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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:31:00 - [1] The CarbonUI team have been working hard on the next release, and the new dev blog from CCP Snorlax has all the details. Read about their work here. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:33:00 - [2] First, lawl And yay for progress \o/ -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
Zeighy	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:38:00 - [3] aha, nice to hear. Maybe dragging windows across the screen don't lag as much anymore? And by that I mean, having that sort of friction feel to it when you drag a window...
Ruby Khann	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:40:00 - [4] Am I going to have to use a silly 3d thing to open my cargo while docked like in that picture?
Dusty Meg	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:41:00 - [5] Sounds great. So this means we get a new GUI?
DaiTengu Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Ruby Khann Am I going to have to use a silly 3d thing to open my cargo while docked like in that picture? That, or you can walk to a balcony overlooking your ship.
MonoMonster	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:43:00 - [7] Hmmm might be just me but will there be a option to disable the walking in station UI etc. and just stick with the old docked UI ? old UI might be old but it always worked fine in my eyes hehe. I'm not realy looking forward having to walk around a room to just load my ship and quickly undock again etc.
DaiTengu Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:44:00 - [8] Scanned the article, it doesn't say when this patch is going to be released. I'm assuming it's sometime between now and June 21, right? :)
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:46:00 - [9] Quote: Why should I care? When EVE was launched some 8 years ago, the UI looked pretty much on par with other games. Times have changed, but our UI hasn't really. Even though projects such as CarbonUI are difficult to pull through, they are absolutely essential if we ever want to move beyond what the current technology allows for. Even though players won't see much visual difference once we launch CarbonUI on to TQ, we can promise you that our UI designers are already hearing a lot more of "sure, no problem" when they deliver their regular batch of crazy ideas to their fellow programmers, ultimately resulting in UI that's fittingly awesome for our lovely little space game. What about performance? We'll take a more detailed look at the difference in performance with CarbonUI in a future devblog! So this means you are going to address all the horrible UI issues we've been stuck with for years right not just a facelift? Previously I had read it said/alluded to that changes couldn't be done because it would be too hard due to old code etc this should no longer be the problem anymore.
Salpun Gallente Paramount Commerce	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:47:00 - [10] Tomorrow the 31st is the date it will be deployed. The patch notes thread has the date on it.

Hylax Ciai Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:47:00 - [11] Originally by: DaiTengu Scanned the article, it doesn't say when this patch is going to be released. I'm assuming it's sometime between now and June 21, right? :) Tomorrow Also, the UI dev is female? Quote: For example, if she wants a button centered at the bottom of a window, the button gets a CENTERBOTTOM alignment.
Scarria Zarkina Caldari Interstellar Logistics and Trade Corp	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:49:00 - [12] Looks great.
M1AU Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:49:00 - [13] The only important thing for me is: will it work properly on Linux through wine?
TorTorden Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:01:00 - [14] Originally by: M1AU The only important thing for me is: will it work properly on Linux through wine? I'l settle for it not breaking everything for everyone. ------------------------------------------------ There is no such thing as good or evil. Just an egotistic struggle for self empowerment. ------------------------------------------------
Aronis Contar Caldari Independent Manufacturers	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Ruby Khann Am I going to have to use a silly 3d thing to open my cargo while docked like in that picture? No of course not. You still have your Neocom on screen while running around (or you can hide it, whatever tickles your fancy...). Also: Originally by: CCP Snorlax When EVE was launched some 8 years ago, the UI looked pretty much on par with other games. Don't worry, the EVE UI still looks great compared to other games. I especially like the highlights moving across all UI elements when you rotate the view (please never drop that feature). Ciao, Aronis!
Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:08:00 - [16] Originally by: MonoMonster Hmmm might be just me but will there be a option to disable the walking in station UI etc. and just stick with the old docked UI ? old UI might be old but it always worked fine in my eyes hehe. I'm not realy looking forward having to walk around a room to just load my ship and quickly undock again etc. 1:24 of the video -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
Korerin Mayul Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:08:00 - [17] This makes me happy in my pants. it may look a bit 'work in progress' now, but i see superawesome potential 'going forward'* Moveyifying the EVE UI may **** some purists off but if it makes the game look sexier it has my superficial shallow vote :D *I hate this phrase and everyone who uses it, myself included.
Kayen Qeid Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:14:00 - [18] Originally by: M1AU The only important thing for me is: will it work properly on Linux through wine? I second that.
Lutz Major	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:18:00 - [19] Are bigger fonts possible with the new UI?
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:26:00 - [20] This dev blog makes me very happy. The rendering of UI elements in the 3D scene is exactly what I've been thinking is critical for Incarna or whatever it's called to feel immersive, ie: interactible UI on holo-screens in the environment. That and a fancier and more efficient UI framework is awesome. I'm sure someone will find some way to complain about this like everything else, but you definitely get a thumbs-up from me. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW----- Bring back the NeoNeoCom!

mkint	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Kyra Felann This dev blog makes me very happy. The rendering of UI elements in the 3D scene is exactly what I've been thinking is critical for Incarna or whatever it's called to feel immersive, ie: interactible UI on holo-screens in the environment. That and a fancier and more efficient UI framework is awesome. I'm sure someone will find some way to complain about this like everything else, but you definitely get a thumbs-up from me. As a professional complainer, I have to say the only part of 3D UI I can complain about is not also having them in 2D. Also as a professional complainer, I really don't have much to complain about with CarbonUI... my testing showed it to be the first client-side performance improvement in years. Of course blah blah blah is still broken and looks tacky and amateurish, but at least it's snappy.
Acadir Nimroren'a Caldari The Wyld Hunt Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:48:00 - [22] Edited by: Acadir Nimroren''a on 30/05/2011 18:48:05 Looks all good, love the idea that the UI may finally be updated. - Probably stolen something from you.
Eli Strange Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.30 19:00:00 - [23] I am glad that I have stayed with this game. Nice job CCP. If the present world go astray, the cause is in you, in you it is to be sought. Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.05.30 20:29:00 - [24] I was told there would be cake.
Lirinas	Posted - 2011.05.30 20:35:00 - [25] Out of curiosity, does this phase of Corification also include the actual 3d in-space view itself? The biggest annoyance I've had with the EVE Visuals is the whole Fish-Eye effect you get while in space. With these changes, will it finally be possible to bid this skewed perspective farewell? If that distorted perspective is part of game design (i.e. to keep people from having an advantage if they have bigger monitors), then could I suggest having the In-Space view as a movable, re-sizable window in the client itself. I.e. make the IS view it's own UI element. There are times I'd almost would rather have a smaller window with a proper aspect ratio rather than a stretched-out and distorted image, especially since the IS view is fixed with how much you can actually see, regardless of the resolution the client is set to.
Malen Nenokal The Nightshift	Posted - 2011.05.30 20:37:00 - [26] Everything has been running soooo much smoother on Duality. I love the improvements.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:10:00 - [27] With a new rendering layer for the UI, does that mean the HUD could be scalable in the future for those that are half blind and refuses to use glasses?
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:16:00 - [28] I predict some pretty big/serious bugs on this one. But one can't deny the fact that it's going to be much better in the long run. Sounds good. ________________________________________________
Daedalus II Helios Research	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:19:00 - [29] CCP Snorlax? Nice name, it means snot-salmon in Swedish But I guess it goes well with that rotten shark you eat? ___________ Interested in incursions? Join Helios Research!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:31:00 - [30] Again , new fonts are on the CQ build allready

Olivor	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:31:00 - [31] Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow
Don Pellegrino Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:32:00 - [32] Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 30/05/2011 21:33:18 Originally by: Franga I predict some pretty big/serious bugs on this one. But one can't deny the fact that it's going to be much better in the long run. Sounds good. It's been on Sisi for so long that I doubt something major will happen. But they, this is CCP after all so maybe someone will find a way to access the GM menus or something, lol. EDIT: Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow Read the blog. This is just a low-level and invisible (it's a LOT faster, though) change to make further major changes possible. ____________________________________________
Olivor	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:36:00 - [33] Edited by: Olivor on 30/05/2011 21:36:12 Originally by: Don Pellegrino Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 30/05/2011 21:33:18 Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow Read the blog. This is just a low-level and invisible (it's a LOT faster, though) change to make further major changes possible. So, still not redesigning from scratch then, as they'll still be using the base code
Evelgrivion Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Olivor Edited by: Olivor on 30/05/2011 21:36:12 Originally by: Don Pellegrino Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 30/05/2011 21:33:18 Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow Read the blog. This is just a low-level and invisible (it's a LOT faster, though) change to make further major changes possible. So, still not redesigning from scratch then, as they'll still be using the base code It sounds like the Carbonization of the EVE UI involved putting a new wrapper around the legacy code to make it prettier and, depending on what parts of the legacy code base are ignored, faster. The stated goal of Carbonization is to create a platform agnostic code-base that can be picked up and used for other MMOs from CCP. Isn't this precisely the kind of shortcut you'd want to avoid for that stated goal?
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:56:00 - [35] Originally by: CCP Snorlax We appreciate your help with spotting anything unexpected, and we'll be monitoring all the usual channels carefully. That is a generous statement. But I must ask: what about the current issues with the UI such as the foobar'd chat windows where wrapped text bunches up and overlaps with lines above or what about the 'ghost' selection highlights on items in station inventory windows? Also, what are the "usual channels" and what are the best means for users to communicate found issues? Bug reports? Official "issue" threads?
Olivor	Posted - 2011.05.30 22:18:00 - [36] Edited by: Olivor on 30/05/2011 22:18:47 Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/05/2011 22:00:00 It sounds like the Carbonization of the EVE UI involved putting a new wrapper around the legacy code to make it prettier and, depending on what parts of the legacy code base are ignored, faster. The stated goal of Carbonization is to create a platform agnostic code-base that can be picked up and used for other MMOs from CCP. Isn't this precisely the kind of shortcut you wanted to avoid when starting this project in the first place? I think the fact of the matter is that CCP don't seemingly know how half their code works anymore... So instead of redesigning it from scratch so it can be worked on easier in the future they're continuing with this half hearted approach which may look nice but is only (wall)papering over the cracks.
Jim Luc Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.	Posted - 2011.05.30 23:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Olivor Edited by: Olivor on 30/05/2011 22:18:47 Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/05/2011 22:00:00 It sounds like the Carbonization of the EVE UI involved putting a new wrapper around the legacy code to make it prettier and, depending on what parts of the legacy code base are ignored, faster. The stated goal of Carbonization is to create a platform agnostic code-base that can be picked up and used for other MMOs from CCP. Isn't this precisely the kind of shortcut you wanted to avoid when starting this project in the first place? I think the fact of the matter is that CCP don't seemingly know how half their code works anymore... So instead of redesigning it from scratch so it can be worked on easier in the future they're continuing with this half hearted approach which may look nice but is only (wall)papering over the cracks. As a developer myself, I can say this is definitely not just papering over the cracks.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.05.30 23:12:00 - [38] Thanks for the blog. One thing that wasn't entirely clear, perhaps due to misreading: does the new framework support pushing elements forward and back in z-space relative to whatever model a UI texture sits on? (ie. making an element pop out on mouseover) ___ Latest video: Future Proof (720p) 2D Animator
Jennifer Nardieu	Posted - 2011.05.30 23:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Jim Luc Originally by: Olivor Edited by: Olivor on 30/05/2011 22:18:47 Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/05/2011 22:00:00 It sounds like the Carbonization of the EVE UI involved putting a new wrapper around the legacy code to make it prettier and, depending on what parts of the legacy code base are ignored, faster. The stated goal of Carbonization is to create a platform agnostic code-base that can be picked up and used for other MMOs from CCP. Isn't this precisely the kind of shortcut you wanted to avoid when starting this project in the first place? I think the fact of the matter is that CCP don't seemingly know how half their code works anymore... So instead of redesigning it from scratch so it can be worked on easier in the future they're continuing with this half hearted approach which may look nice but is only (wall)papering over the cracks. As a developer myself, I can say this is definitely not just papering over the cracks. As lord of the universe and all that is in it. I can definitely say there seem to be a lot of "well we wanted to, but we didn't" styled comments in this blog. The UI performance is a nightmare and the thing that scares me the most are the words that suggested we can expect slower performance from the new UI code. Does any of the UI improvement go towards fixing the tiny tiny little annoying delaying niggles that eve players experience every day? I understand iterative development and the need to deliver but please don't say you're not re-writing the core underlying UI code because "here be dragons". Grab a sword and shield and go slay the damn things if you have to. Ask what would your developers do differently now, if they could turn back time and build the entire UI backend from the ground up? Then do that.
Phantom Slave Universal Pest Exterminators	Posted - 2011.05.31 00:07:00 - [40] I currently have a bug report (ID 111168) that's unfiltered with problems with the Duality UI. It was originally filtered with the bug hunter asking for more information and it hasn't been filtered again since I updated with more screenshots and some information about what I'm experiencing. Hoping it isn't the same build that's going on TQ, or that the issue has been fixed internally.

DaiTengu Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.05.31 00:21:00 - [41] Originally by: Daedalus II CCP Snorlax? Nice name, it means snot-salmon in Swedish But I guess it goes well with that rotten shark you eat? Should I ever pursue a position with Crowd Control Productions, makers of Eve Online, a terrible spaceship game, based in Iceland, I shall make sure my name is CCP SnotSalmon
Ephemeral Waves Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2011.05.31 00:40:00 - [42] So... you're messing with the UI. Well past time. But, while doing that, did you fix the font? It is much more important to know the difference between 0 and O; B and 8; and G and 6 than whether you can make 3d looking windows.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.05.31 01:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Evelgrivion It sounds like the Carbonization of the EVE UI involved putting a new wrapper around the legacy code to make it prettier and, depending on what parts of the legacy code base are ignored, faster. The stated goal of Carbonization is to create a platform agnostic code-base that can be picked up and used for other MMOs from CCP. Isn't this precisely the kind of shortcut you wanted to avoid when starting this project in the first place? This would have been a valid concern if it wasn't COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of what was actually done, and only servers to highlight how IGNORANT you are. The fact is they replaced the underlying UI code making it more flexible and faster, while the UI-using python code now uses a legacy API wrapper and could thus be left unchanged for the time being.
mkint	Posted - 2011.05.31 02:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Jennifer Nardieu Originally by: Jim Luc Originally by: Olivor Edited by: Olivor on 30/05/2011 22:18:47 Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/05/2011 22:00:00 It sounds like the Carbonization of the EVE UI involved putting a new wrapper around the legacy code to make it prettier and, depending on what parts of the legacy code base are ignored, faster. The stated goal of Carbonization is to create a platform agnostic code-base that can be picked up and used for other MMOs from CCP. Isn't this precisely the kind of shortcut you wanted to avoid when starting this project in the first place? I think the fact of the matter is that CCP don't seemingly know how half their code works anymore... So instead of redesigning it from scratch so it can be worked on easier in the future they're continuing with this half hearted approach which may look nice but is only (wall)papering over the cracks. As a developer myself, I can say this is definitely not just papering over the cracks. As lord of the universe and all that is in it. I can definitely say there seem to be a lot of "well we wanted to, but we didn't" styled comments in this blog. The UI performance is a nightmare and the thing that scares me the most are the words that suggested we can expect slower performance from the new UI code. Does any of the UI improvement go towards fixing the tiny tiny little annoying delaying niggles that eve players experience every day? I understand iterative development and the need to deliver but please don't say you're not re-writing the core underlying UI code because "here be dragons". Grab a sword and shield and go slay the damn things if you have to. Ask what would your developers do differently now, if they could turn back time and build the entire UI backend from the ground up? Then do that. You folks don't seem to get what this is exactly... Old code = a finicky balancing act where modifying one thing breaks everything else. new code = everything works on it's own so can be modified and optimized on it's own. Old code = inefficiencies make any changes to cause worsening client side performance. New code = efficiencies have already let the devs work out better client side performance than has been seen in years. On top of the code, new or old, is the actual UI visuals that include brackets and windows and stuff. Of course, once the UI designers with their gawd awful concepts of usability and aesthetics get their grubby hands on it, it's gonna go to crap, but the sisi client performance is beautiful. This is probably gonna be the single best patch in years. To be followed in a month by what will probably be one of the worst (almost as bad as Tyrranis... seriously that expansion sucked ass.)
El Mauru Amarr Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.05.31 02:32:00 - [45] I think a lot of people complaining about the absence of a "complete UI rewrite" forget what kind of box of worms that would open. "New is better" unfortunately often only applies on small-scale code-bases or those with simple features. Once a project gets sufficiently large and complex you will inevitably run into the situation where towards the end of your "complete rewrite" the basics of it are already semi-obsolete again or have so many addends tacked onto it that it is often more effective to burn through the old code step by step. Not to mention that Q&A for UI-stuff with complex specifications surprisingly enough is a true nightmare... -
fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.05.31 02:48:00 - [46] Edited by: fgft Athonille on 31/05/2011 02:48:34 new code old code you will find a way to make it look like total sh*t. let us make ui mods
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.31 06:30:00 - [47] Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 06:31:51 Hope it will work well. Keep up a good work, CCP.
IZZY EPIC	Posted - 2011.05.31 07:15:00 - [48] Edited by: IZZY EPIC on 31/05/2011 07:17:11 Walking In station, a step in some direction to eve. taking aways NPC standings from public a step back to the stone age! cant win me by throwing some glitter in the air infront of me! you gone no where in my eyes!
Florestan Bronstein draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.05.31 08:10:00 - [49] Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 31/05/2011 08:13:41 Originally by: Olivor I think the fact of the matter is that CCP don't seemingly know how half their code works anymore... So instead of redesigning it from scratch so it can be worked on easier in the future they're continuing with this half hearted approach which may look nice but is only (wall)papering over the cracks. you should work on your reading comprehension skills... let me put the devblog into a car analogy for you: CCP replaced the motor, suspension & chassis of the car but left the interior & couchwork untouched. The devblog says exactly the opposite of your posts - they did rewrite the old, slow, ugly core code but didn't yet get around to change the wallpaper. They redesigned their framework (probably not from scratch as you almost never design anything from scratch in the real world but they did some massive changes and probably rewrote a lot of ancient code) so it can be worked easier with in the future. That's the whole message of the devblog.
Hrug	Posted - 2011.05.31 08:12:00 - [50] Nice to hear there's improvement happening under the hood. Looking forward to seeing the effects of this once it hits TQ. A question, however: Are the new menus and UI elements shown on the screenshots the final version of what the new UI for Incarna will look like? I'm asking because they look somewhat cumbersome. And those contrasty gradients in the menus remind me of those old, table-designed websites from 10 years ago... Will we be able to alter the colors like we can for the rest of the UI?

BubbaGump ShrimpCo	Posted - 2011.05.31 08:16:00 - [51] I would love to hear that the UI is going to be more responsive. One of the major drawbacks for playing EVE on cheaper computers is that no matter how much you lower the graphics quality settings, even moderately fast computers with slowish graphics cards have a high-latency UI. It makes it feel like you're playing in a land of mud.
Qoi Exert Force	Posted - 2011.05.31 08:17:00 - [52] Expected only shiny whizzbang, read about performance improvements: hell yeah!
Louis deGuerre Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder	Posted - 2011.05.31 08:43:00 - [53] Originally by: Florestan Bronstein The devblog says exactly the opposite of your posts - they did rewrite the old, slow, ugly core code but didn't yet get around to change the wallpaper. They redesigned their framework (probably not from scratch as you almost never design anything from scratch in the real world but they did some massive changes and probably rewrote a lot of ancient code) so it can be worked easier with in the future. That's the whole message of the devblog. Originally by: CCP Snorlax We considered several approaches to revamping the UI framework, but at the end of the day we realized that the EVE UI code base was far too big to consider rewriting the whole UI with some new paradigms. Whatever approach we would take for a new UI framework would have to involve minimal reworking of EVE UI code. When I read this I read the exact opposite. They changed almost nothing in the UI core. So they only changed the wallpaper, but the building is just as spooky and haunted as before I find this worrisome. If there are bottlenecks in the core code it is likely they will never get found and fixed. ----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.31 09:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow I don't recall them talking about rewriting the whole thing from scratch. Redesigning, yes. For more information about redesigning code on the fly, look up two books: Working Effectively with Legacy Code and Refactoring. You can redesign without rewriting. That's what CCP are doing, have faith. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.31 10:11:00 - [55] Good stuff CCP...glad to see things moving forward with the UI and Carbon framework. ~Gnosis~
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2011.05.31 11:06:00 - [56] Correct me if I have this wrong but the blog seems to be refering to the UI within a station enviroment, specifically the new Incarna station enviroments? If this is correct, can and if so, will this technology be applied to the in-space UI that by and large is also the same as it was 8 years ago? Not that there's anything wrong with the current UI, I'm just interested to know Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur
Justin Cody Caldari Instant Annihilation Everto Rex Regis	Posted - 2011.05.31 12:59:00 - [57] Originally by: Jennifer Nardieu As lord of the universe and all that is in it. I can definitely say there seem to be a lot of "well we wanted to, but we didn't" styled comments in this blog. The UI performance is a nightmare and the thing that scares me the most are the words that suggested we can expect slower performance from the new UI code. Does any of the UI improvement go towards fixing the tiny tiny little annoying delaying niggles that eve players experience every day? I understand iterative development and the need to deliver but please don't say you're not re-writing the core underlying UI code because "here be dragons". Grab a sword and shield and go slay the damn things if you have to. Ask what would your developers do differently now, if they could turn back time and build the entire UI backend from the ground up? Then do that. If you paid attention you will note that this carbonization of the UI is what will let them slay said dragons in the future. They are building the siege equipment to lay waste to the dragon and its lair in one fell swoop. Call it Tactical Programming. They are giving you performance boosts now and laying the groundwork for a modernization of the UI that will not only update but take it to a level beyond what I think even you could expect. A while ago they enabled the new experimental UI on Sisi and I tried it out. Its different and might have some advantages but I'm sure it will not in the end look how I saw it. You will likely have a modular UI that will lend itself to more customization and adaptability to the pilots' needs in EVE. This is phase 1 son don't be such a downer. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
Justin Cody Caldari Instant Annihilation Everto Rex Regis	Posted - 2011.05.31 13:01:00 - [58] Originally by: John McCreedy Correct me if I have this wrong but the blog seems to be refering to the UI within a station enviroment, specifically the new Incarna station enviroments? If this is correct, can and if so, will this technology be applied to the in-space UI that by and large is also the same as it was 8 years ago? Not that there's anything wrong with the current UI, I'm just interested to know Lol wait what? same as 8 years ago? You must be ****ting me. I mena it has been a while since major changes were made...but there was a era before overviews...and when I had to toggle between high med and low slots and all kinds of other junk. I think you are insane. And to answer your question... yes this applies to the in-space UI. This is a universal improvement for the UI. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
Sino Sarn Sick Tight Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.05.31 13:36:00 - [59] when the hell is ccp gonna nerf supers already?
Chuck Skull b.b.k Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:18:00 - [60] Good work. Quote: Not enough attention had been given to the framework itself in the rush to add new features There's a lesson in there somewhere. --- Also available in 'sober'

Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:20:00 - [61] Originally by: Olivor Originally by: Don Pellegrino Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow Read the blog. This is just a low-level and invisible (it's a LOT faster, though) change to make further major changes possible. So, still not redesigning from scratch then, as they'll still be using the base code This is a redesign from scratch. They just rewrote the core of the UI. They rewrote it in such a way that it can still run the old, top level, code as well as be used with a bunch of shiny new stuff. If you want them to rebuild it completely, they have to start work in the basement. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Falkrich Swifthand Caldari eNinjas Incorporated	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:01:00 - [62] Originally by: Louis deGuerre Originally by: CCP Snorlax We considered several approaches to revamping the UI framework, but at the end of the day we realized that the EVE UI code base was far too big to consider rewriting the whole UI with some new paradigms. Whatever approach we would take for a new UI framework would have to involve minimal reworking of EVE UI code. When I read this I read the exact opposite. They changed almost nothing in the UI core. So they only changed the wallpaper, but the building is just as spooky and haunted as before I find this worrisome. If there are bottlenecks in the core code it is likely they will never get found and fixed. Read: UI Framework = thing they rewrote which does the actual rendering EVE UI = thing they left alone which tells the UI framework where to draw things So a translation: We considered several approaches to revamping the UI framework, but we realized that the code using the old framework was far too big to consider rewriting all of that as well. Whatever approach we would take for a new UI framework would have to involve minimal reworking of code that currently uses the old framework. nullnull My sig is not my sig.
Jim Luc Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:07:00 - [63] Originally by: Bagehi Originally by: Olivor Originally by: Don Pellegrino Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow Read the blog. This is just a low-level and invisible (it's a LOT faster, though) change to make further major changes possible. So, still not redesigning from scratch then, as they'll still be using the base code This is a redesign from scratch. They just rewrote the core of the UI. They rewrote it in such a way that it can still run the old, top level, code as well as be used with a bunch of shiny new stuff. If you want them to rebuild it completely, they have to start work in the basement. Exactly. From what I understand the original UI was very much ingrained in every aspect of the game's code. It wasn't a separate module, so rewriting it would essentially also require rewriting the rest of the game. I'm guessing they will be able to rewrite portions of the underlying framework (old code) without modifying existing API's. This way, nothing breaks in the meantime (at least not drastic it-takes-weeks-to-fix issues), and we don't need to wait for another 3 years while they completely rewrite the whole game from scratch. In another year or two of iterations using the new spec, I'm sure there won't be any old UI code left. They may, or may not decide to continue programming the top layer in Python, however I've been impressed they're using Python for top-layer graphics programming, I'm sure it's just fine for the top level UI scripting. And faster to write, debug and deploy too.
Avaaloniaa	Posted - 2011.05.31 18:17:00 - [64] So... Can we get bigger and/or scallable to the screen resolution fonts and buttons now, please?
Fred Kyong Caldari EWH NanoTex	Posted - 2011.05.31 19:01:00 - [65] Way to go! Next I would like to see a bar, a corporation briefing room (at the corp office maybe) to meet members. Same for a POS or Outpost. Whoohoo
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.05.31 20:44:00 - [66] What I just read there? "Hi, Im Mr. Epic and Im knocking on your computer screen. How do I look?" You look pretty awesome Mr. Epic. Welcome home.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder	Posted - 2011.05.31 21:50:00 - [67] Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand Originally by: Louis deGuerre Originally by: CCP Snorlax We considered several approaches to revamping the UI framework, but at the end of the day we realized that the EVE UI code base was far too big to consider rewriting the whole UI with some new paradigms. Whatever approach we would take for a new UI framework would have to involve minimal reworking of EVE UI code. When I read this I read the exact opposite. They changed almost nothing in the UI core. So they only changed the wallpaper, but the building is just as spooky and haunted as before I find this worrisome. If there are bottlenecks in the core code it is likely they will never get found and fixed. Read: UI Framework = thing they rewrote which does the actual rendering EVE UI = thing they left alone which tells the UI framework where to draw things So a translation: We considered several approaches to revamping the UI framework, but we realized that the code using the old framework was far too big to consider rewriting all of that as well. Whatever approach we would take for a new UI framework would have to involve minimal reworking of code that currently uses the old framework. I understand all this. This implies a badly designed EVE UI. Code not distinct etc. Which is worrisome in case they ever DO need to fix something. I understand starting over and/or rewriting is not always an option, but it usually catches up with you eventually, usually at the worst possible moment. ----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
Sorgenbinder	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:11:00 - [68] WTF has happened to PI? Without exception, the output of all my extractors has been nerfed by between 40 - 95%. One "hotspot" which was extracting 13k per hour is now extracting 600... This is crippling.
Mirwindor	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:19:00 - [69] Originally by: Sorgenbinder WTF has happened to PI? Without exception, the output of all my extractors has been nerfed by between 40 - 95%. One "hotspot" which was extracting 13k per hour is now extracting 600... This is crippling. Confirmed - PI extraction rates completely FUBAR
Brother Chang Live Once Die Twice New Edge Republic Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:03:00 - [70] Yep....same here PI F'ed in the A big time....sitting on hotspot and numbers resetting to lower amount after fiddling with extractor head. Yay for 1.6 patch.

Rasz Lin Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:25:00 - [71] so the UI coding became easier for you guys now? How about fixing Overview now? so we dont see RED planets/gates when we fight, and no double ship entries, no stuck elements, no ghost elements and so on? please?
Bellator Militaris Caldari Method of Destruction Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:34:00 - [72] Thats great, but when are you going to fix the overview? No ship color tags. Have to reload each time we jump. no greys no nothing, oh, yes i can see secure yellow secure containers in space. Bell.
Dredj Kwuan	Posted - 2011.06.01 05:22:00 - [73] Acrually, you tell there is not visual difference but there is and its AWESOME ALREADY !
Kemoc Tregarth	Posted - 2011.06.01 05:48:00 - [74] I am running the game under osx. I have a gt7300 core2 duo. I took a hit on this update I believe. The music stutters and there seem to be some jaggies that where not there before. I think it ran better before the update, for me anyhow.
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:54:00 - [75] Originally by: Kemoc Tregarth I am running the game under osx. I have a gt7300 core2 duo. I took a hit on this update I believe. The music stutters and there seem to be some jaggies that where not there before. I think it ran better before the update, for me anyhow. Anti-Aliasing got disabled somehow by this patch. That would account for the jaggies. You need to manually enable it again. --
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:00:00 - [76] I approve of this blog. Originally by: Avaaloniaa So... Can we get bigger and/or scallable to the screen resolution fonts and buttons now, please? This, really. I have a screen with high pixel density (27", 2560x1440), so I'd greatly appreciate scalable UI elements. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Avaaloniaa	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:42:00 - [77] Originally by: Aineko Macx I approve of this blog. Originally by: Avaaloniaa So... Can we get bigger and/or scallable to the screen resolution fonts and buttons now, please? This, really. I have a screen with high pixel density (27", 2560x1440), so I'd greatly appreciate scalable UI elements. Same here! I play on dual 24" screens at 3840x1200 resolution and reading anything is painful not to mention some of the buttons are super tiny and difficult to click on (for example the button that closes the current window, the information "i" button or the group/ungroup weapons button). The HUD is small as well and reading out shield/armour/hull values is nearly impossible too. Please! Can we get this addressed? There were numerous threads about this problem but none of them, I believe, was responded to by CCP Devs. Thank you in advance!
Aelita Minmatar CHON THE R0NIN	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:23:00 - [78] My experience past 1.6 is oposite in UI performance. New UI seems to be less responsible than older one. In most cases I need click more than once for same action just because my 1st click does nothing. Switching windows (focus) in UI take significantly longer and I think this is reason why 1st click does nothing. Change of shortcuts behaviour especially for combat actions like lock, approach, warp or jump/dock is pain with moving entitions in overview window. No more working action over focused and selected overview entity. So -1 for me and new carbon UI P.S. My FPS did drop on same HW from 50 to 30-35 with new patch.
PattyH	Posted - 2011.06.01 12:58:00 - [79] PI rates seem to be randomly dropped a LOT in all of the installations I've looked at so far (I have a few PI alts, have not had a chance to check all of them so far). This might be related to whatever caused the somewhat longer-than-normal downtime today. They also seem to be random on how much they will drop from a given planet, but fairly consistant ON that planet. This is seperate from the long-standing "if you do more than one edit, numbers drop AGAIN" issue. PI display will sometimes appear to "CLIP" an extractor head area against some unknown "plane" but that doesn't seem to affect the performance of that head based on it's numeric rating. This MIGHT be related somehow though, and this IS a new issue I've not seen happen before. The ESC screen option menu checkboxes ARE A LOT HARDER TO READ now. I THINK they shrank in size some, and may have a bit lower contrast too now. I almost have to put my face in my screen to read them now, when they USED to be easily readable from my normal viewing distance. It would be nice to be able to DOWNLOAD the patch during server downtime, rather than having to wait. Losing the downtime is one thing, losing the downtime AND the major additional time to download the patch (it took me almost a full DAY this time, which is normal for a 500ish meg patch via my only available ISP) AFTER the server finally comes up is far worse. There is no LOGICAL reason the patch can't be put on the MANUAL DOWNLOAD page while the servers are still down, and this would help spread the load some on your download server which would make the patch process somewhat faster for everyone else. It would have been nice to have more than 22 or so HOURS of advance notice of this large patch (I'm basing this on the date and time of the first posting that showed up in the in-game browser for this patch). This was made worse for your US customers by the fact that the notice first showed up on our first "lots of folks travel during this summer holiday weekend" AKA Memorial Day weekend - I suspect a lot of folks didn't see the notice of the patch before the extended downtime had already hit. (I only mention the US part because the US probably has more Eve players than any other country, and likely more than any other 3 countries combined if Russia isn't one of those three - it's the SHORT TIMEFRAME on the advance notice of a LARGE patch that's the major issue here).
Transfer point	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:03:00 - [80] Originally by: Mirwindor Originally by: Sorgenbinder WTF has happened to PI? Without exception, the output of all my extractors has been nerfed by between 40 - 95%. One "hotspot" which was extracting 13k per hour is now extracting 600... This is crippling. Confirmed - PI extraction rates completely FUBAR A few things: 1/ if i located one head in the white i got 312 / cycle, one head when i clicked on the check box to activate was in the yellow and was getting 1700 / cycle this is from the same ECU. 2/ Some of my CC's are now cloaked I'd recommend that people don't move any of their PI stuff until it's fixed.

Transfer point	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:11:00 - [81] Originally by: PattyH Edited by: PattyH on 01/06/2011 13:07:17 It would be nice to be able to DOWNLOAD the patch during server downtime, rather than having to wait. Losing the downtime is one thing, losing the downtime AND the major additional time to download the patch (it took me almost a full DAY this time, which is normal for a 500ish meg patch via my only available ISP) AFTER the server finally comes up is far worse. Imagine how cranky you are going to be after you spend all that time to d/l the patch only to find out you need to d/l it a second time because while they were testing it on the server to check it out they found something majorly wrong and had to modify the patch as opposed to all the other stuff which tends to get broken with each patch that they don't deem important.
WyomingKnott	Posted - 2011.06.01 15:50:00 - [82] Originally by: Transfer point Originally by: PattyH Edited by: PattyH on 01/06/2011 13:07:17 It would be nice to be able to DOWNLOAD the patch during server downtime, rather than having to wait. Losing the downtime is one thing, losing the downtime AND the major additional time to download the patch (it took me almost a full DAY this time, which is normal for a 500ish meg patch via my only available ISP) AFTER the server finally comes up is far worse. Imagine how cranky you are going to be after you spend all that time to d/l the patch only to find out you need to d/l it a second time because while they were testing it on the server to check it out they found something majorly wrong and had to modify the patch as opposed to all the other stuff which tends to get broken with each patch that they don't deem important. They already make you do that. I've been hit 3 times this year alone by having to start downloading a new large patch from scratch when I didn't finish the download of the "old large patch" before the "new large patch" was deployed which caused my download of the "old large patch" to fail without possibility of resuming it. It is bloody irritating to be 90% complete on a 1+ Gigabyte patch download only to have to redownload a new 1+ Gigabyte patch from scratch, as opposed to letting me complete the patch download of the old patch then JUST have to download a new SMALL patch that fixed whatever wasn't right in the big patch (I lost over a half week of access to Eve Online on the first Incursion patch due to this issue). Back to the thread subject. Response to mouse input in some cases is a TON slower since this patch than before. UI drawing seems to be a bit slower at times. Response to "pin" and "unpin" is DEFINITELY slower, though it's not slow enough to be an issue. It's hard to judge on some other things as they access the server and what appears to be "slow UI" might actually be "slow connection" but the FEEL of the UI since the patch seems to be slower overall. Like other folks I'm seeing horrible PI production numbers but with a lot of variation on HOW much they've dropped since this patch - it looks a lot like the "replenish resources" script didn't run during the last 2 downtimes, as the worst affected resources are the "low productivity deplete fast" ones as best as I can remember. The UI checkboxes look to be a little smaller, and have gotten fancier in a "hard to read" way, across the board. Not just in the ESC setup screen, but also in places like the market and corporate management screens. If this patch was supposed to improve performance, it has been a total failure from what I've seen so far. Ghost ships in the overview are STILL happening. I saw one on another character while I was doing their PI runingaround this morning. I suspect that's supposed to be something that gets fixed in a later patch, though.
Transfer point	Posted - 2011.06.01 16:52:00 - [83] Originally by: WyomingKnott It is bloody irritating to be 90% complete on a 1+ Gigabyte patch download only to have to redownload a new 1+ Gigabyte patch from scratch, as opposed to letting me complete the patch download of the old patch then JUST have to download a new SMALL patch that fixed whatever wasn't right in the big patch (I lost over a half week of access to Eve Online on the first Incursion patch due to this issue). You're making the assumption that they would make a small patch to update the one you were d/ling. When they swap the downloadable to the newer patch I can't see them writing a new update between the two for the few people who d/l'd the previous one. Although it's inconvenient and cuts into your play time you should just wait until the server goes back up, even then I'd give it a bit of time in case there is something wrong with it, like it deletes the boot.ini, since we know they've already done *that* once
Leovarian Lavitz Minmatar Eternal Profiteers Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.01 19:42:00 - [84] CCP Snorlax = awesome name! :D
PTM Zonic	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:26:00 - [85] please just tell me it will now be possible for you to add more font sizes.
Neo Gabriel Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.06.01 23:56:00 - [86] I just Want to demand this on my drive by post: CCP, the GPU resources your second life in space uses is pretty ridiculous. I am used to play with 3 accounts simultaneously on 3 clietn s and I do not look forward to buy a new GPU every other mont because your poorly coded and implemented rendering machine is burning out my machine. IO also am not looking forward to having to pay extra for using that much more electricity for the cooling of my rig. So either you find a way to drastically allow for lower resource usage while docked, or you better allow us to disable station environment while docked. If you do not allow players to run their clients at the same current gpu/processor load, then we will mod the game to do it for us. If you want to ban me for doing it, when i do it, then go right ahead because I wont destroy my thousands of dollars worth machine to run your second life in space. You will lose my business either way. I will not monitor your responses to this thread, but if you want to contact me, you can use my email. That is all.
Calistus Dominus	Posted - 2011.06.02 03:08:00 - [87] After this patch, my UI has become extremely sluggish. And, yes I have reset everything for optimal speed. Whenever a patch comes out, I go to Pimsu's Old Meanie and run it. The number of things in space is always a good test. And, I could barely even lock targets. I apologize, as I know how much programming effort goes into things like this, but this is a bad patch for me.
Darth Helmat	Posted - 2011.06.02 03:23:00 - [88] Originally by: Bagehi Originally by: Olivor Originally by: Don Pellegrino Originally by: Olivor Didn't you say at one point you were going to redesign the whole UI from scratch? And instead we get a little add on to make it look a bit nicer... wow Read the blog. This is just a low-level and invisible (it's a LOT faster, though) change to make further major changes possible. So, still not redesigning from scratch then, as they'll still be using the base code This is a redesign from scratch. They just rewrote the core of the UI. They rewrote it in such a way that it can still run the old, top level, code as well as be used with a bunch of shiny new stuff. If you want them to rebuild it completely, they have to start work in the basement. Now that they can render any window as a texture on any surface (if I understood the blog), its now trivial to scale any window by an arbitrary amount, yeah? So the next patch will fix the font size???
zCaldariMiner110214	Posted - 2011.06.02 15:22:00 - [89] Originally by: Transfer point Originally by: WyomingKnott It is bloody irritating to be 90% complete on a 1+ Gigabyte patch download only to have to redownload a new 1+ Gigabyte patch from scratch, as opposed to letting me complete the patch download of the old patch then JUST have to download a new SMALL patch that fixed whatever wasn't right in the big patch (I lost over a half week of access to Eve Online on the first Incursion patch due to this issue). You're making the assumption that they would make a small patch to update the one you were d/ling. When they swap the downloadable to the newer patch I can't see them writing a new update between the two for the few people who d/l'd the previous one. Although it's inconvenient and cuts into your play time you should just wait until the server goes back up, even then I'd give it a bit of time in case there is something wrong with it, like it deletes the boot.ini, since we know they've already done *that* once CCP DOES make a "small patch" as a normal thing, as many or most folks that play Eve seem to have fast enough connections to download a Gig patch in an hour or two while the "new patch" generally doesn't show up for a DAY or two. Sometimes longer (I'm expecting a 'patch to fix THIS patch any day now, am a bit unhappy it's taking them THIS long to figure out how to fix the PI stuff they broke, the other issues I've seen so far have been minor). Two more bugs I've noticed. (1) MAJOR CRITICAL BUG. I have one world that flat out will not display the Resource Control Units or the Launchpad. PERIOD. I've tried hardware rebooting the machine, I've tried 2 other machines, don't matter. I can see the resource HEADS (including 2 that are "clipped", I can see ONE of the 3 factories on that world, but the launchpad and both of the Resource Control Unit things just flat out AREN'T THERE (and the other 2 factories aren't either, but since I don't need to adjust those it's a less critical issue as long as they're actually WORKING but just graphically missing). This makes it IMPOSSIBLE to update the resources, which means this world is going to be offline for me - I can't access the disappeared facilities, but they're still there taking up resources and there is no way to remove them when the entire icon for the things are not THERE and there is no "alternate access" method to get TO them as far as I've been able to find. Yes, I filed a bug report petition over this one. No, it doesn't seem to be a COMMON issue - but it's yet another indication that CCP did something serious in this patch FUBAR planetary interaction. (2) Mouse-over of the wallet gives completely different number from opening the wallet and looking at the info there, at least part of the time. Irritating but not critical. And as it happens I'd never heard of one of their patch deleting boot.ini - mabey 'cause I make a point of NOT running in ADMIN to make it a lot harder for Joe Random Program to do that sort of thing accidentally.
zCaldariMiner110214	Posted - 2011.06.02 15:33:00 - [90] Originally by: Neo Gabriel I just Want to demand this on my drive by post: CCP, the GPU resources your second life in space uses is pretty ridiculous. I am used to play with 3 accounts simultaneously on 3 clietn s and I do not look forward to buy a new GPU every other mont because your poorly coded and implemented rendering machine is burning out my machine. IO also am not looking forward to having to pay extra for using that much more electricity for the cooling of my rig. So either you find a way to drastically allow for lower resource usage while docked, or you better allow us to disable station environment while docked. If you do not allow players to run their clients at the same current gpu/processor load, then we will mod the game to do it for us. If you want to ban me for doing it, when i do it, then go right ahead because I wont destroy my thousands of dollars worth machine to run your second life in space. You will lose my business either way. I will not monitor your responses to this thread, but if you want to contact me, you can use my email. That is all. If you run on low settings, the GPU requirements to run Eve are QUITE LOW. Comparable to that WoW thing. A hair lighter than Everquest. A LOT lighter than many current non-MMORG games. Eve will run tolerably well on a current ENTRY LEVEL MACHINE WITH ONBOARD GRAPHICS like any AMD Athlon/Semperon with the 740G or higher chipsets (Netbooks are not "entry level", they're "able to to run minimal stuff for super cheap" IMO - though I've seen reports that Eve runs tolerably well on the NVidia Atom with a fast-enough CPU and enough RAM). For reference, Eve runs reasonably well at low settings on old Nvidia 6100/6150 onboard graphic machines with 1 Gig ram and a Semperon (I use a couple of those machines for my researcher alts when they make their monthlyish "run around all over to grab datacores and stick them in the corp hanger for my main to collect later" runs). The performance of the GPU in those machines is WAY below the current "entry level", you almost can't GET that low of graphics performance any more outside of netbooks and MABEY Intel "Extreme(ly slow) Graphics" junk that NO gamer would ever seriously look at. Eve is only seriously GPU intensive when you turn the graphic settings way up, or somewhat in the New Lag Creator system they call the new character creator. You, Neo, fail as a troll. 8-P

Latex Sandals	Posted - 2011.06.02 17:01:00 - [91] so much for an invisible - back-end - patch. when are you guys going to hire a real QA dept?
Jimmy Causey	Posted - 2011.06.02 21:39:00 - [92] ive been having a ton of trouble seems like every time i undock or jump threw a gate my display drivers dies or my whole computer crashes. before this stupid patch i could run eve on high-medium settings but with every thing on low its been a pain just to play.
Amos D Gardener	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:02:00 - [93] Great! new UI! Great! ... now if only we could get Eve design people to look at other spaceship/flight/combat games out there and see what an F-16 cockpit looks like instead of a half-blind linux programmers inept attempts at making a spreadsheet layout try to look like a cockpit/HUD we might be getting somewhere. Go to an air-force base and look inside the planes! they don't look like a spreadsheet layout! They look cool and sophisticated and are fun to be sitting in... not a burnout linux reprogrammer's fantasy of a hot friday night with 3 spreadsheet windows open at once... look at a B-1 Bomber cockpit, and if you're still too cheep to take a trip to a real plane and look, take a trip to wal-mart and look at the airplane magazines... they have pictures of a real pilot interface! You don't even have to pay $1.95 to do real research, you can just read it in the store...
Vuiko Tarasovich	Posted - 2011.06.03 19:46:00 - [94] Originally by: Amos D Gardener Great! new UI! Great! ... now if only we could get Eve design people to look at other spaceship/flight/combat games out there and see what an F-16 cockpit looks like instead of a half-blind linux programmers inept attempts at making a spreadsheet layout try to look like a cockpit/HUD we might be getting somewhere. Go to an air-force base and look inside the planes! they don't look like a spreadsheet layout! They look cool and sophisticated and are fun to be sitting in... not a burnout linux reprogrammer's fantasy of a hot friday night with 3 spreadsheet windows open at once... look at a B-1 Bomber cockpit, and if you're still too cheep to take a trip to a real plane and look, take a trip to wal-mart and look at the airplane magazines... they have pictures of a real pilot interface! You don't even have to pay $1.95 to do real research, you can just read it in the store... I wish they were linux programmers, then maybe I wouldn't have to run under wine. You want your game to look like other spaceship games out there? go play those games. Also you never see the cockpit of your ship at all in eve, and if you did then you'd miss most of the action on account of not being able to see anything behind you. As for spreadsheets, those really come up in the market where spreadsheets MAKE SENSE. I know obvious troll is obvious, but someone who doesn't know eve might stumble upon this thread and get the wrong idea :^\|
Trelborne	Posted - 2011.06.03 20:40:00 - [95] Great post. I'm a programmer myself who occasionally has to descend into 3D gfx programming (OpenGL), so its interesting to read the about the Eve implementation. Keep up the nerdy posts :-)
zCaldariMiner110214	Posted - 2011.06.04 06:57:00 - [96] June 3 "fixes" and client update did NOT fix all of the PI issues. I STILL have the same world where I can't even see my extraction control units, much less update them. I STILL see the "clipping" issue on extraction heads. It looks like the ONLY issue that was addressed was the "production numbers" issue, which is a positive step in the right direction BUT IS NOT NEARLY CLOSE TO "A FIX FOR THE PI ISSUES" as a whole as it only addressed ONE of those issues.
Sophia Tam	Posted - 2011.06.04 17:47:00 - [97] Originally by: Amos D Gardener Great! new UI! Great! ... now if only we could get Eve design people to look at other spaceship/flight/combat games out there and see what an F-16 cockpit looks like instead of a half-blind linux programmers inept attempts at making a spreadsheet layout try to look like a cockpit/HUD we might be getting somewhere. Go to an air-force base and look inside the planes! they don't look like a spreadsheet layout! They look cool and sophisticated and are fun to be sitting in... not a burnout linux reprogrammer's fantasy of a hot friday night with 3 spreadsheet windows open at once... look at a B-1 Bomber cockpit, and if you're still too cheep to take a trip to a real plane and look, take a trip to wal-mart and look at the airplane magazines... they have pictures of a real pilot interface! You don't even have to pay $1.95 to do real research, you can just read it in the store... Maybe because it's like, 2000 years in the future, eh Kinda progressed past that. If you want to play a game with a "real cockpit" and "real pilot interface"...go play a flight sim. It's not like there aren't lots out there.
PhyveOh	Posted - 2011.06.04 23:38:00 - [98] Firstly I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this message as I am not sure as to where it should go. I am having major problems installing the new update 259851->264377. I keep getting an error saying that a file is broken, but when it tries to repair I get: Output folder: C:\Users\**\AppData\Local\Temp\nse94C3.tmp Extract: 7z.dll... 100% Extract: patchw32.dll... 100% Current version 259851 Output folder: G:\Games\EVE Update file found, verifying checksum... Checksum failed, retry Execute: "C:\Users\\AppData\Local\Temp\nse94C3.tmp\repair.exe" "--repair_file=C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\Downloads\EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851-6.45.264377.7z" "--url=http://content.eveonline.com/EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851-6.45.264377.7z" --autoclose Update file found, verifying checksum... Checksum failed, retry Create folder: C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\Downloads Step 1/3: Downloading Downloading of EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851-6.45.264377.7z to C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\Downloads\EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851-6.45.264377.7z done Step 2/3: Verifying Files Execute: "C:\Users\**\AppData\Local\Temp\nse94C3.tmp\repair.exe" "--repair_file=C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\Downloads\EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851-6.45.264377.7z" "--url=http://content.eveonline.com/EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851-6.45.264377.7z" --autoclose Sorting out what needs to be downloaded, please wait... Traceback (most recent call last): File "repairTool\progressPanel.pyc", line 97, in _TaskRun File "repairTool\repairUI.pyc", line 77, in Start File "repairTool\repairLogic.pyc", line 147, in Repair File "repairTool\repairLogic.pyc", line 187, in Restore File "zsync\zsync.pyc", line 151, in RestoreFile ValueError: too many values to unpack Total Runtime: 0h00m42s Please help as I cannot log in and play Thanks Original Error reads: EVEPREMIUM.6.44.259851 - 6.45.264377.7z is broken do u wish to have the repair tool attempt to fix it....then the fix error???
Alvia Div	Posted - 2011.06.05 01:14:00 - [99] Originally by: Amos D Gardener stuff You're in a pod, everything's hooked to your brain, there is no cockpit, do yourself a favor and buy a flight sim.
Liise Maturin Amarr Akomu Aoshi	Posted - 2011.06.05 07:43:00 - [100] Originally by: PhyveOh Firstly I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this message as I am not sure as to where it should go. ?? Try a petition...sidebar on the left and select EVE Support then Create New Petition and choose one for techinical issues or some such. Posting in this thread won't help you.

jumper1	Posted - 2011.06.06 04:18:00 - [101] Wow did you guys really screw up bookmarks or what? Constantly moving around, sometimes up to 2 AU away from it's original position. Can't select a bm when looking at the solar system map view - what moronic genius did this one???? You really screwed with those that choose to explore wormholes and need to create safe spots in 0.0. Are you intentionally trying to screw us? How about fixing it. Duh. Oh and thanks for the crappier UI - gotta love the pretty hello-kitty-pink color of the capacitor status. FYI - try looking thru it directly at the sun - it disappears. Nice job pinheads.
DHuncan	Posted - 2011.06.06 16:12:00 - [102] Originally by: jumper1 Wow did you guys really screw up bookmarks or what? Constantly moving around, sometimes up to 2 AU away from it's original position. Can't select a bm when looking at the solar system map view - what moronic genius did this one???? You really screwed with those that choose to explore wormholes and need to create safe spots in 0.0. Are you intentionally trying to screw us? How about fixing it. Duh. Oh and thanks for the crappier UI - gotta love the pretty hello-kitty-pink color of the capacitor status. FYI - try looking thru it directly at the sun - it disappears. Nice job pinheads. Oh well the 21st this will turn into the sims in the space so the hello kitty fashion youll have to get used to.
Admiral Tolwyn	Posted - 2011.06.07 12:25:00 - [103] Come one! Stop whining! Carbon is great! Carbon is cool, it's easier for the devs, it is flexible and it's buggy. And now it's the back of the EVE Client! Welcome to the future. I hope CCP spend more time for the QA next time. If not even the dev won't know if the bug comes from a new feature or the new feature running on carbon.
Tilith Tak'ha	Posted - 2011.06.08 21:11:00 - [104] Hi there. Not sure if this is the right place to report this, but my Legion is flying backwards. The guns are pointing backwards aswell . Just to let you know.
Sethose Olderon	Posted - 2011.06.14 11:24:00 - [105] I'm happy to see that CCP is making progress towards a new UI, however I'm not impressed with this current iteration. I hope more improvements are in the pipeline. I think the direction should be moving more towards what was presented in the Dust Trailer from E3. Alliance Owned Stargates
Donna Blitzenn Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2011.06.17 12:43:00 - [106] So does this mean you'll be fixing the longstanding bugginess of the overview (especially target broadcast glitches) and its general slowness to update even in situations without lots of objects to filter out and/or list?


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