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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Hurrakan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:43:00 -
[61]
All I do is run missions and I think it's a good idea to remove agent quality.
All agents should be of equal quality, with rewards based on other more relevant/logical factors. I mean mission rewards should be based on the player, not the agent.
That way, there should be an even spread of players and agents throughout the universe.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:51:00 -
[62]
First off, my apologies to Tippia and Shirley Serious. I shouldn't multitask when writing summaries.
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions. In the future you¦ll be able to run for the kill mission ONLY agents, or the courier mission guys, etc.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Liang Nuren First off, my apologies to Tippia and Shirley Serious. I shouldn't multitask when writing summaries.
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions. In the future you¦ll be able to run for the kill mission ONLY agents, or the courier mission guys, etc.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
-Liang
Did they say anything about highsec agents giving lowsec missions? The reason for the mass exodus to Motsu and Irijunen on Tyrannis launch isn't because of rewards, but rather because viable agent choices dwindled. Unless boarder agents (most of l4 combat agents are within 3 jumps to lowsec) are made viable again, it'll just be a flat nerf to missioners and fail at spreading them out.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: ivar R'dhak The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
I didn't interpret it as them removing the divisions ù just the mission type spread. Thus the skills will not change, nor do they need to.
You pick a division that gives you the one mission type you want, rather than the one that has the highest chance for the mission type you want. Maybe now, those mining agents will actually give youà you knowà mining missions. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: ivar R'dhak The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
I didn't interpret it as them removing the divisions ù just the mission type spread. Thus the skills will not change, nor do they need to.
You pick a division that gives you the one mission type you want, rather than the one that has the highest chance for the mission type you want. Maybe now, those mining agents will actually give youà you knowà mining missions.
I bet those will have the highest quality. Oh joy!
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:25:00 -
[66]
I've yet to see the fanfest vid so may have the wrong idea here. That said - Good, I've been advocating this for years.
Agent quality doesn't do much except make some places more popular, busy and laggy than others. Removal of quality will allow players to spread out more. The inequality between races and regions will be removed, this is a good thing.
Frankly they could get rid of agent levels as well, and simply add, as part of an agent conversation, a prompt for the level of mission you wish to do. If you've the standings, then you can do the higher level missions. This would allow corps and groups to becomes somewhat more territorial in all security sectors.
This could create a new driver for conflict other than the overcrowding driver for conflict.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:39:00 -
[67]
Sometimes I wonder if they really have nothing better to do at CCP's ..
Anyway a little extra SP reimbursement can't do no harm I suppose ...
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.03.25 18:04:00 -
[68]
I can only applaud this change!
Vote Sokratesz for CSM-6! |
Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 18:06:00 -
[69]
Quote: L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Not always - Yuzier comes to mind (maybe the whole constellation). Also a couple of mini-hubs in Heimatar IIRC.
And...
- Possible buff (IMO) to some of the 'primary' trading hubs. Rens does not just have Brutor Tribe stations, but also SoE and Transstellar Shipping.
People spreading out could have an effect of also spreading out the trade hub across multiple stations/systems; few (casual missioners) are going to put in the extra effort into getting standings for the 'main' faction on-site.
- Tertiary trading hubs (as well as their regions - *cough*Derelik*cough*) may also get buffed, as a secondary effect of groups choosing non-standard mission corps. This may take a while to appear.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.03.25 21:39:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 25/03/2011 21:45:15
Originally by: Tippia Excellent. Time to find a new, more deeply entrenched 0.5 system.
àof course, assuming they'll still only vary between -20 and +20, it won't make that much difference.
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 03:48:47
Originally by: Hesperius I'm pretty sure this is how CCP is removing level 4's from high sec without actually removing them. A best quality L3 has the same payout as a bad quality L4. So you are better off doing the L3's since they are easier and will pay the same.
No. Quality doesn't make that much difference.
Well I can tell you in the same 0.5 system, Hjoramold, there is a L4 Q(-15) agent (Rannoze Afemieh) vs a L4 Q(+18) agent (Mimi Sirya).
For the exact same mission (Gas Injection): 4(-15) gives out 1470 LP 4(+18) gives out 4469 LP
For the mission Like Drones to a Cloued: 4(-15) gives out 1892 LP 4(+18) gives out 5749 LP
I have all 7 xxxx connections skills at L5, so that's not a cause for these differences, I am getting a 50% bonus with all agent divisions.
This seems a like pretty big difference to me Tippia :)
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.25 21:59:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 25/03/2011 22:00:21
Originally by: Liang Nuren . - L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Where on earth do you get this idea? Removing agent quality =/= all agents at level 20.
It was pretty clear that all agents' "quality" will scale with your current corp standings. Arguably it'll be a lot easier to get from level 1 to level 2 since your agent will always be at max quality for your standings.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:04:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Dawne Xi Well I can tell you in the same 0.5 system, Hjoramold, there is a L4 Q(-15) agent (Rannoze Afemieh) vs a L4 Q(+18) agent (Mimi Sirya).
For the exact same mission (Gas Injection): 4(-15) gives out 1470 LP 4(+18) gives out 4469 LP
For the mission Like Drones to a Cloued: 4(-15) gives out 1892 LP 4(+18) gives out 5749 LP
I have all 7 xxxx connections skills at L5, so that's not a cause for these differences, I am getting a 50% bonus with all agent divisions.
This seems a like pretty big difference to me Tippia :)
It's a decent difference, but you've not included all factors, and more importantly: it's not nearly as large as some want to make it out to be. It's not 8k lost due to a 40pt difference in quality; it's not the same as an L3 agent.
The points of comparison I have are between different systems, but stillà
With 0.15 higher security, a difference in effective quality of 26 (base quality difference 18), the exact same mission gave 3200 LP before skills for the better agent; 2100 LP before skills for the poorer one. The same security difference, but with a effective quality gap of 47 points (36pt of base quality difference), gave 3800 LP for a different mission form the higher-quality agent, compared to 900 ù again before skills for both.
So again, not nearly the difference people are claiming. Most notably because they forget about the other variables: system security, standing and the actual effective quality. Raw quality can only vary by 40 points (and even then only if you go out in lowsec); EQ can vary by (at least) 60à and then you have the 25-40 point-eqivalents that the system security offers (depending on whom you listen to)à which increases to at least double that if we include lowsec as well.
Claiming that it's like removing L4s is just stupid; thinking it will reduce rewards by 95% is downright ignorant. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mister Agreeable
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Frankly they could get rid of agent levels as well, and simply add, as part of an agent conversation, a prompt for the level of mission you wish to do. If you've the standings, then you can do the higher level missions. This would allow corps and groups to becomes somewhat more territorial in all security sectors.
This could create a new driver for conflict other than the overcrowding driver for conflict.
This x1000000. Vast majority of l1-3 agents at the moment are nothing but waste of code.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:36:00 -
[74]
I don't know about L3 agents its been so long since I've done missions for them, so I can't argue that point. In fact, I'd have to go test to see if a L3 (+20) agent and a L4 (-20) agent is even close, but my gut tells me the L4 is better. I got no data on that, but the numbers I did post above, I do have data on.
You that you said most forget other variables, namely: 1) System Security In my example it was in the same system, not a factor. 2) Standing Both agents are in the same corp, my standing with the (-15) agent is 9.81, with the (+18) agent its 9.99, so not a huge difference. 3) Effective Quality This has no effect on LP reward, so it doesn't matter what this is.
From the wiki http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Missions#Agent_Attributes
Quote: An agent's base quality, coupled with their level, is used to determine whether you have access to the agent's missions and the LP reward for completing a mission, while their effective quality is involved in calculating ISK and standing rewards. Effective quality is derived from an agent's base quality plus a combination of your skills and standing with that agent. The higher the effective quality is, the better the ISK and standing rewards.
But back to my example, yeah a difference of 33 quality in agents, might not be 95% .. it's actually around 67% for a 33, so maybe its around 80% for 40?
So if that L4 Q+18 suddenly gets overrun and goes down into the L4 Q-15 range, it would be at least a 67% reduction if CCP doesn't change how LP's are calculated.. so yeah, not 95% but still that's pretty big. Also, I haven't seen anywhere that CCP has said this drop would occur over a day, so people speculating it will ruin their agents in 24 hours is a bit premature. Lets see what CCP eventually says.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:40:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 25/03/2011 22:42:54 Hmm, interesting .. I wonder how much a damper it'll put into LP store items.
For example, Caldari Navy has X amount of L4 agents, with Y amount of people running them all over the place. Theoretically, you can reach a saturation point where the LP per hour goes down due to over missioning (and this will directly affect the ISK per hour efficiency figure).
For an item like the 5-run BPCs which is spread out over several corps, I guess the same would apply, it's just a matter of scale.
edit:clarity
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:41:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 22:41:03
Originally by: Jada Maroo Edited by: Jada Maroo on 25/03/2011 22:00:21
Originally by: Liang Nuren . - L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Where on earth do you get this idea? Removing agent quality =/= all agents at level 20.
It was pretty clear that all agents' "quality" will scale with your current corp standings. Arguably it'll be a lot easier to get from level 1 to level 2 since your agent will always be at max quality for your standings.
L1 agents aren't used very much, and thus their quality is going to drift up. And no, it's pretty obvious that agent "quality" is going to scale with how many people are using that agent.
Its worth reading what we know again: @BorisHotch They are going to be removing agent quality soon (tm) #evefanfest @BorisHotch Agents will become dynamic. A bit like PI. More used agents quality reduces less used agents improve quality. #evefanfest
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:44:00 -
[77]
I wouldn't mind if they fixed some of the crappy lp stores at the same time so some more low sec agent is actually worth using.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:54:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 25/03/2011 22:54:34
Originally by: Liang Nuren
L1 agents aren't used very much, and thus their quality is going to drift up. And no, it's pretty obvious that agent "quality" is going to scale with how many people are using that agent.
Its worth reading what we know again: @BorisHotch They are going to be removing agent quality soon (tm) #evefanfest @BorisHotch Agents will become dynamic. A bit like PI. More used agents quality reduces less used agents improve quality. #evefanfest
-Liang
Watch the actual stream instead of relying on someone else's recap. I saw the part where they announced that agent quality is being removed and there was nothing about "more use reduces quality." Maybe they said that in another part of the keynote but it wasn't in the part I saw where they announced this change.
All they said is that agent mission quality will dynamically scale with you so that you can mission anywhere and there won't be annoying non-combat missions from combat agents anymore. Seriously, that is all they said. Not of this "it's like PI" stuff.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:11:00 -
[79]
So. Now mission-running is at least a partly competitive activity.
Watcha gonna do?
(My advice includes the word "adapt")
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Caiden Baxter
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:23:00 -
[80]
So will agent quality drop if you run him over and over and over again ? Fx will a q18 be drifting downhill and idk end at q5 or whatever ? Or are you pretty much home safe if you have high faction/corp standings ?
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Malcanis So. Now mission-running is at least a partly competitive activity.
Watcha gonna do?
(My advice includes the word "adapt")
Dam, for someone who spends so much time in 0.0, you really have a hard-on for hi-sec mission runners. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
NO! |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Watch the actual stream instead of relying on someone else's recap. I saw the part where they announced that agent quality is being removed and there was nothing about "more use reduces quality." Maybe they said that in another part of the keynote but it wasn't in the part I saw where they announced this change.
This was announced yesterday before the stream you watched was even recorded. ;-)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:41:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 23:41:54 The presentation was just that: a presentationà a short version of the highlights, bunched in with a ton of other stuff. This is a common pattern for the fanfests I've been to: you get the nice, short, quotable headlines during the presentations, and the details during the roundtables and discussions .
It was after those roundtables that the mention of dynamic quality was released, and it doesn't particularly contradict the short-short time-restricted version Stoffer presented today.
Moreover, simply removing a mechanic and not replacing it with something else isn't really what they do over there. Yes, quality (the static number that we see in the information window, and which causes the clustering in hubs) is probably gone ù we have yet to have any official word what it will be replaced with. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:43:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
This was announced yesterday before the stream you watched was even recorded. ;-)
-Liang
Ed: It's entirely possible that BorrisHotch was making **** up. But seeing as how it's panned out so far I really doubt it.
Or maybe he just misunderstood. CCP seemed pretty excited by the convenience of being able to mission where ever you want - why would they cancel that out by making you move around to find fresh agents all the time?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:51:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jada Maroo CCP seemed pretty excited by the convenience of being able to mission where ever you want - why would they cancel that out by making you move around to find fresh agents all the time?
You don't have to ù moving around only really matters if you make your money through LP and blitzing. If you're the kind of MR who cleans up every last wreck, squeeze out every last bounty, and then rotate to another agent to farm the same mission again tomorrow, this change doesn't really affect you in any wayà
àalso, "wherever you want" is still restricted by systems that have available L4 agents ù you can now pick and choose those that aren't used as much, rather than the one (or two, if you're lucky) that everyone else have chosen for the same reason you did. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Camios
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.26 00:23:00 -
[86]
I like these changes, the resource landscape in EVE must be dynamic, and missions are a resource.
Very good.
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Randem Salvo
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Posted - 2011.03.26 00:49:00 -
[87]
This thread, plus the Sanctum/Haven 0.0 Nerf has me thinking "April Fools *****es! -CCP" If I am correct then the next announcement should concern making PvP profitable if done with any "efficiency."
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TYR3L
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Posted - 2011.03.26 00:57:00 -
[88]
Dynamic landscape is good. This makes things more interesting. The forums are consistent in their terror regarding change. But EVE isn't a finished product, and for that reason alone, change is necessary and good.
On a side note, I'm wondering just how this is going to effect my passive R&D income. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.26 01:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: TYR3L On a side note, I'm wondering just how this is going to effect my passive R&D income.
It will probably go down, since you're most likely using the "good" R&D agents, just like everyone else, and that should reduce their effectivenessà
àbut that depends on whether such dynamics are simply based on missions and on how many actually bother to do them (I have a feeling most do it completely passively and don't bother with the RP boosts). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.26 01:14:00 -
[90]
With the new information added it sounds like The default quality values are removed, not making one agent better than any other. But once you start running a particular agent they will scale with you.
Also, mission type spread is being removed, and you will have only kill agents, or mining agents, or courier agents.
I have to ask though how this then affects datacores as they agent quality dictates how many RP you earn per day / mission.
We really need some clarification, because there sounds like conflicting interpretations. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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