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C0mbat W0mbat
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:12:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Wrong, they are not gimped at all in terms of missionrunning.
gimped in so far, that you can't fit the 4th BCU on your tengu, but use that slot for backup eccm. Unless you have a loki sig reducing booster or run with those +2 sig reducing implants
But I agree, thats hardly gimped.
I'd say, don't mess with the unscannable PVE boats, but address the unscannable fleet boosting stuff.
Mission boats can be caught at undock, gates, dock. That's enough angels to work on if you really wanna kill them. and for 800M and quite some skill investment, the attacker should have to work a bit more than for catching a drake.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:01:00 -
[92]
Originally by: IskPlease
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
The way missions are designed at the moment it's really like a turkey shoot. The missioner has 0 chance of survival with the current npc AI if he gets probed out. A good prober will do that in 5 seconds. Add npc tackle to that and it's easy mode for the ganker.
There is 0% chance of you getting probed from the time the ship hits local to 5 seconds. Literally.
Probing literally starts when the probes are out, not when the scout hits local.
That has nothing to do with anything except semantics. If its "easy mode" for a ganker its because you are flying in "fail mode".
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Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:13:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Ghurthe
The long and short of it is, right now, gimping your fit to be unscannable is the only way to VERY safely do missions in lowsec.
Yes, that's what's broken. You are correct. Not supposed to be able to run missions VERY SAFELY in low sec.
Oh I completely agree. I think there should at least be a way of resisting scan probes. Making it very difficult to scan down your ships or something like that. It shouldn't be perfect immunity but a heavy resistance makes sense. However if they do this they really ought to make DED Complexes start dropping loot more often again, since it will be significantly harder to run escalations if they change this.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:56:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
If its "easy mode" for a ganker its because you are flying in "fail mode".
Wrong.
Pve ship is always in disadvantage compared to pvp ship. Even properly fit pvp ship under npc agro is in serious disadvantage compared to same ship without npc agro /in most missions/.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.13 15:06:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Ghurthe on 13/05/2011 15:06:28
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Cipher Jones
If its "easy mode" for a ganker its because you are flying in "fail mode".
Wrong.
Pve ship is always in disadvantage compared to pvp ship. Even properly fit pvp ship under npc agro is in serious disadvantage compared to same ship without npc agro /in most missions/.
Even WITHOUT Rats shooting at you, the fact of the matter is most pve ships don't fit points. Any attacker can simple disengage if they feel they're losing the fight. That ALONE is what makes it so unbalanced for pve vs pvp ships.
All the utility slots don't make up for the fact that you usually don't have the med slot to spare if you're alone in a mission.
Now if you're running with a small gang that's another story entirely.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.05.13 16:38:00 -
[96]
Great, why CCP? making missions scannable would be better. The legion is no 100% useless - cant do WH stuff because of neuts, can't mission run and now can't give ganglinks and same with the loki. Loki keeps its PVP ability where it is just about viable
Guess thats 1 less plex a month as I wont need my legion/loki booster char anymore. |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.13 16:43:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Telvani
Great, why CCP? making missions scannable would be better. The legion is no 100% useless - cant do WH stuff because of neuts, can't mission run and now can't give ganglinks and same with the loki. Loki keeps its PVP ability where it is just about viable
Guess thats 1 less plex a month as I wont need my legion/loki booster char anymore.
So with a bunch of pve carebear whiners we have here one pvp carebear too. Not bad, but links still should work only on grid and transfer agression to boosting ship.
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:27:00 -
[98]
Posting a confirmation that the drake should finally, at long last, be nerfed
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:15:00 -
[99]
Gosh, how the hell am I going to be able to leave highsec without my unprobable tengu alts?!
SEE YOU GUYS IN MOTSU, AMIRITE?!
(/sarcasm)
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:55:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Cipher Jones
If its "easy mode" for a ganker its because you are flying in "fail mode".
Wrong.
Pve ship is always in disadvantage compared to pvp ship. Even properly fit pvp ship under npc agro is in serious disadvantage compared to same ship without npc agro /in most missions/.
That's irrelevant to what I'm posting about however. It doesn't matter how much of a disadvantage your ship is at in a PvP fight, avoiding the PvP to begin with is the issue at hand.
.
Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:58:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Edited by: Ghurthe on 13/05/2011 15:06:28
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Cipher Jones
If its "easy mode" for a ganker its because you are flying in "fail mode".
Wrong.
Pve ship is always in disadvantage compared to pvp ship. Even properly fit pvp ship under npc agro is in serious disadvantage compared to same ship without npc agro /in most missions/.
Even WITHOUT Rats shooting at you, the fact of the matter is most pve ships don't fit points. Any attacker can simple disengage if they feel they're losing the fight. That ALONE is what makes it so unbalanced for pve vs pvp ships.
All the utility slots don't make up for the fact that you usually don't have the med slot to spare if you're alone in a mission.
Now if you're running with a small gang that's another story entirely.
Lol more failure to read.
Getting ganked or not is the subject at hand, not the ability to defend if you decide to stay and fight.
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Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.13 20:03:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
For t3 unprobeable booster...removing that I think would be a unneeded nerf to small gang pvp.
Why? I don't understand this viewpoint at all. Fleet boosters should be targets that can be eliminated. Having the option to keep one safed up and unprobable is rediculous while the command ship niche almost completely dissapears because of it. T3's (the awful legion being an exception) have more than enough use outside of this role and small gang pvp was much better off before.
It's easy to understand why:
Small Gang pvp is almost always faced with a larger pvp gang.
Larger pvp gang usually is lazy-camping a gate or doing crap roams as most of the times it assembles so many people that everybody runs from them.
Should only on-grid boosting is allowed, or all boosters are probable etc, the large gang will have easier time bringing and protecting their booster along, or if off-grid boosting is maintained and T3s only lose their immunity to probes, the guys holding space will easily have an advantage by having POSs and stations to rest their booster by safely.
The command ship niche is different, as you usually boost a massive tank - unlike the paper-thin unprobable T3s with more than 1-2x links - and its better suited for roams, because you don't need to jump ahead and position yourself before the fight starts (the case with T3s).
Again the whole deal will give more advantages to people possessing POSes, blob numbers and deep safes, which is unfair in many aspects.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:48:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
...
In that case pve ship is always in big disadvantage once its probed. So... you are one of these pvp carebears who thinks hitting analyze 3 times is only thing you should do for getting kill?
Originally by: Diomidis
...
Boosting alt owner who is afraid he will lose his awesome pvp skills detected. Drake wouldnt feel so good without that skirmish boosts i guess.
T3 boosting from safespot is just something that cannot be touched and gives you MASSIVE boost to efficiency without needing ANY attention. Its actually more gay than ecm, because dual boxing combat ship and falcon needs at least some skills, while boosting from ss needs none. You can shoot falcon back, even if it would be only drones and fofs, butyou wont reach boosting t3. Ever. You might as well end "1v1ed" with t3 support and you wouldnt know it, killmail wont say anything - if it was falcon, killmail would show your gayness to everyone.
So just hop in drakes, fit some webs /reaching to 17k/, some points /40k/ properly set keep at range, choose some targets that cannot reach you, and you can start your fight "against all odds." God forbid you would have to bring claymore on grid, that would seriously hit 1337 pvp and wouldnt open new tactical possibilities.
Or if you really want to have fun, get bunch of boosting t3s /at least 2, 1 for skirmish, 1 for tank bonuses/, take shiny ship and go for heroic "solo pvp." Dont forget to fraps it so other pvpers can go wet over it. All you need to do is to cover your fleet window with "message board" that describes what you do : "now im fighting against all odds vs 9000 reds, but luckily my ship has complete control of range."
The whole deal of reworking gang bonuses would make fleet boosting actual role unlike being alt slot in fleet, the whole deal would make command ships useful again, the whole deal would eliminate annoying untouchable t3s and untouchable neutral boosters too.
Im sure it would be big hit to pvp skills of some "pr0 pvpers" and big hit to "solo" pvp for some ppl.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:59:00 -
[104]
Well, I'm still going to be glad to see unprobeable T3s in all their variations go the way of the dodo - even though I can fly all the T3s and have all the combat mindlinks. Of course, I also foresaw this day coming and trained Command Ships 5.
And all that said, I still think gang bonuses from off grid is acceptable. I guess Lug is gonna have some creative insults to throw my way too.
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Holdout
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:07:00 -
[105]
BECAUSE OF FALCON
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Well, I'm still going to be glad to see unprobeable T3s in all their variations go the way of the dodo - even though I can fly all the T3s and have all the combat mindlinks. Of course, I also foresaw this day coming and trained Command Ships 5.
And all that said, I still think gang bonuses from off grid is acceptable. I guess Lug is gonna have some creative insults to throw my way too.
Agreed with the first bit, though i'm not going to concur with off grid boosting in spirit. I see the bloke who's giving massive fleet benefits as someone who needs to be nearby. Though without unscannable t3's doing the job it would be fine since they can be hunted and killed anyhow. (/rp)
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.13 23:22:00 -
[107]
Just removing unprobability wont change anything but afk boosting for ganglink t3s.
Im sure people who are used to bring their booster t3 for every fight are ok with that change. Because in reality it means nothing... God forbid that "1337 pvpers" had to actually bring claymore on grid with them and dualbox it, and god forbid it would be actually agressed by providing bonuses to ship with aggression.
That would seriously ruin "solo pvp" in eve.
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Though without unscannable t3's doing the job it would be fine since they can be hunted and killed anyhow.
If hes on pos, go siege the pos. If its hisec and its neutral booster, go suicide him. In lowsec you can go gcc and force him to dock/jump, i hope you always bring designated guys to do that with your fleet.
Or you will be able to probe him, prepare designated prober who will be ready when he uncloaks right before start of fight. Not that you will be able to get him, but you will force him to warp out and turn off links for a while. Ofc if it was small skirmish it will be most likely long over before you get him.
Enjoy ganglink mechanics.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.13 23:25:00 -
[108]
The bitter is strong with this one. 
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.14 00:05:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Tel''me Am Peur on 14/05/2011 00:06:28
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Enjoy ganglink mechanics.
As I said, I don't agree with it in true rp spirit, but tbqh having a POS-bound booster (requisite on having a POS in system) is far less silly than the unscannable t3 that has-boost will-travel and requires absolutely no planning to deploy with safety.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
The bitter is strong with this one.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.14 05:28:00 -
[110]
Kinda surprised that the huge reaction with a wishy washy CCP saying "i wish" , plus he is probably reffering to the first quote which is jumping into poss's.
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.14 06:08:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Straight Edged
Kinda surprised that the huge reaction with a wishy washy CCP saying "i wish" , plus he is probably reffering to the first quote which is jumping into poss's.
That's wishful thinking on your part.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:04:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Straight Edged
Kinda surprised that the huge reaction with a wishy washy CCP saying "i wish"
Soundwave isn't saying "I wish" thoughà
Quote:
plus he is probably reffering to the first quote which is jumping into poss's.
Why would he be using the outer quote then, rather than answer that post directly?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:06:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Straight Edged on 14/05/2011 09:06:54
I do that all the time.
Its too difficult to find a single post.
Specially in a 77-page thread.
Might as well quote the whole thing. and put "I wish"
Gives a +1 post.
Not that it effects me in any way. Since everyone here is blue, might as well fit better stuff like TP's then ECCM.
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Jack Abramof
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Posted - 2011.05.14 12:05:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
lulwhut
Please post this "PVP mission running Tempest" that has slots for tackle, ECCM and neuts.
You know that the tempest have 6 low, right ? guess where the tank goes ?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.14 12:36:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Straight Edged
Its too difficult to find a single post.
Specially in a 77-page thread.
Might as well quote the whole thing. and put "I wish"
No need to find it ù you already have the quote. If you want to answer the quote, you use the quote you have, not a different one. So no, he probably wasn't responding to the inner quote, but to the outer one: the one talking about making ships unprobable.
àand again, Soundwave didn't say that he wished it ù he said that Furb's wish for the removal of unprobable ships would probably be granted.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.14 14:24:00 -
[116]
Quote:
In that case pve ship is always in big disadvantage once its probed. So... you are one of these pvp carebears who thinks hitting analyze 3 times is only thing you should do for getting kill?
Don't know where you are getting your inferences from but I mean EXACTLY what I said. You fail if you make it easy for the gankers.
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Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Alfa Lavala
Block Zero
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Posted - 2011.05.14 19:52:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Alfa Lavala on 14/05/2011 19:52:30
mission runners sad as it'll mean a big loss in isk overall. Non-mission runners are happy as they're jelly of all that isk they should've been earning but didn't have the skills/standings/etc to do so or the times where they wasted an hour trying to scan someone out before the guy in local linked "unprobeable" in evewiki.
I'll miss unprobeable cerb gangs though.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.05.14 23:12:00 -
[118]
In this thread : I am too poor to afford a T3 ganglink alt so therefore anyone who uses one in pvp is cheating.
If they are are made on grid it will be absolutely insane, who is going to want to be flying a ship that doesn't shoot anything? Making them on grid will just mean more people learning how to grid-fu so we can have our T3s 1000s of km away from the fight, don't expect to see paper-tanked lokis sat at 0 on a gate
Making them probable makes them vulnerable enough as it is, on grid will just mean everyone having like 10 bookmarks for every gate and station in every system they fight so they can quickly make some more grid up to sit the T3 at.
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Malema
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Posted - 2011.05.15 07:33:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Malema on 15/05/2011 07:33:35
Oh well , looks like it's time to start preparing and packing up to move back to hisex.
TY for heads up.
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Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:21:00 -
[120]
Gotta ask, but who the hell is stupid enough to mission... err, pve... actually, do ANYTHING in 0.0 or lowsec while not in a pvp capable ship? So what if you have to gimp your fit a bit to fit some GTFO ability? I'd rather lose 10mil/hr of income because I kill a little slower than my 200mil ishtar because I couldn't defend myself. Hostiles might come in? Use cloaky fleetmate/alt or fit your ship with some ewar to break enemy locks so you can get out. 2 range scripted sensor damps or a flight of EC-600s is all you really need(EC-600 rule because you don't have to gimp your fit). Using one of those 2 approaches(varies on mood and how many corpies are logged in) has kept me from getting ganked 90% of the times that people have tried since I got to 0.0. Hell, if you have a cloaky wingman he will even get paid with a portion of your bounties.
Also, did you know that if your not running em in a carrier, you will make more isk with 2-3 people running the sanc than just 1, due to killing them so much faster? Did you also know that gankers usually won't jump into a site with more than one combat ship(unless you are getting hotdropped, and then at least you get to see some nifty graphics before you die)?
Eve is not a single player game, and if you do things with a friend or 2 you will find yourself much safer, and a bit richer to boot 
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I don't post on an alt, I post on my forum main! |
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