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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:04:00 -
[1]
@BorisHotch They are going to be removing agent quality soon (tm) #evefanfest @BorisHotch Agents will become dynamic. A bit like PI. More used agents quality reduces less used agents improve quality. #evefanfest
Implications: - Low and null sec agents will become much more popular as today's "crap" low sec agents will see less use and rise to Q20. - It will really destroy Motsu/massive mission hubs. - It'll jack with tag markets. - L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality). - L5 will finally drop some really pimp LP.
Hmm.... what else?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:10:00 -
[2]
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
So my L4 agent in null sec might pay more than my L4 agent in .7 space, crazy talk!
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Jame Jarl Retief
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:12:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief on 24/03/2011 19:12:29 I don't know how to feel just now...
Seriously though, as interesting as it sounds, the logistics of it will get rather painful. All of my mission ships and stuff are set up at a specific system. Moving all that on a regular basis will be a pain. But that's what I'll have to do if a bunch of people suddenly decides they want to mission with that agent and knock the agent's quality way down?
On the other hand, finding a quiet system with an obscure agent somewhere might be nice, if for nothing else then to avoid ninja salvagers who haunt the current mission hubs.
And mission hubs currently act as "mini-trade hubs", with agents becoming more dynamic, those will disappear, causing more congestion in places like Jita.
A lot to ponder...
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:21:00 -
[4]
Excellent. Time to find a new, more deeply entrenched 0.5 system.
àof course, assuming they'll still only vary between -20 and +20, it won't make that much difference. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:53:00 -
[5]
SO unscannable tengus running missions out of random low/null sites noobs can't get to will be more profitable?
Nice. Time to find some new potential mission hub locations to gate-camp. MMMM faction fit tengus...
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:59:00 -
[6]
My dream is coming true
DEATH TO IRJUNEN
Oh yeah, about my sig... you have now read it.
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Telecom Tina
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:00:00 -
[7]
So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.
ugh.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Telecom Tina So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.
ugh.
Yes, Motsu will no longer make more than my mission agent 63 jumps from Jita. Real pain indeed. I feel bad for you.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:06:00 -
[9]
hmm wonder if they will also change lp payouts depending on security band (high/low/null) rather than individual system sec.
then again the lemmings will probably just chase the q20s anyways.
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Telecom Tina
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: Telecom Tina So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.
ugh.
Yes, Motsu will no longer make more than my mission agent 63 jumps from Jita. Real pain indeed. I feel bad for you.
Nobody runs missions out of Motsu. Too crowded.
The point of my post was the grind I get to look forward to, not the money. Keep in mind that you chose your agent, not the other way around. If you're not making money in null, I don't have a lot of sympathy.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Telecom Tina Nobody runs missions out of Motsu. Too crowded.
If you ever ran missions for a null sec corp you would know that you will never get any sympathy from those of us who do.
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Telecom Tina
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: Telecom Tina Nobody runs missions out of Motsu. Too crowded.
If you ever ran missions for a null sec corp you would know that you will never get any sympathy from those of us who do.
Damn, sympathy from null sec corps' mission runners is the standard I use to value my time
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Telecom Tina So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.
àor to move to a different agent that is now (much) higher-quality than they were before. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Diana Araquez
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:43:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Diana Araquez on 24/03/2011 20:45:44 What is wrong with hubs, they create community interaction and market opportunities. Yeah the few biggest ones are a laggy around the stations so what ? Missions take place on different grids and the load is very predictable so extra nodes can be allocated it's nowhere near as bad as fleet blobs. People like to settle somewhere and have a "base" not run around chasing agent quality. Even more so when it come to lowsec and NPC 0.0 agents actually.
I hope this thing is at least limited per corporation / division or else all the highest quality agents will move to Production or Accounting or some crap and stay there forever.
Also anybody else think all the highsec agents will eventually settle at around the same low value so you'll have to straight up grind 2.0 sec with no variation or progression to go 2->3, 3->4 ?
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:51:00 -
[15]
I'm pretty sure this is how CCP is removing level 4's from high sec without actually removing them. A best quality L3 has the same payout as a bad quality L4. So you are better off doing the L3's since they are easier and will pay the same.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Having the agent's "minimum standings to use that agent" be dynamic might not be a good idea. But if it is static then it wouldn't take much to access really good agents which would be bad also. Bit of a conundrum.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Yammel
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:52:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Yammel on 24/03/2011 21:52:41 We mission runners just spread out more, leading to every agent hovering around 0 maybe + and - say 5 either way.
Agent gets to low, you move to a higher one as do other, bring that higher agent down.
Maybe lots (nearly all?) high sec agents will plummet in quality?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hesperius I'm pretty sure this is how CCP is removing level 4's from high sec without actually removing them. A best quality L3 has the same payout as a bad quality L4. So you are better off doing the L3's since they are easier and will pay the same.
No. Quality doesn't make that much difference.
àand as for finding somewhere to run (for Caldari), I'd start looking in these places (perhaps except for Suon ù it's rather popular as it is):
Aridia:- Chibi / Mayonhen ù CBD Corporation (Int.Sec).
Requires 7 jumps through lowsec to reach highsec pocket.
Black Rise:- Uuhulanen / Aokinen ù Caldari Navy (Int.Sec.), Lai Dai (Command).
In the same constellation: State Protectorate (Intelligence), Caldari Navy (2+ Command).
The Citadel:- Usi / Ieyama ù State Protectorate (Intelligence).
In the same constellation: State Protectorate (Command). 5+ lowsec systems.
- Eitu / Imurukka ù Corporate Police Force (Surveillance), Caldari Navy (Security).
In the same constellation: Caldari Navy (Security), Corporate Police Force (Security). 2+ lowsec systems.
- Kulelen / Kantanen ù Zainou (Int.Sec.).
Uedama / Kantanen ù Caldari Steel (Int.Sec.). In the same constellation: Spacelane Patrol (Surveillance), Rapid Assembly (Manufacturing). 3+ lowsec systems.
- Oisio / Otawasa ù Caldari Navy (Security).
Oshaima / Otawasa ù Corporate Police Force (Surveillance), State Protectorate (Command). In the same constellation: Caldari Navy (Command). 1+ lowswec systems.
The Forge:- Ikami / Ihatalo ù Peace and Order Unit (Security).
In the same constellation:Peace and Order Unit (Surveillance). 3+ lowsec systems
Lonetrek:
- Torrinos / Asalola ù Spacelane Patrol (Command), Home Guard (Security, Command).
In the same constellation: Spacelane Patrol (2+ Command), Ishukone Watch (2+ Command), Corporate Police Force (Surveillance), Home Guard (Command).
- Akonoinen / Kaala ù Wiyrkomi Peace Corps (Surveillance)
Arvasaras / Lonetrek ù Sukuuvestaa Corporation (Int.Sec.) 1+ lowsec system.
- Elanoda / Malariya ù State Protectorate (Security)
2+ lowsec systems.
- Vuorrassi / Mito ù Spacelane Patrol (Surveillance).
In the same constellation: Caldari Navy (Int.Sec.). 4+ lowsec systems.
- Otalieto / Pietanen ù Ishukone Watch (Security)
2+ lowsec systems.
- Irjunen / Suon ù Corporate Police Force (Surveillance).
In the same constellation: Corporate Police Force (2+ Security, Command).
Sinq Laison:- Barmalie / Algintal ù Modern Finances (Int.Sec.).
ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:14:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Seraph Castillon on 24/03/2011 22:18:23 I couldn't care less about the high sec mission payout aspect this will have, but I really hope it doesn't affect the hub status of certain mission systems. I don't want to see Jita become the only place where one can buy full fittings for his ship in one place. I honestly can't see what's wrong with static mission hubs.
And like the other guy said: this better be limited to inter lvl/division/corp shifts.
I also doubt that there can ever be enough of a good agent quality scarcity to cause an exodus of mission runners to low sec. There are ALOT of agents in high sec and some of the best ones currently have very low usage.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
I also doubt that there can ever be enough of a good agent quality scarcity to cause an exodus of mission runners to low sec. There are ALOT of agents in high sec and some of the best ones currently have very low usage.
No, I don't think this will cause a mass exodus to low sec.... but it will make the agents in low sec that much better. :)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Forum Troll Trolling
Forum Trolling Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.25 00:09:00 -
[21]
Do you know what this will mean? this means pirates in lowsec will make MORE iskies missioning than the carebears in highsec! pirates will fight over lowsec mission hubs and get together to kill more carebears that try lowsec (other than guys in stealth bombers blitzing FW missions will make even more isk)
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:21:00 -
[22]
"àof course, assuming they'll still only vary between -20 and +20, it won't make that much difference."
lol hell yeah it will. for the same mission, -20 might pay 500 LP and +20 might pay 8000 LP. so 10 missions in you either have 5k LP or 80k. kind of a big deal if you ask me
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
I also doubt that there can ever be enough of a good agent quality scarcity to cause an exodus of mission runners to low sec. There are ALOT of agents in high sec and some of the best ones currently have very low usage.
No, I don't think this will cause a mass exodus to low sec.... but it will make the agents in low sec that much better. :)
-Liang
Now if only they'd do something about those damn cruiser tag requirements...
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:31:00 -
[24]
A quality 13 agent pays out about 13-15% less LP than the quality 18 in the same system. Not exactly a small decrease.
It would be interesting to see how many missions need to be run to change the quality. The major caldari hubs are HUGE in comparsion to the popular Gallente/Minmatar hotspots. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Nauplius
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:54:00 -
[25]
If this is actually true...
...stealth Amarr FW nerf?
As partial compensation for having one of the least desired LP of the four militia's as well as one of the harder solos, we did at least get the only (I think) Q20 agent in FW.
But now everyone will have them, meaning system security becomes the differentiator. And we only have one 0.1 system (hub moves from Huola to Kurniainen?). Unless enough missions are run to change the agent quality ù in that case maybe the Gallente/Caldari front gets an advantage over ours in that they have more systems and more low security systems to spread out over...
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:02:00 -
[26]
It would kind of place a population cap on FW, wouldn't it? It's not like there's more than one bunch of agents for each FW faction.
Wonder how they'll handle interaction with the lvl 1 agents of negative quality that are always available to allow you to recover standings with hostile factions.
E.g. if the Blood raider lvl1 agents all drift up to +quality, then you won't be able to recover standings with Blood Raiders.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:08:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 03:08:59
Originally by: Jason1138 lol hell yeah it will. for the same mission, -20 might pay 500 LP and +20 might pay 8000 LP. so 10 missions in you either have 5k LP or 80k. kind of a big deal if you ask me
Not really, no.
That's the difference between a 2-minute, always-blitz mission in 1.0 and a ½-hour, highly farm:able one in 0.5. Quality alone does not create those kinds of differences (especially not after effective quality has been calculated). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:20:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 03:22:34
Originally by: Nauplius If this is actually true...
...stealth Amarr FW nerf?
As partial compensation for having one of the least desired LP of the four militia's as well as one of the harder solos, we did at least get the only (I think) Q20 agent in FW.
But now everyone will have them, meaning system security becomes the differentiator. And we only have one 0.1 system (hub moves from Huola to Kurniainen?). Unless enough missions are run to change the agent quality ù in that case maybe the Gallente/Caldari front gets an advantage over ours in that they have more systems and more low security systems to spread out over...
Those are some interesting thoughts, but I remain far from convinced it's a stealth Amarr FW nerf. You have to remember that having a high quality agent giving you tons of LP for relatively worthless items doesn't help you a whole lot. Its like you can think of LP as another form of currency, and each LP store has a different conversion rate. High supply (good quality agents) and low demand would simply imply that you have a poor conversion rate.
-Liang
Ed: Also, I think that Huola is the hub because its oh so close to the fight. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:26:00 -
[29]
I updated the OP to include some new observations from this thread.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Tippia contends you can simply move to another high sec agent.
Weeellà that too. What I'm really getting at is that hunting for "high-quality agents" will now take a back-seat to hunting for good systems or constellations ù places where you get a good cluster of alternative agents and/or a low sec status to compensate for the dips in base quality.
Hubs (as in "high-traffic areas") will still exist ù they'll just centre around those kinds of system features rather than around specific agentsà and Suon and Asalola will most likely remain high-traffic constellations (and probably even increase in popularity) considering the amount of alternative agents available in them. Motsu might survive because of trade-hub inertia, but it's close enough to Jita that this slight advantage will probably fade if that famous Q18 loses its appealà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:58:00 -
[31]
It'll give a small benefit to those who maintain very high faction standing. If you have 8+ standing with a faction there will be no grind when switching corporations.
It'll also have lesser impact on those who don't (for whatever reason) rely on the LP for income. Bounty won't be affected at all. While mission reward and time bonus will, they're a typically small percentage. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.25 04:41:00 -
[32]
So are they going to add the missing lvl4 agents to Gallente space ? As it is, the number of agents per faction is grossly messed up. Meaning everyone running Gallente will get stuck in a fewer amount of places. Having less agents actually means they will be less dynamic.
Is the dynamic component based on per corp, or per faction ? Will all Gal Navy agents suddenly suck and everyone has to go run Alistra Mining Corp ?
Is it constellational, regional, or entire universe ? Will all the Syndicate Quafe stations suddenly become hubs of carebear alliances ? Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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Eoras Northwind
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.25 06:00:00 -
[33]
Will this affect L1 Q0 and lower agents people use to recover their standings after all those faction kill missions? Stink like unwashed Eagle, Mind of Tomato Paste. |
Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.25 06:33:00 -
[34]
Quote: Dynamic Agent Quality - coming to TQ
Citation needed
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.25 08:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dek'athor Citation needed
Are quotes from CCP devs not enough?
Quote: if this goes through, the effects will be:
Nowhere near as severe as you hope.
What will most likely happen is people with a brain move to better agents, dumb people just grind more to make the same ISK.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.25 11:16:00 -
[36]
I hope the boosts/reductions come relative to your faction, and the system security they are in.
Example, the top 10/bottom 10 of all Caldari State lvl 4 kill mission agents either decrease/increase accordingly. You'll still have decent agents, it just won't be Motsu or Irjunn.
Likewise, lowsec lvl 4s, and lvl5s need to balanced in relation to themselves, because if you weighted them by highsec activity standards, they'll be max quality just about as fast as it can get there. While I would be happier than ever to see max quality lvl5s everywhere and all the former "crap" lowsec agents at max quality, that doesn't really make it dynamic.
It depends on how much it moves in either direction. If 3 months of motsu activity drops it 1 quality point, then it willl be wholesomely irrelevant
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.25 12:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Are quotes from CCP devs not enough?
It is good nettiquete to also offer a link to major or controversial game changes
Originally by: Mara Rinn
What will most likely happen is people with a brain move to better agents, dumb people just grind more to make the same ISK.
Naa, people with a brain will chain-farm bounty-rich missions (followed up by looting/salvaging after exhausting the daily missions), taking advantage of a cluster of close-up L4 agents (irrespective of the quality). The rest will loose time chasing agents all over high-sec (and even this won't happen if their faction standing is too low), or worse, going to lowsec to phaten carepiwates.
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2011.03.25 12:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I updated the OP to include some new observations from this thread: - Shirley Serious points out that this may put a cap on the number of FW mission agents. -Liang
I was meaning more that, there's only X number of FW agents for e.g. the Amarr. People wanting to do FW missions for the Amarr have to use those agents, so the quality will go down a bit, less payouts for the same risk. If payouts drop far enough, people go "meh" and go back to the normal missions, reducing the number of players in the FW areas, and as a consequence, reducing the amount of potential pvp interactions in the FW areas.
but then again :lolFW:
Would still be interesting to see what would happen.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
LordSpock
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Posted - 2011.03.25 12:48:00 -
[39]
In some way it is good that people start grindign/chaining missions. This means that the missiosn won't be completed and thus the EQ of the agents won't decrease. So I think in the end there will be some averaged/levelled set of agents due to not having people turn in their missions. When they realize the agents quality went up enough to get better profits, they will turn in their mission and take new ones. Up until the point that the quality becomes to bad to actually turn in the mission.
Question will be what this averaged quality will be.
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Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.25 13:00:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Dek''athor on 25/03/2011 13:04:24
Originally by: LordSpock This means that the missiosn won't be completed and thus the EQ of the agents won't decrease.
No, they will still complete/blitz as long as the equilibrium is still favorable:
<bounty_overall_missions>+<LP_Overall_missions> > <bounty of phat mission>+<loot of phat missions>
The thing is, a serious missioner needs at least 5-6 L4 agents to make <good> use of this mission farming. It will need a good amount of SP and ship with high killing power. It will make new missioners earn less until they can unlock more agents and fittings.
Until the new missioners can unlock the agents, they need to grind the standings. Being locked to 1-2 agents and 1-2 missions/day means they WILL complete the missions for that agent/corp even if is lower payout (yaaay, I unlocked 1 L4 agent, Yaaay, I got Angel extravaganza 4, yaaay, I killed every ship except the last one... do I hand in the mission and get a new one? or so I leave it to reset and farm it tomorrow? maybe I should farm this 1 and grind next corp's L4 agents...gah, I need some Isks todayÖ...I'll do some more L4 from this agent)
This will continue to happen until they can farm a reasonable amount of L4/day with more corps. And this WILL decrease the agent quality below the equilibrium mentioned above.
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
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Posted - 2011.03.25 13:01:00 -
[41]
Now hiring Mercs to clear other mission runners out of my system.
Joint Venture Conglomerate |
Qalix
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Posted - 2011.03.25 13:31:00 -
[42]
Where, exactly, is this information coming from? |
Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.25 13:44:00 -
[43]
Fan Fest -> Twitter (@BorisHotch to be exact)
Those of us who are not watching it live or what ever will have to wait to see.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 13:45:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 13:45:38
Originally by: Qalix Where, exactly, is this information coming from?
Fanfest. Some of it may show up in the presentations published on youtube in a week or three, depending on where the camera teams have dropped inà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.25 13:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Qalix Where, exactly, is this information coming from?
Originally by: Dek'athor
Quote: Dynamic Agent Quality - coming to TQ
Citation needed
Donno' But it still makes for a good discussion topic for the forum
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 14:01:00 -
[46]
Its nice to see you LP *****s get nerfed hard like you deserve. I was going to make thread politely asking this quite some time ago but didn't feel like hearing the "troll" accusations. Instead I just reprocess every tag as to not contribute to the problem.
CCP is really stepping up.
One thing you didn't mention is that it will bump up the already ****ty and in hisec agents. No more q19 and q-19 agents on the same station.
.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 14:12:00 -
[47]
The reason lowsec is unpopulated is not due to lack of rewards. Current l5s are by far the best rewarding activity in Eve, more so than 100+m isk per hour sov null sanctum chaining in carriers. Carebears fail lowsec missions often enough that they soon lose agent access. Due to this physical (not psychological) barrier, few people will mission in low outside of FW, regardless of rewards.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 14:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cipher Jones I was going to make thread politely asking this quite some time ago but didn't feel like hearing the "troll" accusations.
People have only been asking for it for ages, you knowà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
sabre906
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Posted - 2011.03.25 14:25:00 -
[49]
This is exactly the wrong thing to do. It steers player behavior away from blitzing for LP and towards farming bounty. More bounty isk faucet, less LP trade-in isk sink. The Eve economy will feel this one for some time. Whatever's in your wallet will be worth less.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.25 14:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Its nice to see you LP *****s get nerfed hard like you deserve.
This will be a bit of a buff for the min-max lp *****s since non-combat agents will go up in quality.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 15:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Cipher Jones Its nice to see you LP *****s get nerfed hard like you deserve.
This will be a bit of a buff for the min-max lp *****s since non-combat agents will go up in quality.
Buff to courier bots.
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Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.25 15:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Cipher Jones Its nice to see you LP *****s get nerfed hard like you deserve.
This will be a bit of a buff for the min-max lp *****s since non-combat agents will go up in quality.
Buff to courier bots.
Actually, no. The courier agents will go down HARD in quality. Why do you think NOW courier missions pay so little LP? the missions themselves are farmed to the bone, only with the new change, the agent quality will ALSO drop down to maximum negative value.
Courier bot revenue will get nerfed :)
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.25 15:39:00 -
[53]
Soundwave just confirmed it.
also no more pot luck on mission types - go to a kill agent, get a kill mission.
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Diana Araquez
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.25 15:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hesperius Soundwave just confirmed it.
also no more pot luck on mission types - go to a kill agent, get a kill mission.
He didn't really confirm it, he said Agent Quality will be completely removed. Not sure what to make of it now.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 15:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dek'athor
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Cipher Jones Its nice to see you LP *****s get nerfed hard like you deserve.
This will be a bit of a buff for the min-max lp *****s since non-combat agents will go up in quality.
Buff to courier bots.
Actually, no. The courier agents will go down HARD in quality. Why do you think NOW courier missions pay so little LP? the missions themselves are farmed to the bone, only with the new change, the agent quality will ALSO drop down to maximum negative value.
Courier bot revenue will get nerfed :)
No it won't. Bots will just spread to different agents instead of grouped together, as the number of attractive agents in relation to each other suddenly exploded.
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Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.25 15:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Goose99
No it won't. Bots will just spread to different agents instead of grouped together, as the number of attractive agents in relation to each other suddenly exploded.
Umm, I'm fairly certain that the capacity for courier running will grossly overtake any positive agent balancing rather quick (i.e.: today the agent gets +1 quality, tomorow 50 courier runners farm it for a day or 2, he drops back down). Overall the quality "pool" of the courier agents will drop.
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:00:00 -
[57]
Righto, just saw the Dev guy on EVE-TV hinting at the future stuff.
And yeah, they¦re gona abolish quality. He didn¦t specify what they¦re gona replace it with though, so I don¦t have more specific info on this.
The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions. In the future you¦ll be able to run for the kill mission ONLY agents, or the courier mission guys, etc.
At first I was giantly pi$$ed off at this stealth nerf, but change is good I guess. I just hope the high-sec runners will see it too, especially when they see their income dwindle and have to search for another "unused" agent.
______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:10:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Goose99 on 25/03/2011 16:10:27
Originally by: Dek'athor
Originally by: Goose99
No it won't. Bots will just spread to different agents instead of grouped together, as the number of attractive agents in relation to each other suddenly exploded.
Umm, I'm fairly certain that the capacity for courier running will grossly overtake any positive agent balancing rather quick (i.e.: today the agent gets +1 quality, tomorow 50 courier runners farm it for a day or 2, he drops back down). Overall the quality "pool" of the courier agents will drop.
50 bots don't farm one agent for one day, and move the next. They farm 50 agents, one each, forever. There are large number of courier agents that normal missioners don't use, so there's no competition from massive number of live missioners at all. Thus, those agents get quality boost. The ones that are low quality before and avoided by bots are now high quality.
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:12:00 -
[59]
So all high sec lvl 4s will now become equally bad?
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Mr LaForge So all high sec lvl 4s will now become equally bad?
The navy and common corp ones will be, thus, huge nerf to noobs. Obscure corps who don't get ran much atm won't suffer as much.
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Hurrakan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:43:00 -
[61]
All I do is run missions and I think it's a good idea to remove agent quality.
All agents should be of equal quality, with rewards based on other more relevant/logical factors. I mean mission rewards should be based on the player, not the agent.
That way, there should be an even spread of players and agents throughout the universe.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:51:00 -
[62]
First off, my apologies to Tippia and Shirley Serious. I shouldn't multitask when writing summaries.
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions. In the future you¦ll be able to run for the kill mission ONLY agents, or the courier mission guys, etc.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Liang Nuren First off, my apologies to Tippia and Shirley Serious. I shouldn't multitask when writing summaries.
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions. In the future you¦ll be able to run for the kill mission ONLY agents, or the courier mission guys, etc.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
-Liang
Did they say anything about highsec agents giving lowsec missions? The reason for the mass exodus to Motsu and Irijunen on Tyrannis launch isn't because of rewards, but rather because viable agent choices dwindled. Unless boarder agents (most of l4 combat agents are within 3 jumps to lowsec) are made viable again, it'll just be a flat nerf to missioners and fail at spreading them out.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: ivar R'dhak The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
I didn't interpret it as them removing the divisions ù just the mission type spread. Thus the skills will not change, nor do they need to.
You pick a division that gives you the one mission type you want, rather than the one that has the highest chance for the mission type you want. Maybe now, those mining agents will actually give youà you knowà mining missions. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: ivar R'dhak The OTHER whopper though is they¦re gona abolish these annoying divisions and their probability for kill/haul/etc. missions.
I'm curious what they're going to do with all the socials skills. I guess they could get rid of them and reimburse the SP... but that leaves almost no reason to train Charisma.
I didn't interpret it as them removing the divisions ù just the mission type spread. Thus the skills will not change, nor do they need to.
You pick a division that gives you the one mission type you want, rather than the one that has the highest chance for the mission type you want. Maybe now, those mining agents will actually give youà you knowà mining missions.
I bet those will have the highest quality. Oh joy!
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:25:00 -
[66]
I've yet to see the fanfest vid so may have the wrong idea here. That said - Good, I've been advocating this for years.
Agent quality doesn't do much except make some places more popular, busy and laggy than others. Removal of quality will allow players to spread out more. The inequality between races and regions will be removed, this is a good thing.
Frankly they could get rid of agent levels as well, and simply add, as part of an agent conversation, a prompt for the level of mission you wish to do. If you've the standings, then you can do the higher level missions. This would allow corps and groups to becomes somewhat more territorial in all security sectors.
This could create a new driver for conflict other than the overcrowding driver for conflict.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:39:00 -
[67]
Sometimes I wonder if they really have nothing better to do at CCP's ..
Anyway a little extra SP reimbursement can't do no harm I suppose ...
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.03.25 18:04:00 -
[68]
I can only applaud this change!
Vote Sokratesz for CSM-6! |
Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 18:06:00 -
[69]
Quote: L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Not always - Yuzier comes to mind (maybe the whole constellation). Also a couple of mini-hubs in Heimatar IIRC.
And...
- Possible buff (IMO) to some of the 'primary' trading hubs. Rens does not just have Brutor Tribe stations, but also SoE and Transstellar Shipping.
People spreading out could have an effect of also spreading out the trade hub across multiple stations/systems; few (casual missioners) are going to put in the extra effort into getting standings for the 'main' faction on-site.
- Tertiary trading hubs (as well as their regions - *cough*Derelik*cough*) may also get buffed, as a secondary effect of groups choosing non-standard mission corps. This may take a while to appear.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.03.25 21:39:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 25/03/2011 21:45:15
Originally by: Tippia Excellent. Time to find a new, more deeply entrenched 0.5 system.
àof course, assuming they'll still only vary between -20 and +20, it won't make that much difference.
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 03:48:47
Originally by: Hesperius I'm pretty sure this is how CCP is removing level 4's from high sec without actually removing them. A best quality L3 has the same payout as a bad quality L4. So you are better off doing the L3's since they are easier and will pay the same.
No. Quality doesn't make that much difference.
Well I can tell you in the same 0.5 system, Hjoramold, there is a L4 Q(-15) agent (Rannoze Afemieh) vs a L4 Q(+18) agent (Mimi Sirya).
For the exact same mission (Gas Injection): 4(-15) gives out 1470 LP 4(+18) gives out 4469 LP
For the mission Like Drones to a Cloued: 4(-15) gives out 1892 LP 4(+18) gives out 5749 LP
I have all 7 xxxx connections skills at L5, so that's not a cause for these differences, I am getting a 50% bonus with all agent divisions.
This seems a like pretty big difference to me Tippia :)
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.25 21:59:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 25/03/2011 22:00:21
Originally by: Liang Nuren . - L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Where on earth do you get this idea? Removing agent quality =/= all agents at level 20.
It was pretty clear that all agents' "quality" will scale with your current corp standings. Arguably it'll be a lot easier to get from level 1 to level 2 since your agent will always be at max quality for your standings.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:04:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Dawne Xi Well I can tell you in the same 0.5 system, Hjoramold, there is a L4 Q(-15) agent (Rannoze Afemieh) vs a L4 Q(+18) agent (Mimi Sirya).
For the exact same mission (Gas Injection): 4(-15) gives out 1470 LP 4(+18) gives out 4469 LP
For the mission Like Drones to a Cloued: 4(-15) gives out 1892 LP 4(+18) gives out 5749 LP
I have all 7 xxxx connections skills at L5, so that's not a cause for these differences, I am getting a 50% bonus with all agent divisions.
This seems a like pretty big difference to me Tippia :)
It's a decent difference, but you've not included all factors, and more importantly: it's not nearly as large as some want to make it out to be. It's not 8k lost due to a 40pt difference in quality; it's not the same as an L3 agent.
The points of comparison I have are between different systems, but stillà
With 0.15 higher security, a difference in effective quality of 26 (base quality difference 18), the exact same mission gave 3200 LP before skills for the better agent; 2100 LP before skills for the poorer one. The same security difference, but with a effective quality gap of 47 points (36pt of base quality difference), gave 3800 LP for a different mission form the higher-quality agent, compared to 900 ù again before skills for both.
So again, not nearly the difference people are claiming. Most notably because they forget about the other variables: system security, standing and the actual effective quality. Raw quality can only vary by 40 points (and even then only if you go out in lowsec); EQ can vary by (at least) 60à and then you have the 25-40 point-eqivalents that the system security offers (depending on whom you listen to)à which increases to at least double that if we include lowsec as well.
Claiming that it's like removing L4s is just stupid; thinking it will reduce rewards by 95% is downright ignorant. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mister Agreeable
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Frankly they could get rid of agent levels as well, and simply add, as part of an agent conversation, a prompt for the level of mission you wish to do. If you've the standings, then you can do the higher level missions. This would allow corps and groups to becomes somewhat more territorial in all security sectors.
This could create a new driver for conflict other than the overcrowding driver for conflict.
This x1000000. Vast majority of l1-3 agents at the moment are nothing but waste of code.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:36:00 -
[74]
I don't know about L3 agents its been so long since I've done missions for them, so I can't argue that point. In fact, I'd have to go test to see if a L3 (+20) agent and a L4 (-20) agent is even close, but my gut tells me the L4 is better. I got no data on that, but the numbers I did post above, I do have data on.
You that you said most forget other variables, namely: 1) System Security In my example it was in the same system, not a factor. 2) Standing Both agents are in the same corp, my standing with the (-15) agent is 9.81, with the (+18) agent its 9.99, so not a huge difference. 3) Effective Quality This has no effect on LP reward, so it doesn't matter what this is.
From the wiki http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Missions#Agent_Attributes
Quote: An agent's base quality, coupled with their level, is used to determine whether you have access to the agent's missions and the LP reward for completing a mission, while their effective quality is involved in calculating ISK and standing rewards. Effective quality is derived from an agent's base quality plus a combination of your skills and standing with that agent. The higher the effective quality is, the better the ISK and standing rewards.
But back to my example, yeah a difference of 33 quality in agents, might not be 95% .. it's actually around 67% for a 33, so maybe its around 80% for 40?
So if that L4 Q+18 suddenly gets overrun and goes down into the L4 Q-15 range, it would be at least a 67% reduction if CCP doesn't change how LP's are calculated.. so yeah, not 95% but still that's pretty big. Also, I haven't seen anywhere that CCP has said this drop would occur over a day, so people speculating it will ruin their agents in 24 hours is a bit premature. Lets see what CCP eventually says.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:40:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 25/03/2011 22:42:54 Hmm, interesting .. I wonder how much a damper it'll put into LP store items.
For example, Caldari Navy has X amount of L4 agents, with Y amount of people running them all over the place. Theoretically, you can reach a saturation point where the LP per hour goes down due to over missioning (and this will directly affect the ISK per hour efficiency figure).
For an item like the 5-run BPCs which is spread out over several corps, I guess the same would apply, it's just a matter of scale.
edit:clarity
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:41:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 22:41:03
Originally by: Jada Maroo Edited by: Jada Maroo on 25/03/2011 22:00:21
Originally by: Liang Nuren . - L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).
Where on earth do you get this idea? Removing agent quality =/= all agents at level 20.
It was pretty clear that all agents' "quality" will scale with your current corp standings. Arguably it'll be a lot easier to get from level 1 to level 2 since your agent will always be at max quality for your standings.
L1 agents aren't used very much, and thus their quality is going to drift up. And no, it's pretty obvious that agent "quality" is going to scale with how many people are using that agent.
Its worth reading what we know again: @BorisHotch They are going to be removing agent quality soon (tm) #evefanfest @BorisHotch Agents will become dynamic. A bit like PI. More used agents quality reduces less used agents improve quality. #evefanfest
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:44:00 -
[77]
I wouldn't mind if they fixed some of the crappy lp stores at the same time so some more low sec agent is actually worth using.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.25 22:54:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 25/03/2011 22:54:34
Originally by: Liang Nuren
L1 agents aren't used very much, and thus their quality is going to drift up. And no, it's pretty obvious that agent "quality" is going to scale with how many people are using that agent.
Its worth reading what we know again: @BorisHotch They are going to be removing agent quality soon (tm) #evefanfest @BorisHotch Agents will become dynamic. A bit like PI. More used agents quality reduces less used agents improve quality. #evefanfest
-Liang
Watch the actual stream instead of relying on someone else's recap. I saw the part where they announced that agent quality is being removed and there was nothing about "more use reduces quality." Maybe they said that in another part of the keynote but it wasn't in the part I saw where they announced this change.
All they said is that agent mission quality will dynamically scale with you so that you can mission anywhere and there won't be annoying non-combat missions from combat agents anymore. Seriously, that is all they said. Not of this "it's like PI" stuff.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:11:00 -
[79]
So. Now mission-running is at least a partly competitive activity.
Watcha gonna do?
(My advice includes the word "adapt")
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Caiden Baxter
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:23:00 -
[80]
So will agent quality drop if you run him over and over and over again ? Fx will a q18 be drifting downhill and idk end at q5 or whatever ? Or are you pretty much home safe if you have high faction/corp standings ?
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Malcanis So. Now mission-running is at least a partly competitive activity.
Watcha gonna do?
(My advice includes the word "adapt")
Dam, for someone who spends so much time in 0.0, you really have a hard-on for hi-sec mission runners. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
NO! |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Watch the actual stream instead of relying on someone else's recap. I saw the part where they announced that agent quality is being removed and there was nothing about "more use reduces quality." Maybe they said that in another part of the keynote but it wasn't in the part I saw where they announced this change.
This was announced yesterday before the stream you watched was even recorded. ;-)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:41:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 23:41:54 The presentation was just that: a presentationà a short version of the highlights, bunched in with a ton of other stuff. This is a common pattern for the fanfests I've been to: you get the nice, short, quotable headlines during the presentations, and the details during the roundtables and discussions .
It was after those roundtables that the mention of dynamic quality was released, and it doesn't particularly contradict the short-short time-restricted version Stoffer presented today.
Moreover, simply removing a mechanic and not replacing it with something else isn't really what they do over there. Yes, quality (the static number that we see in the information window, and which causes the clustering in hubs) is probably gone ù we have yet to have any official word what it will be replaced with. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:43:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
This was announced yesterday before the stream you watched was even recorded. ;-)
-Liang
Ed: It's entirely possible that BorrisHotch was making **** up. But seeing as how it's panned out so far I really doubt it.
Or maybe he just misunderstood. CCP seemed pretty excited by the convenience of being able to mission where ever you want - why would they cancel that out by making you move around to find fresh agents all the time?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:51:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jada Maroo CCP seemed pretty excited by the convenience of being able to mission where ever you want - why would they cancel that out by making you move around to find fresh agents all the time?
You don't have to ù moving around only really matters if you make your money through LP and blitzing. If you're the kind of MR who cleans up every last wreck, squeeze out every last bounty, and then rotate to another agent to farm the same mission again tomorrow, this change doesn't really affect you in any wayà
àalso, "wherever you want" is still restricted by systems that have available L4 agents ù you can now pick and choose those that aren't used as much, rather than the one (or two, if you're lucky) that everyone else have chosen for the same reason you did. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Camios
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.26 00:23:00 -
[86]
I like these changes, the resource landscape in EVE must be dynamic, and missions are a resource.
Very good.
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Randem Salvo
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Posted - 2011.03.26 00:49:00 -
[87]
This thread, plus the Sanctum/Haven 0.0 Nerf has me thinking "April Fools *****es! -CCP" If I am correct then the next announcement should concern making PvP profitable if done with any "efficiency."
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TYR3L
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Posted - 2011.03.26 00:57:00 -
[88]
Dynamic landscape is good. This makes things more interesting. The forums are consistent in their terror regarding change. But EVE isn't a finished product, and for that reason alone, change is necessary and good.
On a side note, I'm wondering just how this is going to effect my passive R&D income. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.26 01:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: TYR3L On a side note, I'm wondering just how this is going to effect my passive R&D income.
It will probably go down, since you're most likely using the "good" R&D agents, just like everyone else, and that should reduce their effectivenessà
àbut that depends on whether such dynamics are simply based on missions and on how many actually bother to do them (I have a feeling most do it completely passively and don't bother with the RP boosts). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.26 01:14:00 -
[90]
With the new information added it sounds like The default quality values are removed, not making one agent better than any other. But once you start running a particular agent they will scale with you.
Also, mission type spread is being removed, and you will have only kill agents, or mining agents, or courier agents.
I have to ask though how this then affects datacores as they agent quality dictates how many RP you earn per day / mission.
We really need some clarification, because there sounds like conflicting interpretations. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.03.26 04:10:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: TYR3L On a side note, I'm wondering just how this is going to effect my passive R&D income.
It will probably go down, since you're most likely using the "good" R&D agents, just like everyone else, and that should reduce their effectivenessà
àbut that depends on whether such dynamics are simply based on missions and on how many actually bother to do them (I have a feeling most do it completely passively and don't bother with the RP boosts).
depends on how they calculate how the agent is used. I really doubt most players go do their daily r&d agent. yea I'm getting RP from all the highest ones, but I almost never run the R&D missions. If they go purely on mission completions I'd think most R&D agents would go up to q20
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Marconus Orion
S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.03.26 04:26:00 -
[92]
Much needed and long overdue change. Nice!
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Iamid Ichabod
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Posted - 2011.03.26 06:32:00 -
[93]
So, would this make social skills more, less, or no change in importance to income for missioners? I've never been a min/maxer on this so I'm curious? Though, I would be a little bit disappointed if Charisma based skills were being nerfed as it's already under utilized imo (and if it was a hit I'd say just remove Charisma altogether as it'd be even more useless an attribute). |
Valhallas
Gallente New Eden Robotics
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Posted - 2011.03.26 10:55:00 -
[94]
The fact that some factions have less L4 agents in general really needs to be factored into the equation.
EG - lets says Gallente have 20 L4 agents and Amarr have 40, the 20 Gallente ones must be more resilient to quality drop off, or else the whole system is biased.
Also, what about the pirate factions based in 0.0 that are unplayable to the masses and only available to the select few. Maximum LP payout incoming I suspect.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.26 12:23:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Malcanis So. Now mission-running is at least a partly competitive activity.
Watcha gonna do?
(My advice includes the word "adapt")
Dam, for someone who spends so much time in 0.0, you really have a hard-on for hi-sec mission runners.
I live in lo-sec. Changes in empire mission running are of extreme interest to me.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Sandrestal
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Posted - 2011.03.26 12:32:00 -
[96]
This is almost too funny the way CCP tries to jack the game around by dog humping the player base. So here we have agents drop in quality from over use? Well what is going to happen when the scheme CCP has for making sanctums/havens less available in null sec? Why if you are a player like me you will clone jump both your accts into high sec to do level 4 missions. So on the one hand CCP wants moar peeps in null sec yet takes away the incentive and in the process makes high sec mission running less attractive also. Seriously CCP, are you deliberately trying to go into a death spire or are you just so bleedingly myopic that that you can't see the road you are driving on?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.26 13:37:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Iamid Ichabod So, would this make social skills more, less, or no change in importance to income for missioners?
More important.
They will now be the factor that lets you squeeze every last bit of payout from an agent, and will be the primary method to compensate for a slipping quality if you're stuck with a particular set of agents. Skills can also instantly turn a new and untested mediocre agent into a passable one ù without skills, you'd have to grind all the way. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Kenshi Riva
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Posted - 2011.03.26 13:46:00 -
[98]
Excellent change, CCP. This was long overdue and will make New Eden even more vibrant and dynamic. Well done! :)
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2011.03.26 15:38:00 -
[99]
Orcas and Orca alts should see a potential increase in value from this. Mobile bases will be the new black.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.03.26 15:44:00 -
[100]
Almost makes me wonder if CCP has decided there's too much wealth in the game currently. Simultaneous nerf to both hi sec missioning and null sec complexes. Less cash makes it harder to replace the super expensive ships that aren't supposed to exist in the numbers they currently do. [/tinfoilhat]
Keep in mind though that depending on the rate at which the agent's quality rises/falls, this may actually end up as a BUFF to empire missioning. Obviously it's not likely to happen this way, but if the number of people missioning in motsu is less than the required amount to make the agent's quality fall and instead it rises, then this change is just more money for bears. Extreme example, I know, and CCP would be dumb to implement it that way. But I think it's safe to question whether or not the result will be a large pool of acceptably high quality agents, rather than the current status of a small pool of very high quality agents.
Or maybe I just don't understand the change :P
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.26 16:09:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Mister Smithington Or maybe I just don't understand the change :P
Tbh, no-one understands the change yet because we don't really know any of the details required to do so. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.03.26 17:21:00 -
[102]
I was wondering this too. They need to get it on tranquility fast so people can see and evaluate it, because something like this can change the game past just missioning. Like Mr Smithington said, it could end up being a global wealth nerf, making people even less likely to PvP.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.26 17:43:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mister Smithington Less cash makes it harder to replace the super expensive ships that aren't supposed to exist in the numbers they currently do.
Less ISK will mean absolutely nothing for that...
What determines the availability of (super-)caps is the availability of the minerals used to build them. If ISK becomes more scarce in the game, prices will simply drop as each ISK is comparatively more valuable.
Also note that the ISK impact of this change (as people think it will be) is pretty minor. The bounties will stay the same, so it is only the mission reward money that'll get reduced. It could well be that the total ISK supply will stay stable or even increase because of this as people will not spend as many ISK on LP offers (as they won't have as many LP to spend).
Speculation is very nice, but as we know basically nothing at the moment, nothing of what we say will have any relevance to what will actually happen, except by pure random chance.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Mister Agreeable
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Posted - 2011.03.26 17:43:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Mister Agreeable on 26/03/2011 17:43:49
Originally by: Centri Sixx it could end up being a global wealth nerf, making people even less likely to PvP.
It will absolutely be a global wealth nerf. But that has nothing to do with people being less likely to PVP, just less PVP in titans and more in Rifters.
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Hashpipe Malone
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Posted - 2011.03.26 17:52:00 -
[105]
Mission runners will have to live a Nomadic lifestyle, following the better quality agents around. This will probably be a good opertunity for Orca builders, Missioners gotta move all their stuff somehow.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.26 22:31:00 -
[106]
I wonder what mixed mission type agents like Astrosurveying, Administration, Personnel and such wil turn into as they say agents will only give one type of mission in the new system?
Originally by: Sandrestal So on the one hand CCP wants moar peeps in null sec
Where does it say CCP wants more people in nulsec?
Originally by: Hashpipe Malone Mission runners will have to live a Nomadic lifestyle, following the better quality agents around. This will probably be a good opertunity for Orca builders, Missioners gotta move all their stuff somehow.
I'll just park a hauler, salvager, boxes of ammo and a few shuttles at a bigger number of mission systems. I just thave to fly my mission ship there.
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Dulcia Anduin
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Posted - 2011.03.27 00:53:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Mister Agreeable Edited by: Mister Agreeable on 26/03/2011 17:43:49
Originally by: Centri Sixx it could end up being a global wealth nerf, making people even less likely to PvP.
It will absolutely be a global wealth nerf. But that has nothing to do with people being less likely to PVP, just less PVP in titans and more in Rifters.
Which is a good thing. F-ck supercaps.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.03.27 03:42:00 -
[108]
A change in value of isk is not going to make super capitals more expensive.
Without a change in the fundamental value of ore/BPC's/PI items, super capitals arent gonna be made cheaper.
A lack of isk in the system (or isk input) will simply drive down the price of super caps, as too little isk is chasing too much goods(or in this case, super capitals) as time goes on.
The winner? People who are holding cash, duh.
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ACESsiggy
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.27 09:56:00 -
[109]
Edited by: ACESsiggy on 27/03/2011 09:57:41 Informal communication network, in which ideas and information flow along the lines of command (the hierarchical levels) in the company's organization structure. Throughout the internal formal network, information flows in three directions. Downward communication flows from executives to employees, conveying executive decisions and providing information that helps employees do their jobs. Upward communication flows from employees to executives, providing insight into problems, trends, opportunities, grievances, and performance -- thus allowing executives to solve problems and make intelligent decisions. Horizontal communication flows between departments to help employees share information, coordinate tasks, and solve complex problems.
Every organization also has an informal communication network - grapevine - that operates anywhere two or more employees are in contact, from the lunchroom to the golf course to the companyÆs e-mail and instant messaging systems.
External communication flows into and out of the organization by both formal and informal means. Informal exchange can include social networking technologies (facebook, myspace, etc) to help businesspeople connect.
With this said, I would have to defer to external communication with a ton of speculation and gossip mixed in . Thank you for your time --ACES
Carebear 101
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.27 13:20:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Alain Kinsella on 27/03/2011 13:22:02
Originally by: Tippia edit: What I'm trying to say in a rather confused manner is this: with static quality gone, skills will step in as the factor that provide a new kind of baseline for agents you haven't used before.
Perhaps, but there's still a problem - there are currently seven 'agent LP boost' skills, but we're going to only have three mission divisions left (IIRC). This will require some existing skills to be re-worked, and probably the rest be reimbursed.
BTW, thinking about this more - it could be an interesting boost to the mining mission, and mining in general. If done correctly (yea, I know, :CCP:), they can balance out the ships needed for the various mission levels like they did for Courier.
A very basic example for minimum shiptypes:
L1 - mining frigate L2 - mining dessie/cruiser, or any barge L3 - Retriever (with T2 strips etc), or Covetor and above. Tanked (or good drone skills). L4 - A rudimentary fleet (2+ boosting Covetor /w hauling/combat support, or 1 tanked Exhumer /w Orca). L5 - A 'proper' fleet with actual tanked Exhumers and combat support (possibly including Logi)
[Do L4/5 mining missions even exist??]
Remember that mining missions do not generate minerals to market, only ISK and LP (possibly for ORE under this setup). If combined with access to the various ORE implants (through local LP stores) this could become an interesting incentive to real miners. As an added bonus, mining groups doing the L4/5 would get better experience toward 0.0/Lowsec style mining.
[Basically, I'm trying to see this as a possible Mining counterpart to what Incursions have done to Empire PvE. Unlikely I suppose, but would be nice if CCP considered it.]
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2011.03.27 13:46:00 -
[111]
Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 27/03/2011 13:47:28 Hey guys
I thought some clarification might be useful. Just a small disclaimer though, I (usually) work for Team Commie Pinkos (the Content team in Atlanta), so I am a bit wary of speaking definitively on the changes being made by Team Best Friends Forever in Iceland as part of their "1000 Little Things" project. I'll try cover what I understand of the changes they are making, but honestly, I learned about this stuff as you guys did. My guess is they only committed to the changes very recently.
So...
Agent Division Changes (BFF & Commie Pinkos): Something we've wanted to do for a long time. We discussed this at FF in various panels and round tables. The change is actually a fairly simple one, and won't have a huge impact. It's more about reducing needless complexity than changing anything.
In the future, instead of having Security, Internal Security, Command, etc...there will just be one combat division. This means someone looking for combat missions will have a 100% chance of getting what they signed up for. Previously, the "pools" of missions available were slightly mixed, meaning the combat mission runner sometimes had a less than 100% chance in that situation.
So we're fixing that. We also think a simplified division structure will make it easier for new players starting out get their heads around what types of missions are available.
The Connections skills, which were built around the numerous old divisions will which now be compacted into just a few, are being changed in the way they work. Team BFF is handling this, so I don't know the exact details, but their basic goal with the skill redesign is to maintain an equivalent value from having those skills trained.
Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
The tl;dr of the discussion was that we liked the basic idea, but that it had far-reaching implications for mission running and the EVE economy as a whole, by extension. It also required significant programming resources (something we've traditionally not had much of).
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
Agent Quality Removal (Team BFF): It looks like we're going to pursue a different solution in any case, by removing agent quality entirely. Whether or not this will incorporate some dynamic agent quality system too is not something I want to speak definitevely on, but that is not my impression from Soundwave's presentation. My understanding is that all that matters now is the level brackets (1 - 5), security status (lower security agents are worth more) and skills, LP stores, etc.
It won't eliminate hubs entirely, since people will still likely cluster around areas with many agents (which allows them to decline missions more easily) but it will help ease the stress on the worst-affected areas. I think, most positively, people will be afforded a lot more freedom in choosing where they want to run missions, rather than being limited to just a handful of locations by a system they have no control over.
I'll poke BFF to provide some more details and confirmation of that as soon as they can.
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Linda Shadowborn
Gallente Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.27 14:48:00 -
[112]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 27/03/2011 13:47:28 Hey guys awesome info
Thanks a ton Dropbear, always so much better to have real info then mere guesses. So it looks like the new mission hubs will be.. 00,5 systems in deep highsec. Arent you worried that now even more people will find those (hi emolgranlan) and make an even bigger congestion?
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sabre906
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Posted - 2011.03.27 14:48:00 -
[113]
Edited by: sabre906 on 27/03/2011 14:52:10
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 27/03/2011 13:47:28 Agent Division Changes (BFF & Commie Pinkos): Something we've wanted to do for a long time. We discussed this at FF in various panels and round tables. The change is actually a fairly simple one, and won't have a huge impact. It's more about reducing needless complexity than changing anything.
In the future, instead of having Security, Internal Security, Command, etc...there will just be one combat division. This means someone looking for combat missions will have a 100% chance of getting what they signed up for. Previously, the "pools" of missions available were slightly mixed, meaning the combat mission runner sometimes had a less than 100% chance in that situation.
So we're fixing that. We also think a simplified division structure will make it easier for new players starting out get their heads around what types of missions are available.
The Connections skills, which were built around the numerous old divisions will which now be compacted into just a few, are being changed in the way they work. Team BFF is handling this, so I don't know the exact details, but their basic goal with the skill redesign is to maintain an equivalent value from having those skills trained.
Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
The tl;dr of the discussion was that we liked the basic idea, but that it had far-reaching implications for mission running and the EVE economy as a whole, by extension. It also required significant programming resources (something we've traditionally not had much of).
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
Agent Quality Removal (Team BFF): It looks like we're going to pursue a different solution in any case, by removing agent quality entirely. Whether or not this will incorporate some dynamic agent quality system too is not something I want to speak definitevely on, but that is not my impression from Soundwave's presentation. My understanding is that all that matters now is the level brackets (1 - 5), security status (lower security agents are worth more) and skills, LP stores, etc.
It won't eliminate hubs entirely, since people will still likely cluster around areas with many agents (which allows them to decline missions more easily) but it will help ease the stress on the worst-affected areas. I think, most positively, people will be afforded a lot more freedom in choosing where they want to run missions, rather than being limited to just a handful of locations by a system they have no control over.
I'll poke BFF to provide some more details and confirmation of that as soon as they can.
Basically, there won't be dynamic agent quality anytime soon, divisions will offer pure mission types, and only agent quality will be removed, not effect of sec status? Can you clarify on sec status, or ask them for more details?
Will factors that made megahubs like Irjunen what it is (lvl4 combat agent in 0.5 sec, which is far from lowsec and don't offer lowsec missions) change? Will highsec agents near lowsec still offer lowsec missions? The mass migration to deep highsec hubs after Tyrannis patch is because border agents started giving lowsec missions at a high rate. Those same agents will still be unused, regardless of quality changes, unless "Tyrannis mission unbalancing" is reversed. The combination of 0.5 sec and not being near lowsec is rare. The changes, as they are, might open up maybe one or two agents with those traits that had really low qualities (-20 or so, which is worth a difference of 0.2 in system sec) before, but otherwise won't change much or disperse hubs.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.03.27 14:57:00 -
[114]
Thanks for the clarification and hope to hear more. The problem is not just combat missions but the mix. Pirate verse standing droping fw type anti empire class enemies. Are those going to be split as well so i can choose one faction that i can build standing with which will not kill my standing with some one else. This also needs to be clear in the write up about the agent. With links to the factions the agent has missions for and agenst maybe.
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sabre906
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Posted - 2011.03.27 15:04:00 -
[115]
Edited by: sabre906 on 27/03/2011 15:04:47
Originally by: Salpun Thanks for the clarification and hope to hear more. The problem is not just combat missions but the mix. Pirate verse standing droping fw type anti empire class enemies. Are those going to be split as well so i can choose one faction that i can build standing with which will not kill my standing with some one else. This also needs to be clear in the write up about the agent. With links to the factions the agent has missions for and agenst maybe.
If highsec faction kill missions were like FW missions (only kill one or two rats), it would've been much more attractive. Speaking of that, will the -2.4 standing loss for misc structures and ships which devs were too lazy to set a value for, be reversed? Back when they gave -0.0 loss, people were much more willing to do faction kill missions. It makes no sense that 20 BS rats incur -0.02% loss, but some random structure, turret, or fighter spawn from carrier give -2.4%.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2011.03.27 15:15:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 27/03/2011 13:47:28 Hey guys awesome info
Thanks a ton Dropbear, always so much better to have real info then mere guesses. So it looks like the new mission hubs will be.. 00,5 systems in deep highsec. Arent you worried that now even more people will find those (hi emolgranlan) and make an even bigger congestion?
Not sure why you would think that. From what I gathered the value of an agent is going to be based on either "high sec" "low sec" or "null sec" and then I assume just skills after that. So in other words, there will be no hubs centered around a few "good" agents or systems. New hubs will be based on where people want to mission more than anything (probably close to already existing trade hubs or clusters of agents for the reasons he mentioned).
Low sec will still be more valuable, but since the functional difference between a .4 and a .1 (for example) are the same then the agents will be the same (this is an assumption on my part but I'm sure the changes are partially based on this idea).
Oh yeah, about my sig... you have now read it.
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Shandir
Minmatar EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.03.27 15:17:00 -
[117]
Faction kill missions should be optional. Missions should give a reward equal to the secstatus of the system the mission is *in*. A mission that is in lowsec should get a significant boost (0.4 = 50-100% more than a 0.5 mission) Currently a HS mission runner who sees a LS mission will definitely reject it. What if the mission offered them a lot more reward. (With mission rewards/bonuses a small chunk of actual ISK gained, it may also need to be more than just the mission reward/bonus) - Vote Trebor Daehdoow for CSM and Chairman of CSM. Trebor's Campaign Manifesto |
Maverick2011
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Posted - 2011.03.27 15:19:00 -
[118]
If you guys don't implement the dynamic quality change then the game will be so much better for missioners. We can finally choose where to mission without some stupid eve-agent research for 2-3 agents for an entire level of missions.
Jus great, if you do implement dynamic quality change in the future though, please for the love of GOD show a quality meter so we dont have to be guessing if the reward is getting worse or its just a random payment.
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sabre906
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Posted - 2011.03.27 15:54:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 27/03/2011 13:47:28 Hey guys awesome info
Thanks a ton Dropbear, always so much better to have real info then mere guesses. So it looks like the new mission hubs will be.. 00,5 systems in deep highsec. Arent you worried that now even more people will find those (hi emolgranlan) and make an even bigger congestion?
Not sure why you would think that. From what I gathered the value of an agent is going to be based on either "high sec" "low sec" or "null sec" and then I assume just skills after that. So in other words, there will be no hubs centered around a few "good" agents or systems. New hubs will be based on where people want to mission more than anything (probably close to already existing trade hubs or clusters of agents for the reasons he mentioned).
Low sec will still be more valuable, but since the functional difference between a .4 and a .1 (for example) are the same then the agents will be the same (this is an assumption on my part but I'm sure the changes are partially based on this idea).
He only mentioned agent quality. Whether sec will be removed is unclear. "Tyrannis mission unbalancing" eliminated a big chunk of agents within 3 jumps to lowsec as viable agents. The handful of agents that are both in 0.5 sec system and not near lowsec are basically the same ones as highsec hubs we have now.
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Linda Shadowborn
Gallente Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.27 16:39:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Not sure why you would think that. From what I gathered the value of an agent is going to be based on either "high sec" "low sec" or "null sec" and then I assume just skills after that. So in other words, there will be no hubs centered around a few "good" agents or systems. New hubs will be based on where people want to mission more than anything (probably close to already existing trade hubs or clusters of agents for the reasons he mentioned).
True if system sec has no effect on the rewards anymore.. True.. would be nice to know for sure. I didnt even think about that.. can i blame it on it being early and i didnt have any coffee yet? *looks hopeful*
But if it still does, we will still have the mission hub problem. Otherwise yeah i think people will spread out somewhat.
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Camios
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.27 16:49:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Camios on 27/03/2011 16:52:13 [delete please]
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Camios
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.27 16:52:00 -
[122]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
The tl;dr of the discussion was that we liked the basic idea, but that it had far-reaching implications for mission running and the EVE economy as a whole, by extension. It also required significant programming resources (something we've traditionally not had much of).
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
You made me sad :-<
In my opinion the implications for mission running and economy would be good: a more dynamical universe!
I mean, take depletion/nuggets in PI: why it is good? Having to cope with changes, changes that are caused by your actions or the actions of others around you.
One of the major problems I see is the follow up of such a change; anyway I'm confident that a dynamic landscape can hardly be worse than the current situation.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.27 17:14:00 -
[123]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Agent Division Changes (BFF & Commie Pinkos): Something we've wanted to do for a long time. We discussed this at FF in various panels and round tables. The change is actually a fairly simple one, and won't have a huge impact. It's more about reducing needless complexity than changing anything.
This sounds like a pretty reasonable change. :)
Quote:
Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
...
Agent Quality Removal (Team BFF): It looks like we're going to pursue a different solution in any case, by removing agent quality entirely. Whether or not this will incorporate some dynamic agent quality system too is not something I want to speak definitevely on, but that is not my impression from Soundwave's presentation. My understanding is that all that matters now is the level brackets (1 - 5), security status (lower security agents are worth more) and skills, LP stores, etc.
I'd ask you what implications you saw from dynamic agent quality, but it sounds like it isn't going to happen as originally presented to us (though who knows until BFF comes out and talks!). Its a shame, I think - but I'll reserve final judgement until I see the dev blogs detailing the change. I look forward to Team BFF's information!
I guess if nothing else, this thread acted as a barometer for how a dynamic agent quality change would be received. /shrug Thanks for the info!
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2011.03.27 17:14:00 -
[124]
Originally by: sabre906
He only mentioned agent quality. Whether sec will be removed is unclear. "Tyrannis mission unbalancing" eliminated a big chunk of agents within 3 jumps to lowsec as viable agents. The handful of agents that are both in 0.5 sec system and not near lowsec are basically the same ones as highsec hubs we have now.
Ah, you're right. I misread. Probably a bit of wishful thinking, too.
Originally by: Camios You made me sad :-<
In my opinion the implications for mission running and economy would be good: a more dynamical universe!
I mean, take depletion/nuggets in PI: why it is good? Having to cope with changes, changes that are caused by your actions or the actions of others around you.
One of the major problems I see is the follow up of such a change; anyway I'm confident that a dynamic landscape can hardly be worse than the current situation.
But if you think about it, even if all agents in a given area (say all of high-sec) are the same quality, there is still the potential for hubs to change based on what players are doing (unlike now, where most players gravitate towards those "good" agents).
Oh yeah, about my sig... you have now read it.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.03.27 19:42:00 -
[125]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dynamic Agent Quality:
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
Agent Quality Removal (Team BFF): It looks like we're going to pursue a different solution in any case, by removing agent quality entirely.
...rather than being limited to just a handful of locations by a system they have no control over.
Dynamic is a pointless idea. It doesn't solve anything and just adds needless chore to the player experience. There are enough chores in Eve as it is.
Removal of quality will create incentive for diffusion of population just as effectively as dynamic agents and with out the expense to code something.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.03.27 19:49:00 -
[126]
"Not really, no.
That's the difference between a 2-minute, always-blitz mission in 1.0 and a +-hour, highly farm:able one in 0.5. Quality alone does not create those kinds of differences (especially not after effective quality has been calculated)."
Tippia, you have ZERO idea what you're talking about. I have a Q-17 and a Q 18 in the same station and the difference in payout is huge. 2000 vs 7600 on the big missions with my skills. the difference in -20 and +20 will not be some tiny thing that you'll barely notice. this will screw up LP items price wise like you would not believe
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.27 20:19:00 -
[127]
Ack, so dynamic quality is out again because it¦s too hard to code, or rather not enough DEVs around to do it? Not sure if I should be glad or sad, I think this(and the 0.0 sanctum/haven nerf) MAY have ended up the biggest boons to low sec.
BTW, Tip, you¦re really on the wrong horse here. My one great agent gives me about the same RP than 2-3 of the bad ones combined, for the really big missions. Agent quality is a major factor. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.27 20:24:00 -
[128]
Oh what a shame. And pirates were already polishing up their gatecamps in anticipation of the carebear exodus to lo sec .
On a more serious note, thanks for the info, Dropbear! Overall, the ideas sound great.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Illectroculus Defined
Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:15:00 -
[129]
Mission hub nerf = ninja salvager nerf.
Seriously, we've been needing this for a long time - replace agent quality with a business metric. As agents get busier their rewards go down and the standing required to access them goes up, this is slightly difference from simply adjusting quality.
Of course, I'd prefer missions to be posted by agents in a simlar way to contracts, have rewards that work in a dutch auction kind of way. Mission gets posted and listed on some searchable UI, then as time goes by the rewards go up and the standings required go down. Then you get proper market behaviour for missions and the infinite well of isk becomes more dynamic, and more rewarding for those who choose to travel to the fringes of empire. Spaceships! |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.28 00:22:00 -
[130]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
It's more about reducing needless complexity than changing anything.
So we're fixing that. We also think a simplified division structure will make it easier for new players starting out get their heads around what types of missions are available.
Many thanks for taking the time to provide us with some concrete information.
So the primary goal of the agent change is to simplify things for new players? And not to adjust the economy or population distribution?
Quote:
I'll poke BFF to provide some more details and confirmation of that as soon as they can.
Please do. TIA.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:12:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Shirley Serious points out that this may put a cap on the number of people using the FW agents - and thus lower the number of total people participating in the FW.
Hardly. There are many, many unused or barely used L4 FW agents, due to the extreme effect of quality variance. A q18 FW agent gives 20k plus LP a mission, a q-18 can give as low as 3k, and consequently it's not even worth my time to go to all but 5 of the who knows how many total minmatar lv4 agents.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:17:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Tippia on 28/03/2011 02:18:25
Originally by: Jason1138 Tippia, you have ZERO idea what you're talking about. I have a Q-17 and a Q 18 in the same station and the difference in payout is huge. 2000 vs 7600 on the big missions with my skills.
So in other words, it's not nearly the difference quoted. That one mentioned is the difference between a 2-minute, always-blitz mission in 1.0 and a +-hour, highly farm:able one in 0.5.
So yes, I do have quite a good idea what the difference are because I actually tested them including all the variables. You even proved my claim correct with your own numbers.
I take it you have ZERO idea what you're talking about as well? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:53:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I guess if nothing else, this thread acted as a barometer for how a dynamic agent quality change would be received. /shrug Thanks for the info!
I'll cancel the party.
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Written Word
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Posted - 2011.03.28 04:51:00 -
[134]
I like the change a lot, opens up a lot of nice options in 0.5/0.6 systems. Without dynamic quality, the hub behavior I think will just move to all the systems that are 0.5.
Quick questions. I was getting to point in my skillplan when I train the Connections skills. Should I not purchase the books and train them now? Any idea when these changes are coming?
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Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.28 05:46:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Dek''athor on 28/03/2011 05:47:54
Originally by: Shandir
Missions should give a reward equal to the secstatus of the system the mission is *in*. A mission that is in lowsec should get a significant boost (0.4 = 50-100% more than a 0.5 mission) Currently a HS mission runner who sees a LS mission will definitely reject it. What if the mission offered them a lot more reward. (With mission rewards/bonuses a small chunk of actual ISK gained, it may also need to be more than just the mission reward/bonus)
Not gonna happen. CURRENTLY there are level 5 missions, that offer 80k+LP and have lots of other goodies but are lowsec only. They are seldom ran since most of them require highly specialized PVE boats and a fleet of a few persons (thus splitting up any rewards 3-4-5 ways).
L4 missioners WILL still always decline lowsec missions (maybe save for a few courier ones), doubling or tripling the current rewards won't help unless the rewards for 1 mission = at least 10-25% of the cost of a missioning boat+fittings, i.e. in the 30-60 mil isk range. THAT is the only way to get the bears go to lowsec. And even then carepiwates won't have faction pimp kills to pad the killboards since most bears will run them in T1 BS's with T2 fittings
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.03.28 06:21:00 -
[136]
I think if it is 0.4 to 0.1 it should have same bonus. Let the number/type of agents in systems make certain locations attractive, but same lp/reward for any low sec agent.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.03.28 06:52:00 -
[137]
I think there should be no difference between .5 and .9 or between 0.1 and .4 rewards.
I mean who cares if it's .5 or 1.0? it's either high sec or it isn't.
maybe use jumps distance from the mission to high sec as additional plus to make null sec missions more attractive.
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Riveth
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:03:00 -
[138]
As someone who isn't mission running. This has got to be one of the dumbest nerf-esqe ideas I've heard of yet. \o/
Right up there with 0.0 nerf.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:13:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Kerfira on 28/03/2011 07:14:08
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Agent Quality Removal (Team BFF): It looks like we're going to pursue a different solution in any case, by removing agent quality entirely. Whether or not this will incorporate some dynamic agent quality system too is not something I want to speak definitevely on, but that is not my impression from Soundwave's presentation. My understanding is that all that matters now is the level brackets (1 - 5), security status (lower security agents are worth more) and skills, LP stores, etc.
As for the security status (I assume you mean the sec. level of the system) counting, you really should replace that 0.0-1.0 nonsense with something else for this purpose. Effectively, it doesn't matter the slightest if a system is 0.5 or 1.0, so why should it be worth more to mission in a 0.5 system? It's the same with 0.1 and 0.4... There's essentially no difference between them.
Just have three sec. levels, high-, low- and null-sec for agents, and just let all agents of the same agent level in the same sec. level be the same. I.e. a L4 agent in 0.5 pays the same as a L4 in 1.0.
Maybe use LP/Reward multipliers like this: High-sec: 1x Low-sec: 2x Null-sec: 3x
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Agent Division Changes (BFF & Commie Pinkos): Something we've wanted to do for a long time. We discussed this at FF in various panels and round tables. The change is actually a fairly simple one, and won't have a huge impact. It's more about reducing needless complexity than changing anything.
In the future, instead of having Security, Internal Security, Command, etc...there will just be one combat division. This means someone looking for combat missions will have a 100% chance of getting what they signed up for. Previously, the "pools" of missions available were slightly mixed, meaning the combat mission runner sometimes had a less than 100% chance in that situation.
I still wonder what wil happen to mixed mission type agents like personnel, advisory, public relations? - Will we get 2 agents for those, 1 courier and 1 combat? Or will they be randomized, one half of them becoming couriers, the other half combat? - And will courier mission really be courier and not "get the quafe ultra from the Serpentis base" or "bring the damsel from Kruul's base back to this station" couriers mixed in? - What will happen to the .. connections skills?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:38:00 -
[141]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Agent Division Changes (BFF & Commie Pinkos): Something we've wanted to do for a long time. We discussed this at FF in various panels and round tables. The change is actually a fairly simple one, and won't have a huge impact. It's more about reducing needless complexity than changing anything.
In the future, instead of having Security, Internal Security, Command, etc...there will just be one combat division. This means someone looking for combat missions will have a 100% chance of getting what they signed up for. Previously, the "pools" of missions available were slightly mixed, meaning the combat mission runner sometimes had a less than 100% chance in that situation.
So we're fixing that. We also think a simplified division structure will make it easier for new players starting out get their heads around what types of missions are available.
The Connections skills, which were built around the numerous old divisions will which now be compacted into just a few, are being changed in the way they work. Team BFF is handling this, so I don't know the exact details, but their basic goal with the skill redesign is to maintain an equivalent value from having those skills trained.
Probably it has already occurred to you but the day this change is implemented you need to completely redo the storyline agents.
Currently you can run missions for a combat agent and get a storyline from a non-combat agent. For guys running for non-combat agents the reverse could happen. Acceptable as you aren't running agents giving exclusively combat or non-combat missions.
When you will have the option to run exclusively for combat or non-combat agents, the storyline agents should reflect your choice. so running for combat agents should give you combat storyline, running for non-combat agents should give you non-combat missions.
Probably the best option would be to keep a separate tally of the combat and non-combat missions and give a storyline every time you have done 1 missions for the same kind of agent.
Aside: thanks Liang for having started the thread for those of us that haven't been at fanfest.
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Gorongo Frostfyr
Shimohi Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.28 08:51:00 -
[142]
and how does this make pve/missions less boring? _________________ Lost in a realm of eternal ice on the threshold of eternity. |
Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:30:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Gorongo Frostfyr and how does this make pve/missions less boring?
The background wallpaper changes every once in awhile.
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RedClaws
Amarr Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:51:00 -
[144]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 27/03/2011 13:47:28 Agent Division Changes (BFF & Commie Pinkos): In the future, instead of having Security, Internal Security, Command, etc...there will just be one combat division. This means someone looking for combat missions will have a 100% chance of getting what they signed up for. Previously, the "pools" of missions available were slightly mixed, meaning the combat mission runner sometimes had a less than 100% chance in that situation.
Not having the chance of 100% of combat missions is great imo. If you happen to get a hauling mission you can simply decline it (every 4 hours without penalty). Many new players don't even know they can do this btw.
On the very odd occasion you get 2 unwanted missions in a row, you get the incentive to do something of the many other things you can do in Eve. It creates more immersion instead of this boring "push button, get rats" option.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
This is sad to hear, what Eve lacks most to become fully immersive is the dynamic value of things like truesec and agents. A changing world is what keeps Eve going, if things get stale people will get bored and leave.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Agent Quality Removal (Team BFF): It looks like we're going to pursue a different solution in any case, by removing agent quality entirely. Whether or not this will incorporate some dynamic agent quality system too is not something I want to speak definitevely on, but that is not my impression from Soundwave's presentation. My understanding is that all that matters now is the level brackets (1 - 5), security status (lower security agents are worth more) and skills, LP stores, etc.
Sadly enough, this change dumbs down Eve a little bit more. A bad quality 4 agent requires much less standings but also gives less profit. It makes a perfect step-up to high quality agent.
You can think of them as extra levels, players go from lvl 1 to lvl 2, then bad lvl 3 to good lvl 3 and then bad lvl 4 to good lvl 4 and finally lvl 5.
Thats 7 levels of agents! It feels that way to the player anyhow.
The thing I'm trying to say is: It isn't hurting anybody and it is adding some content to the agent system, why would you want to get rid of it?
If you keep removing little things like this you will end up making a game that makes you say "Wow I played for 3 years and never discovered this before!" to a game that is basically like Battlefield Heroes: Once you press play you've seen all there is to see.
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Kenshi Riva
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Posted - 2011.03.28 21:16:00 -
[145]
Honestly, from my own experience I cannot understand the drama that is being made the high-sec borders. I've been running missions for an agent in a 0.5 systems with bordering low-sec for a while now and he send me into low-sec once in 30-40 missions so far, which I easily declined and received a dozen more missions in the high-sec systems after that - no more low-sec so far. Even if then you can always take the hit, that's the price you have to pay to fly in a system with 5-10 players in local and no lag/ninjas.
@Dynamic Quality: I'm sad to hear that it won't make it into the game in the next months/years, would have been a very nice change and would have made new eden feel more alive.
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2011.03.28 22:07:00 -
[146]
Quick update:
Connections skills will work exactly the same as before. Team BFF managed to simplify the system while retaining all the old functionality.
As for storyline missions, we can't change them to fit the new divisions in the short term, since that would limit their variety even further after we've just started trying to increase the size of that "pool" of missions. Long-term though, we'd want to match the storylines up as well.
Dynamic Agent Quality is not something BFF will be taking on any time soon either,, so I'm guessing this just sprang up from a misunderstanding at a round table (or maybe over a beer or three with a dev somewhere).
The removal of agent quality is a recent decision as suggested earlier. Team BFF are still figuring the specifics out, so stay tuned for updates on that front.
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2011.03.28 22:13:00 -
[147]
What I don't like with the agent division changes is this: (on the rare occasion) I run missions, I do it in a hub of non combat agents, however they will always give me some combat ones (this is low-sec btw, I'm an outlaw) and I decline the rest. With the change those agents are now useless for me.. and I highly doubt (I've never seen in the 2 years I've lived there) that anyone does mining missions in low-sec... It is great for agents that really should be giving combat missions but don't though.
Also, will removal of agent quality make the agents Q20 or Q0 or what? Depending on what, it could be a low-sec/0.0 boost or a massive nerf...
--signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link |
Jack Gilligan
Cerberus Heavy Logistics
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Posted - 2011.03.28 22:43:00 -
[148]
One question I have is is this a nerf to already HQ agents, such as the Q20 one in Isinokka?
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.28 23:02:00 -
[149]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Connections skills will work exactly the same as before. Team BFF managed to simplify the system while retaining all the old functionality.
Yay for simplicity! :)
Quote:
Dynamic Agent Quality is not something BFF will be taking on any time soon either,, so I'm guessing this just sprang up from a misunderstanding at a round table (or maybe over a beer or three with a dev somewhere).
That's a shame to hear - I think it would have been pretty awesome.
Quote: The removal of agent quality is a recent decision as suggested earlier. Team BFF are still figuring the specifics out, so stay tuned for updates on that front.
Excellent. Thank you so much for your diligence. :)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.03.28 23:13:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Liang Nuren That's a shame to hear - I think it would have been pretty awesome.
It was up there with the learning SP refund in terms of bringing the game up to date in my book. Now I want it!
Maybe now that the seed has been planted...
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Maluvada Trenstor
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Posted - 2011.03.29 01:36:00 -
[151]
The dynamic agent quality would have been a great idea, ah well...
Agent divisions: How about removing the divisions completely and each agent can be asked for a specific type of missions?
Regarding security bonus: The security-bracket is the only thing, which should matter. For the agents at the border it would be awesome if it would be possible to ask for missions, which are only in high-sec. Or you could ask for missions in low-sec, which give a proper low-sec payout. |
Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.29 04:57:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind on 29/03/2011 04:59:29
Originally by: Nauplius If this is actually true...
...stealth Amarr FW nerf?
As partial compensation for having one of the least desired LP of the four militia's as well as one of the harder solos, we did at least get the only (I think) Q20 agent in FW.
But now everyone will have them, meaning system security becomes the differentiator. And we only have one 0.1 system (hub moves from Huola to Kurniainen?). Unless enough missions are run to change the agent quality ù in that case maybe the Gallente/Caldari front gets an advantage over ours in that they have more systems and more low security systems to spread out over...
Amarr and minnie FW also have to deal with living next to Amamake, that alone makes your FW missions and doing anything in general more dangerous than the Gallente/Caldari front. Staying in one spot for more than about 15 min in metropolis lowsec and you stand a really good chance of being hotdropped by pirates.
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Dek'athor
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Posted - 2011.03.29 06:59:00 -
[153]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Quick update:
The removal of agent quality is a recent decision as suggested earlier. Team BFF are still figuring the specifics out, so stay tuned for updates on that front.
Make the 1.0 security +20 quality agent pay out the same high LP as the 0.5 sec +20 quality agent. A adjustment to the order of 85-90% of current highest LP payout in highsec for their respective branches may be in order to maintain overall isk/LP influx (i.e. 0.5 security +20 L4 quality agent now pays 8500 LP with max skills for a difficult combat mission, make him pay out 7500 LP, make every other combat L4 agent pay out the same 7500 LP regardless of the security status of the system the agent is in)
Done.
Reasons: 1. Small to no change in economy. Currently people are crowding the 0.5-0.6 sec agents for the increased LP payout 2. After the proposed change, other sec high quality agents currently not being run (0.8-1.0 security) will see more action. Agent selection will no longer depend on system security. 3. Mission runner diffusion purpose: partially achieved! -> missioners will tend to crowd close-by multiple L4 agents and or existing trade hubs. 4. Carebear approval: granted!
Counter proposal to further distribute mission runners:
Make combat agents offer "ringed" missions: Get mission in system 1. You need to kill stuff in system 2 In system 2 there is another combat agent, he wants you to kill stuff in system 3 (etc-etc-etc) In system 3 there is yet another agent, he sends you back to kill stuff in system 1
In a high efficiency highly skilled missioning boat you'd clear a "ring" in 1-2 max 3 hours. It will create trade hubs all along the ring and will distribute missioners along it. "Rings" should have several branches possible to further increase this missioner spreading effect.
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Kazacy
Caldari Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.03.29 08:18:00 -
[154]
From a ninja side if the lp will be reduced it means that salvage/loot will grow in value (for average lazy carebear) so it's ok. Also this can open another interesting posibility: if more ppl. will farm good lvl4 missions (such as blockade or ae) maybe i can ransom those missions
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.03.29 08:55:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Soldarius on 29/03/2011 09:02:47
Originally by: Dek'athor
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Quick update:
The removal of agent quality is a recent decision as suggested earlier. Team BFF are still figuring the specifics out, so stay tuned for updates on that front.
Make the 1.0 security +20 quality agent pay out the same high LP as the 0.5 sec +20 quality agent. A adjustment to the order of 85-90% of current highest LP payout in highsec for their respective branches may be in order to maintain overall isk/LP influx (i.e. 0.5 security +20 L4 quality agent now pays 8500 LP with max skills for a difficult combat mission, make him pay out 7500 LP, make every other combat L4 agent pay out the same 7500 LP regardless of the security status of the system the agent is in)
Done.
Not done. Your reasoning is faulty. What incentive will missioners have to move to a new agent, thus alleviating over-crowding/mission-hubs, if all high-sec level 4 agents are the same? Nothing will change. Only new players will use the higher-sec level 4s, and that will just encourage them to stay in deep high-sec. May as well just anchor cans that read "Welcome to USSR."
The problem is not the security status bonus to mission rewards, but the agent level/quality system, which CCP Dropbear has indicated is going away.
Get rid of agent quality, implement mission quality. Every mission will have a minimum standing required to accept the mission. Each agent has a set number of missions available at any one time. Every time a mission is completed or failed, it gets replaced by a random quality mission of the correct type. (combat, etc.) If only the high-quality missions are being done, the list will soon be entirely populated by lower quality missions, and the agent will in effect start saying "Sorry, there's nothing better available right now. You'll have to do some busy-work until something better comes up."
At this point you can either run some lower quality missions hoping for a better mission to come up or you can relocate elsewhere while missioners of lower standings clear the lower quality missions.
A disproportionate number of high quality mission farmers would quickly drive the mission quality into the ground. Likewise, too many noobs or low standing toons would make them unusable. However, an agent with a healthy population of pilots of various standings will have a regular rotation of various quality missions, allowing for any agent to function at all levels for any players wishing to run missions. This will encourage more variety in players, more variety in the market, and a more dynamic PvE experience for everyone.
As for security status, I believe that it is appropriate for missions in lower sec status systems to offer better rewards. However, the difference between any 2 high-sec, lo-sec, or nul-sec systems should be minimal, if any. How about a 3-tiered system with substantial increases for low and nul-sec? 50% bonus for low, and 100% bonus for nul?
Before the carebears cry "nul-buff only benefits nul-sec BFF alliances!", nul-sec alliances have plenty to do without running missions in unimproved NPC sov space. But with the upcoming anomaly nerf, this may be just what is needed to replace the huge loss of personal income, stimulate neglected content, and continue to encourage player movement into nulsec.
Edited for clarity and grammar.
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Headlong
Katzbalger Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.29 09:42:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Soldarius
As for security status, I believe that it is appropriate for missions in lower sec status systems to offer better rewards. However, the difference between any 2 high-sec, lo-sec, or nul-sec systems should be minimal, if any. How about a 3-tiered system with substantial increases for low and nul-sec? 50% bonus for low, and 100% bonus for nul?
Before the carebears cry "nul-buff only benefits nul-sec BFF alliances!", nul-sec alliances have plenty to do without running missions in unimproved NPC sov space. But with the upcoming anomaly nerf, this may be just what is needed to replace the huge loss of personal income, stimulate neglected content, and continue to encourage player movement into nulsec.
Edited for clarity and grammar.
That way the reward difference between low and nullsec would be too high, considering that nullsec missionrunner also benefit from having access to much more profitable factions. What is true is that the differences between running missions in 0.4 and 0.1 should be removed for example since the real level of security is the same anywhere in lowsec and more determined by the kind of players that live around you. I'm for one really interested how fast the quality will degrade and how far degradation is taken. If it hits too fast and too hard it will probably also spell the end of a the last lowsec bears, namely those who are running missions in those low sec hub. Because in the end high sec is the only place where players can switch their agent with ease.
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Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 13:17:00 -
[157]
6 pages and not a single person has provided essential arguments why this change is bad for the community/game.
-)Peace through supreme firepower(- |
Xercodo
Amarr Daj'Juntar
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Posted - 2011.03.29 21:41:00 -
[158]
After talking with some others about the removal of quality we came to the conclusion that they should make the standing effect rewards more with how it effect effective quality now
finally rewarding those of us with a 10.0 standing with a particular agent with something a bit more substantial
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
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Taurin Herock
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Posted - 2011.04.04 15:44:00 -
[159]
Since it sounds like there will be no dynamic agent quality, the expected effect is that people will simply run missions for the most conveniently located agents. The new mission hubs will be determined by the distance to convenient market hubs, or trade routes.
My point is that if you are making this change in an effort to thin out the mission hubs and distribute high sec mission running activities more evenly over several systems, then simply removing agent quality is not likely to have the desired effect.
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Maverick2011
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Posted - 2011.04.04 16:25:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Xercodo After talking with some others about the removal of quality we came to the conclusion that they should make the standing effect rewards more with how it effect effective quality now
finally rewarding those of us with a 10.0 standing with a particular agent with something a bit more substantial
THIS. Yea we doing a gadzillion of missions for these agents and sometimes i think they are paying even LESS than the normal ones.
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Liorah
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Posted - 2011.04.05 13:32:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Maverick2011 THIS. Yea we doing a gadzillion of missions for these agents and sometimes i think they are paying even LESS than the normal ones.
Combining this with the idea that agents give random missions, it would make sense that more of the "good" missions would generally be assigned to the most trusted and most loyal players.
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Cyberus
Caldari Final Destination.
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Posted - 2011.04.11 17:33:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Cyberus on 11/04/2011 17:33:38
Originally by: Soldarius Edited by: Soldarius on 29/03/2011 09:02:47
Originally by: Dek'athor
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Quick update:
[b]text
text
May as well just anchor cans that read "Welcome to USSR."
How you know USSR have been? Let me guess from news paper? ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use one that will display - Fallout |
Victor BlueStone
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Posted - 2011.04.12 02:30:00 -
[163]
I think this dynamic agent quality proposal from CCP is a very bad idea. I hope CCP thinks VERY hard about it because it has consequences and unintended side effects but that's a debate for another day.
As for the removal of agent quality, for me it's a nerf to mission rewards. If all agents are unrated then what will be the determining factor on pay? Will system security be a factor? Location? Skills? What will be the base payout for a mission? This just enables CCP to hide how agents will pay and give missions. I sense a RNG being implemented where I get a 0.01% chance to get AE while having a 99% chance for something like "The Wildcat Strike" every time I visit any combat agent. I am not looking forward to this change. |
Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.04.12 03:06:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 12/04/2011 03:07:35
Originally by: Victor BlueStone I think this dynamic agent quality proposal from CCP is a very bad idea. I hope CCP thinks VERY hard about it because it has consequences and unintended side effects but that's a debate for another day.
As for the removal of agent quality, for me it's a nerf to mission rewards. If all agents are unrated then what will be the determining factor on pay? Will system security be a factor? Location? Skills? What will be the base payout for a mission? This just enables CCP to hide how agents will pay and give missions. I sense a RNG being implemented where I get a 0.01% chance to get AE while having a 99% chance for something like "The Wildcat Strike" every time I visit any combat agent. I am not looking forward to this change.
I'm really happy and looking forward to the dynamic agent quality change.It will makes high-sec more comtetitive and high-sec PVP war-dec,gankage alliance will form. Different mission hub will have different holing alliance.And then they may probably turn in to PVP alliances.
It's fairely a good idea I think CCP ought to consider it again.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.12 08:08:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Kogh Ayon Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 12/04/2011 03:07:35
Originally by: Victor BlueStone I think this dynamic agent quality proposal from CCP is a very bad idea. I hope CCP thinks VERY hard about it because it has consequences and unintended side effects but that's a debate for another day.
As for the removal of agent quality, for me it's a nerf to mission rewards. If all agents are unrated then what will be the determining factor on pay? Will system security be a factor? Location? Skills? What will be the base payout for a mission? This just enables CCP to hide how agents will pay and give missions. I sense a RNG being implemented where I get a 0.01% chance to get AE while having a 99% chance for something like "The Wildcat Strike" every time I visit any combat agent. I am not looking forward to this change.
I'm really happy and looking forward to the dynamic agent quality change.It will makes high-sec more comtetitive and high-sec PVP war-dec,gankage alliance will form. Different mission hub will have different holing alliance.And then they may probably turn in to PVP alliances.
It's fairely a good idea I think CCP ought to consider it again.
It has been cancelled and is not happening. The only thing that will be removed, most likely, is agent quality. -----------------------------------
Give us Drone Implants! |
Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:24:00 -
[166]
Bah, the repercussions might have been interesting. ----------------------------------------
Looking for a good system, or area, to AFK Cloak. PM me with infos, or if you want a partner to be AFK with. |
Angus McSpork
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.20 17:51:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Xercodo After talking with some others about the removal of quality we came to the conclusion that they should make the standing effect rewards more with how it effect effective quality now
finally rewarding those of us with a 10.0 standing with a particular agent with something a bit more substantial
This.
Perhaps let the 'dynamic agent quality' be on an individual player basis. It makes sense that the more missions I run for NPC X the more he'd like me and pay me.
The best part is that we already have the mechanic in place (agent standings to individual) so there shouldn't be any need to reinvent the wheel--perhaps just change the treads about a bit.
I'm sure mission hubs will still be mission hubs for the lazy (and therefor ninjas will still have targets) but it would also give the OPTION for motivated players to move out of Umokka and rework an agent standing with another L4 agent in a quieter area knowing that they'd get the better rewards in the end.
I'd rather have OPTIONS instead of being forced to (since a place like Umokka would crash overnight if the agent quality depletion mechanic was introduced)
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Sea Sharp
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Posted - 2011.04.20 19:57:00 -
[168]
Damm. The answer was staring me in the face all along! Simply put more high quality level 4 agents around high-sec. Mission-hub lag solved... and pretty much as it used to be. No. I'm not going to go run missions in low sec because the quality is better. That isn't how it works.
Thanks for listening.
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