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Tronjay the'3rd Caldari Ascendancy. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for a new election of CSM6 and new election mechanics. How? Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Also it would be nice to see and hear CCP's view on this matter.
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:23:00 - [2] So your idea is for everyone to form 1 man alt corps to vote for their alliance person?
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:26:00 - [3] lol -----------------
Levistus Junior Caldari Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:29:00 - [4] Not supported. It's been like this ever since the beginning of democracy: the guy with most supporters gets elected as opposed to the 'best' guy (which may vary depends on how you define best). While I agree that the current CSM (and many of the previous) are dominated by 0.0 people, it has most to do with involvement, 0.0 guys care enough to vote, most high sec guys, not really. If more people voted, I bet the CSM's composition would be quite different. One vote per corp/alliance is an extremely bad idea. Goonwaffe is a 2.5k man corp; I run a research alt corp in hi-sec that has 3 men in it. Should 2500 ppl have exact the same say as my 3 alts? Also, just for the record, IMHO Mittens is a pretty cool guy, with a very in-depth knowledge of the game.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Levistus Junior Also, just for the record, IMHO Mittens is a pretty cool guy, with a very in-depth knowledge of the game. This goes for most of the new CSM. I actually have some hope this time, not because I'm a 0.0 player but because these guys love this game and know it intimiately. It will be good for the core game play i.e. Internet Spaceships.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:06:00 - [6] Quote: Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Even by CAOD/C&P standards this would be ridiculous. Tbh who cares, look at anomaly changes, CCP did never talk with CSM about it and published dev blog directly after 0.0 fanfest discussions in order to make sure CSM also couldnt ask there about it. Sure CCP might make nice dev blogs how much they care about CSM, but face it, they dont.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:18:00 - [7] I've never been a fan of the electoral college. But it is coming to a point where establising one in Eve sounds like a good idea (to me). Elect electors, which in turn, elect the CSM. Limit the amount of electors an alliance can have and voila, problem solved. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
FlameGlow Gypsy Band	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. This is democracy, direct your complaints to UN Originally by: CCP Manifest Imploding servers are not a part of our business model.
Marconus Orion S.E.G.W.A.Y.	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:41:00 - [9] What the ** is this proposal? I don't like the fact that five out of the nine seats has a NC's ass plopped in it, but they were voted into them. So there you have it. The people who did vote have spoken. What you should be going after is what can be done to get more people to give a to vote. Even though this election has the most votes than the past elections, it is a joke at what percentage of accounts voted. The Mittani was elected to chair, and that is where he should be according to the votes. Now if he breaks the NDA or does nothing but try to reverse any progress other CSM's have done to build on the relationship between players and CCP, then he should be removed. So in closing... Originally by:** Scatim Helicon lol ^^This.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:44:00 - [10] So you are saying that goons are less clever than Atlas people? Apparantly they were clever enough to get a representative that lives under the same conditions as themself in a 0.0 that undergoes large changes if CCP executes their current plans. Those plans might give Eve a great future but at least Mittani will question them and make sure that CCP isn't represented by a minority of players. Anyway it's not like the chairman will be in position to decide over CCP anyway. And I actually found his views on Eve pretty good, even if I might have voted in another direction... - I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew...

Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:37:00 - [11] The chair has no power whatsoever so you could appoint a chimp if you wanted to. Biggest problem this cycle is the homogeneous composition of the council as a whole.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:48:00 - [12] Well this is democracy - the largest interest group gets their way, one way or the other. I understand your concern, but to be frank I do not see what this will all change really, I look forward too good improvements to the game, regardless of who is on the CSM.
Hallan De'estus	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:02:00 - [13] The voters have spoken. The candidates took the time and effort to campaign, and to organize supporters. If those elected perform well, and choose to run again, odds are that they will be re-elected. System working as intended....
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:14:00 - [14] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 I've never been a fan of the electoral college. But it is coming to a point where establising one in Eve sounds like a good idea (to me). Elect electors, which in turn, elect the CSM. Limit the amount of electors an alliance can have and voila, problem solved. yeah because that wouldn't have the exact same effect. ♥
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 I've never been a fan of the electoral college. But it is coming to a point where establising one in Eve sounds like a good idea (to me). Elect electors, which in turn, elect the CSM. Limit the amount of electors an alliance can have and voila, problem solved. yeah because that wouldn't have the exact same effect. Confirming that we would get mittens elected no matter what measures are put in place. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Janos Saal	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:39:00 - [16] Mmmm yes this is a vintage crop of tears. Bottle this ****.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:48:00 - [17] the mittani sends his regards
Rens Daytrader	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:00:00 - [18]
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:36:00 - [19] That picture is full of win. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2011.03.29 18:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for a new election of CSM6 and new election mechanics. How? Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Also it would be nice to see and hear CCP's view on this matter. And if you had been elected... it would be no different. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================

MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.29 18:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 I've never been a fan of the electoral college. But it is coming to a point where establising one in Eve sounds like a good idea (to me). Elect electors, which in turn, elect the CSM. Limit the amount of electors an alliance can have and voila, problem solved. yeah because that wouldn't have the exact same effect. The same effect? No. Would it be 100% effective? No. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Admiral Jordan	Posted - 2011.04.03 04:23:00 - [22] Edited by: Admiral Jordan on 03/04/2011 04:27:28 Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. you Mad BRAH? So you want a vote like how ObamaCare was FORCED upon us Americans because a whiny minority? I know you and your "alliance" (AtlasDOT) is not an american alliance (fail), but if you know of, or read American history, you'll know the North always wins. Crap, I knew it was a bad idea to feed the trolls
Liz Lucas	Posted - 2011.04.03 04:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Admiral Jordan I know you and your "alliance" (AtlasDOT) is not an american alliance (fail), but if you know of, or read American history, you'll know the North always wins. +1 I guess this guy from atlasFAIL, err AtlasDOT.fail err whatever, can't do math, or just needs to RAGE-QUIT.
Reaver Glitterstim Legio Geminatus	Posted - 2011.04.03 05:08:00 - [24] I agree that the Goonswarm Federation is a problem for the CSM, but I think the problem lies in human nature. While having an electoral college sounds good in theory, in practice it fails due to the overwhelming ineptitude of the masses under it to elect reasonable delegates at any level, let alone at the foundation where it matters most. How do you fix it? Sad to say, I think the only way is to keep educating people while implementing changes wherever you can that force them out of their secure little bubble of complacency. I don't expect the problem to go away for millions of years, simply because I think it lies at the heart of our species and will require some serious mental evolution before it is fixed. Until then, we deal with it as best we can. I support the idea of the electoral college. Does that mean I support this thread? I think so but I'm not sure. I'll thumb it up anyway. -- "[Reaver Glitterstim] I will make your war look like a schoolyard scuffle, FATHER." -Lyra Belacquae telling what my avatar is probably thinking
Spazz21 Amarr Angha	Posted - 2011.04.03 07:12:00 - [25] Do you really expect people to vote on this and have it win? He won with the most votes... do the math. People wanted him so they voted for him. It wasn't just the goons that voted for him. And to vote him out just because he is a goon? All you would need to do is change Goon to a race and you are a racist. I imagine people voted for him because he has a lot of experience with null sec politics. And personally I am looking forward in seeing what he does. On the flip side Mr. Atlas... do you think anyone would want to vote for Atlas? If memory serves me correctly, when the Old Atlas got invaded... They took it up the rear and they surrendered some Titans and Super Carriers, a very large amount of isk, their space and their name. What did they get out of it? Nothing useful it seems. Better off making a run for it and suicide the Super Caps and get default insurance payout and reform later. And one vote per alliance? really? Let's not drink and post random crap cuz it seemed like a cool idea at the time next time, mmmkay? Thhhhaaannnks.
The Mittani	Posted - 2011.04.03 07:14:00 - [26] your suffering and incoherence pleases me. ~1700 votes for me came from GSF, the rest from the community as a whole more threads like this please, i require a constant supply of agony to maintain interest in this game~ The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Eldaec	Posted - 2011.04.03 07:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. There is a lot of stupid in this post, but in particular, you do realise that the Mittani got more votes than there are Goons despite half the goon votes presumably going to Vile Rat? He also received more votes than anyone ever in the history of CSM elections. He is literally the Sun King of EVE. Quote: Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? Jesus christ, stop posting.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.04.03 08:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim in practice it fails due to the overwhelming ineptitude of the masses under it to elect reasonable delegates at any level Ah yes, the typical whine I hear often when an idiot is describing people who vote for the "other" political party. ♥
Eve Orwell GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.03 14:44:00 - [29] Originally by: The Mittani your suffering and incoherence pleases me. ~1700 votes for me came from GSF, the rest from the community as a whole more threads like this please, i require a constant supply of agony to maintain interest in this game~ was wondering if you were gonna show up to this hilarious thread
Meissa Anunthiel	Posted - 2011.04.03 15:52:00 - [30] Don't you want to wait to see how he performs before complaining? Mittani got elected because lots of people voted for him, that's democracy for you. There's a lot more people who haven't voted and goons only account for a relatively small subset of the total playerbase, so we'll see what the future brings. And it's true that it's harder for smaller alliances (or member of no alliances, as I was when I got elected the first 2 times) to get in, but it's possible. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6

Cassus Temon Aliastra	Posted - 2011.04.03 17:24:00 - [31] Originally by: Admiral Jordan Edited by: Admiral Jordan on 03/04/2011 04:27:28 Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. you Mad BRAH? So you want a vote like how ObamaCare was FORCED upon us Americans because a whiny minority? I know you and your "alliance" (AtlasDOT) is not an american alliance (fail), but if you know of, or read American history, you'll know the North always wins. Crap, I knew it was a bad idea to feed the trolls Universal Healthcare? That's where you whine about having to pay healthcare; because all the people who live on the streets, or can't afford to pay it, are still covered, right? What is that? ..like $50 a month? ________________________________________________ Character sale forum thread
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.04.03 17:24:00 - [32] Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 03/04/2011 17:29:56 Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Spewage Originally by: Mark Twain Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Do you really believe, that if Mittens wanted to actually, and completely destroy the game (whatever that means) that CCP would allow it? You sir, have won the fool award, and (I'm guessing) are in the running for a Darwin Award... Originally by: The Mittani i require a constant supply of agony to maintain interest in this game~ sick ****! :P Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist NO!**
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.04.03 19:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Cassus Temon Edited by: Cassus Temon on 03/04/2011 17:41:47 Originally by: Admiral Jordan Edited by: Admiral Jordan on 03/04/2011 04:27:28 Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. you Mad BRAH? So you want a vote like how ObamaCare was FORCED upon us Americans because a whiny minority? I know you and your "alliance" (AtlasDOT) is not an american alliance (fail), but if you know of, or read American history, you'll know the North always wins. Crap, I knew it was a bad idea to feed the trolls Universal Healthcare? That's where you whine about having to pay healthcare; because all the people who live on the streets, or can't afford to pay it, are still covered, right? What is that? ..like $50 a month? 1 Year of those payments; is the equivalent of 1 night in the hospitol, without any treatment. Terrible idea isn't it; because that would ultimately reduce poverty. Eventually it may even correct the economy. Something which the US, couldn't possibly be suffering from. we've had national and state healthcare for people who can't get their own private insurance for years. its called medicare/medicaid hasn't helped with our economy now, has it? ♥
Selinate Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.03 19:37:00 - [34] FIGHT THE POWER!
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.03 20:54:00 - [35] man this thread was funny enough just from the OP crying about the CSM but the follow up of raging because America has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century is awesome -----------------
Lev Aeris b.b.k Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.04.04 10:53:00 - [36] No, just no. You have another chance to cast your vote next year. You say that the CSM has become nothing more than a platform for big alliances. Last CSM could be considered nothing but a platform for empire dwelling bears and lowsec pirates. No matter what they are, it was an open election.
Miso Hawnee	Posted - 2011.04.04 10:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Scatim Helicon man this thread was funny enough just from the OP crying about the CSM but the follow up of raging because America has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century is awesome We haven't been dragged in completely. We still trust our citizens enough to allow them to arm themselves. Wyatt ****ing Earp!!! yeeehaaaw ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Reliance
Kayl Breinhar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 11:27:00 - [38] One vote per alliance and/or corporation? Sounds a lot like "only rich white landowners should be allowed to vote." Also that wouldn't be corrupted in any way, shape, or form, no sir. Someone like Entity spends 250b isk and gets enough temp one-month-alts to ensure himself free trips to Iceland for two years
Aryndel Samson Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 12:48:00 - [39] Mittens stands for freedom. Do you all hate freedom or something?
BBJ Shepard Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 14:20:00 - [40] noew.,.hm,.,.m,.thies threed ies foer wel.,l,.,me.,.ies vrey impaerntetn --: L heres ies wahey:: ies impaorente foer me ies thies: "i aem a hiegh sec peleytre,.,. waehet ies nulesc? ? i daeon even now!!! thieas qanewer. ies ssacer me beacues thies is csm5 csm4 ,.,.,maebebe evern the othres! thaey downt nowre ies waoeht nulsec . \\NULSEC SACERES ME"" bue buete noew!!,,nmm,m,.,now,.,.m,.,.ies theies,.,.::""i eam ies nuelesec.,,.i em an miattens,.,.ies intrentret spaessheip,.,.i undresten,.d,.,.nulsec aend ccep (cepcp aer craezyehi) uies i weiel mekeke thies betre,.,.oer trey to !! \\ thoiues is noet a bead theing,.,.buet a goued one,.,.,.ui em nowe whaet you wiel saey to thies:: "bjeb spered,.,.yoeur awer so stuepiod,,.yoeur aer wrong!!!fuek thies is neot treue.,,ies wel,.,mh,,,.m,.hm,.faeles. i beleiev thtret csm6e wiel caren be goued an,.,.we,.lwel,.,,.ief yoeur sahel no waiet 5 miens to say "theieas is gud!!!!" or "theiais is baed" ,,. ,m,,.m,thean i wiel no spekeke teou yoeu.

Sverige Pahis Caldari Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 14:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for a new election of CSM6 and new election mechanics. How? Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Also it would be nice to see and hear CCP's view on this matter. You sound like you hate democracy. You're not a terrorist are you son
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 14:42:00 - [42] Mittens and the other 0.0 candidates ran because of dumb ideas that were floating around within CSM5 and CCP that would severely and adversely affect player-run sovereignty holding entities like the one you belong to. Remember when they nerfed deep safes? Yeah. Suggesting that an alliance with thousands of members who pay for their EVE subscriptions has the same number of votes as some guy's 1-man alt corp is utterly ridiculous. Then again, I can't say I expect intelligent ideas from a guy who belongs to a corporation with a dot in its name, which in turn belongs to an alliance with a dot in its name. Definitely not supported.
Hratli Smirks GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 15:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for a new election of CSM6 and new election mechanics. How? Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Also it would be nice to see and hear CCP's view on this matter. I completely agree! Democracy is a failed experiment. Too many of the wrong sort of people participating leads to the wrong sort of people being elected.
Vincent VanOgh	Posted - 2011.04.04 15:31:00 - [44] Edited by: Vincent VanOgh on 04/04/2011 15:31:39 Originally by: Awesome Possum hasn't helped with our economy now, has it? This forum isn't dedicated to rantings on the US political system but that's an utterly asinine comment that only displays your complete and utter ignorance of not only a very complex subject, but also the broader picture of where this fits in during a period of extended economic depression brought about by factors external to the discussion. Medicaid has difficulty supplying for the needs of the population mostly because most of the individuals treated on the government's tab are those who have never been in a position to pay into the system. The single payer healthcare system is a purely economic bandaid to the unavoidable fact that hospitals must by law treat those who come through the door. It is de-coupled from immigrations and payroll taxes because you rabid flaming conservitards would otherwise scream bloody murder about it giving all the "brown people" some kind of official recognition for being here. So, you can't stop the system paying OUT, but you can sure as hell give people an accessible, affordable avenue to pay in. It is a problem you have created (much like state budget shortfalls by giving all those poor hard-done-by millionaires tax breaks) and a problem you, as an idiot, refuse to even acknowledge much less fix. Go and educate yourself on the subject, you intellectually stunted, morally bankrupt ***got.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 17:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Awesome Possum we've had national and state healthcare for people who can't get their own private insurance for years. its called medicare/medicaid hasn't helped with our economy now, has it? Fox News viewer spotted.
Slayton Ford GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 17:53:00 - [46] Edited by: Slayton Ford on 04/04/2011 17:52:44 Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Awesome Possum we've had national and state healthcare for people who can't get their own private insurance for years. its called medicare/medicaid hasn't helped with our economy now, has it? Fox News viewer spotted. Sch.muck who voted for Obama spotted. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of receiving the ban hammer...
Ailyn Ischt	Posted - 2011.04.04 18:12:00 - [47] I think the main problems with Goons is they come into F&I or AH and just shut down ideas and proposals without ever reading them or even understanding whats going on. I think the collective knowledge of Goons isn't high enough to make real decisions. Just IMHO. Hopefully this one can outshine the other imbeciles and show Goons can do something with themselves other then be a complete and utter nuisance.
Hratli Smirks GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 18:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Ailyn Ischt I think the main problems with Goons is they come into F&I or AH and just shut down ideas and proposals without ever reading them or even understanding whats going on. I think the collective knowledge of Goons isn't high enough to make real decisions. Maybe if your ideas weren't so terrible we wouldn't do this???
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.04.04 18:25:00 - [49] The Goons beautifully illustrate the intention behind this game. Why hate them.
Malacay Dragonfire Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.04 18:27:00 - [50] Edited by: Malacay Dragonfire on 04/04/2011 18:28:22 Edited by: Malacay Dragonfire on 04/04/2011 18:27:50 Edited by: Malacay Dragonfire on 04/04/2011 18:27:24 Stop behaving like that: Monkey Fight and give the new CSM at least a chance... As others already said. If you didn't want Mittens to win you had to have more people voting for other candidates. And not only NC voted him. I voted for him after hearing the Interview he did on the Fly Reckless Podcast. Seems like a reasonable guy if you don't judge him for being a Goon only. Deal with it! Stop whining, it's still a game and not RL!

Tector GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:13:00 - [51] I did not vote blindly. I chose between Vile Rat and Mittani.
Tector GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:25:00 - [52] Also, are you morons going to start grunting because you haven't seen Mittani's birth certificate?
Ailyn Ischt	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Hratli Smirks Originally by: Ailyn Ischt I think the main problems with Goons is they come into F&I or AH and just shut down ideas and proposals without ever reading them or even understanding whats going on. I think the collective knowledge of Goons isn't high enough to make real decisions. Maybe if your ideas weren't so terrible we wouldn't do this??? Not quite.
Sephiroth CloneVII	Posted - 2011.04.04 21:10:00 - [54] The mittani sucks, here here I second the notion.
Miso Hawnee	Posted - 2011.04.04 21:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Tector I did not vote blindly. I chose between Vile Rat and Mittani. This gave me a good laugh. Thanks :D
Mak Gruber	Posted - 2011.04.04 22:45:00 - [56] Yeah...who wants lawyer with expert knowledge of the game representing the player base ...I mean.....lawyer?...representing ? And speaking for players ..perish the thought.
Sporadicus Hue GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:06:00 - [57] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for a new election of CSM6 and new election mechanics. How? Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Also it would be nice to see and hear CCP's view on this matter. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for you to just deal with it.
The Mittani	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:09:00 - [58] you ain't seen nothin yet~ The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:49:00 - [59] Originally by: Ailyn Ischt I think the main problems with Goons is they come into F&I or AH and just shut down ideas and proposals without ever reading them or even understanding whats going on. I think the collective knowledge of Goons isn't high enough to make real decisions. Just IMHO. Hopefully this one can outshine the other imbeciles and show Goons can do something with themselves other then be a complete and utter nuisance. could you come to deklein and make decisions for us we need someone to make real decisions for us :ohdear:
Habaticus Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:53:00 - [60] Yes he's not good for the Community, but he'll be there until at least next year unless they catch him passing NDA material to the Goonies. Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," where we can easily follow if he's representing himself or the Community.

Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:54:00 - [61] if your ideas were any good maybe you'd control the csm you lost the battle of ideas dwi
Ailyn Ischt	Posted - 2011.04.05 03:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Weaselior if your ideas were any good maybe you'd control the csm you lost the battle of ideas dwi I didnt select 'support' when I wrote what I wrote because I have little faith in CSMs ability to get things done anyhow. I do believe they can bring forth our ideas and opinions, but ultimately I feel CCP knows the problems and choose to do little with it anyhow.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 04:47:00 - [63] Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:50:02 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:49:55 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:48:37 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:47:55 Originally by: Habaticus passing NDA material to the Goonies. hahahah oh god he's obviously going to casually breach the legally binding non-disclosure agreement he signed, or will sign, just for the superficial benefit of his internet spaceship alliance, to hell with the consequences god you're dumb, things like this have real world consequences, you know, you can't just get another character irl
Ailyn Ischt	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:10:00 - [64] Originally by: Andski Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:50:02 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:49:55 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:48:37 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:47:55 Originally by: Habaticus passing NDA material to the Goonies. hahahah oh god he's obviously going to casually breach the legally binding non-disclosure agreement he signed, or will sign, just for the superficial benefit of his internet spaceship alliance, to hell with the consequences god you're dumb, things like this have real world consequences, you know, you can't just get another character irl Remember back in 2007 a letter your Alliance wrote concerning another Alliance? the news even hit the NYT ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/arts/07eve.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin
Stahlregen GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:22:00 - [65] Originally by: Ailyn Ischt Originally by: Andski Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:50:02 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:49:55 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:48:37 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:47:55 Originally by: Habaticus passing NDA material to the Goonies. hahahah oh god he's obviously going to casually breach the legally binding non-disclosure agreement he signed, or will sign, just for the superficial benefit of his internet spaceship alliance, to hell with the consequences god you're dumb, things like this have real world consequences, you know, you can't just get another character irl Remember back in 2007 a letter your Alliance wrote concerning another Alliance? the news even hit the NYT ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/arts/07eve.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin So your logic is thus; Mittani represents the alliance that stood against developer misconduct and cheating and therefore is certain to break a legally binding agreement himself? Despite y'know.. having made a living off the law.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:22:00 - [66] Originally by: Ailyn Ischt Originally by: Andski Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:50:02 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:49:55 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:48:37 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:47:55 Originally by: Habaticus passing NDA material to the Goonies. hahahah oh god he's obviously going to casually breach the legally binding non-disclosure agreement he signed, or will sign, just for the superficial benefit of his internet spaceship alliance, to hell with the consequences god you're dumb, things like this have real world consequences, you know, you can't just get another character irl Remember back in 2007 a letter your Alliance wrote concerning another Alliance? the news even hit the NYT ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/arts/07eve.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin irrelevant (i also wasn't playing EVE in 2007)
Largo Coronet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:38:00 - [67] "alleged" SPAAAAAAAAACE JEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! There's a herd of killer rabbits coming this way, and we need your help!
Ailyn Ischt	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:54:00 - [68] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Ailyn Ischt Originally by: Andski Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:50:02 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:49:55 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:48:37 Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 04:47:55 Originally by: Habaticus passing NDA material to the Goonies. hahahah oh god he's obviously going to casually breach the legally binding non-disclosure agreement he signed, or will sign, just for the superficial benefit of his internet spaceship alliance, to hell with the consequences god you're dumb, things like this have real world consequences, you know, you can't just get another character irl Remember back in 2007 a letter your Alliance wrote concerning another Alliance? the news even hit the NYT ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/arts/07eve.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin So your logic is thus; Mittani represents the alliance that stood against developer misconduct and cheating and therefore is certain to break a legally binding agreement himself? Despite y'know.. having made a living off the law. It was in reference to what the quoted post said. You goons are horrible at having conversations. If you cant follow a conversation then maybe you shouldnt be having them.
Dracoknight	Posted - 2011.04.05 06:29:00 - [69] Jeez, so we plan to stop people from entering the CSM because they are a part of a group you dont like now? Personally Goons in general is better than most players in EVE due to the fact they know its a freaking game... On the other hand: Who would you vote for and did you vote at all? I think that most people would rather vote for a guy they know and can be predicted to do what he promises, and its easier to trust a person that might be in your alliance or it might even be a friend of yours instead of some nobody who spews out promises like no tomorrow. You should know that its a mere 14% of the EVE population that even voted for CSM 6, so you can expect at least the alliances of the members supported them because of what they are known for, if 100% of the EVE population voted no single alliance could vote forth their candidate on their own. ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
BiaXia Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 09:31:00 - [70] Originally by: Habaticus Yes he's not good for the Community, but he'll be there until at least next year unless they catch him passing NDA material to the Goonies. Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," where we can easily follow if he's representing himself or the Community. Yes, we're just going to suddenly start spreading NDA protected material now, of all times. The guys who no one likes who have been involved in every single CSM are now going to just start breachin' those NDAs. The other day I was walking down the street and I saw an NDA and I was like ** that and I breached that son of a ***. Then The Mittani descended from heaven and gave me a high five. What I'm saying is that you are dumb.

knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:36:00 - [71] I'd like it so right wing fascist closed minded conservatives who belive in intelligent design can't run for government but unfortunately they can because everyone is allowed to vote for who they want to. The CSM is the same. The way I see the CSM, people like Mittani and Killer2 only got a few thousand votes each. There were thousands more votes they didn't get than got. If other CSM candidates were better are winning voters then there might have been more competition. I voted for Killer2, not because he's in the NC but because I liked what he said and what he stands for. Mittani was second choice because I liked what he said too. I bothered to read blogs and listen to pod casts so I could take an informed opinion. Had many of the whiners on here done the same they might realise that the CSM6 represents not just 0.0 players but all EVE players. To much talking done here and not enough reading and learning.
Hratli Smirks GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 13:08:00 - [72] Originally by: Habaticus Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," I don't believe it is possible to marginalize the Assembly Hall any more than it already has been
Habaticus Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.05 14:01:00 - [73] Originally by: Hratli Smirks Originally by: Habaticus Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," I don't believe it is possible to marginalize the Assembly Hall any more than it already has been Have you ever seen so many Goonie bees around one hive. Guess they swarm when their QUEEN Bee is being talked about. All kidding aside, have you ever seen such Goon participation in the Assembly Hall. That is great but for the fact they want to marginalized it so the Chairman doesn't feel the need to be obligated to represent the whole Communnity. That is what I would do if I had the big stick and was obsessed with an agenda I wanted to push. Hey this may all be hysteria (hope so), but warrents watching considering the Chairman's past history
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 15:16:00 - [74] Originally by: Habaticus Originally by: Hratli Smirks Originally by: Habaticus Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," I don't believe it is possible to marginalize the Assembly Hall any more than it already has been Have you ever seen so many Goonie bees around one hive. Guess they swarm when their QUEEN Bee is being talked about. All kidding aside, have you ever seen such Goon participation in the Assembly Hall. That is great but for the fact they want to marginalized it so the Chairman doesn't feel the need to be obligated to represent the whole Communnity. That is what I would do if I had the big stick and was obsessed with an agenda I wanted to push. Hey this may all be hysteria (hope so), but warrents watching considering the Chairman's past history we luv2post also we luv2own the csm
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.04.05 15:31:00 - [75] Originally by: Vincent VanOgh This forum isn't dedicated to rantings on the US political system but you're going to vomit on your keyboard in an attempt to sound intelligent, anyway. Quote: Medicaid has difficulty supplying for the needs of the population mostly because most of the individuals treated on the government's tab are those who have never been in a position to pay into the system. They might, if they ever went out and got a job. Try being "dirt poor" for a year or two, you'll see plenty of people who are being supplied health care on the government's dime when they are perfectly able to pay into the system. Quote: The single payer healthcare system is a purely economic bandaid to the unavoidable fact that hospitals must by law treat those who come through the door. It is de-coupled from immigrations and payroll taxes because you rabid flaming conservitards would otherwise scream bloody murder about it giving all the "brown people" some kind of official recognition for being here. Yes, it so inflammatory and racist for a private citizen to be upset that his tax dollar goes towards keeping people healthy, who've entered the country illegally. Personally, I'd rather see my tax dollar go towards sending those people back to their home country and let THEM pay for the health care. Quote: So, you can't stop the system paying OUT, but you can sure as hell give people an accessible, affordable avenue to pay in. Last I checked, private health insurance is pretty affordable even for people with crap paying jobs. "Oh no, but I have to pay for my cell phone, xbox live, HD cable/internet.... I'll just let the gubmint pay for my bandaids." If one cannot receive health insurance due to preexisting conditions, once again there's medicare/medicaid. Quote: It is a problem you have created (much like state budget shortfalls by giving all those poor hard-done-by millionaires tax breaks) and a problem you, as an idiot, refuse to even acknowledge much less fix. Awww, poor rich people, still paying a higher percentage in taxes even after those tax breaks. Tell me, when those millionaires move away rather than be taxed unfairly, who do you plan on blaming the budget shortfalls on? Tax everyone the same, percentage wise, then you'll have me on board with "unfair tax breaks". Quote: Go and educate yourself on the subject, you intellectually stunted, morally bankrupt ***got. which particular subject? you sort of ranted and raved all over the place. ♥
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 16:14:00 - [76] Originally by: Awesome Possum look it thinks its people
Vincent VanOgh	Posted - 2011.04.05 16:56:00 - [77] Edited by: Vincent VanOgh on 05/04/2011 16:59:16 Originally by: Awesome Possum They might, if they ever went out and got a job. Try being "dirt poor" for a year or two, you'll see plenty of people who are being supplied health care on the government's dime when they are perfectly able to pay into the system. Citation needed - oh wait, you don't have one except a moronic and un-provable belief that you're right. Then you turn around and rage because reality doesn't measure up to your idiotic preconceptions. Quote: Yes, it so inflammatory and racist for a private citizen to be upset that his tax dollar goes towards keeping people healthy, who've entered the country illegally. Personally, I'd rather see my tax dollar go towards sending those people back to their home country and let THEM pay for the health care. Yes, it is inflammatory and racist for a miserly, selfish and anti-social private citizen to be upset that his or her tax dollar goes towards keeping everyone around them healthy and productive. People who aren't stupid realize this is an investment that pays dividends in the long run. Clearly you aren't one of those people. Quote: Last I checked, private health insurance is pretty affordable even for people with crap paying jobs. "Oh no, but I have to pay for my cell phone, xbox live, HD cable/internet.... I'll just let the gubmint pay for my bandaids." WHAAAAAAAT? Are you out of your mind. No, stop now. Really. You're just embarrassing yourself. Family health insurance goes for between $200 and $400 a month. How in the name of reason can you think that is affordable to someone pulling in barely $1,000 per month? Quote: If one cannot receive health insurance due to preexisting conditions, once again there's medicare/medicaid. What are you blabbing about? Quote: Awww, poor rich people, still paying a higher percentage in taxes even after those tax breaks. Tell me, when those millionaires move away rather than be taxed unfairly, who do you plan on blaming the budget shortfalls on? Tax everyone the same, percentage wise, then you'll have me on board with "unfair tax breaks". And when has that ever happened? The wealthy have never had it so good and yet you continue with the idiotic mantra that you got sold and bought into - hook, line and sinker. The "Millionaire Migration" myth is exactly that, a myth - A scare tactic capable of perhaps frightening simple conservative minds like yours into repeating the same old tired, discredited arguments ad nauseam -once again simply not backed up by the facts as they stand. Quote: which particular subject? you sort of ranted and raved all over the place. You know, healthcare... the subject you flapped your gums about and then got called on, showing yourself up to be a willfully misinformed fool, then after a somewhat confused reactive ramble end on attempting to claim that the rebuttal was unfocused.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.04.05 17:04:00 - [78]
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:38:00 - [79] At this point these kinds of threads are just a waste. No...I don't trust "The Mittani" either but whats done is done. CCP isn't going to take an idea from any CSM that will break the game. CCP can do that on their own. Even if CCP did decide to hold another election for CSM it would take them at least 6 months to come to that conclusion and another 6 months to make it happen...at which point it is election time anyway. So for the time being I say we just kick back...relax and watch and see what the new CSM team does. I am sure there will be many tears and threats to ragequit...in which case...can I haz your stuffs and I need to go buy more popcorn. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!

CCP Zymurgist Gallente C C P	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:42:00 - [80] Thread cleaned. Please do not discuss real world politics on the EVE Online forums. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us


Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 20:32:00 - [81] Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 20:36:15 Originally by: Habaticus Originally by: Hratli Smirks Originally by: Habaticus Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," I don't believe it is possible to marginalize the Assembly Hall any more than it already has been Have you ever seen so many Goonie bees around one hive. Guess they swarm when their QUEEN Bee is being talked about. All kidding aside, have you ever seen such Goon participation in the Assembly Hall. That is great but for the fact they want to marginalized it so the Chairman doesn't feel the need to be obligated to represent the whole Communnity. That is what I would do if I had the big stick and was obsessed with an agenda I wanted to push. Hey this may all be hysteria (hope so), but warrents watching considering the Chairman's past history that obviously has nothing to do with our alliance having thousands of members, of course. every CSM delegate was legitimately elected according to CCP's rules concerning CSM elections. therefore, there is no reason to start a new election.
Sephiroth CloneVII	Posted - 2011.04.05 23:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Andski Edited by: Andski on 05/04/2011 20:36:15 Originally by: Habaticus Originally by: Hratli Smirks Originally by: Habaticus Be careful though, he's already trying to marginalize "The Assembly Hall," I don't believe it is possible to marginalize the Assembly Hall any more than it already has been Have you ever seen so many Goonie bees around one hive. Guess they swarm when their QUEEN Bee is being talked about. All kidding aside, have you ever seen such Goon participation in the Assembly Hall. That is great but for the fact they want to marginalized it so the Chairman doesn't feel the need to be obligated to represent the whole Communnity. That is what I would do if I had the big stick and was obsessed with an agenda I wanted to push. Hey this may all be hysteria (hope so), but warrents watching considering the Chairman's past history that obviously has nothing to do with our alliance having thousands of members, of course. every CSM delegate was legitimately elected according to CCP's rules concerning CSM elections. therefore, there is no reason to start a new election. It is not a legitimate election if the mittani's character was not born in the eve universe. I want to see the mittani's in game birth certificate.
The Mittani	Posted - 2011.04.05 23:45:00 - [83] wait does he mean 'elected' chairman or 'alleged' chairman i can't tell through all the drooling idiocy The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Aegis Stormborn UNKN0WN ENTITY	Posted - 2011.04.06 00:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Atlas Tears I could write a thesis on why you are ******ed but CBA. Goons are annoying but not out to ruin the game, you are astoundingly stupid. Not supported. However, I would support your termination. (In game ofc)
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.04.06 10:05:00 - [85] Originally by: The Mittani wait does he mean 'elected' chairman or 'alleged' chairman i can't tell through all the drooling idiocy Yeah, I was wondering what "eleged" meant... Honestly, I've brought some cheese along to go with the whine. The election happened, votes were cast, somebody got more votes than somebody else. I didn't get enough votes to get in... boo frickin hoo. This was one of the biggest voter turnouts of any CSM election. That means that this CSM is the most representative of the EVE population. If you don't like the way the the most representative CSM turned out, perhaps you should get involved and run yourself next time. As for Goons posting in F&I, and then the AH, the CSM is effectively a filter for CCP - if CCP employees had to wade through all the bad ideas that get posted there (over and over again), they'd have no time to actually implement anything. Goons shutting down the bad/game breaking ideas (which is what I've observed) simply makes less noise for the CSM to wade through so they can focus on the occasional idea with some merit. One could call it "academic rigour".
Swynet	Posted - 2011.04.06 18:26:00 - [86] @OP People have voted he got elected there's nothing to say now. No matter if you like it or not, if you wanted to do something you should have done it when elections time was up. This kind of thread is ridiculous! If you want to do something now the best you can do is start to work for next year elections. I don't like neither to see Goons at the CSM but the fact is that now they have the chance to prove to all of us who don't believe them that they really care about this game and the common good. They may seem but they are not stupid, they know there will be consequences from whatever they will do at the CSM for all this year. Now it's time to show some people are wrong and I bet they will. Get your pants up, let them work before doing stuff like this thread. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
Usahina	Posted - 2011.04.06 20:48:00 - [87] I also don't thrust the Mittani, or you, or that bearded woman, or the pope, or even myself (an obvious poasting alt if there ever was one). That is because this is still eve online, and there is nothing wrong with Machiavellian politics. Even if the defendant was chosen just because he is in GS, it's still a choice from a large enough player base, thus democratically sound.
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.06 20:55:00 - [88] I still can't decide if I am amused by the very concept of a "petition of distrust" or an "alleged chairman". Perhaps I don't have to decide. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Aralyn Cormallen Wraith.Wing Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.04.07 11:03:00 - [89] Originally by: Andski Then again, I can't say I expect intelligent ideas from a guy who belongs to a corporation with a dot in its name, which in turn belongs to an alliance with a dot in its name. Oi, biatch, I resemble that remark. Why you no love us no more On topic, OP is a moron. Mittens only took 1700 Goon votes, meaning he would have still gotten into the CSM even if not one single Goon voted for him (christ, he would have only just narrowly missed on the chair even). Think on that.
The Mittani	Posted - 2011.04.16 05:36:00 - [90] a lot of days i don't even trust myself, it makes folks feel better! The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster

Dalketh	Posted - 2011.04.16 08:17:00 - [91] Edited by: Dalketh on 16/04/2011 08:18:10 Congrats - no one else outside of the goons trusts you either. Yes you have every right to 'suggest' your alliance vote en mass to get you in, but you knew what conflict that would cause in the community after the childish sarcastic campaign you ran. You made the CSM into a joke. Am sure that makes you proud though. Sad. Originally by: The Mittani a lot of days i don't even trust myself, it makes folks feel better!
Trebor Daehdoow	Posted - 2011.04.16 09:52:00 - [92] Originally by: Dalketh You made the CSM into a joke. Am sure that makes you proud though. Sad. I find it truly amusing how many people simply can't distinguish between The Mittani, Internet Spaceships Douchebag, and Alex, RL member of the CSM. The former wants to cause you pain. The latter wants to improve the game so as to provide The Mittani with more opportunities to cause you pain. If you really want to stick it to The Mittani, just ignore the trolling and reply to any substantial comments he makes with calm, sober, well-considered replies. It will drive him nucking futs.
The Mittani	Posted - 2011.04.17 00:00:00 - [93] Edited by: The Mittani on 17/04/2011 00:00:35 Originally by: Dalketh Edited by: Dalketh on 16/04/2011 08:18:10 Congrats - no one else outside of the goons trusts you either. Yes you have every right to 'suggest' your alliance vote en mass to get you in, but you knew what conflict that would cause in the community after the childish sarcastic campaign you ran. You made the CSM into a joke. Am sure that makes you proud though. Sad. Originally by: The Mittani a lot of days i don't even trust myself, it makes folks feel better! your suffering amuses me edit: also trebor's basically right The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Seleene	Posted - 2011.04.17 00:04:00 - [94] How did I miss this thread? Mittens, quick, tell me what to post! ---- My Blog - Where I say stuff.
The Mittani	Posted - 2011.04.17 00:06:00 - [95] post something about how your ideas are entirely your own and you're not being coerced by me in any way, shape or form - you just happen to agree with me people love that ****~ The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Draco Llasa	Posted - 2011.04.17 00:14:00 - [96] blank stare i am my own person.. i am in no way under the mind control of the mittens. srsly guys.. troll more this is true entertainment
Ganthrithor Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.17 07:20:00 - [97] MY ELEGED CEO MY ELEGED CSM <3<3<3
Blind Brother	Posted - 2011.04.17 07:25:00 - [98] I think he's just sore because he's in the wrong alliance.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.17 08:47:00 - [99] I, for one, am quite happy with the current lineup and especially the chairman of the CSM. The player base got what it deserved (for not taking more of an interest), but it also got what it NEEDED... because, let's face it, THIS particular CSM will probably be the one most likely to actually push SOME of the better stuff, since it presents a mostly united front. So, sorry, OP, totally and completely NOT supported. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Talas Dir Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.17 09:20:00 - [100] perhaps it didn't occur to you, but there are people outside of alliance blocks that support the candidates they put forward. the first 5 csm's had their chance. now it's time for a real csm to represent the real eve players.

Jessie42 Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.17 09:33:00 - [101] lmao Chairman lmao actually.
Sleevedace GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.17 09:36:00 - [102] The idea of a democracy is lost on some people.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.17 09:39:00 - [103] Originally by: Sleevedace The idea of a democracy is lost on some people. Let's have a vote to abolish democracy ! _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:42:00 - [104] Originally by: Talas Dir perhaps it didn't occur to you, but there are people outside of alliance blocks that support the candidates they put forward. the first 5 csm's had their chance. now it's time for a real csm to represent the real eve players. ****stupid colour; didn't read.
Drem Aldent	Posted - 2011.04.17 12:26:00 - [105] Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd Edited by: Tronjay the''3rd on 29/03/2011 12:01:44 Due to the outcome of the elections of CSM6, I and several fellow EVE podpilots can not support the elected members of CSM6. It is obvious The Mittani is chosen NOT because of his view on EVE, but just because of the mere fact that he is a Goon. Goons voted blindly for their representative, hoping that his election into CSM6 will benefit just Goons&friends in the near future. This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. I call upon all EVE podpilots to petition for a new election of CSM6 and new election mechanics. How? Maybe only 1 vote per alliance and/or Corporation? (discuss) Also it would be nice to see and hear CCP's view on this matter. First of all, this is a troll. Second, thats the way democracy works, Deal with it kid.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.04.17 17:00:00 - [106] Originally by: Hallan De'estus The voters have spoken. The candidates took the time and effort to campaign, and to organize supporters. If those elected perform well, and choose to run again, odds are that they will be re-elected. System working as intended.... I disagree. This isn't voting for a president (ie 1 leader) where electoral colleges etc are involved. CSM is more like voting for congress. In these cases, each state has a certain number of seats that they can fill depending on their population. So what CSM is missing is some sort of tie to the constituents that the representatives are supposed to be representing. For example if say, 70% of the population in EVE live in Empire space, then 70% of CSM seats should be from there and so forth. The problem is how you can register people to a constituency. I'm not sure how this can be done, but one way may be to instead divide up New Eden into corporation/alliance constituents. At a given census time, all corp membership is recorded and the populations of each alliance/corp tallied. Sort them first by Alliance, then sort them by Empire/pirate faction (using perhaps the top standing faction they are friendly with). Evenly subdivide the total population of New Eden by the number of seats on the CSM, and every multiple of the number each group of constituents has earns them 1 seat for that group. What we want to achieve here is proper representation of the population, and not the upholding of the elite establishment by large alliances. Founding Fathers once had the same problem, and we all know where that ended up.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.04.17 17:15:00 - [107]
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.17 17:38:00 - [108] Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 17/04/2011 17:38:50 Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Tronjay the'3rd This CSM-council is a farce and became nothing more then a platform of Big alliances and their representatives. The independant CSM applicants stand little or no chance of becoming a CSM member, if and when a big alliances urges their members to vote for an alliance member. This has to change. This is democracy, direct your complaints to UN Populism =/= democracy. It was an issue that I brought up when the final draft of the proposal paper (the one that went to the NYtimes) was shown to me at fanfest and I am quite suprised that it took 6 cycles to reach this stage. The point is, a streight up numbers voting system like this does not reprisent minorities (like FW) that will never reach the organizational and numerical advantage that voting blocks such as 0.0 (which completely dominate this year and will dominate from this year onwards until they lose interest - i.e. it becomes useless). I suppose its not a problem for societies that don't have (or do not recognize/care about minorities such as iceland and switzerland).
Lykouleon Bad Kitty Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.17 18:46:00 - [109] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 17/04/2011 17:38:50The point is, a streight up numbers voting system like this does not reprisent minorities (like FW) that will never reach the organizational and numerical advantage that voting blocks such as 0.0 (which completely dominate this year and will dominate from this year onwards until they lose interest - i.e. it becomes useless). You're assuming two things. First, every member of 0.0 votes for a 0.0 candidate, and two, 0.0 candidates don't add aspects of FW/highsec/lowsec changes to their platforms to get votes outside their normal powerblocs (lol, politics...). Unless you can prove otherwise, Mittens (and other members of the CSM) weren't elected just due to their good looks and charm. They were elected based on platforms and their ability to get their message out to the voters. People that did well in this election cycle actually took the time and ~effort~ to get their constituents out to vote for them (or candidates with like-minded interests). "Minority" candidates have the same opportunities as "major" candidates and simply squandered it (for the most part). For example, I didn't hear about any PIE. candidates in the current election cycle. Did they have a decent platform? You're also assuming the age-old fallacy that all goons in EVE are in Goonswarm and that all goons run around like mindless children. Besides my ranting, come on...who could distrust Mittens? Just look at his adorable little smile, his sweet, flowing hair, his soothing voice... :swoon: Don't click on this. No, really, don't, it'll make your eyes bleed.
Alias 6322A	Posted - 2011.04.18 01:42:00 - [110] Is it just me, or do people forget two important facts: 1) There is one vote per account, therefore, it is much more likely that far more experienced players (mostly found in nullsec, I hope) will inherently have more weight in an election than newer hisec players that have only one account. My three votes are more than your one, even though there is only one player. New players won't invest in multiple accounts unless they have lots of money or realize quickly the benefits...in general they won't because they aren't ready to commit to EVE as their game that early. 2) Newer players often don't know TO vote. They see the ad on the client login, maybe on the website if they visit it often enough, but likely won't vote because they don't know any of the players. They often realize they lack the knowledge to make such a decision since most candidates portray themselves towards either a grandiose (and complex) vision of EVE or nullsec fixes, neither of which new players understand. All CSM's are inherently going to be weighted a certain way because, like EVE is a niche game in the market, those who vote are a niche market in EVE. If you want to prove the elections are flawed, have a player actively campaign new players (such as earning E-Uni's total support) and gain a ton of votes with new players, only to lose anyways. Elections will forever be lopsided unless candidates make it a point to work together to involve more players in the voting process. Why should CCP changed the CSM when the players that take the time to vote got what they wanted? You and your few friends would have voted someone that benefits you too, that's why you vote! If you want that person to win, YOU should have made it a point to find them more votes. Votes should continue to be on a single account basis. Those who are willing to dedicate the funds to CCP deserve a vote for each account. They want to see the game continue, and they obviously have a vested interest in the game's success because of that.

Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.04.18 13:09:00 - [111] Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 18/04/2011 13:12:36 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 18/04/2011 13:11:36 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 18/04/2011 13:10:06 Originally by: Lykouleon Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 17/04/2011 17:38:50The point is, a streight up numbers voting system like this does not reprisent minorities (like FW) that will never reach the organizational and numerical advantage that voting blocks such as 0.0 (which completely dominate this year and will dominate from this year onwards until they lose interest - i.e. it becomes useless). You're assuming two things. First, every member of 0.0 votes for a 0.0 candidate, and two, 0.0 candidates don't add aspects of FW/highsec/lowsec changes to their platforms to get votes outside their normal powerblocs (lol, politics...). Unless you can prove otherwise, Mittens (and other members of the CSM) weren't elected just due to their good looks and charm. They were elected based on platforms and their ability to get their message out to the voters. People that did well in this election cycle actually took the time and ~effort~ to get their constituents out to vote for them (or candidates with like-minded interests). "Minority" candidates have the same opportunities as "major" candidates and simply squandered it (for the most part). Maybe they didn't bother, because they knew that (for example) given that only 2% of accounts are active in FW, then what is the point on campaigning on a FW platform? Even if they DID get all players in FW to vote for them, they won't dent the 0.0 votes. Now if CCP dictates groups of constituents (based on a census or a survey of all players, and how each player choose to identify themselves as) then that would incentivize more minority players to run for CSM (because frankly, who wants to bother if they have no statistical chance of winning?) For example, before the next CSM, have a survey that all players are encouraged to fill out, which asks each player (1 per account) Which best classifies what you spend most time doing in EVE in the past year: 1) PvP 2) PvE 3) Mining 4) Industry 5) Exploration 6) Trading 7) Corporate Management/PIE 8) Faction Wars 9) Pirating Where do you spend most of your time: 1)Empire 2)LowSec 3)Null 4)Empire Null 5)WH That should bucket the population into groups which can then be assign a number of seats (depending on proportion). Each player can then vote for a candidate for that seat(s). IE, players who are identified as Null Sec PvP, can only cast a vote for the candidates running for the Null Sec PvP seat(s). As an aside, I believe that any argument that a goon (or better 1+ goons) on the CSM (sorry, I don't mean to pick on goons, just a handy example) is not biased is going to be flawed. Even if they had the best intentions in mind, I doubt that a player that spends 100% of his time and experience playing in null sec is going to give the same mindshare to a suggestion that affects empire space or FW than one that is more familiar to them on a daily basis. They just may not have the experience in the other aspects of the game to be able to contribute as well as somebody who do spend all of their time there. This system is not without its flaws, but I think it would at least give a chance at letting the lesser (in terms of population) aspects of the game get some coverage and spotlight, and chance at improvement. It's arguable that those sometimes forgotten aspects are the ones that should get some more attention after all.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.18 17:30:00 - [112] Originally by: Lykouleon You're assuming two things. First, every member of 0.0 votes for a 0.0 candidate, and two, 0.0 candidates don't add aspects of FW/highsec/lowsec changes to their platforms to get votes outside their normal powerblocs (lol, politics...). On the first point - it makes perfect sense to vote for someone who will reprisent your interests at CSM - so a 0.0 player not voting for a rep. from 0.0 would be odd. On the second point however - you do realize that FW has had no changes since launch, is basically broken, and CCP did not even show up this fanfest to th round-table for it yah? No CSM has reprisented FW (just to focus on that) and looking at the voting numbers - no CSM can be voted in on a FW ticket. (the numbers just don't add up) Originally by: Lykouleon Unless you can prove otherwise, Mittens (and other members of the CSM) weren't elected just due to their good looks and charm. They were elected based on platforms and their ability to get their message out to the voters. People that did well in this election cycle actually took the time and ~effort~ to get their constituents out to vote for them (or candidates with like-minded interests). "Minority" candidates have the same opportunities as "major" candidates and simply squandered it (for the most part). For example, I didn't hear about any PIE. candidates in the current election cycle. Did they have a decent platform? You're also assuming the age-old fallacy that all goons in EVE are in Goonswarm and that all goons run around like mindless children. I don't care if its the alliance leader of GSF, or whatever - thats the OPs concern. My concern is that minorities (like fw)are not being reprisneted and while it may sem only fair that the better organized 0.0 alliances should vote their own membes into CSM - it undermines the idea that CSM reprisnts the community. If there is any change to anything that is not related to 0.0 (moon goo, 0.0 sov mechanics, some pvp tweaking, logistics) I will be suprised. i think this is a problem in terms of what csm was designed to do - but - i am also glad that at least someone is getting their voice heard. so more power to them.
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.18 18:07:00 - [113] Look...I would love to be the first person to say anything negative about Mittani and Goonswarm but there are too many people ahead of me in the line for that one. I will say I am however the last person to ever support Goonswarm...IN GAME. That said...while it is true that Mittani is a distrustful ass of a gnome in game I don't believe that he as a CSM are the same. Listen to the Fireside chat that was posted today. He in no way shows any interest in **ing over the game to benifit Goonswarm. Even if he did he is not the entire CSM. There are others there to keep him in line. He is working with the rest of the CSM and taking input from the players through the Assembly Hall to get done what needs to be done. Do I fully support him? No. But I am not in direct opposition of him either. Despite his in-game jackassery he does have some good ideas and he does have the real life experience to get the job done. Threads like this do nothing but build mistrust and hinder the process. Does he deserve that mistrust? Yeah...but at this point nothing we say or do will change the fact that he is the CSM chairman. NOTHING! CCP is not going to kick him out. He was voted into his position and no amount of whining is going to change that. Let him do what he needs to do. Give him constructive criticism and ideas to help better the game. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!**
Merrik Talorra Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.20 17:05:00 - [114] This thread is amazing. Finding out that Molle told an NY Times reporter that he planned to take over all of EVE has made my freakin day
Vile rat	Posted - 2011.04.20 17:19:00 - [115] Edited by: Vile rat on 20/04/2011 17:19:21 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I don't care if its the alliance leader of GSF, or whatever - thats the OPs concern. My concern is that minorities (like fw)are not being reprisneted and while it may sem only fair that the better organized 0.0 alliances should vote their own membes into CSM - it undermines the idea that CSM reprisnts the community. If there is any change to anything that is not related to 0.0 (moon goo, 0.0 sov mechanics, some pvp tweaking, logistics) I will be suprised. i think this is a problem in terms of what csm was designed to do - but - i am also glad that at least someone is getting their voice heard. so more power to them. If you think your pet issue is not getting due attention I strongly encourage you to reach out and contact CSM reps and tell them about your point of view. If you don't think I have the expertise and knowledge to represent your concerns then learn me on them. If you think I'm not gonna be able to tackle FW properly or raise concerns when new changes are proposed, then convo me and sit me down for an earful on what you've experienced and what you think needs work. I think you'll find we're all really approachable about this kind of stuff and want to learn as much as we can in areas we aren't as strong. One other thing, our persistent skype chat gives us a great opportunity for back and forth with CSM members who have more specialized knowledge about things. Information flow is happening really quickly which should make for a better informed set of reps.
Tamir Lenk Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.20 18:45:00 - [116] CSM6 is truly an outrage and a failure of the system. Goons cannot be trusted with the same voting privileges extended to ~real EVE players~ and their votes must be discounted. I propose reducing Goon votes to 3/5 of a real vote.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.04.20 19:56:00 - [117] Originally by: Tamir Lenk CSM6 is truly an outrage and a failure of the system. Goons cannot be trusted with the same voting privileges extended to ~real EVE players~ and their votes must be discounted. I propose reducing Goon votes to 3/5 of a real vote. i wasn't aware goons were black ♥
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.20 21:00:00 - [118] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Tamir Lenk CSM6 is truly an outrage and a failure of the system. Goons cannot be trusted with the same voting privileges extended to ~real EVE players~ and their votes must be discounted. I propose reducing Goon votes to 3/5 of a real vote. i wasn't aware goons were black You've never been on one of our fleet ops, then.
Alexander Third Crystal Industries	Posted - 2011.05.09 02:01:00 - [119] Originally by: The Mittani your suffering and incoherence pleases me. ~1700 votes for me came from GSF, the rest from the community as a whole more threads like this please, i require a constant supply of agony to maintain interest in this game~ Weren't you that guy who got those people to blow up my hulk?
Yeep GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.09 09:10:00 - [120] People who play the game the way I play it (the correct way) should have their votes count more than people who play the game the way you play it (the wrong way). Sure there are fewer of me but thats just because not everyone can be as smart as me and you have to be pretty smart to play the game the way I play it (the correct way) otherwise I would be playing some other way.

Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.09 15:04:00 - [121] Originally by: Alexander Third Originally by: The Mittani your suffering and incoherence pleases me. ~1700 votes for me came from GSF, the rest from the community as a whole more threads like this please, i require a constant supply of agony to maintain interest in this game~ Weren't you that guy who got those people to blow up my hulk? yeah the mittani directly ordered three pilots to infiltrate crystal industries and disrupt a mining operation, heh get real
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.09 16:17:00 - [122] The Mittani can sodomize kittens in his free time for all I care, just so long as he gets results.
Darryl Ward	Posted - 2011.05.10 16:01:00 - [123] As much as I despise the big power blocs dominating the CSM, particularly Goons, I'm not surprised it happened. Welcome to politics: you win because you are more popular. You have more votes. How good of a delegate you will be, how seriously you take the CSM and how good your ideas are don't matter. It's the same in the real world. Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried. There really is no fair way to improve CSM delegate selection, so we get what we get. I voted for candidates that had no chance of winning, I wouldn't change my vote if I could. These candidates that have no chance of winning though, they could try to rally the same type of large bloc support as the Goons do... You will need that to win.
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.10 23:20:00 - [124] Edited by: Mars Theran on 10/05/2011 23:20:54 Originally by: Darryl Ward As much as I despise the big power blocs dominating the CSM, particularly Goons, I'm not surprised it happened. Welcome to politics: you win because you are more popular. You have more votes. How good of a delegate you will be, how seriously you take the CSM and how good your ideas are don't matter. It's the same in the real world. Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried. There really is no fair way to improve CSM delegate selection, so we get what we get. I voted for candidates that had no chance of winning, I wouldn't change my vote if I could. These candidates that have no chance of winning though, they could try to rally the same type of large bloc support as the Goons do... You will need that to win. While I agree with you on popularity being the primary contributing factor to election results in a democratic form of government, I have to say everything indicates the Mittani and current CSM is doing what it should. Even if the did scam their way in Not saying it's right for them to do that, but, (this once), it is funny.
Veilo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.11 00:23:00 - [125] I am entering text into a troll discussion.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.05.11 05:59:00 - [126] Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim I agree that the Goonswarm Federation is a problem for the CSM, but I think the problem lies in human nature. While having an electoral college sounds good in theory, in practice it fails due to the overwhelming ineptitude of the masses under it to elect reasonable delegates at any level, let alone at the foundation where it matters most. How do you fix it? Sad to say, I think the only way is to keep educating people while implementing changes wherever you can that force them out of their secure little bubble of complacency. I don't expect the problem to go away for millions of years, simply because I think it lies at the heart of our species and will require some serious mental evolution before it is fixed. Until then, we deal with it as best we can. I support the idea of the electoral college. Does that mean I support this thread? I think so but I'm not sure. I'll thumb it up anyway. You know there are other systems of democracy out there that work better, namely constituent based representation. (parliamentary system) If 100% of players see themselves as 0.0ers, then 100% of CSM should be 0.0ers. If its a 30/20/50 spilt, then so should the number of seats be allocated in the CSM to reflect this ratio. Right now the problem with this system is that its more like a high school prom queen contest, or a dictatorship puppet democracy.
Danika Princip Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2011.05.11 11:55:00 - [127] Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 11/05/2011 06:20:27 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 11/05/2011 06:18:59 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 11/05/2011 06:17:47 Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim I agree that the Goonswarm Federation is a problem for the CSM, but I think the problem lies in human nature. While having an electoral college sounds good in theory, in practice it fails due to the overwhelming ineptitude of the masses under it to elect reasonable delegates at any level, let alone at the foundation where it matters most. How do you fix it? Sad to say, I think the only way is to keep educating people while implementing changes wherever you can that force them out of their secure little bubble of complacency. I don't expect the problem to go away for millions of years, simply because I think it lies at the heart of our species and will require some serious mental evolution before it is fixed. Until then, we deal with it as best we can. I support the idea of the electoral college. Does that mean I support this thread? I think so but I'm not sure. I'll thumb it up anyway. You know there are other systems of democracy out there that work better, namely constituent based representation. (parliamentary system) If 100% of players see themselves as 0.0ers, then 100% of CSM should be 0.0ers. If its a 30/20/50 split, then so should the number of seats be allocated in the CSM to reflect this ratio. Right now the problem with this system is that its more like a high school prom queen contest, or a dictatorship puppet democracy. Can anyone think of a good reason why the number of seats in CSM7 should NOT be determined by a census of players? (or something like a QEN snapshot?) I'm totally fine with goons dominance of the portion of CSM seats alloted to nullsec delegates, (assuming they get the popular null sec votes). I AM against the whole of CSM being dominated by nullsec players (unless 100% of the players in EVE are nullsec players) just because of a flaw in the voting system. Leaving a large portion of the players unrepresented with little CSM expertise in some areas of gameplay. By the way, the flaw in the pseudo-democracy system here is that its a popular vote system. Every player gets 1 vote, each is worth the same, and there are no limits to the seats on CSM up for election. What this is analogous to is this: Have anyone who is an an American be allowed to run for congress. There are 20 congress seats up for grabs. With NO restrictions on WHERE the candidates are living to determine validity of candidacy. Does this sound fair? If it does, your congress would be full of Californians and New Yorkers as they have they highest populations and everyone will likely vote for 'their own'. Taken to the next level, if we let CCP run the elections for the United Nations, all your representatives would be Chinese. Sure, lot's of these Chinese ministers DO have it in their hearts to do a good job representing you westerners, but when it comes down to it, if it came to a point where they have to make a decision that would harm china in lieu of benefiting Americans, do you think that they would? Would you trust them to be impartial? Given that the last CSM is working on things for 0.0, from the devblog about the JB nerf there is plenty more in the works, does it not make sense to have a lot of 0.0 input on things? A bunch of empire carebears are not the people who should be deciding how sov warfare changes. Even with a nullsec dominated CSM, we're getting hit with the nerf bat over and over again, with an all empire CSM it would only get worse. Who would you rather put in charge of a ship? the guy who'd been commanding ships for years, or the guy who once went on a ferry and got seasick in the harbour?
Swynet	Posted - 2011.05.11 13:24:00 - [128] Why is this stupid thread still opened?
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.05.11 14:26:00 - [129] Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 11/05/2011 14:38:29 Originally by: Danika Princip Given that the last CSM is working on things for 0.0, from the devblog about the JB nerf there is plenty more in the works, does it not make sense to have a lot of 0.0 input on things? A bunch of empire carebears are not the people who should be deciding how sov warfare changes. Even with a nullsec dominated CSM, we're getting hit with the nerf bat over and over again, with an all empire CSM it would only get worse :) so you think that the world should be ruled by Chinese? Seriously though, I agree with your point. Put the experts to do what they do best. But that isn't the problem. The problem is not how CSM executes their job. My problem is misrepresentation of the population in EVE, which is contradictory to what CSM is supposed to do. What's to stop experts to contributing to fixing things in null sec land, if they were not CSM's? I don't know what CSM5 was up to, and if you say it was 100% 0.0 stuff, then my arguement is that it shouldn't have been, IF 70% of paying EVE players are 'carebears'. CSM's job is to help decide the priority of changes to be made, and it makes no sense if CSM doesn't represent the population distribution of their constituents in doing so. Quote: Who would you rather put in charge of a ship? the guy who'd been commanding ships for years, or the guy who once went on a ferry and got seasick in the harbour? Yes. And I wouldn't be putting a NASCAR driver at the helm of the boat either, and being a 0.0 expert (Nascar star) doesn't automatically make you a good ship captain. CSM needs to have all representation from all citizens of EVE, because some people are in ships while some are playing NASCAR in the game. If 50% of players operate in 0.0, then you only need Mittani and 5 others on CSM. the other 6 seats should go to people from other backgrounds in different parts of the game. I seriously don't see why anyone should think that this isn't the right thing to do (especially when you choose to identify yourself as a member of whichever constituent you wish in the 'census')
Yeep GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.11 19:06:00 - [130] Originally by: Kaelie Onren You know there are other systems of democracy out there that work better, namely constituent based representation. (parliamentary system) So where do you draw the constituency lines? People in eve don't have permenant addresses. On top of that it sounds like what you really want is one constituency per playstyle in which case who gets to decide which groups of people are worthy of their own representative and which aren't? Even then thats basically the equivalent of saying every political party gets one member of parliament and they can vote interally as to who it is. Constituencies (at least here in the UK) aim to be roughly equal size, how do you propose to work with that? The closest you could get is probably dividing people by character age but my gut feeling says you'd end up with the same result as we got in the last election with way more overhead.

rootimus maximus Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.11 20:03:00 - [131] I, too, think this is an urgent situation that demands CCP's immediate attention. The CSM have barely finished moving in to their offices at the start of their term and it's already evident that they're doubleplus ungood and will destroy Eve, then the real world, followed by day 3. Apparently the OP and I are the only ones here who can see the future. (Either that, or OP is a Mittani alt looking for more attention, in which case I'm a bad llama for feeding the troll).
Marketaria	Posted - 2011.05.11 22:11:00 - [132] actually, somehow this issue isn't that stupid at all. yes the csm delegates have been elected by players, every account had a chance to vote for a candidate they liked..BUT. i'm in one of the big alliances, and it's absolutely usual to "ask" the members to vote for our own candidate; more because the alliance wants more "political power" or better oportunities to alter game mechanics the way they like then the candidate to be a representative for all eve players. however you have to understand that thats the way politics work in the real world too - just consider alliances as political parties: they normaly vote for own candidates; its the same in eve. just my 2 cents
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2011.05.11 23:57:00 - [133] Who cares who calls the tunes, who cares who pulls the punches, the damage is done.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.05.12 00:30:00 - [134] Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 12/05/2011 00:33:14 Originally by: Yeep Originally by: Kaelie Onren You know there are other systems of democracy out there that work better, namely constituent based representation. (parliamentary system) So where do you draw the constituency lines? People in eve don't have permenant addresses. On top of that it sounds like what you really want is one constituency per playstyle in which case who gets to decide which groups of people are worthy of their own representative and which aren't? Even then thats basically the equivalent of saying every political party gets one member of parliament and they can vote interally as to who it is. Constituencies (at least here in the UK) aim to be roughly equal size, how do you propose to work with that? The closest you could get is probably dividing people by character age but my gut feeling says you'd end up with the same result as we got in the last election with way more overhead. My proposal was earlier on in this thread. :) Can you read that and let me know if you see any potential problems with it? (about 20 posts up) same page (4)
Dav Varan	Posted - 2011.05.13 09:17:00 - [135] 9/10.
Derpderp derpderp	Posted - 2011.05.14 01:55:00 - [136] +1 would read again. No problems with mittens and I am not a goon. It is just amazing to read all this.


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