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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aelius
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Posted - 2005.02.15 16:24:00 -
[61]
Burn the all seeing eye. At least in 0.0.
I will contribute with a pile of wood to the fire Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Crias Taylor
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Posted - 2005.02.15 17:29:00 -
[62]
Leave the map alone, it isn't like the blob updates instantly and sometimes they get stuck anyway ;)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 17:31:00 -
[63]
Lot of good that do a corporation trying to hide an operation in 0.0.
Convert Stations
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2005.02.15 19:01:00 -
[64]
I think the map should be changed, not burned.
First off, none of the current map functions should be instant. Let me get this straight, I have to train for months for probe skills, then spend what? 15-20 minutes triangulating with the little probe deals, and I sacrificed a slot on my ship, to find a ship in a system. But I can click one button and see all ships anywhere in the galaxy? Instantly?
So, we add time to scanning the map. Say, 2 to 5 minutes to get results from a "scan." There should be an "Astrocartography" or "Stellar Cartography" skill that governs your usage of the map.
With no skill in Astrocartography, the "Pilots in Space," and all the jumps/ships destroyed/pod kills would not be available. Autopilot would still avoid these systems but there would be no display on the map.
Astrocartography lets you use these options, with range and time limited by rank.
1 = 1 Jump, 5 Minutes per system scanned 2 = 2 Jumps 4 " " 3 = 3 Jumps 3 " " 4 = 4 Jumps 2 " " 5 = 5 Jumps 1 " "
POS stations would then also be able to have a "Deep Space Scanner" that lets a properly trained pilot extend this range. This makes POS stations useful for intel. Should have a max range of 25 jumps for a pilot with Astrocartography at 5.
Then you could make deployable objects that can be dropped in deep space of a system to let you remotely scan the surrounding systems -- 1 jump max range regardless of skill. This would allow patient, dedicated scouts to actually set up a network of scanners if they so desired.
This way all of that information is still available, just not as easily. You have to go to the map, select the system you want to scan, and then wait for the scan to complete. The scan fails if interrupted (your ship moves or activates any other module) and should be able to be performed while cloaked. Cloaked ships should not show up on system scans. If I can't detect them at 20km, how the hell am I detecting them at 20 light years?
I also believe simply removing "Pilots in Space" would solve a lot of problems. Players could see the jumps or lost ships climbing in an area and know to send scouts, but they wouldn't have an instant figure on the numbers they are going to run into, and you wouldn't have a gauranteed way of detecting incoming ships if you are camping or something.
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Kulatameh
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Posted - 2005.02.16 01:55:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Kulatameh on 16/02/2005 01:55:28 I think the only 0.0 stat that should show is pod kills, which makes logical sense because a report could be filed by the cloning facility when your clone was activated.
This would give vague intelligence to carebears on systems to avoid, but would pose no real restriction to an intelligent hunting party.
Discuss.
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Drahcir Nasom
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Posted - 2005.02.16 02:29:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Drahcir Nasom on 16/02/2005 02:30:44 Get rid of everybody showing up in local and "pilots in space" on the map and you can almost guarantee the following scenario happening in 0.0 space.
Small fleet (say 3 or 4 BS) of non-alliance players fly into alliance space to NPC hunt in a system with >1 gate. While hunting, an alliance member who has nothing better to do with his Eve subscription than flying round 5-10 systems all day every day checking every roid belt, planet and moon for intruders happens to stumble across the intruding fleet. Fleet spots scout and splits with each player flying to a different planet or moon. No skills exist to follow someone in warp, so scout has to guess where one of the intruders has gone, meanwhile he calls in reinforcements. Intruders either log off (but because they don't show in local the scout doesn't know they have logged, so he carries on searching for them) or they fly to a gate and jump to another system (again the scout doesn't know they have left the system). Reinforcements arrive at the place the intruders were last seen, but by this time they are either half a dozen systems away farming more rats or they are hiding at a planet/moon somewhere in a nearby system or they have logged off.
Unless PvPers manage to kill a target the moment they find it, or make it so the target can't warp away, they will never kill anything. All this will produce is PvPers complaining that it is even harder to find victims to kill, and alliances complaining that they have no control over "their" space, so they will go back to gate camping at chokepoints as these will be the only places they can find people.
Drahcir
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Leam
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Posted - 2005.02.16 03:06:00 -
[67]
nerf the map, it gives too much info in 0.0, make numbers inaccurate (no pilots, some pilots, many pilots, blob of death), or whatever idea you have, but do something with it.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.02.16 04:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Drahcir Nasom Edited by: Drahcir Nasom on 16/02/2005 02:30:44 Get rid of everybody showing up in local and "pilots in space" on the map and you can almost guarantee the following scenario happening in 0.0 space.
Small fleet (say 3 or 4 BS) of non-alliance players fly into alliance space to NPC hunt in a system with >1 gate. While hunting, an alliance member who has nothing better to do with his Eve subscription than flying round 5-10 systems all day every day checking every roid belt, planet and moon for intruders happens to stumble across the intruding fleet. Fleet spots scout and splits with each player flying to a different planet or moon. No skills exist to follow someone in warp, so scout has to guess where one of the intruders has gone, meanwhile he calls in reinforcements. Intruders either log off (but because they don't show in local the scout doesn't know they have logged, so he carries on searching for them) or they fly to a gate and jump to another system (again the scout doesn't know they have left the system). Reinforcements arrive at the place the intruders were last seen, but by this time they are either half a dozen systems away farming more rats or they are hiding at a planet/moon somewhere in a nearby system or they have logged off.
Unless PvPers manage to kill a target the moment they find it, or make it so the target can't warp away, they will never kill anything. All this will produce is PvPers complaining that it is even harder to find victims to kill, and alliances complaining that they have no control over "their" space, so they will go back to gate camping at chokepoints as these will be the only places they can find people.
Drahcir
OR, if the scout is smart and patient he gets a nice shiny covert ops frigate and goes looking. The npcers don't have the slightlest clue he's there until his re-inforcements jump in and say hello.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2005.02.16 06:24:00 -
[69]
I would like to see the map and local gone from EVE.
At a minimum map available with skills and local available with mid slot module.
Infinity Ziona
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Drahcir Nasom
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Posted - 2005.02.16 18:04:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Wild Rho OR, if the scout is smart and patient he gets a nice shiny covert ops frigate and goes looking. The npcers don't have the slightlest clue he's there until his re-inforcements jump in and say hello.
I still can't believe you would get people to actually spend their game time flying round checking every roid belt in every system on the off chance that they might actually find someone who shouldn't be there. Imagine they flew to the first belt and there was a gang of intruders at the last belt on the list, and then the scout flies to the second, meanwhile the intruders decide they have finished with the last belt and fly to the first belt, the scout will have missed them completely and not even know it. I can think of much better things to do with time than perpetually search for a needle in a haystack.
Drahcir
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2005.02.17 20:55:00 -
[71]
That is why I like the skill solution -- it still makes the information available on the map, but you have to have the skill, you have to be in range, and you have to spend the time to run the scan. Just turns free, instant intel into actual intel gathering "work."
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:23:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Drahcir Nasom
Originally by: Wild Rho OR, if the scout is smart and patient he gets a nice shiny covert ops frigate and goes looking. The npcers don't have the slightlest clue he's there until his re-inforcements jump in and say hello.
I still can't believe you would get people to actually spend their game time flying round checking every roid belt in every system on the off chance that they might actually find someone who shouldn't be there. Imagine they flew to the first belt and there was a gang of intruders at the last belt on the list, and then the scout flies to the second, meanwhile the intruders decide they have finished with the last belt and fly to the first belt, the scout will have missed them completely and not even know it. I can think of much better things to do with time than perpetually search for a needle in a haystack.
Drahcir
Sorry but that's pirating. You're not supposed to get it all given to you on a plate. If you don't like spending your time actually hunting your prey then choose another profession.
-- Polaris Lumine
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Geldorf Drakar
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:27:00 -
[73]
Im going to say just one thing. Ive been playing for nearly two years and getting rid of the map and local are the ABSOLUTE WORST idea I have ever heard. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:30:00 -
[74]
Then again you're alliance people and would be expected to say something conservative like that.
Convert Stations
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MrPops
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:36:00 -
[75]
Everything in EVE takes a long time to do. Getting rid of the map would make it worse to get around. In other words, the more time it takes to do stuff the less I want to play.
Leave the map alone and find yourself something else to ***** about and nerf. For as long as I've been playing, this idea ranks up there with the "get rid of the highways" brought to you by Cao Cao and Jash Illiam who I guess got tired of playing EVE.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:40:00 -
[76]
Worse is just another word for interesting.
Convert Stations
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MrPops
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:43:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Then again you're alliance people and would be expected to say something conservative like that.
This is not about being conservative, it's about gameplay and tedium. This game already ranks high in gameplay tedium, slowness, and time sinks. We need this game to be more fun and less about spending all your time getting somewhere.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:50:00 -
[78]
Keeping it highly predictable will remedy this how?
Convert Stations
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PaulAtreides
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Posted - 2005.02.17 22:54:00 -
[79]
Edited by: PaulAtreides on 17/02/2005 23:04:47
Originally by: Danton Marcellus I've never said I wanted a Cloak of Concord either, I only want the means to operate in 0.0.
Whoever said we'd settle before we thought we could make a stand? You're assuming too much.
If you can't survive in 0.0 because of the map, I don't believe you belong in 0.0 There are a lot of corps that operate in 0.0 space in direct violation to the alliance that 'hold' the space. These corps fight for there lives in 0.0 because that is what 0.0 space is all about. If you want to come to 0.0 and have the map hide your whearabouts because you don't want to fight... perhaps you should rethink your reasons for comeing to LAWLESS space in the first place.
With Respect, PaulAtreides
Want to work for me? |
Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.02.17 23:03:00 -
[80]
Well this is the only direction that I would vote for....
1. Any rated system have map as now (0.1 - 1.0)
2. 0.0 systems pilots in space is an average over 1 day
3. Local stays or is replaced with a HUD display showing the number of pilots in that system in real time.
4. Trans-system probes are released.
-QG
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.17 23:09:00 -
[81]
We'd like a chance to avoid to fight everyone at once, not everyone ever again. Me personally would for example never want to see someone on the other side of the scope sporting Thundercats colors. I'd rather run, log and go wash my eyes with soap.
Who lives 23/7 in 0.0 without being part of the clique? Do tell.
Convert Stations
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Phony v2
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Posted - 2005.02.17 23:25:00 -
[82]
I agree with some posts. Even if the skill route is allowed it should never go past 5-10 jumps out. However you should be allowed to see the jumps and such from the day before to see what systems have an active market and so on...
_______________________________________________ Yes, in the back, the retard with the dumb question? |
MrPops
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Posted - 2005.02.17 23:37:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Keeping it highly predictable will remedy this how?
Lets not forget that this is all your opinion based on your experience of the game. You in no way represent the playerbase nor the sentiments of the majority.
The solution you present here is not a balanced one since it gets rid of a game feature entirely, without proposing a well thought out alternative that adds to the gameplay and fun. Getting rid of something because YOU *think* it will make it more interesting is not a solid argument for anything. You better come up with something REALLY good.
Why don't we ask CCP to vote on this issue (like we have before) so you can see how quickly this idea is killed.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2005.02.17 23:56:00 -
[84]
burn the map -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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symmetry
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Posted - 2005.02.18 15:54:00 -
[85]
My 2 pence:-
Remove "pilots in space" on all non-empire space.
Remove "ships destroyed in the last X hours" and "escape pods destroyed in the last X hours" and "number of pilots currently docked and active" and "pirate and police ships destroyed in the last 24 hours" for everyone except people with a very high security level.
Remove "jumps in the last hour" for everyone except people with a medium or higher security level.
Have the option to "subscribe" to the local chat channel or not, if you don't subscribe, you can't see who's on local and they can't see you. Give a delay of 1 minute to ending your subscription to local chat. If you jump during this delay time it resets to 1 minute.
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Time Killer
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Posted - 2005.02.18 16:17:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Time Killer on 18/02/2005 16:30:55 I like being able to look at a map and see where I am the the damn galaxy. I like being able to look at my route and get a feel for how the systems are arranged around each other. I like being able to see if I have to go through low sec space in an industrial.
Christ not EVERYONE who plays this game is part of a big alliance in 0.0 who will have dedicated scouts or watchtower PoSs...
Chuck pilots in space/docked/podkills/shipkills outside empire. Or how about making sec rating MEAN something and Concord only dishes out that info /in Empire/ to people with a good sec rating?
But ffs leave the map alone as it is in Empire!
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 18:10:00 -
[87]
I have posted numerous threads with suggestions how to improve without the map as it is now, this thread is merely a bump to get it back into the eye of the devs.
Everyone who is anyone with half a brain that has been playing the game for a long time ought to know of the benefits of killing the map. Skills have been mentioned as have percentage chance scanning & cloaking modules.
I'm guessing you MrPops is all about predictability and crunching numbers, you by all means should stay on the inside and leave the gamble to be taken to me.
Convert Stations
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.02.18 19:13:00 -
[88]
What I find hilarious is that, effectively, what Danton is proposing is EXACTLY how things are in empire at this time.
Corp declares war on alliance, alliance in empire can hide in the blobs, so can the enemy.
This is why most pvp corps are now moving in to empire to attack alliances - they can sneak up on them.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.02.18 19:17:00 -
[89]
It's a double edged sword really.
System scanning would need some luvin' first IMHO.
Mai's Idealog |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.02.18 19:57:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 18/02/2005 20:00:07 Edited by: Rod Blaine on 18/02/2005 19:58:18 Nuke the pilots in space map, keep local AND all other map features (gives some intell at least to discourage camping same spots for longer time).
Add some pos mods that can give some info over a few jumps around it to someone thats at the CT.
Please, no substitute info via agents of skills, we got enuff of that.
Ah yes, and probes would need lubbin. Faster results plz, make covops use em cloaked too. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
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