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Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 00:48:00 - [1] WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content.
FatRaps	Posted - 2011.05.04 00:50:00 - [2] I wish you would die
Cynosaurus Rexx	Posted - 2011.05.04 00:54:00 - [3] I also wish you would die and spare the community your dribble
Sir Bear Carington	Posted - 2011.05.04 00:55:00 - [4] All is collating as I have forseen.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.04 01:07:00 - [5] I got a subscription to E-ON last year. Was just pure comedy. Battle Reports: Month after month of "so-and-so was winning, node crashed, other side holds the field" Dev Interviews: "Nah I mainly play WoW, getting the job here was the first I heard of Eve" Was funny seeing it on glossy pages.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 01:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Dev Interviews: "Nah I mainly play WoW, getting the job here was the first I heard of Eve" Actually... That explains a hell of allot lol
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.05.04 03:28:00 - [7] The only part of your thread I might argue with is the part about there ever being PvP in EVE. It's strategic griefing, not PvP. All battles are and always have been so one sided it might as well be PvE. Strategic Griefing is now dying too though as more and more people make fewer and fewer mistakes. I have 4 mains, 8 escort scouts. Each main has an escort scout in system and one in adjecent system. Intell like that kills the only EVE strategy that was ever available. My stupidity. More and more people are figuring out that unless you avoid PvP and grind your guts out for potentially years you never get ahead. You play a 2 steps forward 3 steps back game. We will never get back 2005 because we will never see enough true new players to a game that is renowned for its griefing, scamming, meta gaming and linear class systems.
Hello Overthere	Posted - 2011.05.04 03:48:00 - [8] I beg to differ... PvP is being born anew.
Traejun DiSanctis Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.04 03:52:00 - [9] Edited by: Traejun DiSanctis on 04/05/2011 03:53:29 Originally by: Hello Overthere I beg to differ... PvP is being born anew. If by PvP you mean 5-on-1 gate camps, probing out carebears running missions to grief them into shooting at you, or corp roams waxing random solo's in lowsec...then, yes...PvP is being born anew Edit: This is an old game. This is what happens in old games. As time goes on, certain groups flourish, thereby gaining power...while other groups compete and then fade away. After enough time has passed, the vast majority of the power will be in the hands of those that won the fight for resources/power near the beginning. Working as intended.
NeoShocker Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.05.04 04:20:00 - [10] dunno about you OP, but I had a blast pvping today, camping hed, despite being outnumbered, we're killing and me earning 90m from 3 intact armor plates. ----------------------------------- Peace through power!
Tullaris Iceblade	Posted - 2011.05.04 04:45:00 - [11] I know right?? I was fighting in an Astarte today and I lost! I'll switch to my deimos tomorrow and let you know how it goes, if THAT doesn't work I just don't know what I'll do
Hello Overthere	Posted - 2011.05.04 04:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis If by PvP you mean 5-on-1 gate camps, probing out carebears running missions to grief them into shooting at you, or corp roams waxing random solo's in lowsec...then, yes...PvP is being born anew well, im new to the game, (7 months old) so it is to me :P.. come back in time, the possibilities are limitless :)
Brannor McThife Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.05.04 05:01:00 - [13] Edited by: Brannor McThife on 04/05/2011 05:01:40 Originally by: Ioci The only part of your thread I might argue with is the part about there ever being PvP in EVE. It's strategic griefing, not PvP. All battles are and always have been so one sided it might as well be PvE. Originally by: Hello Overthere I beg to differ... PvP is being born anew. If by PvP you mean 5-on-1 gate camps, probing out carebears running missions to grief them into shooting at you, or corp roams waxing random solo's in lowsec...then, yes...PvP is being born anew Um, I don't think it's always as bad as you say... perhaps there are too many NAPs and too many mega coalitions... Long live NPC 0.0! 5 v 10 Battle Report
Hectanooga	Posted - 2011.05.04 05:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Tullaris Iceblade I know right?? I was fighting in an Astarte today and I lost! I'll switch to my deimos tomorrow and let you know how it goes, if THAT doesn't work I just don't know what I'll do Supposedly, and don't quote me on this, but the more PLEX you have in your cargo hold, the more likely you are to win at PVP. It's a little known game mechanic, but it's totally real. I'm super cereal.
Gothikia	Posted - 2011.05.04 07:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Dev Interviews: "Nah I mainly play WoW, getting the job here was the first I heard of Eve" Actually... That explains a hell of allot lol Oh Jesus ****ing Christ CCP... you haven't hired wowf ags have you? I AM DISAPPOINT! __ Gothie <3
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.04 07:13:00 - [16] Even gatecamping in Rens or old style roaming in 0.0 ratting and mining systems beat the situation were PvP is decided by the number or RR ships and even in lowsec a battle is often decided by carrier hotdrop and counter hotdrop. PvP is not dying, it is already dead. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research.	Posted - 2011.05.04 07:17:00 - [17] WTB 2003 pvp where there were no mod stacking penalties
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.04 07:23:00 - [18] PvP is alive and well, although I'll admit its a lot harder to find someone who actually wants to fight and there are lots more risk free PvPers around like BURN EDEN, people using falcon alts, Lukka style station camping with carrier, and Dramiels. I really miss the old Providence too, back when you could log in, get a fight or die in a fire within 15 minutes. Beats the new providence where you roam for hours and don't get a fight at all or some ****** expects you to fight his curse in a taranis... yeah. But really, there is PvP out there, it's hard to find, but it's out there. I recommend heading over to the My Eve section of the forums and watching Zachs new video, there are a bunch of videos by our very own Prometheus Exanthal there, as well as several others which might give you some inspiration. Majority of people saying it's dead are people who aren't looking for it. ---
Victor Karn	Posted - 2011.05.04 07:27:00 - [19] Makes a change, normally it's Eve is dying.
Joslin Kra	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:01:00 - [20] pvp is dying due to nubs wanting to 'win' and they only know how to win by out blobbing the others.. how quickly can you alpha as many ships as they try to get out from the 20 vs 60 blob they brought 'for the luls' including caps
Alissa Solette	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Ioci I have 4 mains, 8 escort scouts. Each main has an escort scout in system and one in adjecent system. Intell like that kills the only EVE strategy that was ever available. My stupidity. More and more people are figuring out that unless you avoid PvP and grind your guts out for potentially years you never get ahead. You play a 2 steps forward 3 steps back game. What are you "grinding your guts out" for if you don't PVP? Hate to break it to you but PVP is basically the only thing that you can spend that ISK on. Unless you like to simply buy ships and then spin them in hangar all day (in which case you would be better off installing a 3d program and spin the models in there - then you also don't have to be all scared about the ebil griefers). IMO you should grow a pair, join a decent alliance and learn to play. Then you also wouldn't have to be so paranoid.
San Severina Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:08:00 - [22] If all you bitter vet forum whiners logged on & got a fleet together you'd do some damage. Seriously, play the game, or don't but spare us your tantrums here please! __________________________________________________ No sympathy for the Devil! Always remember that....
Amaron Ghant Caldari Tritanium Space Whales	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:08:00 - [23] PvP is Dying? Same old Same old An "old" hand singing an old tune
Iggy Stooge	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:15:00 - [24] No, PvP is killing.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. Confirming interceptor pilots are stupid.
Aubrey Addams	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Dev Interviews: "Nah I mainly play WoW, getting the job here was the first I heard of Eve" Actually... That explains a hell of allot lol Have you ever played WOW-PVP?
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:29:00 - [27] Originally by: NeoShocker dunno about you OP, but I had a blast pvping today, camping hed, despite being outnumbered, we're killing and me earning 90m from 3 intact armor plates. Yes camping Jita 4-4 is the thrill of your lifetime -------------- Fix the game's last broken weapon system - support if you care!
Justice Comes	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:35:00 - [28] Quote: The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Stupider is as stupider does.
exlore Intelligent Concepts Inc	Posted - 2011.05.04 10:50:00 - [29] PVP is dead, you die to quickly... Ammo damage should be cut by 200% so atleast you actualy get to fight and see it. Plus pilots need an in ship view. Apart from being a massive time sink trying to find a fair fight... All these current updates are basically not improving the game. And no you cant have my stuff...
Multimedia Carl	Posted - 2011.05.04 11:10:00 - [30] PVP ain't dead Fleet pvp is just what eve is about But for us who likes to be on our own, soloing around, it has only become 600x times as hard then it was back in the days. This is partly because CCP likes to almost force us into fleets, by making changes that only makes Fleet fights easier. Solo has almost come down to sitting on station/gates, camping for security of you own well being, as if a blob could arrive any moment ( which it can today ). People who has the isk to risk going out on long range roams on their own, only to be blown up by the blob in the end, are all that is left og real Soloers. But for us who hardly ever has isk, it sure as hell havent been easy lately. Overpopulation is partly to blame for blobs atm, give us like 2000 new systems with 2 new trade hub systems with highsec and low sec, and it might help ?
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 11:30:00 - [31] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 11:31:52 Originally by: Hello Overthere I beg to differ... PvP is being born anew. Making this thread was worth it, if for no other reason then to have generated the comment above. Made me lul IRL...that is like, sig worthy. Just wow... LOL I can't tell you how many old friends I have seen leave eve, come back and say "WTF when did PVP become such a *** fest" But I guess many of those ***'s post here on the forums yea?
Chandaris Gallente Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2011.05.04 11:56:00 - [32] I do have to agree with the general sentiment. PVP was a lot more exciting (for me anyways) before: - warp to zero - carriers & supercaps - Tech 2 RR and Tech 3 ships
Vernn Miller Caldari Dreddit	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:14:00 - [33] Ohh it`s this thread again. Okay...
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:18:51 yea that one filled with chicken**** forum alts Also WTB forums before everyone wanted to be a goonswarmtroll. A little creativity is nice every now and again... just saying.
Vernn Miller Caldari Dreddit	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Vernn Miller on 04/05/2011 12:24:53 Unlike some I do post with my main . I wonder how do you teach people to pvp? *** and moan and hope that the other guy gets so tired of yer ** that he self destructs his ship? ~elite pvp~
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:29:00 - [36] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:29:05 Well sir this would be forum PVP And I tell my recruits that PVP in EVE has taken a downward spiral in the past two years in the first week. That is why we only train to do fleet worked with stupid amounts of logistics. That is what EVE is now. It has turned into WOW.
Alexandra Delarge The Korova	Posted - 2011.05.04 12:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:29:05 That is why we only train to do fleet worked with stupid amounts of logistics. That is what EVE is now. It has turned into WOW. You chose that playstyle. Suck it up Mr 220 kills since 03.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:05:00 - [38] It seems to me that people only complain about blobs when their blob loses to another blob. Griefers wailing about people getting smart to their tricks and cutting them off at the start is evolutions mastery at work. eventually the griefers with any luck will simply be out classed.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 13:11:08 Originally by: Alexandra Delarge Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 12:29:05 That is why we only train to do fleet worked with stupid amounts of logistics. That is what EVE is now. It has turned into WOW. You chose that playstyle. Suck it up Mr 220 kills since 03. At least I am posting on my main logi/command toon where as your posting with an alt that has 0 kills and one loss (also this character was only born in 08) So who is your main BTW? Oh that's right, your scared of something in game.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 13:15:02 Originally by: Camron Champagne It seems to me that people only complain about blobs when their blob loses to another blob. Griefers wailing about people getting smart to their tricks and cutting them off at the start is evolutions mastery at work. eventually the griefers with any luck will simply be out classed. Where as i'd say blobs out blobbing blobs is pretty crappy gameplay, and griefing/scam PVP is pretty weak too.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 13:15:02 Originally by: Camron Champagne It seems to me that people only complain about blobs when their blob loses to another blob. Griefers wailing about people getting smart to their tricks and cutting them off at the start is evolutions mastery at work. eventually the griefers with any luck will simply be out classed. Where as i'd say blobs out blobbing blobs is pretty crappy gameplay, and griefing/scam PVP is pretty weak too. Eve by nature encourages if not forces anyone who wants to make it in dangerous space into grouping with like minded individuals and working together for their common good. Basically eve plays in to the natural human tendency to form beneficial social groups and then leverage them. Did you actually expect people to run off into battle alone and leave their well armed friends behind? That would be foolish and unnecessary. It sounds like you want people to make themselves available to you alone or in small easily managed pairs or triplets for you to kill like belt rats and that's never going to happen.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:30:00 - [42] Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them. Decry it of you like but it works. It also works repeatedly in multiple situations and circumstances. The fact that so many people such as yourself lament social leveraged fleets and en mass defense/offence is a testament to it's proficiency. That is not to say that there is not some way to use the nature of socially leveraged fleets to destroy/disassemble them it's just that no one has figured one out yet.
Aeronwen Carys Empire of Dust	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:43:00 - [44] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. You're doing it wrong.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 14:13:00 - [45] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 14:14:03 Originally by: Camron Champagne Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them. Decry it of you like but it works. It also works repeatedly in multiple situations and circumstances. The fact that so many people such as yourself lament social leveraged fleets and en mass defense/offence is a testament to it's proficiency. That is not to say that there is not some way to use the nature of socially leveraged fleets to destroy/disassemble them it's just that no one has figured one out yet. What you are using to stroke your internet "Brain-Epeen" is nothing more then ****ty one-dimensional programing. But by all means keep right on, the truth is half of the forum dwellers think the same way you do. Creativity is not nearly as commonplace as mindless herds of sheep.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 14:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 14:14:03 Originally by: Camron Champagne Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Classic 0.0 carebear argument, but thx for bringing this into the discussion What you mean to say is "man's natural human tendency to herd like mindless cattle" and follow one or two alpha dogs who will do all the thinking for them. Decry it of you like but it works. It also works repeatedly in multiple situations and circumstances. The fact that so many people such as yourself lament social leveraged fleets and en mass defense/offence is a testament to it's proficiency. That is not to say that there is not some way to use the nature of socially leveraged fleets to destroy/disassemble them it's just that no one has figured one out yet. What you are using to stroke your internet "Brain-Epeen" is nothing more then ****ty one-dimensional programing. But by all means keep right on, the truth is half of the forum dwellers think the same way you do. Creativity is not nearly as commonplace as mindless herds of sheep. I think the real issue here is those who want some kind of small scale or solo PvP being extingished simply because they can't compete with the large social groups head on. But head on is not the only way to go, so if you want to play in small groups or solo you'll have to adapt to the large groups to survive, period.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:09:00 - [47] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:09:31 Camron Champagne, just FYI, assumption that you know what other people want and/or are thinking is the most classic failing of people who think they are "smarter then average" Thank you for proving the stereotype once more
Hermosa Diosas The Scope	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:09:00 - [48] fully agree with op, not as much fun and just full of blobs and super hotdrops..sadly eve is nowhere near as good as it used to be..
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:21:00 - [49] ITT people who never read the Art of War complain about the tactics described therein. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:25:00 - [50] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:26:41 Originally by: Cipher Jones ITT people who never read the Art of War complain about the tactics described therein. Quoting yet another mmo gamer thinking the "Art of War" is something that they can possibly understand because they read a poorly translated English version that they bought off of Ebay. Most likely he did so only once and quite possibly bridged through the dull parts, and now thinks he can apply the art of "real war" to a video game. I laugh at you forum warrior.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:30:00 - [51] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:26:41 Originally by: Cipher Jones ITT people who never read the Art of War complain about the tactics described therein. Quoting yet another mmo gamer thinking the "Art of War" is something that they can possibly understand because they read a poorly translated English version that they bought off of Ebay. Most likely he did so only once and quite possibly bridged through the dull parts, and now thinks he can apply the art of "real war" to a video game. I laugh at you forum warrior. You're the one creating a whine thread and saying the game isn't fun, and I'm the one playing the game AFK having fun waiting to PvP with my friends. Understanding indeed good sir. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:33:00 - [52] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:33:36 Ummm... I don't see how that is a retort, but if if makes you feel better more power to ya. *Have fun AFK'ing in a massive multiplayer video game while your stuck waiting to for something fun to happen.* What you just said, is massive part of the issue as well.
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:37:00 - [53] You're the one creating a whine thread and saying the game isn't fun, and I'm the one playing the game AFK having fun waiting to PvP with my friends. Understanding indeed good sir. Thank you for educating us on "The Art of War" it's too bad that it won't help you survive the socially leveraged players. Simply put: your outdated, outmoded and out of options.
Drunx Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:44:00 - [54] A bit of a mess in this topic... BUT there is some true thought which exists in this direction. TL;DR - Rich guys own bums! <--- very shortened! better read it all. PVP Changed a lot. But it changed to the way CCP wants it to be changed. With all the speed nerfing and further balancing, CCP pushed through the concept of cooperation more then ever before. Basically this means that SOLO is not appreciated anymore and deems away day by day. Today, PVP is all about your fleet. How many? Which ships? Which tactics? and so on. Previously PVP was more... spontaneous so to say. Today it is a rare case scenario that upon engaging into a fight, you will get adequate resistance from your enemy. In 90% of the cases it is all about blobing or "wallet challenging". And wallet challenging is the 2-nd factor which CHANGES PVP a lot. Look at the average wealth of today's players. It is waaayyy higher then in 2005. Look at the prices of the ships? They are more or less the same - meaning they didn't change as much as someones wealth changed. This brings us to the fact that today, more players can afford bigger ships, better modules and so on. In 2005, having a slave set, even low-grade, was something "WOW! WTF! OMG!" today - it's much more affordable. There are more and more faction ships used in PVP, which would be also very notable event in 2005. The average "PVP level" - if measured in ship value, modules - whatever - is much higher now. The amount of new players - is not so big to fill in the gap between those in the top and in the bottom. Look at this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9504741 If you now go back in time and show it to yourself in 2005 (if you were playing even at those times)) - you would be blinded.... So this is the good illustration of that the pvp level has advanced a lot because of the fact that the wealth raised too, though the market didn't fully followed that trend. Which made PVP extremely cheap for one group and still tough for the other group. And basically, it is all linked to the time=isks factor. CCP made more possibilities for earning iskies, but they are all still quite much dependent on time you are ready to spend in the game. Sooo....:)) It is not dying, but it is trasforming. Not for good and not for bad, but to some different concept then it was in 2005. Though the fact that there is something wrong with the economy in eve - is true. If it all goes this way - the value of pvp, value of experience and tactics and preparation for the fights and so on, will sank in the factor of wealthiness. And Tranquility will become Singularity.
StuRyan	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:48:00 - [55] Erm i am sure there is a word that summarises this up: Oh yes Evolution!
Drunx Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:53:00 - [56] ... hard to say. it could be also - extinction.
StuRyan	Posted - 2011.05.04 15:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Drunx ... hard to say. it could be also - extinction. SOLO pvp = I am afriad to say i think yes, unless hunting ratters, but doh they took away ma sanctums. Fleet Battles = Hell No
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 16:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Drunx A bit of a mess in this topic... BUT there is some true thought which exists in this direction. TL;DR - Rich guys own bums! <--- very shortened! better read it all. PVP Changed a lot. But it changed to the way CCP wants it to be changed. With all the speed nerfing and further balancing, CCP pushed through the concept of cooperation more then ever before. Basically this means that SOLO is not appreciated anymore and deems away day by day. Today, PVP is all about your fleet. How many? Which ships? Which tactics? and so on. Previously PVP was more... spontaneous so to say. Today it is a rare case scenario that upon engaging into a fight, you will get adequate resistance from your enemy. In 90% of the cases it is all about blobing or "wallet challenging". And wallet challenging is the 2-nd factor which CHANGES PVP a lot. Look at the average wealth of today's players. It is waaayyy higher then in 2005. Look at the prices of the ships? They are more or less the same - meaning they didn't change as much as someones wealth changed. This brings us to the fact that today, more players can afford bigger ships, better modules and so on. In 2005, having a slave set, even low-grade, was something "WOW! WTF! OMG!" today - it's much more affordable. There are more and more faction ships used in PVP, which would be also very notable event in 2005. The average "PVP level" - if measured in ship value, modules - whatever - is much higher now. The amount of new players - is not so big to fill in the gap between those in the top and in the bottom. Look at this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9504741 If you now go back in time and show it to yourself in 2005 (if you were playing even at those times)) - you would be blinded.... So this is the good illustration of that the pvp level has advanced a lot because of the fact that the wealth raised too, though the market didn't fully followed that trend. Which made PVP extremely cheap for one group and still tough for the other group. And basically, it is all linked to the time=isks factor. CCP made more possibilities for earning iskies, but they are all still quite much dependent on time you are ready to spend in the game. Sooo....:)) It is not dying, but it is trasforming. Not for good and not for bad, but to some different concept then it was in 2005. Though the fact that there is something wrong with the economy in eve - is true. If it all goes this way - the value of pvp, value of experience and tactics and preparation for the fights and so on, will sank in the factor of wealthiness. And Tranquility will become Singularity. ^ This is the best worded and most percise anwser to this entire thread. Copy it and paste it to everything Eve related you have.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 16:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 15:33:36 Ummm... I don't see how that is a retort, but if if makes you feel better more power to ya. *Have fun AFK'ing in a massive multiplayer video game while your stuck waiting to for something fun to happen.* What you just said, is massive part of the issue as well. Lol keep crying about how bad it sucks or go somewhere where its better. Vote with your dollar. I have a job and I can make money at EvE while I am at said job. If that's a problem for you then please go play a game that doesn't allow this. EvE has allowed this since the first day there was a blueprint to manufacture and a sell order to be made. The only MMO I have ever played or heard of that you cant do this is guild wars as you cant make items and you have to be at the keyboard to sell. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Narome Bandur	Posted - 2011.05.04 17:19:00 - [60] ^ Too much wind to say "If you don't like it leave". It still doesn't address the OP's concerns it merely says they're not legitimate without providing the reason for why you believe the concerns are illegitimate.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 17:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Narome Bandur ^ Too much wind to say "If you don't like it leave". It still doesn't address the OP's concerns it merely says they're not legitimate without providing the reason for why you believe the concerns are illegitimate. Actually the first post I made addressed it directly. It was a short answer but legit and concise. OP disagreed and changed the subject. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.05.04 17:38:00 - [62] Edited by: NinjaSpud on 04/05/2011 17:39:26 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. ya know what irks me? You might have a point, and maybe even an idea on how to get it fixed... But instead, this is what I understood from your post: "I'm an old eve player, and even though I could contribute something useful, instead I'll just sit in my rocking chair on my front porch and ***** about how good life was back in my prime. Everyone sucks but me" Today's word of the day is narcissism. You old farts make me laugh, gimme another cliche, I wanna poke more fun at you!
Narome Bandur	Posted - 2011.05.04 17:51:00 - [63] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Narome Bandur ^ Too much wind to say "If you don't like it leave". It still doesn't address the OP's concerns it merely says they're not legitimate without providing the reason for why you believe the concerns are illegitimate. Actually the first post I made addressed it directly. It was a short answer but legit and concise. OP disagreed and changed the subject. That the Art of War would suggest people would PvP only in groups? Yeah, that's so, I guess. We're talking about space however, where there's shortfalls in logistics and not everyone is able to accommodate every need at once.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.04 18:02:00 - [64] ITT: People who can't adapt to change.
ImCoolerThanYou	Posted - 2011.05.04 18:05:00 - [65] Incarna will fix it.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.04 18:07:00 - [66] Originally by: Narome Bandur Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Narome Bandur ^ Too much wind to say "If you don't like it leave". It still doesn't address the OP's concerns it merely says they're not legitimate without providing the reason for why you believe the concerns are illegitimate. Actually the first post I made addressed it directly. It was a short answer but legit and concise. OP disagreed and changed the subject. That the Art of War would suggest people would PvP only in groups? Yeah, that's so, I guess. We're talking about space however, where there's shortfalls in logistics and not everyone is able to accommodate every need at once. There was no arena in eve in '05 and there isn't now. So you have to use strategy and tactics. Which is why it applies to EvE more than most other MMO's. Most other MMo's have an "arena" of some sort where PvP is "balanced". The same number of players etc vs. players of similar level etc. Which is the real problem. If CCP made PvP "fair", all the people who have the advantage now would rage so ****ing hard it would make your head spin. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Hermann Fegelein Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.04 19:18:00 - [67] Until I can go into lowsec without being relentlessly chased It's safe to say that there is a lot of life left in PVP. ------------------------------------------------ Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN!
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 19:47:00 - [68] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 19:56:10 Originally by: NinjaSpud Edited by: NinjaSpud on 04/05/2011 17:39:26 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. ya know what irks me? You might have a point, and maybe even an idea on how to get it fixed... But instead, this is what I understood from your post: "I'm an old eve player, and even though I could contribute something useful, instead I'll just sit in my rocking chair on my front porch and ***** about how good life was back in my prime. Everyone sucks but me" Today's word of the day is narcissism. You old farts make me laugh, gimme another cliche, I wanna poke more fun at you! Nothing can be typed here on this forum and be accepted well. It is another thing that has... Wait whats the word? Hmmm... Oh yes, "Evolved" These forums have "evolved into" something so much better then the old EVE forums where people were helpful and excited about the game they were playing. Yes, i am sure of it now, evolution must have been the word that I was looking for!! LMFAO
Camron Champagne Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.04 20:10:00 - [69] Nothing can be typed here on this forum and be accepted well. It is another thing that has... Wait whats the word? Hmmm... Oh yes, "Evolved" These forums have "evolved into" something so much better then the old EVE forums where people were helpful and excited about the game they were playing. Yes, i am sure of it now, evolution must have been the word that I was looking for!! LMFAO Your correct on that. You can't just type something in here and then demand that it be accepted simply because you said it. A long time in Eve does not entitle you to being above disagreement or debate. you have yet to say anything other then you liked PvP in 2005 and then called people names. So no that is rejected as it is typed here.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 20:42:00 - [70] Originally by: Camron Champagne Nothing can be typed here on this forum and be accepted well. It is another thing that has... Wait whats the word? Hmmm... Oh yes, "Evolved" These forums have "evolved into" something so much better then the old EVE forums where people were helpful and excited about the game they were playing. Yes, i am sure of it now, evolution must have been the word that I was looking for!! LMFAO Your correct on that. You can't just type something in here and then demand that it be accepted simply because you said it. A long time in Eve does not entitle you to being above disagreement or debate. you have yet to say anything other then you liked PvP in 2005 and then called people names. So no that is rejected as it is typed here. Now now... The troll fest is "evolution"
Officer Icecream Truck	Posted - 2011.05.04 21:10:00 - [71] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. Oh look, the mighty "CAREBEARS INTO KILLERS," himself has come around once again to bemoan the fact his bc gang got skull-fukt. Cue the tiny violins, the game is over guys.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.04 21:22:00 - [72] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/05/2011 21:23:33 Originally by: Officer Icecream Truck Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. Oh look, the mighty "CAREBEARS INTO KILLERS," himself has come around once again to bemoan the fact his bc gang got skull-fukt. Cue the tiny violins, the game is over guys. Is that slogan really becoming that well known? LOL Or are you just an alt of someone I kicked from channel because you couldn't adhere to coms discipline if your life depended on it? And last I checked Drake armies are not so bad in the grand scheme of things. I have come to bemoan the "WOWifying" of the game we once loved because it was not WOW.
Klown Walk Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.05.05 00:05:00 - [73] I see small roaming gangs or solo pilots every day in 0.0, it¦s nowhere near dead.
P0le Dancer	Posted - 2011.05.05 00:14:00 - [74] Posting in a "You don't understand me.. You don't understand my work!" thread
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.05 00:47:00 - [75] Edited by: Mighty Dread on 05/05/2011 00:48:50 The way I see it is: With no real goals aside from obtaining stuff and earning isk to obtain more stuff, players get attached to their stuff and are reluctant to loose their stuff. Players would risk their stuff to obtain more stuff but only if the odds are steeply in their favor i.e. blob warfare, shooting noobs and other one sided combat. A few are willing to gamble even more simply because they want to PVP but eventually the need for maintaining and obtaining stuff becomes the overriding factor. The best one can hope for is to become so wealthy ingame that you can always obtain stuff no matter how fast they loose it and then engage in PVP with others of a similar disposition. Problems is, players are immortal and if two sides can perpetually replenishment themselves then there is no true wins or losses. That gets boring after awhile. Now, if the game gave meaning to combat (and peace for that matter), had goals that had nothing to do with "stuff," then players would be more willing to risk their stuff. Some might say that that is what Faction Warfare is about, but really at the end of the day, wins and losses in FW mean nothing in the grand scheme of things and so players go back to wanting to risk very little stuff to obtain more stuff mentality. The game has no positive goals, no ebb and flow, it's all pretty much a vicious circle of loosing and obtaining stuff. What I hope is that CCP takes a look outside of the box one day and says "Hey, maybe we can give players purpose beyond obtaining more and more virtual "stuff."
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 02:42:00 - [76] Mighty Dread, you said it better then I ever could have. Amen brother That hope is why I keep my account active. If not for that, I would have ditched eve long ago.
Triksterism Spacecataz.	Posted - 2011.05.05 04:22:00 - [77] Edited by: Triksterism on 05/05/2011 04:25:09 That meaning you're looking for is the rush. The rush of losing ships, of losing things you threw a lot of ISK into. Solo PvP is such a rush it's the reason I haven't quit eve since playing in 2005. People who do nothing but "hold their stuff" and blob really don't understand. If you want to do nothing but 'collect goods' and swim in them like Scrooge **ing McDuck, then go to highsec and * around there. Where is the rush in blobbing 10:1? There is none. I won't agree with PvP dying but I will agree it has gone down hill more than most of you would understand. So many carebears who think they are "super pvp #1" because they x up for blobs need to actually go spend a few months on their own or with 2-3 friends PvPing in lowsec/nullsec. And by 2-3 friends I don't mean 2-3 alts nor do I mean 2-3 characters in falcons / dual logi. Stick it out there. Be a **ing man. Comb your chest hair or breast hair (derp derp ladies. Srsly, some good PvP gals out there though). I'll stop there as I could rant about this for ages and this topic can possibly make me eMad. tl;dr --> EvE is undoubtedly geared towards fleets but outside of 0.0, used to be amazing for those seeking true excitement in this entertaining game. It's only going to get worse. Adapt or die indeed, but that doesn't change the fact that people are magical osauruses, cowards and carebears with guns + friends with a false sense of "LOL we supa pvpers" ----------WTB SIGNATURE----------*
Frater Scrapheap	Posted - 2011.05.05 04:26:00 - [78] Edited by: Frater Scrapheap on 05/05/2011 04:26:31 There is no PvP... only PvV (Player vs. Victims).
Skydell Caldari Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.05.05 04:49:00 - [79] Originally by: Mighty Dread Edited by: Mighty Dread on 05/05/2011 03:35:37 The way I see it is: With no real goals aside from obtaining stuff and earning isk to obtain more stuff, players get attached to their stuff and are reluctant to loose their stuff. Players would risk their stuff to obtain more stuff but only if the odds are steeply in their favor, i.e. blob warfare, shooting noobs and other one sided combat. A few are willing to gamble more simply because they want to PVP, but eventually the need for maintaining and obtaining stuff becomes the overriding factor. The best one can hope for is to become so wealthy ingame that you can always obtain stuff no matter how fast you loose it and then engage in PVP with others of a similar disposition. Problems is, players are immortal and if two sides can perpetually replenishment themselves then there is no true wins or losses. That gets boring after awhile. Now, if the game gave meaning to combat (and peace for that matter), had goals that had nothing to do with "stuff," then players would be more willing to risk their stuff. Some might say that that is what Faction Warfare is about, but really at the end of the day, wins and losses in FW mean nothing in the grand scheme of things and so players go back to wanting to risk very little stuff to obtain more stuff mentality. The game has no positive goals, no ebb and flow, it's all pretty much a vicious circle of loosing and obtaining stuff. What I hope is that CCP takes a look outside of the box one day and says "Hey, maybe we can give players purpose beyond obtaining more and more virtual "stuff." Agree 100% EVE is a pointless smash and grab. Combine that with the total lack of honor and total lack of reward for honor the game becomes a crab bucket spiral. The perfect tool to box in an enemy, your station. Let them dock and charge them through the nose, camp them in. No, not in "PvP" EVE. Refuse docking rights. Ever tried to undock at Jita IV 4 while war dec'ed (Its the only place you need to worry about war Dec's really) Imagine having a red fleet docked up in your station. A red fleet that paid you a small fortune to dock there. It would be an epic turkey shoot. They will know who is docked and who isnt. So? You can still eject. Do it one at a time. Farm em but no, not in EVE. The "PvP" game. Block anyone but blues. Because people don't want reds in thier space. They don't want the PvP. They get it anyway but the instinct to avoid it is still there.
NeoShocker Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.05.05 06:54:00 - [80] Pvp dying? I don't think so. ----------------------------------- Peace through power!
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.05.05 07:02:00 - [81] PvP should remember to update its clone. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space
Lea Sahara	Posted - 2011.05.05 08:28:00 - [82] Originally by: NeoShocker Pvp dying? I don't think so. Did you fraps that by chance?
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 08:32:00 - [83] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. Pears > Apples If you don't agree with me you're a noob -
Jose Black Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2011.05.05 08:46:00 - [84] Originally by: Skydell Combine that with the total lack of honor and total lack of reward for honor the game becomes a crab bucket spiral I beg to differ. It may be a lack of honor, but it's no total lack for sure. Eve is a sandbox. It doesn't matter if it evolves itself. Your goals are what should evolve. What is the purpose of life? You just live it and try to have fun in the process and/or reach some goals which are - hopefully - your own ones. Same with Eve. The fight is not about blowing ships up but to make an impact that makes you sort of immortal - or fail trying.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 11:44:00 - [85] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 11:46:50 Originally by: NeoShocker Pvp dying? I don't think so. That looks a like a gate camp where you engage one small gang (who had no logistical support), and then shortly their after (or before) multiple, stupid, completely unrelated targets crossed the HED gate one at a time. It only looks like one killmail because of the way that aggression mechanics generate killmails, and yes it is a nice haul for the night. However, we will also not see any "fraps" of this epic l33t sauce PVP battle because it is not any different then the Privateers camping jita 4-4. It is nice when lone targets cross into a bubble for you and your 6,000 KM/sec instalockers can tag them one by one isn't it? That's right. I said it. It may impress noobs like Lea Sahara with a shadow for a picture but you can't pass off crap like that to the rest of us who have been around the block a few times. So meh...
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:11:00 - [86] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 12:16:00 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. Pears > Apples If you don't agree with me you're a noob And I counter your quote with a requote of my own Originally by: Constantinus Maximus I got a subscription to E-ON last year. Was just pure comedy. Battle Reports: Month after month of "so-and-so was winning, node crashed, other side holds the field" Dev Interviews: "Nah I mainly play WoW, getting the job here was the first I heard of Eve" Was funny seeing it on glossy pages. The current state of EVE in a nutshell. Edit: Do you know why the PVP tournaments have rules THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE NORMAL GAMEPLAY? It is because it would be ****ing boring. Think about it? Why do they have to change the rules of the game to make it a worth while tournament of Fleets where you can bring any combination of ships that you want to bring? Homer says food for thought
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:32:00 - [87] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 12:21:58 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. Pears > Apples If you don't agree with me you're a noob And I counter your quote with a requote of my own Originally by: Constantinus Maximus I got a subscription to E-ON last year. Was just pure comedy. Battle Reports: Month after month of "so-and-so was winning, node crashed, other side holds the field" Dev Interviews: "Nah I mainly play WoW, getting the job here was the first I heard of Eve" Was funny seeing it on glossy pages. The current state of EVE in a nutshell. Edit: Do you know why the PVP tournaments have rules THAT ARE So DIFFERENT FROM THE NORMAL GAMEPLAY? It is because it would be ****ing nonfunctional and boring if they didn't. Think about it? Why do they have to change the rules of the game to make it a worth while tournament of Fleets where you can bring any combination of ships that you want to bring? Homer says food for thought You're trying to hard. -
Tarasina	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:33:00 - [88] Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:34:59 Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:34:17 Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:33:45 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Do you know why the PVP tournaments have rules THAT ARE So DIFFERENT FROM THE NORMAL GAMEPLAY? It is because it would be ****ing nonfunctional and boring if they didn't. Think about it? Why do they have to change the rules of the game to make it a worth while tournament of Fleets where you can bring any combination of ships that you want to bring? Homer says food for thought And it is BS and smaller ships only. If you risk losing something noteworthy, you will bring everything you can and everything you can has become supercaps and titans. When I started Eve I had a small notion of me ending up in nullsec, being in fleetbattles. But when it is 700 vs 700 alpha fleets, I matter as much as a grain of sand in a desert. Doesn't matter if I am there or not, so I chose to not be there. Edit: spelling
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:36:00 - [89] Originally by: Tarasina Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:34:59 Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:34:17 Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:33:45 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Do you know why the PVP tournaments have rules THAT ARE So DIFFERENT FROM THE NORMAL GAMEPLAY? It is because it would be ****ing nonfunctional and boring if they didn't. Think about it? Why do they have to change the rules of the game to make it a worth while tournament of Fleets where you can bring any combination of ships that you want to bring? Homer says food for thought And it is BS and smaller ships only. If you risk losing something noteworthy, you will bring everything you can and everything you can has become supercaps and titans. When I started Eve I had a small notion of me ending up in nullsec, being in fleetbattles. But when it is 700 vs 700 alpha fleets, I matter as much as a grain of sand in a desert. Doesn't matter if I am there or not, so I chose to not be there. Edit: spelling You're also trying too hard. His alt? -
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:40:00 - [90] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 12:40:03 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Tarasina Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:34:59 Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:34:17 Edited by: Tarasina on 05/05/2011 12:33:45 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Do you know why the PVP tournaments have rules THAT ARE So DIFFERENT FROM THE NORMAL GAMEPLAY? It is because it would be ****ing nonfunctional and boring if they didn't. Think about it? Why do they have to change the rules of the game to make it a worth while tournament of Fleets where you can bring any combination of ships that you want to bring? Homer says food for thought And it is BS and smaller ships only. If you risk losing something noteworthy, you will bring everything you can and everything you can has become supercaps and titans. When I started Eve I had a small notion of me ending up in nullsec, being in fleetbattles. But when it is 700 vs 700 alpha fleets, I matter as much as a grain of sand in a desert. Doesn't matter if I am there or not, so I chose to not be there. Edit: spelling You're also trying too hard. His alt? You are also trying to hard Misanth. Got anything better to say?
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian You are also trying to hard Misanth. Got anything better to say? Sure. You got anything but stupid trolling to post? I'd love to discuss 2005-PvP with you, but no real point talking with someone who's just in to argue, compares apples with pears, and is not even trying to cover it like any semi-decent troll would. Oh ****, I guess I just fell for it. Either that or I'm just bored.. -
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:50:00 - [92] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Eternum Praetorian You are also trying to hard Misanth. Got anything better to say? Sure. You got anything but stupid trolling to post? I'd love to discuss 2005-PvP with you, but no real point talking with someone who's just in to argue, compares apples with pears, and is not even trying to cover it like any semi-decent troll would. Oh ****, I guess I just fell for it. Either that or I'm just bored.. Just your simple Simon opinion, as you clearly are not addressing anything that i have expressed. Go back and read it again.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:11:00 - [93] This may sound stupid to some but something I would like to see as a reward for getting a kill in PVP is a boost to your training speed for a time for each kill you get. Say 1% per kill for 3 days or so. And no loss of training time if you die because you are more likely to die than kill and no one would PVP at all if they knew getting killed meant slower training time... Sound reasonable or stupid?
NeoShocker Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:31:00 - [94] Edited by: NeoShocker on 05/05/2011 14:35:20 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 12:00:29 Originally by: NeoShocker Pvp dying? I don't think so. That looks a like a gate camp where you engage one small gang (who had no logistical support, where as you most defiantly had at least one Scimitar) and then shortly there after (or before) multiple, stupid, completely unrelated targets crossed the HED gate one at a time. It only looks like one killmail because of the way that aggression mechanics generate killmails, and yes it is a nice haul for the night. However, we will also not see any "fraps" of this epic l33t sauce PVP battle because it is not any different then the Privateers camping jita 4-4. It is nice when lone targets cross into a bubble for you so your 6,000 KM/sec instalockers can tag them one by one yea? That's right. I said it. That might as well be a Privateer killmail at a market hub undock, so meh... It may impress noobs like Lea Sahara with a shadow for a picture but you can't pass off crap like that to the rest of us who have been around the block a few times. Lol, well, sadly, no, no fraps, I'll have to ask Packe or Tyrrant (tho it is very unlikely) because it was really only just us three, no logistics. But we did get a drake help toward the near end before logging off for the night. I just had a good night. After going out for some nom nom and watching sports like SF Giants winning the game, then Sharks win the playoff match in NHL, one more game to advance. Got back home and said "sup" in mumble and them two needed some help (they were actually doing fine too, one more dramiel won't hurt). So I log in and went straight to HED-GP while Tyrrant being a noob and dying while enroute. I arrived, multiple of targets on gate, several outside gate range, Hurricane off the distance. There were even combat situation that 2 hurricanes off gate and we tackled them, plus the drake, and we got them. Then cynabal warps in to help after posting in local "Help, drake tackled, warp to keberz gate" (no lie, I was surprised) and two more ships to help off the gate distance. Really, there were like 7+ more guys on the gate, watching their friends and allies dying to us. No lie, trolling. We even engaged on the gate to "encourage" them to fire on us. Then Tyrrant, being like a noob he was, he stopped moving after killing said cynaball (I think, can't remember) and got INSTAPOPPED by sniping maelstrom (yes, on the gate the whole time I believe) and came back with another dramiel (and a friendly drake reinforcement). Really, just play and fly smart. Sure, I did simple orbit click, but did quite a bit of manual controlling to stay away from the gate while tackling something. ----------------------------------- Peace through power!
Tarasina	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:54:00 - [95] Originally by: Misanth You're also trying too hard. His alt? Not his alt, just my opinion. You can turn a blind eye to the issue but it wont go away. Think about it. How interesting would the Alliance Tournament be with supercaps on the field?
Renarla	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:00:00 - [96] Originally by: BrundleMeth This may sound stupid to some but something I would like to see as a reward for getting a kill in PVP is a boost to your training speed for a time for each kill you get. Say 1% per kill for 3 days or so. And no loss of training time if you die because you are more likely to die than kill and no one would PVP at all if they knew getting killed meant slower training time... Sound reasonable or stupid? Create alt farm alt ??? profit
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Tarasina Originally by: Misanth You're also trying too hard. His alt? Not his alt, just my opinion. You can turn a blind eye to the issue but it wont go away. Think about it. How interesting would the Alliance Tournament be with supercaps on the field? Think about it. How would the Alliance Tournament be without borders, with no rules on what modules you can fit, no gang size limits, and we could discuss the viability of the fittings used there as well since it almost always lacks proper tackle. ..I thought my pear > apple would be obvious enough, but I guess it might help to spell it out. Comparing apples and oranges FTL. -
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.05.05 16:11:00 - [98] The problem is the forums. They are only good for talking about what doesn't work. If you come here and talk about what does work, it won't the next time you log in.
Mooney92 Minmatar Satanic Soldiers Adeptus Arbites	Posted - 2011.05.05 16:13:00 - [99] I used to pvp before it went mainstream. Hipsters gonna hip. Herp derp. Go to ---> http://www.hellokittyonline.com/ "Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is 1 well armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:00:00 - [100] It's been a long time since 2005, but after taking my Alzheimer's medication I seem to remember gate camps existed back then. So I don't actually understand how you can claim, Eternum, that gate camping doesn't count as PvP when shooting down examples of PvP still being alive and well in EVE. Fully non-troll here, what do you think the answer is? The problem is not entirely the mechanics of the game. Jump bridges hurt because they allow fleets/targets to flee easily (though I am assuming you don't count the latter as PvP as I am almost thinking you only consider consensual meet-me-at-high-noon shootouts PvP). If anything harms PvP its player/corp/alliance attitudes. Blueing up everything within six regions; titan bridging 30 ships on top of a single battle cruiser will certainly cause a small gang to refuse to engage your gang; risk aversion - by which I mean bringing a logi and a Falcon for every DPS ship. What idiot gang is going to bother playing with that unless they can out blob? All that said, there is plenty of PvP (though maybe not always YOUR definition of PvP) in the game. I've gotten more PvP kills in the last two years than I have since I started in March of 2004. You can't just sit and spin in your station though waiting for someone to come into local and slap you with a glove demanding fisticuffs though. ___ *Chaotic Dreams*
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:16:00 - [101] Eternum Praetorian makes a whine thread. The Tiny Island of People Who Care was unfortunately unavailable for comment. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
TravisWB	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:20:00 - [102] mmmm, bitter vet tears.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:25:00 - [103] Originally by: Usagi Tsukino It's been a long time since 2005, but after taking my Alzheimer's medication I seem to remember gate camps existed back then. So I don't actually understand how you can claim, Eternum, that gate camping doesn't count as PvP when shooting down examples of PvP still being alive and well in EVE. Fully non-troll here, what do you think the answer is? The problem is not entirely the mechanics of the game. Jump bridges hurt because they allow fleets/targets to flee easily (though I am assuming you don't count the latter as PvP as I am almost thinking you only consider consensual meet-me-at-high-noon shootouts PvP). If anything harms PvP its player/corp/alliance attitudes. Blueing up everything within six regions; titan bridging 30 ships on top of a single battle cruiser will certainly cause a small gang to refuse to engage your gang; risk aversion - by which I mean bringing a logi and a Falcon for every DPS ship. What idiot gang is going to bother playing with that unless they can out blob? All that said, there is plenty of PvP (though maybe not always YOUR definition of PvP) in the game. I've gotten more PvP kills in the last two years than I have since I started in March of 2004. You can't just sit and spin in your station though waiting for someone to come into local and slap you with a glove demanding fisticuffs though. Not to mention that in 2005 we had the totally broken nos mechanics, dampeners making all other e-war obsolete, warpcore stabs had not been nerfed so was commonly fitted, t2 modules were insanely expensive (if you could even get hold of them) etc.. But apart from that I agree with you that players mentality today has shifted, alot. Back then industrial corps would fight back if aggressed. Today they blob and/or run and/or hide in alliances/highsec/whatever. NC and other entities have the whole mentality of "holding space is more important than fighting, so we'll blob to ****, break server and never really fight because then we can keep whoring isk like there's no tomorrow". Plus what you said about jumpbridges. But, since OP is just stating "2005 PvP owned" (very grave generalisation) and stating that everyone that disagress is a noob, he's either a troll, or pretty damn dumb and/or ignorant. So words like these are pretty much wasted on him. -
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 21:59:00 - [104] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 21:59:18 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Tarasina Originally by: Misanth You're also trying too hard. His alt? Not his alt, just my opinion. You can turn a blind eye to the issue but it wont go away. Think about it. How interesting would the Alliance Tournament be with supercaps on the field? Think about it. How would the Alliance Tournament be without borders, with no rules on what modules you can fit, no gang size limits, and we could discuss the viability of the fittings used there as well since it almost always lacks proper tackle. ..I thought my pear > apple would be obvious enough, but I guess it might help to spell it out. Comparing apples and oranges FTL. People like you really need to be fed in a highchair with a very tiny spoon don't they?
Drunx Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.06 23:18:00 - [105] BTW:) I bet 90% of the people here in this thread do not really read the thread but just burst out some emos related to the topic:) So it's hardly a discussion any more:) So basically - save yourself some time. Here is the TL;DR of this entire thread and of other posts to come: *("Let me tell you how it is...") [number of eve subscribers]**
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2011.05.07 00:04:00 - [106] Edited by: Aaron on 07/05/2011 00:07:12 Hey Eternum, longtime. Nice thread. PVP is a battle of the minds, whos mind is sharpest? who has prepared the most logical fleet? who can counter the most logical fleet? I honestly can't say pvp is dead (small gang pvp 25 vs 25 and lower) if you can enter into these kinds of fights then you will have epic fun. Real PvP has become rare and I will embrace it when it happens, regardless of the outcome i will say gf to my opponents. I took part in a battle where the opponents had 12 slepnirs and 3 schimitars, we got owned properly that day, all the sleipnirs even had a large shield transporter in their utility slot just incase their schimitars failed. This is the kind of fleet I would like to fight against because it would be a challenge to find the flaws in their fleet and beat them. So you see PvP is still alive, I guess it just depends on how you play the game and what kind of pvp situations you want to get involved with. I mean come on its easy saying PvP is dead when you're permenently in hi-sec. edit: my poor spelling.
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2011.05.07 00:21:00 - [107] A fleet commander, a real fleet commander that is...knows that fleet command isnt just about calling primaries and secondaries. Its about working with your team, advising on skills training, shipfits.. A real fleet commander will know precisley what the enemies tactics will be just by seeing their fleet composition. I can tell you this; one day im gonna start a pvp fight club and were gonna execute it like gentlemen and follow a code of conduct. You think you got the best fleet?? come and prove it!! there will be gambling, drugs, and alcohol involved. PvP is far from dead, I'm with the other dude who said it's just getting started.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.05.07 00:33:00 - [108] There's nothing wrong with the cheetah-vs-gazelle game that is solo/tiny fleet pvp, either. The gazelle hangs out doing pve in a pvp fit until someone jumps her, then battle is engaged. There's not a lot of e-honor noobery with people charging headlong at each other, but that's less pvp dying and more the player base removing the pants from their head and backing off the ******edness a bit. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
ATARI BABY Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.05.07 19:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. i pointed same thing here but its locked.
Jenny Cameron Caldari Isha's Tears	Posted - 2011.05.07 20:07:00 - [110] Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 07/05/2011 20:09:51 There's PvP in MY EVE?? Originally by: Herrring Originally by: Falgoria pvp? Player versus POS Ah ........ right!!! ________________* - If you're in favour of a bloodline change please vote in the Assembly Hall in this thread -
Lord EmBra Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.07 20:27:00 - [111] Originally by: Drunx A bit of a mess in this topic... BUT there is some true thought which exists in this direction. TL;DR - Rich guys own bums! <--- very shortened! better read it all. PVP Changed a lot. But it changed to the way CCP wants it to be changed. With all the speed nerfing and further balancing, CCP pushed through the concept of cooperation more then ever before. Basically this means that SOLO is not appreciated anymore and deems away day by day. Today, PVP is all about your fleet. How many? Which ships? Which tactics? and so on. Previously PVP was more... spontaneous so to say. Today it is a rare case scenario that upon engaging into a fight, you will get adequate resistance from your enemy. In 90% of the cases it is all about blobing or "wallet challenging". And wallet challenging is the 2-nd factor which CHANGES PVP a lot. Look at the average wealth of today's players. It is waaayyy higher then in 2005. Look at the prices of the ships? They are more or less the same - meaning they didn't change as much as someones wealth changed. This brings us to the fact that today, more players can afford bigger ships, better modules and so on. In 2005, having a slave set, even low-grade, was something "WOW! WTF! OMG!" today - it's much more affordable. There are more and more faction ships used in PVP, which would be also very notable event in 2005. The average "PVP level" - if measured in ship value, modules - whatever - is much higher now. The amount of new players - is not so big to fill in the gap between those in the top and in the bottom. Look at this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9504741 If you now go back in time and show it to yourself in 2005 (if you were playing even at those times)) - you would be blinded.... So this is the good illustration of that the pvp level has advanced a lot because of the fact that the wealth raised too, though the market didn't fully followed that trend. Which made PVP extremely cheap for one group and still tough for the other group. And basically, it is all linked to the time=isks factor. CCP made more possibilities for earning iskies, but they are all still quite much dependent on time you are ready to spend in the game. Sooo....:)) It is not dying, but it is trasforming. Not for good and not for bad, but to some different concept then it was in 2005. Though the fact that there is something wrong with the economy in eve - is true. If it all goes this way - the value of pvp, value of experience and tactics and preparation for the fights and so on, will sank in the factor of wealthiness. And Tranquility will become Singularity. So true, this game need more ISK sinks.
Psycarne Minmatar Guerrilla Tactics	Posted - 2011.05.07 21:34:00 - [112] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. It was bloody ace. ------------- Ar? Limp?
Officer Icecream Truck	Posted - 2011.05.07 22:07:00 - [113] Had a hankering for ~elitepvp~ tears and this thread delivered once again.
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.07 22:35:00 - [114] I think the whole concept of Concord needs to be overhauled and updated. Sure Concord has worked to keep the game from descending into chaos while the Devs work out the various gameplay dynamics of EVE, but I think now's the time for the game to evolve and stop using dynamite as a can opener. Just as pirates/gankers expect to be spanked by Concord to various degrees for their outlaw behavior players need to feel like they can proactively protect themselves and sections of empire space against said pirates/gankers without being slapped by Concord themselves. I don't know exactly how CCP is going to implement the whole drug smuggling thing that was mentioned earlier this year, hopefully though it means a fix to other similar areas of the game like how Concord treats low sec and Bounty Hunting. Too as I said before CCP needs to start giving meaning to PVP, give people a reason to sacrifice their ships, for a greater cause or whatever. More storyline, a more dynamic EVE universe and something constructive to build and protect aside from military installations.
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2011.05.09 17:59:00 - [115] Edited by: Aaron on 09/05/2011 18:01:22 I've had a few more thoughts since my last post..Have a look at this scenario. Lets say you take your corp to sov 0.0 and build POS's defences etc, a few weeks later you are attacked by a 20 strong carrier fleet and all your installations are destroyed and you lose sov. Now the lessons you must learn from this are that you wernt organised or powerful enough to defend your space. It's silly of you to say something like "Its not fair, 20 carriers jumped our 1 carrier" You have the option of recruiting lots of people then gaining the finance or resources to buy 20 carriers and engage the large force that attacked you. I feel us players need to just man up and accept CCP have designed the game how they want it. It is your job to find ways of getting ahead and being able to have good pvp. CCP has changed the game in a way which forces people to work as a team to accomplish goals, some people are very good at teamwork and understand fully what being a soldier or commander is about. The real problem here is that lots of us completly fail at teamwork,the way CCP has designed the game is not the problem. edit: gramatical
Jason Triumph	Posted - 2011.05.09 20:10:00 - [116] CCP forced the game to be to small. Jump Bridges are the main culprit without them the amount of space an alliance could hold would be significantly reduced and that would hopefully spur more people to venture out to low/null with less chance of being a part of blob warfare.

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