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Deros
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Posted - 2005.02.02 16:57:00 -
[1]
Ok, so the changes i have tested so far to the 1400s aren't too bad, they are an improvement on what they were, if they hit the shots are now up from 250-350 to 450 or so. This is good. :)
However what the 1400's need to make them really feasable are a 100k warp in option in the game, optimal with phased plasme with a couple of tracking computers is ~45k, that is fine, ok, so you warp in @ 60km from an object or bookmark, by the time that you have targeted anything, they are already well under your optimal, and even with a MWD, which you cant run forever you wont outrun ships permanently.
Phased plasma is -25% range, +40% range gives approx a 100k optimal, which is pretty much useless at the current ranges.
The solution as i see it is more warp in distances, 60km helped, but further is needed imo.
Deros
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Hera III
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Posted - 2005.02.02 17:12:00 -
[2]
Hear Hear
First and Former North American Director of <FROG MORTON IND.> |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2005.02.02 17:48:00 -
[3]
2005.02.02 17:20:11 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Ammatar Navy Maller, wrecking for 1900.4 damage.
there a lot better plus u use them right u wont miss this was done at 60K range
i can hit cruiser at 25k with no real probs
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Hoolk
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:02:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Lord Anubis
2005.02.02 17:20:11 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Ammatar Navy Maller, wrecking for 1900.4 damage.
there a lot better plus u use them right u wont miss this was done at 60K range
i can hit cruiser at 25k with no real probs
Guess thats a mission ship moving straight towards you?
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:04:00 -
[5]
as i said before still think we need better tracking or at least an opt range incress so our peak ant at a short range
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lizanne
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:50:00 -
[6]
The problem with 100km warp is that "ennemies" jsute have to move at 101km then warp at 20km from where you are... 
Well! Jack-of-all-trade means less specialized... So fit different ammos in your 1400mm to suit possible cruiser attacks. You'll do less concentrated damage but you'll be able to attack from a wide variety of ranges.
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Deros
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:54:00 -
[7]
untrue, you cant warp unless you are 150k+ away from an object, so if they move away, u warp to them, and there has to be something around you for them to warp to.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:31:00 -
[8]
Yes, we need a 100km warp-in to help with all long range setups. An increase in ammo capacity wouldn't hurt.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hakera on 02/02/2005 20:00:17
post dps figures, one off wrecking shots dont tell you much except the upper limit which of course will be on average 10% higher than pre-patch.
And yes to fill their niche role as long range snipers you need longer warp ins or bm's until they are introduced, however dont rule out a 1200mm loadout and tank and 60-70k (beyong pulse range) its a very nice setup with only need for 1 rcu on the proper tanks while dishing some decent dmg now.
Also the boost is much more noticable on the small & med turrets where tracking was less of a problem so I would say polish your wolf/jaguar/claw/stiletto/muninn etc of first and play with that, the difference is much more apparant.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
lollerskates
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:37:00 -
[10]
warp to @ 100 option sounds good...
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:50:00 -
[11]
My 720's and 280's are much better now. Haven't tested 1400's since I've never used them before. I get constant 200+ hits on out of my 720's now.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Grimpak on 02/02/2005 20:14:54
*imagines how powerfull his T2 280s are in his jag now*
....realy need to test that
EDIT: and yes... 80km and 100km warp to option plz...
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Vicker Lahn'se
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Posted - 2005.02.03 01:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lizanne
The problem with 100km warp is that "ennemies" jsute have to move at 101km then warp at 20km from where you are...
Well! Jack-of-all-trade means less specialized... So fit different ammos in your 1400mm to suit possible cruiser attacks. You'll do less concentrated damage but you'll be able to attack from a wide variety of ranges.
Your warp drive cannot lock on to ships that aren't in your gang.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2005.02.03 02:17:00 -
[14]
definitely need the 100km warp in option. Gonna need it anyway when the dreadnaughts and XL turrets come in anyway.
Once they do a little drop down menu for 15, 20,40,60,80,100km, CCP would never have to mess with it again.
It's too sensible of a solution. Guess that means it will take about 6 months to implement, given the known track record.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.02.03 03:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hakera
wolf/jaguar/claw/stiletto/muninn etc of first and play with that, the difference is much more apparant.
Yeah, I noticed that 280s are pretty damn nice now on a rifter. Should be able to one-shot most frigates in a wolf now.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Daakkon
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Posted - 2005.02.03 03:52:00 -
[16]
they should give a 100km warp-in for those specific guns fitted
www.dark-cartel.com |
Deros
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Posted - 2005.02.03 17:16:00 -
[17]
now that would be interesting, 425mm Hybrids and 1400mm getting an extra option for long range.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.02.04 11:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lord Anubis
as i said before still think we need better tracking or at least an opt range incress so our peak ant at a short range
I assume you mean the DOT peak as in Hammer's graphs? And what you'd like is to shift the peak to the right. The trouble is, under the current mechanics, increasing optimal won't do that - it will produce a damage plateau, as seen (and widely moaned about) on the megapulse.
Originally by: Deros
now that would be interesting, 425mm Hybrids and 1400mm getting an extra option for long range.
The question is, would you put it on the gun, or the ships supposed to be using them? Cause if it's on the gun, I can see a lot of other setups incorporating a single 1400mm gun just to get the extra warp-in options - especially snipocs.
The big problem with the current combat system and shifting range peaks like that is that tracking and fall-off seem to have different practical effects. Fall-off effects are fixed, easily modelled and fairly easy to tweak. It is a long-range-limiting device that has no effect at closer ranges. Tracking, on the other hand has highly variable effects, and suffers from "effect drift". It's a short-range-limiting effect, but often ends up noticably supressing even long-range effects
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Deros
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Posted - 2005.02.04 14:34:00 -
[19]
i guess that may be true, but i suppose if the bonus was added to the ship then people would complain that their ship only has 2 bonuses, whereas those given it would appear to have 3.
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Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2005.02.04 15:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Muad 'dib on 04/02/2005 15:16:20
Edited by: Muad 'dib on 04/02/2005 15:14:52
y not give ship classes different warp in ranges?
Does a frig really need to warp in @ 60km, when it can warp out in a few seconds??
hows about. . . .
Frigs__________:15 30
Destroyers_____:15 30 45
AF_____________:15 30 45 60
Cruisers________:15 30 45 60
HAC___________:15 30 45 60 75
BattleCruisers__:15 30 45 60 75
BattleShips____:15 30 45 60 75 90
well something like that anyway 
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'/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.02.04 15:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Deros
i guess that may be true, but i suppose if the bonus was added to the ship then people would complain that their ship only has 2 bonuses, whereas those given it would appear to have 3.
Yeah, even if the 3 bonuses on the one ship only add up to be as useful as the 2 on the other ship. The number of bonuses isn't really as important as the overall benefit of them.
Though personally, I'd like the extra warp-in distances to be possible on any ship - I'm not sure of any reason why they shouldn't be - they'd be completely usless for most other ships anyway...just like "warp at 20km" is for 1400mm users.
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Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.02.04 16:15:00 -
[22]
Doesn't make a lot of sense to have long range sniper Set-ups and not a matching warp option.
15 20 40 60 80 100 for all ships sounds good, There are some nice cruiser class snipers out there as well.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
voidvim
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Posted - 2005.02.04 16:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Muad 'dib
hows about. . . .
Frigs__________:15 30
Destroyers_____:15 30 45
AF_____________:15 30 45 60
Cruisers________:15 30 45 60
HAC___________:15 30 45 60 75
BattleCruisers__:15 30 45 60 75
BattleShips____:15 30 45 60 75 90
well something like that anyway
this is not a bad idea
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.04 16:46:00 -
[24]
They should have a skill that adds predetermined warp in ranges. Level one you get 70km, lvl2 = 80km, lvl3 = 90km, lvl4 = 100km, lvl5 = 110km. Call it "Advanced Warpdrive Operation" and make it require Large Hybrid/Projectile level 5.
As a side note, maybe you have a skill that does the oposite and gives you 10km, 7.5km, 5km, 2.5km and 1km. Call that one "Precision Warping".
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Marnix
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Posted - 2005.02.04 16:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alowishus
They should have a skill that adds predetermined warp in ranges. Level one you get 70km, lvl2 = 80km, lvl3 = 90km, lvl4 = 100km, lvl5 = 110km. Call it "Advanced Warpdrive Operation" and make it require Large Hybrid/Projectile level 5.
As a side note, maybe you have a skill that does the oposite and gives you 10km, 7.5km, 5km, 2.5km and 1km. Call that one "Precision Warping".
What about Tachyons? And Beam lasers in general for that matter. Like it or not, theyre longrange guns.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.04 16:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Marnix
Originally by: Alowishus
They should have a skill that adds predetermined warp in ranges. Level one you get 70km, lvl2 = 80km, lvl3 = 90km, lvl4 = 100km, lvl5 = 110km. Call it "Advanced Warpdrive Operation" and make it require Large Hybrid/Projectile level 5.
As a side note, maybe you have a skill that does the oposite and gives you 10km, 7.5km, 5km, 2.5km and 1km. Call that one "Precision Warping".
What about Tachyons? And Beam lasers in general for that matter. Like it or not, theyre longrange guns.
Ok, how about this: It requires Large Rail/Arty/Beam SPECIALIZATION Level 1.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
BigJim Beef
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Posted - 2005.02.04 18:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: Marnix
Originally by: Alowishus
They should have a skill that adds predetermined warp in ranges. Level one you get 70km, lvl2 = 80km, lvl3 = 90km, lvl4 = 100km, lvl5 = 110km. Call it "Advanced Warpdrive Operation" and make it require Large Hybrid/Projectile level 5.
As a side note, maybe you have a skill that does the oposite and gives you 10km, 7.5km, 5km, 2.5km and 1km. Call that one "Precision Warping".
What about Tachyons? And Beam lasers in general for that matter. Like it or not, theyre longrange guns.
Ok, how about this: It requires Large Rail/Arty/Beam SPECIALIZATION Level 1.
Or maybe something like warp drive op 4 and long range targetting 4?
As for Precision warping, warp drive op 4 and one of the nav skills at 4 maybe?
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Simon Greed
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Posted - 2005.02.04 19:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alowishus
They should have a skill that adds predetermined warp in ranges. Level one you get 70km, lvl2 = 80km, lvl3 = 90km, lvl4 = 100km, lvl5 = 110km. Call it "Advanced Warpdrive Operation" and make it require Large Hybrid/Projectile level 5.
Best idea ever! It would indeed increase the enjoyment for Minmatars, as well as other races. It would also add more tactics to PvP as well as PvE.
Originally by: Alowishus
As a side note, maybe you have a skill that does the oposite and gives you 10km, 7.5km, 5km, 2.5km and 1km. Call that one "Precision Warping".
Also a good idea, but I fear that it doesn't go along with current insta-jumping problem i hear CCP is working on...
/Simon Greed
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Marnix
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Posted - 2005.02.04 19:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Alowishus
Ok, how about this: It requires Large Rail/Arty/Beam SPECIALIZATION Level 1.
Sounds good. Sounds awesome, actually.
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Ugleb
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Posted - 2005.02.07 01:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alowishus
They should have a skill that adds predetermined warp in ranges. Level one you get 70km, lvl2 = 80km, lvl3 = 90km, lvl4 = 100km, lvl5 = 110km. Call it "Advanced Warpdrive Operation" and make it require Large Hybrid/Projectile level 5.
As a side note, maybe you have a skill that does the oposite and gives you 10km, 7.5km, 5km, 2.5km and 1km. Call that one "Precision Warping".
I like the advanced warpdrive operation skill alot. Fire support/artillery is designed to be used at long range, so the option to star at long ranfe should exist. Linking it to skills also gives older characters room to refine their specialisation.
Precision warping would lead make it impossible the blockade stations/gates I think, which makes it very hard to catch someone who doesnt want to be caught. If you cant trap an oppoenent its going to make wars very frustrating to fight, as your opponent wont fight at all unless he thinks he has you outgunned. It's hard enough as it is now with bookmarked insta jumps.
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