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Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2011.03.15 13:49:00 -
[1]
In the wake of the Japanese nuclear reactor problems the german government has decided to temporarily take 7 reactors of the net.
Germany is in a position to do that, since only about 20% of the german energy comes from nuclear power plants.
Talk in the german government and opposition is that the end of the "nuclear age" for germany might be close.
Interesting developments indeed.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.15 14:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/03/2011 14:50:22
All German nuclear power plants were scheduled to be shut down by 2020, but the decision was reverted in early 2010, instead opting for extensive reviews of existing nuclear plants. Germany took down the OLDEST reactors (30-40 years old ones) because yesterday, Merkel SUSPENDED the nuclear extension law for three months, and they'll use this downtime for safety reviews... after which they might just as well go back online if no problems are found, otherwise they'll only go back after the inevitable retrofits. It's a political knee-jerk reaction which is not really justified. One of those seven reactors that is considered "taken down" was already offline for the past almost 4 years, and another one was already scheduled for review downtime next week. The seven that are now offline have a 7.2 GW combined capacity, the 10 still operational roughly 13.1 GW combined capacity. Long-term commitment electricity prices spiked over +10% since yesterday already. This alone should give pause to any politicians, the populace screaming about increased energy bills will trump 3-month-old disaster news from the other side of the globe when summer hits and everybody wants their AC on full time.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.03.15 15:13:00 -
[3]
Man what happened to those people, they used to be so enterprising and daring, what a bunch of pussies, they need to adolf it up!
Delenda est achura. |
Femaref
Armageddon Day WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.03.15 15:33:00 -
[4]
Akita is right. The opposition against nuclear power plants is so big in this country. The problem is, that it's inhibiting necessary upgrades to the plants to make them safer, which makes them more dangerous. Cat biting its own tail here. And when some reactor explodes, all the opposition will do is point at it "we've told you". No, it exploded because you ****ing blocked the necessary upgrades making them safer in the first place.
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Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
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Posted - 2011.03.15 16:58:00 -
[5]
Where's Adolf?
..................................................
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:20:00 -
[6]
The thing with nuclear power is that people are afraid of it. They're used to coal/Oil/NG powered plants - all of which have varying degrees of impacts on the environment.
So they don't think anything at all about all the people who die mining coal or drilling for oil or of respiratory ailments. They also proceed blithely down their highways where the death toll exceeds most wars - and is unending.
But - some nuclear plant has a problem and people are shaking in their boots.
Yes - we pay a price for our technological civilization - and - nature can really kick the stuffings out of us but that is part of life on this planet.
You look at Chernobyl, Bhopal, The BP Gulf Spill, The Exxon Valdez and any number of other industrial accidents - and the human toll is dwarfed by the things that nature has done. In 1970 alone the Bhola Cyclone killed 500,000 people in Bangladesh. Then you look at the death toll for the Indonesian Tsunami and the regional economic damage of Katrina - not to mention the damage and death toll caused by the earth quake and tsunami in Japan which their nuclear problems are part of.
You don't have governments considering they - stop using chemicals, or cars, or fossil fuels or move out of the worlds coastal areas just because millions of people have died - but - have a nuclear plant with a problem and it's "Oh my God! We've got to stop all the nuclear!"
Yes - if you screw up - or if nature overwhelms your precautions - people can die from nuclear power. So? People die all the time - and they die in droves from all kinds of things - but that doesn't stop us. We mourn the dead, fix the damage, learn from what happened - and then move on. That is what humans have done as long as they've been on this planet - and that is what we should do now.
Comparing the rest of what's happened in Japan and what is going on in Libya right now - we should keep our nuclear problems in perspective and not go into a world wide panic over them.
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Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Slave 775 on 15/03/2011 19:33:44
Originally by: Wendat Huron Man what happened to those people, they used to be so enterprising and daring, what a bunch of pussies, they need to adolf it up!
I am german and i cant agree more. Really a shame to see germany become a contry of pussies.
Yet i still agree with shuting the reactors down, simply because i hate the german energy companys for lobbying and being monopolists. This suckers have far to much influence on our goverment.
Centuries ago, the Bible warned of dangers posed by evil men described as master[s] at evil ideas and scheming to do bad. (Proverbs 24:8) PRIVATEERS Officialy nerfed by CCP 05/07 |
Bek Thyron
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:48:00 -
[8]
Yeah right.
Ok, lets take a look: We (Germany) shut down our own reactors. OHMAGAWD NO POWER!! (power shortages) LETS BUY POWER FROM NEIGHBOURS!!! GUD IDEA! (we buy power from France...oh ****ing wait. Wait wait wait, where does Frances electricity comes from? Tip: Not from solar or wind reactors.)
**** **** Please send me mail if you want to sell big piles of corpses. Must be in mint condition. (space-frozen)
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bek Thyron Yeah right.
Ok, lets take a look: We (Germany) shut down our own reactors. OHMAGAWD NO POWER!! (power shortages) LETS BUY POWER FROM NEIGHBOURS!!! GUD IDEA! (we buy power from France...oh ****ing wait. Wait wait wait, where does Frances electricity comes from? Tip: Not from solar or wind reactors.)
The difference is that france takes all the risk for supplying you power made from a nuclear plant whilst you get to refit yours so when they come back online they won't blow up and make all the cows glow in the dark.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:17:00 -
[10]
That's just a ploy to appease the public and hippes that nuclear power is all safe and so on, so that German can have cheap energy in the future as well.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Bek Thyron Yeah right.
Ok, lets take a look: We (Germany) shut down our own reactors. OHMAGAWD NO POWER!! (power shortages) LETS BUY POWER FROM NEIGHBOURS!!! GUD IDEA! (we buy power from France...oh ****ing wait. Wait wait wait, where does Frances electricity comes from? Tip: Not from solar or wind reactors.)
The difference is that france takes all the risk for supplying you power made from a nuclear plant whilst you get to refit yours so when they come back online they won't blow up and make all the cows glow in the dark.
Germany is currently exporting 17 TW (Terrawatt) of electricity to bordering countries per year.
Even if the 7 reactors were to stay offline permanently, germany would still have an energy surplus of 2 TW per year.
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Xia Kairui
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
It's a political knee-jerk reaction which is not really justified.
There is one big justification: this year there are a ton of elections here in Germany. If they promise to do something (however meaningful or not) they might save what is most dear to them: their power.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.15 21:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xia Kairui
Originally by: Akita T It's a political knee-jerk reaction which is not really justified.
There is one big justification: this year there are a ton of elections here in Germany. If they promise to do something (however meaningful or not) they might save what is most dear to them: their power.
Well, yeah, if you put it that way, true That still doesn't make it "right" though _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.15 21:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Bek Thyron Yeah right.
Ok, lets take a look: We (Germany) shut down our own reactors. OHMAGAWD NO POWER!! (power shortages) LETS BUY POWER FROM NEIGHBOURS!!! GUD IDEA! (we buy power from France...oh ****ing wait. Wait wait wait, where does Frances electricity comes from? Tip: Not from solar or wind reactors.)
The difference is that france takes all the risk for supplying you power made from a nuclear plant whilst you get to refit yours so when they come back online they won't blow up and make all the cows glow in the dark.
Yeah, but...what direction does the wind blow across Europe? Fallout blasted into the air won't stop at the border.
US is going through similar pants-on-fire moment, but because the commercial energy giants hold more sway over gov't than environmentalists, they're not going to such extremes. They are however re-evaluating future nuke plant construction. Primary complaint...not cost-effective. Some would argue that building them is not cost-effective due to the years of legal wrangling, permitting, fights with NIMBYS, etc to get them built.
Either way, some of those smart scientist fellas need to come up with an effing plan.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.03.15 21:48:00 -
[15]
The reaction to the EBIL NUCLEAR threat is just bonkers.
If anything this tragic event has proven how well the reactors are built, a 9.0 magnitude earthquake, a 30+ foot Tsumami and 3 (4?) explosions that have wrecked the reactor buildings. I'm sorry if they survive that with "minimal" damage (read minor radiation release) I'm pretty sure they wont end the world. Its crackers that the Germans have basically decided that a few crackpots without any knowledge of how nuclear power works should force the issue. By all means scrap your generators but seriously you would have 3 options:
1) Increase the carbon output to compensate. (Wind/Solar/Hydro can't produce enough to help) 2) Stop using 20% of your electricity. 3) Keep using a relatively safe source of electricity.
It really doesn't help the media screaming and shouting about radiation and the fact it will kill everyone!!!!!! That's total CARP, yes, radiation is bad but if what's leaking has a half life of a few hours by the time people move back home the stuff is gone. There was a scientist on the BBC today saying that basically until this huge spike the radiation that was leaking (for a person not standing directly under the reactor) was around the same as that people are exposed to by living in Cornwall (south-west England), contrary to popular belief the Cornish ain't horribly deformed humans with skin falling off.
The Japanese are doing and exceedingly good job dealing with everything and I cant imagine any other country in the world handling it in such a calm but efficient way. Rest of the world CALM DOWN, stop panicking and do everything you can to help Japan.
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.03.15 22:06:00 -
[16]
How do you say wuss in German?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.15 22:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 15/03/2011 20:32:18
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Bek Thyron Yeah right.
Ok, lets take a look: We (Germany) shut down our own reactors. OHMAGAWD NO POWER!! (power shortages) LETS BUY POWER FROM NEIGHBOURS!!! GUD IDEA! (we buy power from France...oh ****ing wait. Wait wait wait, where does Frances electricity comes from? Tip: Not from solar or wind reactors.)
The difference is that france takes all the risk for supplying you power made from a nuclear plant whilst you get to refit yours so when they come back online they won't blow up and make all the cows glow in the dark.
Germany is currently exporting 17 TW (Terrawatt) of electricity to bordering countries per year.
Even if the 7 reactors were to stay offline permanently, germany would still have an electricity surplus of 2 TW per year.
This is extra funny since you explain what TW means, but then you completely fail at units yourself. TW/year is not the unit you are looking for, how about you just give it in GW (no not per year, just GW).
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.15 22:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Caleidascope How do you say wuss in German?
vuss? |
ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Caleidascope How do you say wuss in German?
The same as all over the place, politician.
Or in our specific case: politician-who-gets-payed-by-big-energy-and realizes-everybody-is-on-to-her(him)
As for you pro-Atom retSrds, have fun with the coming Atomic volcano. Are you getting payed to spout false Atom-lobby propaganda?
To the especially dense dude/thread-winner, admirer of the phenomenal safety of atomic reactors. Try to remember what happens after anything but an atomic reactor explodes. Yeah, absolutely nothing! Surely not a core meltdown that makes whole counties uninhabitable for millions of years.
For a change I¦m happy to live in a country that isn¦t so braindead in that specific area. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Buzzmong on 15/03/2011 23:40:31
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
To the especially dense dude/thread-winner, admirer of the phenomenal safety of atomic reactors. Try to remember what happens after anything but an atomic reactor explodes. Yeah, absolutely nothing! Surely not a core meltdown that makes whole counties uninhabitable for millions of years.
Make your mind up as to what type of nuclear disaster you're referring to.
Three Mile Island was a (partial) core meltdown. All that's left is a small radioactive slag pit that's easily contained. No deaths have resulted. That's what's probably going to happen in Japan unless they can cool the reactors and the spent fuel rods.
Chernobyl was unique in that it was a series of explosions. The first explosion took the lid off the containment vessel, the second explosion shed some of the core and did more damage, and what was left of the molton core burned due to being exposed to the atmosphere. It was mostly the fire that caused the massive spread of radioactive particles.
FWIW, what happened at Chernobyl will never happen again because reactors are not only designed to behave differently, but the containment has been massively ramped up to be able to contain the explosion (namely the reactor unit might pop, but it would still be within the containment vessel).
On a personal standpoint, I'm somewhat against nuclear fission anyway, far too many after products outside of the new reactor designs under proposal (thorium cycle based), however it's an acceptable stepping stone while nuclear fission gets harnessed. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
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Benco97
Gallente Terraprobe Dynamics
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:56:00 -
[21]
Three-year household breeder reactors. The technology exists and is in use, just not by the public.
There's a good reason why use normal folks won't see them though and it's got nothing at all to do with safety. ______________________________________________
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak As for you pro-Atom retSrds, have fun with the coming Atomic volcano. Are you getting payed to spout false Atom-lobby propaganda? To the especially dense dude/thread-winner, admirer of the phenomenal safety of atomic reactors. Try to remember what happens after anything but an atomic reactor explodes. Yeah, absolutely nothing! Surely not a core meltdown that makes whole counties uninhabitable for millions of years.
Actually, some things exploding in A LOT of places are potentially nastier than an explosion somewhere at an atomic reactor. Hey, what do you know, explosion at an oil rig, guess what, nice disaster ! How about chemical plant explosion ? Screw that, explosion in just about any kind of manufacturing plant for any reason !
Also, the worst possible nuclear reactor accident (yes, it was one of the worst possible scenarios that could possibly happen with OLD style reactors, which is bordering on the impossible with newer type reactors), the one at Chernobyl, which happened 25 years ago... you only have a ~30 km radius zone that's evacuated, and thousands of people are still employed to work inside that area in shifts to study the effects of the accident. So, whoop-tee-frickin-do about the dangers. The smallest nuclear blast tests that happened are worse than that. Hell, build one in the middle of nowhere AND DEEP UNDERGROUND, so even if it blows, almost nobody would be affected. But it won't blow anyway... not if you build it properly with the technology available today (as opposed to, oh, 30-40 years ago) and it's monitored constantly.
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:12:00 -
[23]
bloom boxs ftw?
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: Caleidascope How do you say wuss in German?
The same as all over the place, politician.
Or in our specific case: politician-who-gets-payed-by-big-energy-and realizes-everybody-is-on-to-her(him)
As for you pro-Atom retSrds, have fun with the coming Atomic volcano. Are you getting payed to spout false Atom-lobby propaganda?
To the especially dense dude/thread-winner, admirer of the phenomenal safety of atomic reactors. Try to remember what happens after anything but an atomic reactor explodes. Yeah, absolutely nothing! Surely not a core meltdown that makes whole counties uninhabitable for millions of years.
For a change I¦m happy to live in a country that isn¦t so braindead in that specific area.
Erm.... sorry Nuclear reactors CANT explode: Firstly, the nuclear material isnt rich enough (IE doesn't have enough atoms that will allow the rods to undergo uncontrolled fission). Secondly, the fuel isn't stored in sufficient quantities to create a run away nuclear event with such impure rods. Thirdly, reactors have control rods designed to impede the fission process and these worked perfectly in the Japan reactors when the earthquake struck.
You are probably basing you're assumption off the explosions which occurred over the past few days, well that was a Hydrogen build up outside the reactor but within the containment building and the radio isotopes released were minimal and had short half-lives (a few days iirc) so were already talking around 50% of it is gone. If you want to use Chernobyl as your argument then you need to read up on it most of the radiation was spread because of the reactor fire caused by a badly designed reactor and the containment building falling in to the reactor.
As pointed out above I also remember an oil rig exploding recently, would love to drop you into a group of southern American fishermen and let you argue that explosion didn't have any other effects other than a bit a smoke. There is inherent dangers/environmental issues in all forms of power generation, if Nuclear is so bad then shouldn't we ban Hydro its far more deadly?
Next you'll be telling us Nuclear Fusion is deadly and shouldn't be developed.
BTW I'm an IT contractor who has a degree in Physics. I'm not some crackpot on the bankroll of a nuclear power company and by the sounds of it I have considerably more understanding of how a nuclear reactor works that you do.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:59:00 -
[25]
Who needs nuclear power when we have electricity.
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Alotta Baggage
Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail
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Posted - 2011.03.16 02:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: ivar R'dhak As for you pro-Atom retSrds, have fun with the coming Atomic volcano. Are you getting payed to spout false Atom-lobby propaganda? To the especially dense dude/thread-winner, admirer of the phenomenal safety of atomic reactors. Try to remember what happens after anything but an atomic reactor explodes. Yeah, absolutely nothing! Surely not a core meltdown that makes whole counties uninhabitable for millions of years.
Actually, some things exploding in A LOT of places are potentially nastier than an explosion somewhere at an atomic reactor. Hey, what do you know, explosion at an oil rig, guess what, nice disaster ! How about chemical plant explosion ? Screw that, explosion in just about any kind of manufacturing plant for any reason !
Also, the worst possible nuclear reactor accident (yes, it was one of the worst possible scenarios that could possibly happen with OLD style reactors, which is bordering on the impossible with newer type reactors), the one at Chernobyl, which happened 25 years ago... you only have a ~30 km radius zone that's evacuated, and thousands of people are still employed to work inside that area in shifts to study the effects of the accident. So, whoop-tee-frickin-do about the dangers. The smallest nuclear blast tests that happened are worse than that. Hell, build one in the middle of nowhere AND DEEP UNDERGROUND, so even if it blows, almost nobody would be affected. But it won't blow anyway... not if you build it properly with the technology available today (as opposed to, oh, 30-40 years ago) and it's monitored constantly.
Explosion at a bunny farm would be the most horrible
Originally by: Valkoinen Heteromies
I for one would love to be able to walk on stations and fly spaceships in the body of a little cute catgirl!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.16 02:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alotta Baggage Explosion at a bunny farm would be the most horrible
Hey, don't joke about (population) explosion of bunnies, the Australians might take offense with that !
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2011.03.16 02:36:00 -
[28]
The whole world is going emo pussies.
The way I see it is **** happens. If a quake strikes somewhere and a nuke reactor spews bad stuff out and thousands breathe it in, well, stuff happens. It's life. A temporary inconvenience. Live life and enjoy it. It goes by way too fast. All this knee jerking worrying is typical of pussies. There's noe sense in being a *****. You can't live forever.
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.16 04:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Alotta Baggage Explosion at a bunny farm would be the most horrible
Hey, don't joke about (population) explosion of bunnies, the Australians might take offense with that !
If you mess with Australians, we go bio-warfare on your ass __________ A note on voting for CSM 6: Do not vote for someone just because they named issues that you support, instead try to gauge the thinking behind them and try to vote for someone who w |
Reiisha
EVE University
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Posted - 2011.03.16 06:09:00 -
[30]
It's pretty funny. It's like the Germans think that they too will soon be hit by a scale 9 earthquake and a tsunami, because both of those were needed to do the damage to the Japanese reactors.
Of course, that's ignoring the fact that such an earthquake is almost impossible in Europe and a tsunami wouldn't get far given the country is on average pretty far above sea level - The reactors are anyway.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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