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Cruisers not agile enough?

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Luther Devos	Posted - 2005.02.05 23:51:00 - [1] Hey guys, just seems to be that they are not agile enough and why maybe they become BS bbq so fast So i test my frig, it warps in 1-2seconds max. My cruiser (maller, omen ect) warps in like 7seconds So then i get in my apoc and warp, it takes around 10-11sec. Why does it take 7x longer for a cruiser to warp then a frig but it only takes the bs like maybe 1.4x longer to warp then a cruiser. Example. I jump in to 0.0 in a frig, a cruiser there to gank frigs tries to lock me but he will fail b4 i warp Now, if there is an apoc or some other bs at the gate fit for ganking cruisers, the cruiser who jumps in will be bbq before he can warp -_-
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.02.05 23:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Luther Devos Hey guys, just seems to be that they are not agile enough and why maybe they become BS bbq so fast So i test my frig, it warps in 1-2seconds max. My cruiser (maller, omen ect) warps in like 7seconds So then i get in my apoc and warp, it takes around 10-11sec. Why does it take 7x longer for a cruiser to warp then a frig but it only takes the bs like maybe 1.4x longer to warp then a cruiser. Example. I jump in to 0.0 in a frig, a cruiser there to gank frigs tries to lock me but he will fail b4 i warp Now, if there is an apoc or some other bs at the gate fit for ganking cruisers, the cruiser who jumps in will be bbq before he can warp Its the same with MWD. Look how fast a frig goes compared to a cruiser, and look how fast a cruiser goes compared to a BS. Cruisers are much more like small BS than large frigs, while it should be the other way around.
Magorath	Posted - 2005.02.06 00:06:00 - [3] Or when you hit your MWD in a cruiser you becoem a flying bullseye. It doesnt relate the same way to frig - Cruiser.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.06 00:26:00 - [4] Agreed. It totally sucks for heavy assault cruisers as well. Doesn't really matter what your resists are, a ganking bs will work through you in no time. ________________________________________________________
Urfin	Posted - 2005.02.06 00:35:00 - [5] Edited by: Urfin on 06/02/2005 00:36:17 Well actually it feels like my assaults (both retri and zealot) are a nice compromise between speed defence and tank defence. They both go 600 m/s with ab, and while maneuvered properly, against a larger target, if they do get hit, they can tank that. Of course, the omniganking cruise kill them anyway :/ Normal cruisers however, can't have a high enough sum of speed/tank/damage to be useful, except specialized cases like scout stabbers and BBs. Well if you consider almost zero isk loss at ship destruction a useful thing - then yes, cruisers rock. Oh and not to mention mwd kinda kills any cruiser dead, so not much speed defence here either.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.02.06 00:45:00 - [6] I agree with the cruiser speed/agility issue. The thing is, cruisers are much less agile than frigates, and their speed is also considerably less. The speed/agility gap between bs and cruiser is small enough that it serves no real combat purpose. I would recommend increasing all cruiser agility and speed by 25%
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.06 00:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Face Lifter I agree with the cruiser speed/agility issue. The thing is, cruisers are much less agile than frigates, and their speed is also considerably less. The speed/agility gap between bs and cruiser is small enough that it serves no real combat purpose. I would recommend increasing all cruiser agility and speed by 25% I'm not sure about speed, i think that's fine. Agility makes a huge difference. If it was increased so cruisers can warp in around 4 seconds that might work well to avoid bbq sessions ________________________________________________________
Luther Devos	Posted - 2005.02.06 00:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Urfin Edited by: Urfin on 06/02/2005 00:36:17 Well actually it feels like my assaults (both retri and zealot) are a nice compromise between speed defence and tank defence. They both go 600 m/s with ab, and while maneuvered properly, against a larger target, if they do get hit, they can tank that. Of course, the omniganking cruise kill them anyway :/. Agility not velocity Speed is ok but takes to long to warp -_-
Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.06 05:43:00 - [9] They need both agility and velocity boosts. The stabber looks like a decent cruiser (never flown it, just looking at his base speed of 215m/s), but I'd never fly a cruiser for PvP, expandable or not. Some players claim they see some cruisers in battles, but I haven't seen any (excepted minmatars and blackbirds) in the north for ages, it's only frigs or BSs.
FoulBeast	Posted - 2005.02.06 05:51:00 - [10] Yes I agree, actaully cruisers need overhalls all around there not very usefull, I use to love flying them but there too slow, weak and underpowered now, I miss cruisers fitting cruise missiles :P *No rest for the wicked.* [Custom Made Sigs' - Eve mail FoulBeast]
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.06 07:26:00 - [11] Bah, cruisers rock.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.02.06 08:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Selim Bah, cruisers rock. Thats just because we are to cheap to fly decent ships --------------------------------------------------
Stormking	Posted - 2005.02.06 08:59:00 - [13] I agree that cruisers could use a little love (tho they are low on my personal list). The thing about Eve, and all games really, is that the mechanics favor extremes. BS = good, because they are very good in armor and weaponry. frigs = good, because they are very good in speed and hard-to-hit. There's just no place for cruisers, unless you use them for specialized things. I love them, personally, so I find ways to use them...middle-class armed haulers in fringe space, or for specialized npc combat. The fact that they are cheap to use is not enough to make them useful. I would LOVE to see cruisers get a lot of special, unique bonuses...for example, the vexor's drones bonus is cool, and the HACs are useful of course...
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.02.06 09:22:00 - [14] I remember when the BB was a decent ship. Then it became as heavy as Za Za Gabor's shoe box. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.06 09:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Selim Bah, cruisers rock. Maybe cruisers are ok...not really but consider 60mil HAC's please. Frig/Cruiser/BS in terms of agility \|--------------------------\|---------\| Cruiser agility is too close to bs, it needs to be like. \|-----------------\|------------------\| Yeah you love my leet graphs ________________________________________________________
Jaynen	Posted - 2005.02.06 12:24:00 - [16] So how much difference does it make having evasive manuevering trained for interceptors when piloting cruisers? Thats supposed to be 5% agility bonus per skill level right? so thats your 25% bonus in comparison to someone who hasnt trained it?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.02.06 12:30:00 - [17] Wasn't it nerfed down to 2% agility or something? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
darth solo	Posted - 2005.02.06 13:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Joshua Calvert I remember when the BB was a decent ship. Then it became as heavy as Za Za Gabor's shoe box. isk to usefullness... BB is the best ship in eve bar none. d solo.
KingsGambit	Posted - 2005.02.06 13:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Jaynen So how much difference does it make having evasive manuevering trained for interceptors when piloting cruisers? Thats supposed to be 5% agility bonus per skill level right? so thats your 25% bonus in comparison to someone who hasnt trained it? The thing with those skills, just as with most things in Eve, is they work with a Percentage modifier, so the higher the starting the number, the bigger the bonus...eg 10% of 10 is 1, of 100, it's 10. Frigates have higher agility to start with, Interceptors higher still, so the bonus they get on top of the alrady high starting figure is considerable...Inties entering warp are just unreal... Saying that, with Evasive 5 and Spaceship Command 5, all ships get a benefit. My indies turn and enter warp much faster, and keep more speed whilst turning too, as does my BS. The new Sigil I tried the other day does seem however much less agile than it's bigger (and yellower) brother...but with higher base speed and 2.5x warp multiplier, who cares? She's great in a straight line, and that's the main thing! HACs seem to be extraordinarily agile however compared to their standard counterparts. It would be nice to see them get a little tweak in this department but with the way things seem to be these days, standard cruisers and frigs which aren't exceptional at one thing, don't see much action. Apart from Thorax, BB & Caracal none really spring to mind as being particularly popular in PvP, but that has little to do with their agility. I suppose with BCs now having a role halfway between frigates and battleships, cruisers which have never really been halfway between them could get a slight nudge toward their smaller brothers for speed/agility without unbalancing the status quo. ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.02.06 16:20:00 - [20] Try the Blackbird, easily one of the lightest and most fragile of all cruisers, yet it turns like a pregnant dinosaur.
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2005.02.06 17:36:00 - [21] Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 06/02/2005 17:36:05 Yeah the first (or third in my case)time you lose your HAC because you take 6 months to get into warp you'll agree. They need an agility boost. I'd personally stick 25% extra armor and shields on them as well but that's just me.
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.06 19:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Selim Bah, cruisers rock. Maybe cruisers are ok...not really but consider 60mil HAC's please. Frig/Cruiser/BS in terms of agility \|--------------------------\|---------\| Cruiser agility is too close to bs, it needs to be like. \|-----------------\|------------------\| Yeah you love my leet graphs Wait you're saying HAC's aren't good enough?
Conmen	Posted - 2005.02.06 20:49:00 - [23] cruiser are great for raids maybe a slight boost in agility but not speed.. blackbird need a boost to agility though damn that thing turns like a brick WE ARE THE UBER LEET !TH CENTURY RP CORP !THCENTURY STYLE BABY. THANK YOU SHEEDZOR FOR THIS SIG GET PREPARED EVE TO BE WTFOWN
Damocles Ician	Posted - 2005.02.06 21:09:00 - [24] Yes, definitely. Faster and more agile cruisers - to me, it's a boost without as much fear of unbalancing as a skill bonus mod. -------------
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.06 21:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Selim Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Selim Bah, cruisers rock. Maybe cruisers are ok...not really but consider 60mil HAC's please. Frig/Cruiser/BS in terms of agility \|--------------------------\|---------\| Cruiser agility is too close to bs, it needs to be like. \|-----------------\|------------------\| Yeah you love my leet graphs Wait you're saying HAC's aren't good enough? Agility wise, yep. ________________________________________________________
Seto Mazzarotto	Posted - 2005.02.06 23:02:00 - [26] Agreed, give 'em more agility. Especially the BB. ----------- Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll.
Phades	Posted - 2005.02.07 00:43:00 - [27] Kinda off topic, but the more asymetrical a ship is, the less agile id expect it to be. Balance a funky shaped ship to go forward without losing heading, it will most likely only turn in one direction quickly, rather than being agile in general. Also i know this isnt a very feasable solution, but like everyone knows intertia stabilizers and nanofibers help with ship manuverability. On a ship like a cruiser i doubt anyone would attempt to fit a serious combat ship larger than a frig with either of those mods. Either the ship doesnt have enough slots or too much left over pg/cpu to fit something more "useful". Anything to help the middle class ships to avoid a instant or near instant trip to the pod would be good, but hopefully changes wont occur that will overbalance the close range ships of the cruiser class as a byproduct of altering the agility of the ships.
Luther Devos	Posted - 2005.02.07 02:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Phades Kinda off topic, but the more asymetrical a ship is, the less agile id expect it to be. Balance a funky shaped ship to go forward without losing heading, it will most likely only turn in one direction quickly, rather than being agile in general. Also i know this isnt a very feasable solution, but like everyone knows intertia stabilizers and nanofibers help with ship manuverability. On a ship like a cruiser i doubt anyone would attempt to fit a serious combat ship larger than a frig with either of those mods. Either the ship doesnt have enough slots or too much left over pg/cpu to fit something more "useful". Anything to help the middle class ships to avoid a instant or near instant trip to the pod would be good, but hopefully changes wont occur that will overbalance the close range ships of the cruiser class as a byproduct of altering the agility of the ships. It's a game Funny how guns are in line between the ship sizes like a medium gun does 2x the dmg of a small gun @ 2x the range and all that but agility does not have the same relationship Like meridus said with his graph thing they need to make cruiser agilty closer to frigates. -_-
Korsoma	Posted - 2005.02.07 02:44:00 - [29] Agreed, Cruisers could use a 25% base Agility increase.
Zal Benedict	Posted - 2005.02.07 02:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Phades Kinda off topic, but the more asymetrical a ship is, the less agile id expect it to be. Balance a funky shaped ship to go forward without losing heading, it will most likely only turn in one direction quickly, rather than being agile in general. Space = no atmospheric resistance = ship form irrelevant. I know I might get flamed/hunted/podded for saying this, but would any one contemplate making BSs less agile (and maye a lil slower) rather than the cruisers more so? Just a thought.... "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, as do monkeys (if they have a gun)."

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