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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.06.01 12:16:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Dr Fighter solution: perhaps make slow ships' tanks more tanker and the speedyer ones even less?
You've got to be kidding. EVE already is way too overtanked. Have you ever chewed through abaddon or maelstrom with your typical solo ship? ---
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?
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Van Steiza
Battlestars S E D I T I O N
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Posted - 2011.06.01 12:20:00 -
[122]
Exactly if you made my Vindicator any more tanked nothing would kill it lmao.
Gosh guys read my post.
Im an actual solo Bhaalgorn pilot mostly and I know what its like.
Plust ive had experiance fighting machs with a host of ships as i said in my post.
There SO EASY to kill but people dont want to put in any effort they just want to be able to tackle them and hold them down easy and kill them.
Good luck with that everything in eve is not beige and the same ships have there advantages and there advantages are countered by other ships with different advantages.
Machariels are so easy to tackle and kill your only problem is that the majority of machariels do not fly solo and if your a solo pilot like me who likes to solo in his bhaalgorn you may get a minute or 2 before his gang arrives in which every time ive fought a machariel theyve gone down like a sack of poo as i said in my previous post but as always i end up jammed by support and having to disengage. ----------------------------------------------- Stop removing my Sig its fine!!!! Nerf Moderaters. |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2011.06.01 12:21:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
Originally by: Dr Fighter solution: perhaps make slow ships' tanks more tanker and the speedyer ones even less?
You've got to be kidding. EVE already is way too overtanked. Have you ever chewed through abaddon or maelstrom with your typical solo ship?
yes i own a mach now and have done for many years to pvp with.
The problem isnt that it goes 1v1 with other bs, thats plain silly, its mostly BCs and down getting WTF pwned by a ship that can get into the best place for deploying its dps effectivly, quickly. What i meant was that whatever is the next fastest ship, will take its place, so it might as well be one that costs a bil and is soft as puppy poo.
Even a pimped mach with boosts etc is not tougher than any single T2 fit bs (a mael will out tank a mach all day) its all about the speed, but you cant have a mach going slower than a pest or phoon!
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.01 12:21:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 01/06/2011 12:22:24
Originally by: Dr Fighter the fastest ship will AWAYS be the best for outnumbered fights no matter the cost, whatever is fastest after the next nerf will be next to BE nerfed.
Speed therefore range control is HUGLY important in a heavy stratagy game like this with vastly changing numbers, and therefore will always be hugely desirable.
Indeed. Too many people - including CCP, it seems - underestimate the value of mobility, particularly when combined with DPS projection.
There's nothing wrong with a really fast BS in itself. The problem comes when it also has great agility, good EHP and great damage and a good range. It's the same combination of powers that the Dramiel has, and everyone knows that the Dramiel is overpowered. The Mach and Cyna are overpowered too, because they have the same combination of strengths - it's just that the difference between Mach/Cyna and their competitors is slightly less than between Dramiel et al.
An interesting thought - if the Mach's agility was cut to "normal" levels, and it used blasters with no range/falloff bonuses, it would probably be well balanced. It would still be as fast as ever, but to apply meaningful DPS it would have to go into blaster - and hence web - range, meaning that it would have to commit to a fight. But its high speed would allow it to choose whether to commit in the first place.
But isn't this just the Minmatar-Gallente problem in microcosm? One race with fast ships and good damage projection, and another race with poor damage projection and unable to get into range to apply it because they're too slow. Blasters and ACs are simply the wrong way round.
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2011.06.01 13:42:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Gypsio III But isn't this just the Minmatar-Gallente problem in microcosm? One race with fast ships and good damage projection, and another race with poor damage projection and unable to get into range to apply it because they're too slow. Blasters and ACs are simply the wrong way round.
ACs have very mediocre damage projection - they're outdone by the corresponding missiles and lasers pretty much everywhere outside scram range. A shieldcane is significantly outdamaged by a drake or a nano Harbinger at 20 km (and is pretty awful at 30, where the other two are still dealing more or less their full DPS); the zealot craps all over the vaga's dps output at kiting ranges, and even the mach can't hold a candle to a pulsepoc in terms of applying long-range dps with 'short range' guns (can't think of any laser BS with a range bonus to match the mach's bonus to falloff). Blasters being underwhelming does not make projectiles (or the platforms that use them) OP.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.01 13:46:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Tsubutai
Originally by: Gypsio III But isn't this just the Minmatar-Gallente problem in microcosm? One race with fast ships and good damage projection, and another race with poor damage projection and unable to get into range to apply it because they're too slow. Blasters and ACs are simply the wrong way round.
ACs have very mediocre damage projection - they're outdone by the corresponding missiles and lasers pretty much everywhere outside scram range. A shieldcane is significantly outdamaged by a drake or a nano Harbinger at 20 km (and is pretty awful at 30, where the other two are still dealing more or less their full DPS); the zealot craps all over the vaga's dps output at kiting ranges, and even the mach can't hold a candle to a pulsepoc in terms of applying long-range dps with 'short range' guns (can't think of any laser BS with a range bonus to match the mach's bonus to falloff). Blasters being underwhelming does not make projectiles (or the platforms that use them) OP.
2 of said ac boats will pwn one of your pulse boat if they stick around, and vice versa. The difference is the ac boats can gtfo when the tide turns.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.01 14:42:00 -
[127]
Quote: A Machariel can engage ANY ship besides a Bhaalgorn,
A mach is a pirate faction BS. It cant inherently beat a RS, and it cant inherently beat a blaaghorn. There's only 5 pirate battleships. Its already on par with it's counterparts when you look at it in its class. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.06.01 14:44:00 -
[128]
Then thats your own definition of overpowered.
To me, the only overpowered ship is a ship that pwns in blobs. Because no single strategy beats blobs, except blobbing.
That means to me overpowered is -abaddon -aeon -rap and hugs -araz and lachs -legion
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2011.06.01 14:48:00 -
[129]
ITT, noobs whining because they have never flown a Machariel and don't know what it's weaknesses are.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:37:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Van Steiza Exactly if you made my Vindicator any more tanked nothing would kill it lmao.
Gosh guys read my post.
Im an actual solo Bhaalgorn pilot mostly and I know what its like.
Plust ive had experiance fighting machs with a host of ships as i said in my post.
There SO EASY to kill but people dont want to put in any effort they just want to be able to tackle them and hold them down easy and kill them.
Good luck with that everything in eve is not beige and the same ships have there advantages and there advantages are countered by other ships with different advantages.
Machariels are so easy to tackle and kill your only problem is that the majority of machariels do not fly solo and if your a solo pilot like me who likes to solo in his bhaalgorn you may get a minute or 2 before his gang arrives in which every time ive fought a machariel theyve gone down like a sack of poo as i said in my previous post but as always i end up jammed by support and having to disengage.
I like this guy.
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sentinel22uk
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:42:00 -
[131]
at least u know if u kill a mach its not gonna be t2 fit <3
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.06.01 16:40:00 -
[132]
What is this stuff about comparing a Machariel and a Bhaalgorn in combat?
A ship is overpowered if across a wide selection of common scenarios the ship would see it outperforms everything else with no trade offs. The Machariel requires a scout. The Machariel might be able to survive jumping into a hostile fleet. The Machariel has damage projection out to 100 KM with AC and further with Arties. The Machariel can be shield or armor tanked. The Machariel when in combat and local spikes can probably run away because it engages far outside of web/scram ranges and can control the engagement rage against most things. The Machariel in a fleet fight gone bad can probably warp out to the alignment point because it was likely very far off the enemy. The Machariel solo (with a scout or alt) can take on most enemies but has to worry about fast tackle and a nearby blob.
Now for comparison The Bhaalgorn requires a scout. The Bhaalgorn will not survive jumping into a hostile fleet. The Bhaalgorn has damage projection out to 50-60KM ? then switches to beam lasers. The Bhaalgorn can be armor tanked but has one midslot for a shield tank. Its possible to shield tank a Bhaalgorn but it might not be a good idea. The Bhaalgorn when in combat and local spikes had better hope that its 3 neuts cap out all enemies so it can warp. Its not unreasonable to hope this happens but its not a sure thing either and its going to be butt clenching for the Bhaalgorn. The Bhaalgorn in a fleet fight gone bad is going to be tackled to **** and its going to die if it cant deagress/jump gate The Bhaalgorn solo (with a scout or alt) can take on most enemies (including a Machariel dumb enough to fight it within 50km) but has to worry about heavy tackle and a nearby blob.
I see lots more Machariels than Bhaalgorns. I beleive the Machariel preforms better across more situations. Angel ships' combination of speed and damage projection is probably too much. CCP will get atound to Angels sometime. :CCP:
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.06.01 16:58:00 -
[133]
You forgot all the nice things about the Bhaalgorn - like being absolutely pro at taking down capitals. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2011.06.01 17:27:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita What is this stuff about comparing a Machariel and a Bhaalgorn in combat?
A ship is overpowered if across a wide selection of common scenarios the ship would see it outperforms everything else with no trade offs. The Machariel requires a scout. The Machariel might be able to survive jumping into a hostile fleet. The Machariel has damage projection out to 100 KM with AC and further with Arties. The Machariel can be shield or armor tanked. The Machariel when in combat and local spikes can probably run away because it engages far outside of web/scram ranges and can control the engagement rage against most things. The Machariel in a fleet fight gone bad can probably warp out to the alignment point because it was likely very far off the enemy. The Machariel solo (with a scout or alt) can take on most enemies but has to worry about fast tackle and a nearby blob.
Now for comparison The Bhaalgorn requires a scout. The Bhaalgorn will not survive jumping into a hostile fleet. The Bhaalgorn has damage projection out to 50-60KM ? then switches to beam lasers. The Bhaalgorn can be armor tanked but has one midslot for a shield tank. Its possible to shield tank a Bhaalgorn but it might not be a good idea. The Bhaalgorn when in combat and local spikes had better hope that its 3 neuts cap out all enemies so it can warp. Its not unreasonable to hope this happens but its not a sure thing either and its going to be butt clenching for the Bhaalgorn. The Bhaalgorn in a fleet fight gone bad is going to be tackled to **** and its going to die if it cant deagress/jump gate The Bhaalgorn solo (with a scout or alt) can take on most enemies (including a Machariel dumb enough to fight it within 50km) but has to worry about heavy tackle and a nearby blob.
I see lots more Machariels than Bhaalgorns. I beleive the Machariel preforms better across more situations. Angel ships' combination of speed and damage projection is probably too much. CCP will get atound to Angels sometime. :CCP:
What are you even doing with this post? The only part of it relevant to the discussion is this sentence. The Bhaalgorn solo (with a scout or alt) can take on most enemies (including a Machariel dumb enough to fight it within 50km) but has to worry about heavy tackle and a nearby blob.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2011.06.01 18:52:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Asuka Smith You guys arguing that a Bhaalgorn is a good counter are using the exact same specious argument that was used to defend nanos as a whole back when they did the nano nerf.
People would say "well all you need is a rapier, so it's balanced", but that argument was specious because a nanogang could engage any target BUT a rapier, and could only be effectively engaged by a Rapier. That isn't balance.
A Machariel can engage ANY ship besides a Bhaalgorn, they go faster than most armor tanked HACs or hell most HACs in general, they can go around and stir up hell and completely demolish basically every single gang, and the only way to effectively counter them is to have a Bhaalgorn. Here is a thought, why would I be within web range of a Bhaalgorn? Why wouldn't I just avoid fighting any gang that has Bhaalgorn support? (I'm faster than their gang and their Bhaalgorn so unless I'm on grid in range of their bhaalgorn already it isn't going to kill me).
The Angel line is a throwback to the nano days and is basically totally OP.
You misunderstand my argument, in the OP, he describes having trouble with two Machariels, I was just arguing that the Bhaalgorn is a good counter for them in that situation. Since then he has added there being cynos and recons there as well so it doesn't work as an argument now, but the problem in that situation is less the two Machariels and more the Supers that get cyno'd in.
-------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! |
Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.06.01 20:32:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Dizeezer Velar ITT, noobs whining because they have never flown a Machariel and don't know what it's weaknesses are.
This.
ITT - a lot of really butt hurt PVP noobs who are waaaa waaaaa about a Mach managing to escape their attempt to kill it, because they only bought one web.
The hull is near ONE BILLION ISK for a reason. You think it should be comparable to what.. T1 battleships? Marauders? Other pirate battleships? This, as well as the fact that just about every single one flown has faction **** coming out of it's ears to make its very measly tank worth something.
The first is a joke. The second.. well no ****. As for the other pirate battleships, it comes out on top in a few scenarios, falls short in others.
The 'angel ship whine' really is ****ing pathetic. A Dramiel is overpowered? How is something that costs THREE HUNDRED TIMES more than a T1 frig 'overpowered' in it's ability to kill them? Most Mach fits are anywhere from 1.1 to 1.5billion ISK in a PVP configuration. That's over TEN T1 battleship hulls. Same applies.
I've used a Mach very extensively and will, nearly always, use a Mael instead as it is a lot more cost effective.
'Balance' is not about everything being the same, kids. It's about everything having a proportional answer. A T1 frig with dual webs, costing <1 mil ISK will slow the ship down to <250m/s with a sig radius of ~2km. Or 40m/s and ~380 with no MWD lit. At which point, it's a Billion-plus ISK ship with average EHP and a weak, weak tank.
If you can't do something with that, y'all need to play something else.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.06.01 21:15:00 -
[137]
The thread title is "Machariel are OP" The thread title is not "Machariels beat Bhaalgorns"
Its ridiculous derailing to claim that this thread is only about small gangs or only about how the Machariel compares to the Bhaalgorn. Its Dumb. CCP doesn't balance ships on the basis of how they preform in magic land 1v1s that never happen. They balance ships based on how they preform in THE GAME THAT THEY BUILT CALLED EVE. By the way EVE is not a magically fair 1v1 pvp engine.
The Machariel is frustrating to people because it can slip away so easily from a fight. The Bhaalgorn is not frustrating because it can't.
The Bhaalgorn is a bigger powerhouse by itself. It can't kite. Therefore the Machariel is more useful more of the time to good pilots and more frustrating to everyone else.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.06.01 21:23:00 -
[138]
Then why did you directly compare the Mach to the Bhaalgorn? More accurately, why did you try to point out ALL the good things about the mach while neglecting many of the more awesome things about the Bhaalgorn? You say it's not about 1v1, but maybe 2v2 ... Bhaals obliterate Machs. It's just a fact.
I guess my point is that the Mach being good at running away is an ok thing. It may be too good at it (and IMO it is a little bit - a very tiny tiny amount - too good at it), but really pirate ships NEED to be good. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2011.06.01 21:25:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita The thread title is "Machariel are OP" The thread title is not "Machariels beat Bhaalgorns"
Its ridiculous derailing to claim that this thread is only about small gangs or only about how the Machariel compares to the Bhaalgorn. Its Dumb. CCP doesn't balance ships on the basis of how they preform in magic land 1v1s that never happen. They balance ships based on how they preform in THE GAME THAT THEY BUILT CALLED EVE. By the way EVE is not a magically fair 1v1 pvp engine.
The Machariel is frustrating to people because it can slip away so easily from a fight. The Bhaalgorn is not frustrating because it can't.
The Bhaalgorn is a bigger powerhouse by itself. It can't kite. Therefore the Machariel is more useful more of the time to good pilots and more frustrating to everyone else.
The Bhaalgorn I believe was only mentioned as a possible ship to solve the OPs problem, someone then claimed that the Bhaalgorn would still die to Machariels. So the thread got derailed into proving that the Bhaalgorn once it gets locks on the Machariel will keep it there to kill it. It wasnt meant to be a discussion about 1v1s and so on only that in the OP a Bhaalgorn will either kill the Machs or force them to leave.
All of the Angel Ship lines OPness comes from there ability to disengaged due to High speed/agility. Knock that down a little and the problem is solved, make it a little harder for them to disengage when they bite more than they can chew, although they should still be better at it than the next best kiters in their category e.g. Vaga - Cynabal, Tempest - Machariel
-------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! |
Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.06.02 08:11:00 -
[140]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3UK3FbqH1A
Since everyone else is posting irrelevant **** about Machs, I might as well hop on the gravvy train.
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sykokill
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Posted - 2011.06.02 12:40:00 -
[141]
yes the mac can be hard to kill but so can enyother ship if you dont have the right ships to kill it in you pay ober a bill for the ship and fitting i mean you cant rilly conplain.
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Azver Deroven
Amarr Pitch Black. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.02 15:24:00 -
[142]
Kinda cute how lovebirds started to quarrel over mach vs bhaal.
Personally I'd rather sit in a stealthbomber with my mates and wait a friendly recon to get near enough to pop a covert cyno, but thats just me. Fair fighting's never been my strong suit but far as neuts and machs go, I can vouch for that. And if we look at the numbers, mach's gonna be toast if both are without, or both are with boosters.
Then again maybe OP met some machs that got around the max range of things when boosted 'n heated, or just knew exactly what to prio on killing order to make it painful for him.
Anyway, my unexperienced ranting aside, mach's OP? No. Its annoying as hell, it'll make you butthurt if you think about engaging it without being ready for it but yeah, you can be ready for it and the fact that it has a counter means its not OP, at least on my books. We need a new term to be mid-ground for underpowered and overpowered, maybe "challenging to fight"? And thats exactly what mach is. ---------------------------------------------------- My views do not represent those of my alliance, corporation or myself. Trully, sometimes I manage to confuse even myself.
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A'Brantox Foson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.02 17:18:00 -
[143]
I have just bought 1 so.. SHUTTUP SHUTTUP SHUTTUP!..
SHUT YOUR STUPID FACE!! :)
Jurgan Klinsman was here |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2011.06.03 03:30:00 -
[144]
Oh man so much pro faction bs pilot talk here. Only bhaalgorn I ever saw do anything pvp related besides killing cyno kestrel is... well, myself lol. And I'm not sure what sort of a cretin would a machariel have to be to die to a bhaalgorn. Maybe on test server if we agree to not get outside 30 km of each other? Even if we imagine they both jump gate in order to start close, the machariel can warp off way before bhaal can lock it. Unlike most of you I actually saw it happen a couple of times.
The problem with all those brilliant bring-a-bhaal and similar suggestions is that they assume the other guy is a ******. Reminds me of those old OMG WE CANT KILL A VAGABOND WHAT DO WE DO threads, when someone comes along and says "lol get a curse noob". Really now.
Angel ships are all op, however I'd say mach is the least op of the angel line in relation to other factions' counterparts. Yes, you could argue that both mach and vindicator have certain advantages over mach in certain situations. Nightmare is meh and rattlesnake is utter rubbish so i suppose including them into comparison is meaningless. But the mach/bhaal/vindi trio are in a very rough sense balanced out by their different ways of being good, although mach is imo still best all around.
As for the original post... if you have 2 falcons with minmatar jammers who can't jam 2 machariels you're really something special. But thats fine, good falcon is a dead falcon so my sympathies go to the machariels in your story. Hope you lost many ecm drones too.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.06.03 05:55:00 -
[145]
I mentionted situations that you might normally find yourself in. The Bhaalgorn can neut out carriers and the Mach can't. This situation is rare and doesn't have much impact on on how powerful a mach is. A Bhaalgorn can beat a heavier enemy force than a Mach before getting bogged down. This isn't too important because both of them can beat solid oposing forces. Its balanced out in that kiting at small blob numbers is the best solution to killing rabble anyway. The Machariel can kite. The Bhaalgorn can't.
People use the Machariel because its an extremely useful ship bordering on being too useful. I've killed 4 of them in the last month and a half since switching alliances. In that time I killed 1 Nightmare. By comparison I can't remember the last time I got a chance to fight a Bhaalgorn. Im sure that I could demonstrate that many more Machariels show up on KMs than Bhaalgorns.
The question isn't if the Machariel is better than the Bhaalgorn. The question is if the Machariel is overpowered. I think that it borders being overpowered but its high price may justify its abilities. I don't have any doubts as to if the Bhaalgorn is overpowered. It isn't. If it was I'd be more worried about what to do about the Bhaalgorns I see flying around. How to kill them and how to stop them from killing me. For some reason I just don't think those thoughts. I think, "I wish someone would fly a Bhaalgorn past me when I was in a fleet so I could get on a Bhaalgorn killmail. I haven't gotten one of those before."
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.06.03 10:22:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Vrabac Only bhaalgorn I ever saw do anything pvp related besides killing cyno kestrel is... well, myself lol.
I suggest you look around. They're used, extensively.
Quote: the machariel can warp off way before bhaal can lock it. Unlike most of you I actually saw it happen a couple of times.
Confirming that using a battleship with no SeBo for tackle is a great idea.
More Angel ship whine, which is just user error.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2011.06.03 12:01:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Vrabac Only bhaalgorn I ever saw do anything pvp related besides killing cyno kestrel is... well, myself lol.
I suggest you look around. They're used, extensively.
Quote: the machariel can warp off way before bhaal can lock it. Unlike most of you I actually saw it happen a couple of times.
Confirming that using a battleship with no SeBo for tackle is a great idea.
More Angel ship whine, which is just user error.
Oh you're right they are used extensively. Like I saw lot of mails when a group of 10+ people kill something stupid and random, like a drake, and then there's a bhaalgorn on mail. Obviously it was the deciding factor. However, to echo the above poster, I never killed a bhaalgorn, ever. Killed fair bit of machs, some vindicators, a nightmare and a few rattlesnakes even because someone somewhere said they are good for mission running, but never a bhaalgorn, ever. I got some 6k kills total between 2 characters. Used extensively, right.
And sensor booster on one is a brilliant idea, really. Not to mention it wouldn't help. Not to mention if you do lock the mach, which you won't, he's now only a little faster than you are. Or are you dropping the mwd? Or the point, maybe its a tournament, or test server? Or maybe tacklers tackle? No matter what you do, your capabilities as a military expert are obvious. You know your faction bs stuff.
Bhaalgorn is a great ship but the sheer popularity of mach strongly implies it is in fact better all around for typical situations you find yourself in. Same goes for vindicator really. Still, as I said, this is not nearly as problematic as how cynabal and dramiel relate to their counterparts and rest of the game.
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Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade ShadowWolves.net
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Posted - 2011.06.03 15:11:00 -
[148]
Funny thing is - I don't really think the angel line are overpowered so much as everything else is underpowered. Sort of like how Amarr have "Abaddon Online" as the fleet BS standard. CCP's done a great job into forcing you to ignore 4/5 of their ship lineup due to being plainly outclassed by a small number of other ships forcing you to train those or stay home.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2011.06.03 15:22:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Vrabac Oh man so much pro faction bs pilot talk here. Only bhaalgorn I ever saw do anything pvp related besides killing cyno kestrel is... well, myself lol. And I'm not sure what sort of a cretin would a machariel have to be to die to a bhaalgorn. Maybe on test server if we agree to not get outside 30 km of each other? Even if we imagine they both jump gate in order to start close, the machariel can warp off way before bhaal can lock it. Unlike most of you I actually saw it happen a couple of times.
The problem with all those brilliant bring-a-bhaal and similar suggestions is that they assume the other guy is a ******. Reminds me of those old OMG WE CANT KILL A VAGABOND WHAT DO WE DO threads, when someone comes along and says "lol get a curse noob". Really now.
Angel ships are all op, however I'd say mach is the least op of the angel line in relation to other factions' counterparts. Yes, you could argue that both mach and vindicator have certain advantages over mach in certain situations. Nightmare is meh and rattlesnake is utter rubbish so i suppose including them into comparison is meaningless. But the mach/bhaal/vindi trio are in a very rough sense balanced out by their different ways of being good, although mach is imo still best all around.
As for the original post... if you have 2 falcons with minmatar jammers who can't jam 2 machariels you're really something special. But thats fine, good falcon is a dead falcon so my sympathies go to the machariels in your story. Hope you lost many ecm drones too.
Yeah man you are the only one to have ever used a bhaalgorn and it's true, they are a useless ship. No one ever flies it. I think you have just overtaken rougueoperator for the stupid award of the thread.
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Bloody2k
Gallente ZERO T0LERANCE RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.03 15:34:00 -
[150]
Machariel is not overpowered. Generally they are fast ships - that is in the advantage of the Angel Cartel (modifierd Minmatar ships). Actually speed is a easy way to fight in EVE. You have a very high initiative against other tactics. You can dominate your player because, you decide wether I attack of I run away...because I am able to leave fight if I want. The problem is not the Machariel, the Problem is the speed balance in game. Be honest, everyone will kill a Machariel - it costs more than a carrier, so it should be a good ship! I am always happy to see faction ships in PvP.
Again. The Problem is in my opinion the speed balance. It gives a lot of ways to kill a Machariel. It consists of the situation. The problem is the counterparts of speed.
Look at the "best pvp player" (best listed in Battleclinic) They use Drakes and Hurricans... Einmal mit Profis! |
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