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Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.04.06 07:25:00 -
[1]
Well the idea is simple, pilots can use ships, wrecks, asteroids, stations and other stuff as cover making combat tactically more interesting.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.06 08:42:00 -
[2]
Something like this would cause the server to **** itself.
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Somir Kal
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.06 09:13:00 -
[3]
This would be great for gameplay... in a single-player environment. Alas, that is not Eve. The server chokes when calculating the lifespan and flight path of missiles in large fleet battles, can you imagine the server calculating line-of-sight cover bonuses for ships at the same time? Players currently abuse missile launchers to deliberately cause lag, you know for a fact that they would set up defensive screens of anchored modules @ a POS and then put their blob behind it, giving the node an aneurism while they were at it.... and then they'd spam ungroupped missile launchers just to spite the server.
Great idea unfortunately the hardware and social realities regarding it make it a big no-no. No support here, sorry.
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Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.04.06 11:31:00 -
[4]
Hmm I was wondering why EVE would not be able to implement this while Black Prophecy already has done this, which works fine with 20+ ships in a small area.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.06 12:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Elayae Hmm I was wondering why EVE would not be able to implement this while Black Prophecy already has done this, which works fine with 20+ ships in a small area.
Because in eve there are often many more than 20 ships in a small area.
(Also Black Prophecy isn't made up of decade-old code stacked on top of decade-old code like EVE is)
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Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.04.06 12:54:00 -
[6]
Just pointing out that it is possible with 20+ ships in another MMO. For me immersion is breaking when I can fire through 2 asteroids or ships and hit the one behind or better yet shoot my lasers through a station.
I do not think a line of sight has to be calculated in the missile case, as an object in space is created it simply hits the object in front of another. As I see it only the collide mechanism between objects has to be rewritten, which can be difficult but not impossible, for there is one active now. If this collide mechanism contributes to a lot of lag it would be more difficult, but I don't think this is the case here. For how many collisions take place during a battle that contribute to lag, now that would be an interesting question regarding the implementation of cover.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.04.06 12:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Elayae Just pointing out that it is possible with 20+ ships in another MMO. For me immersion is breaking when I can fire through 2 asteroids or ships and hit the one behind or better yet shoot my lasers through a station.
I do not think a line of sight has to be calculated in the missile case, as an object in space is created it simply hits the object in front of another. As I see it only the collide mechanism between objects has to be rewritten, which can be difficult but not impossible, for there is one active now. If this collide mechanism contributes to a lot of lag it would be more difficult, but I don't think this is the case here. For how many collisions take place during a battle that contribute to lag, now that would be an interesting question regarding the implementation of cover.
20+ is one thing, but this is eve. 2000+ would be a more relevant number to quote in some battles, this would need to work well with at least 1000 though, and the server breaks around that level as it is. not supported.
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Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Danika Princip 20+ is one thing, but this is eve. 2000+ would be a more relevant number to quote in some battles, this would need to work well with at least 1000 though, and the server breaks around that level as it is. not supported.
You seem to forget that a collide mechanism between 2 objects in space already exists. It would be interesting if lag is contributed by this mechanism if so rewrite it and maybe add the cover mechanic as well.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.04.06 14:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Elayae
Originally by: Danika Princip 20+ is one thing, but this is eve. 2000+ would be a more relevant number to quote in some battles, this would need to work well with at least 1000 though, and the server breaks around that level as it is. not supported.
You seem to forget that a collide mechanism between 2 objects in space already exists. It would be interesting if lag is contributed by this mechanism if so rewrite it and maybe add the cover mechanic as well.
The collision mechanics will apply to the guy flying into something. they won't affect the two hundred maelstroms locking him and sending a volley of 1400mm at him. With cover mechanics, suddenly those 200 maelstroms are affected by the 50 wrecks on the field, the 300 ships (red and blue) between them and the target (because if you bring in cover, chances are you bring in screening too) and all of a sudden the server has thousands more things to keep track of. It falls over too soon as it is, a cover system would be truly horrible.
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Vincent VanOgh
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:38:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Vincent VanOgh on 06/04/2011 16:39:07 Not supported because of lag issues but the core idea is sound - it's damned stupid seeing ships shooting THROUGH a space station to hit something on the other side.
*edit*
implementation idea - use some kind of shadow casting to see what shots get 'blocked'?
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Vanity Alar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Vanity Alar on 24/04/2011 08:57:10 I have a simple suggestion use the client side process to determine if it can hit the target.. Offload some of the work to the clients the server doesnt have to handle all of the mechanices.
There's nothing that cant be done. (Some famous guy quoted.)
I'd use the Display graphics to determine if an object is there. There has to be some way. I understand it's a lot of physics.
Just one of those fundamental flaws that sticks in your craw when playing and you know it's not acting realistic.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.24 11:00:00 -
[12]
I like the idea of some kind of cover mechanics, at some point. Not too realistic, but a compromise of some degree just to add a bit more realism to the game. I think others are correct to say that the technology just couldn't manage it right now, especially on top of the existing lag problems. But the future is just around the corner and I think it'll soon enough be a possibility.
~Gnosis~ |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.24 13:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vanity Alar Edited by: Vanity Alar on 24/04/2011 08:57:10 I have a simple suggestion use the client side process to determine if it can hit the target.. Offload some of the work to the clients the server doesnt have to handle all of the mechanices.
Hilariously exploitable.
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.24 13:10:00 -
[14]
unfortunately as much as thats an awesome thing for a single player flight sim styled combat space game, its very difficult to do for 1000+ players on todays most advanced commercially available computer tech.
CCP have to do all of the physic computations otherwise clients will hack the client side and hey presto, nobody can damage u. thats a pretty ridiculous hack, practically the god button in eve tbh.
as much as i love ur thoughts on a "perfect" eve, its next to impossible at the moment. Although.... if you could build a workable quantum computer and give it to ccp it might work! tho ccp might spill some coffee or dead rotten fish all over it and blow it up accidently! CSM Prop 1 CSM Prop 2 |
bartos100
Killer Koalas R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.24 14:59:00 -
[15]
if you think longer about it it might be a counter to the massive blobs we have today
cause how many times do you shoot thou a fleetmember before you hit the target ?
if you then damage that fleetmember instead of the enemy huge fleets would kill themselves :D
resulting in smaller fleets and then the server should be able to handle it
but in the first few days i fear that the server will die a lot
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.04.24 15:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: bartos100 if you think longer about it it might be a counter to the massive blobs we have today
cause how many times do you shoot thou a fleetmember before you hit the target ?
if you then damage that fleetmember instead of the enemy huge fleets would kill themselves :D
resulting in smaller fleets and then the server should be able to handle it
but in the first few days i fear that the server will die a lot
Or it'd just result in fleets operating at wing level, maybe even squad for people like PL. Same number of ships, just smaller units.
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.04.24 23:05:00 -
[17]
This won't work out, and probally won't work out for a very long time. However if and/or when the servers have been vastly upgraded and EVE's terribly old half-dead core code is completely redone, this idea would be excellent.
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Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.04.25 11:43:00 -
[18]
The cover mechanic can easily be introduced in incursions or other missions where ship numbers are limited giving it an unique and first step to a true space immersion.
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Azhpol
Gallente Casa Del Wombat
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Posted - 2011.04.25 12:02:00 -
[19]
They already have 2-3 complete code re-writes on the list, but this can be added after those(Carbon is one re-write, and changing everything to support multithreading is another) because of those, one is gonna happen, and multithreading is much more needed that LOS.
And no, combining it all into one re-write is pants ****tingly ******ed, no developer/engineer in their right mind would ever do it and keep their job. ----------------------------------------------- Market help thread, or troll magnet? |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.25 12:36:00 -
[20]
All EVE needs to be perfected is chest-high walls.
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