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Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.04.25 15:57:00 - [331] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Lame or not he gets on my nerves.You can't win with him and it's pointless to discuss anything with him. It's his way or none and I can't believe after all the fuss made over this topic that he can say there's nothing wrong. He may get on your nerves, but he's logical and correct with all of his conclusions. Maybe your too emotionally involved in this topic now and need to step back for a time. Just an idea. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:00:00 - [332] Wow what a read. Starting to wonder if Tippia and Hell are married cause man.. talk about going back and forth over a topic. Here ill sum it up after many many pages. Ccp thinks that the Tougher it is in eve the more it is in line with the harsh mentality they want to potray in the game. So in essence CCP likes to promote your the ability to be an ASS whenever you can be. This being said CCP acts like an ASS at times even when they know that in concept and logic you the player may be correct. They feel they should act the same way toward the common body of players in order to maintain the order of the Eve universe. This being to promote PVP in any form possible thus keeping in line with a universe of chaos and control constantly at each other in all things. Also all that being said I dont think they have figured out yet.. The more times you flash red in front of an angry bull. ( or players in this case) The more ****ed people get about the illogical game play or perceived wrongs that do take place. That and many broken things in Eve which are shiny at first but dull fast add even more to the frustration of your common eve player. As far as this topic goes well. (1) If you have the capability loot as you go. EG: Second account that comes in while first has aggro and tractors cans in and loots as you go. (2) If you don't care about the loot then set it to all blue so anybody can have it. (3) Blow up the cans as the Ninja gets to them and watch the tears? (4) Believe it or not some Ninja folk do have a sense of honor. Make a deal and get them involved in a mission for a cut. Overall I do not think CCP will ever change this as it goes hand in hand with the ( LETS give the player the ability to add chaos to the game) mentality. I do missions as well but i choose areas that have low population and thus a lower chance of Ninja folks to show up and never have an issue. Perhaps you may want to try the same.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:06:00 - [333] Originally by: PuncherDavis Wow what a read. Starting to wonder if Tippia and Hell are married cause man.. talk about going back and forth over a topic. Here ill sum it up after many many pages. Ccp thinks that the Tougher it is in eve the more it is in line with the harsh mentality they want to potray in the game. So in essence CCP likes to promote your the ability to be an ASS whenever you can be. This being said CCP acts like an ASS at times even when they know that in concept and logic you the player may be correct. They feel they should act the same way toward the common body of players in order to maintain the order of the Eve universe. This being to promote PVP in any form possible thus keeping in line with a universe of chaos and control constantly at each other in all things. Also all that being said I dont think they have figured out yet.. The more times you flash red in front of an angry bull. ( or players in this case) The more ****ed people get about the illogical game play or perceived wrongs that do take place. That and many broken things in Eve which are shiny at first but dull fast add even more to the frustration of your common eve player. As far as this topic goes well. (1) If you have the capability loot as you go. EG: Second account that comes in while first has aggro and tractors cans in and loots as you go. (2) If you don't care about the loot then set it to all blue so anybody can have it. (3) Blow up the cans as the Ninja gets to them and watch the tears? (4) Believe it or not some Ninja folk do have a sense of honor. Make a deal and get them involved in a mission for a cut. Overall I do not think CCP will ever change this as it goes hand in hand with the ( LETS give the player the ability to add chaos to the game) mentality. I do missions as well but i choose areas that have low population and thus a lower chance of Ninja folks to show up and never have an issue. Perhaps you may want to try the same. I'm not after the salvage as I leave it where it lands lol. I jumped into this because I agree with the op,it is flawed and causes confusion. I agree with you that CP likes to cause chaos and I think flagging salvagers would do just that. It should be in their interest. As far as being married to him..I would have thrown his ass out the window a long time ago
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:09:00 - [334] Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 25/04/2011 16:09:41 Originally by: Mag's He may get on your nerves, but he's logical and correct with all of his conclusions. logical and correct with some of his conclusions. He's not dumb by far and I keep trying to figure out if he's just hard headed as a bull or a troll. Still not sure to be honest.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:11:00 - [335] Originally by: HeIIfire11 I never said I want to change a thing. Yes you did. Most notablyà Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Tippia What do you want changed? I want the salvager flagged.I want him to risk losing his ship just like the mission runner does As it happens, what this change boils down to is an increase in mission-runner income, which means you want to change that as well. Also, you keep banging on about this supposed bad game design. One would hope that you'd want to see it fixedà Quote: I was stating my opinion and presented evidence that what they intend salvaging to be and what it is are two different things. Your evidence is lacking. They intended salvage to be a mini-profession where you find wrecks and extract salvage from them. That's what it is. It could certainly be buffed to provide easier access to those wrecks, but at the same time, you're arguing that the opposite should happen. Quote: Like I said before,I can call you a lot of things but not stupid. You've called me stupid plenty of time in this thread. Ad hominems only hurt your argument though. so you're free to keep doing it. Originally by: HeIIfire11 Lame or not he gets on my nerves. Yes. Do you want to know why? Because I push you to actually elaborate on your thoughts, state your case, present arguments for your case, explain what it is you want and why you want it, and explain why it would be beneficial to do it that way. I'm dragging you, kicking and screaming, along the process of creating a fully featured, presentable suggestion for the betterment of the game. It requires a lot of thought and is a tough process, but in the end, it actually generates results. This is a good thing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:16:00 - [336] Originally by: Tippia I'm dragging you, kicking and screaming, along the process of creating a fully featured, presentable suggestion for the betterment of the game. It requires a lot of thought and is a tough process, but in the end, it actually generates results. This is a good thing. You're dragging me kicking and screaming until I say the all mighty ccp is perfect and until I turn into a fanboy like you. NO thanks you do that job very well. News flash!! Eve is far from perfect and this is one of those things that cause that.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:17:00 - [337] Originally by: HeIIfire11 News flash!! Eve is far from perfect and this is one of those things that cause that. So let's figure out a good way of fixing that thenà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:20:00 - [338] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeIIfire11 News flash!! Eve is far from perfect and this is one of those things that cause that. So let's figure out a good way of fixing that thenà This is what I have been trying from the start and have since then proposed a number of fixes all of which you have declined. I am also open to any discussion having to do with this,not that it matters but it's not like I've been saying it's my way or no way.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:21:00 - [339] Edited by: Tippia on 25/04/2011 16:22:54 Originally by: HeIIfire11 This is what I have been trying from the start and have since then proposed a number of fixes all of which you have declined. àbecause you haven't considered the consequences and/or failed to argue why they are good (or needed). You are also arguing for two diametrically opposed things at once. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:26:00 - [340] Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 25/04/2011 16:27:00 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeIIfire11 This is what I have been trying from the start and have since then proposed a number of fixes all of which you have declined. àbecause you haven't considered the consequences and/or argued why they are good. You are also arguing for two diametrically opposed things at once. Yes because of the "lvl 4 mission buff" if you can even call it that because I think everyone agrees that salvage is worth as good as nothing now a days. So this shouldn't be the thing to put a halt to the discussion of this topic. I know of two missions or so where the salvage is worth it and earns you like 10 million if you're lucky and get the right parts.Other than that is more like 5 million and in most cases even less to none.So where is the huge buff?

Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:27:00 - [341] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeIIfire11 News flash!! Eve is far from perfect and this is one of those things that cause that. So let's figure out a good way of fixing that thenà This is what I have been trying from the start and have since then proposed a number of fixes all of which you have declined. I am also open to any discussion having to do with this,not that it matters but it's not like I've been saying it's my way or no way. You ever think that Eve isn't "perfect" by design? Or perhaps, in the eyes of many, this is a "perfect" system already that opens up the opportunity for a certain niche of players to utilize to generate extra isk in their own way? There are those that ninja salvage for isk, there are those that do it for a chance at PvP. Both are fully valid aspects of the game. There's no need to remove these aspects of play because you find it unsettling.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:30:00 - [342] Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 25/04/2011 16:31:05 Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeIIfire11 News flash!! Eve is far from perfect and this is one of those things that cause that. So let's figure out a good way of fixing that thenà This is what I have been trying from the start and have since then proposed a number of fixes all of which you have declined. I am also open to any discussion having to do with this,not that it matters but it's not like I've been saying it's my way or no way. You ever think that Eve isn't "perfect" by design? Or perhaps, in the eyes of many, this is a "perfect" system already that opens up the opportunity for a certain niche of players to utilize to generate extra isk in their own way? There are those that ninja salvage for isk, there are those that do it for a chance at PvP. Both are fully valid aspects of the game. There's no need to remove these aspects of play because you find it unsettling. And just what would flagging the salvager change? The mission runner would still have the choice to shoot or not. And the salvager would still have the choice to salvage a mission or a ded space complex where it wont get him aggro. Game remains the same with new found opportunity to pvp for those salvagers who want it. Edit: Okay the very minor mission buff would change too but there are other ways to balance that out if it's such a big deal.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:40:00 - [343] Edited by: Tippia on 25/04/2011 16:42:00 Originally by: HeIIfire11 everyone agrees that salvage is worth as good as nothing now a days. So this shouldn't be the thing to put a halt to the discussion of this topic. Maybe, but it still represents an increase in mission rewards. Why is that needed? It also completely gut-shots an entire (mini)profession. Why is that needed (or, indeed, even remotely a good thing)? Also, claiming that salvage isn't worth much raises the question of, if it isn't, why are mission-runners so adamant that it absolutely must be theirs? Quote: where is the huge buff? It doesn't have to be all that huge, but it's there none the less. Moreover, it goes against the pattern of what you consider a series of (effectively) nerfs ù does it really make sense to counter-act those (and sacrificing a completely different profession in the process)? Quote: And just what would flagging the salvager change? As mentioned, it would increase mission rewards and kill the salvaging profession. It would also most likely create a lot more dead mission-runners. It also wouldn't really fix what you see as design flaws in the salvaging profession ù the reason you apparently got into this thread to begin with. To fix that, you'd have to make wrecks scannable, whether in missions or not; you'd have to auto-blue empty wrecks; and you'd have to somehow mark loot separately from the wreck (the idea of dropping a separate loot cans creates a lot more junk for the server to track, so I doubt they'll like that idea). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.04.25 16:48:00 - [344] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 25/04/2011 16:31:05 And just what would flagging the salvager change? The mission runner would still have the choice to shoot or not. And the salvager would still have the choice to salvage a mission or a ded space complex where it wont get him aggro. Game remains the same with new found opportunity to pvp for those salvagers who want it. Edit: Okay the very minor mission buff would change too but there are other ways to balance that out if it's such a big deal. Um... well hell, you got me there. I was thinking of the other ideas that would prevent anyone from being able to salvage. Flagging... I like that idea with the caveat that you only get flagged if the wreck has cargo in it (the appearance of stealing). This does add something to the game in a good way. It allows the potential for the one that had a wreck salvaged out from under them to be the one initiating combat.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.04.25 17:08:00 - [345] I have a solution. No Concord in mission pockets. There, now you can shoot the ninja salvagers.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.25 17:25:00 - [346] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 25/04/2011 16:42:00 Originally by: HeIIfire11 everyone agrees that salvage is worth as good as nothing now a days. So this shouldn't be the thing to put a halt to the discussion of this topic. Maybe, but it still represents an increase in mission rewards. Why is that needed? It also completely gut-shots an entire (mini)profession. Why is that needed (or, indeed, even remotely a good thing)? It isn't needed but nor does it gut-shot an entire profession. The mission runner would still be faced with the problem if he should shoot or not. There's no way of telling if that salvager has an alt or fleet waiting for just that. It would however give those who want to risk it a shot. Originally by: Tippia Also, claiming that salvage isn't worth much raises the question of, if it isn't, why are mission-runners so adamant that it absolutely must be theirs? I don't know. Maybe because they belong to the "lvl 4 earns too little" crowd. I am not one of those mission runners. I belong to the bunch that doesn't like the grief attempt and would like to blast the salvager and take my chances. Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeIIfire11 where is the huge buff? It doesn't have to be all that huge, but it's there none the less. Moreover, it goes against the pattern of what you consider a series of (effectively) nerfs ù does it really make sense to counter-act those (and sacrificing a completely different profession in the process)? This belongs to that other topic as far as agreeing with lvl 4 being nerfed.We would have to solve that first in order for me to give you that answer. And you wouldn't be sacrificing another profession because like i said the risk of being setup wouldn't change. So the salvagers would be able to continue salvaging with a slightly higher risk. As it stands now the salvager has as good as no risk. The only risk he has is getting aggro if the missioner warps out. That isn't much because in a destroyer you can be out in a few seconds. And even if he loses the ship it costs nothing and is worth no more than one mission salvaged.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.25 17:39:00 - [347] Edited by: Tippia on 25/04/2011 17:39:52 Originally by: HeIIfire11 It isn't needed but nor does it gut-shot an entire profession. Well if it's not neededà And I do believe it nukes the salvager profession ù it already has its competitive component built in. The problem is rather that mission-runners try to engage in that competition in sub-optimal ships and fits (hence the "how am I supposed to beat a small frigate?" complaint) because they try to combine it with mission-running. Quote: It would however give those who want to risk it a shot. But that would also mean drastically changing the equipment and skill requirements for the salvagers. If mission-runners want to "risk it", they can already do so by going to lowsec. Or they can do it by flying more salvaging-friendly ships (but that would rather increase the risk of the mission than of the salvaging bit). Quote: I belong to the bunch that doesn't like the grief attempt and would like to blast the salvager and take my chances. Salvaging isn't griefing, though. It's a legitimate profession, and you might as well argue that the salvagers should be given the choice to attack the mission runners because they are the griefers trying to "steal" the salvager's rewards. Quote: And you wouldn't be sacrificing another profession because like i said the risk of being setup wouldn't change. Giving the other party a right to kill you ù a right they currently do not have ù doesn't change the risk?! Eeehhhrrmmà right. I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with that one. Quote: So the salvagers would be able to continue salvaging with a slightly higher risk. As it stands now the salvager has as good as no risk. He has the same risk as his competition: he risks having wasted the time to find those wrecks by being beaten to the punch. Why does the risk have to be higher than that, especially considering how small the rewards are? Compare this to the (almost equally) negligible risks of mission-running and the much higher rewards that activity hasà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Johnathan Walker Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.25 18:10:00 - [348] A few solutions: A) Declare war and blow them up B) Hire salvage buddies, whether corpmates, real life friends, or one of the groups advertising said services BII) Form fleet, enable loot logging BIII) Split the salvage received C) Salvage it yourself with an alternate character D) Thank the person salvaging, since if there is loot it will drop a nice little container. Now you know what has loot in it, in case you didn't want to just look at the wreck icons themselves to start with. :P Warmly, "The Bear" JW
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.04.25 18:48:00 - [349] Originally by: Lady Spank I can't be alone in being utterly indifferent to salvaging wrecks can I. Whenever I used to mission run I'd pretty much just blitz missions and leave the loot/wrecks behind. I only once had a ninja trying to goad me about stealing my stuffs and when I said feel free to take what you like apparently that was me crying sweet sweet tears. Heh. Yup, on the rare occasion when someone shows up in my mission, I abandon all the wrecks because I usually can't be bothered to loot and salvage them. It's not as much of a pain now with the Noctis, but still, it's boredom following more boredom (the mission itself). -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW----- Bring back the NeoNeoCom!
Barghiest	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:46:00 - [350] Edited by: Barghiest on 25/04/2011 19:50:29 Edited by: Barghiest on 25/04/2011 19:46:29 Since there is a lot of talk about flagging the wrecks, etc.. It should be flagged to their true owner. THE FACTION you just murdered a pilot of... The contents should belong to that faction, since you are just a merc of another faction, upholding the ideals and beliefs that a pilot of said faction is the enemy. Thus, any action against said property will result in further loss of standing (salvage or otherwise). Spoils go to the victor (but that Faction doesn't have to like it as your standing plumits, yet your notoriety increases upon completion of the mission). Ninja Salvagers? There's no such thing; it's just another pilot taking advantage of another pilot (NPC or PC); wlecome to EvE. And any pilot who takes advantage of another should reap the rewards and consequences of those actions (you don't have to like it; note their profile and move on or seek revenge); it should be no different with NPC, and this would be one way of measuring it since standing is already a game mechanic. Keep it simple. First come first served.

Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:03:00 - [351] Ninja Salvaging is a legitmate mechanic because the devs like to make life easy on griefers in the game because if people had to actually take some risks and put a little work into being asshats the game might lose some of it's "dark harsh universe" feel It's a stupid rational that should be done away with but won't be because the devs are the biggest griefers in the game. Salvage is spoils of war, The capsuleer who goes out and kills the pirates are not criminals operating lawlessly killing random people they are licensed privateers operating under a legitimate charter that is sanctioned by the legitimate legal authorities (Concord). The Pirates are legitmate targets because they are criminals and the faction navies are legal combatants as such they are not offered protection by Concord and you can blow them up and they can blow you up with impunity. However Ninja Salvaging is theft I don't give a crap what CCP says or how many rationalizations Tippia wants to make. The wrecks generated by the mission runner are spoils of war just like the modules and ammo left inside the wreck. Now whether one should be able to claim those spoils should be based upon whether you can defend them. Unfortunately rather than doing the rational thing and having salvage flag for aggression like any other theft CCP has chosen to leave that protection intact allowing the Ninja to operate with impunity and the full weight of Concord protection. And don't give me that nonsense about Concord protecting the mission runners making it reasonable. Concord only protects (if you can call it that) mission runners from unsanctioned attacks. If salvaging flagged for aggression it would be much more consistent with the rest of EVE's mechanics. Because at least then the mission runner could chose whether to assert their claim over the salvage by attacking the salvager (which would grant the salvager the right to self defense) Oh and if you think it isn't simply a mechanic to facilitate "grief play" explain to me why you can't probe down wrecks? That said I don't see the mechanic being changed so you're only real choice it to quit or deal with it.
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:12:00 - [352] Originally by: Skex Relbore Ninja Salvaging is a legitmate mechanic because the devs like to make life easy on griefers in the game because if people had to actually take some risks and put a little work into being asshats the game might lose some of it's "dark harsh universe" feel It's a stupid rational that should be done away with but won't be because the devs are the biggest griefers in the game. Salvage is spoils of war, The capsuleer who goes out and kills the pirates are not criminals operating lawlessly killing random people they are licensed privateers operating under a legitimate charter that is sanctioned by the legitimate legal authorities (Concord). The Pirates are legitmate targets because they are criminals and the faction navies are legal combatants as such they are not offered protection by Concord and you can blow them up and they can blow you up with impunity. However Ninja Salvaging is theft I don't give a crap what CCP says or how many rationalizations Tippia wants to make. The wrecks generated by the mission runner are spoils of war just like the modules and ammo left inside the wreck. Now whether one should be able to claim those spoils should be based upon whether you can defend them. Unfortunately rather than doing the rational thing and having salvage flag for aggression like any other theft CCP has chosen to leave that protection intact allowing the Ninja to operate with impunity and the full weight of Concord protection. And don't give me that nonsense about Concord protecting the mission runners making it reasonable. Concord only protects (if you can call it that) mission runners from unsanctioned attacks. If salvaging flagged for aggression it would be much more consistent with the rest of EVE's mechanics. Because at least then the mission runner could chose whether to assert their claim over the salvage by attacking the salvager (which would grant the salvager the right to self defense) Oh and if you think it isn't simply a mechanic to facilitate "grief play" explain to me why you can't probe down wrecks? That said I don't see the mechanic being changed so you're only real choice it to quit or deal with it. Pretty much this. CCP eventually changed jet can theft and everyone rejoiced. Carebears felt more protected (though they weren't) and people who wanted to blow up carebears were able to do so much more easily. The only people who whinged were the greifers who didn't actually want conflict just lulz. Same thing only forward by a number of years.
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:15:00 - [353] Theres a difference between the two. Jet cans were added to increase mission rewards / allow for some reward for killing another player. Wrecks were added to create a new profession, not to increase mission rewards.
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:18:00 - [354] Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Theres a difference between the two. Jet cans were added to increase mission rewards / allow for some reward for killing another player. Wrecks were added to create a new profession, not to increase mission rewards. Maybe. But they went and got the peanut butter in the chocolate when the wrecks contained what the jetcans used to. The wrecks are acting as jet cans, also as salvage material containers.
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:24:00 - [355] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Theres a difference between the two. Jet cans were added to increase mission rewards / allow for some reward for killing another player. Wrecks were added to create a new profession, not to increase mission rewards. Maybe. But they went and got the peanut butter in the chocolate when the wrecks contained what the jetcans used to. The wrecks are acting as jet cans, also as salvage material containers. Technically, the wrecks contain the jet can, not the loot. The jet can is still there.
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:26:00 - [356] Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Theres a difference between the two. Jet cans were added to increase mission rewards / allow for some reward for killing another player. Wrecks were added to create a new profession, not to increase mission rewards. Maybe. But they went and got the peanut butter in the chocolate when the wrecks contained what the jetcans used to. The wrecks are acting as jet cans, also as salvage material containers. Technically, the wrecks contain the jet can, not the loot. The jet can is still there. In what techinical sense? Not in any that any player sees. If a wreck is salvaged then a jetcan is ejected, sure. But the wreck contains the loot. It's what you click on and click OPEN on and get the loot out of. It's like saying a Large Collidable Object contains the jet can, which is false. You have to destroy the object and a jet can with contents is created. In a wreck, you open it and there's the loot. The jetcan is just there in case the wreck gets destroyed.
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:31:00 - [357] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Theres a difference between the two. Jet cans were added to increase mission rewards / allow for some reward for killing another player. Wrecks were added to create a new profession, not to increase mission rewards. Maybe. But they went and got the peanut butter in the chocolate when the wrecks contained what the jetcans used to. The wrecks are acting as jet cans, also as salvage material containers. Technically, the wrecks contain the jet can, not the loot. The jet can is still there. In what techinical sense? Not in any that any player sees. If a wreck is salvaged then a jetcan is ejected, sure. But the wreck contains the loot. It's what you click on and click OPEN on and get the loot out of. It's like saying a Large Collidable Object contains the jet can, which is false. You have to destroy the object and a jet can with contents is created. In a wreck, you open it and there's the loot. The jetcan is just there in case the wreck gets destroyed. The jet can is inside the wreck. You open the can to get the loot. When you salvage the wreck, the can is left behind. If however you destroy the wreck, you also destroy the can.
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:35:00 - [358] Edited by: Corina''s Bodyguard on 25/04/2011 21:35:04 Gah, double post...
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:35:00 - [359] Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard The jet can is inside the wreck. You open the can to get the loot. When you salvage the wreck, the can is left behind. If however you destroy the wreck, you also destroy the can. That's your own creation. Here's mine: The wreck IS the can, not a container for it like other objects. If you loot the can, the loot is yours. If you shoot the can, the loot is destroyed. If the wreck contained the can, when you destroyed it, the can would eject like it does with other jet can containing objects, it doesn't. It's obviously a mix of the two.
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.04.25 21:39:00 - [360] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard The jet can is inside the wreck. You open the can to get the loot. When you salvage the wreck, the can is left behind. If however you destroy the wreck, you also destroy the can. That's your own creation. Here's mine: The wreck IS the can, not a container for it like other objects. If you loot the can, the loot is yours. If you shoot the can, the loot is destroyed. If the wreck contained the can, when you destroyed it, the can would eject like it does with other jet can containing objects, it doesn't. It's obviously a mix of the two. Fair point.



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