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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.01 07:24:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: cosmoray
2. I didn't see the notice on the site saying you need to be 21 to enter and gamble. It is illegal in the US to gamble under 21.
Can't see such a notice on Zynga on Facebook either for that matter, and I would suggest they are a far higher profile monopoly money gambling site.
Still irrelevant Cosmo..
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Brynj Spirum
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Posted - 2011.05.01 08:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Gambling is illegal BUT as pointed out by sites like PokerStar, US Players are restricted to playing with play money. This is play money
How long before a lawyer finds a case of someone getting bankrupt to gambling addiction because he'd keep compulsively buying GTCs => PLEXes to turn in this play money?
So, who do they sue in this case? The gambling website that makes no monetary gain, or CCP which has no affiliation to the casino? Without proving CCP had firsthand knowledge a user was buying GTC for the explicit purpose of gambling, well, good luck with that.
PS
Lawsuits involving gambling losses usually involve players gambling while impaired and the casino not doing anything about it. and frankly, anyone getting a 'rush' with gambling fake money, the addiction kind of rush, is going to move onto the real thing for the real thrill. Someone would have to be REALLY messed up to value their space money from the future more than the everyday real life stuff.
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.01 08:07:00 -
[63]
Bravo!
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Graic Valente
Gallente
Valente Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.05.01 09:07:00 -
[64]
Wow. That's one big end game.
Good luck everyone.
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Arancar Australis
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:01:00 -
[65]
Please reserve 1 share, ISK sent.
Thanks!!
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:14:00 -
[66]
Best way for CCP to get in trouble if a person under the age of 21 purchases PLEX'es to gamble online. The line between legal/illegal could become very fuzzy. Plenty of US lawyers would happily go against CCP.
This is also reason a ban is likely.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:18:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Moto Akimoto
Btw, the ticker is "DBLDW", correct?
Yes correct ticker Moto.
1 minute after creating my post brock said
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Holy ****, 1 trillion?
3 minutes after creating my post brock said
Originally by: Brock Nelson
5 shares for me
12 minutes after creating my post brock said
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Actually cancel my reservation please
A couple minutes later he called me a scammer and block me from the SCC lounge. He was so busy mashing the reply button he never even read my IPO info. His later 'questions' are nothing more than trolling. I will not respond to him.
Originally by: egola
put me down for 10 shares
She changed her mind a couple minutes later.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
You have no assets to speak of, nothing that can be locked down, and no proof that your income or cash reserves are what you stated.
Good job captain obvious. My IPO clearly states that the corp is nothing more than a shell corp and contains no assets. Clearly you didn't bother reading that part. My previously linked Eve board profile clearly shows my cash reserves.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
API release to a known auditor would be (in my opinion) a necessary precondition to any further discussion here.
Chribba has been in receipt of my API key for a little over 4 months now. You can see the results of his audit here. I stated this above. You failed to perform any due dilligence on the information I already provided to you. If you are too stupid to follow the links and do the reading I cannot help you.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
Historically, EVE casinos and betting-related offerings have either closed because of potential exploits, failed because of operator incompetence, or been shown to be outright scams.
This is a distortion of the truth. SOME eve casinos have been frauds. You are making the argument that ALL of them have been. This is a lie. Blink is running successfully. Selene is also running a successful organization. So am I. Of course you conveniently skipped over the successful operations because they didn't support your straw man argument. Good job.
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
..With such a successful casino the only reason for scam would be for lulz. One trillion ISK would be lulz.
Actually there are many reasons. Not everyone is out to scam.
Originally by: Dagon Sirius
Originally by: RAW23
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit.
How was the existence of that assets an advantage to investors when BB just walked away with them?
Precisely. The scammers lul the sheep into thinking their investments are secure as they run off with their cash. Amazing how ignorant RAW23 is. Kudos to you Dagon for pointing out what should have been obvious long ago to everyone else.
Originally by: cosmoray
[Hai guis. i'm a degen gambler who lost all my investors money then fabricated a scam story so I wouldn't look like a complete tool. I would like to extend my 15 minutes by a few more. Can someone send me some moniez so I can go play poker?]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Posting to confirm Edwin is an *******...
Sorry Candy.
Thanks to everyone who has sent money for shares. We are roughly half way there. Not bad for 12 hours. I have updated post #7 with the names and number of shares for each investor. If I missed anyone or made a mistake on the list please let me know.
response
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:20:00 -
[68]
Lawsuits ...? Race against time ...? Seriously?
How long has EOH been running for now?
There are plenty of problems with this offering but this is on a par with the generic possibility that CCP could nerf anything.
Btw, the moment the government considers this to be real gambling because there could be plex involved you scammers are going to be in real trouble.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:34:00 -
[69]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 10:35:30
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Dagon Sirius
Originally by: RAW23
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit.
How was the existence of that assets an advantage to investors when BB just walked away with them?
Precisely. The scammers lul the sheep into thinking their investments are secure as they run off with their cash. Amazing how ignorant RAW23 is. Kudos to you Dagon for pointing out what should have been obvious long ago to everyone else.
You miss the point in a surprisingly aggressive and complete way. The comparison to T4U was yours and it was a comparison to T4U as a viable, running business that people were investing in, not T4U as a scam (people weren't willing to accept 1% returns on a scam but on a business), so a reply in terms of T4U as a scam in completely inappropriate. T4U, or any business backed with assets, gives the shareholders a share in the ownership of those assets (this share can then be scammed but that's a different point entirely). If the business simply ceases to operate (without scamming), investors will get their initial stake back, or some proportion of said stake corresponding to the current market value of the assets. If the market for the finished products dries up the capital can almost always be recouped at close to its initial value for any asset backed business. Investors are, therefore, in a position where they know that if they do not get scammed, they will receive most of their initialinvestment back upon shutdown. That is not the case here. You have given some outlines of what will happen if you sell the business but have given no guarantees that you will not simply stop running it. You have said you don't intend to stop but have not put in place any system for investors to recover their investments if you do stop tohe day after launch. Investors in this offering could lose the whole investment without a scam and that marks this out as a rather different kettle of fish to T4U.
So, please clarify the situation. Is this analysis correct or will investors be covered in some way if you decide to stop playing eve or stop running the casino before the initial stakes have been paid out in dividends?
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:35:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Btw, the moment the government considers this to be real gambling because there could be plex involved you scammers are going to be in real trouble.
All you got through plex, is a month of gametime. You cannot transfer it into real money legaly, so there is no "real gambleing". And it looks like you havnt understood the princip of gamble.
Some ppl loose, some ppl win, at the end there should be a little gap left for the bank. In the end from your point of view an insurance is also a scammer ^^ (you just bet on different events)
Roadrunner's Lottery - Choose your odds; NOT another "ticked-based" lotto - No need to wait for others. |
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:36:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Alex Stokes
Quote:
Btw, the moment the government considers this to be real gambling because there could be plex involved you scammers are going to be in real trouble.
All you got through plex, is a month of gametime. You cannot transfer it into real money legaly, so there is no "real gambleing". And it looks like you havnt understood the princip of gamble.
Some ppl loose, some ppl win, at the end there should be a little gap left for the bank. In the end from your point of view an insurance is also a scammer ^^ (you just bet on different events)
Suggest you read up and locate my comments in their context before responding to them.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Chribba has been in receipt of my API key for a little over 4 months now. You can see the results of his audit here. I stated this above. You failed to perform any due dilligence on the information I already provided to you. If you are too stupid to follow the links and do the reading I cannot help you.
What's with all the attitude, btw? You're clearly taking the **** as you know that a link to eve-board is not an api audit by Chribba. For a start, there is no way of verifying your profitability from that, only that you have x amount in your wallet. You claim that this is profit but there is no way of knowing whether you have received it from some other source.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.01 11:31:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 01/05/2011 11:31:10
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Chribba has been in receipt of my API key for a little over 4 months now. You can see the results of his audit here.
I CBA to go find the exact post but Chribba stated he was not an auditor.
In addition to that, the provided link does not point to an audit.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 11:39:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
Where are these deposits currently held?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The casino has been cash positive each of the 17 weeks since it opened. Over its lifetime the casino has generated a net profit of 1.15 billion ISK per day. To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK. Daily profits are growing steadily.
Do you have more detailed historical figures? Can those be made public?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
A 3rd party audit would just confirm information that I've already made publicly available.
The chief objective of a 3rd party audit is to confirm claims made by the auditee.
I do not understand why the words "would just confirm" appear in this quote rather than the words "has confirmed" or "will shortly confirm". Can you please explain this further?
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:03:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
These two quotes appear to contradict eachother. Can you please clarify?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The casino has a long-term mathematical edge on the games
Can you provide figures? What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:12:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Where are these deposits currently held?
www.rothbards.com/stats Players balances currently total about 1.9b isk. I hold that isk in my wallet. The rest of the 330b+ in deposits have since been withdrawn, converted into prizes, or lost from wagering. 1.9b is the casino's total liability to the players. I do realize I should have added this 1.9b to my liabilities in my IPO documentation.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Do you have more detailed historical figures? Can those be made public?
Most certainly. I keep extremely detailed records of everything I do. All of the weekly report data is stored in a database. I actually meant to provide a google docs that listed the dates and the dividend payments. As you can see my initial 5 posts of information provided to the public I forgot to include that data. I will see if I can cull the data into a google docs spreadsheet, set it to public and provide the link in this thread today.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I do not understand why the words "would just confirm" appear in this quote rather than the words "has confirmed" or "will shortly confirm". Can you please explain this further?
Sorry I will try to be more clear. From my understanding the API can only pull wallet entries back a couple of weeks. Thus there's no way for an auditor to confirm or deny the first 15 weeks of my data. It would show, however, exactly what I have in my wallet. You can already see this though on my eve board profile. Yesterday morning I had roughly 117b isk in my wallet. An auditor isn't going to add anything on that issue.
Auditors also call player to player wallet transfers suspect. Please realize that this is precisely how the casino operates. Players send money from their wallet to mine. The API then deposits that money into their casino account on the website. Cash and prizes redeemed are then sent by me back to players in game. My wallet is page after page after of player to player deposits and cashouts every single day.
My daily wallet balance from december 27th 2010 today is on Chribba's site. I'm perfectly ok with Chribba handing out all of the data points for my daily wallet balance from the day I signed up to today. On December 27th I had approx. 8.4b isk in my wallet iirc. I didn't go from 8.4b to 117b by accident. The trolls will never accept those are proceeds from the casino. After an auditor confirmed that there are various wallet transactions the trolls would just then say "BUT HOW WE KNOW THOSE AREN'T HIS ALTS??????" It's an argument I cannot win.
Sure I _could_ have bought approx 2x GTCs every single day since December 27th, and then used an army of alts to slowly deposit that money into my wallet over a 4-month period. No doubt some idiot like RAW23 would conclude just that. I hope everyone else realizes how silly such a plan would be. Further what would be the point of it? I Buy 110b in GTCs to wait 4 months and then scam 20b on the forums? I noticed BB made an appearance in this thread. Maybe ask him how solid of a scam idea that is since he's an expert on the subject.
There's already a huge amount of due diligence the public can perform. The links to my trade company spreadsheets are in the thread. You can cross reference this data with my completed contracts in game. You join the casino chat channel and see how it operates and see what players have to say about the casino. You can comb through my casino thread in the sell order forums with the 300+ replies from DIFFERENT people.
You could create a casino account and check it out for yourself to help determine whether you believe players actually play. You could closely look at the data for all 6 of my characters on Eve board. You could search each and everyone of my forum posts on Eve-search. Yet people like brock just want to spam the reply button and yell "SCAM!"
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Brynj Spirum
anyone getting a 'rush' with gambling fake money, the addiction kind of rush, is going to move onto the real thing for the real thrill. Someone would have to be REALLY messed up to value their space money from the future more than the everyday real life stuff.
As a matter of fact addicts are messed up in the first place.
When it comes to losing money by system it doesn't really matter where you lose it. You lose it on average in the long run. And right there is the "thrill": "I can outsmart the system because I'm lucky!" - Well, most can't.
In some way investing is exactly like that.
My 5 cents: An empty "About Us" page is just not good enough to win my trust: http://rothbards.com/aboutus |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:18:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
My 5 cents: An empty "About Us" page is just not good enough to win my trust: http://rothbards.com/aboutus
I added that page more than a month ago. I haven't added anything to it yet because i'm still torn whether I want to put RL stuff on that page for us or if I wish to put RP stuff there. I haven't decided and thus it's still blank. Players are far less interested in my professional work career than they are in whether the limits have been increased at the blackjack tables.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:25:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
These two quotes appear to contradict eachother. Can you please clarify?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The casino has a long-term mathematical edge on the games
Can you provide figures? What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
You don't seem to understand how a casino operates. Has no one here ever been to Las Vegas? 330b is how much players have deposited total. They have lost 143b of that 330b. That's 143b is my profit. Of the the money they didn't lose I hold about 2b of that in the player accounts. The remainder of the money has been cashed out of the casino in the form of isk and/or prizes.
I have a degree in mathematics; that's my qualification. The EV for the games is nearly spot on with the actual values. The house edge on blacjkack, for example, is 0.15% for a player who uses basic strategy and declines insurance. I have automated reports that check actual vs expected for each of the games. They are working as intended.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:54:00 -
[80]
1B sent
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:04:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 01/05/2011 13:05:40
Originally by: cosmoray
2. I didn't see the notice on the site saying you need to be 21 to enter and gamble. It is illegal in the US to gamble under 21.
I didn't really notice this until now. This information is partially wrong. Age limits vary by states from 18 to 21.
http://www.worldcasinodirectory.com/gambling_age_chart.htm
edit: due to the underscores, you will probably have to copy paste it to work.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:19:00 -
[82]
Thank you for your answers so far.
I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion about what constitutes public funds. I will not labour the point as you have provided the information I was seeking.
Can you provide historical and maximum figures for your player account balance? That is to say the historical total of public money you have held within the casino and the maximum level that has reached?
Can you also provide the historical and maximum figures for your loan business?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you provide figures? What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
You don't seem to understand how a casino operates. Has no one here ever been to Las Vegas? 330b is how much players have deposited total. They have lost 143b of that 330b. That's 143b is my profit. Of the the money they didn't lose I hold about 2b of that in the player accounts. The remainder of the money has been cashed out of the casino in the form of isk and/or prizes.
I have a degree in mathematics; that's my qualification. The EV for the games is nearly spot on with the actual values. The house edge on blacjkack, for example, is 0.15% for a player who uses basic strategy and declines insurance. I have automated reports that check actual vs expected for each of the games. They are working as intended.
I am not seeking clarification on whether I understand how a casino operates.
Will you be able to provide me with the percentages I requested?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:20:00 -
[83]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 13:23:14
Name calling: check.
Evading questions: check.
Attacking strawmen: check.
All fine qualities for someone asking for public funds.
Just in case you genuinely didn't understand the points I made and the question I asked, I'll rephrase.
1) If you choose to stop playing or stop running the casino without selling it, will the investors receive any of their investment back? You haven't asnwered this question but it seems to me to be an important one. If not, then the point I made in my first post stands: in order for an investor to make any profit on this investment the business will either have to be sold at some point (for a price that is at least equivalent to the 1 tril valuation minus any dividends paid before that point) or it will have to run for several years to first break even, with only the subsequent dividends counting as profit, before closing down without a payout. Alternatively, investors will earn some dividends and then sell the shares but this just moves the issue onto the new purchaser. Running for several years and finding a buyer both seem like reasonable possible outcomes but as it stands there is a significant gap in your offering in that you do not cover what happens if neither of these eventualities come to pass, which is also a reasonable possible outcome.
2) Whilst your eveboard wallet balance is not an insignificant piece of data, claiming that it represents any kind of audit is disingenuous. I can fully believe the profit picture that you present as people in eve like to gamble. However, there are numerous other potential ingame sources for the isk and eveboard gives no information at all as to which it may have come from (GTCs are one but, despite you putting such an argument into my mouth, I would agree a very unlikely one). You appear to confuse my making this point with me taking a stance that would reject any further confirmation, even if it wasn't water-tight. That some people would still think that all the wallet transactions came from alts is really a bad reason to not provide additional data for those who would not make such a claim.
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:30:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Alex Stokes on 01/05/2011 13:32:23
@RAW: Done. But I dont see that something changed, even with context :-P |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:33:00 -
[85]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 13:33:55
Originally by: Alex Stokes
Done.But I dont see that the point changed, even with context :-P
The point I was making was pretty much the same as yours. The connection to scamming was thrown in because I found it funny that Cosmo was making an argument that relied on the authorities treating ingame assets as equivalent to real assets, as this would make him a real thief. |
Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:34:00 -
[86]
Are there any plans to make the site IGB-friendly? I think this will increase its long-term success.
e.g.
- use IGB for registrations: gather character name from headers, generate password directly in the browser, remove the need for external email/sign-up
- automate adding of funds: e.g. a showInfo() pop on the recipient, or if CCP ever get to implementing a giveMoney()
- anything else that streamlines the casino without the player needing to leave game. |
Chakirari
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:44:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Are there any plans to make the site IGB-friendly? I think this will increase its long-term success.
e.g.
- use IGB for registrations: gather character name from headers, generate password directly in the browser, remove the need for external email/sign-up
- automate adding of funds: e.g. a showInfo() pop on the recipient, or if CCP ever get to implementing a giveMoney()
- anything else that streamlines the casino without the player needing to leave game.
I think not needing an email would be a good idea.
Either way, isk sent.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
From my understanding the API can only pull wallet entries back a couple of weeks. Thus there's no way for an auditor to confirm or deny the first 15 weeks of my data.
I understand the limited window provided by the API. I would still like to know what is contained within that window.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
It would show, however, exactly what I have in my wallet. You can already see this though on my eve board profile. Yesterday morning I had roughly 117b isk in my wallet. An auditor isn't going to add anything on that issue.
If you are running a business that involves money going back and forth then the auditor will be able to confirm that within the limits of what is possible with the API.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
My wallet is page after page after of player to player deposits and cashouts every single day.
Excellent. I would like to see this confirmed to the limit of what is possible with the API.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The trolls will never accept those are proceeds from the casino. After an auditor confirmed that there are various wallet transactions the trolls would just then say "BUT HOW WE KNOW THOSE AREN'T HIS ALTS??????" It's an argument I cannot win.
I am not concerned about any argument you may or may not be winning with "the trolls". Your API contains information and that information will either be consistent with what I would expect to see from a running casino or it will not.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
No doubt some idiot like RAW23 would conclude just that.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I noticed BB made an appearance in this thread. Maybe ask him how solid of a scam idea that is since he's an expert on the subject.
I do not really care what either of these people think unless they have your API key.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
There's already a huge amount of due diligence the public can perform.
I agree. Asking these questions is a key part of that.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 14:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Thank you for your answers so far.
yw
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion about what constitutes public funds.
If a player deposits money it goes into their casino account it is still their money. I am merely holding it for them. If they then wager that money at the blackjack tables and lose it's now my money. It's no longer public funds if they wager and lose.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you provide historical and maximum figures for your player account balance? That is to say the historical total of public money you have held within the casino and the maximum level that has reached?
My guess is that intraday there have been times where the balance has been maybe as high as 5b or so. That figure varies a lot especially at busy times of the day and even more so if there are a number high stakes players at the tables.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you also provide the historical and maximum figures for your loan business?
I think the most i've had out concurrently for loans is approx 3b. To be clear that was me lending other pilots 3b isk spread across a number of collateralized loans. My loans are over collateralized as I only deal with high quality collateral and I only offer 75% LTV. I have never had a default.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
I guess this question is not at all clear to me. Do you want the EV vs actual value for each of the games with a breakdown for each? I've already stated that it's working as intended. Can you explain why it is you need this data beyond what i've already provided?
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.01 14:41:00 -
[90]
Quote:
There's already a huge amount of due diligence the public can perform
Varo Jan issued a vastly smaller IPO ("just" 150B or so) and he self-submitted himself to extensive auditing, created GAAP compliant statements.
Auditor was Magnu Stormhawk iirc and made a very fine job.
This IPO is the start of something going to be tenfold and - unlike Varo Jan's research service - is completely made of goodwill assets.
One would expect a cashflow statement at minimum.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
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