EVE Search - Daily Vote

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Daily Vote - Kill The Map

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.13 23:34:00 - [1] Can I get a 'Hell Yeah!' or a more moderate 'I Don't Want Your Stuff, I Can Make My Own Intel' Burn the map! As long as there is an allseeing eye there will be no Exodus. Convert Stations
Fester Addams	Posted - 2005.02.13 23:40:00 - [2] ratehr than asking for a nice cozy bonfire with the map as main attraction why not ask for a skill based map. Skill lev 1: Get info on system you are in and ajoining ones, how many peeps are in this system, in stations and so on. Skill lev 2: You get info on 5 systems out. Skill lev 3: You get info on entire region as well as 5 systems into ajoining ones. Skill lev 4: you get the region you are in and the entire ajoining regions. Skill lev 5: Entire map.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.13 23:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Fester Addams ratehr than asking for a nice cozy bonfire with the map as main attraction why not ask for a skill based map. Skill lev 1: Get info on system you are in and ajoining ones, how many peeps are in this system, in stations and so on. Skill lev 2: You get info on 5 systems out. Skill lev 3: You get info on entire region as well as 5 systems into ajoining ones. Skill lev 4: you get the region you are in and the entire ajoining regions. Skill lev 5: Entire map. Nah. Nuke the map and, if you go the skill route, it should never exceed more than 5 jumps.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.13 23:50:00 - [4] As is now we're in a 1 year holding pattern as I won't push for a move to 0.0 with the current features as I know the fraghags will descend upon us as locust from day 1. Hoping every day CCP will realize the error of their ways, getting old in the process... Convert Stations
Selena 001	Posted - 2005.02.13 23:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Fester Addams ratehr than asking for a nice cozy bonfire with the map as main attraction why not ask for a skill based map. Skill lev 1: Get info on system you are in and ajoining ones, how many peeps are in this system, in stations and so on. ... I'm sorry... Do you not think we have enough crap to train at the moment, without you thinking of extra's for CCP to add? ___________ I only have 5 months left of 'knowing at all'... I had better put it to good use
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:02:00 - [6] Skills could be one way to go, however his solution was way too easy/drastic and would end up just another bandaid. You don't have to learn every skill out there you know... Convert Stations
Elewin	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:08:00 - [7] Already been mentioned b4 but also get rid of local!! or just have it if some1 speaks they appear. Another solution would be depending on your standings with the npc controllers of the solar system they give inform you of things like -When a player who is at war with you enters -When a players with a negative standing enters system etc. etc. In 0.0 u wouldnt get anything thou, so just be safe in empire. Just my opion You can run, but you'd only die tired.
Kiono Wakefield	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:14:00 - [8] Agreed, the map give waaayyyyyyy to much info.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Danton Marcellus As is now we're in a 1 year holding pattern as I won't push for a move to 0.0 with the current features as I know the fraghags will descend upon us as locust from day 1. Hoping every day CCP will realize the error of their ways, getting old in the process... Right. So you dont live in 0.0 and think you have some idea about how it works? I live in 0.0 and the map is what protects me from the "fraghags". People who just like to randomly gank will (OMG) just move around randomly ganking. 0.0 space has very limted routes (even once past the "chokes") so it would be trivial to setup camps out in deep 0.0 with no map to warn people. --------------------------------------------------
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:18:00 - [10] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 14/02/2005 00:21:33 I know it's been mentioned before, I brought it up well over a year ago yet nothing has happened. Everyone with half a brain can see this would be good for the game. Oh and raptor I do think I've been in 0.0 enough to have an informed opinion. Convert Stations
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:23:00 - [11] Originally by: theRaptor Right. So you dont live in 0.0 and think you have some idea about how it works? I live in 0.0 and the map is what protects me from the "fraghags". People who just like to randomly gank will (OMG) just move around randomly ganking. 0.0 space has very limted routes (even once past the "chokes") so it would be trivial to setup camps out in deep 0.0 with no map to warn people. Raptor, with respect, do you know how we find our kills? Do you know where 90% of our intel comes from, when it is working? The map. We see a 3 or 4 man blob in a system, we just send scouts straight there, no hassle, see what's up. Without the map do you think we'd bring our entire fleet 40 jumps without first sending a scout? How many scouts might we have? Christ, the map makes ganking people EASY - yet those of us who rely on it so much are one of the most vocal groups that want rid of the damn thing - it gives us far too much information.
Jorlin	Posted - 2005.02.14 01:48:00 - [12] disclaimer: i'm just stating my own point of view. i don't claim to speak for any mayority! Quote: As long as there is an allseeing eye there will be no Exodus. not sure why you think removing the map will make people venture into 0 sec. do you think just because they have no information about recent kills or number of people in the systems they have to pass, will make them less "scared"? like children closing their eyes because "what i can't see, can't hurt me"? hmmm...don't think it would work. i just like the empire. that's because i can log in and ask myself "now what i gonna do today? some missions, grab some minerals and produce something or do some ice mining (no, i don't actually even THINK about mining)?". it's the same reason why i don't go skydiving, motorracing, speedskiing, bungee jumping or stuff like this...i don't need the kicks. i just need to relax... don't get me wrong, i enjoy a little PvP now and then. i even think pirates are a necessarity in this game and so i won't go for the old "you just want more targets" argument. - removing the map won't make me leave empire. - removing the highways won't make me leave empire. - removing the ice from highsec won't make me leave empire. - removing agents from highsec won't make me leave empire. - removing all ore won't make me leave empire. - removing all NPC pirates won't make me leave empire. but - too many of the above combined would make me leave...the game and noone would get my stuff then no police, no summons, no courts of law; no proper procedure, no rules of war; no mitigating circumstance; no lawyers fees, no second chance!
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.02.14 02:16:00 - [13] Edited by: theRaptor on 14/02/2005 02:19:14 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: theRaptor Right. So you dont live in 0.0 and think you have some idea about how it works? I live in 0.0 and the map is what protects me from the "fraghags". People who just like to randomly gank will (OMG) just move around randomly ganking. 0.0 space has very limted routes (even once past the "chokes") so it would be trivial to setup camps out in deep 0.0 with no map to warn people. Raptor, with respect, do you know how we find our kills? Do you know where 90% of our intel comes from, when it is working? The map. We see a 3 or 4 man blob in a system, we just send scouts straight there, no hassle, see what's up. Without the map do you think we'd bring our entire fleet 40 jumps without first sending a scout? How many scouts might we have? Christ, the map makes ganking people EASY - yet those of us who rely on it so much are one of the most vocal groups that want rid of the damn thing - it gives us far too much information. And how does the 3-4 man blob fail to notice your blob? And also fail to notice your scouts in local? Yes the map is no good to people that obviously dont use it (And who apparently dont check local either). But without the map you could just sweep through the major 0.0 systems (and most 0.0 has 2-3 gates per system) and kill everyone along the way. Yes removal of the map will reduce alliance blobbing some what (though I think some cowards will still blob out of fear), but will make it very easy for a single group to decimate a single region. Sure you might be able to hide a mining op in some backwater, but what good does that do you when gank patrols are sitting in wait in all the bottlenecks? For this scheme to work 0.0 would need a number of gates per system to be a lot close to empire. --------------------------------------------------
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.02.14 02:22:00 - [14] Im all for burning the map. I've already made a couple of posts with reasons and im too tired to bring em all up here again. Let it burn and let people who work for it get the intel. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.02.14 03:23:00 - [15] /me readies his blowtorch and burning-map-handling-gloves(tm). ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Ardor	Posted - 2005.02.14 03:24:00 - [16] I agree with theRaptor. I don't want to fly around blind in 0.0. Removing the map would only encourage more blobs with scouts around the blobs. Everyone else will be dead sooner or later. A compromise would be a skill which allows to see pilots in space on the map for one more system around you for each level.
myggan	Posted - 2005.02.14 03:26:00 - [17] i remeber this ccp had a vote about it 1 1/2 year ago think 80% of eve said no to it
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.02.14 03:40:00 - [18] the other idea is hidden systems on the outer fringes - those skill levels would raise access to being able to see them. They could be new systems added by CCP - dunno its an idea to branch off this main problem i say yes keep the entire map visible - perhaps hidden starbases within the system that qould require skill levels to see ?
Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.14 04:04:00 - [19] Edited by: Sorja on 14/02/2005 04:06:33 Talking about 0.0 here (in Empire, no map would be fortune on a silver plate to griefers), the 'all blind everywhere' would wipe small groups of deep space, because who could gather the biggest blob would rake in kills at an incredible pace. I fear it would lead to massive blobbage (which is already a major pain) and remove industrial corps from 0.0 It's already hard to find ammo, ships and modules up there, there would be no life nor trade left at all. Only the hardcore PvPers could survive, if they don't get disguted being out-blobbed everytime. At best, that would lead to huge alliances against whom many people complain about already. Last thing, it would be very hard to come back and forth to Empire solo when we need modules or simply want to sell our loot. I don't see me asking for an escort (which should be massive since the chokepoints would be camped to hell by people who can seek safety in Empire as soon as a their screen fills with ships) everytime I need to get through a chokepoint. But, I'd like to be wrong. I really would like to. If the 'ganking attitude' could disappear, it would be for the better. I just don't see how the 'no map no local' could help.
hitech redneck	Posted - 2005.02.14 04:06:00 - [20] keep the map as is.
Cortex Reaver	Posted - 2005.02.14 04:18:00 - [21] Pilots in-space/docked and the local user list needs to go away. This came up for vote once, and the majority favored the idea, but the wording of the vote was confusing, so the majority voted against it. -CR /* Cortex Reaver crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 */
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.14 07:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Danton Marcellus As long as there is an allseeing eye there will be no Exodus. Even without it there won't be. At least not on the scale we all seem to think CCP wants. So you remove the "pilots in space" bit from the map. Now a whole load of Empire corps feel safe in venturing out into 0.0. Maybe small and mid sized corps. They bring a POS or two. Now what? Simple. The Alliance who claims the territory they've moved into will find them eventually. Removal of pilots in space isn't some magical "we're never gunna be found" panacea. It might take weeks or even months, but they will be found. Then what? Yup, gank time. Or at least lots and lots of fighting. And with the coming of Dreads and Titans etc taking down a POS will be much more easily doable. Personally I don't see much of a problem with a change to pilots in space, but I don't want a complete removal. Skills to get some of that information back, POS modules to allow territory claiming, etc have all been suggested before and are much better alternatives to simple removal. They add paths and abilities to the game, which is always a good thing.
Lygos	Posted - 2005.02.14 07:47:00 - [23] I think the map should be exchanged for something else but certainly the whole omniscience thing plays against risk management. A skill based solution is pointless. What I'd rather see is the map be gone, but players can deploy anchorable watchtowers. If someone enters a system, that beacon sends a header line to the owner, or to the members of his corp. The beacons are findable and easy to destroy. Options for the beacons: Give them limited range instead of system-wide monitoring. Or make them only report flagged individuals. Or have them only report ships passing through rather than owners. Or only a specific class or type of ships for the purposes of the owner (RP, or piracy, or fighter). Or put them on a timer to send a mail every 20 minutes with a list (if there is a list) of ships passing to the owner. Beacons should fairly affordable, but require effort to maintain so that people can only operate a handful or less of them. (I am assuming devs are opposed to deployable objects for server limitations.) They can serve as a great distraction to a fleet because the destruction of one may not constitute an incursion but rather a decoy that needs to be investigated in order to regain a group's sight of the field. If they have to be deployed in public spaces rather than at sortofsafespots then they will then be restricted to monitoring traffic in pocket constellations rather than major highways, where they would be annihilated casually. Complexity is good.
NaZguL	Posted - 2005.02.14 08:33:00 - [24] Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Danton Marcellus As long as there is an allseeing eye there will be no Exodus. Even without it there won't be. At least not on the scale we all seem to think CCP wants. So you remove the "pilots in space" bit from the map. Now a whole load of Empire corps feel safe in venturing out into 0.0. Maybe small and mid sized corps. They bring a POS or two. Now what? Simple. The Alliance who claims the territory they've moved into will find them eventually. Removal of pilots in space isn't some magical "we're never gunna be found" panacea. It might take weeks or even months, but they will be found. Then what? Yup, gank time. Or at least lots and lots of fighting. And with the coming of Dreads and Titans etc taking down a POS will be much more easily doable. Personally I don't see much of a problem with a change to pilots in space, but I don't want a complete removal. Skills to get some of that information back, POS modules to allow territory claiming, etc have all been suggested before and are much better alternatives to simple removal. They add paths and abilities to the game, which is always a good thing. POS modules for territory claming is a good idea , and nessesary , because without it alliances will never agree to map nerfing, but as long as the modules are nerfed enough its ok for me aswell, with the current map an alliance, can with ease control 100+ solarsystems just by looking at the map. imo that makes the universe of eve many many times smaller then it realy is
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.02.14 09:52:00 - [25] Why not just impose a delay on the map data? 1.0 - Up to date... ... 0.5 - 5 mins out. ... 0.0 - 10 mins out. ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Nomeshta	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:09:00 - [26] I think removing the map features in 0.0 would just make its population reduce. Already 0.0 players are complaining that the number of people inhabiting those areas are declining. Making 0.0 blind won't change that. - Caution: Ninja Fingers WTB: Implants
MadGaz	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:12:00 - [27] Well if you removed it you'd have to have scouts constantly patrol, which I'm in favour of. But then again I can't imagine being without it ------------------------------------------
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:17:00 - [28] Originally by: MadGaz Well if you removed it you'd have to have scouts constantly patrol, which I'm in favour of. But then again I can't imagine being without it Thats why making that kind of info available as part of a POS / claiming territory function would be good. Also adding some small-effect skills would be nice too. Max a few jumps out sort of skills. That way when a fleet is moving around, the scouts can stay a few jumps ahead/behind and still be able to use SOME map information. Nice sig btw
Kar Brogan	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:31:00 - [29] I agree with the above, the amount of space an alliance can control should be the amount they can protect with patrols.The removal of the map would greatly reduce the power of the curent alliances to the point where a medium sized fleet would be required to effectivly cover a constellation, where as currently they can cover a whole region or more. The idea of watchtowers is a good one, i personally would like to see more player created structures that are relativly cheep and can be easly destroyed, but rather than sending a message i think they should provide the current map functionality, but within a 2 or 3 jump radius. If these 'watchtowers' were limited in their possible postions (such as the current POS which must be placed around moons), then it would give smaller corps the chance to launch a few strikes to take them out, set up their own, and go about their buisness with small safety margin. As for the complaint that removing the map will allow blobbers to hit smaller groups by using scouts..if the smaller group was smart enough to send out a few scouts of its own, the approaching fleet could be detected. Of course, people will not start moving out into 0.0 untill the choke points are gone, map or no map.
Dloan	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:40:00 - [30] Get rid of the map and impliment proper tools for gathering intel. Probes to detect incoming gate traffic or other things, scouts can relay information to the map for the alliance/corp, sensors to detect warp signatures so you can tell how many people passed by recently and what they were flying etc, warp distortion caused by many jumping ships can be detected x jumps ahead, stuff like that. PvP in Eve is like looking for a needle in a haystack which is why choke points and gate camps are a necessity. Give PvP a whole new edge by giving players the tools for proper hunting and evasion.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:43:00 - [31] Originally by: Kar Brogan I agree with the above, the amount of space an alliance can control should be the amount they can protect with patrols.The removal of the map would greatly reduce the power of the curent alliances to the point where a medium sized fleet would be required to effectivly cover a constellation, where as currently they can cover a whole region or more. My point about that is that it wouldn't affect an alliance, at least not in the way most people seem to think. The alliance wopuld continue to claim all the space they currently do, and when they discover an "invader" would just blob up and go make their life hell. You'd need to be able to bring somewhat equal numbers into alliance space to be effective, with or without the map. A corp could move into alliance space temporarily of course, setup a POS, do some mining refining etc. But basically the longer you stay (which seems to be the point of "Exodus" no?) the greater the chances you'll be found. The only thing map removal does is prevent instant response.
Aretemus	Posted - 2005.02.14 11:41:00 - [32] Keep the map. Lose the pilots in space for areas outside of Concord control, i.e. 0.0 space. With the delay it's useless anyway. From a science fiction standpoint, having a map that displays the latest pod kills, jumps, etc. would be normal because the gates would record jumps, Concord handles pod kills in higher security zones and so on, so they'd file a report which would show up. Of course, without Concord in 0.0, you wouldn't get a pod kill or ships destroyed report. (Actually, they would report kill mail to the central office which would generate a report in a normal setting, but let's forget that part for now) But you should still get a jump report as reported by the gates. Using A2-V27 as an example, I'd see a lot of traffic, but unless someone PK's in the higher security areas adjacent to that gate, I'd go happily to my doom at the oft camped A2-V27-->Kaira gate. Or, I'd fit my ship accordingly to get past possible problems. Another thing, without some sort of map, you can't plot jumps into 0.0 anyway. Couple that with a "local only showing if speaking" feature in chat and you bring back a level of the unknown for 0.0 space. And it would be normal for deep space gates to have a reporting delay, as it would take longer for the gate report to be transmitted from gate to gate to the central Concord computers. How long a delay should vary with how deep into 0.0 the gates are.
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.02.14 11:44:00 - [33] some fringe systems could have a fog of war effect - ie certain intel reported but alliances / corps coudl gather a greater picture by watchtowers - scout drones etc. Limiting their positions would also be good. Perhaps a few special hidden systems added by the game dev could also be added to encourage greater exploration. Anyway keep discussing these ideas and adding more the dev team might find something useful
Bohr	Posted - 2005.02.14 14:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 14/02/2005 00:21:33 I know it's been mentioned before, I brought it up well over a year ago yet nothing has happened. Everyone with half a brain can see this would be good for the game. Oh and raptor I do think I've been in 0.0 enough to have an informed opinion. You ever noticed the very small support for this idea? May be why you've been waiting for a year, and probably will be waiting longer. So you can get a "Hell no!!!" :)
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.14 14:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Bohr Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 14/02/2005 00:21:33 I know it's been mentioned before, I brought it up well over a year ago yet nothing has happened. Everyone with half a brain can see this would be good for the game. Oh and raptor I do think I've been in 0.0 enough to have an informed opinion. You ever noticed the very small support for this idea? May be why you've been waiting for a year, and probably will be waiting longer. So you can get a "Hell no!!!" :) More people support it than you think. You think the forums are representative of opinions in-game? Righto.
Prothos	Posted - 2005.02.14 15:03:00 - [36] i think the map is fine the way it is so leave it. Griefers. gankers or what ever they want to be called is the only ones that realy won't this.
NoNameNewbie	Posted - 2005.02.14 15:04:00 - [37] map = ok show pilots in space = kick it to jove space ....
flummox	Posted - 2005.02.14 15:12:00 - [38] i'll say this again... if you want your clones to work properly, then the network has to know exactly where you are so it can activate your clone the second your pod is breached. how do you think to be cloned without this technology? don't wanna show up on the map? don't get a clone... there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
Matthew	Posted - 2005.02.14 15:16:00 - [39] Originally by: mahhy My point about that is that it wouldn't affect an alliance, at least not in the way most people seem to think. The alliance wopuld continue to claim all the space they currently do, and when they discover an "invader" would just blob up and go make their life hell. You'd need to be able to bring somewhat equal numbers into alliance space to be effective, with or without the map. A corp could move into alliance space temporarily of course, setup a POS, do some mining refining etc. But basically the longer you stay (which seems to be the point of "Exodus" no?) the greater the chances you'll be found. The only thing map removal does is prevent instant response. Yep, and if you added the idea of "watchtower" etc bits into that mix, you'd end up with even more powerful alliances, as they'd install the things all over their space and thus outmanuever any potential "invader". 0.0 expansion would be further curtailed due to alliance dominance of the space, and general reluctance to open up to new people.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 00:06:00 - [40] Originally by: myggan i remeber this ccp had a vote about it 1 1/2 year ago think 80% of eve said no to it It was more like 60/40 with the alliance people quivering in their pantys about people possibly taking their ****, them not seeing every intruder at once. Fear is your only god. Bohr, I know you'll slam every idea I ever post 'cause you think you're a superior being so your 'no-one agrees with you, go away!' approach doesn't phase me one bit. In fact if you'd agreed with me I'd gotten a little confused and gone looking for a possible flaw. Convert Stations
Damajink	Posted - 2005.02.15 00:19:00 - [41] IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.15 01:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE WTS: Scouts.
Damajink	Posted - 2005.02.15 02:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE WTS: Scouts. No local, no map, what's the scout gonna see? You really think people are going to sit at planets scanning gates all day in the hope they catch someone on the jump in? Hello even more gateganks than there are right now.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.15 02:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Damajink Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE WTS: Scouts. You really think people are going to sit at planets scanning gates all day in the hope they catch someone on the jump in? No, I expect scouts to go out, find the mining op, then call in the cavalry. I expect further use of spies. I expect well known mining spots to be vacated and people use POS refinery's more often because they can be moved. People will take the 25% hit on refining because they know they can hide away. I expect dead end and / or two way systems to become strategically valuable, because they require minimal scouts. In short, I expect to work harder to find kills and for it to be easier to sneek up on them if they're not willing to put the effort in to making sure they know what is going on around them. That is how it should be, imo. If you wanna go gate ganking, then by all means be my guest, we'll just swing past on the way through and have a blast.
Razor Jaxx	Posted - 2005.02.15 07:29:00 - [45] Agreed with the following : - Lose the "pilots in space" and "pilots docked and active" map displays. - Do not show a player in local unless he/she talks. You can still derive sufficient information from the map by using the gate jumps and ship kills displays. Scouting will have a true meaning again. No more blobbing/docking at the mere sighting of a neutral pilot. And local "fog-of-war" will make smackers stfu or starve. This will also give a new meaning to the soloers out there who want to make a career in deep-space exploration, they could actually money their experience and service. All changes for the good, obviously.
Ranger Whitestar	Posted - 2005.02.15 11:49:00 - [46] Edited by: Ranger Whitestar on 15/02/2005 11:55:14 you dont need to frag the map, just restrict it. whatever race you are gets you the intel on the whole part of the map they own. so caldari would be instantly be able to see all caldari space. as for the rest, go explore and find out and stop being boring. once you do explore a region it becomes availible on the map to see, but you dont get all but basic intel (pod/ship kills in the last 24 hours) on it. to increase the intel you have, get a good standing with an agent in the system/region. there would be a reason to run missions for intelligence agents then. well thats the way id like to see it work, never played a game where everything was explored before i explored it. and yo be quite frank that has taken a whole area of what this game should have gameplay wise away. one of the main reasons to play games like this is to explore and find stuff.
voodoo	Posted - 2005.02.15 11:55:00 - [47] Map is fine. imo Howabout this for a new project for ccp FIX THE FLEET BATTLE LAG! BAH FIX THE SERVERS!!! The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
Damajink	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Damajink Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE WTS: Scouts. You really think people are going to sit at planets scanning gates all day in the hope they catch someone on the jump in? No, I expect scouts to go out, find the mining op, then call in the cavalry. I expect further use of spies. I expect well known mining spots to be vacated and people use POS refinery's more often because they can be moved. People will take the 25% hit on refining because they know they can hide away. I expect dead end and / or two way systems to become strategically valuable, because they require minimal scouts. In short, I expect to work harder to find kills and for it to be easier to sneek up on them if they're not willing to put the effort in to making sure they know what is going on around them. That is how it should be, imo. If you wanna go gate ganking, then by all means be my guest, we'll just swing past on the way through and have a blast. But this is the problem. Making people work harder for kills is all well and good, but this system once again just favours the attacker even more. I would support removal of local OR the map, but not both. I really don't see how PvP will be improved with the loss of both. There are already too many gate camps in this game and they will simply increase.
BuRnEr	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:46:00 - [49] better scanner - yes map - yes local - no
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:33:00 - [50] Sorry but removing local and keeping the telltale signatures of the map only caters to pirates & alliances. I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas. Convert Stations
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:36:00 - [51] map skill levels anyone Another idea level 1 allows you to see 5 map sectors in each direction Level 2 gives you 10 Level 3 gives you 50 Level 4 gives you 200 Level 5 gives you 1000 Level 6 gives 5000 Level 7 - gives access to special systems (if they are added hidden ssytems that yield rare minerals, highly dangerous NPC BS fleets or even gladiator areans) ? Or the much valuted gambling system - casino where you can make or lose a fortune ?
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:00:00 - [52] Too easy and again making EVE a lot smaller and shallow than it need to be. Convert Stations
Damajink	Posted - 2005.02.15 15:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Sorry but removing local and keeping the telltale signatures of the map only caters to pirates & alliances. I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas. So you want 0.0 without the danger?
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 15:06:00 - [54] Since when did certain death get watered down to mean danger? Convert Stations
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.15 15:10:00 - [55] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Sorry but removing local and keeping the telltale signatures of the map only caters to pirates & alliances. I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas. And you think not showing up on the map is going mean you can live in 0.0 in alliance claimed territory? They'll never find you? They won't see you travelling between Empire and your new home? No body will stumble across you randomly? The alliances wouldn't ask members to actually scout around a bit? You still be found, it would just take longer. At which point you still have to contend with whoever claims that space. With or without map its still 0.0 space.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 15:13:00 - [56] Yes and your point being? Convert Stations
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.15 15:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Yes and your point being? If its certain death now, its still certain death without the map. Its just certain delayed.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 15:17:00 - [58] Well then delay it so there's some hope in hell the fraghags will be too complacant or busy otherwise. The certainty of it all keeps people out, we know what to expect as they know, if they don't then they'll have to work for it and my guess is you people will work less than you boast about being able to. Convert Stations
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.15 16:08:00 - [59] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Well then delay it so there's some hope in hell the fraghags will be too complacant or busy otherwise. The certainty of it all keeps people out, we know what to expect as they know, if they don't then they'll have to work for it and my guess is you people will work less than you boast about being able to. I never said I was fully opposed to changing the map. I'm simply trying to point out the utter fallacy in thinking that because the maps gone you have more chance of surviving in 0.0. Your the one who said: Originally by: Danton Marcellus I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas. If you think that alliance claimed space is certain death now, I'm just saying nothings changed except the time it takes for you to be discovered. Once a target has been discovered the "fraghags" as you put it will still come running. Changing the map would possibly allow groups/corps more freedom of movement, but once you settle into an area/system, you're just as likely to be attacked.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 16:19:00 - [60] I've never said I wanted a Cloak of Concord either, I only want the means to operate in 0.0. Whoever said we'd settle before we thought we could make a stand? You're assuming too much. Convert Stations
Aelius	Posted - 2005.02.15 16:24:00 - [61] Burn the all seeing eye. At least in 0.0. I will contribute with a pile of wood to the fire Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Crias Taylor	Posted - 2005.02.15 17:29:00 - [62] Leave the map alone, it isn't like the blob updates instantly and sometimes they get stuck anyway ;)
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.15 17:31:00 - [63] Lot of good that do a corporation trying to hide an operation in 0.0. Convert Stations
Kraven Kor	Posted - 2005.02.15 19:01:00 - [64] I think the map should be changed, not burned. First off, none of the current map functions should be instant. Let me get this straight, I have to train for months for probe skills, then spend what? 15-20 minutes triangulating with the little probe deals, and I sacrificed a slot on my ship, to find a ship in a system. But I can click one button and see all ships anywhere in the galaxy? Instantly? So, we add time to scanning the map. Say, 2 to 5 minutes to get results from a "scan." There should be an "Astrocartography" or "Stellar Cartography" skill that governs your usage of the map. With no skill in Astrocartography, the "Pilots in Space," and all the jumps/ships destroyed/pod kills would not be available. Autopilot would still avoid these systems but there would be no display on the map. Astrocartography lets you use these options, with range and time limited by rank. 1 = 1 Jump, 5 Minutes per system scanned 2 = 2 Jumps 4 " " 3 = 3 Jumps 3 " " 4 = 4 Jumps 2 " " 5 = 5 Jumps 1 " " POS stations would then also be able to have a "Deep Space Scanner" that lets a properly trained pilot extend this range. This makes POS stations useful for intel. Should have a max range of 25 jumps for a pilot with Astrocartography at 5. Then you could make deployable objects that can be dropped in deep space of a system to let you remotely scan the surrounding systems -- 1 jump max range regardless of skill. This would allow patient, dedicated scouts to actually set up a network of scanners if they so desired. This way all of that information is still available, just not as easily. You have to go to the map, select the system you want to scan, and then wait for the scan to complete. The scan fails if interrupted (your ship moves or activates any other module) and should be able to be performed while cloaked. Cloaked ships should not show up on system scans. If I can't detect them at 20km, how the hell am I detecting them at 20 light years? I also believe simply removing "Pilots in Space" would solve a lot of problems. Players could see the jumps or lost ships climbing in an area and know to send scouts, but they wouldn't have an instant figure on the numbers they are going to run into, and you wouldn't have a gauranteed way of detecting incoming ships if you are camping or something.
Kulatameh	Posted - 2005.02.16 01:55:00 - [65] Edited by: Kulatameh on 16/02/2005 01:55:28 I think the only 0.0 stat that should show is pod kills, which makes logical sense because a report could be filed by the cloning facility when your clone was activated. This would give vague intelligence to carebears on systems to avoid, but would pose no real restriction to an intelligent hunting party. Discuss.
Drahcir Nasom	Posted - 2005.02.16 02:29:00 - [66] Edited by: Drahcir Nasom on 16/02/2005 02:30:44 Get rid of everybody showing up in local and "pilots in space" on the map and you can almost guarantee the following scenario happening in 0.0 space. Small fleet (say 3 or 4 BS) of non-alliance players fly into alliance space to NPC hunt in a system with >1 gate. While hunting, an alliance member who has nothing better to do with his Eve subscription than flying round 5-10 systems all day every day checking every roid belt, planet and moon for intruders happens to stumble across the intruding fleet. Fleet spots scout and splits with each player flying to a different planet or moon. No skills exist to follow someone in warp, so scout has to guess where one of the intruders has gone, meanwhile he calls in reinforcements. Intruders either log off (but because they don't show in local the scout doesn't know they have logged, so he carries on searching for them) or they fly to a gate and jump to another system (again the scout doesn't know they have left the system). Reinforcements arrive at the place the intruders were last seen, but by this time they are either half a dozen systems away farming more rats or they are hiding at a planet/moon somewhere in a nearby system or they have logged off. Unless PvPers manage to kill a target the moment they find it, or make it so the target can't warp away, they will never kill anything. All this will produce is PvPers complaining that it is even harder to find victims to kill, and alliances complaining that they have no control over "their" space, so they will go back to gate camping at chokepoints as these will be the only places they can find people. Drahcir
Leam	Posted - 2005.02.16 03:06:00 - [67] nerf the map, it gives too much info in 0.0, make numbers inaccurate (no pilots, some pilots, many pilots, blob of death), or whatever idea you have, but do something with it.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.02.16 04:59:00 - [68] Originally by: Drahcir Nasom Edited by: Drahcir Nasom on 16/02/2005 02:30:44 Get rid of everybody showing up in local and "pilots in space" on the map and you can almost guarantee the following scenario happening in 0.0 space. Small fleet (say 3 or 4 BS) of non-alliance players fly into alliance space to NPC hunt in a system with >1 gate. While hunting, an alliance member who has nothing better to do with his Eve subscription than flying round 5-10 systems all day every day checking every roid belt, planet and moon for intruders happens to stumble across the intruding fleet. Fleet spots scout and splits with each player flying to a different planet or moon. No skills exist to follow someone in warp, so scout has to guess where one of the intruders has gone, meanwhile he calls in reinforcements. Intruders either log off (but because they don't show in local the scout doesn't know they have logged, so he carries on searching for them) or they fly to a gate and jump to another system (again the scout doesn't know they have left the system). Reinforcements arrive at the place the intruders were last seen, but by this time they are either half a dozen systems away farming more rats or they are hiding at a planet/moon somewhere in a nearby system or they have logged off. Unless PvPers manage to kill a target the moment they find it, or make it so the target can't warp away, they will never kill anything. All this will produce is PvPers complaining that it is even harder to find victims to kill, and alliances complaining that they have no control over "their" space, so they will go back to gate camping at chokepoints as these will be the only places they can find people. Drahcir OR, if the scout is smart and patient he gets a nice shiny covert ops frigate and goes looking. The npcers don't have the slightlest clue he's there until his re-inforcements jump in and say hello. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2005.02.16 06:24:00 - [69] I would like to see the map and local gone from EVE. At a minimum map available with skills and local available with mid slot module. Infinity Ziona
Drahcir Nasom	Posted - 2005.02.16 18:04:00 - [70] Originally by: Wild Rho OR, if the scout is smart and patient he gets a nice shiny covert ops frigate and goes looking. The npcers don't have the slightlest clue he's there until his re-inforcements jump in and say hello. I still can't believe you would get people to actually spend their game time flying round checking every roid belt in every system on the off chance that they might actually find someone who shouldn't be there. Imagine they flew to the first belt and there was a gang of intruders at the last belt on the list, and then the scout flies to the second, meanwhile the intruders decide they have finished with the last belt and fly to the first belt, the scout will have missed them completely and not even know it. I can think of much better things to do with time than perpetually search for a needle in a haystack. Drahcir
Kraven Kor	Posted - 2005.02.17 20:55:00 - [71] That is why I like the skill solution -- it still makes the information available on the map, but you have to have the skill, you have to be in range, and you have to spend the time to run the scan. Just turns free, instant intel into actual intel gathering "work."
Polaris Lumine	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Drahcir Nasom Originally by: Wild Rho OR, if the scout is smart and patient he gets a nice shiny covert ops frigate and goes looking. The npcers don't have the slightlest clue he's there until his re-inforcements jump in and say hello. I still can't believe you would get people to actually spend their game time flying round checking every roid belt in every system on the off chance that they might actually find someone who shouldn't be there. Imagine they flew to the first belt and there was a gang of intruders at the last belt on the list, and then the scout flies to the second, meanwhile the intruders decide they have finished with the last belt and fly to the first belt, the scout will have missed them completely and not even know it. I can think of much better things to do with time than perpetually search for a needle in a haystack. Drahcir Sorry but that's pirating. You're not supposed to get it all given to you on a plate. If you don't like spending your time actually hunting your prey then choose another profession. -- Polaris Lumine
Geldorf Drakar	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:27:00 - [73] Im going to say just one thing. Ive been playing for nearly two years and getting rid of the map and local are the ABSOLUTE WORST idea I have ever heard.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:30:00 - [74] Then again you're alliance people and would be expected to say something conservative like that. Convert Stations
MrPops	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:36:00 - [75] Everything in EVE takes a long time to do. Getting rid of the map would make it worse to get around. In other words, the more time it takes to do stuff the less I want to play. Leave the map alone and find yourself something else to ***** about and nerf. For as long as I've been playing, this idea ranks up there with the "get rid of the highways" brought to you by Cao Cao and Jash Illiam who I guess got tired of playing EVE. "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:40:00 - [76] Worse is just another word for interesting. Convert Stations
MrPops	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:43:00 - [77] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Then again you're alliance people and would be expected to say something conservative like that. This is not about being conservative, it's about gameplay and tedium. This game already ranks high in gameplay tedium, slowness, and time sinks. We need this game to be more fun and less about spending all your time getting somewhere. "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:50:00 - [78] Keeping it highly predictable will remedy this how? Convert Stations
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.02.17 22:54:00 - [79] Edited by: PaulAtreides on 17/02/2005 23:04:47 Originally by: Danton Marcellus I've never said I wanted a Cloak of Concord either, I only want the means to operate in 0.0. Whoever said we'd settle before we thought we could make a stand? You're assuming too much. If you can't survive in 0.0 because of the map, I don't believe you belong in 0.0 There are a lot of corps that operate in 0.0 space in direct violation to the alliance that 'hold' the space. These corps fight for there lives in 0.0 because that is what 0.0 space is all about. If you want to come to 0.0 and have the map hide your whearabouts because you don't want to fight... perhaps you should rethink your reasons for comeing to LAWLESS space in the first place. With Respect, PaulAtreides Want to work for me?
Quantum Ghost	Posted - 2005.02.17 23:03:00 - [80] Well this is the only direction that I would vote for.... 1. Any rated system have map as now (0.1 - 1.0) 2. 0.0 systems pilots in space is an average over 1 day 3. Local stays or is replaced with a HUD display showing the number of pilots in that system in real time. 4. Trans-system probes are released. -QG In Game - 'Shop@hdy' Web Site - www.hadean.org
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.17 23:09:00 - [81] We'd like a chance to avoid to fight everyone at once, not everyone ever again. Me personally would for example never want to see someone on the other side of the scope sporting Thundercats colors. I'd rather run, log and go wash my eyes with soap. Who lives 23/7 in 0.0 without being part of the clique? Do tell. Convert Stations
Phony v2	Posted - 2005.02.17 23:25:00 - [82] I agree with some posts. Even if the skill route is allowed it should never go past 5-10 jumps out. However you should be allowed to see the jumps and such from the day before to see what systems have an active market and so on... _______________________________________________ Yes, in the back, the retard with the dumb question?
MrPops	Posted - 2005.02.17 23:37:00 - [83] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Keeping it highly predictable will remedy this how? Lets not forget that this is all your opinion based on your experience of the game. You in no way represent the playerbase nor the sentiments of the majority. The solution you present here is not a balanced one since it gets rid of a game feature entirely, without proposing a well thought out alternative that adds to the gameplay and fun. Getting rid of something because YOU think it will make it more interesting is not a solid argument for anything. You better come up with something REALLY good. Why don't we ask CCP to vote on this issue (like we have before) so you can see how quickly this idea is killed. "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Ris Dnalor	Posted - 2005.02.17 23:56:00 - [84] burn the map -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
symmetry	Posted - 2005.02.18 15:54:00 - [85] My 2 pence:- Remove "pilots in space" on all non-empire space. Remove "ships destroyed in the last X hours" and "escape pods destroyed in the last X hours" and "number of pilots currently docked and active" and "pirate and police ships destroyed in the last 24 hours" for everyone except people with a very high security level. Remove "jumps in the last hour" for everyone except people with a medium or higher security level. Have the option to "subscribe" to the local chat channel or not, if you don't subscribe, you can't see who's on local and they can't see you. Give a delay of 1 minute to ending your subscription to local chat. If you jump during this delay time it resets to 1 minute.
Time Killer	Posted - 2005.02.18 16:17:00 - [86] Edited by: Time Killer on 18/02/2005 16:30:55 I like being able to look at a map and see where I am the the damn galaxy. I like being able to look at my route and get a feel for how the systems are arranged around each other. I like being able to see if I have to go through low sec space in an industrial. Christ not EVERYONE who plays this game is part of a big alliance in 0.0 who will have dedicated scouts or watchtower PoSs... Chuck pilots in space/docked/podkills/shipkills outside empire. Or how about making sec rating MEAN something and Concord only dishes out that info /in Empire/ to people with a good sec rating? But ffs leave the map alone as it is in Empire!
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.18 18:10:00 - [87] I have posted numerous threads with suggestions how to improve without the map as it is now, this thread is merely a bump to get it back into the eye of the devs. Everyone who is anyone with half a brain that has been playing the game for a long time ought to know of the benefits of killing the map. Skills have been mentioned as have percentage chance scanning & cloaking modules. I'm guessing you MrPops is all about predictability and crunching numbers, you by all means should stay on the inside and leave the gamble to be taken to me. Convert Stations
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.18 19:13:00 - [88] What I find hilarious is that, effectively, what Danton is proposing is EXACTLY how things are in empire at this time. Corp declares war on alliance, alliance in empire can hide in the blobs, so can the enemy. This is why most pvp corps are now moving in to empire to attack alliances - they can sneak up on them.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.02.18 19:17:00 - [89] It's a double edged sword really. System scanning would need some luvin' first IMHO. Mai's Idealog
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.18 19:57:00 - [90] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 18/02/2005 20:00:07 Edited by: Rod Blaine on 18/02/2005 19:58:18 Nuke the pilots in space map, keep local AND all other map features (gives some intell at least to discourage camping same spots for longer time). Add some pos mods that can give some info over a few jumps around it to someone thats at the CT. Please, no substitute info via agents of skills, we got enuff of that. Ah yes, and probes would need lubbin. Faster results plz, make covops use em cloaked too. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Badshah	Posted - 2005.02.18 20:04:00 - [91] Leave the map alone. As a matter of fact, fix the bugs and leave the rest of the game alone. Stop trying to 'balance' the game. I am tired of waking up only to wonder which of the laws of the Universe no longer apply. Talk about killing the reality factor. Here's the deal: Leave game mechanics alone from here out. We, the players, will compensate via our own choices and decisions. Capisce? Just me, Bad
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.18 20:11:00 - [92] Originally by: Badshah Leave the map alone. As a matter of fact, fix the bugs and leave the rest of the game alone. Stop trying to 'balance' the game. I am tired of waking up only to wonder which of the laws of the Universe no longer apply. Talk about killing the reality factor. Here's the deal: Leave game mechanics alone from here out. We, the players, will compensate via our own choices and decisions. Capisce? Sure you are playing Eve there buddy ? Eve is what is called an MMO, if it stagnates in game development (we are not talking some soddass agent content here), it dies. It cannot but change, and you can't but adapt. More complex = less predictable = more balancing needed, always, for ever. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Badshah	Posted - 2005.02.18 21:30:00 - [93] This is only the second MMO I've played, but I feel like I have a valid point. I did not mean that no new content should be added. I meant that certain things should be reliable, like gravity. You go to bed with two afterburners on your ship, works great. Wake up, and the ship is still configured but the 2nd AB no longer functions. Why!? This is the kind of thing I mean. If missiles are over-powered, maybe consider buying a missile-boat and training for it. We can compensate for the so-called imbalances in the game through our actions. Why in the Universe should physics change? Doesn't make sense. Sorry, it never will. What brought me to EVE was a player story, posted on these forums, which described his experience in the game. It was linked to the forum of the MMO I was playing at that time. That link cost ATITD a player. I dropped that account and switched to EVE. One bad thing in his story, however, is that when he tried to defend himself from an attacker, he could not because his particular weapon of choice, maybe cruise missiles, not sure, had been dealt a blow and he no longer had the ability to use them. He was unaware until his death came. he got podded. I am just using that experience as an example. So, I wish CCP would just fix bugs and add content as time allows. As for the natural laws of the game-universe- leave them alone! Just me, Bad
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.18 22:02:00 - [94] Well mmo's per definition change theri mechanics during their lifespan. they have to. Players always will find ways to do things that arent really in line with proper balance as its good for the game community as a whole. Aside from that, if you add new content, you often need to change the old content to fit the new in. Like adding tech levels. If tech3 was added now, again 10% stronger then tech2 for example, tech1 ships would be dead in a single volley from tech3 weapons. so what do you do ? You change the old content to fit the new one, you give ships more hp's to balance it a bit for player not yet ready for tech3 ships in this case. If you change old content, parts of that will become imbalanced because of the sheer complexity of the game and all the modules and calculations in it. You need to correct that too in order not to create a situation in which everyone does the same, acts the same and plays the same purely out of neccesity in order to be able to compete. without balancing you end up with a game in which in the end only one ship with one setup and one skillpath will be the answer if you ever want to compete. Sure thats pushing it, it's not gonna come that far within years of adding new content of course. But itdoesnt have to. Long beforethat players will start leaving because a game cannot amke true its promises of giving players choices rather then forcing them to all take similar roads to be able to compete on a certain level. Anyway, it can be annoying yes, but tbh, I havent seen any changes yet that havent been for the better. (recent ones not counting since they still need to settle in and maybe be worked out to the correct level by patching). _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Vodalus	Posted - 2005.02.18 22:28:00 - [95] Removing "pilots in space" would be the single greatest change for the betterment of the game that CCP could possibly make - too bad it's never gonna happen - they would rather do wacky stuff like EW changes and weapon nerfs. -------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game
Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.18 22:37:00 - [96] Originally by: Dianabolic What I find hilarious is that, effectively, what Danton is proposing is EXACTLY how things are in empire at this time. Corp declares war on alliance, alliance in empire can hide in the blobs, so can the enemy. This is why most pvp corps are now moving in to empire to attack alliances - they can sneak up on them. I agree with you Dianabolic, and what happens ? People blob at gates. Only once, while I was in SE, I could kill a CELEST because he was alone at a gate and I was travelling alone too. All other times, it was all about blobs, and it is not fun to jump into a system, see the overview full of reds, and know you are dead no matter what you do. If the map is removed (let's talk about 0.0 here), people will blob at gates, and you could remove chokepoints, new chokepoints will emerge. I don't know for other regions, but when I go to Deklein, I have to go through ROIR-Y and some other systems forming a corridor. Those systems will be the new chokepoints, so chokepoints are not that bad, at the moment, once you make it through, chances are you will travel in safety. I would like to see the blobs go, and, if I'm not mistaken, everybody would like them go. Blobs suck. But 'kill the map' doesn't seem the solution and will only lead to chaos and frustration. I don't even think the solution can come from CCP, it's human nature here: people group when they feel week and that leads to gankage (aka blobbing). CCP can't do anything to this, I'm afraid, only us can play fair.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.18 22:39:00 - [97] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 18/02/2005 22:43:01 Quote form oveur from Digi's thread elsewhere : Originally by: Oveur 1. PVP - Scanner needs work, do you consider the only thing that needs to be done is lessening scan times? - Map. We can dumb down pilots in space, but is that the solution? As you say, it's double edged. We tested a solution in Exodus where it was skill based range. Another would have a delayed (20 min) or averaged count (over 20 min) shown. My only question is, do you really think these two things would stop blobbing - or make it that much more interesting? There's been ample discussion over this remark in that thread and another in ships& mods already. I think that maybe we should ask for a test phase in 0.0 on sisi to see how we like 0.0 without pilots in space to start with. We'll have to imagine the rest of what we'd want outrselves for now. But it seems that getting it in testing on sisi might be a possibility just to look it over with some people. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.18 22:44:00 - [98] Sorja - yes, they blob up. Kind of. In empire, from the people I know who are actively engaged in empire wars, they obvioulsy pick off the weak (that is the price you pay for being solo) but they also have run straight in to ambush where they have been massively outnumbered. Instead of just looking at the map and logging off, or turning round, they've been duped right in to nice set piece attacks. Surely this is how it should be? It is a double edged sword, but I truely do believe that the game would revert to how we play it when the map is broken. We have one main fleet, lots of scouts and a few smaller hunter groups. If the scouts find a single target, the hunter groups kill it. If the hunter groups or scouts run in to a blob teh main fleet moves in. I know that we have had far more fun, and take far more losses, when the map has been this way than when it has not.
Lizardo	Posted - 2005.02.19 02:42:00 - [99] leave the map alone. works fine as it is.
Clarence Bodicker	Posted - 2005.02.19 07:16:00 - [100] If you're going to nuke the map, you have to nuke local chat as well. Every sod-headed miner and NPC'er in 0.0 has it maximized while the macro mine or chain spawn anyway. They see you jump into system and they'll all be lined up running full speed at their safespot, at which time any other pilot jumps into system off they go to Mr. Safespot (ofc they sit their for 5 minuites until they see 3 AU probes on scan, and then unplug their computer). Solution would be to release a system scanning module that would show tell you pilots and names in currents system. Nothing else, no ships, no direction...nothing...just the names of people in local w/ corp ticker (keep the purity of the scanner intact). Hell, just make it built into all ships, with a nice shiney button on the GUI. Problem solved. Easy as pie. Aggressive, vigilant players = advantage Lazy 0.0 carebares = disadvantage -------------------------------------------------- Criminal Connections Rank(3) SP: 76549/768000 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2005.02.19 08:27:00 - [101] either no map in 0.0 or delayed info... like 30 mins... however the most important thing to be removed is the local chat in 0.0! that being said I mean dont show the people in local as long as they dont talk... and somehow link it to the standing system where it shows all your corp, alliance, gangmates... and all other friendly corps and guys to which you have set a standing of +5 AND only if he has set his standing to +5 as well... and honestly im very much against the skill as well... i would hate to train a skill which just tells me the map info... very bad idea this is WAY too easy!!! make it with probes... and outposts... a probe is time based (20mins for the basic one, 40mins for the tech 1 and 60mins for a tech 2 probe) which shows you ALL people in the local chat... even more the map will tell you all the info you have currently for that system you deployed it in... even more the information you get has to be linked to other pilots as well... so again apply the rules above... which give your corp, alliance, gangmates and friendly corps and guys to who you and them set a standing of +5 the ability to see the local chat as well as the map information... outposts: basic observer array: scan range: current system tech 1 observer array: scan range: 1 system (the one where it is deployed and all systems around that one...) tech 2 observer array: scan range: 2 systems (the one where it is deployed and 2 systems around that one...) it shows you the local chat with all pilots in there and gives you accurate map information. the observer array needs a control tower... but with smaller control towers coming soon you have a perfect little outpost which you can deploy in key systems... and again link it to all corp, alliance, gangmates and friendly corps and players to which either of you have set a standing of +5. as a side note system scanning will be beefed up due to this changes since sneaking up to your foe is finally possible... cuz atm NONE is dumb enough to be found at a safespot since he just needs to look at the local chat. none the less system scanning should be shortened in time as well... Greetings Grim
MrPops	Posted - 2005.02.19 09:49:00 - [102] Quote: I have posted numerous threads with suggestions how to improve without the map as it is now, this thread is merely a bump to get it back into the eye of the devs. And it will continue to be ignored, just like it was ignored in the past. If you don't want it, don't use it. If you want to have a real discussion, bring fresh, new, and balanced ideas. If your solution is to slap some skill to the map, you are going to fight an uphill battle. Quote: Everyone who is anyone with half a brain that has been playing the game for a long time ought to know of the benefits of killing the map. Who is everyone who is anyone? This is classic gradeschool elitist group mentallity. My club is cooler than yours and we know better so join us or you are lame. I've been playing this game since before all you n00bs came around thinking you know better than anyone else and I'm certainly of the camp that does not agree with your ideas. So please get off your high horse. Your idea is not new. This discussion is so 2003 and it was shot down back then. Quote: I'm guessing you MrPops is all about predictability and crunching numbers, you by all means should stay on the inside and leave the gamble to be taken to me. You are guessing wrong my friend, you have no idea who I am but I've been around long enough to watch people with your attitude fade away. Arrogance didn't get Jash Illiam anywhere and he was certainly a better brain than you are. "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.19 09:53:00 - [103] tbh you are both being asses. A vote thread without arguments is not going to get anything done. If you want a change really bad and have good arguments but the change is shot down, try again later. atm the map discussion is pretty hot again thanks to Digital Communists thread in ships&modules. That piece of art, ir ccp listens, will be doing more for Eve then any other written word on these forums ever. So if you want to argue pilots in space availiability, argue it. Don't just go and do the yes/no thing for 50 pages and be ignored. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
MrPops	Posted - 2005.02.19 09:56:00 - [104] Originally by: Rod Blaine tbh you are both being asses. A vote thread without arguments is not going to get anything done. If you want a change really bad and have good arguments but the change is shot down, try again later. atm the map discussion is pretty hot again thanks to Digital Communists thread in ships&modules. That piece of art, ir ccp listens, will be doing more for Eve then any other written word on these forums ever. So if you want to argue pilots in space availiability, argue it. Don't just go and do the yes/no thing for 50 pages and be ignored. Agreed "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.19 23:26:00 - [105] Actually Jash was in your corner about the map, then I guess he realized it was just too bothersome working against the grain and quit. He did however sell me on instajumps before he left, which I thought lame and didn't use for the first 8 months or so. I'm still here so who are these people with my attitude? Everyone I've talked to about the map is blown away by how much is given away in terms of gameplay by map visibility, am I psychic as to seek out likeminded people and put suggestions in their heads about the downside of having an omniscent scout a nanosecond away? The rest of the people on this thread wanting the map gone are not associates of mine and most likely never will be. Most if not all will shoot us on sight as it's what they do. They too see the benefits of adding risk for a rewarding gaming experience and not just certainty if you're not backed by the largest number of people and quite possibly the largest wallet. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.22 21:39:00 - [106] It's about that day again, lost a couple of members 'cause small corporations can't do **** in this game without getting hammered. Don't front and say you do and are all that and a bucket of arkonor, you're someones little sweet thing or you're not moving much in 0.0. Convert Stations
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.02.22 22:06:00 - [107] delete the map
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.02.22 22:23:00 - [108] From what I been reading it seems that alot of alliance players are scared that they may lose thier claim on space if the map gets changed. Well, good. You should be scared. In real life countries patrol thier borders to keep intruders out and we should do the same in EVE. If you have a corp with a large number of memeber then you should indeed have someone willing to scout your space out. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
Godson DP	Posted - 2005.02.22 22:49:00 - [109] How the hell did civilization come about with out maps... we need the map... and this is the future, it only makes sense that the map is going to be advanced. The only thing I can see being changed is maybe 0.0 should only show up... if you have been there or if someone gives you the path to it, and maybe the sectors adjacent to it can also show up on the map. That way, if any new sectors are realized into the game, you will have to have visited the sector or an adjacent one to have it show up on your map. Think about it... if EVE were real... the government would broadcast the locations and details of the sectors they occupy. So 0.0... would have to be explored. ...maybe then people could start selling map data... -<(Godson)>-
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.02.22 23:01:00 - [110] Originally by: Godson DP How the hell did civilization come about with out maps... we need the map... and this is the future, it only makes sense that the map is going to be advanced. The only thing I can see being changed is maybe 0.0 should only show up... if you have been there or if someone gives you the path to it, and maybe the sectors adjacent to it can also show up on the map. That way, if any new sectors are realized into the game, you will have to have visited the sector or an adjacent one to have it show up on your map. Think about it... if EVE were real... the government would broadcast the locations and details of the sectors they occupy. So 0.0... would have to be explored. ...maybe then people could start selling map data... -<(Godson)>- I thought about that as well. IIRC, one of the professions was exploring. I really like your idea of selling maps. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
uh no	Posted - 2005.02.22 23:13:00 - [111] How about ships still show on map, EXCEPT Covert Ops ships? There for giving them a more viable role in game. What do you think?
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.02.22 23:15:00 - [112] Originally by: Danton Marcellus We'd like a chance to avoid to fight everyone at once, not everyone ever again. Me personally would for example never want to see someone on the other side of the scope sporting Thundercats colors. I'd rather run, log and go wash my eyes with soap. Who lives 23/7 in 0.0 without being part of the clique? Do tell. While I was in Deklein: 1. Going Limp 2. Jokers Corp 3. Death Row 4. Nemesis. 5. Armed War Monkies 6. etc. etc. etc. In Stain there are just as many, if not more corps out here that we fight day in and day out. Click my sig for more details. The point I am trying to make is this: Under the current machanics (which work fine imo.), 0.0 space is about the fight for survival. If you want to live out here... you have to fight for it. As many corps do. You honestly can't expect to come to 0.0 space and be ignored by it's holding alliance/corp. Want to work for me?
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.02.22 23:22:00 - [113] Originally by: PaulAtreides Originally by: Danton Marcellus We'd like a chance to avoid to fight everyone at once, not everyone ever again. Me personally would for example never want to see someone on the other side of the scope sporting Thundercats colors. I'd rather run, log and go wash my eyes with soap. Who lives 23/7 in 0.0 without being part of the clique? Do tell. While I was in Deklein: 1. Going Limp 2. Jokers Corp 3. Death Row 4. Nemesis. 5. Armed War Monkies 6. etc. etc. etc. In Stain there are just as many, if not more corps out here that we fight day in and day out. Click my sig for more details. The point I am trying to make is this: Under the current machanics (which work fine imo.), 0.0 space is about the fight for survival. If you want to live out here... you have to fight for it. As many corps do. You honestly can't expect to come to 0.0 space and be ignored by it's holding alliance/corp. Thats great and all but that is not the point. One should be able to enter 0.0 space without being know. That is the whole point of 0.0. If whomever is controlling that space is not on top thier game then they risk losing that space. As of right now, such incursons are not possible due to local. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
nether void	Posted - 2005.02.23 15:08:00 - [114] I agree the map gives too much information. I don't agree that the map should just be gone. Maps will tell you what geography (or astrography or whatever) is there, but it should not tell you exactly what's happening there. That's the job of a scanner, probe, or whatever you want to put there. But I think that might not go far enough. At first, I was not a proponent of removing local, but I think it would be a good idea to remove it due to chokes. It makes no difference if you remove the info from the map if you get jumped every time you try and warp through the choke due to local. Another thing I agree with is that if a corp makes a claim to space, they should have to patrol that space. Patroling one or two chokes and in so claiming a hundred or more systems is a joke. In other games like this I've played, the most intel you could get were from scouts. And yes they scouted just about all the time because some people LIKE to scout all the time. It's their thing. It worked pretty well, but not so good that the enemy could never surprise us. That's what made the game fun. You just never knew, and so you always kept your eyes peeled. --------------------------- nether void - since '97
Estios	Posted - 2005.02.23 15:43:00 - [115] KILL LOCAL UBER KNOW ALL SUPER RETARD GHEY CHANNEL BEFORE MESSING WITH MAP !!!! So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
hitech redneck	Posted - 2005.02.23 17:49:00 - [116] nope leave map as is.
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.02.23 18:02:00 - [117] Originally by: Roy Focker One should be able to enter 0.0 space without being know. That is the whole point of 0.0. No... that is not the point of 0.0 Originally by: Roy Focker If whomever is controlling that space is not on top thier game then they risk losing that space. As of right now, such incursons are not possible due to local. Think of local, as our surveilance camera's.... besides, I doubt you have even tried coming into 0.0 space yet if this is your viewpoint. Chat to a player called 'meowcat' next time you are online... ask him what he did in his first few weeks playing eve. Want to work for me?
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.23 19:48:00 - [118] And what is meowcat now? Just another alliance peon, nothing personal man but using you as an example of smalltime operations in monitored space is just so flawed it ain't even funny. Convert Stations
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.02.23 21:02:00 - [119] Originally by: Danton Marcellus And what is meowcat now? Just another alliance peon meowcat, in case you did not know was a newbie (and i mean that in the coolest sense of the word - je is a stellar guy), who gathered a lot of other newbies and all of them ventured into 0.0 space for extended periods of time. They knew nobody in the areas they went into, nor did they 'peonate' (yes I just invented that word) for any alliance or corporation. His operations were well recieved and highly successful, and he finialy accepted an offer to join a corporation with 0.0 operations, because he liked the corp (Millenium). Originally by: Danton Marcellus nothing personal man but using you as an example of smalltime operations in monitored space is just so flawed it ain't even funny. Okay... this thread is honestly rediculous. 1st. A few months ago before shiva/exodus/whateveryouwanttocallit, there actually was a vote to kill the map in 0.0 and to kill local channel. The vote was split 50%/50%, most of the people who knew 0.0 voted for the map/local to stay (yes I know this is a generalisation - but when speaking about masses that is what one tends to do), and everyone what operated mainly in empire with little to no 0.0 experiance voted for the them to be nurfed (obviously). In the end it was decided for nothing to change. 2nd. I'm not using myself as an example of "smalltime" 0.0 operation. Personaly (with the help of some friends), I helped form one of the alliances that lasted for over a year before it collapsed. Our alliance had around 2400 members at its prime. How did it begin? Very very small... infact, it started with 4 people with a common interest. What am I trying to get at with all this, and how it is relevent to the thread in general? My advise to you is this: If you want to operate in 0.0 space... just do it! Actually fly to 0.0 and see for yourself that the map does not really make any difference (unless you fly in a blob of 20+ ships). Set up operations in a small out of the way system with a POS if you want and do your own thing. Lots of corps are already doing just that in Deklein. With Respect, Want to work for me?
Falbala	Posted - 2005.02.23 21:36:00 - [120] Originally by: Jorlin - removing the map won't make me leave empire. - removing the highways won't make me leave empire. - removing the ice from highsec won't make me leave empire. - removing agents from highsec won't make me leave empire. - removing all ore won't make me leave empire. - removing all NPC pirates won't make me leave empire. but - too many of the above combined would make me leave...the game and noone would get my stuff then lol, for a full set of implants BPO i leave empire whenever you want^^. About the map, yes remove the stats, but leave the stations facilitiexs info. Or make the stats monthly, it will give you a rough idea if a system is dangerous but won't tell you if someone is camping the gate now.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.02.23 23:49:00 - [121] Yes of course the map makes a difference, why else would the alliance people be so keen on having it left in? Don't patronize me with such utter garbage. The people of 0.0, alliance people voted to keep it in to protect their ****. Some of them have since come to realize that by doing this it only made their game more of a bore as fewer cared to venture to 0.0 due to the predictability of the scenario that would unfold. I've been out there and had my operations shut down by pilots who only ventured out to my system to see what that shining beacon was in their claimed space. If you want to play the waiting game docked in stations till the larger alliance force logs off then fine by me but my people isn't into that sort of 'success'. Convert Stations
Vodalus	Posted - 2005.02.24 00:23:00 - [122] The voting stuff is funny - I didn't realize this was a democracy. CCP needs to grow a pair and make some changes for the betterment of the game instead of catering to whiners or whoever it is that they cater to. I don't think we should kill the map, but pilots in space and anything else that provides instant information on occupied systems should go. -------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game
Stetu	Posted - 2005.02.24 02:11:00 - [123] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: theRaptor Right. So you dont live in 0.0 and think you have some idea about how it works? I live in 0.0 and the map is what protects me from the "fraghags". People who just like to randomly gank will (OMG) just move around randomly ganking. 0.0 space has very limted routes (even once past the "chokes") so it would be trivial to setup camps out in deep 0.0 with no map to warn people. Raptor, with respect, do you know how we find our kills? Do you know where 90% of our intel comes from, when it is working? The map. We see a 3 or 4 man blob in a system, we just send scouts straight there, no hassle, see what's up. Without the map do you think we'd bring our entire fleet 40 jumps without first sending a scout? How many scouts might we have? Christ, the map makes ganking people EASY - yet those of us who rely on it so much are one of the most vocal groups that want rid of the damn thing - it gives us far too much information. GET THIS MAN A BEER AND SOMETHING TO SIT ON HES GOOD IN MY BOOK! ----------------------
Godson DP	Posted - 2005.03.02 19:08:00 - [124] SOooo... no one thinks that getting rid of the map will make the game harder to play, and lessen the occurance and the size of space battles? I'm pretty sure that if they do it, lots of you are going to change your minds. I like my idea, some of the info in the maps should only come with either skill... or purchase from others who have the info. -<(Godson)>-
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.02 19:13:00 - [125] Originally by: Godson DP SOooo... no one thinks that getting rid of the map will make the game harder to play, and lessen the occurance and the size of space battles? I'm pretty sure that if they do it, lots of you are going to change your minds. I like my idea, some of the info in the maps should only come with either skill... or purchase from others who have the info. -<(Godson)>- No, training up a skills is too easy, purchasing info as well. It would end up with everyone important having the info again, except for the solo people and small groups that are exactly the people we want to see out here. Removing pilots in space (but not local) in 0.0 would not decrease pvp fights at all. It would change them yes, but even-sides fleetbattles are far in between now anyway. Let's make things more volatile, more interesting and more exciting out here. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Chavok	Posted - 2005.03.02 21:35:00 - [126] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Godson DP SOooo... no one thinks that getting rid of the map will make the game harder to play, and lessen the occurance and the size of space battles? I'm pretty sure that if they do it, lots of you are going to change your minds. I like my idea, some of the info in the maps should only come with either skill... or purchase from others who have the info. -<(Godson)>- No, training up a skills is too easy, purchasing info as well. It would end up with everyone important having the info again, except for the solo people and small groups that are exactly the people we want to see out here. Removing pilots in space (but not local) in 0.0 would not decrease pvp fights at all. It would change them yes, but even-sides fleetbattles are far in between now anyway. Let's make things more volatile, more interesting and more exciting out here. If Eve was a FPS, the map would have no purpose, but guess what....it is NOT a fps game... Those that want the map changes to increase the flow of noobs to their guns, won't get it. Those that think it will not increase the PVP/ganking/griefing (sepperate issues, all deal with ships popping) are smoking something and not sharing... Those that use lame excuses, taunts and flames towards alliances and such, need to grow a pair, adapt to the game, or leave. Now for those that want to make changes that would help the whole game, great, but CCP should not and CAN NOT cater to either carebear or the griefers. If they do, Eve takes the fast lane to the dumpster. Map is there to check for hostile areas. It also has OTHER purposes (use it and figure it out). If a few gankerwannabees want the eve playbase to have no idea if going into the system nextdoor is suicide, then they just want an easy ticket to griefing...and need to quit eve in favor of a FPS game (or visit the headshrink more often).
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.03.02 22:45:00 - [127] Originally by: Chavok If Eve was a FPS, the map would have no purpose, but guess what....it is NOT a fps game... Those that want the map changes to increase the flow of noobs to their guns, won't get it. Those that think it will not increase the PVP/ganking/griefing (sepperate issues, all deal with ships popping) are smoking something and not sharing... Those that use lame excuses, taunts and flames towards alliances and such, need to grow a pair, adapt to the game, or leave. Now for those that want to make changes that would help the whole game, great, but CCP should not and CAN NOT cater to either carebear or the griefers. If they do, Eve takes the fast lane to the dumpster. Map is there to check for hostile areas. It also has OTHER purposes (use it and figure it out). If a few gankerwannabees want the eve playbase to have no idea if going into the system nextdoor is suicide, then they just want an easy ticket to griefing...and need to quit eve in favor of a FPS game (or visit the headshrink more often). Do you actually do PvP? Live in 0.0? Have ANY idea what we're actually talking about? You see, Danton does none of those. I do all of them. We both want this change. WTS: Clue.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.03.03 11:31:00 - [128] Kill the map! Kill local! Get special probes if you want to know who's in local. Yes the map helps getting 0.0 kills, but all people in 0.0 know that. BUT if the map is killed, they will be more willing to form larger groups because they won't lit up like a lightbulb on the map anymore.
Ysolde Xen	Posted - 2005.03.03 11:39:00 - [129] No. Leave the Map and Local as they are in Empire. Out in 0.0 is another story entirely: keep a map but perhaps eliminate the pilots in space/other similar stat. Maybe people with standings high enough with the NPC faction who claim the 0.0 they're in can get that info though - sort of buddyreports?
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.03.03 13:33:00 - [130] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 03/03/2005 13:34:38 Burn Danton Marcellus! The FACT of the matter is that 0.0 combat grinds to a halt when the map's broken. I've BEEN there. The gate gankers will love no map. The rest of us say again - don't NERF, ADD. If people want to hide, make them mount modules and such TO hide. Detecting them should then cost a considerable amount MORE in skills and modules than it takes to hide, sure, but put the initial layout on the people wanting to hide in the first place. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Chavok	Posted - 2005.03.03 14:29:00 - [131] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Chavok If Eve was a FPS, the map would have no purpose, but guess what....it is NOT a fps game... Those that want the map changes to increase the flow of noobs to their guns, won't get it. Those that think it will not increase the PVP/ganking/griefing (sepperate issues, all deal with ships popping) are smoking something and not sharing... Those that use lame excuses, taunts and flames towards alliances and such, need to grow a pair, adapt to the game, or leave. Now for those that want to make changes that would help the whole game, great, but CCP should not and CAN NOT cater to either carebear or the griefers. If they do, Eve takes the fast lane to the dumpster. Map is there to check for hostile areas. It also has OTHER purposes (use it and figure it out). If a few gankerwannabees want the eve playbase to have no idea if going into the system nextdoor is suicide, then they just want an easy ticket to griefing...and need to quit eve in favor of a FPS game (or visit the headshrink more often). Do you actually do PvP? Live in 0.0? Have ANY idea what we're actually talking about? You see, Danton does none of those. I do all of them. We both want this change. WTS: Clue. yes I do yes I not only have a clue, but can see you have none. If one doesn't agree with you, your only retort is to insult and troll?? Remove the map, and you set the stage for a gankfest. There are more players that use the map to evade trouble (as CCP intended) then those whining about it being to hard to gank... ...Camping a gate, no map, noob after noob keeps flying in to be griefed...(see why the map is there yet???) short sited and selfish reasoning do not make you right...
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.03.03 15:04:00 - [132] Actually with the proposed changes the devs are going to implement in regards to layout of low sec ganking would become alot less frequent. A group can form a gank squad and camp a system all they want. Since there will be a great many more locations to enter they will get far far fewer kills and not be able to effectivly block the route. The only other solution is to then reduce the size of the blockade fleets and spread them out more. They'll also need to take people who would have otherwise have been in the gank squad and assign them roles such as scouts and smaller faster "kill" packs that would hunt down the ships that slip through the blockades. Alliances would also need to assign some proper forces for defending ops within empire space to ensure anything that has got through can't do some damage. All in all removing 0.0 show pilots and local will reduce ganking becase pilots will have to be assigned to more roles to ensure security and gather intel. This also works both ways for the attacker to ensure they don't get ambush themselves while enroute and so on. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Fredbob	Posted - 2005.03.03 15:37:00 - [133] Personally I'd say remove the "active players" filters for any 0.0 systems, leave Empire space as is. Big alliances not knowing exactly how many people are in each of "their" syetms may encourage people to ninja-mine etc, or make a quick rat hunt or two, provided they can find a way through gates (which is being worked on). 0.0 alliance players themselves see the information as a downside, it removes the fun of scouting/sneaking through systems for both parties. In RP terms, such info probably wouldn't be available for deep space systems, at least not up to date.. I'd say remove "number of pilots in space" and "number of pilots docked and active" for all 0.0 sytems, and set local chat in those systems to the "not listed til they speak" mode. They way empire peeps can sneak in for some fun, and alliance peeps can properly patrol, and attack each other without seeing blobs everywhere slowly making it's way across the map like a "we're coming" flag . I'm looking at the map ingame now, with the "players in space" filter, and I see about 70%~90% of the 0.0 are completely and utterly empty, bit of a waste eh? Granted it's not peak time ^^, but part of it may or may not be down to the fact that anyone entering such systems would be seen on the map and popped within half an hour.. Whether this thread is read by those who make the big decisions or not, the above is my 2 isk. ___________ ~Fredbob~
Minnky	Posted - 2005.03.03 15:40:00 - [134] Just get rid of the active memebers and recent jumps ... and I love the map ...:O) This information shouldn'e be on hand ... it should be manual reconasance ... which lets face it, is the biggest part of PVP in real life ... don't get rid of it!
Shin Ra	Posted - 2005.03.03 15:50:00 - [135] The map is fine the way it is. The only way it can be improved is if it has an excat time it was lat updated. ----------------------------------------- Heinky> Dont mix eve with rl it can be bad for your health

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.