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Keylah
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:03:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Zifrian This has to be a troll post.
Anywho, I don't know why people get so bent out of shape about this. I have a buddy that has his blood boil when it happens to him. I just shoot the wrecks. Ninja salvagers get pleasure of seeing people rant and complain on the boards ("carebear tears"). So just deny them of that pleasure. It makes me happy as a clam to destroy a wreck when I see some ninja looter trying to salvage it.
Also, If people just calculated out how long it takes to salvage and the amount of time to screw with all the stuff to get your isk out of it, you would probably find it's just easier to blitz the mission and leave the wrecks anyway. It's sad to see so many people think that the "best way" to make isk is to kill everything and then salvage all the wrecks, and repeat. These are probably the same people using their lp's to buy and sell implants.
Oh well
I agree on all counts.
-K
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:05:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: HeIIfire11 I've addressed almost everything you said in this thread already.Dont jump to the last page and get all in my koolaid because you're to lazy to read it.Sorry there is no TL;DR version.
You addressed nothing, you provided lame insults and tautologies. It has nothing to do with laziness, no one wants to read crap churned out by an inferior mind.
Wrong,I addressed everything like I said before and I don't believe you read more than the first page.The first page in which I did get a bit annoyed by Tippia because he always wants to know everything better evreywhere he posts.
As far as no one wanting to read it wrong again..3,075 people wanted to read it.Cut that in half because of all the frequent posters and its still a lot for one night.So it seems that the topic does interest people.
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium no one wants to read crap churned out by an inferior mind.
Then stop posting.Saves you the time trying to google up all those big words
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Chopper Rollins
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:06:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Chopper Rollins on 24/04/2011 12:09:05 AW SWEET IT'S THIS THREAD AGAIN. Any of you know much about the laws around maritime salvage? It is NOT illegal to fail to come to the aid of a ship in distress. It is NOT illegal to salvage a ship that has foundered to the point that all hands have abandoned ship or died. This sets up a situation where, if you know the local craft, you can listen to a distress call all night on the radio, with your feet up as the exact location of the treasure is repeated into the air. Then, when you're sure the craft has sunk or been abandoned, you can fire up your rustbucketty salvage rig and get out there and take anything you want.(EXCEPT cargo, property of craft's owner) It is NOT legal for the captain or crew to get in your way or attack you over it. That would be piracy, as you are a legitimate businessman. These winches? $2500 each. Get all those brass fittings. Two forty foot pine masts? Great, we can upgrade the scuba gear and buy a new boat so Baz can run back to shore for specialised equipment or more beers.
Makes me feel like a spot of ninja salvaging right now, this thread. Thanks for the inspiration, pity about the lack of insight, except into how belligerent people can get when they don't know what's going on.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:07:00 -
[244]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 As far as no one wanting to read it wrong again..3,075 people wanted to read it.Cut that in half because of all the frequent posters and its still a lot for one night.So it seems that the topic does interest people.
3,075 people read the thread. Idiot. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:11:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: HeIIfire11 As far as no one wanting to read it wrong again..3,075 people wanted to read it.Cut that in half because of all the frequent posters and its still a lot for one night.So it seems that the topic does interest people.
3,075 people read the thread. Idiot.
Who's insulting now? You mad bro? You forgot the rest though....here,I'll fix it for you.
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Cut that in half because of all the frequent posters and its still a lot for one night.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:11:00 -
[246]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Wrong,I addressed everything like I said before and I don't believe you read more than the first page.The first page in which
àyou didn't say anything about salvaging and just blathered on about bad game design. You also didn't in any way address the point HI made. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Maddox Yung
Rising Ashes Inc. Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:11:00 -
[247]
most impressive these ninjas are.
oh, cept one problem: these ********s dont know anything about missions, hence why i keep killing them, without even shooting them.
i do believe i was doing a lv 4 when four of these lazy sods mysteriously appeared and started salvaging. i warped out, came back and two hjad been popped by the rats that were still there.
the other two warped out, they came back and started again. one of them stole something, and *poof* one shot, gone. my my it was so fun watching him die, followed by a salvager emorage attack. the other one ran for it, but he died unexpectadly in front of the astation when i caught up with him....
ninjas are good for something.
pretty explosions, and guaranteed emorage when they fail. ***********************
A Warrior Of The Collective
We Are The Machine |
Mikel Laurentson
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:17:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Mandos2k The only thing that should be changed is to be able to use the tractor beam on all wrecks. Let the Noctis rise to fulfill its true destiny!
Stick a sensor booster on a noctis, and troll the gankers in Jita. 2km/sec tractor beams hauling out 80km = hilarity.
As to ninja salvagers, just abandon the wrecks. Either they're struggling n00bs who'll appreciate it, or they were hoping for ganks and they'll leave disappointed.
Alternatively, go to a busy hub and run L2s in an Tengu. You won't make much money, but anyone scanning you down is going to be incredibly ****ed off when they realise. All that effort, for a pile of frigate wrecks.
tl;dr: OP just doesn't troll hard enough.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:18:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Wrong,I addressed everything like I said before and I don't believe you read more than the first page.The first page in which
àyou didn't say anything about salvaging and just blathered on about bad game design. You also didn't in any way address the point HI made.
For the fith time..reread the thread.And it is bad game design.
Originally by: Tippia You also didn't in any way address the point HI made.
Who is HI?
Originally by: Tippia anything about salvaging.
Really?I must have been talking about sunshine and lollipops then..my bad.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:22:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/04/2011 12:22:45
Originally by: HeIIfire11 For the fith time..reread the thread.
Yes, please do. You'll quickly notice that, contrary to what you claimed, you didn't address any of HI's points on page 1.
Quote: Really?
You were talking about the lack of automatic flagging of wrecks and about scanning wrecks. So yes, really. The closest you got was to say that shooting wrecks was a good way to counter ninja salvagers. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:25:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 24/04/2011 12:27:23
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: HeIIfire11 As far as no one wanting to read it wrong again..3,075 people wanted to read it.Cut that in half because of all the frequent posters and its still a lot for one night.So it seems that the topic does interest people.
3,075 people read the thread. Idiot.
Who's insulting now? You mad bro?
About your stupidity? No. I am never mad that others are inferior. The only thing that bothered me in this whole thread is when you lied about being a PhD and a professor. My friends who do have such positions would never stoop to being insolent and are literally incapable of showing the level of wanton stupidity you have shown. But the nine and possibly more pages of you proving yourself to be a liar have made it better.
Edit: Woops, that was Amarraz, thought I had got that wrong, and turns out I did. I am not wrong about you being insolent or wantonly stupid though. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:25:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Mikel Laurentson Stick a sensor booster on a noctis, and troll the gankers in Jita. 2km/sec tractor beams hauling out 80km = hilarity.
Yes this would be pretty funny but you cant tractor beam anyone elses wreck because its theirs..which Tippia says it isn't.Thats the point I'm trying to make.
And you couldn't have killed 3 salvagers because the oracle (tippia) says the salvager would always win if attacked.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:27:00 -
[253]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 you cant tractor beam anyone elses wreck because its theirs..which Tippia says it isn't.
The wreck isn't; the can is. You can't move one without moving the other, which means the wreck stays put as well. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:32:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
About your stupidity? No. I am never mad that others are inferior. The only thing that bothered me in this whole thread is when you lied about being a PhD and a professor. My friends who do have such positions would never stoop to being insolent and are literally incapable of showing the level of wanton stupidity you have shown. But the nine and possibly more pages of you proving yourself to be a liar have made it better.
Lol you go with your bad self
Only one problem..I know reading is hard but if you sound it out and try again you will find that I said no such thing.That was Amarraz.
Again..read the flippin thread before trying to look smart.Here I'll quote it for you.
Originally by: Amarraz I have a Ph.D. and am a professor, so I'm not especially dumb.
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Barghiest
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:33:00 -
[255]
Edited by: Barghiest on 24/04/2011 12:35:27 Edited by: Barghiest on 24/04/2011 12:34:37 I thought about reading the whole thread, but got to lazy, so I'll just throw this out there.
Real-worls perspective on salvage on the high seas; typically, you tow them in and you get some finders fees (which means that some corporation or entity still has rights to the wreck, not the pirates (missions runner) who shot the pilots.
(in reference to the whole car bit) How about if the car was leased, the bank owns it. Or the decendents of the family, perhaps the driver had a Will to what is still concidered the dead driver's property.
What about in the game; the faction owns the ships and the loot. Your stealing from them.
Mission running is in essense taking a side in EvE and doing sactioned piracy from that corporation against proposed war crimianls, pirates, etc. of that given corporation.
The corporation grants you the rights to any loot and rewards you for the success (also bounty from concord in some cases - just think of the meaning of the word bounty).
If you create a wreck by committing murder (some percieved saction from a corporation you have decided is right in the greater struggle), that property is really, theoretically and sociologically, not yours to begin with.
Ninja Salvers are opportunistic thieves, stealing from mercenary style bounty hunters of a mind set who think they are doing the right thing and have the psycological belief that they own what they take by force.
Isn't there a mental word for that?
Interesting.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:36:00 -
[256]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
About your stupidity? No. I am never mad that others are inferior. The only thing that bothered me in this whole thread is when you lied about being a PhD and a professor. My friends who do have such positions would never stoop to being insolent and are literally incapable of showing the level of wanton stupidity you have shown. But the nine and possibly more pages of you proving yourself to be a liar have made it better.
Lol you go with your bad self
Only one problem..I know reading is hard but if you sound it out and try again you will find that I said no such thing.That was Amarraz.
Again..read the flippin thread before trying to look smart.Here I'll quote it for you.
Originally by: Amarraz I have a Ph.D. and am a professor, so I'm not especially dumb.
Corrected it minutes before you posted. So yawn. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:36:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 24/04/2011 12:22:45
Originally by: HeIIfire11 For the fith time..reread the thread.
Yes, please do. You'll quickly notice that, contrary to what you claimed, you didn't address any of HI's points on page 1. Quote:
Reread my post again I didn't say I addressed his issues on page one.I said I addressed them in this thread.
The rest is troll food and you can keep it.Its all been said.And the whole topic is about ninja salvaging so don't start being stupider than you look.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:38:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
About your stupidity? No. I am never mad that others are inferior. The only thing that bothered me in this whole thread is when you lied about being a PhD and a professor. My friends who do have such positions would never stoop to being insolent and are literally incapable of showing the level of wanton stupidity you have shown. But the nine and possibly more pages of you proving yourself to be a liar have made it better.
Lol you go with your bad self
Only one problem..I know reading is hard but if you sound it out and try again you will find that I said no such thing.That was Amarraz.
Again..read the flippin thread before trying to look smart.Here I'll quote it for you.
Originally by: Amarraz I have a Ph.D. and am a professor, so I'm not especially dumb.
Corrected it minutes before you posted. So yawn.
Too bad that I was faster and quoted it.So keep yawning
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:58:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/04/2011 13:02:26
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Reread my post again I didn't say I addressed his issues on page one.I said I addressed them in this thread.
àwhich you haven't done.
Your points in the thread up to that point:- Empty wrecks should turn blue.
- You should be able to scan wrecks.
- Ninjas are griefers.
- Shoot the wrecks to counter-grief.
- EVE is a sandbox, not a PvP game.
- CCP's stated reward structures are not the actual reward structures.
- Technical limitations are design flaws.
- Salvaging is risk-free.
- You can't roam for salvage.
- Mission-running is risky.
- Ninjas should be flagged.
- Mission rewards do not cover the risk of ship loss.
- Salvaging is really risky for mission runners, but not for salvagers.
- L4s pay too little.
- Missions are boring.
- Riskier activities pay more.
- Flagging ninjas would create combat opportunities.
- Ninjas are easy to kill.
- Dev statements on salvaging are not relevant in a salvaging discussion.
HI's points that were somehow addressed by all of that:- Ninja salvaging isn't effortless.
- Fun is subjective.
- Players don't create wrecks.
- Players can defend wrecks.
- CCP's game ù CCP's rules.
àehhhmmmà So yeah, you've not really addressed any of those points. The closest match is that you say salvaging is risk-free (but also very risky) and HI saying that salvaging isn't effortless.
However, I do see quite a few of those tautologies and insults HI mentioned, in addition to pure inaccuracies, contradictions and ignorance of basic game mechanics. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Rad Lalaxen
Death Incarnate INC
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Posted - 2011.04.24 13:47:00 -
[260]
Wow, nice summing up, Tippia. I was going to take over that job. Well, here goes anyway.
A TL;DR for the thread:
Entitled Missioner: WAHHH!
Patient Non-idiot: Um, you're wrong *logical arguments why*
Entitled Missioner: BUT WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
Patient Non-idiot: You're still wrong, here's why again, in detail, just so you can see my point.
Entitled Missioner: FRCKYOUUUUFRCKING EVERYTHING SHOUD BE MYWAY OR ITSWRONG QWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Patient Non-idiot: If you wish to have a logical argument, I will remain patiently not an idiot. Have a nice day.
Entitled Missioner: *gun barrel in mouth*
And there was much rejoicing....
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.24 14:33:00 -
[261]
Coming late to the party, and ignoring some ad hominem attacks...
Originally by: Neoexecutor
Quote: The salvage isn't yours until you've earned it. You earn it by salvaging the wreck. Creating the wreck means you've earned the bounty & loot that comes with the wreck.
Same way you can argue that if i don't take my loot in time it's ok to ninja that too without a flag. Loot isn't mine till i took it into my cargohold. But stealing loot does flag you, while salvaging a wreck doesn't. Running a salvage module on a wreck is as much formality as opening cargo hold of a wreck and pulling the loot into your ship's cargo hold. But no no no, CCP says that this wreck doesn't belong to me, so it must be right. I don't think so.
So, umm, there are two ways to look at this. There's the RP question, which is where the sense of entitlement probably comes from. Then there's the meta-game issue. On the latter front, at the end of the day what you think about this game mechanic is fairly unimportant. The only vote that counts is CCP's vote, and CCP likes EVE Online to be a player versus player sandbox kind of game. They make some rules, and we live within them. If they find a rule is broken, they fix it. They have, however, said repeatedly that this rule is not broken, that all game mechanics are working as CCP intends. (If I had to bet, I'd say that someone at CCP harvests these carebear tears and treasures them. ) If you don't like that, Hello Kitty Online is that way... (No, seriously. If this is a deal-breaker for you, the deal is broken, because CCP is clearly not going to change the game mechanic. These complaints have been around for years with no action on their part. One more carebear complaining about the unfairness of it all isn't going to make a difference. 100 more carebears complaining won't, either...)
Originally by: Neoexecutor
Quote: No. I believe that the creation of the wreck is already compensated for through the bounty and the loot. I also believe you need to argue the case that you somehow need to be paid more.
Oh i'm sorry i missed the memo that says "don't you dare to desire that salvage from the wrecks you'll be creating". It goes without saying man, i shoot ships down, put effort into it, and i feel entitled to that salvage as long as i am willing to do the actual salvaging. Problem is that, it's hard to do while i'm busy shooting ships and this dude here salvaging with impunity.
Regarding you getting the salvage while you're running a mission: skill up for a marauder. (You're Caldari, so you'll probably want a Golem.) Then you can run tractors and salvagers while you shoot stuff. Just bear in mind that nothing screams "carebear with a sense of entitlement" like a marauder, and they're (intentionally? I wonder...) really easy to probe down. Could be you'll see more ninjas, not less.
As for the earnings question that some have raised, I think when my main was doing some ninja salvaging he was earning around 10M isk/hr. He can easily earn several times that running L4 missions. Recently I took another look at this question from the mission runner's point of view, and salvaging has dropped in price to the point that it's no longer worth doing for a mission runner, as it really does decrease isk/hr. To maximize his isk/hr, blitzing missions (pop triggers, kill the boss rat, scoop the mission item if any, and go home) in a gankfit BS with a loltank is now the way to go.
In re your final crack regarding opportunity cost, do you understand how it works? If activity A nets you X isk per hour, and activity B nets Y isk per hour, and your goal at the end of the day is to maximize isk per hour, you pick the activity with the highest isk per hour. Simple, no?
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Leeluvv
The Black Ops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 14:40:00 -
[262]
Posting in another 'I don't agree with CCP's stated game mechanics thread'.
I want to fit Artillery ammo into my Pulse lasers and I'm sure I could make lots of opinionated comments on why I believe it should be allowed; however, it is my opinion and conflicts with CCP's stated game mechanics, so anything I post is a waste of my time and a waste of everyone else's time reading or replying.
Originally by: Doctor Mabuse A wife is just a T2 GF. They're more expensive and their resists are higher
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 15:38:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Tippia Your points in the thread up to that point:.
One last time I will address all your arguments.
- Empty wrecks should turn blue.
This was not my suggestion but I did agree that it would be one way to solve the confusion.
- You should be able to scan wrecks.
Yes you should since CCP said it's a mini profession where people can roam and salvage wrecks.The salvagers are not roaming but scanning down mission runners to grief them,since according to you and a few others salvage is worth as good as nothing,this must be the goal.Griefing mission runners.
- Ninjas are griefers.
See above.
- Shoot the wrecks to counter-grief.
Smacktalk and a work-around to counter bad game design.
- EVE is a sandbox, not a PvP game.
Again if you're going to quote me,quote me correctly.I didn't say it wasn't a PVP game.I said it was a sandbox which does not limit it to PVP.There's more to eve than just PVP,combat or non combat PVP.
- CCP's stated reward structures are not the actual reward structures.
Stated reward structures are poorly balanced,which is my opinion.
- Technical limitations are design flaws.
Technical limitations which you cant prove exist,until then they remain design flaws in my opinion.
- Salvaging is risk-free.
Salvaging is risk free because the salvager is protected by concord if I choose to try and stop him.
- You can't roam for salvage.
I didn't say that,I said that I don't see scanning down mission runners as roaming for salvage.The intended goal is not the "worthless" salvage but to annoy the mission runner in most cases.
- Mission-running is risky.
More risky than sitting outside a station in a cheap ship and scanning down mission runners to salvage wrecks under the protection of concord.Even should the salvager lose his ship,the costs are minimal compared to what a mission runner risks when he goes into a lvl 4 mission.
- Ninjas should be flagged.
Again my opinion yes.This would split the risk between the two parties even though the cost of whats at stake is far greater for the mission runner.
- Mission rewards do not cover the risk of ship loss.
They don't.Depending on how much time you have what you earn in a week is not enough to replace a ca. 700 million isk t2 battleship.The salvager on the other hand can replace his ship with one mission that he salvaged.
- Salvaging is really risky for mission runners, but not for salvagers.
This you'll have to show me.I said its risk free for the salvager yes,but I never said it was risky for the mission runner.
- L4s pay too little.
In my opinion yes they do.Not every one has all day to run missions.Missions have been nerfed so that you get the crappy ones more often.If I have three or four hours in the day after work(and thats a lot)I can come out with less than 5o million on some days.
- Missions are boring.
They are in my opinion.
- Riskier activities pay more.
Don't they?
- Flagging ninjas would create combat opportunities.
It would.Opportunities that a mission runner wouldn't be forced to take,but opportunities none the less.
- Ninjas are easy to kill.
Depending on the ship and the distance they warp in at yes they can be one shot killed if the mission runner has his skills sorted and his ship fit right.
- Dev statements on salvaging are not relevant in a salvaging discussion.
They don't address the issue with the wrecks being yellow and having the mission runners corp name on it which causes the disagreement.They also don't address why you can't warp to wrecks instead of players when the system is most likely full with blue wrecks that will be wasted in two hours time.If the wreck is no ones then anyone should be able to shoot the empty wreck.The salvager cant,nor can he tractor beam "my" wreck.Empty or not. Continued below...
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 15:42:00 -
[264]
Continued...
This is where you lost me.You say the following are points of his (HI) which were somehow addressed,yet below that you say they were not.I'll sum it up anyway.
Originally by: Tippia HI's points that were somehow addressed by all of that:
- Ninja salvaging isn't effortless.
I agree to a cirtain degree.It is a lot effortless than aquiring a 700 million isk mission ship,standing to access lvl 4 missions,looking the mission up online and last but not least,getting the mission done which produces the wrecks in the first place. The salvager can start a new character and in a week or two have all he needs to go salvage it.Compare that to the above and it is effortless yes.
- Fun is subjective.
I agree.
- Players don't create wrecks.
No player..no wreck.Its black and white and simple as that.
- Players can defend wrecks.
How? By shooting them? Thats not defending them,thats destroying them so no one gets them.No we can't defend them.
- CCP's game ù CCP's rules.
I agree.Doesn't mean I have to like them.This forum is to discuss eve and thats what I am doing.
Originally by: Tippia However, I do see quite a few of those tautologies and insults HI mentioned, in addition to pure inaccuracies, contradictions and ignorance of basic game mechanics.
I agree on the tautologies and insults but disagree on the inaccuracies, contradictions and ignorance of basic game mechanics.Those are your opinion because until you develope the game or work for ccp you have no more facts than I do.Just opinions which you try to beat into peoples head by repeating them over and over in ten different ways.Just like you do in every other thread in which you post.Sometimes you're right,but others you're wrong.But never...do you admit to being wrong or seeing another point of view.If Im lieing find a post and quote it. The tautologies and insults are for those who post without thinking or are limited to their one sided point of view or those who fail to troll properly.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 15:46:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Leeluvv Posting in another 'I don't agree with CCP's stated game mechanics thread'.
I want to fit Artillery ammo into my Pulse lasers and I'm sure I could make lots of opinionated comments on why I believe it should be allowed; however, it is my opinion and conflicts with CCP's stated game mechanics, so anything I post is a waste of my time and a waste of everyone else's time reading or replying.
Yet you read it and you did reply.Or maybe you didn't read it..I'm not sure which makes you look worse.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 16:21:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/04/2011 16:24:52
Originally by: HeIIfire11 You say the following are points of his (HI) which were somehow addressed,yet below that you say they were not.
No. You claimed that you had somehow addressed them; the list shows that, in fact, you had not. Thus: lie. And the list goes onà
Quote: I agree on the tautologies and insults but disagree on the inaccuracies, contradictions and ignorance of basic game mechanics.Those are your opinion because until you develope the game or work for ccp you have no more facts than I do.
It's not so much that I have more fact as that you blatantly contradict facts that both of us are fully aware of.
Quote: I didn't say it wasn't a PVP game.
Yes you did: In response to me calling it a PvP-centric game, you said ôNo,it's a sandbox.ö
Quote: I didn't say that [you can't roam for salvage]
Yes you did: ôThe player is scanned and not the wrecks which rules out roaming for wrecks lol.ö
Quote: Mission rewards do not cover the risk of ship loss.
Yes they do. The risk of ship loss in missions is nil. The income from missions is large. You'd have to lose a ship at least as often as every second storyline mission for them not to cover that minuscule risk, and guess what? No-one loses ships at that rate to such an simple and risk-free activity. If you do, it's not that the missions are risky ù it's that you're not ready for them or running them correctly.
This whole claim is trivially disproven by the fact that people are earning tons of money from L4s without going into the red through constant ship loss.
Quote: Salvaging is really risky for mission runners, but not for salvagers.
You said that by saying that it was unfair that there was no risk for the salvager ù an unfairness I questioned by asking ôwhy should he risk something when the competitor doesn't risk anything either?ö, to which you answered ôGod you're ignorantöà which can only mean that there is some immense risk for the mission runner (otherwise it wouldn't be unfair, nor would asking where the unfairness lies be ignorant).
àgranted, when asked, you chose not to specify what this huge risk was. Perhaps because no such risk actually exists?
Quote: [Dev statements on salvaging] don't address the issue with the wrecks being yellow and having the mission runners corp name on it which causes the disagreement.They also don't address why you can't warp to wrecks instead of players when the system is most likely full with blue wrecks that will be wasted in two hours time.
The problem is that you claim the quotes are worthless and that they don't ôaddress any of the topics mentioned in this thread.ö This is blatantly false. They address the the core topic of the thread ù just not your particular points. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
liquidsteal
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Posted - 2011.04.24 16:36:00 -
[267]
You know what is sad about a post like this? [and there are many many many]Its the Loosers with a capitol L that have nothing better to do in less than 1 day than flame the op with 9 pages of bull$hit,get a life.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.04.24 16:38:00 -
[268]
Originally by: liquidsteal You know what is sad about a post like this? [and there are many many many]Its the Loosers with a capitol L that have nothing better to do in less than 1 day than flame the op with 9 pages of bull$hit,get a life.
NO U!
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.24 16:41:00 -
[269]
Quickest fix in my opinion is to remove wreck/loot "ownership" altogether.
All wrecks "blue.". That simple fix would cure all supposed issues.
The concept that somehow a can or a wreck knows who created is irrational on it's face.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.04.24 16:53:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Quickest fix in my opinion is to remove wreck/loot "ownership" altogether.
All wrecks "blue.". That simple fix would cure all supposed issues.
The concept that somehow a can or a wreck knows who created is irrational on it's face.
This is how it was originally and carebears cried that people were able to steal their loot with no repercussions. Look what happened when they introduced can ownership and flipping aggression
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