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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
MyAvatar Hilanen
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Posted - 2011.04.02 09:32:00 -
[2311]
From a monetary economics point of view, this will lead to deflation (decrease in general price level) or lower inflation (lower increase in general price level). All in all that is not bad perse on a macro level. HOWEVER, the moment you consider the this on a micro level it becomes bad for some people, especially the individual or smaller corps/alliances.
Lets got for the deflation example.
Say I, as a simple grunt, can now make 500M a month doing ano's, while my beloved alliance leaders make about 5b a month from moongoo. Now lets assume one ship costs 100M. So I am able to buy 5 ships atm and the alliance leader can buy 50. So basically my purchasing power is about 1/10th of the alliance leader.
Now lets implement the ano nerf. My income will go down to say 300M a month while doing ano's and my alliance leader's moongoo will not change. Also lets assume that ship prices will go down by 10% (deflation), so one ship will no cost 90M. The consequences of this is that my ability to buy ships goes from 5 per month to 3 and 1/3 ship (300/90). The alliance leader however goes from 50 ships to 55 1/2 (5000/90). That implies that while before the nerf the ratio for purchasing power was 1:10, it now becomes more then 1:16.
So to sum up: this nerve will cause deflation or will lower inflation, but it also will make the rich richer and the poor poorer based on purchasing power. This might be "working as intended" according to CCP, but that is mentioned nowhere in their statements.
Also its pretty clear no1 is fighting over upgraded systems. When is the last time alliances targetted upgraded systems at all? They target the Tech moons for a reason, u know......
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Better Than You
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Posted - 2011.04.02 09:44:00 -
[2312]
So CCP would rather take advice from total and complete fail idiots on Scrapheap Challenge instead of listening to the paying customers? That horrible place is full of better non playing people who have had their **** pushed by us in the NC so many times.
So I say we all spam the crap out of that place and then CCP will listen to us!
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**Friendship will always trump the desire to fight!** |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.02 09:45:00 -
[2313]
 Quote:
Thanks for your very touching life story. I almost had tears in my eyes while I couldn¦t care less.
I extend the same feelings to yours.
Quote:
On the subject you are so fecking wrong.
There is no RIGHT to be earned to live in nullsec.
There is only isk to be made to be able to live in nullsec.
This is why you have a grunt mentality and others reap the benefits in your face.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Mortiis Goro
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Posted - 2011.04.02 09:54:00 -
[2314]
Originally by: Kiramati
Was waiting for CCP to even out 0.0 back to there true sec values.
Think back to the good old days belt ratting and scanning. People managed then people will manage after this change.
An allaince now only looked at moons not really space for there members. Now gets allaince to look back at the drawing broad.
Looking forward for this change.
FYI remember people managed befor ratting in belts. So now back to chaining :D
Before the PLEX was 100mil cheaper, before there wasnt so many people living in 0.0. Good luck with chaining, you gona chain for 2 hours then some one is going to join you and ***k up your chain
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2011.04.02 10:30:00 -
[2315]
Originally by: mkmin
Yeah, there's a 3rd party piracy/griefer forum that CCP takes more seriously than it's own forums. That's who they are catering to. That's where they got the idea from.
SHC are trolling CCP so hard CCP haven't got a clue, which isn't abnormal. But CCP wouldn't even listen to them. Look up the "Will it won't it" Technetium thread. It was foretold there that CCP were making a mistake, but CCP are too busy with their heads up each others arses.
SHC is usually a good place for discussion but discussions are usually heavily influenced by idiots who haven't played EVE for years, and haven't got a clue what they're talking about. To be honest they aren't the idiots, they're the trolls, the idiots are the people who listen to these trolls.
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Vortx JR
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Posted - 2011.04.02 10:55:00 -
[2316]
" CCP Greyscale is excited about the changes coming to anomalies "
Well is not the only one anymore. But not for the same reasons !
Did he make a stupid bet like :
- " Hey guys i bet that i can have 100 pages of complaint with a simple idea: changing anomalies ! "
- " Are you sure ? What do you wanna bet ? "
- " Well let's see 1 isk, just do that for fun "
- " Ok let's count "
And now we are only on page 78 so please guys help Greyscale to win his bet and keep posting, then it will be old story.
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Kuna Shayiskhun
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:10:00 -
[2317]
I disapprove these changes.
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Galtogrim Tor'mashrah
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:10:00 -
[2318]
Edited by: Galtogrim Tor''mashrah on 02/04/2011 11:16:45
Edited by: Galtogrim Tor''mashrah on 02/04/2011 11:16:28
Seriously?
You are kidding me.
I thought it was a bad joke at first place.
After you got that many answers, which should have told CCP that their idea is crap, I thought they are intelligent enough to put their idea in the trash.
I am very displeased.
And btw, for a "1. april joke" it was too early and for a late "1. april joke" its very bad. Try something else next year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:11:00 -
[2319]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: mkmin
Yeah, there's a 3rd party piracy/griefer forum that CCP takes more seriously than it's own forums. That's who they are catering to. That's where they got the idea from.
SHC are trolling CCP so hard CCP haven't got a clue, which isn't abnormal. But CCP wouldn't even listen to them. Look up the "Will it won't it" Technetium thread. It was foretold there that CCP were making a mistake, but CCP are too busy with their heads up each others arses.
SHC is usually a good place for discussion but discussions are usually heavily influenced by idiots who haven't played EVE for years, and haven't got a clue what they're talking about. To be honest they aren't the idiots, they're the trolls, the idiots are the people who listen to these trolls.
Scrapheap is worth more than posting like this for exactly one reason: Players can see past the scope of their personal, corporation, or alliance's in game wallet and assets list.
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Rooli Pelaaja
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:16:00 -
[2320]
harden the f*ck up
nobody complained when there wasn't perma sanctums, people were happily belt ratting and still getting isk. but now _some ppl_ cant get their pve nyxes anymore so easily
bu-hu
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Malcanis
Caldari
Alcohlics Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:17:00 -
[2321]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
I am embarassed by the dronning carebear whine in this thread. Some people are making good arguments. But the overall drone is becoming painful. The people who are quiting are worse. Meh.
Very few of the whiners threatening to quit in this thread will keep their promise.
Unfortunately.
Hmmm, I wonder if this might make for a fun minor player event. I could do a betting pool on what percentage actually do quit (1%, 2% 3%...100%) with each pick costing 10 mill. I'll use the ISK to buy a faction ship for the prize. Then I'll tot up all the promises to quit that are listed by, say, page 80 (or 100 if it gets that far), and 30 days from patch day we'll see who's still in game. Closest pick gets the ship.
Anyone in for this?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Jasmin Fox
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:29:00 -
[2322]
Edited by: Jasmin Fox on 02/04/2011 11:29:34
Is that a voluntary patch I can load if I want and if I dont want, i just dont download it?
That would be a great idea, wouldn't it?
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Lost'In'Space
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:57:00 -
[2323]
All this rage over CCP nerfing how you can field expensive ships and lose without problems?
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Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:58:00 -
[2324]
Edited by: Rrama Ratamnim on 02/04/2011 12:01:28
Originally by: Rooli Pelaaja
harden the f*ck up
nobody complained when there wasn't perma sanctums, people were happily belt ratting and still getting isk. but now _some ppl_ cant get their pve nyxes anymore so easily
bu-hu
your right and wrong, prior to the perma havens and plex's the population of nullsec was a lot less, when they did it it allowed more people to move away from l4ing ... guess we'll be going back to that and many will be abandoning nullsec with these changes, this is by far the WORST use of the nerf bat in HISTORY
I find it odd that this thread has 2500+ replies and 95000+ views, yet CCP has yet to reply or admit that this was a HORRIBLE mistake and that it needs to be reviewed, especially the lower end system changes
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:05:00 -
[2325]
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
Edited by: Rrama Ratamnim on 02/04/2011 12:01:28
Originally by: Rooli Pelaaja
harden the f*ck up
nobody complained when there wasn't perma sanctums, people were happily belt ratting and still getting isk. but now _some ppl_ cant get their pve nyxes anymore so easily
bu-hu
your right and wrong, prior to the perma havens and plex's the population of nullsec was a lot less, when they did it it allowed more people to move away from l4ing ... guess we'll be going back to that and many will be abandoning nullsec with these changes, this is by far the WORST use of the nerf bat in HISTORY
I find it odd that this thread has 2500+ replies and 95000+ views, yet CCP has yet to reply or admit that this was a HORRIBLE mistake and that it needs to be reviewed, especially the lower end system changes
Probably because it's not a mistake. What benefit does it provide to the game if those thousands of new players in 0.0 only fight in superblobs and flood the economy of the game with even more ISK than other sources?
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Buzz Aldrino
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:06:00 -
[2326]
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
I find it odd that this thread has 2500+ replies and 95000+ views, yet CCP has yet to reply or admit that this was a HORRIBLE mistake and that it needs to be reviewed, especially the lower end system changes
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=39763&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:08:00 -
[2327]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Probably because it's not a mistake. What benefit does it provide to the game if those thousands of new players in 0.0 only fight in superblobs and flood the economy of the game with even more ISK than other sources?
so instead of giving smaller goals, and fixing the problem and mechanic, lets nerf income sources so less peoeple can afford to pvp and less alliances can afford to move to nullsec into especially the crappier regions?
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JTK Fotheringham
Dashavatara
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:12:00 -
[2328]
Originally by: Ignatius Gnarl
Originally by: JTK Fotheringham
Originally by: Dharh
Maybe just adding moon goo depletion and/or balancing it with sov upgrades. Moon goo scaling might not make sense with null sec quality, but it is a bit too profitable.
I think you're missing my point. Present moon mining is high profit without corespondingly high risk. I'd like to see the risk ramped up, with some sort of threat of tower disruption, through covert action, and Dust514 suicide teams massacaring the tower crew, off-lining it for 6 hours, and unanchoring all the modules. That would be a risk to attach to moon goo towers.
Logistics for keeping POSs running are a pain. Other than the top tier moons the money you make is definitely in proportion to the hassle let alone any risk premium.
For the top tier moons they are very profitable because in order to take and hold them you need a huge support base of many players in fancy capital ships across several time zones.
The 'risk' attached to tech moons is the risk attached to being a serious nullsec player, and you can see the cost in the multiple Titan kills these guys sustain.
However I agree that distribution of moon goo is shockingly bad game design. I seem to remember this was another case where the player base expressed concern but CCP knew best?
Gradually changing moon goo comes up again and again as a simple game mechanic that would make for a much better game.
I think we'll just have to have a civilised disagreement on this point. 
If the rewards are constant (which with moon mining they most certainly are) then the corresponding risks should be moar or less constant. But with expensive moon goo, you can actually afford better defences, ship replacement, and so on - all of which greatly reduces the risk factor involved in getting the reward (see the proliferation of super-caps for evidence of this).
That's why I favour looking for a different risk-mechanism for moon mining.
Moving the goo around might be interesting - it would certainly make 0.0 less static. And maybe it would force more fights to secure new 0.0 space, which might increase the risk. But moar'n likely it would only involve moving to a new moon in existing sov held space.
/JTK
www.dashavatara.com |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:15:00 -
[2329]
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Probably because it's not a mistake. What benefit does it provide to the game if those thousands of new players in 0.0 only fight in superblobs and flood the economy of the game with even more ISK than other sources?
so instead of giving smaller goals, and fixing the problem and mechanic, lets nerf income sources so less peoeple can afford to pvp and less alliances can afford to move to nullsec into especially the crappier regions?
Low hanging fruit; this problem is a quick one to change. Addressing fundamental PVP mechanics isn't something you can wrap into a 1.X patch.
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Sheela Mystics
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:20:00 -
[2330]
If this Patch will take place, I definitely stop playing EVE and I know a lot of people who will do the same!!!
I can not believe how CCP could think this would help small Alliances. Yes it will be easier to go into nullsec, but without the chance of making money it is totally unlucrative. This patch would be one of the biggest **** CCP ever produced in changes!
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Asora Sun
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:23:00 -
[2331]
CCP, that idea is crap.
why the hell a small alliance want to go nullsec? pvp and isk to realize that.
farming missions in highsec to pvp in nullsec is no option for me.
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NeuroSpike
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:34:00 -
[2332]
Does anyone want me to save them a parking spot in IRJ at the CPF station?
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MSprej
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:36:00 -
[2333]
Bad idea!
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Nemnapos
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:38:00 -
[2334]
Thanks CCP for killing the 0.0 this is the most stupid idea ever. With this you don't get more fights because no one has the ISK to fight.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:40:00 -
[2335]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Scrapheap is worth more than posting like this for exactly one reason: Players can see past the scope of their personal, corporation, or alliance's in game wallet and assets list.
Obviously, most of them don't play the game anymore, so, they have no alliance or personal game, wallet to look past.
And the thread was good, until bitternubs like Marlona and Malcanis started posting. Most of their posts nowadays are just drivel, trolling out of boredom, rather than contributing anything of value. Whatever makes them happy, but don't come here and say their opinions are of any value.
When there's something decent to be discussed they can be quite intelligent but in cases like this the low sec trolls crawl out of their caves and start spamming nonsense.
The only thing they are right about is people claiming they're quitting. But even then they pretend their way of gaming is the only possible way, which is why they're as ignorant as it gets.
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Darkares1
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:42:00 -
[2336]
Bad idea !!!!!!!!!!!
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Antigue
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:42:00 -
[2337]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Low hanging fruit; this problem is a quick one to change. Addressing fundamental PVP mechanics isn't something you can wrap into a 1.X patch.
Quarterly Economic Newsletter says:
Average ISK in active character wallet: 350 million
and further:
"Destruction the catalyst of production"
CCP really should nerf the average income of nullsec inhabitants.
They are famous for never loosing ships and farming all day coz it¦s so safe.
So I reckon a wallet of 20 millions should be enough for them.
Oh wait... what¦s happening to the catalyst then if there is no destrcution anymore coz 20 millions will not pay for a 200 million ship?
I reckon you just wanted to troll without ever having read the QEN. Right?
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:46:00 -
[2338]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Scrapheap is worth more than posting like this for exactly one reason: Players can see past the scope of their personal, corporation, or alliance's in game wallet and assets list.
Obviously, most of them don't play the game anymore, so, they have no alliance or personal game, wallet to look past.
And the thread was good, until bitternubs like Marlona and Malcanis started posting. Most of their posts nowadays are just drivel, trolling out of boredom, rather than contributing anything of value. Whatever makes them happy, but don't come here and say their opinions are of any value.
When there's something decent to be discussed they can be quite intelligent but in cases like this the low sec trolls crawl out of their caves and start spamming nonsense.
The only thing they are right about is people claiming they're quitting. But even then they pretend their way of gaming is the only possible way, which is why they're as ignorant as it gets.
Something likewise can be said to you. Just because people endorse these changes doesn't mean they're trolls. It probably means the change doesn't affect how easily they'll be able to replace their own ships, pay for time codes or other such things, but don't dismiss the arguments in favor of this change out of hand just because they "clearly don't play eve."
There is too much ISK in eve. The tide must be stemmed. Changing the nature of the largest source to make it a rarity, rather than a commodity, will help have that effect. I've stopped caring about getting "more people" into 0.0, because the people that it's attracted are the wrong kind of players; too many of them are PVP avoiding grind-bears who are only in their corporations because their CEOs enjoy mooching off their cash generation via corporation taxes.
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:57:00 -
[2339]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: mkmin
Yeah, there's a 3rd party piracy/griefer forum that CCP takes more seriously than it's own forums. That's who they are catering to. That's where they got the idea from.
SHC are trolling CCP so hard CCP haven't got a clue, which isn't abnormal. But CCP wouldn't even listen to them. Look up the "Will it won't it" Technetium thread. It was foretold there that CCP were making a mistake, but CCP are too busy with their heads up each others arses.
SHC is usually a good place for discussion but discussions are usually heavily influenced by idiots who haven't played EVE for years, and haven't got a clue what they're talking about. To be honest they aren't the idiots, they're the trolls, the idiots are the people who listen to these trolls.
Scrapheap is worth more than posting like this for exactly one reason: Players can see past the scope of their personal, corporation, or alliance's in game wallet and assets list.
scrapheap is a bunch of worthless whiners who are so intent on swelling their own epeen on their l33tness that they couldnt adapt to a new game and started crying and whining fot the "good old days" of empty 0.0 and 6 people per region. theres literally NO substance to what goes on over there who are you trying to kid.
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HSG Bomber
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:58:00 -
[2340]
Edited by: HSG Bomber on 02/04/2011 13:01:49
this nerf will be the end of my income and the end of playing eve for me.
CCP if you need more money, nerf this stupid plex method and make it possible to buy isk for real money.
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