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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 15:32:00 -
[1]
the projectile changes have been out for awhile now and i wonder how other projectile users feel about them, did they became the heavy hitters they are supposed to be, or should we minnie's continue training for ammar stuff?
personally it still feels that i need to fit 5 gyro's to be able to crank out any decent amount of damage, whilst seeing an apoc/raven easily repairing that damage and have it peel away at my shields in the mean time.
same goes for 1400's basicly, but they allow to sit at 100km safespot and just pound away whith a few dampners to prevent you from getting hit to much 
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
Judoman
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Posted - 2005.02.08 15:39:00 -
[2]
 i so want to get my tempests out of mothballs but to be honest its the same old story.... the howes hit well but too infrequently to be viable no matter what mods u run same with the other projectiles.....back to ravens and apocs....sigh
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 15:46:00 -
[3]
wel i've got these 650's and even 800's to hit well enough with a tracking enhancer. not a problem vs bs's anyway. maybe not prefect hits but it hits. the damage however just doesnt seem right.
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
Wulfgard
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:06:00 -
[4]
I concure, a reliable gun is one of the most important factor in winning a fight. What use is there to hit for +2000 dmg if it is only once in a blue moon? I'd rather stick to lasers and keep a steady flow of dmg, plus flying a ship that can armor tank makes more sense.
Now small and med proj... that's another story
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:10:00 -
[5]
To be honest, i dont see what you're whining about. I beat a Raven on SiSi using a Tempest. My Tempest skills are as follows: Minnie BS 2, L projectile 1. (I had just trained that up on SiSi to test it.)
True, i was using 'Scout' guns, but likewise, the Raven had 6 Arbalest Sieges on. Aswell as your usual XLC5 etc.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:15:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Elve Sorrow
To be honest, i dont see what you're whining about. I beat a Raven on SiSi using a Tempest. My Tempest skills are as follows: Minnie BS 2, L projectile 1. (I had just trained that up on SiSi to test it.)
True, i was using 'Scout' guns, but likewise, the Raven had 6 Arbalest Sieges on. Aswell as your usual XLC5 etc.
well it doesnt work on TQ i can tell you that, against a nub raven pilot i can at most break even. you just dont do enough damage to break or even hurt a raven tank, and a raven will eat through a dual repper tank or a shieldtank with a cl-5, granted with shieldtanking it takes a more skilled pilot to do it, but he will. unless i start using defenders perhaps. but i have to yield offense or nosses for that. and that will allow my opponent to simply outtank me.
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
starfox2004
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:22:00 -
[7]
Im very impressed with the changes ! my 280 II's hit 95 % of the time and 2 days ago i got a wrecking of 499.4 with NO tracking mods !
so yup good job well done for the devs !
p.s not tried large projectiles yet
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:24:00 -
[8]
just to keep this on topic, small or med projectiles arent half bad, it's the big guns/bs combination wich are , imo, still behind compared to other bs ships.
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:46:00 -
[9]
Jury is still out, I think.
Tracking is the number one variable to take into account FIRST, then damage. If you exceed the tracking limits, the damage is going to be crap, no matter how many gyro2's you have on or what your damage mod is. (yes I did try it).
Presently, I'm still messing around with 1200mm guns (5 guns 3 launchers), and a shield tank setup (xl clarity, amp, 3 hardeners), 5xPDU, 1 tracking enhancer 2.
Seems to work ok vs. NPCs. Damage seems to be 150-250 a shot at ~45km with emp/phased plasma. I would not risk using this setup in PvP until more thoroughly tested on SiSi tho, which I haven't gotten around to doing.
Still, 1200mm are better than they were. The 1400mm are better than what they were too.
You have to keep in mind that you ALWAYS, ALWAYS have to minimize your relative transversal velocity with regards to your target. That means, you either have to be pointing TOWARDS your enemy dead on, or moving away from your target dead on. Anything else your guns have to track more than they have to.
I'm starting to think of this tactics as the Minmatar Death Dance. You go towards your enemy, but the rate of closing is often too fast, then swing around and go away from him, and pound him while weaving in and out (insert bad jokes here).If the range is too great, you have to swing towards your enemy again, to minimize relative transversal velocity.
If you do this, you don't necessarily have to stack up on tracking enhancers and tracking computers, but devote slots to more defense and/or damage.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.02.08 16:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mikelangelo
*snip*
Alternatively, try that flashy 'Stop Ship' button. It does more than cancelling warp.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 17:07:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Rexy on 08/02/2005 17:07:48
hmm i don't really have problems with tracking, 650/800's seem to hit bs's fine for me, as long as i dont orbit em. keep at range does the job quite nicely. it's crapping out enough damage, even with a load of gyro's and/or enhancers, wich is the problem for me.
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
Trey Azagthoth
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Posted - 2005.02.08 17:18:00 -
[12]
In fight club, ppl are pwning in Temps against my Raven with XL C5-L and all. I got lvl 4 Caldari BS also. I am currently training for a Tempest.
Vin Diesel claims he has never hailed a taxi. He just runs up to them at stop lights, opens the door, shoves the current passenger over, and tells the cab driver what his new destination is. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.02.08 17:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Mikelangelo
*snip*
Alternatively, try that flashy 'Stop Ship' button. It does more than cancelling warp.
And there's always the handy option to select some speed other that flat-out or stop
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 17:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trey Azagthoth
In fight club, ppl are pwning in Temps against my Raven with XL C5-L and all. I got lvl 4 Caldari BS also. I am currently training for a Tempest.
what are they using then? i've had no luck at all vs a raven shortrange. tanking a raven with 2 defenders however is not a problem, since i can neutralize about half of the torps with those.
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.02.08 18:06:00 -
[15]
"what are they using then? i've had no luck at all vs a raven shortrange."
Why would you want to try taking on the Raven at short range with Tempest? It's like trying to beat the Megathron by letting it get within few km of you. o.O
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 18:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: j0sephine
"what are they using then? i've had no luck at all vs a raven shortrange."
Why would you want to try taking on the Raven at short range with Tempest? It's like trying to beat the Megathron by letting it get within few km of you. o.O
that's off course silly, a raven does just about the same DoT close range as long range. just takes a bit longer to start doing damage, i'll grant you that, but i doubt a raven will loose out that way. the difference is in using defenders or not i guess and having enough range between the two ships to let them do their job.
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.02.08 19:36:00 -
[17]
"that's off course silly, a raven does just about the same DoT close range as long range. just takes a bit longer to start doing damage, i'll grant you that, but i doubt a raven will loose out that way."
At longer distance Raven either will have to wait nearly minute or more to even start dealing damage with torps (which means she'll be well in the hole damage-wise by the time first missiles start hitting) or will switch to cruise missiles to start dealing damage faster, which will reduce her damage to level which is far easier to tank. Either way is much more reasonable than trying to tank torpedoes from her right from the start ... since it takes considerable dent in Raven's DoT* even without the defenders. Add defenders to it and things become even easier, especially since the longer distance, the more missiles you'll manage to take out...
*) DoT of missile boat is not constant, it starts at 0 and the slowly climbs to theoretical maximum after missiles begin hitting. The longer is that initial pause, the lower is effective DoT of the missile ship until way in the fight, by which time she's likely to be dead.
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.02.08 20:52:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Rexy on 08/02/2005 20:52:10
hmm if i start pounding a raven at 60km the raven's still tanking nicely even when the missile's start hitting. it gets better for the raven when it get's closer. and how often do you get the chance to engage a raven at 60km+ ranges...?
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.02.08 20:57:00 -
[19]
My new favourite:
Raven with torps and nosses + MWD and good recharge.
If startrange is 40km down to 20km you can get into 20km scrmabling range full speed while your mwd speed keeps your salvos of torps bunched together so that whoever is the target gets hit by an abysmal amount of torps at once, immediately making whatever repairrate he has ineffective.
ofc, its more dangerous that way too.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2005.02.08 21:03:00 -
[20]
In regards to the raven question...
I find ravens fairly easy to beat in anything cept a short range set up. Or, if the raven pilot fits a MWD and can get under my guns.
As for the tempest. I think it comes down to pilot skill now, more then it did before. Blasterthron VS autotemp now is a more or less even fight. Assuming both pilots are skilled, the fight will come down to who can get to thier optimal and stay there. If the temp canhold the mega at 9km or so he'll win. If the mega gets to 5km the mega wins.
Also, I find ravens go down to a 1400/1200 with defenders most of the time. With out the defenders its more or less even.
All and all I would say the temp is actually a good ship now. Though anything with pulse fitted will kill a temp, but thats more a case of pulse being uber then other ships sucking.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.02.08 22:17:00 -
[21]
Lasers are still more useful and generally do more damage.
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Skelator
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Posted - 2005.02.08 22:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: starfox2004
Im very impressed with the changes ! my 280 II's hit 95 % of the time and 2 days ago i got a wrecking of 499.4 with NO tracking mods !
so yup good job well done for the devs !
p.s not tried large projectiles yet
I second the above.
The 280 II's literally pound the crap out of any target and rarely miss.
With a weapons damage mod II the damage is spectacular.
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Incub
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Posted - 2005.02.08 23:23:00 -
[23]
uhm, to the posters above here about the 280 II's, thats bullocks
the chance to hit with 280's is still the same, the damage just got upped with 20%.
so yes they pack a lot of punch, but the RoF the worst around. they are quite balanced imho
250's are definitely more versatile, but All the cool kids are using 280's. |
Skelator
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Posted - 2005.02.09 00:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Incub
uhm, to the posters above here about the 280 II's, thats bullocks
the chance to hit with 280's is still the same, the damage just got upped with 20%.
so yes they pack a lot of punch, but the RoF the worst around. they are quite balanced imho
Try training the proper skills 
I HARDLY ever miss (In my optimal range I should have added though)
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.02.09 02:13:00 -
[25]
The guns are better, the Tempest itself still needs a nudge.
Overall the problem is torps just outdamage anything the Tempest can put on, until you have reached the higher skill levels.
So for us younger pilots its best that we fit as many torps as we can, then put guns in the rest of the slots.
When fighting a Raven use defenders. But this is remarkably undynamic of the Tempest. With this fitting against anything else you will loose...
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Incub
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Posted - 2005.02.09 02:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Skelator
Originally by: Incub
uhm, to the posters above here about the 280 II's, thats bullocks
the chance to hit with 280's is still the same, the damage just got upped with 20%.
so yes they pack a lot of punch, but the RoF the worst around. they are quite balanced imho
Try training the proper skills
I HARDLY ever miss (In my optimal range I should have added though)
well i didn't say anything about that did i? :P
i only said that the chances to hit remained the same just that the damage got upped on the 280's
they dont hit more often then they did, they just have a little extra punch (which finally makes up for the BAD RoF)
250's are definitely more versatile, but All the cool kids are using 280's. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:28:00 -
[27]
I used tech 2 720s before the patch and after the patch and I don't see really any damage difference. I see it in my gun stats but not in my logs of damage. Some how they hit just about anything down to about 8km up to 72km with tracking computer IIs with proton M ( emp M/phased still hits great at 40km btw ). Conversley, I can still hit at 8km up to about 64km without tracking computer IIs. As for 800mm, they are still pathetic. Will be trying 800 IIs soon as well as 1400 IIs.
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The Nest
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Kriete
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Posted - 2005.02.09 04:49:00 -
[28]
I have to say I've been using a Wolf with T2 280s adn it is sick...the damage will kill most frigs in 2 volleys, NPCs with maybe 2 or 3 shots...S Proj rock now
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Calmitra
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Posted - 2005.02.09 06:38:00 -
[29]
i have to agreewith thw small turret and medium turret comments. my wolf with 4 280 mms II kills all my npc mission rats faster than my typhoon will.Currently training higher skills for my munnin and 720mm IIs and it would seem they can equal the damage of my 1200 mms on my phoon with no damage mods , wrecking for well over 700 with low specialisation skills atm, also seems to hit at close range upto 5km with no problems using phased plasma. Had some fun with my cyclone fitted with 5 650mm IIs and 3 launchers too :).As for bs sized guns i havent really seen much difference in damage but they do seem to hit more.Cant comment on pvp as that isnt my thing , but overall id say the changes have had a positive effect :) and not before time , thanks ccp.
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.02.09 07:10:00 -
[30]
Don't bother with 1400s...they're like shooting bricks at a motorcycle going 200mph. You get lucky ever 10 minutes but that's it. Damage is great...the real problem didn't get fixed.
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