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Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:10:00 - [1] As it been announced Aurums are coming. (1 PLEX = XXX Aurums). PLEXes nowadays are mainly used to "play for free" or "play for ISK", or "I have loads of RL money and i want ISK to play Internet spaceships BIG". In this case one hand washes the other. The RL "poor" player needs to spend some game time doing "EVE work" (mine, gas, rat, etc) to make ISK to pay for PLEX and to pay for some ships to play with. The RL "rich" player can't be bothered with the "EVE work" (mine,gas,rat,etc) so he converts RL money directly to ISK. Somewhere there is a balance that keeps PLEX at a certain ISK price, BUT that balance is about to shift. As you might notice PLEX price as risen and it will continue to rise this is a possible outcome scenario: -"Poor" players start leaving EVE because the amount of "EVE work" to buy a PLEX is simply too much to enjoy the game, some will simply change back to monthly fee. But many will surely leave EVE. -As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more. Eventually hordes of players will start to leave or changing to a subscription fee (those who can), the ones who can't will leave making EVE "smaller" by big numbers in a short/medium period of time. CCP needs to be ready for this. Ready to lose thousands of players who "play for free", and the PLEX market won't correct it self in time to have them return. This won't be the end of EVE-Online, but it will be weaken seriously by it. The question is: Is CCP considering this possible outcome of being tampering with the PLEX system beyond it's original design? Because you (CCP) know that the player numbers you have right now, you owe it in part to "free play" players created by the PLEX. If the PLEX system "dies" by overgrowing beyond its possibilities, a part of EVE's player base will "die" too. _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) Aelius 2011 Candidacy Guide Lines
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:29:00 - [2] Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games and those that simply refuses to fork out cash are just being cheap. For those who can afford it, but other payment methods are not accessible, I feel for you. Other then that, I don't see a problem with increasing PLEX prices. Edit - As for increasing PLEX prices, yea it'll probably affect subscriptions, but I'd suspect most of them would be Alt accounts anyway.
Kronir	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:31:00 - [3] I too am wondering about this. Unfortunatly the topic has been derailed by people talking about micro-transactions, which is a side-issue - but not really the issue itself (as such). I foresee trouble with PLEX. Unless CCP have planned for PLEX price increases. I'm not sure what is going on really. PI has tanked in value, minerals aren't what they used to be. It seems to me that the value of ISK has been devalued greatly...and quite intentionally...
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Kronir I foresee trouble with PLEX. Unless CCP have planned for PLEX price increases. They stated in a few places that they will deal with the plex market if it gets out of control, didn't say how though. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Kronir	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Barakkus They stated in a few places that they will deal with the plex market if it gets out of control, didn't say how though. I noticed that. Though it depends on their defintion of 'out of control'. It may be very different to the players definition.
Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:42:00 - [6] You know, there was a time when the PLEX system did not exist, yet many "poor" players played and their numbers grew. You should think about that. ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:46:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Zulu My PLEX prices! If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.
Kronir	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:47:00 - [8] Yeah - but those times aren't now. Things change, sometimes for the good sometimes not. I have faith in CCP they have done good by Eve all these years. But there is a massive shift in the game market that is about to occur. My question is this; how much of it is a natural player driven shift, had how much of it is social engineering on CCPs part?
Terghon Tu Amarr DarkNet Node Fanaticus	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:49:00 - [9] Actually, Aurum could lower PLEX prices. Remember, you cannot buy one PLEX for real money; you buy a GTC which gives you two PLEX. So, if people with real money buy GTC for PLEX, convert one PLEX to Aurum for clothes and put the other on the market the supply could increase, dropping the price. I'm not expecting that, but it is a reasonable possibility. ---------- The right to do something doesn't make doing it right.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games . Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting. Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Kronir Yeah - but those times aren't now. Things change, sometimes for the good sometimes not. I have faith in CCP they have done good by Eve all these years. But there is a massive shift in the game market that is about to occur. My question is this; how much of it is a natural player driven shift, had how much of it is social engineering on CCPs part? I think you worry too much. If nothing extreme were to happen, PLEX prices pretty much balances itself. If PLEX prices goes up, wouldn't it encourage more people start buying ISK through PLEX?
Alexandra Delarge The Korova	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:57:00 - [12] Dollah Dollah Bill Ya'll!
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:59:00 - [13] Edited by: heheheh on 01/06/2011 ^ ya, cash rules everthing around me. I earn enough to pay for several accounts, but if i can play a game for free without having to use my hard earned pennies i will.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:00:00 - [14] I hope plex prices hit 1b isk Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
MysteryZ	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:04:00 - [15] What can CCP do about it without hurting their own profits? They can't seed plex on the market - every person who bought one from them would be costing them $15. The only accounts CCP needs to worry about being cancelled are the ones actually paying to play - and right now, the market is in their favour because with PLEX prices on the increase, it means more ISK in the hands of their paying customers. The accounts that use PLEX to play inflate the PLEX prices, should some of them cancel - then thats good for the PLEX players because demand will fall, and PLEX prices with them.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Rico Minali Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games . Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting. Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy... Let's assume you are paid a decent amount doing a decent job all you need is 1 hour more a week to pay for 2 accounts, 4 hours a month as compared to how many hours you require to grind the ISK? Also a 42 hours work week is really average, when I started working, most companies operated on 5.5 days work week, thats 44 hours a week and its normal.
Sandwich PvP Furian Necromongers	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Rico Minali Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games . Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting. Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy... Yes, but you aren't a paying CCP customer, so why would they care about your situation?
Orlacc	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:38:00 - [18] PLEX is going way up because of speculation. It will come back down, but probably after Incarana. In fact I wager it will drop dramatically.
Doc Fury Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:43:00 - [19] How exactly would CCP meddling with the in-game price of PLEX be good for our "sandbox" and the "player driven economy"? Even though they have vaguely danced around the term "equilibrium" CCP getting involved beyond monitoring and reporting "Hey guys PLEX prices are through the roof now!" kind of contradicts their policy on non-intervention. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:50:00 - [20] It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
StillBorn CrackBaby	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:50:00 - [21] Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out...
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:52:00 - [22] As I've explained in my normal talk-about-most-possible-sides-of-an issue-before-drawing-partial-conclusions sort of way: I think that they know that their maximum revenue and highest average customer satisfaction comes with a plex price in the 300 to 400 million isk range...probably closes to the middle today...that might have been 320 milion ideal a year ago (jarring spike though with the apochrapha expansion)300 miliion 2 years ago.. and maybe will be 385 next year (and there should be a swing 25 million either way of the center price to keep things interesting imo, but others might argue with that). Too high, and they probably might actually sell less as many people meet their needs selling fewer plex(especially those makeing huge purchases), outweighing slightly the extra buyers because of the better deal. To low, and they lose revenue and let the fire of the RMT spark up as the time to dollar ratio of the RMT becomes more attractive...and they can offer a greater differential between legitimate plex sales and still do so very profitably. They are in a slight bind becaue it makes sense to give all players a chance at buying the items that they're moving to micro transactions for... it makes those itemes availbe to those that grind or scam or pirate in addition to those using $. As they've been complaining about needing more isk sinks, especially to entice isk away from isk rich players, I'd think that a direct sale of goods by npcs at a fixed isk price alternative would be more useful than the aurum model. Ideally they'd mix and match with some items aurum only and some isk only to allow them to fine tune the plex rate balance while still having their isk sink.
Mr Dilkington	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Mr Dilkington on 01/06/2011 00:53:53 Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out... What about if you had a business where people pay for services for other people ? because thats is what is happening here,
Poetic Stanziel	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:00:00 - [24] PLEX prices will self-correct. If prices are rising, it likely means more players are entering the game, thus the demand for PLEX has risen. As the price rises, these so-called "rich" players will buy more PLEX hoping to make more ISK than is usual. As more PLEX enters the market, the supply will grow and prices will fall. PLEX, like any commodity, rise and falls, and is cyclical in nature.
raney ilara	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:01:00 - [25] I can understand that the banning of thousands of bots might have something to do with a drop in the demand for plex on the eve market..but this makes no sense; shouldn't that be reducing the price of plex? Unless someone is seriously gaming the system, what could be driving prices. Summer vacation hasn't even started yet. Maybe all the former botters have taken their ill gotten gain and are buying up plex for resale since they can't mine anymore.
Poetic Stanziel	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:03:00 - [26] Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out... Someone doesn't understand how PLEX works. No one plays for "free". Every PLEX was paid for by someone. CCP loses no money in the whole scheme. It was a genius implementation on their part.
Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I hope plex prices hit 1b isk I'll bet you do.
nubile slave	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Ranger 1 It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. Clearly you don't understand the addiction. Addicts will pay any price. I'm thinking we have a lot of addicts in this game.
Surprise Cockfags	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 01/06/2011 00:13:20 Originally by: Rico Minali Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games . Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting. Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy... Let's assume you are paid a decent amount doing a decent job all you need is 1 hour more a week to pay for 2 accounts, 4 hours a month as compared to how many hours you require to grind the ISK? Also a 42 hours work week is really average, when I started working, most companies operated on 5.5 days work week, thats 44 hours a week and its normal. Anyway I didn't say those who can't afford were lazy or jobless, I just said they shouldn't be spending time on games and implying that they should get their priorities straighten out. Which is more important, feeding the kids or internet spaceships? Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight? You're a prime example of what is wrong with the culture in this game. It's full of self-righteous, self-centered, egotistical pricks like yourself. Get off your horse and come back to reality.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Aelius As it been announced Aurums are coming. (1 PLEX = XXX Aurums). PLEXes nowadays are mainly used to "play for free" or "play for ISK", or "I have loads of RL money and i want ISK to play Internet spaceships BIG". In this case one hand washes the other. The RL "poor" player needs to spend some game time doing "EVE work" (mine, gas, rat, etc) to make ISK to pay for PLEX and to pay for some ships to play with. The RL "rich" player can't be bothered with the "EVE work" (mine,gas,rat,etc) so he converts RL money directly to ISK. Somewhere there is a balance that keeps PLEX at a certain ISK price, BUT that balance is about to shift. As you might notice PLEX price as risen and it will continue to rise this is a possible outcome scenario: -"Poor" players start leaving EVE because the amount of "EVE work" to buy a PLEX is simply too much to enjoy the game, some will simply change back to monthly fee. But many will surely leave EVE. -As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more. Eventually hordes of players will start to leave or changing to a subscription fee (those who can), the ones who can't will leave making EVE "smaller" by big numbers in a short/medium period of time. CCP needs to be ready for this. Ready to lose thousands of players who "play for free", and the PLEX market won't correct it self in time to have them return. This won't be the end of EVE-Online, but it will be weaken seriously by it. The question is: Is CCP considering this possible outcome of being tampering with the PLEX system beyond it's original design? Because you (CCP) know that the player numbers you have right now, you owe it in part to "free play" players created by the PLEX. If the PLEX system "dies" by overgrowing beyond its possibilities, a part of EVE's player base will "die" too. This does not apply to everyone, "Eve work" as you put it, is "having fun playing a game" for alot of people.
Poetic Stanziel	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:31:00 - [31] What are Aurums? Link?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Surprise *****s Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight? Nope, if money is that tight you should be working your ass off to make ends meet, not be playing internet spaceships Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Mr Dilkington	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:34:00 - [33] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Nope, if money is that tight you should be working your ass off to make ends meet, not be playing internet spaceships Why ? becuase you say so ? money is always tight for me but i would rather not waste my life working.
Surprise Cockfags	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:36:00 - [34] So someone cant play eve for an hour or two each day after spending 3 hours in classes then spending 8 hours doing homework? what are you? One of those communist Chinese isk farmers?
Nypheas Azurai	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:45:00 - [35] No one can dictate to you what your priorities are in life, and likewise don't expect to dictate to everyone else what the priorities of PLEX should be because you can't afford it. Switch to subs, or go boohoo elsewhere. Perhaps try your local Korean F2P MMO. --------------------
Surprise Cockfags	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:50:00 - [36] Haha, didn't realize going to college was such a bad priority. Proof again of everything I've said.
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:54:00 - [37] How many times does this need to be said? CCP isn't raising the isk price of PLEX. Our fellow players are. Players with large amounts of isk are hoarding PLEX, speculating the price will rise. It's a "bubble." There are too many PLEX in-game, but not enough on the market. The beauty of hoarding PLEX is that, worst case, you have 30days game time per PLEX if the market tanks. AUR will suck PLEX (aka gametime liability) out of the game. The last thing CCP should do is inject more PLEX into the system. Maybe PLEX needs an expiration date / lifespan.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.06.01 01:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Ranger 1 It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. The (potnential) problem is that if the demand curve starts to slope down after a certain point as the value is so good buyers isk needs are met buying fewer plex, the settling price of supply and demand could be 10 or 15% less than the maximum that could be sold (hence less ccp revenue). In addition to less revenue, there would be a few other less than optimum game balancing and marketing negatives. Of course, some of that is subjective and I do use the word "if" but that is my opinion with the limited information I can use to make a guess from.
Viule Sawyr	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:04:00 - [39] Edited by: Viule Sawyr on 01/06/2011 02:06:54 High plex prices mean alt accounts get shut down. I don't think there are many that would completely stop playing, just because of high plex prices they would simply just stop using "extra" accounts. It becomes a matter of is it worth playing 400+ mil ISK to feed an alt account or would you rather use that 400mil on shinny stuff for your main. Yea I could easily pay for alts with RL ISKies but up til now it's been easy enough to make the ISK to cover extra accounts. For now I'm just gonna sub 2 accounts for 3 months with RL ISK and see where the plex's go from there. Having more than 2 accounts is not worth an extra $15 or 400 mil ISK to me so essentially high plex price = less accounts simple as that. If prices come back down again I'll re open the other accounts via plex if not I'll just keep my 2 mains open via RL funds. Currently there is speculation of wide usage of plexes with the new change, yet what isn't added to that speculation is the 100s if not thousands of alt accounts that are closing and will no longer be using those plexes. I'm sure once that starts to sink in, the prices will go back to a reasonable realm.
Darth McDarth	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Surprise *****s Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight? I'm a college student living on loans and work, and I can easily afford to keep 2 accounts running. If you're a college student and don't have a couple hundred dollars a month disposable income, you're doing something wrong.
Yulith Luss'Ferus	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Darth McDarth Originally by: Surprise *****s Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight? I'm a college student living on loans and work, and I can easily afford to keep 2 accounts running. If you're a college student and don't have a couple hundred dollars a month disposable income, you're doing something wrong. Felt the need to provide my experience from both sides. When I was a college student (undergrad) with barely a dime to my name, I didn't play MMOs - plain and simple, I worked and did activities that didn't have monthly upkeeps. You know, hang out with friends, watch movies, hell I met my wife too. If you seriously can't afford $15/month then do either 1) figure out a way to earn $15 more a month (cut costs or pick up a 1 day a week job at a grocery store or something), or 2) Don't play P2P MMOs. Simple. What did I do? I spread the word that I was a math tutor. Eventually I found a client in a rich town who offered me $80/hr 1 hr a week for 1 semester. That's all I needed. Sure, that's uncommon, but all you need is $15 - I'm sure you can honestly find a way to find $15 if you want to play EVE every month if you don't want to ISK it up for PLEX. Unplug your appliances when you're not using them, I bet you'll save almost $15/month in electricity off the microwave alone.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Surprise *****s Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight? I'm sorry if working 4 hours a month to pay for 2 accounts is too hard for you, but wouldn't you be spending more then 4 hours to grind the necessary ISK to pay for the PLEX? Get your priorities straight, playing any games is a luxury, not a birth right. Especially if you are tight on $.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Mr Dilkington Why ? becuase you say so ? money is always tight for me but i would rather not waste my life working. If you don't wana waste your life working thats fine, but don't come crying that you can't afford $15 a month on games.
Harisdrop Gallente Vindicate and Deliverance	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:46:00 - [44] How did EvE ever leave 2003 there where no plex's then...
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:56:00 - [45] Originally by: Harisdrop How did EvE ever leave 2003 there where no plex's then... There were no PLEXES for a LOOONG time after that as well. People did buy GTC's but the entire system was sloppy in how those transactions were handled. Mainly CCP kept their hands out of it. There were however scams left and right involving GTC.
Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.06.01 02:57:00 - [46] Also CCP said lot of players are hoarding PLEX for no other purpouse than keep them cheap or resell if prices rise so there can be a nice reduction in price this week if ppl start dropping those too.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:01:00 - [47] Originally by: nubile slave Originally by: Ranger 1 It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. Clearly you don't understand the addiction. Addicts will pay any price. I'm thinking we have a lot of addicts in this game. Heh, well then it isn't a problem anyway is it. Time to sell your room mates virtual stereo to get your fix. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:03:00 - [48] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: nubile slave Originally by: Ranger 1 It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. Clearly you don't understand the addiction. Addicts will pay any price. I'm thinking we have a lot of addicts in this game. Heh, well then it isn't a problem anyway is it. Time to sell your room mates virtual stereo to get your fix. 5 dollah!
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: nubile slave Originally by: Ranger 1 It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. Clearly you don't understand the addiction. Addicts will pay any price. I'm thinking we have a lot of addicts in this game. Heh, well then it isn't a problem anyway is it. Time to sell your room mates virtual stereo to get your fix. LOL Sold my roommate's kidney (or was it kidneys? Either way, it's a PLEX per) this afternoon. I'm sleeping in the car tonight to make sure the repo men get the right guy.
Skydell Caldari Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:38:00 - [50] Your fears are unfounded and your paranoia makes people giggle. You can convert Aurum to Plex too.
Ami Nia	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Skydell Your fears are unfounded and your paranoia makes people giggle. You can convert Aurum to Plex too. Unless they changed something today, no you cannot. -- And then there's of course the thing with it getting FPS even slower than the character creator, heating up video cards, taking a noticeable time to fully load ...
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:56:00 - [52] Solution: $10 PLEX
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2011.06.01 03:57:00 - [53] I remember the good 'ol days when a 90 day GTC cost 270-300m ISK. The ISK faucets greatly outnumber the ISK sinks, only way PLEX prices are going up. There may be bubbles and bursts, but in the long term unless CCP changes something drastically, buy em if you're in no rush for immediate returns.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:01:00 - [54] Something which seems to get skipped in every PLEX debate is... CCP already control supply level. Occasionally resellers will say "We don't have any more to sell for the month until CCP give us more"
Jozar Bohman	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:02:00 - [55] Edited by: Jozar Bohman on 01/06/2011 04:03:16 Originally by: Surprise *****s Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight? No they don't have their priorities straight, they should be studying and looking for a job... not play internet space games that they can't afford. Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out... You are wrong on this point, CCP should care about this, because the more the user base any game has, the more fun this game is (in theory). This is an MMO.. massively multiplayer. The whole idea behind F2P and microtransactions is that 90% of the players who don't pay, provide gameplay/fun for thet 10% of the players, that make them want to pay to play the game. By losing free-to-play players, there's a danger that any mmo company loses their paying customers as well. Of course CCP knows this already.. this is their business after all. I'm confident they will take whatever corrective measure to keep the user base. I'm confident they can fix it should they chose to. Originally by: heheheh I earn enough to pay for several accounts, but if i can play a game for free without having to use my hard earned pennies i will. I'm with this guy, what's wrong with being a cheap bastard anyways? I make more than enough to pay for this game, but I'll still use plex to pay for it, if I make enough of it. A penny saved is a penny earned. Being frugal is a virtue... then again rises plex prices won't keep me up at night. Worst case i don't play this game and find something else fun to do.
Skydell Caldari Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Ami Nia Originally by: Skydell Your fears are unfounded and your paranoia makes people giggle. You can convert Aurum to Plex too. Unless they changed something today, no you cannot. Server isnt up right now or I'd get a screen shot of the Aurum store. And the Arum to GTC button
Nishachara Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:05:00 - [57] I play by PLEX...if prices rise more... ..well its not the end of the world... Subscription costs the same ammount that i spend on one weekend going out... and i have very little income (student ..etc)... But some players that cant pay will leave the game... ...and also players that have no time for grinding isk and get it via PLEX will find harder and harder to sell their PLEX-es coz they will be to expensive... and subsequently they will leave eve to coz they have no time for grinding isk and cant wait for a month + to sell their PLEX-es. If the PLEX prices continue to rise that is...
Antihrist Pripravnik	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:10:00 - [58] Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 01/06/2011 04:15:28 First of all, I mainly use PLEX to get the game time. It's not that I don't have $$$ , but I'm in a period of my life where I need every cent I can get to invest in my RL small programming company. That's also the reason why I can't play much to get the ISK and mainly playing these days to relax when it's raining outside, or when it's too hot. With PLEX prices rising constantly + anomaly nerf, I was forced out of 0.0 space and all the in-game friends that I have because it became impossible to play the game, pay for PLEX with ISK and enjoy the game at the same time, while not spending time that I don't have in the game. This will change for me when my company starts working full-time and there's no more need for big investments (of time or money). However, there are players living in different parts of the world that can't change their situation as easily as I can, or high-school students, college students, or just people that can live with the amount of money they are making, like to play games but would like to use PLEX because the additional $15 per account will simply not fit in their budget. My personal experience (when looking at the amount of time I have to play and the amount of ISK I can get) is that: - 300 mil for PLEX is a good price for all those people listed above, but somewhat too low for those that are selling PLEX to get the ISK. - 350 mil for PLEX is an OK price for those paying with PLEX and OK price for those selling it for ISK - 400 mil forces you out of PvP, while those selling get a good deal for their money - 400-450 mil moves you out of 0.0 space, but it's fantastic for those selling - 450+ mil forces you to grind during all the time you can get to play the game just for the sake of getting the ISK to pay for PLEX. Someone who temporarily needs to pay with PLEX but have the means to switch to cash based subscription can survive it for a while, but not forever. Also, the system like this will eventually become pointless for those that play this way and they will lose the interest in the game. - 500 mil for PLEX is game over
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:13:00 - [59] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Originally by: Ranger 1 It will find it's own balance. If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower. It is a self-correcting situation. The (potnential) problem is that if the demand curve starts to slope down after a certain point as the value is so good buyers isk needs are met buying fewer plex, the settling price of supply and demand could be 10 or 15% less than the maximum that could be sold (hence less ccp revenue). In addition to less revenue, there would be a few other less than optimum game balancing and marketing negatives. Of course, some of that is subjective and I do use the word "if" but that is my opinion with the limited information I can use to make a guess from. If the ISK price of PLEX goes too low, fewer are purchased for ISK resale. When fewer are available for ISK purchase, the demand (and ISK price) begins to rise. As I said, it is self balancing. Sure, there will be peaks and dips in the ISK price of a PLEX, but that's what keeps things interesting and competitive. Now granted, people could spend a lot of ISK to buy up PLEX to hoard and artificially drive the prices up. But if they go too far with this (as some large entities and a few individuals have the resources to do) and start to damage the game economy (as well as place hardship on individual players) CCP has reserved the right to intervene. Likely this means that they if they find evidence of this they will inject more PLEX into the system. This would raise availability, drive prices down, and the people hoarding them would take a huge loss (and learn a valuable lesson in economic warfare). In reality, just the fact that CCP has left this option open should be more than enough deterrent to ensure that the situation never arises. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Herring Caldari Pimpology	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Kronir I foresee trouble with PLEX. Unless CCP have planned for PLEX price increases. They stated in a few places that they will deal with the plex market if it gets out of control, didn't say how though. Sounds like classic Bernanke babble to me
Jozar Bohman	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Herring Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Kronir I foresee trouble with PLEX. Unless CCP have planned for PLEX price increases. They stated in a few places that they will deal with the plex market if it gets out of control, didn't say how though. Sounds like classic Bernanke babble to me lol, well eve is a fiat currency system.. actually it's a fiat universe... So i'm sure CCP can control whatever they want and fix whatever they want even easier than Bernake can.
xavier69 Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:28:00 - [62] Droves leaving eve because earning plex became to much of a pain in the ass WTF are you talking about that happened when they released PI Who the fuk wanted to do all that on top of invention and manf to make enough for a few plexes I saw the major player drop after PI release even the recent changes to PI really havenÆt made that system anything less than cutting out your eyes with a spoon Pretty sure EVE hit rock bottom a while ago why they are so focus on carebearism 90% of the hardcore players gave CCP the finger and rolled about a year ago cause 0.0 folks care about avatars and incursions... XOXOXOXO
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:32:00 - [63] Originally by: xavier69 Droves leaving eve because earning plex became to much of a pain in the ass WTF are you talking about that happened when they released PI Who the fuk wanted to do all that on top of invention and manf to make enough for a few plexes I saw the major player drop after PI release even the recent changes to PI really havenÆt made that system anything less than cutting out your eyes with a spoon Pretty sure EVE hit rock bottom a while ago why they are so focus on carebearism 90% of the hardcore players gave CCP the finger and rolled about a year ago cause 0.0 folks care about avatars and incursions... Confirming EVE is dying... still... ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
BLACK-STAR	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:38:00 - [64] PLEX HOARDERS: GTFO ppl need them and they have this thought... the other day someone posted "HEY if I buy PLEX I'm going to resell it for more to profit myself" ppl that want to actually use PLEX are paying ~200m additionally nowadays and its steadily rising (ridiculous). It's going to choke the community. PLEX needs expire dates or half of them will NEVER be used, ever at all times as it currently stands.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:49:00 - [65] Originally by: BLACK-STAR PLEX HOARDERS: GTFO ppl need them and they have this thought... the other day someone posted "HEY if I buy PLEX I'm going to resell it for more to profit myself" ppl that want to actually use PLEX are paying ~200m additionally nowadays and its steadily rising (ridiculous). It's going to choke the community. PLEX needs expire dates or half of them will NEVER be used, ever at all times as it currently stands. Confirming that paying eve with PLEX is an entitlement not a privilege.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:50:00 - [66] Originally by: Aelius PLEXes nowadays are mainly used to "play for free" or "play for ISK", or "I have loads of RL money and i want ISK to play Internet spaceships BIG". In this case one hand washes the other. The RL "poor" player needs to spend some game time doing "EVE work" (mine, gas, rat, etc) to make ISK to pay for PLEX and to pay for some ships to play with. You ignore the large number of EVE-rich folks to whom a billion ISK isn't too much to ask for a PLEX. People running alliances who collect taxes here and there, take a percentage off moon-goo sales, engage in other activities which are much more lucrative than mission-running, etc. I agree that the RL-poor and EVE-poor folks will end up having to drop out of the game. In the meantime the PLEX prices will continue to rise as people start gearing up with all those fancy clothes, paint jobs, kittens, whatever else comes out of the Aurum store. The Aurum store will also provide new avenues for making ISK, so it's not all bad news. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:53:00 - [67] I'm selling off my PLEX stash sparingly so that if the prices skyrocket I can profit and if the prices plummet I didn't lose it all, I'm covered either way Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.01 04:54:00 - [68] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 01/06/2011 04:54:12 Originally by: Terghon Tu Actually, Aurum could lower PLEX prices. Remember, you cannot buy one PLEX for real money; you buy a GTC which gives you two PLEX. So, if people with real money buy GTC for PLEX, convert one PLEX to Aurum for clothes and put the other on the market the supply could increase, dropping the price. I'm not expecting that, but it is a reasonable possibility. Very unlikely. Don't forget you can buy AUR for ISK too. If you want that fabulous hat, you can also buy 1,000 AUR for say 100 mil ISK. Originally by: heheheh I earn enough to pay for several accounts, but if i can play a game for free without having to use my hard earned pennies i will. Same here. I just refuse to pay for more than one account. Originally by: Stella SGP For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games Besides, there's plenty of ftp games around there. For some people $30 a month is still quite an amount. On the other hand, if you deliver some newspapers a few hours a week you'll easily make that $30, at least faster than by grinding ISK.
Ami Nia	Posted - 2011.06.01 05:19:00 - [69] Edited by: Ami Nia on 01/06/2011 05:19:58 Originally by: Jennifer Starling Don't forget you can buy AUR for ISK too. no, you cannot. -- And then there's of course the thing with it getting FPS even slower than the character creator, heating up video cards, taking a noticeable time to fully load ...
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 05:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Ami Nia Edited by: Ami Nia on 01/06/2011 05:19:58 Originally by: Jennifer Starling Don't forget you can buy AUR for ISK too. no, you cannot. True, but people can sell the stuff they bought with Aur for isk. So I guess it's like a third hand buying aur with isk kinda thing Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.01 05:30:00 - [71] Another thread, another solution... ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Rosa Cardenalis	Posted - 2011.06.01 05:55:00 - [72] Edited by: Rosa Cardenalis on 01/06/2011 05:56:12 Edited by: Rosa Cardenalis on 01/06/2011 05:55:46 Originally by: Surprise *****s Haha, didn't realize going to college was such a bad priority. Proof again of everything I've said. I think the problem is that its hard to believe that many people - even a colledge student have a budget that cannot possibly handle $15 per month. Thats a very low price for what could be a whole month of entertainment. There are not many other forms of modern entertainment that can be found for that price. If it were me, I would see the $15 as a way to save money as it would mean that I could have as much of my favourite form of entertainment as I want for just $15 per month. Whats more likely is that you do not want to pay the $15 per month, which is fine, it just means you value other things more highly than eve. But I bet if you went through your monthly expenditure, you could find that $15 if you really wanted to. Where I live, $15 is the cost of 1 Beer.
Rosa Cardenalis	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:01:00 - [73] As an after thought, if plex prices go up, you could always pay for every other month with PLEX making your sub $7 / month?
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:07:00 - [74] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Another thread, another solution... I'd prefer to see expiry dates on items, rather than artificially limiting the number of times an item can be traded. All the milk and cattle in my hangar has to go "off" at some time, doesn't it? Gift cards have expiry dates (ask the shop - they stop accepting them after two or three years). A "simple" solution to the PLEX hoarding problem is to add an age limit of a few months. There is still plenty of opportunity to speculate, with the proviso that you can't indefinitely hoard PLEX to suddenly dump 5800 of them on the market when CCP tries fighting your RMT operation. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:15:00 - [75] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Another thread, another solution... I'd prefer to see expiry dates on items, rather than artificially limiting the number of times an item can be traded. All the milk and cattle in my hangar has to go "off" at some time, doesn't it? Gift cards have expiry dates (ask the shop - they stop accepting them after two or three years). A "simple" solution to the PLEX hoarding problem is to add an age limit of a few months. There is still plenty of opportunity to speculate, with the proviso that you can't indefinitely hoard PLEX to suddenly dump 5800 of them on the market when CCP tries fighting your RMT operation. Yes expiry date would work fine also. Just little harder to implement as every print would need own counter and some way to track that together with some notification service which would prevent accidental expiration of plexes in your hangar. However ignoring all mentioned above, it would surely be the best solution as long it is implemented correctly. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Candente Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:27:00 - [76] Originally by: Stella SGP Originally by: BLACK-STAR PLEX HOARDERS: GTFO ppl need them and they have this thought... the other day someone posted "HEY if I buy PLEX I'm going to resell it for more to profit myself" ppl that want to actually use PLEX are paying ~200m additionally nowadays and its steadily rising (ridiculous). It's going to choke the community. PLEX needs expire dates or half of them will NEVER be used, ever at all times as it currently stands. Confirming that paying eve with PLEX is an entitlement not a privilege. The ability to use PLEX is neither an entitlement or privilege, it's an indirect trade partnership between the PLEX buyers and CCP. CCP should and does care about the price of PLEX and the general inflation of ISK. To counter hoarding PLEX and create much needed ISK sinks, CCP should seed PLEX in a way that doesn't hurt the demand of GTC.
Alexandra Delarge The Korova	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:28:00 - [77] I don't care how much plexes sell for or how many people leave because they can't afford to play for free any more. The only thing I only care about is the size of my wallet. Everybody should start hoarding GTCs as soon as possible because once Aurum lands and the demand for plex sky rockets we will all be rich.
Shira Elan	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:28:00 - [78] WoW has 10 million subscribers who pay full price and many of them work minimum wage jobs.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:30:00 - [79] Originally by: Sandwich PvP Originally by: Rico Minali Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games . Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting. Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy... Yes, but you aren't a paying CCP customer, so why would they care about your situation? If you are seriously asking you fail at life, and if not you are trolling. Did anyone explain it yet? was he seriously asking? . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:42:00 - [80] Originally by: Alexandra Delarge I don't care how much plexes sell for or how many people leave because they can't afford to play for free any more. The only thing I only care about is the size of my wallet. Everybody should start hoarding GTCs as soon as possible because once Aurum lands and the demand for plex sky rockets we will all be rich. Oh I lay in my pile of PLEX and pinch my nipples while listening to Queen Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:03:00 - [81] Originally by: Aelius Is CCP considering this possible outcome of being tampering with the PLEX system beyond it's original design? Because you (CCP) know that the player numbers you have right now, you owe it in part to "free play" players created by the PLEX. If the PLEX system "dies" by overgrowing beyond its possibilities, a part of EVE's player base will "die" too. I guess the short version of the answer is "yes, we are aware of the possible implications". Those two posts by CCP Dr.EyjoG contain a bit more information on the subject. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Antihrist Pripravnik	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:12:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP Spitfire I guess the short version of the answer is "yes, we are aware of the possible implications". Those two posts by CCP Dr.EyjoG contain a bit more information on the subject. Speaking of possible implications, have you considered what will happen to industrial alt accounts that are mainly funded with PLEX? If one can not break the profitability limit for an alt account (PLEX + at least something on top to fund the main one's PvP), a lot of small to medium scale industrials will close their shops. Big players with a lot of ISK to invest will get even bigger and will be the only ones left on the market. As I know how bad it is in RL (happening in my country right now), I wouldn't like it to get inside EVE economy as well.
Aelexe Gallente Trusted Industries Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:24:00 - [83] If demand for PLEX is dropping due to ISK needs be met with a fewer amount, combined with less PLEX being bought by players due to the supposed drop in those using PLEX for their subscription, in theory the price for PLEX would eventually drop.
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:40:00 - [84] Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 07:42:35 If you'll think about it, who cares about people who can't even properly buy their gametime, who can't ever pay for services they are provided with? Too poor to pay $15? Are you kidding me? Too poor? Pass on one drinking nightout. Too young? Save pocket money. Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. Too dumb? Well, that can't be helped. Go play F2P.
Skydell Caldari Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:45:00 - [85] Originally by: Skydell Your fears are unfounded and your paranoia makes people giggle. You can convert Aurum to Plex too. Incorrect info on my part. It is a Redeem bought Plex and is a UI shortcut to redeem Items rather than Esc to redeem. I mistook it for a redeem from Aurum.
Chicken Blood	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:09:00 - [86] Originally by: MysteryZ What can CCP do about it without hurting their own profits? They can't seed plex on the market - every person who bought one from them would be costing them $15. CCP could use for seeding the PLEX stored on banned RMT accounts or even the "destroyed" PLEX. Ofc, that would mean they will not instantly cash in the money, but on the other hand they will not lose income. Also if CCP considers that PLEX hoarders brake their game, they could probably put a hard cap on number of PLEX per account. If somebody is stubborn, I guess it will have a hard time managing 50 accounts just to hoard PLEX. I have confidence that, as long as money are involved, CCP will try to find a good balance.
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:14:00 - [87] Edited by: Grimpak on 01/06/2011 08:14:37 Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. not when you live in a country where everywhere you go (and I really mean everywhere) is either on bankrupcy, insolvency, or doesn't want to give you a job, no matter what your education level is. I could emigrate out of this country, but that also costs money I don't have --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:18:00 - [88] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 01/06/2011 08:18:19 I've noticed a trend in PLEX prices over the last few days... seems to have stabilized from about 410m-414m in Jita. I call for a hold on plex selling! Let's get that price up!!! I want it at least doubled Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Jaari Val'Dara Caldari Deep Space Nomads Corp	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:54:00 - [89] Originally by: Rosa Cardenalis Edited by: Rosa Cardenalis on 01/06/2011 05:56:12 Edited by: Rosa Cardenalis on 01/06/2011 05:55:46 Originally by: Surprise *****s Haha, didn't realize going to college was such a bad priority. Proof again of everything I've said. I think the problem is that its hard to believe that many people - even a colledge student have a budget that cannot possibly handle $15 per month. Thats a very low price for what could be a whole month of entertainment. There are not many other forms of modern entertainment that can be found for that price. If it were me, I would see the $15 as a way to save money as it would mean that I could have as much of my favourite form of entertainment as I want for just $15 per month. Whats more likely is that you do not want to pay the $15 per month, which is fine, it just means you value other things more highly than eve. But I bet if you went through your monthly expenditure, you could find that $15 if you really wanted to. Where I live, $15 is the cost of 1 Beer. Where I live 15$ is the cost of 10 beers. Not everyone lives in a 1st world country. I could pay 15$ for my main, but any more than that is impossibility, if plex prices goes too far, I will unsubscribe my alts.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:57:00 - [90] Originally by: Yulith Luss'Ferus When I was a college student (undergrad) with barely a dime to my name, I didn't play MMOs - plain and simple, I worked and did activities that didn't have monthly upkeeps. You know, hang out with friends, watch movies, hell I met my wife too Contradiction has been bolded. Originally by: =Yulith Luss'Ferus Sure, that's uncommon, but all you need is $15 - I'm sure you can honestly find a way to find $15 if you want to play EVE every month if you don't want to ISK it up for PLEX Where do you live? Here (and other EU countries) if you are a student, your best bet is to ask a local mafia gang about becoming a pusher, you are not going to find a job even at a grocery. Originally by: BLACK-STAR PLEX HOARDERS: GTFO ppl need them and they have this thought... the other day someone posted "HEY if I buy PLEX I'm going to resell it for more to profit myself" EvE has a quasi-realistic economy. Those who are just too dumb to read in months of forewarning and easily predict what will happen with PLEX deserve to work hard to feed those who were not dumb. None forces anyone to learn the 101 of economy, but then you pay the consequences. Quote: Originally by: Lidia Prince -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not when you live in a country where everywhere you go (and I really mean everywhere) is either on bankrupcy, insolvency, or doesn't want to give you a job, no matter what your education level is. I could emigrate out of this country, but that also costs money I don't have Eh eh you have to live in my same place. I know no one - me included - who did not lose their job with the last recession. Also, everyone older than 30 including me is honestly told in face they will NOT, EVER hire them again. Too old. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Jaari Val'Dara Caldari Deep Space Nomads Corp	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:01:00 - [91] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Those who are just too dumb to read in months of forewarning and easily predict what will happen with PLEX deserve to work hard to feed those who were not dumb. None forces anyone to learn the 101 of economy, but then you pay the consequences. Not everyone has a capital big enough to deal in plexes.
Akira Samposeppa Gallente Arthashastra	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:03:00 - [92] Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. I really really IRL wish you would LOSE your job NOW. And subsequently that you cant find another no matter what you do.
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:15:00 - [93] Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 09:16:14 Originally by: Akira Samposeppa Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. I really really IRL wish you would LOSE your job NOW. And subsequently that you cant find another no matter what you do. Cry harder. There's always a way to earn money, you should either try harder or adapt and lower your expectations. And if it's that hard to find a job in your specific country, then you shouldn't spend time playing videogames anyway. "Hot damn, I got fired and I can't find a new job now... GAMING TIME!"? The point remains, and if you can't earn money, it's your own problem.
Akira Samposeppa Gallente Arthashastra	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:31:00 - [94] Edited by: Akira Samposeppa on 01/06/2011 09:32:02 Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 09:16:14 Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. I really really IRL wish you would LOSE your job NOW. And subsequently that you cant find another no matter what you do. Cry harder. There's always a way to earn money, you should either try harder or adapt and lower your expectations. And if it's that hard to find a job in your specific country, then you shouldn't spend time playing videogames anyway. "Hot damn, I got fired and I can't find a new job now... GAMING TIME!"? The point remains, and if you can't earn money, it's your own problem. Lol... Some people are so oblivious to the world around them. Few facts for you sunshine: I didnt get fired,in my country people with college education are without jobs and some of them digging in the trash. No matter what you do and how hard you try you cant find a job. Playing video games is a entertainment activity, yes, but if you have enough income(as i do by luck) to pay for electricity, food, internet (but 15$ means you a lot mind you, coz 15$ in your country and 15$ in my country is not the same value, my monthly internet bill is around 15$ for example)why not, your alternatives are watching the grass growing or staring into walls. If you have no options what so ever there is no harm in playing video games, maybe even it can do some good like dispelling your thoughts on the cruel reality for a while. Just to be clear, i am not whining about plex prices coz i have my stockpile of isk for a few months, i just honestly get ****ed off at immature and pathetic comments like yours, just that. Same if i tell you that i laughed at your mothers death. Trolling with RL stuff is not cool..mkay?
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:44:00 - [95] Originally by: Akira Samposeppa Edited by: Akira Samposeppa on 01/06/2011 09:32:02 Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 09:16:14 Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. I really really IRL wish you would LOSE your job NOW. And subsequently that you cant find another no matter what you do. Cry harder. There's always a way to earn money, you should either try harder or adapt and lower your expectations. And if it's that hard to find a job in your specific country, then you shouldn't spend time playing videogames anyway. "Hot damn, I got fired and I can't find a new job now... GAMING TIME!"? The point remains, and if you can't earn money, it's your own problem. Lol... Some people are so oblivious to the world around them. Few facts for you sunshine: I didnt get fired,in my country people with college education are without jobs and some of them digging in the trash. No matter what you do and how hard you try you cant find a job. Playing video games is a entertainment activity, yes, but if you have enough income(as i do by luck) to pay for electricity, food, internet (but 15$ means you a lot mind you, coz 15$ in your country and 15$ in my country is not the same value, my monthly internet bill is around 15$ for example)why not, your alternatives are watching the grass growing or staring into walls. If you have no options what so ever there is no harm in playing video games, maybe even it can do some good like dispelling your thoughts on the cruel reality for a while. Just to be clear, i am not whining about plex prices coz i have my stockpile of isk for a few months, i just honestly get ****ed off at immature and pathetic comments like yours, just that. Same if i tell you that i laughed at your mothers death. Trolling with RL stuff is not cool..mkay? Want me to hug you? :3
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:47:00 - [96] Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 09:16:14 Originally by: Akira Samposeppa Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. I really really IRL wish you would LOSE your job NOW. And subsequently that you cant find another no matter what you do. Cry harder. There's always a way to earn money, you should either try harder or adapt and lower your expectations. And if it's that hard to find a job in your specific country, then you shouldn't spend time playing videogames anyway. "Hot damn, I got fired and I can't find a new job now... GAMING TIME!"? The point remains, and if you can't earn money, it's your own problem. I can't lower my expectations anymore unless I work for free. literally. well I could sell a kidney... --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Zoroa Aulx-Gao	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:49:00 - [97] Oh man Lidia, I can't wait for karma to kick you in the ****ing face.
Steve Seninard	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:49:00 - [98] 15 bucks. LOL really? People are really emoraging over 15 freaking dollars? I love it. How much do you slobs spend on cigs each month?
Gustav Knuttsen	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:50:00 - [99] Well... If you not happy with PLEX price.. GET BETTER JOB !!!
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Steve Seninard 15 bucks. LOL really? People are really emoraging over 15 freaking dollars? I love it. How much do you slobs spend on cigs each month? I could be emoraging if I was screaming like hell. and throwing hissy fits left and right. but no, I'm just trying to make a point on the fact that sometimes "getting a job" is actually a luxury many can't afford, no matter what is the education level, background, age, etc... also I spend exactly 0 euros on cigs per year. being a non-smoker has these things. that said, maybe I could sell a lung too. people actually work sorta well with just one lung, don't they? --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:05:00 - [101] Plex prices are subject to manipulation and i¦m sure CCP is well aware of those accounts that hold large amounts of them and do actively look at the interactions those accounts have as part of other ongoing security efforts, so large stockpiles just say to them, hey, look at me. .....so if you got loads of plex you also already got loads of oversight, you just didn¦t know it ...... continues overleaf.
salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:19:00 - [102] there was no reason at all to include plex in the $>AUR chain the only possible reason i can think of is that "illegal" macro RMT providers with their cheaper isk alternatives will help keep AUR from spiralling up/downwards out of control by pinning them to plex pricing
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:23:00 - [103] Oh the Ayn Rand followers and the other cults of self, grow up, you live in a complex society that is just one of countless complex societies on the planet, none are correct, but those who act like a whole prosper better than those who are under the control of the self centred few. Eve may pander to your world view, that¦s why corps and alliances can get shafted by lone players, but behind the pixels are complex people with complex lives that you could never understand as you don¦t have EMPATHY in any form at any level. Plex price will vary, but they are a virtual item even though they have a real world application, and as a virtual item the ELUA phrase that should be of concern is: CCP say, "all the pixels belong to us", you just pay for the privilege to use them, plex are pixels, they now belong to us. ...... continues overleaf.
McPod	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:29:00 - [104] Edited by: McPod on 01/06/2011 10:29:45 Eve just turned into habbo hotel. I dont want to pick out curtains, i want to blow **** up.
Daniela Darr	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:35:00 - [105] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Steve Seninard 15 bucks. LOL really? People are really emoraging over 15 freaking dollars? I love it. How much do you slobs spend on cigs each month? I could be emoraging if I was screaming like hell. and throwing hissy fits left and right. but no, I'm just trying to make a point on the fact that sometimes "getting a job" is actually a luxury many can't afford, no matter what is the education level, background, age, etc... also I spend exactly 0 euros on cigs per year. being a non-smoker has these things. that said, maybe I could sell a lung too. people actually work sorta well with just one lung, don't they? Well playing EVE (or any pc game) isn't really what you'd call a primary need of life. You can always unsub, you can live very well without.
Joss56 Gallente Unleashed' Fury	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:35:00 - [106] Plex is the legal rmt of eve, fine to me but the change plex/isk must be regulated to some lvl even if for that ccp must sell those via npc with severe conditions (1 per toon/account). Things can be done, just a matter of will. ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:46:00 - [107] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 01/06/2011 10:45:51 Originally by: Daniela Darr Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Steve Seninard 15 bucks. LOL really? People are really emoraging over 15 freaking dollars? I love it. How much do you slobs spend on cigs each month? I could be emoraging if I was screaming like hell. and throwing hissy fits left and right. but no, I'm just trying to make a point on the fact that sometimes "getting a job" is actually a luxury many can't afford, no matter what is the education level, background, age, etc... also I spend exactly 0 euros on cigs per year. being a non-smoker has these things. that said, maybe I could sell a lung too. people actually work sorta well with just one lung, don't they? Well playing EVE (or any pc game) isn't really what you'd call a primary need of life. You can always unsub, you can live very well without. LIES!!!! Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Jack Abramof	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:50:00 - [108] Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 07:42:35 If you'll think about it, who cares about people who can't even properly buy their gametime, who can't ever pay for services they are provided with? Too poor to pay $15? Are you kidding me? Too poor? Pass on one drinking nightout. Too young? Save pocket money. Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. Too dumb? Well, that can't be helped. Go play F2P. Because you think someone care about your very poor view of people ? 1/ grow up 2/ stop play online games, goto see the world and meet people 3/ come back when less dumb. thanks
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:52:00 - [109] Edited by: Miilla on 01/06/2011 10:52:45 I think they may lose some players with 2 or 3 or more accounts, end up selling them on the character bazzarr. That doesn't really lose players though it just churns them to other customers. However I see PLEX rising to 500m a Wonka Bar once they start being converted into AURUM, as supply thins out on the market due to destruction. Also, Expect more PLEX to be sunk into Alliance Tournament as they may charge for the HD stream like FanFest. So i see 3 PLEX sinks, 30 days game time, AURUM items and CCP Events (fanfest, Alliance tourney, and whatever events come in future to sink more PLEX).
Steve Seninard	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:54:00 - [110] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 01/06/2011 10:52:45 I think they may lose some players with 2 or 3 or more accounts, end up selling them on the character bazzarr. That doesn't really lose players though it just churns them to other customers. However I see PLEX rising to 500m a Wonka Bar once they start being converted into AURUM, as supply thins out on the market due to destruction. Also, Expect more PLEX to be sunk into Alliance Tournament as they may charge for the HD stream like FanFest. So i see 3 PLEX sinks, 30 days game time, AURUM items and CCP Events (fanfest, Alliance tourney, and whatever events come in future to sink more PLEX). Good. I can't be arsed to run missions.
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:58:00 - [111] Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 10:58:25 Originally by: Jack Abramof Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 07:42:35 If you'll think about it, who cares about people who can't even properly buy their gametime, who can't ever pay for services they are provided with? Too poor to pay $15? Are you kidding me? Too poor? Pass on one drinking nightout. Too young? Save pocket money. Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. Too dumb? Well, that can't be helped. Go play F2P. Because you think someone care about your very poor view of people ? 1/ grow up 2/ stop play online games, goto see the world and meet people 3/ come back when less dumb. thanks Quote: Because you think someone care about your very poor view of people ? This. And thanks for answering BTW, I guess with this amount of answers my post is a "successful troll"-one now. Hugz to you :3
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:08:00 - [112] Do you mean there are lots people quiting WOW because it is not free?
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:11:00 - [113] Edited by: Grimpak on 01/06/2011 11:11:37 Originally by: Daniela Darr Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Steve Seninard 15 bucks. LOL really? People are really emoraging over 15 freaking dollars? I love it. How much do you slobs spend on cigs each month? I could be emoraging if I was screaming like hell. and throwing hissy fits left and right. but no, I'm just trying to make a point on the fact that sometimes "getting a job" is actually a luxury many can't afford, no matter what is the education level, background, age, etc... also I spend exactly 0 euros on cigs per year. being a non-smoker has these things. that said, maybe I could sell a lung too. people actually work sorta well with just one lung, don't they? Well playing EVE (or any pc game) isn't really what you'd call a primary need of life. You can always unsub, you can live very well without. it's better than coming home after yet another failed attempt to getting a job and stare at reruns in the tv and getting depressed --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:54:00 - [114] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 01/06/2011 11:57:50 Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out... Originally by: Sandwich PvP Yes, but you aren't a paying CCP customer, so why would they care about your situation? the more plex costs, the less plex people who buy ISK with plex will need ot meet their target amount of ISK, the less "free" accounts will people who play for free have. And they dont' even need to "quit eve" - just reduce the number of accounts from 4 to 2 or something similar. Also some paying people have "free" accounts they pay with plex - they might drop those if they dont' pay for themselves any more. So less plex means less paying customers any way you twist it. therefore, the more PLEX costs, the less money for CCP. so I think they do care ... also I believe CCP already intervenes, I mean I've seen 417/407 mil plex and then it quickly went back to 414/404. I also heard it used to be 420 but haven't seen it ... I think CCP might inject plexes when price goes up too fast and when its stable they may remove them back but veeeery slooow.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.06.01 12:30:00 - [115] I for one am dropping 1 of my 3 accounts due to the current plex prices. Gonna wrap up some training on one of the chars, then move it to another account. It's just too much effort to keep it running. This is not because I'm poor irl, but a third account just isn't worth that extra isk or cash to me. --- Drykor - AHARM
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.01 12:44:00 - [116] Well I think for CCP, the ideal situation is that there's a lot of vanity items being bought with AUR (which gets them extra income) and as little as possible game accounts being "payed" with plex (which doesn't make them more money over the $2.50+ fee they receive for selling a plex).
Negustor Cinstit	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:21:00 - [117] Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 09:16:14 Originally by: Akira Samposeppa Originally by: Lidia Prince Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. I really really IRL wish you would LOSE your job NOW. And subsequently that you cant find another no matter what you do. Cry harder. There's always a way to earn money, you should either try harder or adapt and lower your expectations. And if it's that hard to find a job in your specific country, then you shouldn't spend time playing videogames anyway. "Hot damn, I got fired and I can't find a new job now... GAMING TIME!"? The point remains, and if you can't earn money, it's your own problem. There are so many cases of people with low income which ended up like that due to so many varied reasons/situations that any person with at least a hint of intelligence would refrain from statements such as yours. Intelligence and some decency. You only see things from your own perspective and judging from your position; you might have worked for it and congratulations for that, some just cannot. It's not your place to bash or judge them. You're like telling someone from Africa "aaa, you're dieing of thirst?? DIG DEEPER!!" Also, some people go on and say "work 4 more hours!". Really now? I would LOVE to be able to do overtime on my job whenever I want to, but it doesn't work that way. There are very few workplaces where you can do paid extratime whenever YOU want. On top of that, funny that some poeple say that the ones struggling with their finances should stop playing/paying 15$. Maybe those few hours of gameplay is what makes them relax enough to overlook the hardships. It is a "GAME" after all you know, why are you so bitter? And to end this long rant, I will never understand how some people turn up that bitter and mean towards totally unknown people. Annonimity brings out the worst of some people.
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:36:00 - [118] Originally by: Lidia Prince And thanks for answering BTW, I guess with this amount of answers my post is a "successful troll"-one now. Hugz to you :3 You seem to think being a troll is somehow better that believing the things you said, only the same type of person would say those stupid things, no matter the reason. A hug doesn't excuse doing that on purpose, but I'll send you one back anyways just in case you can still feel the love and be healed. One wholeheartedly hug to you.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:49:00 - [119] Originally by: Negustor Cinstit On top of that, funny that some poeple say that the ones struggling with their finances should stop playing/paying 15$. Maybe those few hours of gameplay is what makes them relax enough to overlook the hardships. It is a "GAME" after all you know, why are you so bitter? And to end this long rant, I will never understand how some people turn up that bitter and mean towards totally unknown people. Annonimity brings out the worst of some people. Well why pay $120 a year while there's many free to play games around that may only require you to buy the game for perhaps $10? For some people, especially in non-western countries it's quite a lot of money.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:53:00 - [120] For all the people out there who are having difficulty understanding, if you pay by plex, CCP STILL GET PAID $15!! No one plays eve for free. No one. So CCP cares as much about the guy paying by plex as the guy paying by cash, if the plex guy quits, thats a $15 sub gone just like a cash player. Maybe itll stabilise, maybe it wont. Maybe itll be at a level where full time employed people can earn enough isk to play, and still have enough time to do what they really play for, like pvp, maybe it wont. If it doesnt, people will stop playing, or reduce the amount of accounts they play on which is bad for CCP. If its bad for CCP, its bad for Eve and that means its bad for you. Lets see what happens. If I need to cut down to one account then i will. I have a near perfect ice miner to sell off if that happens.. Anyone? Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
SVTNeato	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:56:00 - [121] I really don't think CCP will ever let PLEX hit the 1b mark or anywhere near it to be honest. They have a vested interest in keeping the price low, Why sell someone 1 billion isk for 15 bucks when you can fix it to where they only get 370-400 million. This causes people that want to "buy isk" to have to spend more on it, To me it doesn't make any sort of financial sense to allow prices to skyrocket and lose money over it because of people deciding they don't need to buy as many plex to do what they are doing.
Negustor Cinstit	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:19:00 - [122] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Negustor Cinstit On top of that, funny that some poeple say that the ones struggling with their finances should stop playing/paying 15$. Maybe those few hours of gameplay is what makes them relax enough to overlook the hardships. It is a "GAME" after all you know, why are you so bitter? And to end this long rant, I will never understand how some people turn up that bitter and mean towards totally unknown people. Annonimity brings out the worst of some people. Well why pay $120 a year while there's many free to play games around that may only require you to buy the game for perhaps $10? For some people, especially in non-western countries it's quite a lot of money. Because the f2p ones are of lower quality. They're actually free2play, pay2win type of games in which you could never compete against others without investing a lot of money. And believe or not, some people really like EVE . On top, 15euro for some is a stretch and it's most likely the max they will pay. It's not a coincidence that this is the sum most MMOs charge for monthly subscriptions.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:51:00 - [123] Originally by: Negustor Cinstit Because the f2p ones are of lower quality. They're actually free2play, pay2win type of games in which you could never compete against others without investing a lot of money. And believe or not, some people really like EVE . On top, 15euro for some is a stretch and it's most likely the max they will pay. It's not a coincidence that this is the sum most MMOs charge for monthly subscriptions. Very true, i too always call them "Pay to Win"
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:52:00 - [124] Quote: Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. You have also officially failed at life, and nothing you ever say on these forums will ever be taken seriously by anyone who is emotionally post-adolescent. I suggest you go out and get some more life experience. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Mr Dilkington	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:55:00 - [125] Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. You have also officially failed at life, and nothing you ever say on these forums will ever be taken seriously by anyone who is emotionally post-adolescent. I suggest you go out and get some more life experience. Im sure his opinion will change a few years after leaving school when he has been shat on a few times.
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:58:00 - [126] Edited by: Lidia Prince on 01/06/2011 14:58:16 Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Too "workless"? Go out and find a work you lazy piece of human garbage. You have also officially failed at life, and nothing you ever say on these forums will ever be taken seriously by anyone who is emotionally post-adolescent. I suggest you go out and get some more life experience. Oh no. People won't give a ship about things I say. The horror. So far things I say are taken ABOVE seriousness, you just proved it again. And... need a tissue? It's like a shamwow tissue, can hold a whole bucket of sweet tears.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic	Posted - 2011.06.01 15:18:00 - [127] Wouldn't the upcomming measures against bot's bring the Plex prices down? It would be good if these come just before Incarna. http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE
Ludacrys	Posted - 2011.06.01 15:48:00 - [128] CCP should just fix the PLEX price and be done with it
Elirel Alpha.Tech	Posted - 2011.06.01 16:05:00 - [129] Edited by: Elirel on 01/06/2011 16:05:46 Originally by: Stella SGP Let's assume you are paid a decent amount doing a decent job all you need is 1 hour more a week to pay for 2 accounts, 4 hours a month as compared to how many hours you require to grind the ISK? Dude, get of your white horse. You do realise that the level of income in US or western EU is way way way above average income in many other countries? FYI 15$ can be a salary for the whole day or even week of work in some countries not belonging to "the golden billion". And not because people in other coutries are stupid, uneducated or not working enough, its just the way world economy is built (i.e. US printing money and sucking resources of the whole World).
MinBruSis	Posted - 2011.06.01 16:45:00 - [130] Edited by: MinBruSis on 01/06/2011 16:47:51 Originally by: Elirel Edited by: Elirel on 01/06/2011 16:05:46 (i.e. US printing money and sucking resources of the whole World). Oh, it's our fault Plex prices are too high now.... Fail argument is Fail. I blame the British Empire, if they would have only won that pesky war we would have nice low Plex prices. EVE's resident Economist put it best by explaining that information was released, people assumed and speculated sending prices higher, but the system(capitalism) is self correcting the prices. They will stabilize, demand vs supply will always self correct if left alone. If a government(ccp) starts reacting to the price while in flux they will only mess it up worse. I know some wonÆt listen but or believe it but the best course of action is to leave it alone right now, and let it self correct. Oh well, just my two cents.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.01 17:46:00 - [131] Edited by: Stella SGP on 01/06/2011 17:47:37 Originally by: Elirel Dude, get of your white horse. You do realise that the level of income in US or western EU is way way way above average income in many other countries? FYI 15$ can be a salary for the whole day or even week of work in some countries not belonging to "the golden billion". And not because people in other coutries are stupid, uneducated or not working enough, its just the way world economy is built (i.e. US printing money and sucking resources of the whole World). That statement was made with the assumption that he is in a reasonably developed nation since he mention not being able to afford childcare and such. You should stop comparing at extreme opposites. If you wana keep your argument valid then I could say that hey eve should be free since there are people in Kenya who are starving and there is no way they can even computers to play, hell we should get him a satellite dish as well while we are at it so he can have internet. In order to help him play eve, since playing this particular game is a entitlement to everyone, I propose we should increase subscription rates and channel the money to them for PCs and internet connections. Like I said playing eve is a luxury. BTW I really like the Bugatti, but at over 1 mil pounds a pop its too expensive and since I think its an entitlement, I should be given 1 for free if I mow your lawn every weekend. Sounds silly doesn't it? IRL if you can't afford something, you look for cheaper alternatives thats all. For my case, the cheaper alternative is public transport, no hard feelings there. Hmm, maybe I should take a home equity loan and buy a Hum-vee and start *****ing and gas prices! Also I'm not from US or EU, so I can safely say if you come from a really impoverished country where people make $15 a week, I can assure you that you are most probably reasonably well off to be able to afford a decent PC, internet fees and time to grind for ISK. I'm not saying that they don't deserve it or anything, just people should live within their means. There are cheaper alternatives out there. Its not like eve is the only form of entertainment in this world. If you are playing something you know you can't afford, you are basically playing on borrowed time and be glad that you even had the opportunity to.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2011.06.01 18:11:00 - [132] Originally by: Elirel (i.e. US printing money and sucking resources of the whole World). Haha i love it , so true , yet allready one troll found that "impossible"
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:12:00 - [133] Originally by: MinBruSis Oh, it's our fault Plex prices are too high now.... Fail argument is Fail. He was talking about your nasty and repeated Quantitative Easing, which is bloodsucking money from emerging economies, expecially Brazil. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Steve Seninard	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:18:00 - [134] Folks were told to get a job to afford 15 bucks, they thought it thru, and decided it was best to just bash the good 'ol US of A instead. That seems about right.
Daniela Darr	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:23:00 - [135] Originally by: Steve Seninard the good 'ol US of A The US of A aren't old.
Achurraa	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:34:00 - [136] I guess some people are in the same boat, I created extra accounts for all those "extra" alts, you know, the extra miner, the extra buidler, etc. But with Plex prices climbing as they are, making enough isk to pay for 5 accounts translates into more time "working" in EVE. I simply do not have that much free time, and went from casual player to super casual (lol), 4 of the 5 accounts have been cancelled. Hopefully I can still get Plex to keep some of them going, but as it is I cbf with a second job and simply do not have the RL cash to throw into this game. Then again, with the Incarna Expansion (and zero gameplay), I'm not gonna miss much. But like many said, CCP might fix this still ...
Steve Seninard	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:45:00 - [137] Originally by: Achurraa I guess some people are in the same boat, I created extra accounts for all those "extra" alts, you know, the extra miner, the extra buidler, etc. But with Plex prices climbing as they are, making enough isk to pay for 5 accounts translates into more time "working" in EVE. I simply do not have that much free time, and went from casual player to super casual (lol), 4 of the 5 accounts have been cancelled. Hopefully I can still get Plex to keep some of them going, but as it is I cbf with a second job and simply do not have the RL cash to throw into this game. Then again, with the Incarna Expansion (and zero gameplay), I'm not gonna miss much. But like many said, CCP might fix this still ... They can't fix what isn't broken.
Cathy Drall Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2011.06.01 21:12:00 - [138] Originally by: Stella SGP Like I said playing eve is a luxury. BTW I really like the Bugatti, but at over 1 mil pounds a pop its too expensive and since I think its an entitlement, I should be given 1 for free if I mow your lawn every weekend. Sounds silly doesn't it? IRL if you can't afford something, you look for cheaper alternatives thats all. For my case, the cheaper alternative is public transport, no hard feelings there. Hmm, maybe I should take a home equity loan and buy a Hum-vee and start ***ing and gas prices! I'm not saying that they don't deserve it or anything, just people should live within their means. There are cheaper alternatives out there. Its not like eve is the only form of entertainment in this world. If you are playing something you know you can't afford, you are basically playing on borrowed time and be glad that you even had the opportunity to. Well I agree, no-one is "entitled" to play interweb games and people should have their priorities. If you play at the expense of more important things, not being able to grind enough plexes together isn't your main problem imo. Although I can't imagine you can't afford a single account even if PLEX would cost 750 million. I have a fulltime job but every month I make a lot more than that. Let alone if I didn't have a job and a lot more time! Originally by:** Achurraa But with Plex prices climbing as they are, making enough isk to pay for 5 accounts translates into more time "working" in EVE. I simply do not have that much free time, and went from casual player to super casual (lol), 4 of the 5 accounts have been cancelled. Well it doesn¦t sound very strange that you use less accounts as you play a lot less, "super causal". I don¦t really see what¦s the problem, if at all? "Im not nearly as paranoid as people think I am"
Ophelia Allover	Posted - 2011.06.01 21:33:00 - [139] It was going to happen sooner or later, so I will do it. Several people want to play eve, but the only way they can do that is by plex because of their home situation. Now I know many people have said "If you cant afford a 15 a month game, then you shouldnt be 'wasting' your time in front of eve." Lets analyze that for a second. A man has a wife, and 2 kids with a nice house, and a nice 50k a year job. Nothing major, but he isnt massively in the hole on several things. This man goes to work for 8-9 hours a day, comes home, spends some time with his kids, then plays eve for 1-2 hours a day running missions, doing wormholes, ratting, whatever he does to make money in game. Doing this, he is able to make enough for plex/gtc, and have enough left over to occasionally buy that shiny ship, or enough to lose some ships in pvp. You are telling someone who works hard to provide for his family to basically find a new hobby because plex are getting to high on price. OK so he spends too much time playing eve. So if he quits... he will spend that same amount of time watching american idol as his brain slowly rots away because that show is made for ******s? No. Then you can easily compare plex to the cost of gas. (Yes I actually went there.) You see, no matter how expensive it gets, people have to buy gas. You cant get around that. Now true there are busses and trains, and other forms of public transportation which is all fine and dandy... if you live in the city. However lets look at the people who got a house in the suburbs outside of the crime centers and away from the filth that naturally comes with living in a city. Those people MUST bend over and take it up the butt from and buy the ever more expensive gas, because they have to get to work, and they have to provide for themselves and their family. Its almost the same thing in eve. Some people have to pay for eve with plex because of their home situation, however varied that may be, and it is getting to the point where it is becoming rediculous. 400m + for plex? Come on. A year ago I sold a GTC on the forums for 450m because the price sunk. Now its almost double that price because people are taking advantage of the release of incarna. They are hoarding all of their plex because they see a HUGE increase in interest for plex. In all honesty, this is incredibly stupid. There is no reason for it as you have NO idea how much it would take to buy one vanity item. But then again, no risk, no reward so I understand. Many people have already suggested it, and I think it would be pretty funny if it happened. And that is a hard cap on the number of plex an account is allowed to own. Make it a decent number, say 10, and give everyone a month warning that they will only be able to own 10 plex per account soon. And to further improve on the notion that it is ONLY a 10 plex cap, make people unable to store plexes in pos or in corp hangers. People will unload all of their plex on the market, it would drive down the cost of plex, initially, and people would be able to easily pay for their accounts. But I am not done. Lets say that when the hard cap hits, the people who have more than 10, get the excess time added to their accounts. Talk about true justice. They would be out billions, possibly trillions depending on who it is, and their accounts would be paid up till they are over 60. Oh the pure ironic justice. Seriously CCP if that ever happened. I would love you guys more than my wife, dog, and first born child that I havent had yet.
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.06.01 21:45:00 - [140] Edited by: Scarlet des Loupes on 01/06/2011 21:45:19 Originally by: Ophelia Allover But I am not done. Lets say that when the hard cap hits, the people who have more than 10, get the excess time added to their accounts. Talk about true justice. They would be out billions, possibly trillions depending on who it is, and their accounts would be paid up till they are over 60. Oh the pure ironic justice. Seriously CCP if that ever happened. I would love you guys more than my wife, dog, and first born child that I havent had yet. Seriously, wife, dog, and first born child? Oh come on it's just a silly game ...
oniplE MeMento.	Posted - 2011.06.01 22:01:00 - [141] Edited by: oniplE on 01/06/2011 22:01:55 Originally by: Aelius -As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more. That's market mechanics in reverse. You're forgetting about NEW PLEX sellers. A higher PLEX price means it becomes more attractive for rich players (apparently you're rich if you have 15 dollars, jeez) to sell PLEX. People who won't sell a PLEX for 400M, but will sell for 1b. Also, PLEX sellers having an ISK target is an assumption. They might as well have a dollar limit, which means supply isn't negatively influenced. __________________________________________ Signature starts here
Not-Apsalar	Posted - 2011.06.01 22:04:00 - [142] Originally by: oniplE Edited by: oniplE on 01/06/2011 22:01:55 Originally by: Aelius -As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more. That's market mechanics in reverse. You're forgetting about NEW PLEX sellers. A higher PLEX price means it becomes more attractive for rich players (apparently you're rich if you have 15 dollars, jeez) to sell PLEX. People who won't sell a PLEX for 400M, but will sell for 1b. Also, PLEX sellers having an ISK target is an assumption. They might as well have a dollar limit, which means supply isn't negatively influenced. More new PLEX sellers means more supply, which means lower prices.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.01 22:51:00 - [143] Originally by: Ophelia Allover Several people want to play eve, but the only way they can do that is by plex because of their home situation. Now I know many people have said "If you cant afford a 15 a month game, then you shouldnt be 'wasting' your time in front of eve." Lets analyze that for a second. A man has a wife, and 2 kids with a nice house, and a nice 50k a year job. Nothing major, but he isnt massively in the hole on several things. This man goes to work for 8-9 hours a day, comes home, spends some time with his kids, then plays eve for 1-2 hours a day running missions, doing wormholes, ratting, whatever he does to make money in game. Doing this, he is able to make enough for plex/gtc, and have enough left over to occasionally buy that shiny ship, or enough to lose some ships in pvp. You are telling someone who works hard to provide for his family to basically find a new hobby because plex are getting to high on price. OK so he spends too much time playing eve. So if he quits... he will spend that same amount of time watching american idol as his brain slowly rots away because that show is made for ****s? No. For this hypothetical guy that you just described, if you are telling me that he has less then $15 left at the end of every month, then he is living beyonds his means. What happens if one of his kids get sick or has an accident? He is a disaster waiting to happen and he has only himself to blame. He can jolly well quit eve and watch idols cause he is indeed a **. Originally by:** Ophelia Allover hen you can easily compare plex to the cost of gas. (Yes I actually went there.) You see, no matter how expensive it gets, people have to buy gas. You cant get around that. Now true there are busses and trains, and other forms of public transportation which is all fine and dandy... if you live in the city. However lets look at the people who got a house in the suburbs outside of the crime centers and away from the filth that naturally comes with living in a city. Those people MUST bend over and take it up the butt from and buy the ever more expensive gas, because they have to get to work, and they have to provide for themselves and their family. Yes bend over and take it up there because they chose to live in a nice big suburb house away from the filth and crime centers and gas prices is part of the cost of living there. Anyway gas is a finite resource and its cost will only rise. It would be rather ignorant for people not to consider this when they bought their homes. Too busy watching baseball to be more aware of whats going on in the world? Anyway what irritates me is when people start taking certain privileges or luxuries for granted and when situation turns against them, they suddenly feel like they were entitled to them all along. Everything I said is just my opinion, so please don't take it offensively as I do not expect anyone to agree with them.
Jita Bloodtear	Posted - 2011.06.02 01:46:00 - [144] Here's an actual case study for you. I currently have 41 long term active accounts which are entirely paid for by PLEX. I'm a mass multiboxing miner who does all sorts of highsec things, research corps, market games, freightering, etc. I am not a bot and never have been. I am seriously considering suspending anywhere between 30 to 38 of my accounts because the PLEX situation is growing out of hand. It's becoming less and less worth my time to spend dozens of hours each month only to break even. Now it makes total sense that I'm using PLEX, as I'm in no way going to fork over $615 a month to upkeep my accounts. But CCP is still getting $615 a month from me, which as far as I'm concerned makes me one of their most important customers. Now I'm looking at cutting their monthly income by $570/month just by myself. The conglomeration of multiboxers who we play with are also preparing to follow suit, thus leading to a shut down of anywhere between 60-90 accounts. This isn't a threat or a complaint or anything, it's just that under the current trends of the ingame market we can no longer sustain this many accounts --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System
David Clausewitz Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.02 03:15:00 - [145] it will cause isk inflation
Alhambra Rainwalker Caldari Rosa Alba Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.02 03:55:00 - [146] Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 02/06/2011 04:03:46 Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 02/06/2011 04:03:29 Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 02/06/2011 04:01:22 Originally by: Jita Bloodtear Here's an actual case study for you. I currently have 41 long term active accounts which are entirely paid for by PLEX. I'm a mass multiboxing miner who does all sorts of highsec things, research corps, market games, freightering, etc. I am not a bot and never have been. I am seriously considering suspending anywhere between 30 to 38 of my accounts because the PLEX situation is growing out of hand. It's becoming less and less worth my time to spend dozens of hours each month only to break even. Now it makes total sense that I'm using PLEX, as I'm in no way going to fork over $615 a month to upkeep my accounts. But CCP is still getting $615 a month from me, which as far as I'm concerned makes me one of their most important customers. Now I'm looking at cutting their monthly income by $570/month just by myself. The conglomeration of multiboxers who we play with are also preparing to follow suit, thus leading to a shut down of anywhere between 60-90 accounts. This isn't a threat or a complaint or anything, it's just that under the current trends of the ingame market we can no longer sustain this many accounts Damn, that`s some hardcore gameplay. As for PLEX price, people keep saying CCP will do something if PLEX is too expensive but what are they going to do about it? If they seed plex on marketplace covertly it means that they are actually taking a loss on it as they provide essentially free gametime for players. That could only be used as emergency measure for a little while. Well, I suppose they could boost mission and ratting rewards so people could better afford the plex but pretty soon sellers will adjust. And if they put in price ceiling supply might dry up once sellers decide real life money -> isk conversion ratio is no longer worth it.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.02 04:14:00 - [147] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 02/06/2011 04:17:09 yay, numbers game again! Still using numbers from almost a year ago as I'm too lazy to actually look it up :) 38 accounts cancelled against 300k accounts = 299,962 accounts. So CCP maintains 99.9987% of their accounts. To quote Calvin & Hobbes... "I'M SIGNIFICANT!!!!"... screamed the dust speck Edit! Because now I'm interested, let's see how much CCP brings in for 300k accounts! 300K $15/month = $4,500,000 a month With the significant loss of 38 accounts they'd only pull in $4,494,150 a month. Hope they have food stamps in Iceland Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Jita Bloodtear	Posted - 2011.06.02 04:51:00 - [148] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 02/06/2011 04:17:09 yay, numbers game again! Still using numbers from almost a year ago as I'm too lazy to actually look it up :) 38 accounts cancelled against 300k accounts = 299,962 accounts. So CCP maintains 99.9987% of their accounts. To quote Calvin & Hobbes... "I'M SIGNIFICANT!!!!"... screamed the dust speck Edit! Because now I'm interested, let's see how much CCP brings in for 300k accounts! 300K $15/month = $4,500,000 a month With the significant loss of 38 accounts they'd only pull in $4,494,150 a month. Hope they have food stamps in Iceland While I know this is intended to be an insult aimed at me declaring myself a valuable customer, but you're really missing the point of what I said. My case is significant because it represents the larger issue, which is that multiboxers cannot sustain their accounts as this trend continues. This represents thousands and thousands of accounts. My subgroup of this larger group of people is around 60-90 accounts. The point I was making was that this isn't a theoretical argument about what "might be", but instead of what is. --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System
Herr Wallenquist	Posted - 2011.06.02 04:56:00 - [149] Originally by: Karash Amerius You know, there was a time when the PLEX system did not exist, yet many "poor" players played and their numbers grew. You should think about that. Yea and that's when the (this) game is still unknown tbh though I think the things that make EvE unique is of course their Plex system but that is (this) is a delicate matter, there ought to be a balance or it should be lowered down
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.02 05:30:00 - [150] Originally by: Surprise *****s Edited by: Surprise *****s on 01/06/2011 01:45:08 So someone cant play eve for an hour or two each day after spending 3 hours in classes then spending 8 hours doing homework? What are you? One of those communist Chinese isk farmers? If you need 8 hours a day to do homework after 3 hours of school, you're doing something wrong. I call BS. Back to the topic. The cycle is PLEX -> AUR or ISK -> Clothing for AUR or ISK -> If you have ISK, buy PLEX. I don't think that's changed. I would speculate that CCP will manage PLEX prices by adjusting the value of AUR based on how they see it impacting the value of PLEX. Any other comments in this thread about CCP injecting PLEX into the market, or limited PLEX purchases per month is pure BS as far as I know. If CCP wants to adjust the value of PLEX, they can change it's price or availability. Currently, you can buy some huge number of PLEX in one purchase, but you are limited on the number of actual purchases and time to delivery. There is no month long waiting period or PLEX sale freeze that I am aware of, though I suppose they may apply this to one account after a massive number of purchases. Whatever.. it's neither here nor there. PLEX has a definite value to the end user. That amount determined by what they feel is affordable and worthwhile, before they decide it's easier just to pay for the next month. I paid 401 for 1 account this month, to extend my game time, and I wouldn't want to pay more. Frankly, I felt like I was ripping my arm off and handing it to the guy. Yet, when I sell PLEX in better times, I feel cheated at around 300 or less, with just over 300 being acceptable, but a bit of a letdown. Better times do not really make money worth less to me, and ISK has very little value in game. Lately I've come to think of Billions as Millions, given that they really don't amount to much. It's extra zero's, but they might as well follow a decimal place, for all they're worth. Back when I started playing a Billion seemed significant, but after some time and experience, I've come to realize that it's really petty change, and relatively meaningless. Personally, I think the kauffle over AUR, PLEX, and Micro-Transactions is a load of tripe, and not worth much overall either. Call it what you want, it's really just hype. Probably the only thing driving PLEX up right now, and organized by the parties who hold that PLEX. Wouldn't surprise me anyway. Micro-transactions are insignificant and won't impact or change the game at all. CCP could sell Faction ships, ore, minerals, or anything else for real money through conversion, and it wouldn't change anything. You know why? Because it's already there. So cut the crap, ditch the drama and move on.
Stella SGP The Kimotoro Initiative	Posted - 2011.06.02 06:17:00 - [151] Edited by: Stella SGP on 02/06/2011 06:36:15 Originally by: Jita Bloodtear Here's an actual case study for you. I currently have 41 long term active accounts which are entirely paid for by PLEX. I'm a mass multiboxing miner who does all sorts of highsec things, research corps, market games, freightering, etc. I am not a bot and never have been. I am seriously considering suspending anywhere between 30 to 38 of my accounts because the PLEX situation is growing out of hand. It's becoming less and less worth my time to spend dozens of hours each month, only to break even. Now it makes total sense that I'm using PLEX, as I'm in no way going to fork over $615 a month to upkeep my accounts. But CCP is still getting $615 a month from me, which as far as I'm concerned makes me one of their most important customers. Now I'm looking at cutting their monthly income by $570/month just by myself. The conglomeration of multiboxers who we play with are also preparing to follow suit, thus leading to a shut down of anywhere between 60-90 accounts. This isn't a threat or a complaint or anything, it's just that under the current trends of the ingame market we can no longer sustain this many accounts Lol, so you feel entitled to 41 accounts then. Can't afford it? Close the accounts. Here's a hypothetical case study for you. I currently buy 41 PLEXes every month to sell and those are all paid for by cash. I like blowing things up for no good reasons and get blown up pretty often in the process. Sometimes I find it thrilling to self destruct them too! I don't engage in RMT and never have. I am seriously considering suspending the purchase of anywhere between 30 to 38 PLEXes a month because the price of PLEX is rising too slowly. It's becoming less and less worth my money to spend hundreds of dollars each month only to break even. Now it makes total sense that I'm using PLEX, as I'm in no way going to spend endless hours a month grinding ISK to maintain my silly habits. CCP is getting $615 a month from me, which as far as I'm concerned it makes me one of their most important customer, way more so then those who pay for game time with virtual money. Now I'm looking at cutting their monthly income by $570/month just by myself. The conglomeration of fail PvPers whom I play with are also preparing to follow suit, thus leading to anywhere between 60-90 PLEXes not being purchased from CCP. This isn't a threat or a complaint or anything, it's just that under the current trends of the ingame market we can no longer sustain the rate at which our ships get popped. Originally by: Jita Bloodtear While I know this is intended to be an insult aimed at me declaring myself a valuable customer, but you're really missing the point of what I said. My case is significant because it represents the larger issue, which is that multiboxers cannot sustain their accounts as this trend continues. This represents thousands and thousands of accounts. My subgroup of this larger group of people is around 60-90 accounts. The point I was making was that this isn't a theoretical argument about what "might be", but instead of what is. My case is significant because it represents the larger issue, which is that people buying PLEXes to sell for ISK cannot satisfy their need for ISK as this trend continues. This represents thousands and thousands of people. My subgroup of this larger group of people buys around 60-90 PLEXes per month. The point I was making was that this isn't a theoretical argument about what "might be", but instead of what is. Who are you to tell me that my $15 dollars is only worth 300+ mils? I'll happily sell them for as much as I can get away with thank you.
Aylara	Posted - 2011.06.02 09:13:00 - [152] If possible, set "time to die" on PLEX and be done with it. Just don't make it too long though.
Lisa Starblazer Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.06.02 09:48:00 - [153] Originally by: Jita Bloodtear Here's an actual case study for you. I currently have 41 long term active accounts which are entirely paid for by PLEX. I'm a mass multiboxing miner who does all sorts of highsec things, research corps, market games, freightering, etc. I am not a bot and never have been. I am seriously considering suspending anywhere between 30 to 38 of my accounts because the PLEX situation is growing out of hand. It's becoming less and less worth my time to spend dozens of hours each month, only to break even. Now it makes total sense that I'm using PLEX, as I'm in no way going to fork over $615 a month to upkeep my accounts. But CCP is still getting $615 a month from me, which as far as I'm concerned makes me one of their most important customers. Now I'm looking at cutting their monthly income by $570/month just by myself. The conglomeration of multiboxers who we play with are also preparing to follow suit, thus leading to a shut down of anywhere between 60-90 accounts. This isn't a threat or a complaint or anything, it's just that under the current trends of the ingame market we can no longer sustain this many accounts thank you. Actually if you stop playing 38 of your accounts, your not costing CCP a dime since you aren't paying for them with $$$. What you are doing is helping reduce the inflation of PLEX prices (less demand), and likely reducing the flow of ISK into the Eve economy (if you rat/mission on any of them). With that in mind and the topic of this thread, you'd be doing alot of the complainers a favour, so you should probably go ahead and cancel your 38 play for free accounts....
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2011.06.02 09:54:00 - [154] Originally by: Achurraa I guess some people are in the same boat, I created extra accounts for all those "extra" alts, you know, the extra miner, the extra buidler, etc. But with Plex prices climbing as they are, making enough isk to pay for 5 accounts translates into more time "working" in EVE. I simply do not have that much free time, and went from casual player to super casual (lol), 4 of the 5 accounts have been cancelled. Hopefully I can still get Plex to keep some of them going, but as it is I cbf with a second job and simply do not have the RL cash to throw into this game. Then again, with the Incarna Expansion (and zero gameplay), I'm not gonna miss much. But like many said, CCP might fix this still ... When the plex was 350m, you can supply 5 accounts which cost 1750m isk per month. After the plex price rise to 400m, you say you have to cancel 4 of 5 accounts otherwise you will not able to afford. That is only to say you just have your income droped 1350m per month, and you have to drop 4 accounts despite whether the plex's price raised or not
Tshien Tze Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.02 10:29:00 - [155] Once you understand the basics of a market economy, things become clear. Plex is on the rise because of an increased demand, more people are buying it (speculators I guess). Also, the economy being what it is, fewer people are purchasing plex and dropping it on the market. They don't feel it's a good value for their money. Now as Plex prices rise, more of these people may begin to see a value of ISK/$ and start buying plex again, putting more plex on the market and easing demand. Also, if a few of that alts out there stop buying plex, demand drops and so does the price. In short, plex will always correct itself. Just because the price may go up does not mean the system is broken. Inflation of Plex may itself be a correction.
Jita Bloodtear	Posted - 2011.06.02 10:40:00 - [156] Lot's of bitterness in here, but that's okay. You're right that my PLEX consumption only contributes to the inflation of PLEX prices. And yes, I'm letting 28 accounts expire by the end of the month, haven't made up my mind about the others yet. PLEX prices will come down again once the demand for them decreases enough - at which point many of us will have lost our zeal for the game entirely, and might not power up again. Regardless, CCP couldn't consider the cancellation of large numbers of accounts to be good for them. --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System
clixor Celluloid Gurus	Posted - 2011.06.02 10:40:00 - [157] Originally by: Tshien Tze In short, plex will always correct itself. Just because the price may go up does not mean the system is broken. Inflation of Plex may itself be a correction. True, but you're forgetting the new uses for PLEX (account tranfer, AUR) which increases demand as well. The system might work, but if you change the rules all the time... What people are forgetting there is clearly a breaking point where it's not longer sustainable to afford 3+ accounts (with PLEX). Ofcourse, if you make profit (after plex) with those accounts, you're likely to still make a profit after PLEX prices double. But.. people start dropping accounts if the profit they make in terms of ISK is so small it doesn't justify the work required (example, say i make 500m per account, after plex doubles i make 200m per account. Does 600m profit in total -or whatever- is worth logging in daily, setting up jobs all the time). People WILL drop accounts, and small time invention/manufacturing will take a serious hit. But, to me, CCP is all happy about this, they want to increase revenue per account (with microtransactions), and less accounts per player. Characters will become more special with all the personification and EVE will move more to other MMO's.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:04:00 - [158] Originally by: Lisa Starblazer Originally by: Jita Bloodtear Here's an actual case study for you. I currently have 41 long term active accounts which are entirely paid for by PLEX. I'm a mass multiboxing miner who does all sorts of highsec things, research corps, market games, freightering, etc. I am not a bot and never have been. I am seriously considering suspending anywhere between 30 to 38 of my accounts because the PLEX situation is growing out of hand. It's becoming less and less worth my time to spend dozens of hours each month, only to break even. Now it makes total sense that I'm using PLEX, as I'm in no way going to fork over $615 a month to upkeep my accounts. But CCP is still getting $615 a month from me, which as far as I'm concerned makes me one of their most important customers. Now I'm looking at cutting their monthly income by $570/month just by myself. The conglomeration of multiboxers who we play with are also preparing to follow suit, thus leading to a shut down of anywhere between 60-90 accounts. This isn't a threat or a complaint or anything, it's just that under the current trends of the ingame market we can no longer sustain this many accounts thank you. Actually if you stop playing 38 of your accounts, your not costing CCP a dime since you aren't paying for them with $$$. What you are doing is helping reduce the inflation of PLEX prices (less demand), and likely reducing the flow of ISK into the Eve economy (if you rat/mission on any of them). With that in mind and the topic of this thread, you'd be doing alot of the complainers a favour, so you should probably go ahead and cancel your 38 play for free accounts.... Learn some basics of supply and demand. Less demand means prices of plexes would go down, so less people will convert their real money to isk. Tbh I think this whole situation will fix itself. But CCP may end up with some less accounts. Not that it matters to them if it does mean they get to sell more vanity items for real money. --- Drykor - AHARM
Xenuria Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:38:00 - [159] Edited by: Xenuria on 04/06/2011 15:40:12 Originally by: Sig Sour Solution: $10 PLEX If they make plex 10$ then I could afford to buy one every week. I do not need approval from my supervisor to spend 10$ on anything. So if they made an option to buy single plex for 10$ I would sooo do it like as much as possible. OMFG PLEASE CCP PLEASE!!!! I promise I will NEVER Pod Kill another CCP alt for as long as I live. /beg Your signature is too large. Maximum permitted signature size is 24,000 bytes. Spitfire Vote Support For Great Justice
Morist Intheli	Posted - 2011.06.04 16:49:00 - [160] Not to be a party pooper with the big discussion, but plex prices always rise before the AT, and always drop after it. Not like this is the first time they've hit 400 mil.
pmchem Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.04 17:48:00 - [161] This thread is a nice demonstration of the contradictory demands of CCP's playerbase. There are threadnaughts about RMT and botting. There are dozens of threads about PLEX prices rising. Yet, to remove the economic motive RMT and botting, PLEX prices must rise. At a certain point there is no longer any advantage to buying RMT isk compared to buying a GTC and selling its PLEX in jita, so the RMT bots go out of business. So, what do players care about more? RMT and botting or PLEX prices? I'm guessing RMT and botting. What does CCP care about? People who pay $ to sub their accounts or $ to buy GTC and sell PLEX in jita both benefit from higher PLEX prices and lower RMT/botting, so why should CCP care if PLEX prices rise? It benefits the players that give them $ and makes for a healthier long-term playerbase.
Jamie Freely Gallente Merchants Exports Rising Phoenix Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.04 17:59:00 - [162] Originally by: Stella SGP Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36 For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games and those that simply refuses to fork out cash are just being cheap. For those who can afford it, but other payment methods are not accessible, I feel for you. Other then that, I don't see a problem with increasing PLEX prices. Edit - As for increasing PLEX prices, yea it'll probably affect subscriptions, but I'd suspect most of them would be Alt accounts anyway. Its not the $15 per month issue, its the $15*10 accounts = $150 month. Not that I care as I have been trimming down my accounts anyways and I sit on more isk than most but its all the extra accounts that will be canceled in this not the primary accounts. Those extra accounts help small alliances do things like have a capital fleet and scouts, or indy skills and pvpers. With stealing so much part of the game and with so much that has to be done to build capitals many have to use alt accounts to pull this off. Next you will say that you shouldn't do so much on your own but with capital building you have nearly 5 caps worth of mats in the pipeline at any one time so you want to turn that over to some guy?? that you only know online? You want a JF full of moon goo to be moved by some random or BPOs or what ever in the reach of people that have no real risk if they steal it? To do what big alliances do that requires a handful of people to have alt corps/or alliances like me<--alt to a titan and supercap pilots and former builder that have an extra 100 billion that can hold on to BPOs and move 20 billion in assets because for the most part its more profitable for us to do the daily grind to finish and sell the ships than to make a single score. But I don't care anymore as I am moving on but don't be stupid and think that eve is just a one account game for the end users; because in its basic design it forces people to have many roles to fill.
Jamie Freely Gallente Merchants Exports Rising Phoenix Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.04 18:02:00 - [163] Originally by: Tshien Tze Once you understand the basics of a market economy, things become clear. Plex is on the rise because of an increased demand, more people are buying it (speculators I guess). Also, the economy being what it is, fewer people are purchasing plex and dropping it on the market. They don't feel it's a good value for their money. Now as Plex prices rise, more of these people may begin to see a value of ISK/$ and start buying plex again, putting more plex on the market and easing demand. Also, if a few of that alts out there stop buying plex, demand drops and so does the price. In short, plex will always correct itself. Just because the price may go up does not mean the system is broken. Inflation of Plex may itself be a correction. Its on the raise because American schools only go 3/4 a year and school is out, so more broke ass kids sitting at home playing games. But fear not in the fall when those same kiddys go back to school plex demand will fall and prices will go back down, till winter time and then pick back up a bit then down till next summer.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 18:07:00 - [164] Originally by: pmchem ...so why should CCP care if PLEX prices rise? sell 150,000 units at $15 you end up with $2,250,000 revenue. sell 300,000 units at $10 you end up with $3,000,000 revenue. People can squabble all they want about $15 but when people such as myself have cut back from 5 to 2 accounts, they may be missing out on potential revenue they could get if they lowered the price.
Imiarr Timshae Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats	Posted - 2011.06.04 18:33:00 - [165] All I can really comment is that I will never, ever again pay for this broken, bloody-nosed, degrading game. PLEX or quit. ----- Originally by: GM Horse Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things. Originally by: CCP Shadow Tragic smelting accidents.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.04 18:59:00 - [166] Speculation is driving the price increase. Quote: Is CCP considering this possible outcome of being tampering with the PLEX system beyond it's original design? why should they and why should you care.. if you know something is coming you should prepare.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.04 19:29:00 - [167] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 04/06/2011 19:34:35 Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: pmchem ...so why should CCP care if PLEX prices rise? sell 150,000 units at $15 you end up with $2,250,000 revenue. sell 300,000 units at $10 you end up with $3,000,000 revenue. People can squabble all they want about $15 but when people such as myself have cut back from 5 to 2 accounts, they may be missing out on potential revenue they could get if they lowered the price. You're missing parts of the equasion. If CCP sells 10 plexes they earn $175 but if they in turn are used to get gametime they lose $150 so the net profit is just $25. If CCP sells 10 plexes they earn $175 but if 5 are used to get gametime and 5 are used for AUR vanity stuff they only lose $75 so the net profit is $100. If CCP only sells 4 plexes they earn $70 and if 3 are used to get gametime and 1 is used for AUR vanity stuff they lose $45 so the net profit is still $25. So if the number of sold plexes drop a little CCP still makes a lot more profit when the plexes are partially used for AUR vanity stuff. I think CCP wil only interfere if the break even point between less plexes sold/more profit made drops under the profit they made before AUR stuff. Which won't happen anytime soon as every plex turned into AUR makes them 7 times as much profit as a plex that's redeemed as gametime.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 19:46:00 - [168] Originally by: Jennifer Starling You're missing parts of the equasion. If CCP sells 10 plexes they earn $175 but if they in turn are used to get gametime they lose $150 so the net profit is just $25. If CCP sells 10 plexes they earn $175 but if 5 are used to get gametime and 5 are used for AUR vanity stuff they only lose $75 so the net profit is $100. If CCP only sells 4 plexes they earn $70 and if 3 are used to get gametime and 1 is used for AUR vanity stuff they lose $45 so the net profit is still $25. So if the number of sold plexes drop a little CCP still makes a lot more profit when the plexes are partially used for AUR vanity stuff. I think CCP wil only interfere if the break even point between less plexes sold/more profit made drops under the profit they made before AUR stuff. Which won't happen anytime soon as every plex turned into AUR makes them 7 times as much profit as a plex that's redeemed as gametime. Are you drunk? The only way they lose revenue is if they refund money to customers. I don't know what their costs are so I cant speak profits. The thing is if people say "I am only willing to spend $20 on Eve this month" and the price brackets are in $15 increments, they lose out on the potential $5 someone was willing to spend. The service PLEX offers is being extended to micro transactions which would, in an AMERICAN company, cause the business to review its pricing to balance it by services available/customer base/potential revenue. I'm not sure if Icelandic companies is that business savvy or if they just go with the flow. I guess we will see.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.04 19:46:00 - [169] You are all whiners. It's EVE. You are bound to get burned. If you are unable to cope with the situation, boo-F-ing-hoo. Who says you need to have 115 accounts? PLEX is a commodity like any other, it jumps in prices in relation to the supply and demand. Now, when someone manipulates the market and puts you in an ISK-losing position, do you whine here? No. When someone destroys your super capital, do you whine to anybody? Well, yes, but you don't really go out making demands for CCP's intervention. Consider your accounts an item in the sea of EVE. You're bound to lose it if you are not good enough. Now, stop being a child, go back to EVE and make your ISK like a man. The prices will self-correct. I don't mean to sound harsh, but people, get serious. It wouldn't kill you to support EVE every once in a while with an actual payment.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.04 19:51:00 - [170] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 04/06/2011 19:53:45 Originally by: Sig Sour Are you drunk? The only way they lose revenue is if they refund money to customers. I don't know what their costs are so I cant speak profits. Well I hope you do understand that if I buy a plex for $17.50 but use it for 30 days of gametime CCP misses out on 1 month of subscription worth $15 - so their net profit for selling the plex is just $2.50? And no I just had a few white wines. Are you drunk?
kloio	Posted - 2011.06.04 19:52:00 - [171] hey maybe plex aren't raising in price.. maybe isk just lowers in value. Is there inflation in eve?
Jita Ling Jo	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:03:00 - [172] LOL @ 41 accounts.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:09:00 - [173] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Well I hope you do understand that if I buy a plex for $17.50 but use it for 30 days of gametime CCP misses out on 1 month of subscription worth $15 - so their net profit for selling the plex is just $2.50? And no I just had a few white wines. Are you drunk? edit: You're basically asking to lower the subscription to $10 a month. Which isn't going to happen. :facepalm: I must be stupid, go ahead an explain to me how giving them $17.50 for a subscription for a month turns into $2.50 they can pay their employees & electrical bills with.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:11:00 - [174] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 04/06/2011 20:13:31 Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Jennifer Starling Well I hope you do understand that if I buy a plex for $17.50 but use it for 30 days of gametime CCP misses out on 1 month of subscription worth $15 - so their net profit for selling the plex is just $2.50? And no I just had a few white wines. Are you drunk? edit: You're basically asking to lower the subscription to $10 a month. Which isn't going to happen. :facepalm: I must be stupid, go ahead an explain to me how giving them $17.50 for a subscription for a month turns into $2.50 they can pay their employees & electrical bills with. I was comparing the effect of rising plex prices, AUR items on CCP's profit from plexes, not from normal subscriptions. And you were still asking to lower the subscription to $10 so you could play with 5 accounts instead of 2.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:20:00 - [175] Originally by: Jennifer Starling I was comparing the effect of rising plex prices, AUR items on their profit from plexes, not from normal subscriptions. And you were still asking to lower the subscription to $10 so you could play with 5 accounts instead of 2. You said they only make $2.50 profit off a $17.50 plex that was sold. I still don't follow your logic, and you do not seem to be able to explain it. I suggested they review their pricing, I never asked for it.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:26:00 - [176] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Jennifer Starling I was comparing the effect of rising plex prices, AUR items on their profit from plexes, not from normal subscriptions. And you were still asking to lower the subscription to $10 so you could play with 5 accounts instead of 2. You said they only make $2.50 profit off a $17.50 plex that was sold. I still don't follow your logic, and you do not seem to be able to explain it. Well you must be drunk then, I'm so sorry :) 1) I buy a plex, CCP gets $17.50; 2) I redeem the plex for gametime or sell it on the market and someone else uses it for gametime; 3) I (or the plex buyer) get 30 days of gametime "free" instead of paying subscription worth $15; 4) CCP doesn't get my (or someone else's) $15 subscription this month; 5) CCP got my $17.50 though for the plex but not my $15 for subscription so they still have an extra $17.50 - $15.00 = $2.50 profit from selling a plex that's being used for gametime. That's $2.50 on top of any profit they make from the regular $15.00, be it $0.01 or $14.99.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:46:00 - [177] Originally by: Jennifer Starling 1) I buy a plex, CCP gets $17.50; 2) I redeem the plex for gametime or sell it on the market and someone else uses it for gametime; 3) I (or the plex buyer) get 30 days of gametime "free" instead of paying subscription worth $15; 4) CCP doesn't get my (or someone else's) $15 subscription this month; 5) CCP got my $17.50 though for the plex but not my $15 for subscription so they still have an extra $17.50 - $15.00 = $2.50 profit from selling a plex that's being used for gametime. That's $2.50 on top of any profit they make from the regular $15.00, be it $0.01 or $14.99. If the plex is used for AUR or character transfer or whatever they get the full $17.50 on top of any profit they make from the regular $15.00, not instead. So for any plex not used for adding gametime they earn 7 times as much from plex. So even if the plex sales decrease by 50% they earn a lot more as long as they¦re not used for gametime but AUR or transfers or whatever. So is what you are trying to say is that "CCP makes additional revenue off PLEX being used for game time as opposed to subscription fees"? You should look up "profit" and figure out what that word means. If that is what you are trying to say, then what does that have to do with my original statement?
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:51:00 - [178] Originally by: Jennifer Starling edit: understand that if I buy a plex for $17.50 but I (or someone else) use it for 30 days of gametime CCP misses out on 1 month of subscription worth $15 - so their net profit for selling the plex is just $2.50. Quoted for when you sober up and use a dictionary to figure out what you said there.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:56:00 - [179] Originally by: Sig Sour So is what you are trying to say is that "CCP makes additional revenue off PLEX being used for game time as opposed to subscription fees"? You should look up "profit" and figure out what that word means. Yes they do, that's part of it. Quote: If that is what you are trying to say, then what does that have to do with my original statement? You said about plex "sell 150,000 units at $15 you end up with $2,250,000 revenue. sell 300,000 units at $10 you end up with $3,000,000 revenue." You're not taking into account that those sold plexes are being used for gametime so are actually only "instead of" subscription not "on top of".
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.06.04 21:10:00 - [180] I pay for 5500 accounts through plex every month and I buy probably 100-200 plex for each acount every month as spending money (i like to play my way don't judge) anyways, if things don't go my way i might stop buying roughly 1 million plex every month and ccp should really think about that because i'm forreals yo --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.06.04 21:19:00 - [181] Originally by: Jennifer Starling You're not taking into account that those sold plexes are being used for gametime so are actually only "instead of" subscription not "on top of". Want a cookie? You know I also was not counting the difference between buying PLEX and GTC's from a resller or straight from CCP, how that affects the fluctuation margins between the time code bizarre and PLEX on the market by region, and what that does to the revenue stream at CCP. Nor was I discussing the impact of real world economics vs in game economics and how the health of the game as a whole reflects PLEX prices to start with. These kinds of things were not mentioned, because it was a basic demonstration. Thank you for trying too hard.
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.06.04 21:25:00 - [182] Originally by: Aelius Somewhere there is a balance that keeps PLEX at a certain ISK price, BUT that balance is about to shift. As you might notice PLEX price as risen and it will continue to rise this is a possible outcome scenario: -"Poor" players start leaving EVE because the amount of "EVE work" to buy a PLEX is simply too much to enjoy the game, some will simply change back to monthly fee. But many will surely leave EVE. -As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more. Eventually hordes of players will start to leave or changing to a subscription fee (those who can), the ones who can't will leave making EVE "smaller" by big numbers in a short/medium period of time. I guess the number of leaving players and the number of plexes split into AUR will eventually even each other out?
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.06.04 22:35:00 - [183] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Originally by: Aelius Somewhere there is a balance that keeps PLEX at a certain ISK price, BUT that balance is about to shift. As you might notice PLEX price as risen and it will continue to rise this is a possible outcome scenario: -"Poor" players start leaving EVE because the amount of "EVE work" to buy a PLEX is simply too much to enjoy the game, some will simply change back to monthly fee. But many will surely leave EVE. -As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more. Eventually hordes of players will start to leave or changing to a subscription fee (those who can), the ones who can't will leave making EVE "smaller" by big numbers in a short/medium period of time. I guess the number of leaving players and the number of plexes split into AUR will eventually even each other out? The point is not that markets won't work themselves out. Of course they will. The problem is that there is no reason markets will settle at a level that will attract and retain the maximum number of players or even create the maximum income for CCP from the existing players. Suppy of plexes is based on how many players are interested in the game enough to pay extra to play the game . Interest, not value is the main driver. If they aren't interested no price is right. Too high of prices create game balance issues between paying customers and paying more customers (even ignoring the play for free players). Too high of prices can start actually decreasing sales if players can get all of their game needes filled selling less plex for more isk. Its conceivable that the balance could swing to a price that power industrial, trader, characters sale players still find worth it (even if thats only 1/2 the current number that would be enough if 1/2 the number of players interested enough in the game to pay extra) Say that balanced at 800million . It could reach a vicious cycle with people quitting because they thing the game is unbalanced, people quitting because they can't sometimes play for free and pay other times (or split pay for one account, use isk for the second), or rat or mine to sustain alts etc. Still some people with piles of isk and established enterprises would find that high price cutting into profits but still worthwhile if the opperation were making 10 billion a month. Owners of tech moons might need that industrial account paid, ...many other places where some demand would exist at very high and in balanciing price levels. The presumption that more people will get interested in paying extra for a game because the game currency is cheaper and they can get farther ahead with less money just doesnt hold water. Even with that there would be no guarantee because its still apples to oranges and what is beeing balanced is players on two extremes, not the motivations of the vital group in the middle.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.06.04 22:49:00 - [184] Originally by: Tshien Tze Once you understand the basics of a market economy, things become clear. Plex is on the rise because of an increased demand, more people are buying it (speculators I guess). Also, the economy being what it is, fewer people are purchasing plex and dropping it on the market. They don't feel it's a good value for their money. Now as Plex prices rise, more of these people may begin to see a value of ISK/$ and start buying plex again, putting more plex on the market and easing demand. Also, if a few of that alts out there stop buying plex, demand drops and so does the price. In short, plex will always correct itself. Just because the price may go up does not mean the system is broken. Inflation of Plex may itself be a correction. There is no proof that its the economy or value that dictates the number of plex bought with $ and sold for isk That is a factor of how many people are interested in playing the game. Sure , the price might move the percentage of those people up or down, and likewise have some effect on the number they buy...but the number of isk the get isn't the pivotal point. You're not going to pay at all , especially not pay extra for a game you're not enjoying. What those Plex are sold for will be a matter of competition amoung the isk>plex crowd to the marignal profital price that will meet the supply that has very little to do with price.
Narisa Bithon Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn	Posted - 2011.06.04 22:57:00 - [185] Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 04/06/2011 22:59:28 1 positive thing about the op's statement is that bots will be more expensive to operate also aurum will be a passing fancy for most eve players. most players dont really give a hoot what outfit their toon has on.... i know i dont give a crap.
Aerethir Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.05 19:20:00 - [186] I feel weird now for having one account O.O But not bashing anyone, each to their own :)
Orthaen	Posted - 2011.06.05 19:26:00 - [187] Originally by: Narisa Bithon Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 04/06/2011 22:59:28 1 positive thing about the op's statement is that bots will be more expensive to operate also aurum will be a passing fancy for most eve players. most players dont really give a hoot what outfit their toon has on.... i know i dont give a crap. Maybe the it'll be a passing fancy for the current playerbase, but the playerbase CCP is trying so hard to attract? They'll go nutty over character customization. Blizzard could make a killing if they offered paid character customization, even just recolors. In related news, CCP should umm...stop trying to attract more different players. You have a niche, fill it! If you try to please everyone and make many dollars you'll end ****ing off everyone. Except the nincompoops, I suppose. It works out pretty well for other MMOs though, so I suppose give it a try? No wait, dont. I like EVE.
J Random Tax Protestants	Posted - 2011.06.05 20:17:00 - [188] Gad this entire threats make me remember the massive amount of folk we have on Eve from socialist countries. Guys, COMMAND ECONOMIES DO NOT WORK. The only way for CCP to fix this is to introduce price ceilings and/or manipulate the supply. Regardless of whether you follow the PSST or AS/AD model this will ultimately fail as it will devalue PLEX's for folk that use real money to buy them and will, in the end, cost CCP real money. The wonders of free markets is the market will fix itself. If we lose 25% of alt's, that's not a bad thing. If kids have to spent their allowance now on Eve instead of "bath salts", E, or whatever the fashionable drug of the week is or condoms, not going to cry. As for the people that can't afford PLEX'es, give me a break. I spend more on coffee in a week than what a plex cost. Hell my four year old daughter can afford a monthly PLEX on her allowance (US$10 a week) if she played Eve. For that dude working 42 hours and playing eve 80, go get a part time job at McDonalds, work 2 hours a week, and go buy yourself a plex and get back to enjoying the game instead of mining 80 hours to get enough money to pay for a PLEX.
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.06.06 23:39:00 - [189] Originally by: Orthaen Maybe the it'll be a passing fancy for the current playerbase, but the playerbase CCP is trying so hard to attract? They'll go nutty over character customization. Blizzard could make a killing if they offered paid character customization, even just recolors. In related news, CCP should umm...stop trying to attract more different players. You have a niche, fill it! If you try to please everyone and make many dollars you'll end ****ing off everyone. Except the nincompoops, I suppose. It works out pretty well for other MMOs though, so I suppose give it a try? No wait, dont. I like EVE. CCP is a company and they want to make more money every year. Although I think they'd better improve the new player experience to get a better retention instead of advertising like there's no tomorrow and let you walk in a captain's quarter (which I like, I just doubt if Incarna will be really fun and enjoyable within a reasonale timeframe).

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