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Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 11:30:00 - [31] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 11:31:52 Originally by: Hello Overthere I beg to differ... PvP is being born anew. Making this thread was worth it, if for no other reason then to have generated the comment above. Made me lul IRL...that is like, sig worthy. Just wow... LOL I can't tell you how many old friends I have seen leave eve, come back and say "WTF when did PVP become such a *** fest" But I guess many of those ***'s post here on the forums yea?
Chandaris Gallente Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2011.05.04 11:56:00 - [32] I do have to agree with the general sentiment. PVP was a lot more exciting (for me anyways) before: - warp to zero - carriers & supercaps - Tech 2 RR and Tech 3 ships
Vernn Miller Caldari Dreddit	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:14:00 - [33] Ohh it`s this thread again. Okay...
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:18:51 yea that one filled with chicken**** forum alts Also WTB forums before everyone wanted to be a goonswarmtroll. A little creativity is nice every now and again... just saying.
Vernn Miller Caldari Dreddit	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Vernn Miller on 04/05/2011 12:24:53 Unlike some I do post with my main . I wonder how do you teach people to pvp? *** and moan and hope that the other guy gets so tired of yer ** that he self destructs his ship? ~elite pvp~
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:29:00 - [36] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:29:05 Well sir this would be forum PVP And I tell my recruits that PVP in EVE has taken a downward spiral in the past two years in the first week. That is why we only train to do fleet worked with stupid amounts of logistics. That is what EVE is now. It has turned into WOW.
Alexandra Delarge The Korova	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:29:05 That is why we only train to do fleet worked with stupid amounts of logistics. That is what EVE is now. It has turned into WOW. You chose that playstyle. Suck it up Mr 220 kills since 03.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:05:00 - [38] It seems to me that people only complain about blobs when their blob loses to another blob. Griefers wailing about people getting smart to their tricks and cutting them off at the start is evolutions mastery at work. eventually the griefers with any luck will simply be out classed.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 13:11:08 Originally by: Alexandra Delarge Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:29:05 That is why we only train to do fleet worked with stupid amounts of logistics. That is what EVE is now. It has turned into WOW. You chose that playstyle. Suck it up Mr 220 kills since 03. At least I am posting on my main logi/command toon where as your posting with an alt that has 0 kills and one loss (also this character was only born in 08) So who is your main BTW? Oh that's right, your scared of something in game.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 13:15:02 Originally by: Camron Champagne It seems to me that people only complain about blobs when their blob loses to another blob. Griefers wailing about people getting smart to their tricks and cutting them off at the start is evolutions mastery at work. eventually the griefers with any luck will simply be out classed. Where as i'd say blobs out blobbing blobs is pretty crappy gameplay, and griefing/scam PVP is pretty weak too.

Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 13:15:02 Originally by: Camron Champagne It seems to me that people only complain about blobs when their blob loses to another blob. Griefers wailing about people getting smart to their tricks and cutting them off at the start is evolutions mastery at work. eventually the griefers with any luck will simply be out classed. Where as i'd say blobs out blobbing blobs is pretty crappy gameplay, and griefing/scam PVP is pretty weak too. Eve by nature encourages if not forces anyone who wants to make it in dangerous space into grouping with like minded individuals and working together for their common good. Basically eve plays in to the natural human tendency to form beneficial social groups and then leverage them. Did you actually expect people to run off into battle alone and leave their well armed friends behind? That would be foolish and unnecessary. It sounds like you want people to make themselves available to you alone or in small easily managed pairs or triplets for you to kill like belt rats and that's never going to happen.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:30:00 - [42] Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them. Decry it of you like but it works. It also works repeatedly in multiple situations and circumstances. The fact that so many people such as yourself lament social leveraged fleets and en mass defense/offence is a testament to it's proficiency. That is not to say that there is not some way to use the nature of socially leveraged fleets to destroy/disassemble them it's just that no one has figured one out yet.
Aeronwen Carys Empire of Dust	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:43:00 - [44] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. You're doing it wrong.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 14:13:00 - [45] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 14:14:03 Originally by: Camron Champagne Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them. Decry it of you like but it works. It also works repeatedly in multiple situations and circumstances. The fact that so many people such as yourself lament social leveraged fleets and en mass defense/offence is a testament to it's proficiency. That is not to say that there is not some way to use the nature of socially leveraged fleets to destroy/disassemble them it's just that no one has figured one out yet. What you are using to stroke your internet "Brain-Epeen" is nothing more then ****ty one-dimensional programing. But by all means keep right on, the truth is half of the forum dwellers think the same way you do. Creativity is not nearly as commonplace as mindless herds of sheep.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 14:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 14:14:03 Originally by: Camron Champagne Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them. Decry it of you like but it works. It also works repeatedly in multiple situations and circumstances. The fact that so many people such as yourself lament social leveraged fleets and en mass defense/offence is a testament to it's proficiency. That is not to say that there is not some way to use the nature of socially leveraged fleets to destroy/disassemble them it's just that no one has figured one out yet. What you are using to stroke your internet "Brain-Epeen" is nothing more then ****ty one-dimensional programing. But by all means keep right on, the truth is half of the forum dwellers think the same way you do. Creativity is not nearly as commonplace as mindless herds of sheep. I think the real issue here is those who want some kind of small scale or solo PvP being extingished simply because they can't compete with the large social groups head on. But head on is not the only way to go, so if you want to play in small groups or solo you'll have to adapt to the large groups to survive, period.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:09:00 - [47] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:09:31 Camron Champagne, just FYI, assumption that you know what other people want and/or are thinking is the most classic failing of people who think they are "smarter then average" Thank you for proving the stereotype once more
Hermosa Diosas The Scope	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:09:00 - [48] fully agree with op, not as much fun and just full of blobs and super hotdrops..sadly eve is nowhere near as good as it used to be..
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:21:00 - [49] ITT people who never read the Art of War complain about the tactics described therein. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:25:00 - [50] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:26:41 Originally by: Cipher Jones ITT people who never read the Art of War complain about the tactics described therein. Quoting yet another mmo gamer thinking the "Art of War" is something that they can possibly understand because they read a poorly translated English version that they bought off of Ebay. Most likely he did so only once and quite possibly bridged through the dull parts, and now thinks he can apply the art of "real war" to a video game. I laugh at you forum warrior.

Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:30:00 - [51] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:26:41 Originally by: Cipher Jones ITT people who never read the Art of War complain about the tactics described therein. Quoting yet another mmo gamer thinking the "Art of War" is something that they can possibly understand because they read a poorly translated English version that they bought off of Ebay. Most likely he did so only once and quite possibly bridged through the dull parts, and now thinks he can apply the art of "real war" to a video game. I laugh at you forum warrior. You're the one creating a whine thread and saying the game isn't fun, and I'm the one playing the game AFK having fun waiting to PvP with my friends. Understanding indeed good sir. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:33:00 - [52] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:33:36 Ummm... I don't see how that is a retort, but if if makes you feel better more power to ya. *Have fun AFK'ing in a massive multiplayer video game while your stuck waiting to for something fun to happen.* What you just said, is massive part of the issue as well.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:37:00 - [53] You're the one creating a whine thread and saying the game isn't fun, and I'm the one playing the game AFK having fun waiting to PvP with my friends. Understanding indeed good sir. Thank you for educating us on "The Art of War" it's too bad that it won't help you survive the socially leveraged players. Simply put: your outdated, outmoded and out of options.
Drunx Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:44:00 - [54] A bit of a mess in this topic... BUT there is some true thought which exists in this direction. TL;DR - Rich guys own bums! <--- very shortened! better read it all. PVP Changed a lot. But it changed to the way CCP wants it to be changed. With all the speed nerfing and further balancing, CCP pushed through the concept of cooperation more then ever before. Basically this means that SOLO is not appreciated anymore and deems away day by day. Today, PVP is all about your fleet. How many? Which ships? Which tactics? and so on. Previously PVP was more... spontaneous so to say. Today it is a rare case scenario that upon engaging into a fight, you will get adequate resistance from your enemy. In 90% of the cases it is all about blobing or "wallet challenging". And wallet challenging is the 2-nd factor which CHANGES PVP a lot. Look at the average wealth of today's players. It is waaayyy higher then in 2005. Look at the prices of the ships? They are more or less the same - meaning they didn't change as much as someones wealth changed. This brings us to the fact that today, more players can afford bigger ships, better modules and so on. In 2005, having a slave set, even low-grade, was something "WOW! WTF! OMG!" today - it's much more affordable. There are more and more faction ships used in PVP, which would be also very notable event in 2005. The average "PVP level" - if measured in ship value, modules - whatever - is much higher now. The amount of new players - is not so big to fill in the gap between those in the top and in the bottom. Look at this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9504741 If you now go back in time and show it to yourself in 2005 (if you were playing even at those times)) - you would be blinded.... So this is the good illustration of that the pvp level has advanced a lot because of the fact that the wealth raised too, though the market didn't fully followed that trend. Which made PVP extremely cheap for one group and still tough for the other group. And basically, it is all linked to the time=isks factor. CCP made more possibilities for earning iskies, but they are all still quite much dependent on time you are ready to spend in the game. Sooo....:)) It is not dying, but it is trasforming. Not for good and not for bad, but to some different concept then it was in 2005. Though the fact that there is something wrong with the economy in eve - is true. If it all goes this way - the value of pvp, value of experience and tactics and preparation for the fights and so on, will sank in the factor of wealthiness. And Tranquility will become Singularity.
StuRyan	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:48:00 - [55] Erm i am sure there is a word that summarises this up: Oh yes Evolution!
Drunx Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:53:00 - [56] ... hard to say. it could be also - extinction.
StuRyan	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Drunx ... hard to say. it could be also - extinction. SOLO pvp = I am afriad to say i think yes, unless hunting ratters, but doh they took away ma sanctums. Fleet Battles = Hell No
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 16:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Drunx A bit of a mess in this topic... BUT there is some true thought which exists in this direction. TL;DR - Rich guys own bums! <--- very shortened! better read it all. PVP Changed a lot. But it changed to the way CCP wants it to be changed. With all the speed nerfing and further balancing, CCP pushed through the concept of cooperation more then ever before. Basically this means that SOLO is not appreciated anymore and deems away day by day. Today, PVP is all about your fleet. How many? Which ships? Which tactics? and so on. Previously PVP was more... spontaneous so to say. Today it is a rare case scenario that upon engaging into a fight, you will get adequate resistance from your enemy. In 90% of the cases it is all about blobing or "wallet challenging". And wallet challenging is the 2-nd factor which CHANGES PVP a lot. Look at the average wealth of today's players. It is waaayyy higher then in 2005. Look at the prices of the ships? They are more or less the same - meaning they didn't change as much as someones wealth changed. This brings us to the fact that today, more players can afford bigger ships, better modules and so on. In 2005, having a slave set, even low-grade, was something "WOW! WTF! OMG!" today - it's much more affordable. There are more and more faction ships used in PVP, which would be also very notable event in 2005. The average "PVP level" - if measured in ship value, modules - whatever - is much higher now. The amount of new players - is not so big to fill in the gap between those in the top and in the bottom. Look at this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9504741 If you now go back in time and show it to yourself in 2005 (if you were playing even at those times)) - you would be blinded.... So this is the good illustration of that the pvp level has advanced a lot because of the fact that the wealth raised too, though the market didn't fully followed that trend. Which made PVP extremely cheap for one group and still tough for the other group. And basically, it is all linked to the time=isks factor. CCP made more possibilities for earning iskies, but they are all still quite much dependent on time you are ready to spend in the game. Sooo....:)) It is not dying, but it is trasforming. Not for good and not for bad, but to some different concept then it was in 2005. Though the fact that there is something wrong with the economy in eve - is true. If it all goes this way - the value of pvp, value of experience and tactics and preparation for the fights and so on, will sank in the factor of wealthiness. And Tranquility will become Singularity. ^ This is the best worded and most percise anwser to this entire thread. Copy it and paste it to everything Eve related you have.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 16:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:33:36 Ummm... I don't see how that is a retort, but if if makes you feel better more power to ya. *Have fun AFK'ing in a massive multiplayer video game while your stuck waiting to for something fun to happen.* What you just said, is massive part of the issue as well. Lol keep crying about how bad it sucks or go somewhere where its better. Vote with your dollar. I have a job and I can make money at EvE while I am at said job. If that's a problem for you then please go play a game that doesn't allow this. EvE has allowed this since the first day there was a blueprint to manufacture and a sell order to be made. The only MMO I have ever played or heard of that you cant do this is guild wars as you cant make items and you have to be at the keyboard to sell. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Narome Bandur	Posted - 2011.05.04 17:19:00 - [60] ^ Too much wind to say "If you don't like it leave". It still doesn't address the OP's concerns it merely says they're not legitimate without providing the reason for why you believe the concerns are illegitimate.



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