their hands! It took 2 of us in Ravens over 3 hours to do it the other day! There was no bonus reward or mission time the other day either. This is a new mission, so it still has a default value. Give it a day or two and the mission will recieve a more sane value.
Zrakor	Posted - 2005.02.04 10:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Kuolematon Originally by: Deepeh So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up. Not quite. If you read ALL patch notes, they nerffed THIS too. They are doing it to seriously N.E.R.F mission runners. You have to decide for time bonus OR loot "bonus" for those uber basic items. I'm really wondering why I really bother doing missions because armortanked apoc cannot do 'em The 'nerfing' of the 'loot after mission completed' routine was a misunderstanding (i.e. the patch notes were misleading on that part). You can still warp back to your bookmark and loot the cans that were left behind after you have completed the mission.
Armi Tage	Posted - 2005.02.04 10:53:00 - [42] Just a thought, but i think that new mission runners are getting the shaft Peeps like me, that do lvl 2 missions in BCs and BS complete them in no time and i do it because i need the standing for higher lvl agents, lvl 4 in my case, because al lvl 3 agents are to far away to set up a new camp atm i'm borking the bonustimes for killmission for lvl 2 mission runners and i'm pretty sure that i'm not alone Angel suprise in 15 minutes? Wich real lvl 2 mission runner that uses a frig can do that? The idea is great but peeps like me that need low-level agents toget to the higher agents make the living very hard for others Also there is the issue with agents near low-sec space, they often send you through that area. Where I live there are quite a few campers, resulting in longer safe-routes. Other agent runnes with only high-sec space around them have an advantage because of that, making it hard for some peeps to get the bonus and I don't want ro relocate a few 100K m¦ of stuff to another area, where I have to settle anew only to avoid that effect. But it really reduces afk-couriermissionrunners, becaus ethey don't get the bonus anymore. And what about insta-completing couriermission because you simply buy the goods you have to transport at the other station. Sometimes you are lucky because you can. In the other instances you loose the bonus because of the aforementioned cases, which reduce the bonustime to much I would guess
Lord Anubis	Posted - 2005.02.04 11:02:00 - [43] Originally by: Armi Tage Just a thought, but i think that new mission runners are getting the shaft Peeps like me, that do lvl 2 missions in BCs and BS complete them in no time and i do it because i need the standing for higher lvl agents, lvl 4 in my case, because al lvl 3 agents are to far away to set up a new camp atm i'm borking the bonustimes for killmission for lvl 2 mission runners and i'm pretty sure that i'm not alone Angel suprise in 15 minutes? Wich real lvl 2 mission runner that uses a frig can do that? The idea is great but peeps like me that need low-level agents toget to the higher agents make the living very hard for others Also there is the issue with agents near low-sec space, they often send you through that area. Where I live there are quite a few campers, resulting in longer safe-routes. Other agent runnes with only high-sec space around them have an advantage because of that, making it hard for some peeps to get the bonus and I don't want ro relocate a few 100K m¦ of stuff to another area, where I have to settle anew only to avoid that effect. But it really reduces afk-couriermissionrunners, becaus ethey don't get the bonus anymore. And what about insta-completing couriermission because you simply buy the goods you have to transport at the other station. Sometimes you are lucky because you can. In the other instances you loose the bonus because of the aforementioned cases, which reduce the bonustime to much I would guess not just that there are some people who do level 3 with a group let alone level 4 this also screws the standalone runner You cant beat Death But you can make the bastard work hard for it wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia
Amaron Ghant	Posted - 2005.02.04 11:25:00 - [44] Mission bonus time is the average now? OK I can live with that. If I miss a bonus, theres always the next mission :) Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!! Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner
Uhlan	Posted - 2005.02.04 11:58:00 - [45] Courier mission. Seven (7) jumps one way. Item to be carried from home station. Bonus time of 16 minutes. I had 5 book marks, and still couldn't complete in the bonus time. (and for you forum trolls, Duh! route was the shortest possible and I confirm that there was no shorter path.) I understand the concept of making the bonus time adjust to the actual mission. BUT, your mission generator is complex and it selects different routes of different lengths for different agents. Perhaps you should consider the length of the mission, but that is probably much too complicated and perhaps the simplest is a minimum of 30 minutes as a default to correct for the variance of route length. I have no idea how you expect the courier mission times to balance out with agents in 0.0 where the station distances are very far apart. Stations are closer in .1 - .4 but still there is the problem of matching the conditions of the mission generator. Empire space has some variation depending on location of agent system, security status restrictions, etc. If you intend to correct this average with a modifier (average time plus modifier) at the next patch, then please state that is the intention. Currently, it is unclear what your intentions are. I'll just wait until you fix this part of the game.
Seramis	Posted - 2005.02.04 13:37:00 - [46] Except the Pirate Extravaganza i never had a problem reaching the bonus time in level 4 Missions. After the Patch last Tuesday the onus time was extended a little bit. For Missions i had 45min before i now got 1h 33min -------------------------------------------------- 2005.02.03 21:49:15 combat Your 720mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Asteroid Colony, wrecking for 496.4 damage.
Dame Sneakers	Posted - 2005.02.04 14:09:00 - [47] People, it is a "Bonus", it is not guarantied. So what if somebody is better or luckier on a mission, then they get the bonus. Maybe next time you will be the lucky one. However, I do see a problem with people doing level 1 and 2 missions in battleships screwing over the newer players. Maybe the bonus time calculation function could somehow take into account either the ship used or the skillpoints of the player. For example, somebody does a level 1 mission in a bs in ten minutes, the time is multiplied by some factor before it is used in calculating the average. ------------------------------------So many skills, so little time...
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2005.02.04 14:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Zrakor Originally by: Kuolematon Originally by: Deepeh So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up. Not quite. If you read ALL patch notes, they nerffed THIS too. They are doing it to seriously N.E.R.F mission runners. You have to decide for time bonus OR loot "bonus" for those uber basic items. I'm really wondering why I really bother doing missions because armortanked apoc cannot do 'em The 'nerfing' of the 'loot after mission completed' routine was a misunderstanding (i.e. the patch notes were misleading on that part). You can still warp back to your bookmark and loot the cans that were left behind after you have completed the mission. Do you mind commenting on the other misleading points in the patch notes? Mainly the ones about pirate tags and market demand.... :) I just wonder what it's supposed to mean, and nobody could answer that yet.
Sabahl	Posted - 2005.02.04 23:41:00 - [49] I think it means that pirate factions will now, finally, buy Empire dog tags at their stations. Only they don't. So maybe it doesn't.
rockboy	Posted - 2005.02.05 01:49:00 - [50] So, everyone, it is up to us this weekend to accept one mission and take all 24 hours to complete it. Or at least DT + sleep time. That should make all the mission bonuses a little easier to get. ;)
rockboy	Posted - 2005.02.05 01:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Dame Sneakers However, I do see a problem with people doing level 1 and 2 missions in battleships screwing over the newer players. haha! that's a great idea. now i know what i'll be doing while i'm waiting for all the L4's i accept to stretch. ;)
Uhlan	Posted - 2005.02.06 18:52:00 - [52] Congratulations on the quick fix. The impossible short mission time problem appears to be fixed. ty
Garia666	Posted - 2005.02.09 10:30:00 - [53] If it aint broke DOnt fix it.. Feels like the AB and MWD afair.. If people need to use the BM`s wich takes allot of time to make them.. Why dont give instant jumps in empire anyway? saves allot of hassle for most people..
Killer Gandry	Posted - 2005.02.09 11:10:00 - [54] This must have been one of the worst idea's sofar. So let me get it straight. If I and some other Uber mission ***s want to gank newbees, all we have to do is rush up on the low lvl missions and they are screwed. Because that sort of ganking will be used by people who love nothing more then ruining the fun for other people. Even with a frigate I can do lvl 1 and 2 missions a lot faster then the new player who tries to make a living that way. So I get my bonusses easy and he will get the shaft. I am glad I do all my lvl 3 missions in a standrad cruiser and some even in my frigate, but still. I am a mission *** and over time I have managed to perfect my caracal use on lvl 3 missions and I do most within 16 minutes, just not the real tough ones. But even there I have no problem what so ever to get the bonusses. Each time I complete a mission well within time my time will be part of the nerf for people who are still working on setups or just started lvl 3 missions. Bad thinking CCP. You nerfed the loot to death on missions and now you allso nerf the bonus to death for new players. I wonder if you ever thought about the fact that new blood is what keeps the game running. Not keeping us old horses happy. Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying
X'Alor	Posted - 2005.02.09 14:42:00 - [55] I have no idea what you guys are seeing but so far. doing lvl 4 missions since this last patch. All the bonuses are set up at gimme bonus times. beyond easy with 2 pilots leet alone 3 or 4 or 5. 5 stop pirate invasion 5 HOURS i mean come on already. if people are taking 10 hours to complete that mission even solo.......they should go back to lvl 3 and try again.they shouldn't be there and they shouldn't be complaining..... flat out. Did it using two people in less than 1 hour. looted and completed. If anyone takes 5 hours for that mission they should quit ..... even solo. lvl 4 silence informant ....2 hours easily done completed with 2 people 1.5 hours including blowing up the buildings that don't drop anything and taking our sweet time. bookmarking cans can easily be done in 45 minutes or less. serp spies deadspace 40/45 minutes completed and docked 11 minutes. you guys are gonna hate me...... I'm doing my part to bring them times down and I'm using base BS speed with no boosters. IMO this thread sounds like a lot of people spending time flying away from rats scared and to worried to engaged and blow up more than one at a time. with decent tactics and one good partner...... two of you should easily complete all lvl 4 missions and get all bonus rewards no problem splitting all the bounties rewards and sold $$$$$$ items, the two of you will make more money together in less than half the time than it takes solo trying to be fast and godly. if you can't get them solo..... bummer. not intended. If you can't on lvl 3's ..... hate to tell ya but you need more skills someplace.
Marion Quicksilver	Posted - 2005.02.11 23:04:00 - [56] Edited by: Marion Quicksilver on 11/02/2005 23:05:16 It's well documented: Old players say "you're hurting newbs with this fix" or... old players say "HA get skilz and come back later." Either way, listen to them. It's overwhelming opinion that there's a problem. New players (me @ 2 months now) say "Man it's tough to solo these and get a bonus these days." I'm running lv 3 in my BC and haven't collected a deadspace bonus yet... The normal space missions are doable, IMO. I'm no afk mission-er and am missing a lot of bonuses. I agree with a minimum time. Don't penalize we new guys with the old guys averages. Don't make me have to share the loot with someone else to collect some extra isk or trade goods...
Miniver Cheevy	Posted - 2005.02.12 06:23:00 - [57] Just my two isk worth... I don't think I've missed a bonus since the patch running lvl 4 hauler missions, so sorry for bringing down the curve! That being said, I'm in safe space, have BMs for approx 5 jumps in the usual routes, a dead-end system, mark 5, and a decent market. I have to use my BMs more often but I haven't had any problems. Some of the missions I wouldn't have been able to do in time without the BMs, but not all that many. In fact, many of the multi-station hauls have had bonus times of six hours! The ship is more important to success IMHO, and you're nuts not to be using a large hauler for lvl 4 hauling missions anyway. Am I upset with the changes? Nope. Can I see why there's a big difference for kill missions hurting noobs? Certainly -- if I didn't care about my standings, I'd do my part and accept a few kill missions just to let them idle!
Kar Brogan	Posted - 2005.02.12 11:18:00 - [58] Just my POV 1.Its a Bonus...an extra for doing something beyond normal,better than anyone else.If your worse than others, you dont get the bonus.Tuff, but if it was easy, wheres the fun? 2.The 'omg i cant do LVL4 solo and get my bonus' is stupid. The idea was that LVL4 missions would be group activities. I take my hat off to the Devs for rewarding people who play to the spirit of the game (for once) 3.Noobs will have trouble with low level missions soloed by better players?So now the new players will have to communicate with other new players and form a group to get mission bonuses..ohnoes new players might have to get invovled with other people.Strange concept for a MMORPG i know,but it just might work. 4.Mission grinders get too much as is..BS spawns in empire space...i ask ya? Looks like things evened up a bit
Booky	Posted - 2005.02.12 14:21:00 - [59] Maybe Im not supposed to do this, BUT, if I miss the bonus by even 1 minute then I wait until just before the mission expires to complete. This at least helps out the solo guys. Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post.
Laendra	Posted - 2005.02.12 15:08:00 - [60] Originally by: Zrakor There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. However it is not as drastic as a 50% drop off, because the timer is raised considerably by people who slack off (i.e. complete the mission on a very slow pace, or the day after they accept it). *Laendra wonders if the people who decline the mission also "complete" it for the purposes of this calculation, as it would appear to be the case. -------------------

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