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Farrisa Aideron
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Posted - 2011.05.30 07:08:00 -
[1]
Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.
I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.
Discuss
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.30 07:13:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Farrisa Aideron Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.
I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.
Discuss
imba op **** angel ships ,the most broken ships in eve by far maybe except imba op supercarriers
rly what these angle ships lack ? nothing but they excell at speed signature and agility must be a dumb who calls that balance
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.05.30 07:24:00 -
[3]
Try chasing them off with a Bhaalgorn, they will either not engage at all or die if they do and its not like you don't have the ISK value of 5 recons and w/e else you have on the field.
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Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
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Posted - 2011.05.30 07:28:00 -
[4]
Machariels can MWD as fast, if not faster, than cruisers. The Machariel's 50% faster than a Vindicator, a close range blaster ship, even before you start fitting plates and trimarks on it. Once you fit some plates and trimarks to Vindicator, the Mach goes about 70% faster
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Precisionist
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Posted - 2011.05.30 08:05:00 -
[5]
Perhaps the real Issue is the fact Armor rigs take off speed, should only be 1 armor rig that takes off speed Trimarks!, ccp half ass'ed everything and didnt take this into consideration about the Total balance of the game, or at least part of the issues, also lets forgot how rails are horrible and blasters are pretty bad.
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Korg Tronix
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2011.05.30 08:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Korg Tronix on 30/05/2011 08:35:32
Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet Machariels can MWD as fast, if not faster, than cruisers. The Machariel's 50% faster than a Vindicator, a close range blaster ship, even before you start fitting plates and trimarks on it. Once you fit some plates and trimarks to Vindicator, the Mach goes about 70% faster
Im not sure the Vindicator is a good indicator of speed as its still one of the fastest BS in the game, plus with the web bonus has less to worry about speed wise than normal Blaster boats. Only BS faster than Vindicator are the typhoon hulls and the tempest fleet issue I believe.
The Machariel however has little to worry about due to its ability to not get caught.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.30 10:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Farrisa Aideron Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.
I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.
Discuss
This is obviously untrue: everyone knows that Falcons can always permajam any ship with one ECM module, even using an off-racial jammer.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.30 10:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Farrisa Aideron Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.
I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.
Discuss
This is obviously untrue: everyone knows that Falcons can always permajam any ship with one ECM module, even using an off-racial jammer.
You forgot to mention they can do it from 300km away and don't need a target lock.
Seriously though, yes, Angel ships need a serious rework. As supercarriers very bluntly show: cost is not an effective means of balancing ships. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Demolishar
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Posted - 2011.05.30 10:36:00 -
[9]
Just blob them with Rifters.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.05.30 10:55:00 -
[10]
The entire angel line is like that. The dramiel, cynabal and mach are way faster than anything in their class and also come close to being the top in dps and tank. The dramiel is much better than any dogfighting interceptor, the cynabal is much better than a vagabond and the mach is by far the best ship in its class. At least with machariels the price does matter. If they were 400 mil I'm sure it'd be machariels online.
Anyway yeah I agree with the op, even if it's hilarious that they complain about not getting permajams with two falcons.
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Eihnlazer
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:14:00 -
[11]
~)~ as anyone can see from alliance tournament results, the machariel is not OP.
They are fast, and have good DPS, as is the minmitar credo, but you cant say their tank is all that good compared to other BS's. If you buffer fit them, they have crap resists, and if you resist/shield booster fit them they are extremely easy to cap out. Also, many fits use resist armor tanking on them, but then their DPS drops quite a bit.
Now im not saying that their tank sucks, but there are definately ways around it.
Anywho, to get to the real point. The mach is my baby so dont nerf it. I acctually quit the game and came back ONLY because i wanted to fly it around again. If you guys ruin it i shall commit suicide then haunt you as a ghost.
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MUHEP KAPU6AC
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: MUHEP KAPU6AC on 30/05/2011 11:19:00 Machariel are IMBA nightmare are OP as well. Bhaalgorn imba more than machariel. Rattlesnake is balanced ship. Vindicator really gimp
Every one know imba is dramiel only,
Cruor and vindi and phantasm are gimps.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Farrisa Aideron Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD)
Learn to Falcon.
Machariel is indeed a bit overpowered, but surely not as much as Drakes, cynoes, supercarriers and hi-sec mission running are. ---
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Swynet on 30/05/2011 11:34:03
Originally by: Farrisa Aideron Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.
I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.
Discuss
They are not OP, they work has intended. If there is some trouble is with all the ships in this game completely imbalanced with silly bonus, missing slots, not enough PG/cap making them total crap face to those who work fine.
The only stuff I see that bothers me is that marauders are worst, read above about balance and silly bonus, and the over estimated price they are sold while they (pirate stuff) don't need more stuff to be build than another high tiers ship in the same category.
Now marauders price has raised about 50% in less than 6 months..., why the hell would you train or buy such expensive and skill intensive elite battleship when you can do better with some pirate ship and all you need is to mission in low sec to get the bp? Marauders performances aren't even worthy of the materials used to build them.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.05.30 14:33:00 -
[15]
Angel ships are overpowered, and have been since they got boosted. They make epic nanoships. If your answer to machariels is to point at the bhaalgorn then you're just wrong. 1400 Mach Hacs is a deadly fleet. Bhaalgorn fails to counter it but also fails to be more than just a supplement to something else anyway.
Now you have me thinking about the days before the nanonerf wishing that at the time I had the SP and cash to fly a snaked out Mach.
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Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood
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Posted - 2011.05.30 14:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Now you have me thinking about the days before the nanonerf wishing that at the time I had the SP and cash to fly a snaked out Mach.
LOL because Machs were only good since the buff in 2009.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2011.05.30 14:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Farrisa Aideron Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.
I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.
Discuss
everyone knows angel ships are extremely op... CCP has really been dropping the ball when it comes to balance since about 2006.
All we need is another pie graph showing ships used at the end of this tourney to seal the deal. Lets see if we can get over 50% angel ships again, lol....
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.05.30 15:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 30/05/2011 15:06:02
Simple test on if they are OP.
This hypothetical is assuming you will have speced for said ships since you made your character before those that come in saying dumb things like "I only fly Caldari" and all that jazz. Also "but it cant break a drakes tank" is another stupid point since that means that game became nothing but drakes and cynabals which is just as flipping bad.
If in the ship classes frig, cruiser, battleship, your character can only fly one ship of that class and that ship is the only ship you will ever be able to fly, bother pve and pvp. Which ship do you choose.
If you answer anything other then the dramiel, cynabal, Machariel you are either a liar or and idiot.
If you are a fool to pick any other ship then said ship is overpowered. If every other choice is subpar and one obviously stands on top in all situations its Overpowered.
They have tank, dps, speed, drones, agility. They have no solid weakness or shortfall.
Price is not a good argument point since even for the price they are OP. If the ships cost three to five times what they are now maybe you have a valid point. Same concepts applies to capitals.
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Hermann Fegelein
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.30 15:46:00 -
[19]
I think the training should be increased. Maybe make two times or three times the amount of training to get into a decently fitted L3.
The ship is expensive for a single person but for a corporation that's a small investment
You also only need maybe 3 months of training to fly one. Seriously?
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Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN! |
Zed Skool
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Posted - 2011.05.30 15:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Eihnlazer ~)~ as anyone can see from alliance tournament results, the machariel is not OP.
Yeah, but unfortunately, we all normally play outside of the tournament.
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slightly sillydude
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:06:00 -
[21]
Machs have crap targeting range. Two Lachesis and two Huggins should eat them for lunch. Throw in a curse for extra lolz.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: slightly sillydude Machs have crap targeting range. Two Lachesis and two Huggins should eat them for lunch. Throw in a curse for extra lolz.
It only takes 5 tech 2 ships to weaken it enough to be able to deal with it.......
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:19:00 -
[23]
The weakness of machariels, is they get ****d very very very hard by abaddon/recon blobs. As long as you blob, the mach dies.
Both cost effectively and overpoweringly.
They are also hardly cost effective against anything. It will die almost regardless what your fleet blob composition is. as long as theres recons
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slightly sillydude
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: slightly sillydude Machs have crap targeting range. Two Lachesis and two Huggins should eat them for lunch. Throw in a curse for extra lolz.
It only takes 5 tech 2 ships to weaken it enough to be able to deal with it.......
Well, thats to deal with two of them, and you don't need the curse. Two Tech 2 ships is really not an unreasonable request to deal with a Mach.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:26:00 -
[25]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 30/05/2011 16:27:21
Originally by: slightly sillydude
Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: slightly sillydude Machs have crap targeting range. Two Lachesis and two Huggins should eat them for lunch. Throw in a curse for extra lolz.
It only takes 5 tech 2 ships to weaken it enough to be able to deal with it.......
Well, thats to deal with two of them, and you don't need the curse. Two Tech 2 ships is really not an unreasonable request to deal with a Mach.
Reread you posts, they make no sense. Are you talking about dealing with two machs or only using two ships to deal with them;which is unlikely.
Originally by: Straight Edged The weakness of machariels, is they get ****d very very very hard by abaddon/recon blobs. As long as you blob, the mach dies.
Both cost effectively and overpoweringly.
They are also hardly cost effective against anything. It will die almost regardless what your fleet blob composition is. as long as theres recons
You are just completely delusional.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:32:00 -
[26]
There is a reason why people dont engage our baddon fleets with machariel's :)
They will die. shield/armor/ac/arty
It doesnt matter. baddon can fit tachy's/pulses/beams2/arties and they will still melt machariels cost effectively and effortlessly.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:33:00 -
[27]
5 100mil t2 hac/recons = 500 mil 2 1bil Mach = 2 bil
That's actually pretty good efficiency. What is there to whine about again?
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Demolishar
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Posted - 2011.05.30 17:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Goose99 5 100mil t2 hac/recons = 500 mil 2 1bil Mach = 2 bil
That's actually pretty good efficiency. What is there to whine about again?
20,000 t1 rifters are OP. 2B worth of ships should NOT be able to do 200,000 dps, and tackle everything. Nerf rifters.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.05.30 17:50:00 -
[29]
Quote: The weakness of machariels, is they get ****d very very very hard by abaddon/recon blobs. As long as you blob, the mach dies.
Not sure that the answer to everything in Eve should be blobbing stuff. A lot of people find that really boring.
I think people were talking about machs in smaller gangs. Cost aside they are easily the best solo/small gang roaming ship and also do pretty well in mid size fleets (20ish). Actually in the frigate, cruiser and battleship class the angel ships are much better all around ships than anything else.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.30 17:55:00 -
[30]
If it's truly OP, you would be flying it instead of whinning about it. Gee, there must be a reason you don't. Oh, I see, you don't want to spend the isk.
Face it, unless every ship is identical, some will always be better than others at something. If there has to be an OP boat, it should be a 1 bil fat bait that gets primaried every time, instead of the cheap mass produced Abaddon that get ignored. What you want is to make the cheapboat that you're willing to risk in pvp OP, instead of the 1 bil boat plus fittings. An OP cheapboat will truly break Eve.
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