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Johnny Atlas
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Posted - 2005.02.01 23:29:00 -
[1]
A corpy reported that mission bonus times had been reduced. So i started a mish and got this...
68000 credits.
thirteen thousand units of small Iridium charges will be awarded to you as a bonus if you complete the mission within 17 minutes.
154 Loyalty Points.
Anyone else got this?
Any explanation for it? another silent nerf |
Drogon
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Posted - 2005.02.02 00:03:00 -
[2]
if that's true thats crap ... trying to do a LvL 4 kill mission in the hour timelimit solo is nearly impossible as it is anyways. if they reduced it even more then i'll never get the bonus.
Director, Divine Retribution
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2005.02.02 05:33:00 -
[3]
I got lvl3 Angel Suprise mission today and only had 16 min window to get the bonus.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
Magius2
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Posted - 2005.02.02 05:44:00 -
[4]
Its hard to say, I had the mordus goons mission (level 4) just before, normally if I remember rightly you get 45 minutes to complete it, I was given 1 hour 33 minutes to complete it in this time.
Maybe there basing the times on average time taken to complete the mission?
If so it must be for all eve players, I don't think I've ever taken over 40 minutes to complete it.
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Yeux Gris
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Posted - 2005.02.02 06:20:00 -
[5]
Mordus can be done in 45mins..
I have done it many tims under that.
Except the first time when i had wrong ammo :P
Who let the cows out?! mOo. mOo. mOo.. mOo mOo...!
WTB 8x 280mm Scout Howies. Will pay 20% more than Naga's current price |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2005.02.02 10:51:00 -
[6]
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
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Deovina
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:01:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
It will be funny when delivery missions will have a bonus time of 0-1 Minute ;).
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Deovina
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
It will be funny when delivery missions will have a bonus time of 0-1 Minute ;).
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capt
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
Hmmm should prove to be interesting for the hauller missions.......
Suppose people have to carry x shuttles to a certain station. Suppose people are not stupid and buy said number of drones at the station where they are supposed to ship the drones to and *bingo* mission succesfull in about 2-3 minutes.
But what if you are supposed to take x shuttles to a station where they don't sell shuttles and the bonus time because of these "insta-mission"tactics is about 5 minutes?
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AmeL1a
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
That doesnt make sense what so ever !!, Wont this give a huge advantage to people doing this missions in group versus solo mission runners ??
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Cirle
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AmeL1a
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
That doesnt make sense what so ever !!, Wont this give a huge advantage to people doing this missions in group versus solo mission runners ??
Probably part of the point... :|
Cirle |
Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: AmeL1a
That doesnt make sense what so ever !!, Wont this give a huge advantage to people doing this missions in group versus solo mission runners ??
That depends on the amount of people actually running the missions solo or in group. Group runners will gain advantage on the time bonus point, but at the same time they have to share all the bounties and loot. Also, only the person that accepted the mission will get paid and thus receive the bonus.
So, advantage: depends on how you look at it, I personally don't think it's a real advantage. Huge advantage? Absolutely not.
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Johnny Atlas
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:34:00 -
[13]
I dont know how to look at this. I never used to miss bonus's before even when lots of loot dropped as ive always got an alt in a destroyer running around after them.
If its an overall average of that mission then it shouldnt be a problem. That 17 minutes was for the "Duo of Death" (or minor flesh wound as someone else put it). Id probably do that mission in 5 minutes, but it was 1 jump away so add a few minutes there.
I first read it as an average of my own missioning, but that would just be stupid.
I agree with those people's point about the delivery missions where u just buy the product at the target station, that will throw it out big styley. But hopefully the lvl4 "various deliveries" will be a bit more doable now, I missed the 45 minute bonus by 10 minutes first time I did it, only because I forgot to share out the insta-jumps with the other 2 haulers  . |
Armi Tage
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:43:00 -
[14]
nice, my lvl 3 agents gives me missions that are 4-5 jumps away, and that are mostly duo af death and outpost under attack, a mission that takes 5 minutes but i have a travel time of nearly 20 minutes.
meaning i wont ever get the bonus with such missions
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Finraer
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
Surely that's going to penalise people doing haulage missions.
There are always going to be people who have the items needed in station (particularly ammo) and can "complete" the mission without actually doing the work for it.
That's going to drag the average down to the level where the time bonus on haulage missions is going to be down to whether or not you have the goods on hand and not whether you manage to fly over, collect the stranded ammo from the poor pilot who got waylaid and fly back to your ever-so happy agent.
I agree that for kill missions, its a fairly good idea (although BS pilots doing lvl 1 and 2 missions will have the same effect as the above to a lesser extent) but it doesn't make sense for haulage as it currently stands.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:57:00 -
[16]
I had sabatoge mission level 3 last night. I think I had around an hour to finish it. 4 BM tto get the viral agents. I finished well within time with a corpmate picking up the cargo. I could of picked up the cargo myself and still finish in time.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
4 LOM
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: 4 LOM on 02/02/2005 14:01:02
i have noticed the oposite.... the times apear to be longer for me, i was givin 2 and a half hours to do a single hawling mission and plenty of time to do my kill missions... even had time to grab the loot and get the bonuses (bookmarked and went back with an speed indy), if anything they are to long.
edit: ah missed that comment saying the time is now the average time. ok that sounds good. that means half the people can do it fast enough to get the bonus and that sounds about right.
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AmeL1a
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Posted - 2005.02.02 14:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Armi Tage
nice, my lvl 3 agents gives me missions that are 4-5 jumps away, and that are mostly duo af death and outpost under attack, a mission that takes 5 minutes but i have a travel time of nearly 20 minutes.
meaning i wont ever get the bonus with such missions
Small tips to speed mission runs:
When you get a mission offer, go first one jump before the location,
then accept the mission in-space ( yes that works ), now you're just 1 jump away..
also when the mission is finished and you dont have a mission deliverable, you can go to any station and select your agent to signal the end of the mission.
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.02.02 16:02:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 02/02/2005 16:28:33
Originally by: Harisdrop
I had sabatoge mission level 3 last night. I think I had around an hour to finish it. 4 BM tto get the viral agents. I finished well within time with a corpmate picking up the cargo. I could of picked up the cargo myself and still finish in time.
Yes, 1 hour was also the time that I usually needed.
The idea to use the average time that the players is a good idea. Before the patch you had only 45 mins for this mission. I did it also in 45 mins, but only with a battleship to kill everything fast and a mwd-fregate to loot the cans and bring the vitox to the agent in time. Compared to other mission 45 mins have been too short.
It's a good change although I think that i'll never get a lvl.4 bonus again, even not for easy missions like 'Serpentis Spies'.
/edit ok, the drawback MAY be, that newbies will have problems to get the bonus for lvl. 1 and 2 missions. Every player who usually solos lvl.4 missions is able to complete lvl. 1,2,3 with ease. So if these people change to another corp, they'll do these missions at high speed and lower the time limit for these missions. (/edit Depends on the ratio experienced players aka corp changers to newbies, so perhaps it's no problem at all. )
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.02.02 17:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I may be stating the obvious here, but this basically means that 50% of missions will not be done in the bonus time (i.e half the times a mission is done are above average time). I don't know if this was what you intended, but considering that in my agent running career I have hardly ever failed to get the bonus, this is potentially a very major nerf.
Would not average time +20% or something similar be more appropriate ?
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2005.02.02 17:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I may be stating the obvious here, but this basically means that 50% of missions will not be done in the bonus time (i.e half the times a mission is done are above average time). I don't know if this was what you intended, but considering that in my agent running career I have hardly ever failed to get the bonus, this is potentially a very major nerf.
Would not average time +20% or something similar be more appropriate ?
There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. However it is not as drastic as a 50% drop off, because the timer is raised considerably by people who slack off (i.e. complete the mission on a very slow pace, or the day after they accept it).
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:18:00 -
[22]
Thanks for the response Zrakor. Nice to see you're on the ball as usual 
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zrakor
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I may be stating the obvious here, but this basically means that 50% of missions will not be done in the bonus time (i.e half the times a mission is done are above average time). I don't know if this was what you intended, but considering that in my agent running career I have hardly ever failed to get the bonus, this is potentially a very major nerf.
Would not average time +20% or something similar be more appropriate ?
There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. However it is not as drastic as a 50% drop off, because the timer is raised considerably by people who slack off (i.e. complete the mission on a very slow pace, or the day after they accept it).
yes but ant this timer put off by the fact some people dont bother with loot and othes do ie taking longer to do the mission.
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Greenwing
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:50:00 -
[24]
And don't forget the trade-missions, where some people will have the asked goods allready at the station they are in, while others will have to search for the goods.
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pngzor
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:05:00 -
[25]
While it doesn't affect me much, this is another kick in the head to the new players.
The last few months the nubs lost any chance of getting into research with the lab price nerf.
Then they lost the opportunity to get good r&d agents within any reasonable amount of time, with the random corp giving you storyline missions, and hence taking longer to get good standing with the corp you're interested in.
Now they lose 50% of their rewards when doing missions aswell, as they're more likely to use smaller ships. A starting player will be using his breacher/kestrel on l2 and rax/rupture/maller/caracal on l3 missions, and will have no chance of competing with the average times set by "older" agent runners who use battleships or t2 frigs/cruisers to speed things up.
--
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News
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:08:00 -
[26]
Just hope you get the same mission that I get. Bonus time should be considerable on those. /me points to corp name
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Bleakheart
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:16:00 -
[27]
Well, I'm happy to do my part with Gurista Extravaganza. Bonus Timer: 45 minutes. Personal time to complet: Hmmm... around 7 hours or so since I had to go back for more torps after every fight with Usurpers. And made dinner. Brushed my teeth. Watched a couple Invader Zim episodes for inspiration to take another stab at it after my next batch of torps completed in the factory...
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Drusilla
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Posted - 2005.02.02 22:54:00 -
[28]
I like the new change in concept but I'd likse to express my concern about the issue: Two possible problems, both of which have been touched on. I'd like to be specific about them and add my voice.
1. mission completion time varies not based just on the particular mission and vigor with which the agent runner pursues that time bonus, but based other items.
A> Ship used. An Iteron 5 will complete a big hauling mission better than an Interon 1. A Raven will complete level 3 combat missions faster than a Maller. Having access to the right ship will make those with the right ships (oldbies) faster.
B> Ability to kludge the mission. Instant completion items like shuttle elivery where you can buy shuttles at the destination are one example. Shortening methods like the "multiple deliveries" one where, if you are smart, you can move only a small portion of the items to end up with all the stations having the right number of item without you needing to actually do all the full deliveries are another. They will shorten mission time over those who either cannot buy the items at the station of completion or who get deliveries of different item names where you cannot kludge it.
C> Distance Variables. There's an agent running station I used to use that contains 6 agents applicable to me (at the time). Two level 1s, 2s, and 3s. The constellation is a dead end with half the systems having no stations. The adjoining constellation likewise has about half the systems with no stations. The routes to take were always predictable and short and allowed you to run 6 missions simultaneously. Agent Runners not in such systems would never keep up with the pace of runners in a system like that.
2. Fast mission completers skew the completion time more than slow misison completers.
Let's say we have two agent runners in play. Runner 1 completes missions faster than agent 2. Maybe he has better ships. Maybe he is in a nice dead-end system. Maybe he has all the right stuff for sale at the destination systems. Maybe he has all three of these advantages.
Let's say it takes him 30 minutes to complete missions, but it takes player 2 60 minutes.
In two hours, player 1 will have completed FOUR missions in 30 minutes each in that time period. Player 2 will have completed only two missions in the same time period.
Therefore, player 1, because he is faster, is dragging the average downwards twice as fast as player 2 is dragging it upwards. You'd have to have two slow players losing out on the time bonus to even it out.
Because of those issues, the game will rapidly become one where only those who have the right ships, market, and location to complete missions super fast will be able to get the time bonus because the slower players will keep the average time just above their super fast rate. It won't be a 50-50 split. It'll be more like 33% making it with 67% failing to make it, or worse depending on just how badly the "instant completions" skew the curve.
Under the prior system, everyone had at least some chance of getting the time bonus. Under the new system, unless there is something happening I don't know about, most people will be utterly unable to get time bonuses once the averages start to balance out.
I don't think that is particularly fair to the agent runners of the game. Just my 2 ISK.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.02.03 12:53:00 -
[29]
What I can't understand, is why does it really matter how long it takes people on-average to get a mission done when deciding how to set the bonuses?
Not everyone is a mission whoring superman. I sometimes have to take phone calls, use the bathroom, eat, smoke... you get the idea.
Does it really matter, in the grand scheme of things? I can understand on missions where NOBODY is getting the bonus and it is changed to be more fair, but why switch the times on the easier missions?
What purpose does it serve?
www.hadean.org
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Commander Flopsy
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Posted - 2005.02.03 13:46:00 -
[30]
I had a kill mission in an adjacent system with a bonus time of just 9 minutes yesterday. Managed it, but only just, and only because I have the knowledge and power to do it that quick. Any newish player getting that kind of bonus time just isn't going to stand a chance of making it. And I'm left wondering just how the average has dropped so low already on a kill mission.
Interestingly enough, I also had a mission with "And I'll throw in a nice bonus if you finish within the hour" in the description, with a bonus time of 35 minutes - they need to fix the descriptions to reflect the new averaging system.
I reckon every time the bonus is useless, I'll wait until the next day on purpose to do it. Fight the system! 
--
There is no SoonÖ |
Drusilla
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Posted - 2005.02.03 16:56:00 -
[31]
If anyone would tkae the time to read my long-ish post a few back and comment I'd aprpeciate feedback on the analysis in it.
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Alejandro Zapata
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Posted - 2005.02.03 17:58:00 -
[32]
Quote:
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
does not equal this...
Quote:
There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now.
Come on guys, lets get consistent, it is either one way or the other. So which is it? Is there going to be a multiplier applied to the average time or not? If so then, that is great, when the phook is it going to be fixed? If not, then the setup is BAD.
I tear thru Level 3 missions in my assault frigate. But I am a mission *****, peeps should not be punished because I know exactly how to complete the missions as fast as possible.
9 Minutes is INSANE! If the mission is more than a couple of jumps away, to a system without a station or it requires an item returned, someone would be very hard pressed to complete it.
I am sure there is some better way to come up with a good bonus time that is standard. Something that takes into account the Quality of agent, # of Spawns, # of Waypoints, and whether it is a roundtrip mission.
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.02.03 20:04:00 -
[33]
I'm sorry but this is such a bad idea. You are forcing it so that everyone will complete a specific mission, a specific way, in a specific ship, with a specific set up - just because that is known to do the mission pretty much in 'x' mins. Also, you further dissaude mission runners from collecting their loot before returning to their agent.
Nobody was complaining with the old method so why on Earth was it changed? It's not like mission runners make millions and millions of isk an hour (certainly not level 3's and below).
--
Polaris Lumine
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.02.03 20:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Johnny Atlas
A corpy reported that mission bonus times had been reduced. So i started a mish and got this...
<snip>
Anyone else got this?
Any explanation for it? another silent nerf
I wish people would stop using the expression "nerf" completely out of context and in absolute irrelevant discussions. Not every tweak to the game dynamics is automatically a "nerf". This is not a "nerf".
As for the tweak, I really like it quite frankly. The bonus times are now based on how the 'average joe' does them, and that is something great as far as I'm concerned. Some missions are now tougher to finish in the bonus timespan, and some missions have gotten easier.
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2005.02.03 21:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Drogon
if that's true thats crap ... trying to do a LvL 4 kill mission in the hour timelimit solo is nearly impossible as it is anyways. if they reduced it even more then i'll never get the bonus.
Did it occur to you that you aren't supposed to be able to do the mission in the bonus time solo?
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:23:00 -
[36]
I've had a mordus lvl. 4 mission today. Timelimit was 1 1/2 hour. I needed 1 hour with my typhoon (without collecting the cans) and I've only 2 mio SP. A character with more LP will probably be able to do it a lot faster. I can't complain. Some timelimits are shorter and some are longer.
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:29:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Snake Jankins
I've had a mordus lvl. 4 mission today. Timelimit was 1 1/2 hour. I needed 1 hour with my typhoon (without collecting the cans) and I've only 2 mio SP. A character with more LP will probably be able to do it a lot faster. I can't complain. Some timelimits are shorter and some are longer.
I concur. I think most of the people that (rightfully) think that the time limit is too short are picking up the loot cans at the same time they are doing the mission. If I would pick up the loot cans I quite probably wouldn't make it in the bonus timelimit either.
So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up - depending on how I feel I get my Crow out and take the named loot with me, or I get my trusty Bestower with overdrives and an afterburner and just scoop it all up.
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.02.04 08:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Deepeh
So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up.
Not quite. If you read ALL patch notes, they nerffed THIS too. They are doing it to seriously N.E.R.F mission runners. You have to decide for time bonus OR loot "bonus" for those uber basic items. I'm really wondering why I really bother doing missions because armortanked apoc cannot do 'em 
_______________________________________________
My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/)
(x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
MaximvS
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Posted - 2005.02.04 09:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I've just gotten Guristas Extravaganza this morning, and it's given me a bonus reward time of 45 minutes. I would love to meet the people who are doing this mission in that time so I can shake their hands! It took 2 of us in Ravens over 3 hours to do it the other day! There was no bonus reward or mission time the other day either.
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Member of STK Scientific [STK-S]. Come see us at http://www.stkscientific.com |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2005.02.04 10:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: MaximvS
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I've just gotten Guristas Extravaganza this morning, and it's given me a bonus reward time of 45 minutes. I would love to meet the people who are doing this mission in that time so I can shake their hands! It took 2 of us in Ravens over 3 hours to do it the other day! There was no bonus reward or mission time the other day either.
This is a new mission, so it still has a default value. Give it a day or two and the mission will recieve a more sane value.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2005.02.04 10:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Deepeh
So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up.
Not quite. If you read ALL patch notes, they nerffed THIS too. They are doing it to seriously N.E.R.F mission runners. You have to decide for time bonus OR loot "bonus" for those uber basic items. I'm really wondering why I really bother doing missions because armortanked apoc cannot do 'em
The 'nerfing' of the 'loot after mission completed' routine was a misunderstanding (i.e. the patch notes were misleading on that part). You can still warp back to your bookmark and loot the cans that were left behind after you have completed the mission.
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Armi Tage
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Posted - 2005.02.04 10:53:00 -
[42]
Just a thought, but i think that new mission runners are getting the shaft
Peeps like me, that do lvl 2 missions in BCs and BS complete them in no time and i do it because i need the standing for higher lvl agents, lvl 4 in my case, because al lvl 3 agents are to far away to set up a new camp
atm i'm borking the bonustimes for killmission for lvl 2 mission runners and i'm pretty sure that i'm not alone
Angel suprise in 15 minutes? Wich real lvl 2 mission runner that uses a frig can do that?
The idea is great but peeps like me that need low-level agents toget to the higher agents make the living very hard for others
Also there is the issue with agents near low-sec space, they often send you through that area. Where I live there are quite a few campers, resulting in longer safe-routes. Other agent runnes with only high-sec space around them have an advantage because of that, making it hard for some peeps to get the bonus and I don't want ro relocate a few 100K m¦ of stuff to another area, where I have to settle anew only to avoid that effect.
But it really reduces afk-couriermissionrunners, becaus ethey don't get the bonus anymore.
And what about insta-completing couriermission because you simply buy the goods you have to transport at the other station. Sometimes you are lucky because you can. In the other instances you loose the bonus because of the aforementioned cases, which reduce the bonustime to much I would guess
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2005.02.04 11:02:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Armi Tage
Just a thought, but i think that new mission runners are getting the shaft
Peeps like me, that do lvl 2 missions in BCs and BS complete them in no time and i do it because i need the standing for higher lvl agents, lvl 4 in my case, because al lvl 3 agents are to far away to set up a new camp
atm i'm borking the bonustimes for killmission for lvl 2 mission runners and i'm pretty sure that i'm not alone
Angel suprise in 15 minutes? Wich real lvl 2 mission runner that uses a frig can do that?
The idea is great but peeps like me that need low-level agents toget to the higher agents make the living very hard for others
Also there is the issue with agents near low-sec space, they often send you through that area. Where I live there are quite a few campers, resulting in longer safe-routes. Other agent runnes with only high-sec space around them have an advantage because of that, making it hard for some peeps to get the bonus and I don't want ro relocate a few 100K m¦ of stuff to another area, where I have to settle anew only to avoid that effect.
But it really reduces afk-couriermissionrunners, becaus ethey don't get the bonus anymore.
And what about insta-completing couriermission because you simply buy the goods you have to transport at the other station. Sometimes you are lucky because you can. In the other instances you loose the bonus because of the aforementioned cases, which reduce the bonustime to much I would guess
not just that there are some people who do level 3 with a group let alone level 4 this also screws the standalone runner
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Amaron Ghant
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Posted - 2005.02.04 11:25:00 -
[44]
Mission bonus time is the average now?
OK I can live with that.
If I miss a bonus, theres always the next mission :)
Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!!
Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner |
Uhlan
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Posted - 2005.02.04 11:58:00 -
[45]
Courier mission.
Seven (7) jumps one way. Item to be carried from home station. Bonus time of 16 minutes. I had 5 book marks, and still couldn't complete in the bonus time. (and for you forum trolls, Duh! route was the shortest possible and I confirm that there was no shorter path.)
I understand the concept of making the bonus time adjust to the actual mission. BUT, your mission generator is complex and it selects different routes of different lengths for different agents. Perhaps you should consider the length of the mission, but that is probably much too complicated and perhaps the simplest is a minimum of 30 minutes as a default to correct for the variance of route length.
I have no idea how you expect the courier mission times to balance out with agents in 0.0 where the station distances are very far apart. Stations are closer in .1 - .4 but still there is the problem of matching the conditions of the mission generator. Empire space has some variation depending on location of agent system, security status restrictions, etc.
If you intend to correct this average with a modifier (average time plus modifier) at the next patch, then please state that is the intention. Currently, it is unclear what your intentions are.
I'll just wait until you fix this part of the game. 
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Seramis
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Posted - 2005.02.04 13:37:00 -
[46]
Except the Pirate Extravaganza i never had a problem reaching the bonus time in level 4 Missions. After the Patch last Tuesday the onus time was extended a little bit. For Missions i had 45min before i now got 1h 33min
--------------------------------------------------
2005.02.03 21:49:15 combat Your 720mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Asteroid Colony, wrecking for 496.4 damage.
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Dame Sneakers
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Posted - 2005.02.04 14:09:00 -
[47]
People, it is a "Bonus", it is not guarantied. So what if somebody is better or luckier on a mission, then they get the bonus. Maybe next time you will be the lucky one.
However, I do see a problem with people doing level 1 and 2 missions in battleships screwing over the newer players. Maybe the bonus time calculation function could somehow take into account either the ship used or the skillpoints of the player. For example, somebody does a level 1 mission in a bs in ten minutes, the time is multiplied by some factor before it is used in calculating the average.
------------------------------------So many skills, so little time... |
Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2005.02.04 14:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zrakor
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Deepeh
So what do you do after thinking about it? You bookmark the location and head back in a fast frigate or a pimped out industrial to pick it all up.
Not quite. If you read ALL patch notes, they nerffed THIS too. They are doing it to seriously N.E.R.F mission runners. You have to decide for time bonus OR loot "bonus" for those uber basic items. I'm really wondering why I really bother doing missions because armortanked apoc cannot do 'em
The 'nerfing' of the 'loot after mission completed' routine was a misunderstanding (i.e. the patch notes were misleading on that part). You can still warp back to your bookmark and loot the cans that were left behind after you have completed the mission.
Do you mind commenting on the other misleading points in the patch notes?
Mainly the ones about pirate tags and market demand.... :)
I just wonder what it's supposed to mean, and nobody could answer that yet. |
Sabahl
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Posted - 2005.02.04 23:41:00 -
[49]
I think it means that pirate factions will now, finally, buy Empire dog tags at their stations.
Only they don't. So maybe it doesn't.
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rockboy
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Posted - 2005.02.05 01:49:00 -
[50]
So, everyone, it is up to us this weekend to accept one mission and take all 24 hours to complete it. Or at least DT + sleep time.
That should make all the mission bonuses a little easier to get. ;)
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rockboy
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Posted - 2005.02.05 01:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dame Sneakers
However, I do see a problem with people doing level 1 and 2 missions in battleships screwing over the newer players.
haha! that's a great idea. now i know what i'll be doing while i'm waiting for all the L4's i accept to stretch. ;)
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Uhlan
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:52:00 -
[52]
Congratulations on the quick fix. The impossible short mission time problem appears to be fixed. ty
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Garia666
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Posted - 2005.02.09 10:30:00 -
[53]
If it aint broke DOnt fix it..
Feels like the AB and MWD afair..
If people need to use the BM`s wich takes allot of time to make them..
Why dont give instant jumps in empire anyway? saves allot of hassle for most people..
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Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2005.02.09 11:10:00 -
[54]
This must have been one of the worst idea's sofar.
So let me get it straight. If I and some other Uber mission *****s want to gank newbees, all we have to do is rush up on the low lvl missions and they are screwed.
Because that sort of ganking will be used by people who love nothing more then ruining the fun for other people.
Even with a frigate I can do lvl 1 and 2 missions a lot faster then the new player who tries to make a living that way. So I get my bonusses easy and he will get the shaft.
I am glad I do all my lvl 3 missions in a standrad cruiser and some even in my frigate, but still. I am a mission ***** and over time I have managed to perfect my caracal use on lvl 3 missions and I do most within 16 minutes, just not the real tough ones. But even there I have no problem what so ever to get the bonusses.
Each time I complete a mission well within time my time will be part of the nerf for people who are still working on setups or just started lvl 3 missions.
Bad thinking CCP. You nerfed the loot to death on missions and now you allso nerf the bonus to death for new players.
I wonder if you ever thought about the fact that new blood is what keeps the game running. Not keeping us old horses happy.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.02.09 14:42:00 -
[55]
I have no idea what you guys are seeing but so far.
doing lvl 4 missions since this last patch.
All the bonuses are set up at gimme bonus times. beyond easy with 2 pilots leet alone 3 or 4 or 5.
5 stop pirate invasion 5 HOURS i mean come on already. if people are taking 10 hours to complete that mission even solo.......they should go back to lvl 3 and try again.they shouldn't be there and they shouldn't be complaining..... flat out. Did it using two people in less than 1 hour. looted and completed. If anyone takes 5 hours for that mission they should quit ..... even solo.
lvl 4 silence informant ....2 hours
easily done completed with 2 people 1.5 hours including blowing up the buildings that don't drop anything and taking our sweet time. bookmarking cans can easily be done in 45 minutes or less.
serp spies deadspace 40/45 minutes
completed and docked 11 minutes.
you guys are gonna hate me...... I'm doing my part to bring them times down and I'm using base BS speed with no boosters.
IMO this thread sounds like a lot of people spending time flying away from rats scared and to worried to engaged and blow up more than one at a time.
with decent tactics and one good partner...... two of you should easily complete all lvl 4 missions and get all bonus rewards no problem
splitting all the bounties rewards and sold $$$$$$ items, the two of you will make more money together in less than half the time than it takes solo trying to be fast and godly. if you can't get them solo..... bummer. not intended.
If you can't on lvl 3's ..... hate to tell ya but you need more skills someplace.
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Marion Quicksilver
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Posted - 2005.02.11 23:04:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Marion Quicksilver on 11/02/2005 23:05:16
It's well documented:
Old players say "you're hurting newbs with this fix" or... old players say "HA get skilz and come back later." Either way, listen to them. It's overwhelming opinion that there's a problem.
New players (me @ 2 months now) say "Man it's tough to solo these and get a bonus these days." I'm running lv 3 in my BC and haven't collected a deadspace bonus yet... The normal space missions are doable, IMO. I'm no afk mission-er and am missing a lot of bonuses.
I agree with a minimum time. Don't penalize we new guys with the old guys averages. Don't make me have to share the loot with someone else to collect some extra isk or trade goods...
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Miniver Cheevy
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Posted - 2005.02.12 06:23:00 -
[57]
Just my two isk worth... I don't think I've missed a bonus since the patch running lvl 4 hauler missions, so sorry for bringing down the curve!
That being said, I'm in safe space, have BMs for approx 5 jumps in the usual routes, a dead-end system, mark 5, and a decent market. I have to use my BMs more often but I haven't had any problems. Some of the missions I wouldn't have been able to do in time without the BMs, but not all that many. In fact, many of the multi-station hauls have had bonus times of six hours! The ship is more important to success IMHO, and you're nuts not to be using a large hauler for lvl 4 hauling missions anyway.
Am I upset with the changes? Nope. Can I see why there's a big difference for kill missions hurting noobs? Certainly -- if I didn't care about my standings, I'd do my part and accept a few kill missions just to let them idle!
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Kar Brogan
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Posted - 2005.02.12 11:18:00 -
[58]
Just my POV
1.Its a Bonus...an extra for doing something beyond normal,better than anyone else.If your worse than others, you dont get the bonus.Tuff, but if it was easy, wheres the fun?
2.The 'omg i cant do LVL4 solo and get my bonus' is stupid. The idea was that LVL4 missions would be group activities. I take my hat off to the Devs for rewarding people who play to the spirit of the game (for once)
3.Noobs will have trouble with low level missions soloed by better players?So now the new players will have to communicate with other new players and form a group to get mission bonuses..ohnoes new players might have to get invovled with other people.Strange concept for a MMORPG i know,but it just might work.
4.Mission grinders get too much as is..BS spawns in empire space...i ask ya? Looks like things evened up a bit
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Booky
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Posted - 2005.02.12 14:21:00 -
[59]
Maybe Im not supposed to do this, BUT, if I miss the bonus by even 1 minute then I wait until just before the mission expires to complete. This at least helps out the solo guys.
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Laendra
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Posted - 2005.02.12 15:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Zrakor
There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. However it is not as drastic as a 50% drop off, because the timer is raised considerably by people who slack off (i.e. complete the mission on a very slow pace, or the day after they accept it).
*Laendra wonders if the people who decline the mission also "complete" it for the purposes of this calculation, as it would appear to be the case.
------------------- |
Laendra
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Posted - 2005.02.12 15:11:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Laendra on 12/02/2005 15:10:41
Originally by: Zrakor
This is a new mission, so it still has a default value. Give it a day or two and the mission will recieve a more sane value.
Just a thought...you know, thinking out of the box and all...why not give new missions an insanely LARGE value rather than the opposite...so, you know, people who get them first aren't screwed up the crap-hole?
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:20:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Zrakor
The 'nerfing' of the 'loot after mission completed' routine was a misunderstanding (i.e. the patch notes were misleading on that part). You can still warp back to your bookmark and loot the cans that were left behind after you have completed the mission.
Ah, okay good to know this one :). Now all I need that I get my apoc back from petition (5 days and counting  ) and I will go back doing missions ;) -- or learn to fly Raven and suck it that Raven is TEH BEST agent runner hands down.
_______________________________________________
My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/)
(x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Pastora
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Posted - 2005.02.17 09:35:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Pastora on 17/02/2005 09:38:56
Good posts, X'Alor and Kar Brogan.
Game is becoming too easy lately, and people still complain. If one can't do it in bonus time, then it is his or her own fault. Many people can and do it in bonus time.
I even manage to collect all the cans sometimes, before the bonus time expires. Hey, I even made some lvl4 combat missions (e.g. Blockade mission with 4 waves and when the BS's spawn on top of you) in a caracal just to try it out. To be honest, I haven't tried deepspace missions in a caracal, but still...
But Armi Tage has very valid points, and I hope this is what devs are going to consider when fixing current bonus times (if the fix is really needed).
_______________________________________________
If ifs and ands were pots and pans,
I would grow mushrooms in my pants. |
Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2005.02.17 12:31:00 -
[64]
I got a Vengeance Deadspace mission lv4 with time bonus of 45mins. How the **** can anybody EVER do it in that amount of time? I estimate there are 20BS to kill, each from 500k to up to 2.5M ISK.
1 500k BS needs 7-8 salvos of torps => ~90s (rof 12.5s/Torp) each => 20 * 1,5M = 30Mins for BS only without refitting ammo and without killing any of the dozens of cruisers and friggs, not to mention the 1M-2.5M NPCs.
If it's ment to be done by gangs then Bountys have to be increased even more to make it valuable imho (otherwise even plag mining will make more isk).
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Uggster
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Posted - 2005.02.17 13:22:00 -
[65]
This idea may have been touched upon by others but if you cant complete your mission in time to get the bonus then wait till you have picked up all the loot, got a drink, and had a siggie and then complete the mission. The extra time is an investment in your own future.
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Morgan Atreus
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Posted - 2005.02.20 12:52:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Zrakor
Originally by: MaximvS
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I've just gotten Guristas Extravaganza this morning, and it's given me a bonus reward time of 45 minutes. I would love to meet the people who are doing this mission in that time so I can shake their hands! It took 2 of us in Ravens over 3 hours to do it the other day! There was no bonus reward or mission time the other day either.
This is a new mission, so it still has a default value. Give it a day or two and the mission will recieve a more sane value.
I did; it hasn't.
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Jenz
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Posted - 2005.02.20 14:15:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Zrakor
The 'nerfing' of the 'loot after mission completed' routine was a misunderstanding (i.e. the patch notes were misleading on that part). You can still warp back to your bookmark and loot the cans that were left behind after you have completed the mission.
To make things more realistic, they should arrange it so the deadspace area itself doesn't de-spawn after the mission is completed, at least not for a few hours or so. You'd have to pick up loot with an AB but that's not too much of a pain in a decent ship set up for speed.
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Terror DeBiaN
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Posted - 2005.03.10 22:45:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Terror DeBiaN on 10/03/2005 22:46:26
Originally by: Morgan Atreus
Originally by: Zrakor
Originally by: MaximvS
Originally by: Zrakor
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I've just gotten Guristas Extravaganza this morning, and it's given me a bonus reward time of 45 minutes. I would love to meet the people who are doing this mission in that time so I can shake their hands! It took 2 of us in Ravens over 3 hours to do it the other day! There was no bonus reward or mission time the other day either.
This is a new mission, so it still has a default value. Give it a day or two and the mission will recieve a more sane value.
I did; it hasn't.
I notice several deadspace missions are "stuck" on a 45 minute bonus time. Gurista Extravaganza is one of the major ones. Is it possible that people that turn the mission down are also getting their times "averaged" in? (IE. They turn down them mission in 5 minutes, so the mission stays at the default 45 minutes.) Please fix this, as 45 minutes is no where near enough time to complete this mission.
Terror
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2005.03.10 23:43:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Terror DeBiaN
I notice several deadspace missions are "stuck" on a 45 minute bonus time. Gurista Extravaganza is one of the major ones. Is it possible that people that turn the mission down are also getting their times "averaged" in? (IE. They turn down them mission in 5 minutes, so the mission stays at the default 45 minutes.) Please fix this, as 45 minutes is no where near enough time to complete this mission.
Terror
1. Please do not bump old threads, especially if your post's content isn't even about the same topic than the original thread.
2. Bug reports should go to http://bugs.eve-online.com/. Please include as much information as possible in your bug report, for example exact mission names, agent name/level/location, your standings etc.
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