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Even the worst 0.0 should be better then L4 Missions!

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ButteSauce	Posted - 2011.04.05 04:46:00 - [1] Want to get people out to 0.0? Make even the worst 0.0 space better then running L4 missions. Discuss!
Dr Richard Dawkins	Posted - 2011.04.05 04:54:00 - [2] MMmmm nullbear tears.
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.04.05 04:57:00 - [3] Im in npc 0.0 and im making more than l4 missions.. l2 probe.
Dr Richard Dawkins	Posted - 2011.04.05 04:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Herrring Im in npc 0.0 and im making more than l4 missions.. l2 probe. Not empty quoting.
Bane Necran Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:01:00 - [5] I can't wait until all these people in 0.0 finally do L4 missions, and start coming to the forums asking for their drops to be improved. Maybe CCP will listen to them.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:04:00 - [6] meh your not in 0.0 to run missions, your in 0.0 to moonmine. everything else In 0.0 is there to make moonmining posible Still after all this time. .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo
Lucia Sarain Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:18:00 - [7] Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 .
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later.
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. There are lv4 missions in null already.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. sooo you want 0-0 space littered with thousands of npc stations. . . .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 05:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Herrring Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. There are lv4 missions in null already. You misunderstand. Level 4 missions will only be available in null. Level 2&3 missions will only be available in lowsec and level 1 missions will be the only thing you can run in the safety of highsec. It might sound scary but it's for the best. Trust us.
Baron Onis	Posted - 2011.04.05 06:23:00 - [12] I do hope you're trolling. Because that is the worst idea I've ever heard. Yeah it'll get some more people out to 0.0, but you will completely kill the entire casual player population of the game. There are an immense amount of people that run around in npc corps/buddy corps and run missions in high sec, if you take away their missions, they won't join up and go to 0.0, they'll just quit.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 06:42:00 - [13] Goons are certainly not known to be trolls. Trust us, these crowdsourcing ideals will lead to innovative vertical technologies that will help CCP harness mission-critical users, enable scalable e-markets, synergize efficient infrastructures and orchestrate end-to-end content. As you can see we've put a lot of thought into this plan and we feel it's what the game needs at the current time.
Malande Amarr Solar Engineering Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.05 06:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. facepalm yes because CCP are going to be completely oblivious to the fact the CSM is highly biased this time round and will listen to everything they say as if its total truth! The CSM had started to work last time round because of some serious dedication from the members along with balanced(-ish) selection of views, this time i'm not so sure it'll be the same, most likely it'll be back to the old days of the CSM being sidelined, but this time due to 0.0 based CSM trolling -.-
FeralShadow RipStar. United Front Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.05 06:52:00 - [15] Assume all goons never troll. Some goons do troll. Therefore, it is not the case that all goons never troll. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.04.05 06:54:00 - [16] Want to make more ISK in 0.0? Read the Making ISK Guide. Also remember that more DED sites are coming, dropping better modules. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.05 07:05:00 - [17] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 05/04/2011 07:06:11 thoes new actualy improved DED complexes have been comeing since they stoped "iterating" on exploration. there still not on Sisi. no wait they actualy DID put new DED plexes on Sisi, then removed then and tried to pretend that they never happend. .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo
PewpewPatricia	Posted - 2011.04.05 08:30:00 - [18]
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Fags R Us	Posted - 2011.04.05 08:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. I hate that I agree with a goon... even if it is trolling... I'm going to go scrub myself with bleach -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Klandi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.04.05 09:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Goons are certainly not known to be trolls. Trust us, these crowdsourcing ideals will lead to innovative vertical technologies that will help CCP harness mission-critical users, enable scalable e-markets, synergize efficient infrastructures and orchestrate end-to-end content. An adequate contender for a game of bs bingo with that line of garbage.... tl;dr we just came up with an idea - not a particularly good one but it shows we can think..
Scorpyn Caldari Warp Ghosts Omega Spectres of the Deep	Posted - 2011.04.05 09:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet ...Level 4 missions will only be available in null. Level 2&3 missions will only be available in lowsec and level 1 missions will be the only thing you can run in the safety of highsec. It might sound scary but it's for the best. Trust us. I disagree. Something like this is better : Level 1 : 0.0 - 1.0 Level 2 : 0.0 - 0.7 Level 3 : 0.0 - 0.5 Level 4 : 0.0 - 0.4 Level 5 : 0.0 - 0.2
Theodoric Darkwind Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.05 09:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. That will make the pirates happy, oh wait the highsec carebears will just quit and there will be even fewer targets for the pirates. Though I do agree, even the worst nullsec should make more isk than L4 missions. L4s in a typical T1 BS with a T2 fit is decent isk but fairly grindy, doing them in some pimpsled faction BS or Marauder is just an insane isk faucet.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2011.04.05 09:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Herrring Im in npc 0.0 and im making more than l4 missions.. l2 probe. If everyone learn to probe your income will drasticlly drop.
Renan Ruivo Caldari Hipernova Tribal Conclave	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:04:00 - [24] It is, and it'll still be. Two words: Drake, Dominix. ____________ I like woman because breasts
Illwill Bill Reign of Anarchy	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Scorpyn Level 1 : 0.0 - 1.0 Level 2 : 0.0 - 0.7 Level 3 : 0.0 - 0.5 Level 4 : 0.0 - 0.4 Level 5 : 0.0 - 0.2 I support that. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
Kyara Stone	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:05:00 - [26] Edited by: Kyara Stone on 05/04/2011 10:06:30 Originally by: ButteSauce Want to get people out to 0.0? Make even the worst 0.0 space better then running L4 missions. dont think so. The only thing what it does is luring carebears into 0.0 under someones skirt, helping to monsterblobs. Extreme blobbage is getting more and more since dominion, this sucks! GTFO to high sec again.
Michael J Fox	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind That will make the pirates happy, oh wait the highsec carebears will just quit and there will be even fewer targets for the pirates. Though I do agree, even the worst nullsec should make more isk than L4 missions. in the recent economic report apparently 80% of eve players live in high sec, having the 'carebears' quit would effectively kill eve. the same follows - why should a mere 11% of the population that live in null make more than the vast majority (80%) that live in high? Balls i say!
Neamus	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Michael J Fox Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind That will make the pirates happy, oh wait the highsec carebears will just quit and there will be even fewer targets for the pirates. Though I do agree, even the worst nullsec should make more isk than L4 missions. in the recent economic report apparently 80% of eve players live in high sec, having the 'carebears' quit would effectively kill eve. the same follows - why should a mere 11% of the population that live in null make more than the vast majority (80%) that live in high? Balls i say! Risk vs reward. There needs to be some additional reward for going out there otherwise the high-bears will breed out of control and we'll have an ecological disaster on our hands. Eve without a vibrant nullsec would be pretty dull tbh, I know its a minority sport, but it also produces the most interesting stories in game and acts as a draw for new players.
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:36:00 - [29] Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Originally by: Herrring Im in npc 0.0 and im making more than l4 missions.. l2 probe. If everyone learn to probe your income will drasticlly drop. Oh yeah, forgot about that. Don't l2 probe.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.04.05 10:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Bane Necran I can't wait until all these people in 0.0 finally do L4 missions, and start coming to the forums asking for their drops to be improved. Maybe CCP will listen to them. We've done them, many 0.0 residents started off missioning. No way am I going back. Watching grass grow is more fun.
Saxton Hale	Posted - 2011.04.05 11:03:00 - [31] Why exactly is it so desirable to have empire carebears become nullsec carebears? They're still useless.
Scorpyn Caldari Warp Ghosts Omega Spectres of the Deep	Posted - 2011.04.05 11:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Saxton Hale Why exactly is it so desirable to have empire carebears become nullsec carebears? They're still useless. Food is never useless
Renan Ruivo Caldari Hipernova Tribal Conclave	Posted - 2011.04.05 11:38:00 - [33] Originally by: Neamus Minority Sport That was a very bad movie. ____________ I like woman because breasts
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.05 14:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Scorpyn Level 1 : 0.0 - 1.0 Level 2 : 0.0 - 0.7 Level 3 : 0.0 - 0.5 -30 < Q < 0 Level 3 : 0.0 - 0.4 q > 0 Level 4 : 0.0 - 0.3 -30 < Q < 0 Level 4 : 0.0 Q > 0 Level 5 : 0.0 /w system upgrades or similar mechanic Something like that, tbh
Renan Ruivo Caldari Hipernova Tribal Conclave	Posted - 2011.04.05 15:54:00 - [35] You people should lay-off the pipe.. ____________ I like woman because breasts
Gangster101 PureLove	Posted - 2011.04.05 16:04:00 - [36] I have no intentions of going to null sec. Too much stuff to do and enjoy in high sec
Montgomery Crabapple	Posted - 2011.04.05 16:31:00 - [37] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet You misunderstand. Level 4 missions will only be available in null. Level 2&3 missions will only be available in lowsec and level 1 missions will be the only thing you can run in the safety of highsec. It might sound scary but it's for the best. Trust us. Good luck with that. Not a chance in hell it's going to happen, so why waste your CSM promoting it? Someone didn't think it through .
Renan Ruivo Caldari Hipernova Tribal Conclave	Posted - 2011.04.05 16:59:00 - [38] As if the CSM got any idea on by themselves, lol. At best they get to say that they "pushed" an idea or feature that was authored by CCP themselves. ____________ I like woman because breasts
Stephen Mctowelieee	Posted - 2011.04.05 17:46:00 - [39] lol I made more in the Drone Regions than I do running lvl 4s. 0.0 doesn't need to make more money, while high sec carebears make less. Want to get people out to 0.0? Allow highsec carebears better protection, and put the hammer down on scammers. Even when highsecers try to move out there by buying sov from larger alliances, 90% of the time they end up getting scammed and vow NEVER to bother trying to get in to null again. I'm not saying the carebears are right, I'm saying if you are worried about dwindling nullsec populations, moving lvl 4s out to null is not the way. No you're a towel!
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Stephen Mctowelieee put the hammer down on scammers. Even when highsecers try to move out there by buying sov from larger alliances, 90% of the time they end up getting scammed and vow NEVER to bother trying to get in to null again. This is an excellent point. After the Goon CSM gets level 2,3,4 missions removed from highsec we will be implementing several anti-scamming measures that will help pilots who don't want to be restricted to running level 1 missions in highsec forever. Scamming is wrong and we won't stand for it.
Delkana Fox	Posted - 2011.04.05 19:35:00 - [41] Here is yet another dumb idea. Why not have the Empire factions randomly declare war on null sec alliances based on standing and have the fleets drop new tech 2 faction equipment and blueprints?
Freezehunter Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.04.05 19:44:00 - [42] Originally by: Bane Necran I can't wait until all these people in 0.0 finally do L4 missions, and start coming to the forums asking for their drops to be improved. Maybe CCP will listen to them. Happened to me... >.> Got a job yay! \o/ _________________________________________________ Be polite, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
cyndrogen	Posted - 2011.04.05 19:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Herrring Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. There are lv4 missions in null already. You misunderstand. Level 4 missions will only be available in null. Level 2&3 missions will only be available in lowsec and level 1 missions will be the only thing you can run in the safety of highsec. It might sound scary but it's for the best. Trust us. LOL do you know what happens to the ecosystem when you force everyone to quit? You WIN eve! Game over!
Klandi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.04.05 19:58:00 - [44] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Scamming is wrong and we won't stand for it. HAHAHAHA Scamming is wrong ... classic Two things there 1. The well known Goon scams that helped pilots who wanted to join GS and were left iskless and ship less because you scammed it off them, will you be outlawing those as well? 2. Scamming is approved of in this game by those that made it and that will not change. Not by this CSM and not by any other!!! Lots of kettle calling the pot black in this thread!!
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.05 20:01:00 - [45] Originally by: cyndrogen LOL do you know what happens to the ecosystem when you force everyone to quit? You WIN eve! Game over! Confirming that our ultimate goal is to win EVE and we do not feel the need to look past that. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Pfeng Tchuy	Posted - 2011.04.05 20:42:00 - [46] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Trust us. good post.
Stephen Mctowelieee	Posted - 2011.04.05 21:12:00 - [47] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Stephen Mctowelieee put the hammer down on scammers. Even when highsecers try to move out there by buying sov from larger alliances, 90% of the time they end up getting scammed and vow NEVER to bother trying to get in to null again. This is an excellent point. After the Goon CSM gets level 2,3,4 missions removed from highsec we will be implementing several anti-scamming measures that will help pilots who don't want to be restricted to running level 1 missions in highsec forever. Scamming is wrong and we won't stand for it. Hey don't get me wrong, I'm all for scamming. It's part of the game. I just seem to remember there being alot more newbs in null sec when there was a body like CVA around. The only way carebears can get in to null sec now is to leave their corporation/alliance, or as an alliance/corporation, try to buy their way in to 0.0, and when they get scammed out of 3 billion isk, they won't ever try to enter 0.0 again. It's tragic really. That's where all the money and fun is. The sov system has driven a huge wedge between PVPers and carebears. Oh well, life goes on. No you're a towel!
Scorpyn Caldari Warp Ghosts Omega Spectres of the Deep	Posted - 2011.04.05 21:38:00 - [48] The main problem with the idea of limiting certain agents to certain sec statuses is that it should have been introduced this way. Good luck changing all the agents to make this work, not to mention the iQuit threads that will spawn due to ppl losing their income. Originally by: Lady Go Diveher ... Level 5 : 0.0 /w system upgrades or similar mechanic ... This is a very bad idea. System upgrades (and sov in general) should be removed from the game, it makes no sense whatsoever (other than a lazy way of making the game appear to be more dynamic).
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.04.05 21:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Michael J Fox in the recent economic report apparently 80% of eve players live in high sec, having the 'carebears' quit would effectively kill eve. the same follows - why should a mere 11% of the population that live in null make more than the vast majority (80%) that live in high? Balls i say! For exactly the reasons stated in this thread over and over: to bring some of those 80% of players into the 60% of EVE universe that is 0.0. --- Originally by: Sporked EVE IS DYING RUN TO THE HILLS! WE MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS MMO! THEY MIGHT SHOOT AT US WHILE WE ARE BUSY HOLDING HANDS AND FROLICKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Lucious Shakiel	Posted - 2011.04.05 22:08:00 - [50] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. You make it sound like CCP even knows that the CSM exists.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.04.05 23:12:00 - [51] It is. I consistently made more off of a few hours a week probing sites and killing belt rats with an SB than I do grinding a couple hours a day in high-sec L4s. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.06 00:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Goons are certainly not known to be trolls. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA good one.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.04.06 01:33:00 - [53] You all need to let go of the idea that level 4 missions are moving out of highsec. Would be cool, won't happen in a billion years. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Conrad Makbure Gallente Teutonic Brotherhood	Posted - 2011.04.06 01:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. Eve can F off if this crap becomes a reality, but good attempt at a troll, at any rate. -Makbure
Neoexecutor Minmatar Skynet Technologies	Posted - 2011.04.06 01:49:00 - [55] Pop quiz, hotshot. What should lvl 4's IN 0.0 should be according to your theory here.
reddot22 Assene	Posted - 2011.04.06 02:11:00 - [56] you can move all missions to 0.0 i dont care not moving to it just wait when they need money for the game they will put them back roflol weddream most of you live in the has beens of eve old thinking dose not make money = what players want what they want = money thats what will be done to game no the small % that dont like it who cares
Doug Drafto	Posted - 2011.04.06 02:13:00 - [57] They should get rid of sanctums altogether. People should have to rat in belts if they want to rat. There should be some level of danger for living in 0.0. Currently there isn't and its no fun. All carebears or macroers.
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.06 02:16:00 - [58] Originally by: Doug Drafto They should get rid of sanctums altogether. People should have to rat in belts if they want to rat. There should be some level of danger for living in 0.0. Currently there isn't and its no fun. All carebears or macroers. Tell me what 0.0 system you live in, and I'll see if I can't change your perspective in the next few weeks (been a bit busy lately, might take a while).
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2011.04.06 03:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Steve Thomas meh your not in 0.0 to run missions, your in 0.0 to moonmine. everything else In 0.0 is there to make moonmining posible Still after all this time. That's the problem though. More people in 0.0 mining, ratting, mission running, more targets for us pvpers. If you could move even 50% of highsec mission runners to 0.0 for missions/ratting, even if they only made 25% more, there would be a massive increase in pvp. Not only in roaming gangs, but in defensive gangs. That's how 0.0 USED to be before moon mining. Ratters, miners, and the pvpers. People would rat/mine then ship up for pvp when hostiles came around to attack our ratters/miner. Used to be GREAT fun. ahh the days of "hostile" alliance's sending bs fleets down to fight for fun. Fight would happen, folks would GF in local, people would go home, rinse repeat.... ahh those were the days.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.04.06 03:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet ... Jeeze, you're getting some hella nice bites tonight. 11/10 -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Teranul	Posted - 2011.04.06 04:18:00 - [61] I'd say it was a good troll, and I WOULD have lol'd, if it weren't so blindingly obvious that it sailed right over the "so bad it's good" zone into the "so bad it's really ****ing bad" territory.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2011.04.06 04:24:00 - [62] It is
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.04.06 05:37:00 - [63] Originally by: Michael J Fox Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind That will make the pirates happy, oh wait the highsec carebears will just quit and there will be even fewer targets for the pirates. Though I do agree, even the worst nullsec should make more isk than L4 missions. in the recent economic report apparently 80% of eve players live in high sec, having the 'carebears' quit would effectively kill eve. the same follows - why should a mere 11% of the population that live in null make more than the vast majority (80%) that live in high? Balls i say! The same reason 90% of the world lives in poverty yet I am rich. Some people are just born better.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.06 05:42:00 - [64] If you want people to go to 0.0, do the following Make all ships, especially battleships, allign 10x faster (1.5 second for battleships, 0 sec for cruisers below) Make all ships have 100 times more sensor strength Make a module which counters interdiction bubbles hopefully taking out a middle slot. Boom. everyone will be in 0.0. no problem.
Echo Mae Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.04.06 05:56:00 - [65] Edited by: Echo Mae on 06/04/2011 05:58:46 I propose an even better solution. Remove Null-Sec and Low-Sec and make all of EVE except WH's High Sec space. Then the High-Sec dwellers can expand to fill all of EVE and CCP will gain even MORE subscribers. Those who want lawless pew pew can climb into a WH. Get rid of moon goo all together and replace it with something less idiotic. This would be the best solution all the way around as the majority of EVE players live where? That's right. High-Sec. This is long overdue to happen. Of course, this will cause a lot of the low/null sec dwellers to emorage quit, but they will be quickly replaced and won't be any great loss to EVE anyway. ----- ** ----- I thought I was real but found out I was just a forum troll
Flex Carter Caldari Independant Mining Association	Posted - 2011.04.06 07:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Echo Mae Edited by: Echo Mae on 06/04/2011 05:58:46 I propose an even better solution. Remove Null-Sec and Low-Sec and make all of EVE except WH's High Sec space. Then the High-Sec dwellers can expand to fill all of EVE and CCP will gain even MORE subscribers. Those who want lawless pew pew can climb into a WH. Get rid of moon goo all together and replace it with something less idiotic. This would be the best solution all the way around as the majority of EVE players live where? That's right. High-Sec. This is long overdue to happen. Of course, this will cause a lot of the low/null sec dwellers to emorage quit, but they will be quickly replaced and won't be any great loss to EVE anyway. Puff-Puff give, Echo, Puff-Puff give... Your jacking up the rotation...
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:35:00 - [67] Originally by: AristotleOnassis If you want people to go to 0.0, do the following Make all ships, especially battleships, allign 10x faster (1.5 second for battleships, 0 sec for cruisers below) Make all ships have 100 times more sensor strength Make a module which counters interdiction bubbles hopefully taking out a middle slot. Boom. everyone will be in 0.0. no problem. Or just take out the PvP check points.
Mr Elemental	Posted - 2011.04.06 10:26:00 - [68] Edited by: Mr Elemental on 06/04/2011 10:28:38 Edited by: Mr Elemental on 06/04/2011 10:28:15 Edited by: Mr Elemental on 06/04/2011 10:26:23 Edited by: Mr Elemental on 06/04/2011 10:26:13 There are 3 possibilities how to get people in to null. 1. Forcing them, by implementing new rules / moving missions etc. 2. Luring them, by adding better rewards, security etc. 3. Helping them If you will try to force them in to null, many people will leave the game. A lot of high-sec gamers, don't like to be blown up, don't like scanning for other players every few seconds, don't like big alliances and politics involved or blowing up other players. Everyone knows, that you can make more isk in 0.0. but people are still staying in high-sec. Strange huh? Moving missions in low sec and 0.0. will maybe increase number of players in those regions a bit for sure. But i'm absolutely certain that more people will leave the game. High-sec carebears are nulls best customers. They usually can afford rare, expensive gear, because they know, they will not lose it in next 20 min. If you decrease carebear population by forcing them in to 0.0. you will also lose a lot of profit. CCP does not need to do anything about so called "problem". Everything could be done by players and alliances, if they wanted more players in low sec and null. The problem is, most of high sec players don't know how to play in 0.0. They are scared because they are thinking that a big bad wolf is waiting them in next system, to take their precious ship they worked so hard to get. If you want more people in 0.0. make newbie corps that are part of large alliances and will teach new and old players how to survive in null. Open your borders and protect newbies at least to some degree. Bottleneck systems that are camped 24/7 don't bring any new players to null. Treat them nicer, if carebears think, that null sec people are just a bunch of scamming, bloodthirsty, immature ******s, why would they even try to interact with that lot.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:38:00 - [69] Originally by: Herrring Im in npc 0.0 and im making more than l4 missions.. l2 probe. meh,... i think he is refering to the upcoming changes to null which will result in most null systems being worth about the same as level 3 missions.
TacoTaco Burrito	Posted - 2011.04.07 01:10:00 - [70] It sucks that mining in 0.0 is totally complete crap :( There really should be like super high yield lowend minerals and more ark and stuff. Why even live in 0.0 when you can make nearly as much in highsec in total safety running L4s with a pimped out marauder. I personally believe that CCP shouldn't mess with the income levels in highsec. What they need to do is make 0.0 worth it to lure out some of the empire dwellers. Risk = Reward, etc!
Zantris	Posted - 2011.04.07 01:29:00 - [71] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Herrring Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. There are lv4 missions in null already. You misunderstand. Level 4 missions will only be available in null. Level 2&3 missions will only be available in lowsec and level 1 missions will be the only thing you can run in the safety of highsec. It might sound scary but it's for the best. Trust us. That would be an outstanding way to destroy a large portion of CCPs income base. I'm sure they'll jump all over that.
TacoTaco Burrito	Posted - 2011.04.07 01:40:00 - [72] I totally agree. In a game where you can lose everything, its nice to have a place where you can fall back to. However 0.0 really isn't much better since people can power through L4s way faster then you can run missions in 0.0. With the crappy anomaly changes, the only reason to go out into 0.0 is for the moons. However the member base of a 0.0 alliance only gets isk from the reimbursements and the rest of it is used to pay for sov bills and to invent t2 ships to lose.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.07 03:39:00 - [73] Ya'll minmatars postin' in a goon thread. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Jimmy Cliff Dawning Industries	Posted - 2011.04.07 07:31:00 - [74] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. Yes, this really helped them in the Sanctums-matter... just weeks after booting IT from Fountain, CCP 'discover' that Sanctums are faulty in Fountain and decide to correct it as an urgent patch. This 'error' has been since the introduction of sanctums, but noo... only CCP-employees can benefit from this.
Florestan Bronstein Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.04.07 09:07:00 - [75] Originally by: TacoTaco Burrito However 0.0 really isn't much better since people can power through L4s way faster then you can run missions in 0.0. Running a mission in 0.0 takes the same time as running a mission in high-sec - yet mission rewards, LP payout and ISK/LP are usually much higher.
TacoTaco Burrito	Posted - 2011.04.07 09:55:00 - [76] Not to mention the chances of you getting probed out and murdered or the chances of you jumping into the target system and ending up in a dictor bubble :P Plus since you can fit out a mission ship in empire with faction modules, it makes running them in empire even more efficient. In 0.0 you need to use a regular t2 fit ship which means that you won't be able to do the missions nearly as fast. In the end you make more isk doing them in empire, especially when you consider the cost of losing ships.
Spurty Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp	Posted - 2011.04.07 10:22:00 - [77] You know, if you live out in 0.0, the bar is supposed to go up a little. Hoppit!
Gillaboo	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:32:00 - [78] Back in the day, players from 0.0 itched that "RISK must balance REWARD". Suck it up kiddies... go take some RISKs, to get those REWARDS, fighting for the best Null Sec space to farm your Sanctums and Havens. You got what you itched for. Sweet and juicy Nullbear tears... freshly squeezed... oh, sooooooo ironically sweet.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:49:00 - [79] Originally by: Spurty You know, if you live out in 0.0, the bar is supposed to go up a little. how about having lost everything you owned along with your POS? or being on constant CTA status for months on end... there is definitely a price for living in null. and when things are slow i ought to be able to make some ISK without having to go to hisec. and even during these times there's a constant risk of getting snagged in a bubble, being hot-dropped or baited into a trap... which happen nearly everyday in my neck of the woods. all things that just don't happen in hisec.
DjDangle The Fraternal Association of Killer Squibs Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:00:00 - [80] Originally by: Steve Thomas meh your not in 0.0 to run missions, your in 0.0 to moonmine. everything else In 0.0 is there to make moonmining posible Still after all this time. qft (Oh the memories........)
Nerodia Crotalus	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:14:00 - [81] I'm sure this is going to cause more flaming, because NO one on these forms takes constructive criticism very well... I used to live in Null-Sec until just recently. In fact, I was only a few JB's away from Goon space myself. I'm now living back in empire. Why? Too risky? Nope - in fact I only lost one ship the entire time I was in null. Too hard? Not really - ran a lot of plexes, did some profitable mining - all in all did pretty well for myself. So why? Well, 'cause the attitude in Null-Sec SUCKS. Every Corp and Alliance "HC" member seems to think that they're the CEO of some world-renown business. I kept getting eve-mails like, "Every one do such-and-such a thing now or we'll kick you out!" and "If you're not at this place at this time, you'd better give us a good reason why not!!" and - my personal favorite - "If you're not participating in this op, you have to log off of EVE!!" Take the Ladie Scarlet posts from the beginning of this thread as example: that superiority-complex that makes these people think that a video game actually makes them worth a crapà As a grown man with a career, a wife, house, several cars, etc, it drove me absolutely crazy having a bunch of kids trying to boss me around - in a video game of all places! So I left null-sec. I'm back in empire where I can do what I want, when I want. And where you might think IÆm making less money, IÆm actually making MORE because IÆm having more fun playing, and can work for my OWN goals instead of some self-absorbed CEO. My point really is that youÆre not going to drive more people to 0.0 by making it more profitable, or even by making high-sec LESS profitable. Until you change the attitude of the players in 0.0 (fat chance, really) then people just wonÆt be drawn into that atmosphere. And though I fear making a post run this long, I do actually have suggestions that will improve the ômoodö of null-sec: Running corps and alliances in 0.0 is expensive. Alliances are charged massive amounts of ISK to hold sovereignty, to put up and maintain POSÆs, to have Jump Bridges, etc. The ISK ôsinksö in 0.0 are simply ludicrous, and I think that because of it, thereÆs such stress on these 0.0 corps to generate income just to pay the bills when frankly, the entire mechanic makes no sense. ItÆs also why smaller groups canÆt get started in 0.0 û they simply canÆt afford it. So in short, make null-sec CHEAPER for these folks, and maybe theyÆll feel less inclined to be such douchebags all the time. Improve the attitude in null, and youÆll get more players. Heck, even IÆd go backà That is all.
Maria Yi	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:29:00 - [82] Solution: remove the instant-safeness factor boundaries between high, low and null. High isn't null but safer, it's like a different game, as is low. Most players prefer the way high sec works and nerfing it so it's not worth staying there will make people quit, you also need high sec to be worth it as it's a stepping stone from character creation to low sec and beyond as you need the cash reserves to fund your inevitable pvp in non-safe space. It also is where most trade happens. So why not make the transition from 1.0 to 0.0 a bit smoother? Right now there is 1.0 -> 0.5 which is basically CONCORDOKKENED after 10 seconds to CONCORDOKKENED after 30 seconds or something like that. Then low sec where you sort of worry about gate guns followed by null where you are basically going to die soon if you travel a lot. The problem is CONCORD being epic win ships, it's a cheap game mechanic that doesn't make sense RP wise at all and also keeps most people in high sec as they are completely safe unless they do something dumb like get can flipped or fly a ******edly pimped out ship. What if you could at least have a chance of escape from CONCORD if you did something naughty and the higher the security, the more powerful CONCORD becomes? So 1.0 can retain it's super awesome instapopping police force to protect noob players (you would then want to definitely only have 1.0 areas have poor isk making capability) and as you go to 0.9 and onwards the police becomes less and less powerful so by the time you get to "low" sec it actually is low security and not "welcome to a gimped version of nullsec with no bubbles or super caps or anything remotely lucrative". So if you see someone juicy, ratting in a belt you attack with the knowledge that a single concord npc frigate with no I-win button death ray would come and engage you, which you could probably fend off long enough to kill your prey, or if you were trying to gate camp you would actually be impeded by the guns AND maybe a concord cruiser or two that you could a) shoot back at and b) not get served by. If you went to probe out a mission runner CONCORD wouldn't stray from the gates or veer away from rescuing people in belts so it would be as it is now, same goes for moons so that would remain as it is now. So in essence, spread CONCORD to 0.4 like this and gates only in 0.3 maybe and nerf them hard and incrementally from 0.9 downwards, only leaving them as god-mode in newbie systems. You'd have more people dripping into 0.4 and 0.3 to rat,mine and travel with less fear of gate camps and with the slight comfort that a concord fail-frigate might help them out a bit vs a pirate that wanted to gank them mining or ratting. You'd also have the possibility for piracy in 0.5 or 0.6+ depending on the amount of power you could muster up outside of the lol-suicide-gank mechanic. I think will do a few things: Make people get used to the idea of not being safe a lot sooner when they see a roaming BS gang in 0.5 picking off ice miners before trying to run from CONCORD and not being guaranteed to die in the process. Make people more inclined to go to 0.4 and 0.3 and get their feet wet dealing with pirates with the slight cushion of a weak police presence. Provide a scale of security that doesn't make 0.5 very very very safe then 0.4 being very very very unsafe so you can afford to move level 4s to 0.4 as it's not that much worse than 0.5. Basically, if you can't get people to leave high sec for low and null sec then make "low-high sec" a bit more like low sec and "high-low sec" a bit more like high sec and then you can move some of the rewards around without unfairly penalising those who prefer relative safety. Fudge the boundaries and more people will cross them. Oh wait lol I'm postin in a troll thread.
Cynner Nashington	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Neamus Risk vs reward. There needs to be some additional reward for going out there otherwise the high-bears will breed out of control and we'll have an ecological disaster on our hands. Eve without a vibrant nullsec would be pretty dull tbh, I know its a minority sport, but it also produces the most interesting stories in game and acts as a draw for new players. There is not sufficient reward to lure carebears with no interest in PVP out of high sec. L5s pay way more than L4s, but they are ignored as too risky. I see no reason to think that L4s moving to low sec or null sec would get carebears out of high sec. More likely, if you move L4s to low sec or null, lots of carebears quit, the amont of ISK entering the game drops drastically, prices fall drastically, carebears that do not quit mine, buld ships and self destruct for insurance. Pirates and other griefers come up with new suggestions on how to force carebears into being their victims. You can not force carebears to come out of high sec to be your victims. All you can do is force them out of game or into other means of making ISK in high sec. As for making the worst of 0.0 pay better than L4s, more people in null simply means more people under the control of the 2 mega coalitions, meaning even larger fleet fights that the servers can't handle. Besides, are those null that pay better than L4s really better than L4s if you have to pay 80% of your income as rent to one of the mega coalitions, that is, unless they are being botted 23.5/7. Can CCP keep rewards ahead of rising rents?
Danika Princip Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:31:00 - [84] Originally by: Nerodia Crotalus I'm sure this is going to cause more flaming, because NO one on these forms takes constructive criticism very well... I used to live in Null-Sec until just recently. In fact, I was only a few JB's away from Goon space myself. I'm now living back in empire. Why? Too risky? Nope - in fact I only lost one ship the entire time I was in null. Too hard? Not really - ran a lot of plexes, did some profitable mining - all in all did pretty well for myself. So why? Well, 'cause the attitude in Null-Sec SUCKS. Every Corp and Alliance "HC" member seems to think that they're the CEO of some world-renown business. I kept getting eve-mails like, "Every one do such-and-such a thing now or we'll kick you out!" and "If you're not at this place at this time, you'd better give us a good reason why not!!" and - my personal favorite - "If you're not participating in this op, you have to log off of EVE!!" Take the Ladie Scarlet posts from the beginning of this thread as example: that superiority-complex that makes these people think that a video game actually makes them worth a crapà As a grown man with a career, a wife, house, several cars, etc, it drove me absolutely crazy having a bunch of kids trying to boss me around - in a video game of all places! So I left null-sec. I'm back in empire where I can do what I want, when I want. And where you might think IÆm making less money, IÆm actually making MORE because IÆm having more fun playing, and can work for my OWN goals instead of some self-absorbed CEO. My point really is that youÆre not going to drive more people to 0.0 by making it more profitable, or even by making high-sec LESS profitable. Until you change the attitude of the players in 0.0 (fat chance, really) then people just wonÆt be drawn into that atmosphere. And though I fear making a post run this long, I do actually have suggestions that will improve the ômoodö of null-sec: Running corps and alliances in 0.0 is expensive. Alliances are charged massive amounts of ISK to hold sovereignty, to put up and maintain POSÆs, to have Jump Bridges, etc. The ISK ôsinksö in 0.0 are simply ludicrous, and I think that because of it, thereÆs such stress on these 0.0 corps to generate income just to pay the bills when frankly, the entire mechanic makes no sense. ItÆs also why smaller groups canÆt get started in 0.0 û they simply canÆt afford it. So in short, make null-sec CHEAPER for these folks, and maybe theyÆll feel less inclined to be such douchebags all the time. Improve the attitude in null, and youÆll get more players. Heck, even IÆd go backà That is all. Were you in OWN by any chance? I too live right next to goon space, and I have never experienced any of the things you're whining about. Your one ****ty alliance is not representative of the whole of nullsec.
Cynner Nashington	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Maria Yi What if you could at least have a chance of escape from CONCORD if you did something naughty and the higher the security, the more powerful CONCORD becomes? So 1.0 can retain it's super awesome instapopping police force to protect noob players (you would then want to definitely only have 1.0 areas have poor isk making capability) and as you go to 0.9 and onwards the police becomes less and less powerful so by the time you get to "low" sec it actually is low security and not "welcome to a gimped version of nullsec with no bubbles or super caps or anything remotely lucrative". All the carebears quit, massive price deflation, and griefers still complaining that there is no one that wants to be thier victim. Quit trying to figure out how to force carebears into a choice of quit or be a greifer's victim, and just focus on getting into fights with the people that are interested in PVP. STOP thinking of carebears as potential targets. Most will quit long before they are forced into being victims. If you are a griefer, IGNORE the existance of carebears. Or better, think of them as alts of people that grind ISK so their PVP alts can come fight you. Those high sec toons are NOT potential victims if only the game mechanic would allow it. They are carebears that will do whatever it takes to not be the victim of your lols.
Cynner Nashington	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:55:00 - [86] Originally by: Mr Elemental CCP does not need to do anything about so called "problem". Everything could be done by players and alliances, if they wanted more players in low sec and null. The problem is, most of high sec players don't know how to play in 0.0. They are scared because they are thinking that a big bad wolf is waiting them in next system, to take their precious ship they worked so hard to get. If you want more people in 0.0. make newbie corps that are part of large alliances and will teach new and old players how to survive in null. Open your borders and protect newbies at least to some degree. Bottleneck systems that are camped 24/7 don't bring any new players to null. Treat them nice, if carebears think, that null sec people are just a bunch of scamming, bloodthirsty, immature ******s, why would they even try to interact with that lot. Wow... I think you TOTALLY miss the point of wanting to force more carebears out of high sec. It isn't to get them into alliances. The alliances already have more than enough people, you just can't kill them easily because they will blob you. It isn't to teach them to survive in low or null sec. There are already plenty of people that know how to survive in null sec, flying interceptors or cloakies, spamming dscan, or gate camping in large rr BS fleets with a cyno alt nearby with cap ships on standby to hot drop. The people that live in low and null see all those high sec carebears as easy targets that fly around solo in PVE fit battleships. Oh, how great life would be if we could just shoot them without concord and the sec status hits instead of hainvg to fight people in big corp/alliances or people that know how to survive in low/null.
Cynner Nashington	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:02:00 - [87] Originally by: Echo Mae I propose an even better solution. Remove Null-Sec and Low-Sec and make all of EVE except WH's High Sec space. Then the High-Sec dwellers can expand to fill all of EVE and CCP will gain even MORE subscribers. Fail false dichotomy. Your argument seems to be, if it can't all be low/null sec, then it must all be high sec. Why not leave things as they are? Those interested in PVP have plenty of space and those that have no interest in PVP have their space. Oh, that's right... the griefers don't have enough clueless victims as is. Well, changes to game mechanics won't change that.
Nerodia Crotalus	Posted - 2011.04.07 15:18:00 - [88] Originally by: Cynner Nashington Wow... I think you TOTALLY miss the point of wanting to force more carebears out of high sec. It isn't to get them into alliances. The alliances already have more than enough people, you just can't kill them easily because they will blob you. It isn't to teach them to survive in low or null sec. There are already plenty of people that know how to survive in null sec, flying interceptors or cloakies, spamming dscan, or gate camping in large rr BS fleets with a cyno alt nearby with cap ships on standby to hot drop. The people that live in low and null see all those high sec carebears as easy targets that fly around solo in PVE fit battleships. Oh, how great life would be if we could just shoot them without concord and the sec status hits instead of hainvg to fight people in big corp/alliances or people that know how to survive in low/null. So youÆre saying that low and null sec pilots prefer easy targets? Why canÆt you fight other people in null-sec û the proverbial ôpick on someone your own sizeö theory? Is that why Hulkageddon is so popular? (Honestly that was always my theoryà) Why do you have any reason to think whatsoever that youÆre going to ôforceö players to change their gaming style û or even their personality in general û and do something that YOU want them to do? I think itÆs both funny and ironic that the people who have the ambition to go to null sec, join big alliances and accept the ôriskö of zero-security space are then so eager to AVOID all that risk by trying to demand that easy targets get lured into that same space. The truth is, it wonÆt work. You might get some older players who have amassed enough skill points and assets to say, ôOh fine IÆll give 0.0 a tryàö But new players who try the game will quickly get discouraged with how much harder YOU want it to be to for them to make money. So fight your wars, run your plexes and STFU about it. If you canÆt survive against your fellow 0.0 peers, then thatÆs your problem û not the 80% of players who decide to stay in high-sec.
Florentis	Posted - 2011.04.10 02:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Nerodia Crotalus I'm sure this is going to cause more flaming, because NO one on these forms takes constructive criticism very well... I used to live in Null-Sec until just recently. In fact, I was only a few JB's away from Goon space myself. I'm now living back in empire. Why? Too risky? Nope - in fact I only lost one ship the entire time I was in null. Too hard? Not really - ran a lot of plexes, did some profitable mining - all in all did pretty well for myself. So why? Well, 'cause the attitude in Null-Sec SUCKS. Every Corp and Alliance "HC" member seems to think that they're the CEO of some world-renown business. I kept getting eve-mails like, "Every one do such-and-such a thing now or we'll kick you out!" and "If you're not at this place at this time, you'd better give us a good reason why not!!" and - my personal favorite - "If you're not participating in this op, you have to log off of EVE!!" Take the Ladie Scarlet posts from the beginning of this thread as example: that superiority-complex that makes these people think that a video game actually makes them worth a crapà As a grown man with a career, a wife, house, several cars, etc, it drove me absolutely crazy having a bunch of kids trying to boss me around - in a video game of all places! So I left null-sec. I'm back in empire where I can do what I want, when I want. And where you might think IÆm making less money, IÆm actually making MORE because IÆm having more fun playing, and can work for my OWN goals instead of some self-absorbed CEO. My point really is that youÆre not going to drive more people to 0.0 by making it more profitable, or even by making high-sec LESS profitable. Until you change the attitude of the players in 0.0 (fat chance, really) then people just wonÆt be drawn into that atmosphere. And though I fear making a post run this long, I do actually have suggestions that will improve the ômoodö of null-sec: Running corps and alliances in 0.0 is expensive. Alliances are charged massive amounts of ISK to hold sovereignty, to put up and maintain POSÆs, to have Jump Bridges, etc. The ISK ôsinksö in 0.0 are simply ludicrous, and I think that because of it, thereÆs such stress on these 0.0 corps to generate income just to pay the bills when frankly, the entire mechanic makes no sense. ItÆs also why smaller groups canÆt get started in 0.0 û they simply canÆt afford it. So in short, make null-sec CHEAPER for these folks, and maybe theyÆll feel less inclined to be such douchebags all the time. Improve the attitude in null, and youÆll get more players. Heck, even IÆd go backà That is all. Like++
Irani Firecam Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.04.10 02:24:00 - [90] Originally by: Nerodia Crotalus I'm sure this is going to cause more flaming, because NO one on these forms takes constructive criticism very well... I used to live in Null-Sec until just recently. In fact, I was only a few JB's away from Goon space myself. I'm now living back in empire. Why? Too risky? Nope - in fact I only lost one ship the entire time I was in null. Too hard? Not really - ran a lot of plexes, did some profitable mining - all in all did pretty well for myself. So why? Well, 'cause the attitude in Null-Sec SUCKS. Every Corp and Alliance "HC" member seems to think that they're the CEO of some world-renown business. I kept getting eve-mails like, "Every one do such-and-such a thing now or we'll kick you out!" and "If you're not at this place at this time, you'd better give us a good reason why not!!" and - my personal favorite - "If you're not participating in this op, you have to log off of EVE!!" Take the Ladie Scarlet posts from the beginning of this thread as example: that superiority-complex that makes these people think that a video game actually makes them worth a crapà As a grown man with a career, a wife, house, several cars, etc, it drove me absolutely crazy having a bunch of kids trying to boss me around - in a video game of all places! So I left null-sec. I'm back in empire where I can do what I want, when I want. And where you might think IÆm making less money, IÆm actually making MORE because IÆm having more fun playing, and can work for my OWN goals instead of some self-absorbed CEO. My point really is that youÆre not going to drive more people to 0.0 by making it more profitable, or even by making high-sec LESS profitable. Until you change the attitude of the players in 0.0 (fat chance, really) then people just wonÆt be drawn into that atmosphere. And though I fear making a post run this long, I do actually have suggestions that will improve the ômoodö of null-sec: Running corps and alliances in 0.0 is expensive. Alliances are charged massive amounts of ISK to hold sovereignty, to put up and maintain POSÆs, to have Jump Bridges, etc. The ISK ôsinksö in 0.0 are simply ludicrous, and I think that because of it, thereÆs such stress on these 0.0 corps to generate income just to pay the bills when frankly, the entire mechanic makes no sense. ItÆs also why smaller groups canÆt get started in 0.0 û they simply canÆt afford it. So in short, make null-sec CHEAPER for these folks, and maybe theyÆll feel less inclined to be such douchebags all the time. Improve the attitude in null, and youÆll get more players. Heck, even IÆd go backà That is all. I think you did your previous alliance a favour by leaving, your post sounds like you're just one of those annoying leechers that are only interested in lining their own pockets instead of contributing to the greater good of the alliance. --- Click here for my high resolution renders.
Elyssa MacLeod	Posted - 2011.04.10 02:30:00 - [91] lol @ full Goon CSM. Thats as good an idea as a full BoB CSM would have been back in the day The idea of "the lunatics running the asylum" comes to mind ---------------------------- fail leads to anger anger leads to hate hate leads to the dark side of MMOs
Jojo Jackson Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.10 03:18:00 - [92] Learn it: some people will NEVER go to low-, toilet-sec. If you remove L4 from highsec they will either do something else or just stop to play EvE. Second one is more likely and you will see user counts drob by at last 50%. In addition, where do you want to run all your ****ing bots then @toilet-sec Allys?
Aldo Bridger	Posted - 2011.04.10 05:37:00 - [93] Edited by: Aldo Bridger on 10/04/2011 05:38:29 Originally by: Nerodia Crotalus I'm sure this is going to cause more flaming... Definitely understand those sentiments. I played for years in empire hearing these stories from my mates in sov null. I heard the politics of power in intimate details and frequently watched ops they participated in. Now that i'm back and taking my new character to 0.0 himself i'm focused primarily on npc nullsec for those very reasons. The circular logic that drives a lot of people into big alliance politics is really stunning. I think at some point they go into sov. thinking the big income and perks (ship replacement, capital assitance, jump networks) are required to get good fights and stay active in pvp. Unfortunately they realize all too late that these things come at a tremendous cost. In NPC space most corps are not well respected and they do have to work harder grinding than the provided for sov. pilots, but they have a level of enjoyment and autonomy that you rarely see in a sov. group. When they roam they don't NEED jump bridge networks because they fight other locals or adjacent regions and when things go completely south and they loose control of space, their assets are in NPC stations so the loss is bearable and it doesn't require weeks of evac. operations and political manuvering. Personally, I see the best of EVE in NPC null and it makes me sad to see so few players voicing this. Sov. politicians seem so self-interested and so entrenched they have a hard time thinking about mechanics outside of the ugly box that's developed over time. Case in point, most of the CSM members now are very defensive of jump capabilites, bridges, and their far-reaching logistical power. Most will concede on other points like supercap bloat or technitium, but on the whole they will not let go of the status quo. They are in-fact dedicated to the status quo despite the fact that it is flawed just because a real departure from that makes them largely irrelavent or at best diminishes their influence. The commander of a 20 man gang that is very successful is not nearly as prestigious a position as FC of a 2000+ fleet. Wars for local systems don't generate nearly as much :smug: as ones for entire regions and the amount of metagaming that goes into these huge efforts gets them far more interested than the game itself. In an EVE without massive moon profits, sov bills, and bridges to cover half the map in mintues there is no perk for being situated in the middle of a giant coalition of blues and there is a hell of a lot more reason to find good fights locally that won't draw the numbers necessary to bring a node to it's knees. Not sure where my rant goes from this point so i'll leave it at that.
Atra Hasis	Posted - 2011.04.10 05:49:00 - [94] Not everyone wants to deal with the politics of Null sec. All the more power to them I say, they play where they want, they do what they want. That's EVE.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.04.10 06:11:00 - [95] Quote: Want to get people out to 0.0? Make even the worst 0.0 space better then running L4 missions. Not at all. You should never have granted certainties in EvE. 0.0 should have bigger potential of growth than L4 but the vast majority of idiots infecting the world should never have granted success. They have to fail and be commanded by someone smarter than them who sucks them dry and reaps the benefits, like it has always been. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Gravemind GER Caldari Community for Justice Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.04.10 06:23:00 - [96] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Goons are certainly not known to be trolls. Trust us, these crowdsourcing ideals will lead to innovative vertical technologies that will help CCP harness mission-critical users, enable scalable e-markets, synergize efficient infrastructures and orchestrate end-to-end content. As you can see we've put a lot of thought into this plan and we feel it's what the game needs at the current time. your ugly face says it all, you are trying to troll but fail miserably. U SIR ARE A SPAI!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.04.10 06:35:00 - [97] I agree that in general 0.0 should be better than highsec, but just that won't make people run out there. someone suggested moving moongoo stuff outside the pos shields, I think that would be pretty cool, go in attack and then steal their moon goo! also things like sov upgrade disruption attacks. little things like that that encourage people to go in and say **** you to their neighbors. beats the hell out of roaming around just to see everyone dock up, or afk cloaking for long enough that they get courageous enough to actually undock with you in system.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:02:00 - [98] Originally by: Jojo Jackson Learn it: some people will NEVER go to low-, toilet-sec. If you remove L4 from highsec they will either do something else or just stop to play EvE. Second one is more likely and you will see user counts drob by at last 50%. In addition, where do you want to run all your ****ing bots then @toilet-sec Allys? I'm sure it will be a little scary at first but once people realize that the only missions they will be able to run in the safety of highsec are level ones they will make the move to lowsec for leve two and three missions and eventually into nullsec where they belong for level four and five missions.
Aldo Bridger	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:09:00 - [99] Edited by: Aldo Bridger on 10/04/2011 08:11:18 Edited by: Aldo Bridger on 10/04/2011 08:10:50 Originally by: Atra Hasis Not everyone wants to deal with the politics of Null sec. All the more power to them I say, they play where they want, they do what they want. That's EVE. The problem everyone (repeatedly) runs into though, is that sov. politics and problems tend to effect the entire game. Examples: r64 moons bring sov to lowsec and supercap bloat bring hotdrops into lowsec with increasing frequency. Also: lowsec mission running is not that dangerous, please my fellow carebears, stop acting like idiots. Scout, use your map, make bookmarks, and use a little common sense.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:25:00 - [100] Originally by: Aldo Bridger Edited by: Aldo Bridger on 10/04/2011 08:11:18 Edited by: Aldo Bridger on 10/04/2011 08:10:50 Originally by: Atra Hasis Not everyone wants to deal with the politics of Null sec. All the more power to them I say, they play where they want, they do what they want. That's EVE. The problem everyone (repeatedly) runs into though, is that sov. politics and problems tend to effect the entire game. Examples: r64 moons bring sov to lowsec and supercap bloat bring hotdrops into lowsec with increasing frequency. Also: lowsec mission running is not that dangerous, please my fellow carebears, stop acting like idiots. Scout, use your map, make bookmarks, and use a little common sense. I stopped caring for L4 low sec missions when they made so easy to probe ships inside pockets. I am vastly going to quit EvE before I spend my days getting carpal syndrome with the absurdly ret*rded scan button spam. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:42:00 - [101] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Lucia Sarain Maybe you should run level 4 missions .. in 0.0 . Now that Goons own the CSM this is in the works. Level 4&5 missions in null, level 2&3 missions in lowsec and level 1 missions in highsec. You'll thank us later. The only way this will work is if the goons turn off all their bots.. owait. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
Aldo Bridger	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:45:00 - [102] Edited by: Aldo Bridger on 10/04/2011 09:41:02 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I stopped caring for L4 low sec missions when they made so easy to probe ships inside pockets. I am vastly going to quit EvE before I spend my days getting carpal syndrome with the absurdly ret*rded scan button spam. Unprobable fits aren't very difficult, but even ignoring that approach the biggest safeguards are simple tactics anyone who's lived in low or null for a few months will have picked up on. The biggest problem is that CCP insisted on creating silly ships like marauders that simply have no place outside of completely safe highsec or deep sov. anomalies. The playerbase in empire has been so conditioned to fly expensive "efficient," mission boats they've all but forgotten that you can get the job done at 90% efficientcy with cheaper and more agile hulls. In short, introducing more risk doesn't break the equation. It just forces players to reconsider how they fit and fly. Caveat: The goon is trolling and I doubt 4's leave highsec. I also agree with you the scanning changes have borked things not limited to, but including finding players in pockets too easily... But, at the end of the day lowsec out of the FW pipes is less dangerous than undocking at motsu in a tengu or autopiloting a freighter from jita to amarr. Calculated risks aren't the end of the world for us carebears and I for one would love to see afk mission runners go the way of the bots and die.
Deb Dukar Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.10 11:06:00 - [103] cant wait to see having 2 big aliances like the asian guys have soon cause noone will want that worthless crapspace and every1 is forced to join big allies to get at least some havens. seriously ... ** you. im outa 0.0 and do some low pirating to ** up some carebaers ------------------------- horray for typos
Lump Hammer	Posted - 2011.04.10 11:19:00 - [104] Edited by: Lump Hammer on 10/04/2011 11:19:59 Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Originally by: cyndrogen LOL do you know what happens to the ecosystem when you force everyone to quit? You WIN eve! Game over! Confirming that our ultimate goal is to win EVE and we do not feel the need to look past that. So what happens if you win... do we start all over again and go back mining tritanium in frigates as in 2003? (edit = typo)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.04.10 12:00:00 - [105] Quote: Unprobable fits aren't very difficult, I don't like to cheat, being uncatchable in a PvP game is the apex of lameness. Instead of circumventing the stupid game mechanics with a T3, I'd prefer CCP would implement low sec missioning mechanics better, ie actually taking in consideration that you can't just copy the same missions off hi sec in there. In hi sec it's ok to warp in a 1000000000 NPCs + web towers + scramble frigates blob, in low sec the missions should at least let people go in for 20-30 km (so they see the HAC getting in). But most of all, it's the need to perma-spam the scan button. It woes, I am not going to do it, CCP can suck my toes about it. Quote: The playerbase in empire has been so conditioned to fly expensive "efficient," mission boats they've all but forgotten that you can get the job done at 90% efficientcy with cheaper and more agile hulls. It's not just a 10% difference. With a T2 fitted ship my L4 alt can't even fit all the needed damage mods etc, even with implants and I'd make 20M-25M per hour. With faction fit you do 40-45M per hour easy before you even switch to a marauder. So, the difference is very sensible, it's why people "waste" 3-4B on hi sec ships. The LP spent to fit them trickles in doing missions anyway and you pay a 3B ship back in 2 months of casual playing. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Anddeh McNab Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 12:08:00 - [106] Originally by: Stephen Mctowelieee Want to get people out to 0.0? Allow highsec carebears better protection, and put the hammer down on scammers. This, in part. I did spend a year or so living in null and it was alot of fun, I'd like to go back some day. However, there are also a number of other reasons that put people off. Stability. I moved around alot in null, variety is fun but having to pack your **** up and lug it halfway across the galaxy (sometimes at every short notice) every so often is a tribal pain in the ass. On the flip side, the constant warfare and flux is part of the appeal in leaving high-sec. Standings and hubs. Every mission runner will have terrible standings with the pirate factions. With (unsurprisingly) no empire faction agents in null-sec I'd have to spam alot of level 1 missions to get the standings needed for juicy level 4 missions (assuming I wanted to go down the mission running route). In addition, there are sarce agents in null sec anyway. 1000 carebears in one null-sec system running missions would be fun till the slaughter ended and I can guarantee they wouldn't come back. Market. Most mission runners will make money from selling items bought with LP and high-sec is where the buyers are. Selling null items would mean couriering the items back up to empire to sell them, another pain in the ass and a reason many nullbears have high-sec alts. Obviously missions aren't the only ways to make money in null sec. But the alternatives are anom sites (randomly spawning missions basically) and ratting (also fairly dull). If you really want to draw people out of high-sec then as Stephen Mctowelieee said you're going to need to give them more incentive that "Mo' money here.". There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.04.10 14:11:00 - [107] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Not at all. You should never have granted certainties in EvE. 0.0 should have bigger potential of growth than L4 but the vast majority of idiots infecting the world should never have granted success. They have to fail and be commanded by someone smarter than them who sucks them dry and reaps the benefits, like it has always been. eh, considering that prior to getting a system to military 5 and installing the $$ upgrades the systems were already exactly as you say - only potentially good, you;re are simply repeating what you;re trying to disagree with. tl;dr CCP has made it so that even after upgrades you get crap that isn't even as good as level 4 missions. so there is no potential in these spaces, which is what the OP is complaining about.

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