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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:40:00 -
[1]
Rothbard's Casino is going public!
tl;dr
Send Edwin ISK. get casino shares. profit!
Introduction:
Rothbard's Casino launched on December 27th 2010. The casino offers a variety of games including Matari Pick'em, Can Flip, Blackjack "21", and the Mega Billions Lottery. The casino has enjoyed great success in the 4 months since opening its door. To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
The casino has earned a stellar reputation for honesty and customer service. The casino has grown steadily since inception and both player sign ups and growth are accelerating. To date Rothbard's Casino has been a privately held company. Now is your chance to own part of a premiere investment in Eve!
Corporate Structure:
Rothbard's Casino operates at www.rothbards.com. Players create an account on the website and fund their account by sending ISK in game to me, Edwin Rothbard. Gamers can then play at the casino using the in game browser (IGB) as well as out of game browsers. They can redeem prizes and cash from the casino which is then sent to them in game.
Rothbard's Casino corp in game is a shell corp. It has no assets and at present has only 1 corp member, Sub Account B. The corp has issued a total of 10,000 shares. Note that in game the corp info window says there are only 9,000 shares. This is a bug and I've petitioned about it. CCP states they are aware of the bug. They did not give me an ETA on a fix. Dividends are funneled through the Rothbard's Casino corp and flow to its shareholders.
Dividends:
The corp pays dividends weekly. The payments are generally sent late Wednesday into early Thursday Eve time. Currently there are only two shareholders in the corp. I own 7,500 of the corp shares and Zeeawk owns the other 2,500 shares. The casino has been cash positive each of the 17 weeks since it opened. Over its lifetime the casino has generated a net profit of 1.15 billion ISK per day. To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK. Daily profits are growing steadily.
Share pricing:
Shares will be offered at 100m each. There are 10,000 shares total in the Rothbard's Casino corp. Today I am offering 200 of those share for sale. Investors in my previous three public offerings are given preference. Similar to my earlier offerings there is a maximum purchase of 10 shares per investor. If you are found to be purchasing IPO shares with an alt any ISK you sent for share purchases will be returned to you.
This does not preclude you however from acquiring shares in the secondary market. This restriction is in place to give smaller investors a chance at acquiring shares without being crowded out by the fat-cat capitalists.
I will likely give some of my shares away to friends. I will disclose publicly how many shares are given away and who the recipients are. Friendship has its rewards.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:42:00 -
[2]
Expected returns:
With 10k shares priced at 100m per share on net revenues of 1.15b ISK per day the monthly dividend yield is 3.50%/month. This is somewhat of a conservative estimate since revenues in the early days of the casino's existence were much lower than revenues in recent weeks.
Assuming there are no negative events the monthly dividend yield will likely rise. Further there should be substantial potential for returns through increases in the stock price. These two coupled together should make for a solid long term investment.
The casino has a long-term mathematical edge on the games; however, the volatility can be very high from day to day and in the short run anything can happen. While the casino has never suffered a week with negative earnings, it is quite possible.
The casino uses a running journal to calculate profits. This means we use lifetime figures to derive our numbers. We use the following methodology:
+cash deposits
-cash withdrawals
-player balances
-prize withdrawal
+prize conversion
-misc expenses
-dividend payments
=free cash flow
The free cash number is what is distributed to shareholders weekly. The distributed amount is then added to the dividend payments total which zeros the free cash flow. The journal continues into the following week. Notice that player balances are never including as profits. Although their money is in the casino, itÆs still being held on their behalf.
On weeks where free cash flow is negative no dividends will be paid. This will not represent a loss to the underlying shareholder value but rather delayed earnings.
Investors should also note that I do not take any sort of management fee out of earnings. My income comes solely from dividend payments.
The casino also runs many promotions. Each player who signs up at the casino receives 1m ISK for creating an account. There are a myriad of other ways for players to earn freebies. These giveaways are deducted directly from earnings.
The casino also runs special events from time to time. On our three-month anniversary, for example, the casino sponsored a pvp event. The casino purchased and fitted 1b ISK worth of ships, gave them to casino patrons, which we quickly blew up in a nearby 0.0 system. These charges are added to the Misc. expenses on the profit report.
Strategic acquisitions are also taken against earnings.
Ownership:
I'm advertising this investment as equity. Please note equity [stock] ownership in Rothbard's Casino doesn't exactly mirror a RL company. This offering has some bond-like qualities to it as well. Since the casino website operates out of game it's not possible to secure this investment.
The corp is only a shell corp. It contains no assets. The corp is only used as a mechanism for distributing dividends to shareholders. Unlike in RL your shares of stock are not buying you any underlying assets. In this instance the shares should be considered a "right to dividend future dividend payments" and not much more.
If shareholders hold a vote and oust me (or my alt) from the corp, the shareholders will not gain control of the casino, the domain name, or the source code. They only gain control of the in game corporation which holds no assets.
This makes equity very different than RL equities. The shares are only a commitment to an income stream. There is nothing backing them besides my word. If I decided to simply stop sending dividend payments shareholders would hold little recourse to recover their losses. I mention this to be clear about the structure of this offering.
Your ownership of shares does not grant power to dictate how I run the casino. If the shareholders start a vote (and it passes) demanding that I make some change it will not be binding. If you don't like the management your best recourse is to liquidate your shares.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:44:00 -
[3]
Length of Investment:
I plan to run this in perpetuity. Like most RL corps I plan to run this for "the foreseeable future." I don't have any wind down or transfer plans because I'm not planning either. If/when I decide to make a change a public discussion will commence.
In the event that I sold the casino I would institute a share repurchase for all outstanding shares offering them the appropriate amount based on the share price. I would ensure current shareholders received their compensation before the new owner took control of the casino. It would then be up to the new owners whether they wanted to reissue shares.
Secondary Market:
Players who wish to buy or sell their shares can do so in this thread. Unfortunately there is no way to trade shares securely in game. If you wish, however, I will be happy to act as a 3rd party between buyers and sellers of Rothbard's Casino shares.
Please do not send shares unannounced. There are no wallet entries when you send or receive shares. If you send shares without notifying me first I have no way to tell who the shares came from. Please contact me in game if you would like me to act as a third party for your shares transaction.
You are not required to use me or this thread to trade casino shares. You are welcome to do that in private if you prefer. If you get defrauded by another party however I will not accept responsibility for your loss.
In addition when either Zeeawk or myself buy or sell shares it will be noted in this thread. It's often a warning sign when principle investors in a company start unloading their stock and this way it will help increase transparency in the corp. I will also maintain a google docs spreadsheet that will list total number of outstanding shares, the shareholder names, and the number of shares they each hold. This will likely only be done quarterly.
Dilution:
There will be no share dilution. I believe strongly in preserving shareholder value. Therefore if a vote is created to create new shares those new shares will be distributed to the existing shareholders. This means that whatever % of the casino you own you will always enjoy that amount of ownership.
Reporting:
I also believe strongly in transparency. I will maintain a google docs spreadsheet that will list each of the weekly dividend payments. I will probably only update this spreadsheet quarterly unless someone would like to take on that role. I will also probably put together a quarterly report for shareholder with a brief rundown of the state of affairs at the casino.
Risks:
Please note that expected returns listed above are by no means guaranteed. In the worst-case scenario your shares could drop to zero in value.
There are many risks to your investment. There are competitors in the gaming market and it's possible a current or future one will siphon off substantial numbers of customers. It's possible that the server could be rooted. The casino could suffer some permanently damaging public relations fiasco. Players could also find and exploit potential bugs.
CCP has long been touting their walking in stations. At this years fan fest they even alluded to their desire to bring gambling directly into Eve. It's possible that CCP will decide to internalize gambling and become "The" casino. It's not at all clear to me whether these in station casinos would be run by players or CCP.
Of course CCP has been talking about this for about as long as Eve has been around and at the rate they complete stuff it could be forever before we see. Also CCP are the guys who brought you ice mining and POS anchoring times thus it's quite possible they would blackjack about as boring as waiting for your freighter to align.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:46:00 -
[4]
Although it's possible that either Zeeawk or I could meet an untimely end, it's very unlikely that both of us will end up dead anytime soon. We live in different states and neither of us uses public transit so we should be relatively safe from the typical early-death scenarios.
There is zero risk of being scammed by me. Nevertheless you should strongly take trust into consideration before sending any ISK. Unfortunately there's no way to create scam-proof investments in Eve because of the weak game mechanics regarding corporate assets. Further, since Rothbard's Casino server operates outside of Eve there's absolutely no way to secure your investment.
I handle billions of ISK in transactions every single day. I have never had a single legitimate complaint from any of my 1,300+ customers that I scammed or defrauded them. In addition I do a lot of trading in game and although my stuff is expensive I've never once been accused of running a scam.
Further, I run a loan business where players send me their items at 25% under market value. They always receive their items back just as they sent them to me. Lastly, I have acted as a third party for many player-to-player transactions in game. All of these transactions have gone smoothly.
My best advice is if you don't trust the person you are sending your money to don't send the ISK.
About the owners:
Both Zeeawk and I started playing eve in 2004. You can check the corp histories for Zeeawk and my original Character Veronica SP to see our birth dates and common corp histories. We have both had long breaks from over the years. We've been friends for close to 20 years. We've been to each others houses. I attended his wedding. We currently reside in different states.
I'm the public face, customer service contact, and marketing person for the casino. Zeeawk is the technical person for Rothbard's. We are an effective team.
I control two Eve accounts.
account #1:
Edwin Rothbard, CEO & founder Interstellar Arbitrage [21m sp]
Sub Account B, CEO & founder Rothbard's Casino [zero sp]
Jasmine Vernora, CEO & founder Rothbards Casino [zero sp]
account #2:
Veronica SP, founder VSP Corp. [49m sp] (My original character)
Heather Cruise, Director VSP Corp. [zero sp]
Angelina Sparks, CEO EveOnline Casino [zero sp]
Zeeawk controls one account. Both of his alt are zero-skilled characters. I'll leave it up to him whether he would like the reveal those characters.
Neither of us controls accounts beyond the ones listed above. Neither of us has bought or sold characters.
Qualifications:
1) I own/operate Rothbard's Casino.
2) I engage in contract trading. google docs.
3) I run a collateralized loan business here.
I also have three previous public offerings:
5b [equity]
1b [bond]
100m [bond]
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Chakirari
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:47:00 -
[5]
I am not sure if this is you cashing out your rep, but I'll take a chance.
Reserve me 10 shares. I'll send the money later today.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:48:00 -
[6]
Auditing & verification of assets:
I have listed all 6 of my characters (links above) on eve board. I have a substantial liquidity position in addition to many illiquid assets. I have no outstanding debts. You can also check the contracting history for all 6 of my characters to cross referenced to the above linked spreadsheet to verify my in game trading business.
I invite you to review my casino, investment, and loan threads to see what others have to say about my various business concerns. A 3rd party audit would just confirm information that I've already made publicly available. My entire business model is predicated on trust from my customers.
Purchasing shares:
You may send your ISK to me, Edwin Rothbard, for share purchases at any time. Please donÆt put the words ôCasinoö and/or ôDepositö in your reason code otherwise your money will be deposited into your casino account!
Previous investors will be given priority on shares purchases. Each share costs 100m ISK. There is a maximum of 10 shares per investor. Pilots using alts to purchase shares will have their ISK returned.
The IPO will run for 1 week. If the IPO fails to attract 20b in total investment those who have already committed funds will be given the option to purchase the remaining shares. If all 20b in shares still fail to sell all ISK will be returned and no shares distributed. As soon as all shares are sold and ISK received the shares will be distributed in game. Interest payments will continue to be paid on late Wednesday or early Thursday each week.
FAQ:
This is just a big scam like T4U or Ebank right?
No. Both were relatively poor business models run by crooks. This is neither. At its height T4U had roughly 450b ISK in public investments and was generating "only" 150m ISK in profits per day. By comparison Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds and is generating 1.15b ISK per day.
Interestingly, pilots were accepting approx. 1%/month ROI on their T4U shares and purchased them to the tune of 450b ISK. Plus I'm not a crook. Ebank was paying higher dividends than T4U, but has numerous problems with its business structure. That coupled with the fact that it was massive fraud doesn't help any.
You have money, why are you borrowing more?
There are many reasons to borrow money. Being broke or scamming are typical reasons in Eve to borrow money. I'm not typical. I have other motivations.
What are you going to do with the money I send you?
This is another area where this venture differs from RL IPOs. Your money isn't going to the casino - It's going to me. I'm selling you some of my rights to future earnings. I get my earnings early while you will get your earnings later plus additional interest and share price appreciation.
Why don't you virtualize your shares?
I considered this. I could have made my own virtualized exchange, but that would distract me from running the casino. I also considered using one of the other virtualized exchanges, but decided against them for a number of reasons. There are upsides to virtual shares, but I prefer the in game shares+dividends.
10,000 shares x 100m share price is 1T ISK valuation. You are joking right?
No. People are buying T2 BPOs with negative rates or return for billions (or 10s of billions) of ISK. Others are buying T2 BPOs with ROIs of 2 or 3% per annum. I believe 3.5% ROI per month is reasonable. The 3.5% excludes any additional money realized from share price appreciation.
When the new forums return I will do my best to transfer the info in this thread to the new forums.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:50:00 -
[7]
reserved!
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:51:00 -
[8]
..ISK is going to be used for volatile casino business and to compensate for a growing user base?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 19:52:20
Holy ****, 1 trillion?
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:52:00 -
[10]
I will take 10 shares, Roth. Your work on screenshots is very impressive indeed.
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Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:52:00 -
[11]
I take 10 shares and reserve another 60 shares in case there are not enough investors showing up. |
Moto Akimoto
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:52:00 -
[12]
2 shares, please. Thanks, Edwin
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:53:00 -
[13]
5 shares for me
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:56:00 -
[14]
put me down for 10 shares
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: RAW23 on 30/04/2011 19:58:48
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit. In this case, investors' isk will be gone on day one of their investment and it will take three years for them to earn their initial capital back. If I understand this correctly, investors will effectively make nothing in the first three years and will then start to earn profits on their investment only after the break even point.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 20:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 20:03:00
Actually cancel my reservation please
 Quote:
The casino uses a running journal to calculate profits. This means we use lifetime figures to derive our numbers. We use the following methodology:
+cash deposits
-cash withdrawals
-player balances
-prize withdrawal
+prize conversion
-misc expenses
-dividend payments
=free cash flow
What kind of misc expenses?
Quote:
You have money, why are you borrowing more?
There are many reasons to borrow money. Being broke or scamming are typical reasons in Eve to borrow money. I'm not typical. I have other motivations.
So whats your motivation?
Quote:
10,000 shares x 100m share price is 1T ISK valuation. You are joking right?
No. People are buying T2 BPOs with negative rates or return for billions (or 10s of billions) of ISK. Others are buying T2 BPOs with ROIs of 2 or 3% per annum. I believe 3.5% ROI per month is reasonable. The 3.5% excludes any additional money realized from share price appreciation.
T2 BPO has nothing to do with how you value your IPO at 1 trillion.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 20:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 20:28:17
1. What happens if you get hit by the bus?
2. What happens if someone wins big?
3. Audit? Saying that your wallet size been on eveboard isn't enough to prove that you're actually making 1-2b per day.
4. T2 BPO may have bad return or negative return but at least you have a BPO.
5. Almost all Casino IPO/Bond has failed/scammed in the past, how is yours any different?
6. Whats your motivation? Making 2b in profit everyday and then all of sudden, you want shareholders?
7. This IPO is entirely based on trust and I think trust is a commonity that isn't worth much these days (see cosmoray, bad bobby, ricdic, etc)
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.04.30 20:33:00 -
[18]
This is interesting.
A 1T valuation for this is ludicrous. You have no assets to speak of, nothing that can be locked down, and no proof that your income or cash reserves are what you stated. API release to a known auditor would be (in my opinion) a necessary precondition to any further discussion here.
Historically, EVE casinos and betting-related offerings have either closed because of potential exploits, failed because of operator incompetence, or been shown to be outright scams. And those are just the ones I can remember.
These precedents, combined with the lack of any security whatsoever for your offering, leads me to conclude that it is at best on the level of a lowsec moon-mining operation.
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.04.30 20:34:00 -
[19]
I would like to reserve 10 shares, but I cannot send the isk until tomorrow.
Please advise if this is acceptable.
KV
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
I would like to reserve 10 shares, but I cannot send the isk until tomorrow.
Please advise if this is acceptable.
KV
Yes that should be fine.
I've already received 2.8b isk for shares in game. There are still 17.2b isk of shares available.
If all of the shares do not sell in 7 days I will refund everyone's money as stated above. I've also had a tremendous amount of interest in game. Thanks to everyone who has sent isk for their shares.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:06:00 -
[21]
..With such a successful casino the only reason for scam would be for lulz. One trillion ISK would be lulz.
I won't be investing in this, not because I think it's a scam, but because I never invest!
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:08:00 -
[22]
I don't think he's asking for 1 trillion, rather 20b (200 shares available at 100m each)
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 30/04/2011 21:15:48
I'll reserve 10 shares, will send ISK later today.
edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:25:00 -
[24]
..20b now, infamy later.
(And by infamy I mean trillions of ISK. And infamy.)
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Breaker77
edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.
Then again, how many people with 117b in their wallet ask for 20b?
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Saf Snafu
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:46:00 -
[26]
10 shares for me please... isk to be sent in the next 24 hrs if that's acceptable.
saf
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Breaker77
edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.
Then again, how many people with 117b in their wallet ask for 20b?
Why would someone run an offering when they can make 10 billion isk in a month running missions?
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Zeeawk
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Posted - 2011.04.30 21:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Breaker77
Why would someone run an offering when they can make 10 billion isk in a month running missions?
Missions are pretty boring. |
Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.04.30 22:00:00 -
[29]
You are running a cash cow and you need investment?
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velinqangi
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Posted - 2011.04.30 22:02:00 -
[30]
reserve me 5 shares thx ed.iskies on the way.
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Zamestian Han
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Posted - 2011.04.30 22:11:00 -
[31]
1b sent for 10 shares
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.04.30 22:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Breaker77
edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.
Then again, how many people with 117b in their wallet ask for 20b?
Why would someone run an offering when they can make 10 billion isk in a month running missions?
[/quote
..Dumbest post in the history of MD. Really Breaker? I mean really?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 22:15:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 22:15:28
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
Originally by: Breaker77
Why would someone run an offering when they can make 10 billion isk in a month running missions?
..Dumbest post in the history of MD. Really Breaker? I mean really?
Not really, he's describing precisely what I did over a year ago 
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Dagon Sirius
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Posted - 2011.04.30 22:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 30/04/2011 19:58:48
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit.
How was the existence of that assets an advantage to investors when BB just walked away with them? |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:04:00 -
[35]
What has happened to all the people who ask good questions? Or rip apart poor ones.
I mean anyone who earns in excess of 50B ISK a year in dividends has NO need of investment money.
You get money back after 3 yes?
Would you trust someone to keep the casino open with 1T ISK and 300B ISK in deposits burning a hole in their pocket.
This would make potential haul massive.
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Zeeawk
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:05:00 -
[36]
Well I figure since I own 25% of the shares right now, I might as well register on EveBoard too.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Zeeawk/progress
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Zeeawk
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:11:00 -
[37]
Originally by: cosmoray
I mean anyone who earns in excess of 50B ISK a year in dividends has NO need of investment money.
I think your math is wrong.
1.15B/day * 365 days is 419.75B/yr
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Saiph Industries
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:12:00 -
[38]
Looks neat, I'll hit you up ingame
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: cosmoray
This would make potential haul massive.
As opposed to your abortion of a scam?
Seriously Cosmo, you lost your relevancy some time ago. Why don't you just crawl back under your rock.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: cosmoray
What has happened to all the people who ask good questions? Or rip apart poor ones.
I mean anyone who earns in excess of 50B ISK a year in dividends has NO need of investment money.
You get money back after 3 yes?
Would you trust someone to keep the casino open with 1T ISK and 300B ISK in deposits burning a hole in their pocket.
This would make potential haul massive.
Pretty much this.
The more I'm reading in the investment threads the more I'm inclined to just leave people to their own folly. There are too many fools with too much Isk determined to give it away. There *are* decent investments out there, there *will* be decent investments in the future.
Hell, eveboard shows that Ed has 117B in his wallet. Nice. He has also stated that he is holding Isk in trust for those that participate in his casino and yet not a single person (including one auditor that has posted in this thread) has yet asked one of the more fundamental questions when it comes to assessing the potential/likelyhood of a scam.
How much "public" Isk is Ed currently holding in trust? Is that Isk held in a corp wallet or in his own?
The "MD Elite" may be dead but there is definitely a new breed forming and they will not be noticed until the current trend is reversed at which point envy will once again become the dominant coin of politics here.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:25:00 -
[41]
Don't discard someone's input just because they scammed. That doesn't disqualify them from being correct, just from ever getting investment with that character again.
In this case Cosmo echoes a valid point already made several times. If the OP is making 1.15B a day, why on earth would he need 20b? Because he's a nice guy and enjoys handing out money?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zeeawk
Originally by: cosmoray
I mean anyone who earns in excess of 50B ISK a year in dividends has NO need of investment money.
I think your math is wrong.
1.15B/day * 365 days is 419.75B/yr
Bolded the relevant part.
I noticed that both Zeeawk and Edwin still hasn't posted anything that resembles an answer to any question or concerns posted thus far.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:32:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Frenden Dax
Don't discard someone's input just because they scammed. That doesn't disqualify them from being correct, just from ever getting investment with that character again.
The fact that Cosmo's 'scam' left him virtually penniless shows a severe lack of judgement.
The fact he is reiterating others opinion's (as you yourself has said) doesn't make his opinion relevant, just .... sad.
Anything is a punt in this game, the fact that Ed is minimising potential buy ins is a factor in his favour. In my opinion, Ed is trying to build reputation using the only leverage he has.
So I might lose a Bil - who cares. I'd rather lose a bill than listen to Cosmo that's for sure, he can't even scam properly.
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
I noticed that both Zeeawk and Edwin still hasn't posted anything that resembles an answer to any question or concerns posted thus far.
Already noted, and I would like to hear a response from Edwin with regard to this. Doesn't mean I find Cosmo any more relevant though.
fake edit - fkn 2 minute timer!!
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Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.04.30 23:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Frenden Dax
If the OP is making 1.15B a day, why on earth would he need 20b? Because he's a nice guy and enjoys handing out money?
There are some reasons that could be true here i think:
1) A secondary market for his shares would value his casino and the majority of shares that he and his friend hold.
2) He likes running bonds and ipo stuff on MD. You will notice that 80-90% of valid MD offers that dont end in a scam are somewhat pointless. People do it for the fun of it.
3) People get involved in the casino (max.investment/person so more people can invest). A shareholder may tell someone faster about the casino.
4) It generates a platform for future share sales if his friend and himself want to start collecting Titans or whatever.
5) Because he's a nice guy and enjoys handing out money?
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.01 00:07:00 -
[46]
1 billion ISK sent
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.05.01 00:26:00 -
[47]
To be honest I don't think Ed would scam but I would still like to hear what his answers are to the questions posed.
And there is also the fact that Ed has.. a lot of shares left so while there is a possibility that the shares could appreciate, he could also sell them for less (for whatever reason, including lulz) and depreciate them as well.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:14:00 -
[48]
How about some subjective analysis. For those who want to see it read on, for those who think I have lost relevancy I would invest anyway.
Analysis of this casino/offering.
1. The rake(casino cut) is clearly too high. Pulling 1B + per day in ptofit will wipe out the player base funds too quickly. This could also cause people to grind missions and play the game just to fund their acquired gambling habits.
Rake in US casinos on slots is mainly 1%.
2. I didn't see the notice on the site saying you need to be 21 to enter and gamble. It is illegal in the US to gamble under 21.
3. Is CCP willing to risk a lawsuit in the US from a parent who'se kid first got addicted to gambling by playing Eve Online as a minor (or under 21). Lawyers don't care who or how many parties are at fault, they generally always go for the people/entities with the deepest pockets. A corporation is always more attractive than an individual.
4. There is no way CCP will not police this gambling site. You have just made public how much money is being gambled and lost daily. CCP will surely come and ban this. Again, do they want a bunch of lawsuits in the US, and have a potential internet portal closure due to online gambling?
IMO if you invest in this offering the risk is great that CCP will step in and ban gambling via the external site, which will lead to a total loss of investment.
This investment is a race vs. CCP. Earn as much as possible before CCP close it.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:18:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 01/05/2011 01:18:33
Gambling is illegal BUT as pointed out by sites like PokerStar, US Players are restricted to playing with play money. This is play money.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: cosmoray
for those who think I have lost relevancy I would invest anyway
Huh?
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:22:00 -
[51]
Posting to confirm Edwin is an ******* for not launching this when i was online & 1 day after i bought this months invention/production supplies -_-
i have no liquid isk :(
___
iCandy Bonds
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Dagon Sirius
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: cosmoray
3. Is CCP willing to risk a lawsuit in the US from a parent who'se kid first got addicted to gambling by playing Eve Online as a minor (or under 21).
Oh no, my kid lost 2 million ISK that i saved up for his Motsu College education!
Could you provide the screenshot of Edwin allowing Dollar deposits and cashouts please? Thank you. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:28:00 -
[53]
You still have to be 21 to play at Pokerstars.
Secondly the reason you can play with play money at Pokerstars is because gambling for real $$ on the internet is completely illegal in the US. Just see that the 3 major sites got closed last week by the Feds.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.01 01:34:00 -
[54]
Even if Edwin's casino suddenly got shutdown for any bizarre RL reason, it isn't his only line of income, the guy has his hands in every pie.
Ill reserve 1 share for now please. its all i have in personal liquid atm :(
___
iCandy Bonds
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khai88
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Posted - 2011.05.01 02:08:00 -
[55]
i like 2 share pls, (ISK send)
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Krythas
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Posted - 2011.05.01 02:57:00 -
[56]
I'd like to reserve 10 shares as well, and will send the ISK shortly. I'd also quite like to see some of the questions answered that were raised, more out of curiosity than anything else.
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Zaveed
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 05:53:00 -
[57]
I'd like to reserve 10 shares, please. Will send ISK ASAP
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Enigmatarius
Production Industry Mining Profiteers
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Posted - 2011.05.01 06:12:00 -
[58]
I'd like to reserve 10 shares, please. (ISKies away)
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TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.01 06:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
<snip>
To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK.
Hmm...
BIG Lottery |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 07:02:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Gambling is illegal BUT as pointed out by sites like PokerStar, US Players are restricted to playing with play money. This is play money
How long before a lawyer finds a case of someone getting bankrupt to gambling addiction because he'd keep compulsively buying GTCs => PLEXes to turn in this play money?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.01 07:24:00 -
[61]
Originally by: cosmoray
2. I didn't see the notice on the site saying you need to be 21 to enter and gamble. It is illegal in the US to gamble under 21.
Can't see such a notice on Zynga on Facebook either for that matter, and I would suggest they are a far higher profile monopoly money gambling site.
Still irrelevant Cosmo..
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Brynj Spirum
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Posted - 2011.05.01 08:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Gambling is illegal BUT as pointed out by sites like PokerStar, US Players are restricted to playing with play money. This is play money
How long before a lawyer finds a case of someone getting bankrupt to gambling addiction because he'd keep compulsively buying GTCs => PLEXes to turn in this play money?
So, who do they sue in this case? The gambling website that makes no monetary gain, or CCP which has no affiliation to the casino? Without proving CCP had firsthand knowledge a user was buying GTC for the explicit purpose of gambling, well, good luck with that.
PS
Lawsuits involving gambling losses usually involve players gambling while impaired and the casino not doing anything about it. and frankly, anyone getting a 'rush' with gambling fake money, the addiction kind of rush, is going to move onto the real thing for the real thrill. Someone would have to be REALLY messed up to value their space money from the future more than the everyday real life stuff.
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.01 08:07:00 -
[63]
Bravo!
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Graic Valente
Gallente
Valente Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.05.01 09:07:00 -
[64]
Wow. That's one big end game.
Good luck everyone.
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Arancar Australis
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:01:00 -
[65]
Please reserve 1 share, ISK sent.
Thanks!!
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:14:00 -
[66]
Best way for CCP to get in trouble if a person under the age of 21 purchases PLEX'es to gamble online. The line between legal/illegal could become very fuzzy. Plenty of US lawyers would happily go against CCP.
This is also reason a ban is likely.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:18:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Moto Akimoto
Btw, the ticker is "DBLDW", correct?
Yes correct ticker Moto.
1 minute after creating my post brock said
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Holy ****, 1 trillion?
3 minutes after creating my post brock said
Originally by: Brock Nelson
5 shares for me
12 minutes after creating my post brock said
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Actually cancel my reservation please
A couple minutes later he called me a scammer and block me from the SCC lounge. He was so busy mashing the reply button he never even read my IPO info. His later 'questions' are nothing more than trolling. I will not respond to him.
Originally by: egola
put me down for 10 shares
She changed her mind a couple minutes later.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
You have no assets to speak of, nothing that can be locked down, and no proof that your income or cash reserves are what you stated.
Good job captain obvious. My IPO clearly states that the corp is nothing more than a shell corp and contains no assets. Clearly you didn't bother reading that part. My previously linked Eve board profile clearly shows my cash reserves.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
API release to a known auditor would be (in my opinion) a necessary precondition to any further discussion here.
Chribba has been in receipt of my API key for a little over 4 months now. You can see the results of his audit here. I stated this above. You failed to perform any due dilligence on the information I already provided to you. If you are too stupid to follow the links and do the reading I cannot help you.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
Historically, EVE casinos and betting-related offerings have either closed because of potential exploits, failed because of operator incompetence, or been shown to be outright scams.
This is a distortion of the truth. SOME eve casinos have been frauds. You are making the argument that ALL of them have been. This is a lie. Blink is running successfully. Selene is also running a successful organization. So am I. Of course you conveniently skipped over the successful operations because they didn't support your straw man argument. Good job.
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
..With such a successful casino the only reason for scam would be for lulz. One trillion ISK would be lulz.
Actually there are many reasons. Not everyone is out to scam.
Originally by: Dagon Sirius
Originally by: RAW23
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit.
How was the existence of that assets an advantage to investors when BB just walked away with them?
Precisely. The scammers lul the sheep into thinking their investments are secure as they run off with their cash. Amazing how ignorant RAW23 is. Kudos to you Dagon for pointing out what should have been obvious long ago to everyone else.
Originally by: cosmoray
[Hai guis. i'm a degen gambler who lost all my investors money then fabricated a scam story so I wouldn't look like a complete tool. I would like to extend my 15 minutes by a few more. Can someone send me some moniez so I can go play poker?]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Posting to confirm Edwin is an *******...
Sorry Candy.
Thanks to everyone who has sent money for shares. We are roughly half way there. Not bad for 12 hours. I have updated post #7 with the names and number of shares for each investor. If I missed anyone or made a mistake on the list please let me know.
response
[
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:20:00 -
[68]
Lawsuits ...? Race against time ...? Seriously?
How long has EOH been running for now?
There are plenty of problems with this offering but this is on a par with the generic possibility that CCP could nerf anything.
Btw, the moment the government considers this to be real gambling because there could be plex involved you scammers are going to be in real trouble.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:34:00 -
[69]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 10:35:30
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Dagon Sirius
Originally by: RAW23
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit.
How was the existence of that assets an advantage to investors when BB just walked away with them?
Precisely. The scammers lul the sheep into thinking their investments are secure as they run off with their cash. Amazing how ignorant RAW23 is. Kudos to you Dagon for pointing out what should have been obvious long ago to everyone else.
You miss the point in a surprisingly aggressive and complete way. The comparison to T4U was yours and it was a comparison to T4U as a viable, running business that people were investing in, not T4U as a scam (people weren't willing to accept 1% returns on a scam but on a business), so a reply in terms of T4U as a scam in completely inappropriate. T4U, or any business backed with assets, gives the shareholders a share in the ownership of those assets (this share can then be scammed but that's a different point entirely). If the business simply ceases to operate (without scamming), investors will get their initial stake back, or some proportion of said stake corresponding to the current market value of the assets. If the market for the finished products dries up the capital can almost always be recouped at close to its initial value for any asset backed business. Investors are, therefore, in a position where they know that if they do not get scammed, they will receive most of their initialinvestment back upon shutdown. That is not the case here. You have given some outlines of what will happen if you sell the business but have given no guarantees that you will not simply stop running it. You have said you don't intend to stop but have not put in place any system for investors to recover their investments if you do stop tohe day after launch. Investors in this offering could lose the whole investment without a scam and that marks this out as a rather different kettle of fish to T4U.
So, please clarify the situation. Is this analysis correct or will investors be covered in some way if you decide to stop playing eve or stop running the casino before the initial stakes have been paid out in dividends?
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:35:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Btw, the moment the government considers this to be real gambling because there could be plex involved you scammers are going to be in real trouble.
All you got through plex, is a month of gametime. You cannot transfer it into real money legaly, so there is no "real gambleing". And it looks like you havnt understood the princip of gamble.
Some ppl loose, some ppl win, at the end there should be a little gap left for the bank. In the end from your point of view an insurance is also a scammer ^^ (you just bet on different events)
Roadrunner's Lottery - Choose your odds; NOT another "ticked-based" lotto - No need to wait for others. |
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:36:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Alex Stokes
Quote:
Btw, the moment the government considers this to be real gambling because there could be plex involved you scammers are going to be in real trouble.
All you got through plex, is a month of gametime. You cannot transfer it into real money legaly, so there is no "real gambleing". And it looks like you havnt understood the princip of gamble.
Some ppl loose, some ppl win, at the end there should be a little gap left for the bank. In the end from your point of view an insurance is also a scammer ^^ (you just bet on different events)
Suggest you read up and locate my comments in their context before responding to them.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 10:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Chribba has been in receipt of my API key for a little over 4 months now. You can see the results of his audit here. I stated this above. You failed to perform any due dilligence on the information I already provided to you. If you are too stupid to follow the links and do the reading I cannot help you.
What's with all the attitude, btw? You're clearly taking the **** as you know that a link to eve-board is not an api audit by Chribba. For a start, there is no way of verifying your profitability from that, only that you have x amount in your wallet. You claim that this is profit but there is no way of knowing whether you have received it from some other source.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.01 11:31:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 01/05/2011 11:31:10
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Chribba has been in receipt of my API key for a little over 4 months now. You can see the results of his audit here.
I CBA to go find the exact post but Chribba stated he was not an auditor.
In addition to that, the provided link does not point to an audit.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 11:39:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
Where are these deposits currently held?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The casino has been cash positive each of the 17 weeks since it opened. Over its lifetime the casino has generated a net profit of 1.15 billion ISK per day. To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK. Daily profits are growing steadily.
Do you have more detailed historical figures? Can those be made public?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
A 3rd party audit would just confirm information that I've already made publicly available.
The chief objective of a 3rd party audit is to confirm claims made by the auditee.
I do not understand why the words "would just confirm" appear in this quote rather than the words "has confirmed" or "will shortly confirm". Can you please explain this further?
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:03:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
These two quotes appear to contradict eachother. Can you please clarify?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The casino has a long-term mathematical edge on the games
Can you provide figures? What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:12:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Where are these deposits currently held?
www.rothbards.com/stats Players balances currently total about 1.9b isk. I hold that isk in my wallet. The rest of the 330b+ in deposits have since been withdrawn, converted into prizes, or lost from wagering. 1.9b is the casino's total liability to the players. I do realize I should have added this 1.9b to my liabilities in my IPO documentation.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Do you have more detailed historical figures? Can those be made public?
Most certainly. I keep extremely detailed records of everything I do. All of the weekly report data is stored in a database. I actually meant to provide a google docs that listed the dates and the dividend payments. As you can see my initial 5 posts of information provided to the public I forgot to include that data. I will see if I can cull the data into a google docs spreadsheet, set it to public and provide the link in this thread today.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I do not understand why the words "would just confirm" appear in this quote rather than the words "has confirmed" or "will shortly confirm". Can you please explain this further?
Sorry I will try to be more clear. From my understanding the API can only pull wallet entries back a couple of weeks. Thus there's no way for an auditor to confirm or deny the first 15 weeks of my data. It would show, however, exactly what I have in my wallet. You can already see this though on my eve board profile. Yesterday morning I had roughly 117b isk in my wallet. An auditor isn't going to add anything on that issue.
Auditors also call player to player wallet transfers suspect. Please realize that this is precisely how the casino operates. Players send money from their wallet to mine. The API then deposits that money into their casino account on the website. Cash and prizes redeemed are then sent by me back to players in game. My wallet is page after page after of player to player deposits and cashouts every single day.
My daily wallet balance from december 27th 2010 today is on Chribba's site. I'm perfectly ok with Chribba handing out all of the data points for my daily wallet balance from the day I signed up to today. On December 27th I had approx. 8.4b isk in my wallet iirc. I didn't go from 8.4b to 117b by accident. The trolls will never accept those are proceeds from the casino. After an auditor confirmed that there are various wallet transactions the trolls would just then say "BUT HOW WE KNOW THOSE AREN'T HIS ALTS??????" It's an argument I cannot win.
Sure I _could_ have bought approx 2x GTCs every single day since December 27th, and then used an army of alts to slowly deposit that money into my wallet over a 4-month period. No doubt some idiot like RAW23 would conclude just that. I hope everyone else realizes how silly such a plan would be. Further what would be the point of it? I Buy 110b in GTCs to wait 4 months and then scam 20b on the forums? I noticed BB made an appearance in this thread. Maybe ask him how solid of a scam idea that is since he's an expert on the subject.
There's already a huge amount of due diligence the public can perform. The links to my trade company spreadsheets are in the thread. You can cross reference this data with my completed contracts in game. You join the casino chat channel and see how it operates and see what players have to say about the casino. You can comb through my casino thread in the sell order forums with the 300+ replies from DIFFERENT people.
You could create a casino account and check it out for yourself to help determine whether you believe players actually play. You could closely look at the data for all 6 of my characters on Eve board. You could search each and everyone of my forum posts on Eve-search. Yet people like brock just want to spam the reply button and yell "SCAM!"
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.01 12:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Brynj Spirum
anyone getting a 'rush' with gambling fake money, the addiction kind of rush, is going to move onto the real thing for the real thrill. Someone would have to be REALLY messed up to value their space money from the future more than the everyday real life stuff.
As a matter of fact addicts are messed up in the first place.
When it comes to losing money by system it doesn't really matter where you lose it. You lose it on average in the long run. And right there is the "thrill": "I can outsmart the system because I'm lucky!" - Well, most can't.
In some way investing is exactly like that.
My 5 cents: An empty "About Us" page is just not good enough to win my trust: http://rothbards.com/aboutus |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 12:18:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
My 5 cents: An empty "About Us" page is just not good enough to win my trust: http://rothbards.com/aboutus
I added that page more than a month ago. I haven't added anything to it yet because i'm still torn whether I want to put RL stuff on that page for us or if I wish to put RP stuff there. I haven't decided and thus it's still blank. Players are far less interested in my professional work career than they are in whether the limits have been increased at the blackjack tables.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 12:25:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.
These two quotes appear to contradict eachother. Can you please clarify?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The casino has a long-term mathematical edge on the games
Can you provide figures? What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
You don't seem to understand how a casino operates. Has no one here ever been to Las Vegas? 330b is how much players have deposited total. They have lost 143b of that 330b. That's 143b is my profit. Of the the money they didn't lose I hold about 2b of that in the player accounts. The remainder of the money has been cashed out of the casino in the form of isk and/or prizes.
I have a degree in mathematics; that's my qualification. The EV for the games is nearly spot on with the actual values. The house edge on blacjkack, for example, is 0.15% for a player who uses basic strategy and declines insurance. I have automated reports that check actual vs expected for each of the games. They are working as intended.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Khanid Voltar
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 12:54:00 -
[80]
1B sent
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:04:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 01/05/2011 13:05:40
Originally by: cosmoray
2. I didn't see the notice on the site saying you need to be 21 to enter and gamble. It is illegal in the US to gamble under 21.
I didn't really notice this until now. This information is partially wrong. Age limits vary by states from 18 to 21.
http://www.worldcasinodirectory.com/gambling_age_chart.htm
edit: due to the underscores, you will probably have to copy paste it to work.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:19:00 -
[82]
Thank you for your answers so far.
I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion about what constitutes public funds. I will not labour the point as you have provided the information I was seeking.
Can you provide historical and maximum figures for your player account balance? That is to say the historical total of public money you have held within the casino and the maximum level that has reached?
Can you also provide the historical and maximum figures for your loan business?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you provide figures? What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
You don't seem to understand how a casino operates. Has no one here ever been to Las Vegas? 330b is how much players have deposited total. They have lost 143b of that 330b. That's 143b is my profit. Of the the money they didn't lose I hold about 2b of that in the player accounts. The remainder of the money has been cashed out of the casino in the form of isk and/or prizes.
I have a degree in mathematics; that's my qualification. The EV for the games is nearly spot on with the actual values. The house edge on blacjkack, for example, is 0.15% for a player who uses basic strategy and declines insurance. I have automated reports that check actual vs expected for each of the games. They are working as intended.
I am not seeking clarification on whether I understand how a casino operates.
Will you be able to provide me with the percentages I requested?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:20:00 -
[83]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 13:23:14
Name calling: check.
Evading questions: check.
Attacking strawmen: check.
All fine qualities for someone asking for public funds.
Just in case you genuinely didn't understand the points I made and the question I asked, I'll rephrase.
1) If you choose to stop playing or stop running the casino without selling it, will the investors receive any of their investment back? You haven't asnwered this question but it seems to me to be an important one. If not, then the point I made in my first post stands: in order for an investor to make any profit on this investment the business will either have to be sold at some point (for a price that is at least equivalent to the 1 tril valuation minus any dividends paid before that point) or it will have to run for several years to first break even, with only the subsequent dividends counting as profit, before closing down without a payout. Alternatively, investors will earn some dividends and then sell the shares but this just moves the issue onto the new purchaser. Running for several years and finding a buyer both seem like reasonable possible outcomes but as it stands there is a significant gap in your offering in that you do not cover what happens if neither of these eventualities come to pass, which is also a reasonable possible outcome.
2) Whilst your eveboard wallet balance is not an insignificant piece of data, claiming that it represents any kind of audit is disingenuous. I can fully believe the profit picture that you present as people in eve like to gamble. However, there are numerous other potential ingame sources for the isk and eveboard gives no information at all as to which it may have come from (GTCs are one but, despite you putting such an argument into my mouth, I would agree a very unlikely one). You appear to confuse my making this point with me taking a stance that would reject any further confirmation, even if it wasn't water-tight. That some people would still think that all the wallet transactions came from alts is really a bad reason to not provide additional data for those who would not make such a claim.
|
Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:30:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Alex Stokes on 01/05/2011 13:32:23
@RAW: Done. But I dont see that something changed, even with context :-P |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 13:33:00 -
[85]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 13:33:55
Originally by: Alex Stokes
Done.But I dont see that the point changed, even with context :-P
The point I was making was pretty much the same as yours. The connection to scamming was thrown in because I found it funny that Cosmo was making an argument that relied on the authorities treating ingame assets as equivalent to real assets, as this would make him a real thief. |
Nypheas Azurai
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 13:34:00 -
[86]
Are there any plans to make the site IGB-friendly? I think this will increase its long-term success.
e.g.
- use IGB for registrations: gather character name from headers, generate password directly in the browser, remove the need for external email/sign-up
- automate adding of funds: e.g. a showInfo() pop on the recipient, or if CCP ever get to implementing a giveMoney()
- anything else that streamlines the casino without the player needing to leave game. |
Chakirari
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 13:44:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Are there any plans to make the site IGB-friendly? I think this will increase its long-term success.
e.g.
- use IGB for registrations: gather character name from headers, generate password directly in the browser, remove the need for external email/sign-up
- automate adding of funds: e.g. a showInfo() pop on the recipient, or if CCP ever get to implementing a giveMoney()
- anything else that streamlines the casino without the player needing to leave game.
I think not needing an email would be a good idea.
Either way, isk sent.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 13:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
From my understanding the API can only pull wallet entries back a couple of weeks. Thus there's no way for an auditor to confirm or deny the first 15 weeks of my data.
I understand the limited window provided by the API. I would still like to know what is contained within that window.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
It would show, however, exactly what I have in my wallet. You can already see this though on my eve board profile. Yesterday morning I had roughly 117b isk in my wallet. An auditor isn't going to add anything on that issue.
If you are running a business that involves money going back and forth then the auditor will be able to confirm that within the limits of what is possible with the API.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
My wallet is page after page after of player to player deposits and cashouts every single day.
Excellent. I would like to see this confirmed to the limit of what is possible with the API.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
The trolls will never accept those are proceeds from the casino. After an auditor confirmed that there are various wallet transactions the trolls would just then say "BUT HOW WE KNOW THOSE AREN'T HIS ALTS??????" It's an argument I cannot win.
I am not concerned about any argument you may or may not be winning with "the trolls". Your API contains information and that information will either be consistent with what I would expect to see from a running casino or it will not.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
No doubt some idiot like RAW23 would conclude just that.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I noticed BB made an appearance in this thread. Maybe ask him how solid of a scam idea that is since he's an expert on the subject.
I do not really care what either of these people think unless they have your API key.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
There's already a huge amount of due diligence the public can perform.
I agree. Asking these questions is a key part of that.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 14:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Thank you for your answers so far.
yw
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion about what constitutes public funds.
If a player deposits money it goes into their casino account it is still their money. I am merely holding it for them. If they then wager that money at the blackjack tables and lose it's now my money. It's no longer public funds if they wager and lose.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you provide historical and maximum figures for your player account balance? That is to say the historical total of public money you have held within the casino and the maximum level that has reached?
My guess is that intraday there have been times where the balance has been maybe as high as 5b or so. That figure varies a lot especially at busy times of the day and even more so if there are a number high stakes players at the tables.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you also provide the historical and maximum figures for your loan business?
I think the most i've had out concurrently for loans is approx 3b. To be clear that was me lending other pilots 3b isk spread across a number of collateralized loans. My loans are over collateralized as I only deal with high quality collateral and I only offer 75% LTV. I have never had a default.
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
I guess this question is not at all clear to me. Do you want the EV vs actual value for each of the games with a breakdown for each? I've already stated that it's working as intended. Can you explain why it is you need this data beyond what i've already provided?
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 14:41:00 -
[90]
Quote:
There's already a huge amount of due diligence the public can perform
Varo Jan issued a vastly smaller IPO ("just" 150B or so) and he self-submitted himself to extensive auditing, created GAAP compliant statements.
Auditor was Magnu Stormhawk iirc and made a very fine job.
This IPO is the start of something going to be tenfold and - unlike Varo Jan's research service - is completely made of goodwill assets.
One would expect a cashflow statement at minimum.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 14:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Are there any plans to make the site IGB-friendly? I think this will increase its long-term success.
e.g.
- use IGB for registrations: gather character name from headers, generate password directly in the browser, remove the need for external email/sign-up
- automate adding of funds: e.g. a showInfo() pop on the recipient, or if CCP ever get to implementing a giveMoney()
- anything else that streamlines the casino without the player needing to leave game.
1)The casino works using the IGB now so i'm not clear on your first point.
2)Yes to your second point. We do plan on using the IGB 'trust' system to gather registrations instead of the current email-driven signup system.
3) The API is already running every 30 minutes with automated deposits. At present the API does not support sending money back to players in game from the casino. There's nothing I can do on that front unless CCP adds that functionality.
4) Streamlining is good. Zeeawk and I chat daily about improvements to the casino.
Originally by: Chakirari
I think not needing an email would be a good idea.
Either way, isk sent.
Agreed. Isk received! thanks.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 15:01:00 -
[92]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 15:01:17
Did my first comment somehow offend you so much that you have decided not to respond to anything I post, other than to call me an ignorant idiot?
Let's try again:
Originally by: RAW23
If you choose to stop playing or stop running the casino without selling it, will the investors receive any of their investment back? You haven't asnwered this question but it seems to me to be an important one. If not, then the point I made in my first post stands: in order for an investor to make any profit on this investment the business will either have to be sold at some point (for a price that is at least equivalent to the 1 tril valuation minus any dividends paid before that point) or it will have to run for several years to first break even, with only the subsequent dividends counting as profit, before closing down without a payout. Alternatively, investors will earn some dividends and then sell the shares but this just moves the issue onto the new purchaser. Running for several years and finding a buyer both seem like reasonable possible outcomes but as it stands there is a significant gap in your offering in that you do not cover what happens if neither of these eventualities come to pass.
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.05.01 15:04:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
1)The casino works using the IGB now so i'm not clear on your first point.
2)Yes to your second point. We do plan on using the IGB 'trust' system to gather registrations instead of the current email-driven signup system.
3) The API is already running every 30 minutes with automated deposits. At present the API does not support sending money back to players in game from the casino. There's nothing I can do on that front unless CCP adds that functionality.
4) Streamlining is good. Zeeawk and I chat daily about improvements to the casino.
To clarify, what I mean by 'works with the IGB' is to not only display in the IGB, but take advantage of the built-in functions.
Registration currently looks like this:
>Go to Rothbard's. > Enter external email. >Wait for mail >Login
Many players get turned off by 2nd and 3rd step, so what I'd hope to see is:
>Go to Rothbard's. >Pilot name detected by IGB, password automatically generated. >Login
In terms of automating funds, I mean to say, have the "Deposit ISK" pop-up your character info page, which makes access to "Give Money" much more foolproof and streamlined. Later if CCP implement giveMoney() method you guys can use this to completely fill out all the fields for a deposit.
In any event, I'm glad that you guys are continually working on Rothbard's. Put me down for 1 share, ISK sent.
--------------------
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 15:34:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
A couple minutes later he called me a scammer and block me from the SCC lounge. He was so busy mashing the reply button he never even read my IPO info. His later 'questions' are nothing more than trolling. I will not respond to him.
Good job of mashing up the real version of what happened. The fact that you went out and call my question (which was considered to be legitimate by some posters here) trolling only goes to show that you're avoiding them.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 15:56:00 -
[95]
Isk sent for 1 more share
Total 200m. (2 shares)
Chump change i know. i just re-invested the months invention profits back into invention/production supplies  i may have some more liquid available tommorrow. but if it sells out ill be sure in buy in one the next lot of shares.
so may i tentatively reserve one more? of not its coolios.
Cheers.
p.s. no i don;t want that phoenix BPO :p
___
iCandy Bonds
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 16:12:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I understand the limited window provided by the API. I would still like to know what is contained within that window.
Just to be crystal clear here: my entire business is predicated on trust. There has never been nor will there ever be any sort of way to strucutre this investment such that investors are secured. I'm being very upfront and honest about that. I'm not going to purchase 1T isk in BPOs that we can lock them down in a corp hangar somewhere so everyone can feel good about themselves.
My casino is successful because of the very high level of trust players have in me. This extends to my loan business as well to the limited number of 3rd party services i've performed for other people. If I do something to ruin my trustworthiness in the community all of that goes away. There's no amount golden eggs you could tempt me with for me to kill the goose.
If you don't trust me or have even a hint that you think i'm going to defraud you then I would strongly suggest that you not buy any shares. An audit will show the transactions, but it's not going to make your investment in anyway more or secure.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Blueprint Seller
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 16:17:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion about what constitutes public funds.
If a player deposits money it goes into their casino account it is still their money. I am merely holding it for them. If they then wager that money at the blackjack tables and lose it's now my money. It's no longer public funds if they wager and lose.
So what is their money in the period after it leaves their wallet and enters yours but before they wager it?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds
How does that match up with this quote?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you provide historical and maximum figures for your player account balance? That is to say the historical total of public money you have held within the casino and the maximum level that has reached?
My guess is that intraday there have been times where the balance has been maybe as high as 5b or so. That figure varies a lot especially at busy times of the day and even more so if there are a number high stakes players at the tables.
Is that a yes or a no? Do you have these figures? Are you willing to provide them?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you also provide the historical and maximum figures for your loan business?
I think the most i've had out concurrently for loans is approx 3b. To be clear that was me lending other pilots 3b isk spread across a number of collateralized loans. My loans are over collateralized as I only deal with high quality collateral and I only offer 75% LTV. I have never had a default.
Is that a yes or a no? Do you have these figures? Are you willing to provide them?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
I guess this question is not at all clear to me. Do you want the EV vs actual value for each of the games with a breakdown for each?
I would like the payout percentages. Isk paid out in prizes divided by isk wagered expressed as a percentage. I would like it broken down per game type with both your theoretical values and the actual historical values for the period the casino has been operating.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I've already stated that it's working as intended. Can you explain why it is you need this data beyond what i've already provided?
Because it will go some way to telling me if you are capable of running a profitable casino over a long period of time. At the moment all I know is that you have been running a casino for a few months. I do not know if it has been profitable because there is no available data. I cannot even guess if it will be profitable for the lifespan of the investment because there is no available data.
The only number I have that is in any way verified is your wallet balance. That wallet balance causes me more issues because I am not sure why you have it. What is the function of having 100b+ in your wallet? The function it is being used for at the moment is to help you sell shares in your casino. Surely you can see where this would lead me?
I can accept the limitations of the data you have available to you. I can accept the limitations of the data available from the API. So do you have these figures? Do you have any figures? Are you willing to provide them?
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.01 16:28:00 -
[98]
Edited by: egola on 01/05/2011 16:29:27
Alright people, hopefully this won't fall on deaf ears......hopefully most of MD will understand my viewpoint (which falls fairly standard to the MD community) and how it changed based on a few things.
first off, theres an inherent misunderstanding with the MD mind-set. we're not used to Meta bonds such as a casino bonds. Casinos DONT have a physical value as theres quite literally NO assets involved, people throw isk at it to get something of value, the isk is then redistributed to hand out prizes with the left over distributed between whoever is involved(i.e. roth and his co-captain). there is NO ACTUAL ISK LANDING ON THE CASINO.
what i HIGHLY suspect is going on is people are saying TL:DR (which i hope thats not the case for my post) and not realizing that hes ONLY offering up 200 SHARES, not the full 10,000.
the 1T value is NOT valued from any assets the casino has. rather from Roth's assessment of his casino's ability to print-isk as a casino, the value itself is sort of arbitrary but its derived from future isk that roth is expected to make as well as the value of these shares themselves(think of Roth's casino growth). most of you are looking at it from the standard MD POV wondering wheres 1T worth of collat?, STOP that. Hedge it against its current value of 20b. is 20b worth roth throwing away the reputation of his casino? would it eventually reach more then 20b worth of value? will the interest, casino growth, and any possible side income deriving from this be worth it once its over? as always invest at your own caution and leisure.
hes gonna implement this whole operation in several stages, each stage creating a higher value then the last probably based on accumulated interest+casino growth. and once again judge it based on your belief on how high up it'll grow.
many of you are hedging it up against a similar stock deal made by Malcorian Vandsteidt's thread here
DONT! thats a huge mistake, roth has displayed his ability to make isk time and again(chribba, audits,etc someone please confirm) while malcorian's was unconfirmed and primarily based on his dealing with a corp war (didn't seem to be a long term deal worth 150b, etc, etc not gonna argue the nature of the other thread on someone else's thread).
i was initially like the lot of you, i didn't read the OP, i only thought "COOL! Roth has a new ipo *throws isk" until people kept saying 1T this 1T that which made me wonder wth are they talking about? long story short i chickened out on investing into it until i looked into it a bit further. i then reread it and it actually reads 200 shares being sold as opposed to the full thing, which i had to question myself as to why. and THATS my conclusion(points at above)
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 16:33:00 -
[99]
At this point Blueprint Seller it's clear that you have signifcant trust concerns about my IPO. I do not believe that i'm going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. I see that you are getting to the point of just wanting to split hairs. I already aknowledged that the 2b in player accounts that I hold in my wallet should be counted as a liability. You want to beat a dead horse. I'm not interested in such a debate.
My best advice to you at this point is to not send me any isk. In fact if you do I will return it because I don't believe you will be happy. Maybe in 6 months with continued revenue growth and timely dividend payments you will feel more comfortable. Maybe not.
I've done my best to answer your questions, but there's not much more I can add.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Blueprint Seller
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 17:01:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
At this point Blueprint Seller it's clear that you have signifcant trust concerns about my IPO. I do not believe that i'm going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction.
Please try.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I see that you are getting to the point of just wanting to split hairs. I already aknowledged that the 2b in player accounts that I hold in my wallet should be counted as a liability. You want to beat a dead horse. I'm not interested in such a debate.
That was a point that I myself said was not worth labouring.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Maybe in 6 months with continued revenue growth and timely dividend payments you will feel more comfortable. Maybe not.
Will you be willing to answer my questions and provide figures in 6 months time?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I've done my best to answer your questions, but there's not much more I can add.
You have left many of them unanswered. Many of them only required a yes or no response. Are you sure that is the best you can do?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:30:00 -
[101]
Bumping an unanswered question.
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 15:01:17
Did my first comment somehow offend you so much that you have decided not to respond to anything I post, other than to call me an ignorant idiot?
Let's try again:
Originally by: RAW23
If you choose to stop playing or stop running the casino without selling it, will the investors receive any of their investment back? You haven't asnwered this question but it seems to me to be an important one. If not, then the point I made in my first post stands: in order for an investor to make any profit on this investment the business will either have to be sold at some point (for a price that is at least equivalent to the 1 tril valuation minus any dividends paid before that point) or it will have to run for several years to first break even, with only the subsequent dividends counting as profit, before closing down without a payout. Alternatively, investors will earn some dividends and then sell the shares but this just moves the issue onto the new purchaser. Running for several years and finding a buyer both seem like reasonable possible outcomes but as it stands there is a significant gap in your offering in that you do not cover what happens if neither of these eventualities come to pass.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:47:00 -
[102]
Is this thread an example of you following the Martin Luther King Jr. way?
--
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 17:49:00 -
[103]
@RAW Thx for clearing things up for me.
Roadrunner's Lottery - Choose your odds; NOT another "ticked-based" lotto - No need to wait for others. |
gnomer
TBAC corp
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 18:28:00 -
[104]
Interesting approach to answering questions. Ones you don't like you ignore or divert, or accues people of trolling.
Summary of some Important Questions, as a potential investor could you attempt to answer:
1. What is the payout percentage on slots?
2. If you decide to stop running casino, how will investors be affected?
3. Has a thrid party audited your database, confirming your results and profits?
4. Is the entire investment based on trust, or will you be having an audit?
5. How much time do you both spend running the casino each week? Including payout time ingame?
6. As you are making so much money from this casinoe, why do you need investors diluting your earnings?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 19:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: gnomer
Interesting approach to answering questions. Ones you don't like you ignore or divert, or accues people of trolling.
yes.
Originally by: gnomer
Summary of some Important Questions, as a potential investor could you attempt to answer:
1) last I checked we didn't have slots. the vig on the games we do offer range from 0.15% to approx 25%.
2) perpetuity. If perpetuity comes to an end we'll re-evaluate. pretty sure I mentioned this in the original posts.
3) my business model is based on trust. audting the database serves no purpose because the numbers could simply be changed to whatever. No there won't be an audit of the database.
4) I've stated repeatedly that my entire venture is based on trust. If you are looking for collateralized investments you will want to look elsewhere.
5) I never sleep. I only log out because they turn off the servers for a bit each day. Come spend a day or three in casino chat to see how much i'm around.
6) I get paid for my earnings now instead of later. I take a haircut for that. There are ancillary benefits to selling shares.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Saf Snafu
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Posted - 2011.05.01 19:55:00 -
[106]
On a personal note, my reason for this, my first investment, is quite simply that it is based on my ingame interactions with Edwin and the people in his casino chat. I can understand concerns with ROI and percentage returns, etc., but in the end this is just a game... and "if you can't afford to lose it don't fly it" applies to this as well.
So, ya, i'm just going on trust and instinct, but win some lose some... it's just a game
saf
(don't know why the smiley's lip is moving, but it amuses me)
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Brynj Spirum
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:02:00 -
[107]
To provide some numbers for context to Raw's excellent point and to put behind this "won't someone think of the children" crap when it comes to gambling, I assume everyone saw the Majesta empire theft.
Over 670 billion in isk and items were stolen. Lets assume all of that was paid for in selling gtc ingame. In current gtc to isk value that's about 30k dollars. Can someone tell me where I file charges against the thief? Can I sue CCP for my corps missing funds? After all, CCP condones stealing and scamming. Some of you are taking internet spaceships WAY to seriously.
As for the so called 'confusion' over this being either a 20 billion isk investment or a trillion isk one, there isn't any. Yes this offering is only 20 billion isk, no real alarms going off there with his wallet. But just metioning the one trillion isk value screams this a rep grind and in a few months time time the next opportunity will be for 150 billion and then maybe another 250 billion after that. Now we're talking walk away funds. He would have been better not mentioning it at all.
As for myself I hold no opinion if this is legit or not. I don't ask for money or invest my own. Though I do find it funny needing 20 billion while having that amount of cash reserves in his own personal wallet or that that high of a daily profit.
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Saf Snafu
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:25:00 -
[108]
I agree, and am going on the "plays well with others" and "shares his toys" scenario. If it doesn't work out, i get to brag about how i got ripped off... i missed doing so on T4u, and the others.... :)
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:45:00 -
[109]
Edwin,
Put me down for 10 shares. Will send ISK in a bit.
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.05.01 21:05:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I noticed BB made an appearance in this thread. Maybe ask him how solid of a scam idea that is since he's an expert on the subject.
While I do not believe that I am anywhere near an expert on the subject of scamming, I would agree that I have some experience relevant to this discussion. Since my opinion has been requested I will respond.
I believe that this is a scam in progress. I also believe that it will be a succesfull scam.
My one piece of advice to you, for what it is worth, would be to move away from the Block Ukx school of PR. Do not allow the questions posed here to harm your reputation, instead use them to strengthen it. Some of these questions were great oppertunities to win over a section of your audience that you had not already captured. While I grant that the amount of isk in the hands of the more risk adverse EVE players may not seem worth the effort to grab when compared to the low hanging fruit, it is my experience that a little effort exerted here in the early stages pays off great dividends as time goes on.
Of course, you know your plan better than I and therefore this advice may be entirely irrelevant. Please take it as it is intended: A cap doffed from one scammer to another.
Originally by: Saf Snafu
If it doesn't work out, i get to brag about how i got ripped off... i missed doing so on T4u, and the others.... :)
It is never too late to buy T4U shares. How many do you want?
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
My one piece of advice to you, for what it is worth, would be to move away from the Block Ukx school of PR.
From someone who doesn't necessarily think this is a scam, I would second this advice. You have been far too defensive for someone that has been a regular on MD for a while.
I understand that you feel slighted in some way by various things said and done... but be the better man.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:26:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Saf Snafu
If it doesn't work out, i get to brag about how i got ripped off... i missed doing so on T4u, and the others.... :)
The last time I said that, it turned out to be a scam. Moral of the story: never jinx yourself.
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:41:00 -
[113]
ISK sent in the name of corp.
High-Tech Duct Tape |
Bababoee
Amarr
Contractual Obligations
DRACONIAN COVENANT
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Posted - 2011.05.01 22:32:00 -
[114]
Reserve 5 shares for me please. Will send isk next time I log on.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.01 23:02:00 -
[115]
The really interesting question here is if it's possible to grow a virtual currency website casino big with lent virtual currency, sell the real life website for real life profit and run with the in game ISK on top. All seems perfectly legal (== allowed within the respective environment) to me.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:34:00 -
[116]
 Unsecured 20b loan..
Snarky and pompous asshatery to potential investors..
Use of manipulative Green text.
Seems legit!
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Tak149
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:47:00 -
[117]
Reserve 5 shares for me. Isk soon.
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:57:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
Unsecured 20b loan..
Snarky and pompous asshatery to potential investors..
Use of manipulative Green text.
Seems legit!
It appears this offering has passed all the flags needed to be filled.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.02 07:29:00 -
[119]
I hate using cliched meme's but this is such a cliche I will relent today. Obvious scam is obvious.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 08:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
Unsecured 20b loan..
Snarky and pompous asshatery to potential investors..
Use of manipulative Green text.
Seems legit!
..I'm not saying this is a scam. Let's assume for argument's sake that you run a very successful casino. I'll go on the record as stating that if I were the type of degen gambler who would participate in an -EV type of game I would deposit with your casino.
Now onto the what I consider to be the real beef with your offering.
Motive.
So as you report, you make..
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
1.15 billion ISK per day.
..and so far have made..
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK. Daily profits are growing steadily.
Logically, one would say, "you have in excess of 141b isk in profits, and make 1.15b in profits every day, why not just wait 14 or so days and not pay intrest?"
Obvious answer is that you would like to expand on this offering, and in the future try to get more isk from investors.
Why? What is your long term goals? Why do you want/need to have a public offering which will no doubt exceed 141b+ in the future?
Your reasons might be legit, or might not be. But the 800lb elephant in the room is why is a person in possession of a platinum goose rep grinding?
That being said, I have no doubt that this offering, and all future ones, will be filled. I mean, come on, you have 100+b in your wallet! John Q McUneducatedinvestors will be throwing their isk at you.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.02 09:11:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
Now onto the what I consider to be the real beef with your offering.
Motive.
I approached this offering on the basis that the ultimate motive was to sell on the business to a new operator once a high price for the shares had been established in the secondary market.
I therefore began asking the kind of questions I would ask if I was purchasing the entire business. I asked to see the books.
Having received a very negative response I concluded that it was impossible to know if the business was in a fit state to be sold and therefore I had no choice but to write it off as a viable investment. |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 09:30:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
Now onto the what I consider to be the real beef with your offering.
Motive.
I approached this offering on the basis that the ultimate motive was to sell on the business to a new operator once a high price for the shares had been established in the secondary market.
I therefore began asking the kind of questions I would ask if I was purchasing the entire business. I asked to see the books.
Having received a very negative response I concluded that it was impossible to know if the business was in a fit state to be sold and therefore I had no choice but to write it off as a viable investment.
..I'm too tired and just wrote a few long winded posts, so I'll keep it simple: Assuming that the ultimate motive was to sell the business was your first mistake. Ignoring answers and being argumentative/hard headed was your second.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.02 09:41:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
..I'm too tired and just wrote a few long winded posts, so I'll keep it simple: Assuming that the ultimate motive was to sell the business was your first mistake. Ignoring answers and being argumentative/hard headed was your second.
I did not assume the ultimate motive was to sell the business. I approached the offering on that basis.
I also did not ignore any of the answers given.
I will accept that I was argumentative. But I feel that is a perfectly viable approach.
I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that any of these things were mistakes given the outcome.
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xKillswitchx
Semper Fidelis Xe
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Posted - 2011.05.02 10:36:00 -
[124]
My only question to your post is why would you need investors? You said your casino is turning over 1 Bil isk per day profit, then why would you need any additional capital?? You should be turning a 30 Bil profit per month and I don't know that raising additional capital is really going to increase that monthly profit margin.
Not saying that this is a scam or anything, just wondering why such a successful business would need to raise additional capital when you are probably sitting on 100+ Billion isk at the moment.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.02 11:13:00 -
[125]
Isk received in game from the following pilots:
200m moto akimoto
1000m gatan hahran
800m moto akimoto
200m crimzim aprest
500m brynngaar
100m celladorre
1000m Zamestian Han
500m Velinqangi
1000m Saf Snafu
1000m Breaker77
100m Candy Oshea
1000m Tutskii
200m Khai88
1000m Krythas
200m Izidkiel
1000m Enigmatarius
100m Arancar
500m Deadspace synergy [Corp]
1000m Khanid Voltar
1000m Chakirari
100m Nypheas Azurai
1000m Egola
100m Candy Oshea
1000m Gei'neille
1000m Jean Baptiste Johansson
500m Tak149
==================
15600m total
Reservations:
500m Bababoee
==================
500m total
Thus 16,100m of the 20,000m offering has sold!
With the 15.6b already received plus the 500m reservation things are going well. Pretty good for less than two days into the offering. This offer is still outstanding for another five days. I've had numerous requests from the current investors to simply purchase the remaining block of shares. I've declined their offers as I want to give the smaller investors a chance at owning the shares.
Dividends go out on Wednesday as previously noted. I'm hopeful that the remaining shares sell before Wednesday so I can distribute the stock so investors can start receiving returns on their investment!
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.02 11:18:00 -
[126]
Originally by: xKillswitchx
My only question to your post is why would you need investors? You said your casino is turning over 1 Bil isk per day profit, then why would you need any additional capital?? You should be turning a 30 Bil profit per month and I don't know that raising additional capital is really going to increase that monthly profit margin.
Not saying that this is a scam or anything, just wondering why such a successful business would need to raise additional capital when you are probably sitting on 100+ Billion isk at the moment.
If Edwin sells some shares at 100m per share then following one method of valuation his business is worth:
100m x 10,000 shares = 1,000,000m
If the secondary market begins to trade those shares at a premium then using the same method of valuation his business is worth:
1,000,000m + ( premium x 10,000)
If Edwin wishes to sell his operation on to a new owner then such a valuation will be a viable starting point for price negotiatons.
He will get less than the final valuation for this set of shares but it is worth it in the longer term.
Debate on if this method of valuation is valid is a seperate topic. Even if you believe that method to be totally wrong it still gives Edwin an additional position to negotiate from.
If Edwin was to sell on this business for 1.5t isk in six months time he would not only be a very rich man but he would secure a place for himself in EVE history.
This is why I took this as the basis for my initial examination of this offering. I am not excluding other motives and outcomes but this one is the one that made for the most interesting analysis.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.02 11:28:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
2) perpetuity. If perpetuity comes to an end we'll re-evaluate. pretty sure I mentioned this in the original posts.
Actually, your OP gives both 'perpetuity' and 'the foreseeable future', which need not be the same things.
Quote:
I plan to run this in perpetuity. Like most RL corps I plan to run this for "the foreseeable future." I don't have any wind down or transfer plans because I'm not planning either. If/when I decide to make a change a public discussion will commence.
Essentially, what you say is you currently have no plans to stop running the business but this may change. However, you are unwilling to put in place any procedures for the eventuality that this does change. Given the history of businesses in EVE, however, the likelihood of you closing this down at some point seems much greater than the likelihood of running it forever. You also make no commitment to run it in perpetuity, so your statement amounts to nothing more than 'I might and I might not'. Given that you admit the possibility of not running it indefinitely, it is strange that you are unwilling to address the issues that this possibility raises. Promising to have a 'public discussion' at the time is really quite valueless as it commits you to nothing. And having seen how you respond to public discussion in this thread I can't see why any investor should have any confidence that you won't act in a purely arbitrary fashion.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: gnomer
Interesting approach to answering questions. Ones you don't like you ignore or divert, or accues people of trolling.
yes.
Arrangements for shutting down are important because in many circumstances they will dictate the actual returns people receive. Since you have given no commitment to return investors' isk if you do close down, depsite being invited to make such a commitment, one can only conclude that a rational investment decision must assume that you will not.
This being the case, good returns for investors are almost entirely predicated on you selling the business for something close to your 1 trillion isk valuation. If the business is not sold, the actual returns on closing will be something like the following, figures given for each full year of dividends, assuming these stay constant.
1 year of operation = 58% loss or -4.8% monthly return
2 years of operation = 16% loss or -0.66% monthly return
3 years of operation = 26% profit or 0.72% monthly return
4 years of operation = 68% profit or 1.41% monthly return
5 years of operation = 110% profit or 1.81% monthly return
6 years of operation = 152% profit or 2.11% monthly return
With no guarantee of capital being returned at closing it will take 6 years just to get an average return of 2% per month. Only if the business is sold for at least 1 trillion isk (a figure that has not really been justified as a valuation) will the returns actually equal those mentioned in the OP. Or, you could, of course, guarantee to repay the capital in the event of closure.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.02 11:45:00 -
[128]
Originally by: RAW23
This being the case, good returns for investors are almost entirely predicated on you selling the business for something close to your 1 trillion isk valuation.
That depends on what you consider to be good returns.
In my view good returns for long term investors are almost entirely predicated on Edwin selling the business for considerably more than the 1t isk valuation.
For short term investors good returns can be gained by selling the shares at a premium. This outcome is equally predicated on the belief that Edwin will sell the business for considerably more than the 1t isk valuation.
This is why I was left cold by the lack of available figures. Without them a lucrative sale seems unlikely.
I do not believe that simply delivering escalating dividends will be sufficient to convince a buyer. Dividends without supporting figures will appear to be cooked.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.02 13:24:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
If Edwin sells some shares at 100m per share then following one method of valuation his business is worth:
100m x 10,000 shares = 1,000,000m
If the secondary market begins to trade those shares at a premium then using the same method of valuation his business is worth:
1,000,000m + ( premium x 10,000)
If Edwin wishes to sell his operation on to a new owner then such a valuation will be a viable starting point for price negotiatons.
He will get less than the final valuation for this set of shares but it is worth it in the longer term.
Debate on if this method of valuation is valid is a seperate topic. Even if you believe that method to be totally wrong it still gives Edwin an additional position to negotiate from.
If Edwin was to sell on this business for 1.5t isk in six months time he would not only be a very rich man but he would secure a place for himself in EVE history.
This is why I took this as the basis for my initial examination of this offering. I am not excluding other motives and outcomes but this one is the one that made for the most interesting analysis.
Exactly! Bravo! I was beginning to think MD was full of nothing but droopy-eyed armless children. I'm happy to see someone finally thinking beyond the typical reasons people in MD raise money: because they are broke or they want to scam.
Moreover, this offering increases my net worth by 750b isk. This is one of the primary reasons very successful privately held companies go public. They do not need your cash, the shareholders want to increase their net worth in exchange for sharing the fruits of their successful operation.
Further still, this offering increases Zeeawk's net worth by 250b isk. I told him when we started the casino that he would make billions. In all probability he would make 10s of billions. I also stated he could make hundreds of billions. I'm fullfilling that promise.
In before "LOL OMG 20b isn't 750B LOL." Bill Gates and Warren Buffett do not have billions in cash. They never had. What they own are millions of shares of stock in their own companies worth billions of dollars. I'm doing the same. When Mr.Gates wants another red Ferrari he can sell a few shares of MS stock. Now when I want to buy a red titan I can sell some shares of casino stock.
You are absolutely correct in that I want the secondary market to price the shares. I believe I have valued the company low. This will directly benefit those who buy shares early. If the secondary market prices the shares at 110m each then each investor instantly increases the value of their casino holdings by 10% while continuing to enjoy weekly dividends. This has the ancillary benefit of increasing the value of my shares by 10%. This is a win/win for both me and the other shareholders.
The best part is, I don't have to sell the casino to enjoy the increase in share valuation just like Mr. Buffett doesn't have to sell all his BH class A shares to enjoy their increasing stock price. If I decide to sell 10 shares later and they've been exchanging at 110m each then I should be able to sell mine at 110m.
To your other point. I don't have any plans to sell the casino. If I did sell the casino the other shareholders still benefit. Say that someone offered me 1.5T isk and I accepted. I would then institute a buyback of all the shares at the 1.5T isk valuation. This means each redeemed share would be worth 150m isk up from the 100m IPO price. Once again ALL of the shareholders benefit from the success.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.02 13:27:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
That depends on what you consider to be good returns.
In my view good returns for long term investors are almost entirely predicated on Edwin selling the business for considerably more than the 1t isk valuation.
For short term investors good returns can be gained by selling the shares at a premium. This outcome is equally predicated on the belief that Edwin will sell the business for considerably more than the 1t isk valuation.
This is why I was left cold by the lack of available figures. Without them a lucrative sale seems unlikely.
I do not believe that simply delivering escalating dividends will be sufficient to convince a buyer. Dividends without supporting figures will appear to be cooked.
Please understand it doesn't matter what numbers I give you from the casino operations. Any of them could potentially be fabricated. Hence even if I released them it would not resolve the complaints. The only thing that can be verified without tampering would be my wallet transactions for which only the most recent two weeks are available.
My daily wallet history is listed on Eve board for the entire time the casino has been in operation. Those numbers are API veried and still people doubt them so adding 2 weeks of wallet transactions to the mix isn't going to satisfy anyone who already doubts the numbers.
I said I would publish the weekly dividends. I wanted to do this yesterday but simply ran out of time. Here's the google spreadsheet for anyone interested
dividends
[ Casino | Loans ] |
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.02 13:34:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
[limegreen]Exactly! Bravo! I was beginning to think MD was full of nothing but droopy-eyed armless children.
That's ironic, because your behaviour in this thread for the most part has been nothing but childish yourself.
1. Name calling
2. Ignoring valid questions
3. Demanding people trust you 'just because' you say so.
Feel free to send my bill back, because I for one can't be bothered to put up with your pathetic posturing.
It's quite amazing how much respect you have lost from me over the course of this thread.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.02 13:44:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Feel free to send my bill back...
sent!
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.02 13:48:00 -
[133]
Received.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.02 14:09:00 -
[134]
We all know the world is coming to an end in 2012. However it was never quite clear how its going to happen:
Edwin Rothbard's ego will force the sun to orbit it thereby completely destroying our galaxy as we know it. You have been warned.
--
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.05.02 14:10:00 -
[135]
WTB shares 101m isk each |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.02 15:16:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Please understand it doesn't matter what numbers I give you from the casino operations. Any of them could potentially be fabricated. Hence even if I released them it would not resolve the complaints. The only thing that can be verified without tampering would be my wallet transactions for which only the most recent two weeks are available.
My daily wallet history is listed on Eve board for the entire time the casino has been in operation. Those numbers are API veried and still people doubt them so adding 2 weeks of wallet transactions to the mix isn't going to satisfy anyone who already doubts the numbers.
You keep telling me that the figures I am asking for are of no use to me. I disagree.
If you give me the figures then I can look at them from two perspectives.
I can first treat them as genuine and assess whether they suggest your casino is well run and has a healthy future. If they do not support that then it really does not matter if they are fabricated or not because if even your fabricated figures do not show a good business then I might as well assume that your genuine figures are no better. Fabricating good figures does at least require the understanding of what good figures are which is a step ahead of what many EVE players are capable of. If your figures are good then regardless of whether they are fabricated or genuine you have at least crossed the first fence.
I can then treat them as suspect and assess whether there are any elements of the figures that support the conclusion that they are fabricated. Perfectly fabricating good figures is an even more difficult challenge for the average person.
If we come to the conclusion that your figures show a good business and there are no tell tale signs of ham fisted fabrication then we would at least be a thousand miles closer to our destination than at present.
I am simply asking for the oppertunity to make my own assesment of the data that exists. I am not asking for data that does not exist. I am not asking for the data to prove things it cannot. I am purely concerned with what is possible with what is available.
In the longer term you need to make your API available to a number of independent auditors so that your future figures can be authenticated on an ongoing basis. Then this question of doubt that you insist on wielding as a defence can be reduced to a more tolerable level.
I undestand that to many this level of book keeping and auditing may seem silly in a computer game but I would point to the fact that you wish to emulate a powerhouse businessman while running a large and massively profitable enterprise. That is not a trivial aspiration and some level of book keeping and auditing even at the amateurish standard that can be expected within a computer game is not an unreasonable requirement.
Unfortunately due to your handling of this discussion so far you have promoted greater concerns than the existinence, content and authenticity of your figures.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.05.02 15:16:00 -
[137]
So now the plan is revealed. Edwin, I did wonder why you showed up on MD and started running little trade bonds and auctioning debt you didn't need. Your plan is to sell your casino for as much as you can get.
I'm not 100% sure this is a scam yet - after all you did manage to make 100 billion isk on your own and that deserves some respect.
Maybe you're a man of vision - but your offering so far is pretty awful and is over-valued.
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.02 15:38:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 02/05/2011 15:41:33
Post 125 still shows me as an investor. Please correct.
I think Edwin has shown a complete lack of professionalism and class in this thread in the way he has responded to legitimate questions.
It is for that reason I do not think he is scamming, because no scammer would ever act in the way he has in the thread.
Just because someone asks a question you don't like Edwin, doesn't make them a troll. In effect you seem to be saying:
'Don't you know who I am? I'm Edwin Rothbard, I've been running a make believe Casino for FOUR WHOLE MONTHS'
Big deal.
edit - corrections
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Zeeawk
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Posted - 2011.05.02 17:13:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
So now the plan is revealed. Edwin, I did wonder why you showed up on MD and started running little trade bonds and auctioning debt you didn't need. Your plan is to sell your casino for as much as you can get.
O'rlly? Pretty sure above he said his plan was to NOT sell the casino. Even if it was, whats wrong with that? Would you complain if someone wanted to sell a BPO?
I'm not 100% sure this is a scam yet - after all you did manage to make 100 billion isk on your own and that deserves some respect.
Why not just say I still think this is a scam?
Maybe you're a man of vision - but your offering so far is pretty awful and is over-valued.
The only thing thats awful is going to be how those who miss out feel when dividends go out.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 17:20:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
..No, you can't look at my figures..
..I want to look at your figures!..
..Blueprint Seller, are you in any financial position to even think about buying the casino? Any reputation position to get a loan to buy the casino?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.02 17:42:00 -
[141]
There are currently 24 pilots who have sent money for shares. 14.6b isk in shares have been paid for. 5.4b shares have not. Three of the investors who've already purchased the maximum number of shares have asked repeatedly to purchase the remainder of the outstanding shares.
It appears to me there are two groups of people here: ones who want to invest and make money and others who just want to troll with no intentions of investing. I'm mentally exhausted from dealing with the trolls. I've chatted in game with a number of the people who have already purchased shares and they are for removing the cap.
Thus if anyone who has already purchased the maximum numbers of shares would like to buy more you may now do so. If other smaller investors show up before saturday I will honor the commitment to let them purchase shares. If this kicks me over the 20b mark by a little bit so be it.
If anyone who has already purchased shares is not comfortable with the 10 share cap being removed early you may return your shares to me for a full refund until saturday. If you decide that you would like to return your shares please contact me first in game before sending them.
I will send shares in game shortly. If anyone who has previously expressed interesting in buying more than 10 is still interested now's your chance!
If any investors and/or potential investors has further questions or concerns here are the ways to reach me:
1) eve mail me in game
2) start a convo with me in game
3) stop by the "Roth IR" channel. This is the Investor Relations channel and all investors are welcome to hang out here.
4) come chat with me on our public TS3 server. I'll gladly send you TS details in game.
Trolling posts here will go unanswered.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.05.02 17:45:00 -
[142]
sent money for remaining shares |
Moto Akimoto
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Posted - 2011.05.02 17:47:00 -
[143]
Gatan, wait! I would like to buy another 10 shares wtf! LOL
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.02 18:08:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 02/05/2011 18:11:43
Still going on I expected this to be well buried by now. Lets set aside my opinion that Casinos and wormhole sales are always scams and just looks at the evidence.
Investors get nothing for their investment except for a empty promises. Edwin Rothbard admits he intends to sell his casino again after taking it public through this offering. Selling the same asset multiple times is one of the oldest scams in the book.
The op's posting history show clear signs of narcissistic personality disorder, (grandiose sense of self-importance,believes he is "special", claims association with high-status individuals, unreasonable sense of entitlement, arrogant, envious and paranoia); traits common to most scammers.
The eve-board character links are security theatre designed to give the appearance of probity while delivering nothing; very reminiscent of a previous scammer who vowed to return and scam again bigger. The eve-board links reveal worthless unskilled alts, one of which is rather strangely called "Sub Account B". The eve-board links omit at least one alt linked to this venture, which means there is at least one more undisclosed account, since the two disclosed account are full.
The Edwin Rothbard character is four years and five months old, never posted on the forums once in the first four years, then suddenly four month ago starts grinding forum rep (1), (2), (3), which despite claimed inexperience demonstrate a rather remarkable knowledge regarding grinding rep and IPOs.
Need I go on? I turned all this up in 15 mins from public sources like Eve search.
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velinqangi
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Posted - 2011.05.02 18:10:00 -
[145]
Ill grab another 5 shares, if moneybags hasnt snapped em all up yet! :) Iskies sent
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Zeeawk
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Posted - 2011.05.02 18:45:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 02/05/2011 18:11:43
Need I go on? I turned all this up in 15 mins from public sources like Eve search.
Turned what up?
Edwin already stated in his OP that those characters aren't skilled.
Edwin never said he was going to sell the casino. Perhaps sell more shares but not the entire casino.
Your reading comprehension is as bad as your internet space sleuthing.
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Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.02 18:48:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
..No, you can't look at my figures..
..I want to look at your figures!..
..Blueprint Seller, are you in any financial position to even think about buying the casino? Any reputation position to get a loan to buy the casino?
My line of questioning was more to do with how saleable the casino is in general. It is far too early for me to have considered actually buying it.
I do not see why my financial circumstances are particularly relevant to this discussion but I will answer your questions briefly.
Yes. I am in a financial position to consider a purchase such as this.
No. I could not get a loan on that scale based on reputation. I think far too many people in this forum use reputation in place of security. If I wish to get a loan for this or any other reason I would provide collateral.
There are far too few things for a wealthy eve player to invest in on this scale. How many sizeable businesses have you seen traded in EVE? One stop research springs to mind but even that was fairly small. It is almost a foreign concept. I find I generally have to approach business owners to suggest the idea and many of them had not even considered the possibility. It is certainly something I would like to see more of.
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.02 18:58:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
suddenly four month ago starts grinding forum rep (1), (2), (3), which despite claimed inexperience demonstrate a rather remarkable knowledge regarding grinding rep and IPOs.
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
very reminiscent of a previous scammer who vowed to return and scam again bigger.
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Or do you mean Riethe? It involves web sites so to be honest it is far more likely to be Riethe than me.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 19:05:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 02/05/2011 19:05:04
..Get your pitch forks boys, it's time for a good ole' witch hunt!
REITHE REITHE REITHE!!
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AssassinationsdoneWrong
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Posted - 2011.05.02 21:40:00 -
[150]
Sorry I couldn't have gotten to the post earlier Ed.
Sorry I couldn't have got in on the buy (which I would have done in a heartbeat!)
Sorry I couldn't have explained how well we have come to know each other in RL and in EvE and have shot down trollers who probably don't have the money to invest. (Always loved the words market speculators ...... all they do is speculate! Maybe Market Pontificators should be a new turn of phrase!)
Sorry I couldn't have described you and Zee as the most honest people I know in EvE.
BY THE WAY TROLLERS. JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE ASKED ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS PREVIOUSLY, BEEN SATISFIED WITH THE ANSWERS AND THEN PROCEEDED TO PURCHASE?? EXAMPLES PLEASE YOU BUNCH OF WET FARTS NOT MONOSYLLABIC YES/NO's SEEING AS YOU HAVE ALL TAKEN GREAT TIME TO PULL OUT YOUR DUMMIES GUIDES TO THE MARKETS AND YOUR THESAURUS'.
Never have I seen this guy lose his cool the way he has today. Not because he was always that way (in fact he is the calmest most stoic guy I know) but purely based upon such inane, ******ed and downright bloody-minded cross questioning which he knew would have just opened the door to 10 more avenues per question because you never had any intention of purchasing in the first place!!
If it was me I would have pulled the whole plan and refunded all investors because they demonstrated insight, wisdom and sound judgement, but he's a level above and here he is sticking to it and honoring the plan he originally conceived. Hats off to you mate.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.05.02 21:55:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
creepy stuff
I think the fact that you've gone to all this trouble is the most troubling thing in this thread. Step away from the computer, you freak.
--------------
Fix the game's last broken weapon system - support if you care!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.05.02 22:14:00 -
[152]
Quote:
BY THE WAY TROLLERS. JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE ASKED ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS PREVIOUSLY, BEEN SATISFIED WITH THE ANSWERS AND THEN PROCEEDED TO PURCHASE??
These are pretty much stock questions.
Quote:
Never have I seen this guy lose his cool the way he has today
Today it was a real investment where he'd have to prove being a social and propositive business man.
It's the one way to attract investors who are not dummies ready to give in to the first "guru" asking them money.
Quote:
Sorry I couldn't have explained how well we have come to know each other in RL and in EvE and have shot down trollers who probably don't have the money to invest.
The tire kickers are easy to figure out and ignore.
Though, in this case, he managed to keep off potential investors.
I had a pair of billions to put in here but I did not got convinced so I'll give them to Towaoc.
For an example of what an investor wants to hear, look the nearby Grendell thread.
Grendell has been kind, gentle, replied to similar uncomfortable questions with professionalism and I'll surely look forward to invest in him the next time he puts up a bond with a better interest %.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.02 22:32:00 -
[153]
I suspect a serious lack of sleep here.
Edwin is very hands-on with his casino, he is proud of it. that and a lack of sleep i suspect caused him to react negatively to the obvious troll's who are only in it to get a negative reaction, (some of whom he considered friends from scc-lounge). (VV called them tire kickers i lol'd in RL.)
tl:dr get more sleep
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iCandy Bonds
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.03 00:09:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
tl:dr get more sleep
excellent advice candy :)
The goal was to sell 20b in shares. Players sent 28.3b total. I'm pretty sure everything is correct, but if you didn't get your shares or the incorrect number please let me know. Thanks again to everyone who purchased shares. The first dividend payment is wednesday.
sleepy time!
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.03 00:15:00 -
[155]
..Big congratulations on filling such a large bond in which a short time.
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Zamestian Han
|
Posted - 2011.05.03 05:43:00 -
[156]
WTB 30 Shares @101m each
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.03 05:46:00 -
[157]
Selling 1 share @ 150m, itsa fair deal, take it (Brad pitt Pikey Voice)
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iCandy Bonds
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Moto Akimoto
|
Posted - 2011.05.03 06:23:00 -
[158]
Bid: 10 shares @ 35,454,919.07 each
Ask: 10 shares @ 354,549,190.67 each
Offer good until 2011-05-04 @ 18:00 UTC
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
khai88
|
Posted - 2011.05.03 09:24:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Thus if anyone who has already purchased the maximum numbers of shares would like to buy more you may now do so. If other smaller investors show up before saturday I will honor the commitment to let them purchase shares. If this kicks me over the 20b mark by a little bit so be it.
don't this mean for me (only have 2 share) can still buy a share at normal price of 100m ?
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RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.05.03 11:47:00 -
[160]
Originally by: AssassinationsdoneWrong
BY THE WAY TROLLERS. JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE ASKED ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS PREVIOUSLY, BEEN SATISFIED WITH THE ANSWERS AND THEN PROCEEDED TO PURCHASE??
I'm assuming you consider me a troll because Edwin didn't answer my, very basic, questions. To answer your question, I've invested in dozens of MD offerings and I never invest unless the questions I ask are answered to my satisfaction. This applies to offerings made by people I personally like as much as by those I don't know. I have pulled my investment from long running offerings in the past when they failed to satisfy me on new developments (e.g. Machete Visor, who went on to scam btw) and I have invested in offerings about which I had concerns once my concerns were addressed (e.g. the FPA IPO). I've invested from 500mil up to 25bil in single unsecured offerings. I haven't yet lost isk on an investment, despite being at it for over a year.
Quote:
Never have I seen this guy lose his cool the way he has today. Not because he was always that way (in fact he is the calmest most stoic guy I know) but purely based upon such inane, and downright bloody-minded cross questioning which he knew would have just opened the door to 10 more avenues per question because you never had any intention of purchasing in the first place!!
This offer did not face serious, hard-core questioning. No questions beyond the most basic were asked. The outrage the OP showed at being asked to clear up very basic issues was far more telling than the answers he did or didn't give. History shows that the likely outcomes for investing in people that answer concerns in such a fashion is not good. This has nothing to do with the intrinsic strength of the business plan but something else that is more important in eve investments - how one deals with people and what concern one shows for other peoples' interests. Even when things don't end with a scam or default they may end in a 'McCormack' scenario, which is almost as bad for investors.
Quote:
If it was me I would have pulled the whole plan and refunded all investors because they demonstrated insight, wisdom and sound judgement, but he's a level above and here he is sticking to it and honoring the plan he originally conceived. Hats off to you mate.
The cult of personality that some posters are trying to build up around Edwin is one of the most concerning things here. He's a good guy and so shouldn't have to answer questions is a terrible approach for an investor to take (whether or not it is true that the person genuinely is a good guy). Edwin even went so far as to encourage this type of slavish sycophancy by stating that he wouldn't accept an investment from someone who asked too many questions.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:34:00 -
[161]
Originally by: khai88
don't this mean for me (only have 2 share) can still buy a share at normal price of 100m ?
Yes khai you may. Although I will say we are rapidly approaching 30b in shares sold and I really do not want to go over mark.
Zeeawk setup an investors page at the casino for shareholders. If you create a casino account at www.rothbards.com I can set your status to investor which will give you access to the casino profit history with colorful graph! The data provided is very basic; it's just a start. The data will be updated weekly. Because of that I will probably not bother copying/pasting the dividend data into google docs because it's extra work.
I give all new signups at the casino 1m free isk this is extended to investors who create accounts. You can wander about the casino with your 1m free iskies in hand marvel at what you invested in!
[ Casino | Loans ] |
khai88
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:38:00 -
[162]
i will get another 1 share pls(isk send) and for every 10b ipo you get i will buy 1 more share
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:43:00 -
[163]
Originally by: khai88
i will get another 1 share pls(isk send) and for every 10b ipo you get i will buy 1 more share
money received and share sent. Thanks!
Also forgot to mention to everyone. Your shares can be found in your wallet->shares tab. The name of your shares are "Rothbard's Casino."
[ Casino | Loans ] |
SMX
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 18:08:00 -
[164]
Want to buy 4 shares at 105m each.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.03 18:17:00 -
[165]
All of the IPO shares have been sold. If you would like to buy or sell shares you can do so in the secondary market!
[ Casino | Loans ] |
khai88
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Posted - 2011.05.03 18:50:00 -
[166]
can i know what is the value of IPO sell? 30b?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.03 20:51:00 -
[167]
Originally by: khai88
can i know what is the value of IPO sell? 30b?
yes, post #7 has the totals.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1504515&page=1#7
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.03 22:42:00 -
[168]
Selling my 2 shares @ 110m each.
PM for a Deal.
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iCandy Bonds
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.04 00:45:00 -
[169]
Edited by: egola on 04/05/2011 00:46:05
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Selling my 2 shares @ 110m each.
PM for a Deal.
ooooh slick bastard, already selling at profit aye? 
edit: roth can you set up my acct to investor status?
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.04 08:52:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Selling my 2 shares @ 110m each.
PM for a Deal.
Edwin just letting you know i sold my 2 shares @ 110m each, to an anonymous party (you can check yourself through your corps' shares tab.)
Please note that i Didn't 'panic sell' coz i though this was a scam , but i was always going punt the shares on for a quick buck  , & the amount of mails i got in response to selling the shares at 110m was astonishing, i can't turn down 10% for 2 days.
I may buy in again when you expand, depends on my position.
best of luck,
Candy.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.04 11:07:00 -
[171]
Originally by: egola
edit: roth can you set up my acct to investor status?
done
Originally by: egola
Please note that i Didn't 'panic sell' coz i though this was a scam , but i was always going punt the shares on for a quick buck , & the amount of mails i got in response to selling the shares at 110m was astonishing, i can't turn down 10% for 2 days.
I figured there would be some day traders mixed in with the long-term investors. The fact that you sold your shares for more than the IPO price is good for all of the shareholders. 
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Arancar Australis
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Posted - 2011.05.04 15:55:00 -
[172]
Hi Edwin,
Can you double check to see if my share was sent, just check my Wallet and not showing up under the share Tab...unless i am looking at it wrong (which may be possible  )
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.04 16:53:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Arancar Australis
Hi Edwin,
Can you double check to see if my share was sent, just check my Wallet and not showing up under the share Tab...unless i am looking at it wrong (which may be possible )
You are correct. I sent your share to the wrong person. You should now have your share in your wallet. Sorry for the mixup.
regards,
Edwin
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.05.04 22:19:00 -
[174]
Thanks for first weekly payment! |
Mining Hole
Gallente
The Rogue Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2011.05.04 22:28:00 -
[175]
Dividend received - very happy - already blown it all inside the investment *thumbs up*
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Enigmatarius
Production Industry Mining Profiteers
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Posted - 2011.05.04 23:34:00 -
[176]
Confirming weekly dividend payment. Thanks very much
Also digging the investors chart page 
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.05 00:49:00 -
[177]
Quote:
In business since December 27th, 2010
Player Accounts1,364
ISK Payouts161,861,007,325.49 ISK
Prizes Awarded84,746,623,098.00 ISK
Player Balances2,174,818,727.11 ISK
Canflips Completed782
Matari Pick'em Hands Played1,383,650
Blackjack Hands Played171,893
Quoted for reference.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Daniel limb
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.05 01:19:00 -
[178]
in on ground floor of future scam thread
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
High-Tech Duct Tape
DUCT TAPE UNION
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Posted - 2011.05.05 01:35:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Daniel limb
in on ground floor of future scam thread
In on the ground floor of a stupid Goon meme.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.05 02:03:00 -
[180]
Im sorry if i missed it, but is there any form of public record of dividend payments?
Im curious what the dividend per share was.
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iCandy Bonds
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Chakirari
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Posted - 2011.05.05 02:23:00 -
[181]
Confirm receipt of dividend, thank you!
On that note, I think I have less cash available than I thought I would. I'd be willing to part with my shares for 115 million each, if anyone is interested, evemail!
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Gei'neille
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Posted - 2011.05.05 02:52:00 -
[182]
Dividend from Rothbard's Casino
From: Sub Account B
Sent: 2011.05.04 21:24
Rothbard's Casino may have credited your account as part of a total payout of 6632631829.0 ISK to their shareholders. The amount awarded is based upon the number of shares you hold, in relation to the total number of shares issued by the corporation.
___________
PCMTF
___________
Prospectus |
Moto Akimoto
|
Posted - 2011.05.05 03:32:00 -
[183]
Bid: 10 shares @ 35,434,951.15 each
Ask: 10 shares @ 354,349,511.46 each
Offer good until 2011-05-11 @ 18:00 UTC
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
Chakirari
|
Posted - 2011.05.05 03:47:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Moto Akimoto
Bid: 10 shares @ 35,434,951.15 each
Ask: 10 shares @ 354,349,511.46 each
Offer good until 2011-05-11 @ 18:00 UTC
Pardon my poor investor fu but does that mean that you pay 35 mill for shares and sell them for 354 million?
I am not one to toot my own horn, but I believe mine is the better offer if that's the case
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Arancar Australis
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Posted - 2011.05.05 13:16:00 -
[185]
Share and dividend received.
Thanks mate!!
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2011.05.05 13:22:00 -
[186]
Doesn't it worry anyone that in the 5 days the thread has been up no one has played at the casino?
The stats page hasn't updated.
But Cosmo you idiot he has just paid a 6B dividend!
Not really. He has only sold 3% of the shares so 97% of the payment goes back to him.
Just watch the value of the shares go up, and then someone fills all the orders.
I think it would be interesting for Block to state if someone adds a huge number of these shares to the exchange.
Also look for random Alts selling shares in near future.
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Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.05.05 13:37:00 -
[187]
Thanks for info dude.
I will tell all the Edwin-Alts in Casino-chat who roleplay casino-customers about it.
Please correct the % numbers in shareholder structure, because right now it is obvious that you have not read the first post in this thread at all.
Greetings
Gatan |
Wyke Mossari
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.05 14:28:00 -
[188]
Originally by: cosmoray
He has only sold 3% of the shares so 97% of the payment goes back to him.
Less, he started with 117 Billion, reports 30 Billion raised and has had an 128-129 Billion Balance for the last three days. A discrepancy of 18-19 billion.
Originally by: cosmoray
Also look for random Alts selling shares in near future.
Agreed, expect alts try to resell that entire discrepancy off the book.
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Chakirari
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:26:00 -
[189]
Posting to confirm I have sold 4 shares for 450 mill moments ago. Pretty good return for the time I held them.
Ed was a pleasant and quick third party to the trade.
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SMX
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:34:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Chakirari
Posting to confirm I have sold 4 shares for 450 mill moments ago. Pretty good return for the time I held them.
Ed was a pleasant and quick third party to the trade.
Confirmed.
Cancelling my old buy offer.
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Moto Akimoto
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Posted - 2011.05.05 20:39:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Chakirari
Originally by: Moto Akimoto
Bid: 10 shares @ 35,434,951.15 each
Ask: 10 shares @ 354,349,511.46 each
Offer good until 2011-05-11 @ 18:00 UTC
Pardon my poor investor fu but does that mean that you pay 35 mill for shares and sell them for 354 million?
I am not one to toot my own horn, but I believe mine is the better offer if that's the case
Hello, Chakirari
Yes, you are correct. Your offer is/was better than mine. Sorry for the late reply. Cheers!
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.05 22:34:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Candy Oshea on 05/05/2011 22:36:56
Is my math right 660,000 isk per share? i made out well at 20m profit for 2 days
EDIT: At the ppl questioning the balance of Edwin, as long as it is above 30b your argument isn't relevant. The guy actively trades, i bought my Mission runner alt a CNR of the market via edwin, i realise this was a while ago, but im still confident he actively trades.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.07 20:22:00 -
[193]
I trained up social, corp management, and ethnic relations yesterday on Sub Account B so she can accept a few non-gallente characters into the casino holding corp.
With help from Gatan we did some testing and figured out that a corp member can view shares of the corp with junior accountant role + 1 corp wallet division access.
I'm looking for an investor to join the corp (and alt is fine) to publish a report of shareholder ownership. I was thinking maybe a monthly google docs spreadsheet listing each shareholder and the number of shares they own would work.
If any of the current shareholders would like to accept this duty please let me know. I'm not against having even two investors join the corp for this purpose if there's enough interest.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
|
Posted - 2011.05.07 20:58:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 07/05/2011 21:02:38
Why?
If its once a month...you could, I dunno...do it yourself?
Edit: If this is a issue of thrustworthiness, I doubt that this would help.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Mining Hole
Gallente
The Rogue Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2011.05.08 15:22:00 -
[195]
Selling 2 shares at 135 mil each.
Not worried about a scam, just a day trader looking to make a profit.
PM or list here.
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Gatan Hahran
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Posted - 2011.05.08 17:09:00 -
[196]
WTB shares 104m each |
Kivorno
|
Posted - 2011.05.08 20:23:00 -
[197]
Also looking to buy shares.
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Gei'neille
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 01:01:00 -
[198]
20 Shares for sale bids starting at 110M
___________
PCMTF
___________
Prospectus |
Bababoee
Amarr
Contractual Obligations
DRACONIAN COVENANT
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 01:55:00 -
[199]
Purchased 10 shares from egola for 110m each.
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Derp Durrr
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 02:21:00 -
[200]
WTB 10 shares. mail me your offers.
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velinqangi
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 02:26:00 -
[201]
just purchased 5 shares from Gei'neille @110m each.
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Gei'neille
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 03:05:00 -
[202]
20 Shares Sold at 110M. No more available.
___________
PCMTF
___________
Prospectus |
Derp Durrr
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 03:06:00 -
[203]
confirming I bought 15 shares @ 110M each from Gei'neille. trustworthy guy, no 3rd party involved.
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Tosh Slicer
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 09:52:00 -
[204]
Looking to buy shares price negotiable
Contact me in game or evemail
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spartan2285
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 13:31:00 -
[205]
Edited by: spartan2285 on 09/05/2011 13:31:57
im interested in buying shares to start anyone willing to sell contact me with price an details.
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Gatan Hahran
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 13:45:00 -
[206]
WTB 105m p/u
WTS 165m p/u |
Zilne Carvet
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 15:08:00 -
[207]
I'm interested in buying 5 shares. Please EveMail offers.
|
Jean Baptiste Johansson
High-Tech Duct Tape
DUCT TAPE UNION
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 15:12:00 -
[208]
Selling 20 shares @ 150 million per unit.
Only selling in groups of 10 shares at a time. If you want less than 10 shares
then don't bother me.
|
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.05.09 15:20:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
I trained up social, corp management, and ethnic relations yesterday on Sub Account B so she can accept a few non-gallente characters into the casino holding corp.
With help from Gatan we did some testing and figured out that a corp member can view shares of the corp with junior accountant role + 1 corp wallet division access.
I'm looking for an investor to join the corp (and alt is fine) to publish a report of shareholder ownership. I was thinking maybe a monthly google docs spreadsheet listing each shareholder and the number of shares they own would work.
If any of the current shareholders would like to accept this duty please let me know. I'm not against having even two investors join the corp for this purpose if there's enough interest.
Candy Oshea contacted me in game and offered to fill this role. She applied to the corp with her trade alt. She's been accepted to the corp and given jr accountant + corp wallet access.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 01:33:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Candy Oshea contacted me in game and offered to fill this role. She applied to the corp with her trade alt. She's been accepted to the corp and given jr accountant + corp wallet access.
Confirming my involvement.
A few notes.
* I am not a shareholder. & Although i speak to Edwin regulary, i will produce un-biased findings.
* I Am not a point of contact for any share/investor relation issues, please contact Edwin Directly via evemail for this.
* I Am not responsible for any dividend payments/Miss-payments.
* I Have no access to any of Edwin's Gambling Site's backend database's.
* I Do Not gamble generally, So im not going to pretend to know everything about Edwin's Casino games.
* I will produce a public report containing, the quantity of shares & who has them, in the interest of transparency for Edwin's Casino business. this is my purpose for being involved. Consisting of a Forum Post & Possibly a google doc, although in the interest of transparency the forum post will likely do.
* I will post with My Trade alt (who has been accepted into Rothbard's Casino corp) which you can backtrace Here proving i (Candy OShea) Purchased the Character & Havent sold it since, thus still in my possesion.
Lastly & most importantly
* This has no bearing on the iCandy series of Collateralized Bonds (Business as usual) I will continue to run iCandy Bonds in the future.
Cheers,
Candy.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Doofen5mirtz
Rothbard's Casino
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 01:36:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Candy Oshea contacted me in game and offered to fill this role. She applied to the corp with her trade alt. She's been accepted to the corp and given jr accountant + corp wallet access.
Confirming my involvement.
A few notes.
* I am not a shareholder. & Although i speak to Edwin regulary, i will produce un-biased findings.
* I Am not a point of contact for any share/investor relation issues, please contact Edwin Directly via evemail for this.
* I Am not responsible for any dividend payments/Miss-payments.
* I Have no access to any of Edwin's Gambling Site's backend database's.
* I Do Not gamble generally, So im not going to pretend to know everything about Edwin's Casino games.
* I will produce a public report containing, the quantity of shares & who has them, in the interest of transparency for Edwin's Casino business. this is my purpose for being involved. Consisting of a Forum Post & Possibly a google doc, although in the interest of transparency the forum post will likely do.
* I will post with My Trade alt (who has been accepted into Rothbard's Casino corp) which you can backtrace Here proving i (Candy OShea) Purchased the Character & Havent sold it since, thus still in my possesion.
Lastly & most importantly
* This has no bearing on the iCandy series of Collateralized Bonds (Business as usual) I will continue to run iCandy Bonds in the future.
Cheers,
Candy.
Hello o/
Posting with my Trader, if anyone has seen the cartoon, Phineas & Ferb you will understand why i made his potrait like this
Cheers,
Candy.
__
iCandy Trader |
Jean Baptiste Johansson
High-Tech Duct Tape
DUCT TAPE UNION
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 15:52:00 -
[212]
Update.
Just sold 10 shares @ 150 million per unit.
Have 10 more to sell if anyone is interested.
Thanks to Edwin for being the 3rd party in the transaction.
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Tyrin Toryu
Gallente
Detrimental Imperative
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Posted - 2011.05.10 16:06:00 -
[213]
Thanks to both Jean and Edwin :)
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spartan2285
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 -
[214]
still willing to but share's. any willing seller's please give me an offer in an eve-mail.
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
High-Tech Duct Tape
DUCT TAPE UNION
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:16:00 -
[215]
Update.
Sold 4 shares.
Somebody make me an offer for the last 6 shares.
Make my naughty bits tingle. 
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Derp Durrr
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:37:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Derp Durrr on 12/05/2011 00:37:25
I might have a few shares for sale. PM me your offers and I¦ll see what I can do
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Moto Akimoto
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Posted - 2011.05.12 05:44:00 -
[217]
Dividend from Rothbard's Casino
From: Sub Account B
Sent: 2011.05.12 00:16
Rothbard's Casino may have credited your account as part of a total payout of 7712673078.0 ISK to their shareholders. The amount awarded is based upon the number of shares you hold, in relation to the total number of shares issued by the corporation.
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
Moto Akimoto
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Posted - 2011.05.12 05:58:00 -
[218]
Bid: 10 shares @ 40,530,252.84 each
Ask: 10 shares @ 405,301,137.93 each
Offer good until 2011-05-18 @ 18:00 UTC
__________________________________
Hello, I sell Rookie ships in bulk. The minimum order value is a gazillion isk. Inquire within. |
Catho Sharn
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:15:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Jean Baptiste Johansson
Somebody make me an offer for the last 6 shares.
Make my naughty bits tingle.
Confirming purchase of 6 shares from Jean Baptiste via direct transfer.
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Mining Hole
Gallente
The Rogue Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:18:00 -
[220]
I don't want to miss out on a quick buck!
I own 2 shares that I'm willing to part with for 150mil each.
Perfect for a first time investor!
Reply here or PM me in game.
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
High-Tech Duct Tape
DUCT TAPE UNION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:19:00 -
[221]
Yep, Catho got my last 6 shares.
That was a fun ride in the land of shares.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:38:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Jean Baptiste Johansson
Yep, Catho got my last 6 shares.
That was a fun ride in the land of shares.
'
You did quite well didn't you
Ill update the share spreadsheet over the weekend.
Candy.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
High-Tech Duct Tape
DUCT TAPE UNION
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:01:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Originally by: Jean Baptiste Johansson
Yep, Catho got my last 6 shares.
That was a fun ride in the land of shares.
'
You did quite well didn't you
Ill update the share spreadsheet over the weekend.
Candy.
Considering I had too do nothing in order to make a groovalicious profit then yes I did.
I was really surprised by passion of the people who wanted them.
Hopefully when my IPO goes public I see a quarter of the interest.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:16:00 -
[224]
My father died unexpectedly Thursday morning. I have not been in eve much since then. I'm going to be away from eve for some time. I do not know how long this might be.
The casino is a customer-service driven business. Without me here the customer experience and earnings will both suffer. Thus I am offering to buy back shares held by the public. I am offering 105m or what you paid for the shares whichever is greater. If you bought the IPO shares and still hold them I will pay 105m a share. If you bought shares in the secondary market for say 130m/share I will pay you 130m a share. I screenshotted the shareholder list this morning so any share sales that happen in the secondary market after this post are not eligible for this buyback offer. Anyone misrepresenting what they paid for their shares in an attempt to get more than they deserve will receive nothing.
You are advised to add me to your watch list. If you wish to sell your shares back to me, please contact me directly via convo in game. Do not send me your shares unannounced. There is no way in game to tell who sent shares and if you send them to me before I can verify how many I am currently holding I will have no way to verify it. If you send your shares before you've contacted me in game and have been told that it's ok to send me your shares you will receive nothing.
If you wish to keep the shares you are welcome to do so, but I cannot guarantee that I will be available to run the casino or that I would be able to send dividends on time.
Edwin
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:23:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
My father died unexpectedly Thursday morning. I have not been in eve much since then. I'm going to be away from eve for some time. I do not know how long this might be.
The casino is a customer-service driven business. Without me here the customer experience and earnings will both suffer. Thus I am offering to buy back shares held by the public. I am offering 105m or what you paid for the shares whichever is greater. If you bought the IPO shares and still hold them I will pay 105m a share. If you bought shares in the secondary market for say 130m/share I will pay you 130m a share. I screenshotted the shareholder list this morning so any share sales that happen in the secondary market after this post are not eligible for this buyback offer. Anyone misrepresenting what they paid for their shares in an attempt to get more than they deserve will receive nothing.
You are advised to add me to your watch list. If you wish to sell your shares back to me, please contact me directly via convo in game. Do not send me your shares unannounced. There is no way in game to tell who sent shares and if you send them to me before I can verify how many I am currently holding I will have no way to verify it. If you send your shares before you've contacted me in game and have been told that it's ok to send me your shares you will receive nothing.
If you wish to keep the shares you are welcome to do so, but I cannot guarantee that I will be available to run the casino or that I would be able to send dividends on time.
Edwin
Sorry about your loss, Ed.
My condolences and best wishes. I'll drop a line when I see you on next.
-Tutskii
Go make a new disaster, that's what I'm counting on. You're someone else's problem, now I only want you gone... |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:27:00 -
[226]
..I'm very sorry about your loss. My mother is close to my heart, and I can't even bring myself to think about her future passing.
To future posters - Ed has offered a very fair buy back. If all goes smoothly, let's try to keep this thread classy.
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Chakirari
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:55:00 -
[227]
Posting to echo the sentiment.
Ed has proven a more than capable and respectable bond runner and its a shame that this happened.
Best wishes Ed.
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Tosh Slicer
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:50:00 -
[228]
Ed is simply the nice guy of eve And probably a very nice guy in real life
My best wishes from me and my family to you and yours
As of the shares i will think about the fair option you propose.
Your respectfully TOSH
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Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.17 23:00:00 -
[229]
Ed,
Im very sorry for your loss, Go be with your family, im sure your investors will be patient enough to Understand RL > internet spaceship Casino.
When i get home from work ill Collate the Spreadsheet & post it publically. This will ensure the public has a record of the buyback.
Hope to see you soon,
Candy.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Catho Sharn
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Posted - 2011.05.20 12:17:00 -
[230]
First, my condolences for your loss Edwin.
Second, confirming receipt of May 19 dividend.
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Derp Durrr
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Posted - 2011.05.20 14:22:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Derp Durrr on 20/05/2011 14:22:28
Ed,
I can¦t begin to immagine the impact a situation like this must have on you. I wish you all the strength and power of mind to recover from this terrible tragedy, to you and your family.
I will contact you about the shares I hold at this moment, but all in due time. for now, my condolences.
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Sadhiq
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Posted - 2011.05.31 22:33:00 -
[232]
Please reserve me 5 shares ! 
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Sadhiq
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:38:00 -
[233]
Wow, I replied to the thread without reading all the pages... 
Sorry for your loss, I truly understand the feeling.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.06.07 00:14:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Sadhiq
Wow, I replied to the thread without reading all the pages...
Easy to do since it is a long thread.
There are still 195 outstanding shares that haven't been sold back to me. I continue to pay dividends, but they are significantly lower than they were historically. I've only been able to log in about once every 3 days or so. Surprisingly, the casino operates very smoothly even without me around.
regards,
Edwin
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:42:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Sadhiq
Wow, I replied to the thread without reading all the pages...
Easy to do since it is a long thread.
There are still 195 outstanding shares that haven't been sold back to me. I continue to pay dividends, but they are significantly lower than they were historically. I've only been able to log in about once every 3 days or so. Surprisingly, the casino operates very smoothly even without me around.
regards,
Edwin
Yeah I noticed Been trying to catch you online to sell back my shares.
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Krythas
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Posted - 2011.06.13 23:47:00 -
[236]
Confirming shares returned and payment made. All the best Ed.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 00:04:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Breaker77
Yeah I noticed Been trying to catch you online to sell back my shares.
Sorry I keep missing you breaker. Eventually we will make contact. To date i've repurchased 150 shares. There are still 160 shares outstanding. Some of the investors seem content to hold their shares for now even with the lower returns. I also paid this weeks dividends today.
enjoy,
Edwin
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:06:00 -
[238]
I sent the weekly dividend payment today:
Rothbard's Casino may have credited your account as part of a total payout of 7,516,051,554.0 ISK to their shareholders. The amount awarded is based upon the number of shares you hold, in relation to the total number of shares issued by the corporation.
There are currently 145 Rothbard's Casino shares held by the public. I continue to hold 7,355 shares and Zeeawk holds the remaining 2,500. I believe the investors who hold the remaining shares are happy to keep them at this point as i've had no new redemption requests in quite some time.
For the first time in a couple months I've been able to log in for more than 1 hour every 3 days or so. You can see that revenues increase substantially when i'm in game to help and interact with the customers. In recent weeks revenues were about 1.2b a week. Still not bad for something that runs on autopilot when i'm not here.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:36:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
There are currently 145 Rothbard's Casino shares held by the public. I continue to hold 7,355 shares and Zeeawk holds the remaining 2,500. I believe the investors who hold the remaining shares are happy to keep them at this point as i've had no new redemption requests in quite some time.
Welcome back.
I got the impression that the investors were happy to hang onto the shares also. Please note I have since left the casino holding corp (if you scroll up you can see 'Doofen5mirtz' is now in a NPC corp.)
If you plan to re-open shares for sale at anytime, im happy to fill that role again.
___
iCandy Bonds
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Catho Sharn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:25:00 -
[240]
I'm one of the shareholders, and, so long as you're happy running the place and paying dividends, I'm happy to continue holding shares. I did notice a rather dramatic increase in the payout this week.
Welcome back, hope your life is returning to an even keel.
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morrosis
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Posted - 2011.07.27 06:33:00 -
[241]
What is the weekly payou to shareholders per share at this point in time?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.07.27 07:02:00 -
[242]
Originally by: morrosis
What is the weekly payou to shareholders per share at this point in time?
The highest weekly earnings to date were 14b isk. that translated into 1.4m isk/share. The lowest weekly earnings was about 1b thus 100k isk/share.
If you want to create an account at www.rothbards.com and send me an eve mail in game I can set your account to investor status which will give you access to the dividend history chart. From that you can see what the weekly payouts have been.
Edwin
[ Casino | Loans ] |
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