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Isn't it more fun being evil?

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Bad Bobby Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk Some people like to bring morality into EVE because it improves their game experience. Some people like to flush morality down the toilet because it improves their game experience. Yes, they are called roleplayers. Even if they don't see themselves as such. So you are a roleplayer? Unless you are an "evil" guy in real life, then YOU are the one playing the role and all those people that abide by laws, or think stealing is morally wrong, are the ones being themselves ie NOT roleplayers. I don't see it that way. I don't consider morality to be relevant within a game. I believe that those that do are roleplayers. They are giving moral meaning to events within a computer game. I don't consider myself as "evil" within the game, I don't consider the concepts of "good" or "evil" to be relevant or even exist beyond roleplaying and background fiction within the game. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with roleplaying and I'm not saying that I don't on occasion indulge in it in a limited way, but as a rule I play the game no differently than I would play space invaders. I push buttons, kill the aliens and try to get a high score.
Nathan Jameson Talocan Vanguard Talocan United	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:39:00 - [32] Edited by: Nathan Jameson on 18/03/2011 13:39:53 Originally by: Hel O'Ween Evil = easy & lazy. It's as simple as that. Not if you consider how much work went into Bad Bobby's scheme, Helicity's periodic Hulkageddons, etc. Though I understand your point that a lot of "evil" occurs because being "good" gets to require too much work. I'm kind of a mix of both myself, I guess. I love being trustworthy enough as a player to build relationships and an empire; but at the same time, I love blowing up people's POS's and everything in them simply because I can. Edit: Woah! Bad Bobby. Didn't see you there. Stop sneaking up on me like that.
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:45:00 - [33] Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk Originally by: Bad Bobby I was referring entirely to my own perspective. I am not a roleplayer. For me the game is a game and nothing more. I don't consider the morality of separating a person from their ship in PvP and I don't consider the morality of separating a person from their isk in a scam. For me, morality doesn't come in to it because I am playing a PvP orientated game where everyone risks their assets by design. Yet you refer to your 'friends and team-mates' and tell us how you didn't scam them and wouldn't shoot them. What else apart from morality drives you to do that? Because they are on my team. In most situations it is tactically unwise to shoot ones own team. Fixing alliance tournaments aside, it doesn't generally help you win.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk Some people like to bring morality into EVE because it improves their game experience. Some people like to flush morality down the toilet because it improves their game experience. Yes, they are called roleplayers. Even if they don't see themselves as such. So you are a roleplayer? Unless you are an "evil" guy in real life, then YOU are the one playing the role and all those people that abide by laws, or think stealing is morally wrong, are the ones being themselves ie NOT roleplayers. I don't see it that way. I don't consider morality to be relevant within a game. I believe that those that do are roleplayers. They are giving moral meaning to events within a computer game. I don't consider myself as "evil" within the game, I don't consider the concepts of "good" or "evil" to be relevant or even exist beyond roleplaying and background fiction within the game. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with roleplaying and I'm not saying that I don't on occasion indulge in it in a limited way, but as a rule I play the game no differently than I would play space invaders. I push buttons, kill the aliens and try to get a high score. The very definition would be someone who plays a role - you are not evil in real life, yet you are one of the "bad guys" in this game. The other people are not evil in real life, and they are one of the "good guys" in this game. You are the role player. It's not an insult, as you said, it's the truth though - you don't have to try and justify what you did or whatever, it's OK to scam in this game according to it's rules, so stop being embarrassed about it.
Lauren Hellfury Full Pocket Aggro	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:57:00 - [35] and therein lies the crux. It's within the game rules, so he's a good guy because he is playing by the rules.
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:04:00 - [36] Not a market discussion topic , reported ...
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Bad Bobby I don't think I've become a less intelligent poster I don't dispute that, but whatever you'll say will be easily trolled, considered dubious at best and so on. You are sort of trapped. Originally by: Bad Bobby All my friends that invested were refunded in full and some were given the chance to sell their shares, once the scam had been executed but before it was reported, for extra profit But now how do they know that you are not going to pull the same stunt on them some day, for whatever newfound convenience you discovered on the run? Players in EvE start with a "don't trust anyone because you never know" bias already. In your case they DO know that you have done it once, why not again? Originally by: Caldariftw123 So you are a roleplayer? Unless you are an "evil" guy in real life, then YOU are the one playing the role and all those people that abide by laws, or think stealing is morally wrong, are the ones being themselves ie NOT roleplayers. You said exactly what I was about to. Also, by stating that it'd be unwise to shoot on his own team mates it shows an utilitaristic view. "It's good for my aims => I act good. It's irrelevant => I act bad.". Since most things are irrelevant to one's life / aims then by default such personality will try squeeze out value of the next guy with little remorse. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Caldariftw123 So you are a roleplayer? Unless you are an "evil" guy in real life, then YOU are the one playing the role and all those people that abide by laws, or think stealing is morally wrong, are the ones being themselves ie NOT roleplayers. I don't see it that way. I don't consider morality to be relevant within a game. I believe that those that do are roleplayers. They are giving moral meaning to events within a computer game. I don't consider myself as "evil" within the game, I don't consider the concepts of "good" or "evil" to be relevant or even exist beyond roleplaying and background fiction within the game. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with roleplaying and I'm not saying that I don't on occasion indulge in it in a limited way, but as a rule I play the game no differently than I would play space invaders. I push buttons, kill the aliens and try to get a high score. The very definition would be someone who plays a role - you are not evil in real life, yet you are one of the "bad guys" in this game. The other people are not evil in real life, and they are one of the "good guys" in this game. You are the role player. It's not an insult, as you said, it's the truth though - you don't have to try and justify what you did or whatever, it's OK to scam in this game according to it's rules, so stop being embarrassed about it. No, I don't assume a role when playing EVE. I'm just myself. I don't select my actions based on what my chosen persona would do in a given situation, I do what I would do in a given situation. All those situations occur within a game, so I'm not doing what I would do if I was a real spaceship captain, I'm doing what I would do as a person playing internet spaceships. There is no make-believe going on in my playstyle and I don't dress up in funny hats when I go out pirating... ...thinking about it though, I have been known to shout "yarrr!!!" on occasion... so maybe I am a closet roleplayer after all.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Nathan Jameson Edited by: Nathan Jameson on 18/03/2011 13:39:53 Originally by: Hel O'Ween Evil = easy & lazy. It's as simple as that. Not if you consider how much work went into Bad Bobby's scheme, Helicity's periodic Hulkageddons, etc. Though I understand your point that a lot of "evil" occurs because being "good" gets to require too much work. I disagree entirely with this, the WORK part of his enterprise was 'being good' and he continues that enterprise today, the easy part was the decision and effort required to scam. It wasn't some giant effort to scam everyone out of the isk, it was an effort to build a legitimate business which when a hole in the security presented itself allowed him the easy option of cutting the investors out of the equation and continuing the business solo. Helicity puts quite a bit of work into hulkageddon, which I don't see as "evil" - there is no betrayal involved, which makes it less morally ambiguous than something like an MD scam. It is, however, quite a bit of work and the effort required to build the business and run it legitimately is real - the EASY option would be for Hulkageddon V to scam the prize money, that would be EASY, and it would be lame.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Caldariftw123 So you are a roleplayer? Unless you are an "evil" guy in real life, then YOU are the one playing the role and all those people that abide by laws, or think stealing is morally wrong, are the ones being themselves ie NOT roleplayers. I don't see it that way. I don't consider morality to be relevant within a game. I believe that those that do are roleplayers. They are giving moral meaning to events within a computer game. I don't consider myself as "evil" within the game, I don't consider the concepts of "good" or "evil" to be relevant or even exist beyond roleplaying and background fiction within the game. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with roleplaying and I'm not saying that I don't on occasion indulge in it in a limited way, but as a rule I play the game no differently than I would play space invaders. I push buttons, kill the aliens and try to get a high score. The very definition would be someone who plays a role - you are not evil in real life, yet you are one of the "bad guys" in this game. The other people are not evil in real life, and they are one of the "good guys" in this game. You are the role player. It's not an insult, as you said, it's the truth though - you don't have to try and justify what you did or whatever, it's OK to scam in this game according to it's rules, so stop being embarrassed about it. No, I don't assume a role when playing EVE. I'm just myself. I don't select my actions based on what my chosen persona would do in a given situation, I do what I would do in a given situation. All those situations occur within a game, so I'm not doing what I would do if I was a real spaceship captain, I'm doing what I would do as a person playing internet spaceships. There is no make-believe going on in my playstyle and I don't dress up in funny hats when I go out pirating... ...thinking about it though, I have been known to shout "yarrr!!!" on occasion... so maybe I am a closet roleplayer after all. See you are equating roleplay with something negative. It's not. You played the role of someone running a legitimate business, and then betrayed the investor trust. Unless you are saying you would build a legitimate business in real life and then steal from it, then you roleplayed in this game as someone other than your natural self.

Bad Bobby Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:51:00 - [41] Originally by: Caldariftw123 You played the role of someone running a legitimate business, and then betrayed the investor trust. Unless you are saying you would build a legitimate business in real life and then steal from it, then you roleplayed in this game as someone other than your natural self. You have a different view of roleplaying to me. I associate it with make-believe, immersion and adopting a persona. You appear to see it as doing anything within a game. So we're not really talking about the same thing when we use the word.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.03.18 17:08:00 - [42] There's a simple answer to the Op's question - the answer is "no". I don't view Cosmoray or bad bobby as "evil" just as complete failures who couldn't run a pretend internet bizniz at 3% interest per month. Where is their honour, their sense of achievment, their self-esteem? They don't have any, and they enjoy this to compensate for their failures in their real lives. Srsly, is just sad - it's pathetic to betray your friends who respected you and trusted you just to get your own back because you had a bad day at work or whatever. I don't understand the mentality of thse scammers but they are clearly self-destructive losers.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.03.18 17:55:00 - [43] Originally by: cosmoray When I play Eve I just get to be an ass. You were an arse when you were pretending to be a good guy too. I guess you just can't shake some characteristics. Quote: One of the things that killed me here was the morph into everything being a perfect world, morals, living a perfect life, and lots of pointless VV threads. I thought it was all part of an evil masterplan worked out from the start? Are you now saying 'MD made me do it'? Btw - Any response to the rumours about you getting a bunch of accounts with most of your assets on them banned for connection to RMT laundering?
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:06:00 - [44] I think its cute how the "evil" term gets thrown around and used here. Evil is many rather unsavoury acts you can commit IRL, which I would not go in detail here. But stealing a rather mediocre amount of space money over however many years? Come on, you are team rocket jumping from a bush somewhere and asking for a pikachu. Where's the Evil? The rumors I've heard go from getting caught rmt'ing and having a few important money mule accounts deleted, to simply being a failure at business and choosing the "just according to keikaku" escape pod. But even if your version was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but, then you still failed. None of that is evil, rather, its actually fairly pathetic. Bad Bobby is the only one here that gets to wear the "Master Plan" cap and its more of a stylistic role playing choice "And now, for something completely different, I take ur isks!" which at least had some sort of plan and a successful execution. Yours is just bad Cosmo. But hardly evil. Hell, Erectus Trolleptor may be more evil than you could ever be. And he is the guy gloating about how he stole 5 bil (talk about sad ;/). You are more of a failure. Don't take this the wrong way, from hanging out you seemed pretty chill, but a pear is a pear and a failed space business man is a failed space businessman.
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:08:00 - [45] Btw - Any response to the rumours about you getting a bunch of accounts with most of your assets on them banned for connection to RMT laundering? I can state categorically that I never RMT'd any of my assets or ISK
RAW23	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:11:00 - [46] Edited by: RAW23 on 18/03/2011 18:12:17 Originally by: cosmoray Quote: Btw - Any response to the rumours about you getting a bunch of accounts with most of your assets on them banned for connection to RMT laundering? I can state categorically that I never RMT'd any of my assets or ISK Hmmm ... nicely equivocal. The claim was that your loan service was used as a fallback by RMTers when they didn't have sufficient cash to hand, not that you actually engaged in RMT yourself. Did you have any accounts banned?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:14:00 - [47] Originally by: RAW23 I thought it was all part of an evil masterplan worked out from the start? Are you now saying 'MD made me do it' I want to add my experience about this. You know you don't usually find someone talking about his defects on MD (but you may find a lot of posts of mine doing so). You know you don't usually find someone thanking others expecially in EvE. But - as I have done in the past - I feel no remorse stating my true feelings: I am thankful to MD. It did not push me to become "evil". On the contrary, I came to MD because I was attracted by something I did not know at all: business, finance. I was amazed that people could build a whole social infrastructure with bonds, IPOs, banks... It's just huge! And then I found many people - some became friends - to teach me so many things. Finance and much more... it all started off MD. After I lost my job (probably forever, no way a 40 old can get employed again with dignity here), I actually LIVE because of what MD teached me. It pushed me to explore RL finance and trading and now I may afford a crappy life but still ... a life. I can't even imagine how someone would thrash the learning opportunities spread all over MD. Much less why he would become "evil" because of them. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:29:00 - [48] I can confirm that I only have 1 account left. The Cosmoray account.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Caldariftw123 You played the role of someone running a legitimate business, and then betrayed the investor trust. Unless you are saying you would build a legitimate business in real life and then steal from it, then you roleplayed in this game as someone other than your natural self. You have a different view of roleplaying to me. I associate it with make-believe, immersion and adopting a persona. You appear to see it as doing anything within a game. So we're not really talking about the same thing when we use the word. I believe there's a distinction to be made between roleplaying as an evil character and compulsion. On a beautiful summer day, I was playing BF2 on an obscure server that had little to no maintenance from admins (later it became my favorite server), when I noticed players complaining about getting teamkilled. The guy's name was LTyear (cant remember the exact year) and he immediately peaked my attention. An absolutely lousy player by any standards, I've killed him easily the very moment he approached me, though what he lacked in aiming skills, he compensated by sheer determination: no matter how many times he got killed, he kept coming and teamkilling unaware teammates. Speaking of my team, those idiots would not have been able to get anything done even if their lives depended on it, we were losing round after round. At the beginning of the next round, I've sent a team message warning about the imperiousness of securing the central hill, an excellent vantage point that would later decided the outcome of the round. No one listened and despite my best efforts we lost. I've picked the engineer kit, pointed the shotgun at the teammate closest to me and shot him. I immediately felt better, my anger slowly melted away only to be replaced by a sadistic pleasure as the second and third victim fell. At that point, even if I wanted to stop I couldn't. I've managed to convince LT that we were on the same side, and proceeded to eradicate our team. T'was one of the most intense and rewarding experience in my life. There was a problem though... a top player like me was way more effective than what LT had done so far and pretty soon the rest of the server population could no longer ignore our rampage. I did get LT's mail address though before the kick/ban vote was finalized. Haven't seen him again in the game though. The best game to teamkill to your heart's content is BF BC2 though, simply because with the medic kit you can revive your victims and teamkill them again. There's nothing like standing atop of your victim with the defibrillator, reviving him and in the next second one shooting him as he tries to run away. Black Sun Empire

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:53:00 - [50] Moved from Market Discussions Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online


Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Caldariftw123 You played the role of someone running a legitimate business, and then betrayed the investor trust. Unless you are saying you would build a legitimate business in real life and then steal from it, then you roleplayed in this game as someone other than your natural self. You have a different view of roleplaying to me. I associate it with make-believe, immersion and adopting a persona. You appear to see it as doing anything within a game. So we're not really talking about the same thing when we use the word. No, if you blow up a ship or you conquer some 0.0 alliance territory or construct a titan with your industrial empire then you are doing something inside the game. If you set up a fake business on the MD forum with the aim of scamming then you are actively pretending to be someone you are not. That is roleplay.
DJ's Brother	Posted - 2011.03.18 19:07:00 - [52] lol. looks like you've got a new home cosmo. let the C&P trolling commence!
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.18 19:44:00 - [53] Oh, C&P... I need to switch characters now :(
Frau Klaps Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.03.18 19:56:00 - [54] Oh dear :CCP: ---
Maverick2011	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:01:00 - [55] Originally by: Hel O'Ween Evil = easy & lazy. It's as simple as that. This.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Cyaxares II Being evil is only fun if there are overzealous "saints" opposing you. Imagine you are evil and nobody cares... Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha You are spent. Used. Gone. Boring. So 2010. None cares of yet another weak copy of Bad Bobby or the countless YAWN guys who believe being the next scammer is any better than being the next snowflake. Not to be rude but that gave me a little smile. To me it appears that you in fact are that "overzealous saint". Where would you be in a world that does not care about evil? Exactly where you are now... -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
FunzzeR Malevolence. Imperial 0rder	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:28:00 - [57] Yes. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Alain Kinsella Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:33:00 - [58] Hrm, I'd have thought OOPE would fit better. May end up that way shortly. Anyway, I understand BB's outlook toward Eve, since I saw the same thing inSL quite a bit. But a combination of my own morals (and my deep interest in challenges) drive me to be one of the good/honorable folks here. Why? Because, as some have said already, its freakin hard at times. This game is designed around trust for its social (and Corp/Alliance) interactions, but like SL it has almost no mechanics to limit what happens when a high-trust situation breaks down. [Actually, thinking about it, SL has less restrictions than Eve.] I suppose in some way its why I like Eve - it keeps me on my toes more than SL ever did.
Berikath	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:05:00 - [59] Quote: Isn't it more fun being evil? For me? Yes. For about 5 minutes. Then I get bored. But then again, I have no interest in power for power's sake, and in fact only seek to take control of something when the guy who IS in control is managing to bork it up in some way which is a nuisance to me... so apparently I'm weird. To me, it's kinda like a game of whack-a-mole. It's fun and cute the first time. Maybe the 2nd-5th times you try and figure out the best strategy. After that, you already have it worked out and get to a point of "oh yeah... so it's another piece of painted plastic popping out of another hole. Whack it with a stick. Done it, boring". Originally by: Bad Bobby I don't consider morality to be relevant within a game. I believe that those that do are roleplayers. They are giving moral meaning to events within a computer game. I don't consider myself as "evil" within the game, I don't consider the concepts of "good" or "evil" to be relevant or even exist beyond roleplaying and background fiction within the game. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with roleplaying and I'm not saying that I don't on occasion indulge in it in a limited way, but as a rule I play the game no differently than I would play space invaders. I push buttons, kill the aliens and try to get a high score. 1. You are engaging with people you don't know about your actions in a game. You ARE role-playing, just with fewer imposed rules than "traditional roleplayers"... mainly because we're all role-playing all the time. 2. Yes, EVE is a game... but that doesn't mean your actions are completely free of any moral judgments or states. "Good" and "evil" are probably too strong, since I wouldn't say what you did was precisely evil, but "morally wrong" probably wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Remember- games aren't real life, but they often (if not always) MIRROR some part of real life. Games are even a big part of how we learn as humans (particularly, how we learn social rules and behaviors). For instance, let's say someone cheats in a baseball game. Is that wrong? It is, after all, just a game. * [ SIG] * Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ]
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.19 00:55:00 - [60] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: RAW23 Any response to the rumours about you getting a bunch of accounts with most of your assets on them banned for connection to RMT laundering? I can state categorically that I never RMT'd any of my assets or ISK Originally by: cosmoray I can confirm that I only have 1 account left. The cosmoray account. Assuming this is true, is that because the other accounts were banned? Or are you implying that you sold accounts via RMT, though not assets or ISK?



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