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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Bleck Mether
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:36:00 -
[61]
Oh noes! A computer game I'm playing has some minor graphical bugs after the implementation of a complex new patch?!
Aaaaaaaaaa, what do?
I could be patient while CCP acknowledge and fix said bugs. BUT NO! THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A PERSONAL INSULT AIMED DIRECTLY AT ME!!
SKY.. FALLING.. DOWN..
RAGE!!
RABLE RABLE RABLE!!
TOTAL IGNORANCE!!
COMPLETE INTOLERANCE!!
GENERAL BIGOTRY!!
THREATEN TO CANCEL SUB, AGAIN!!
PERSONAL INSULT #36 AT CCP DEVS!!
Business as usual then. Keep up the good work CCP, most of us <3 EVE even though its not utterly perfect all of the time.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:39:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: The entire forum
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Could we possibly see a decrease of number in bugs (both introduced by newer patches or the old ones) in the future or is it impossible "for this size of a game"?
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Gangster101 PureLove
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:43:00 -
[63]
Yea, and I despise trolls trolls trolls. You guys complain about anything and everything under the sun.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:44:00 -
[64]
Oh, another Calathea Sata thread.
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Andreus Ixiris
CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Catalytic morphisis
Disciples of Trepidity
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:45:00 -
[65]
I only found one bug with the new patch, And its a good one! My legion Flies Backwards. I personally dont mind this as its quite humourous
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:51:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
So all these bugs are normal?
Pretty much "by design". I stopped reporting them and did delete my bugreports. Not worth it.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:52:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Barakkus on 01/06/2011 11:54:42
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Originally by: The entire forum
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Could we possibly see a decrease of number in bugs (both introduced by newer patches or the old ones) in the future or is it impossible "for this size of a game"?
I'm sure they try to release code that doesn't break as much, but it's really, really hard to get something out the door that doesn't have something new broken in it...especially when you have multiple people touching the code. I used to be 1 of 2 developers working on the majority of the internal tools/software at my job...the other guy was my boss and rarely fixed anything, so it was much easier to deal with...added another programmer last year and the amount of bugs going out tripled. It happens, especially when someone who didn't originally write the code touches it...70% of the time you touch one piece of code, it will break 4 or 5 other things the more complicated your software is...
I've had to fix numerous cases where the other guy commented something out that needed to be in there but didn't realize it because it affected code somewhere else in the project, or it was a corner case fix that was applied and didn't appear to really be useful at first glance. I usually spend a week patching the patch, rinse, repeat...atm, as far as I can tell, there are no bugs to fix with anything out in production, but stuff always pops up...even 5 or 6 months later...Usually I won't add anything new until all the "known" bugs have been squished, then I'll release new code so I can begin the fix cycle for a few more weeks. CCP doesn't have that luxury because they have a certain development schedule they need to adhere to, I have complete control over what gets done and when.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Aston Martin DB5
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Oh, another Calathea Sata thread.
^^
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Brannor McThife
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.06.01 11:55:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Brannor McThife on 01/06/2011 11:56:18
Why don't you just give everyone 2 free games days after Patch Day? I mean, that way, you get free mass testing of the patch and people can't complain that they're paying for buggy code.
And if major bugs persist, extend the free time... that'd also drive your QA to be mor thorough, and would stop your BAs, etc. pushing for more (sudden) releases with known bugs.
I work in IT in the financial world...sure, there are bugs, but you get penalised big time for big bugs. Because EvE is a game, you don't actually face those same penalties (maybe some people quit playing, but nothing like millions of $$$ fines), so there's no true urgency/drive to have perfect code.
EvE is a game, it'll never meet the same drive for perfection that RL business systems strive for. Just doesn't seem necessary. It's a great GAME, but your life and wealth don't depend on it...so why fret so much about the bugs?
-G
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So'rren
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Posted - 2011.06.02 15:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: coolzero
some people are such "know it all's)
if you feel you can do a better job feel free to look here
work for CCP
Yeah, I thought about that, I just can't afford the pay cut. If they had a competitive salary then maybe.
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Zleon Leigh
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Posted - 2011.06.02 15:51:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Solstice Project
Originally by: CCP Guard
Knowing how big the underlying changes were and how much dedication and work the QA guys upstairs put into making the patch as pain free as possible for you guys, I just want to say how uplifting it is to see so many of you make an effort to put things into perspective. Like everything else in the EVE universe it means the most when coming from you.
-CCP Guard
We love you guys. In some non-homosexual way.
Just keep up the work. You're doing good.
People just forget that it's NOT self evident to be here.
I believe they should be reminded of that ... ban 'em hard and teach 'em a lesson.
That will stop the whining, if it's just done harsh enough.
Thx. ^^ *hugs* <3
Apparently CCP has developed a pretty good sized herd of sheep.
QA management has failed on this release. Big changes mean you double down on QA and upper management gets a clue that if something is not ready to release - you suck it up and DO NOT release.
Having to release to a 100K (or whatever bragging rights number CCP marketing chooses to pull out of space) user base is a sorry excuse for a failed release. If platform diversity is an issue - you field a huge beta program. That is an software deployment standard. That said - when large parts of a fundamental feature are broken (PI for example)there is no way it could have been tested to even a minimal degree.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.06.02 17:12:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bleck Mether
.....
RABLE RABLE RABLE!!
....
Hell ya that's what im talking about 
RABLE RABLE RABLE!!RABLE RABLE RABLE!!
Never miss out on a good Rable
also good point 
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.02 18:16:00 -
[73]
I want to take a minute and address not if there are bugs (there are) or should there be bugs (there will be in any piece of complex coding, which Eve is), but how bugs get found, reported and handled by most professional development areas.
Speaking for our development team, we have four classifications of bugs:
BLOCKERS
These are the OMG, FIX IT NAO bugs - bugs that prevent QA from even testing the product in an adequate fashion.
Tier 1
These are problems that don't stop testing but are so problematic that they have to fixed before the release hits production or our collective asses will be in a sling.
Tier 2
This is a bug with minimal impact to the product as a whole. it may be inconvenient, and it may require the user to work around it, but the product itself is still useable (or in Eve's case, playable)
Tier 3
This is normally reserved for cosmetic changes with no real impact on the product (someone misspelled a word on a screen is a good example).
For EVE, here are some examples I would use
BLOCKER: BOOT.INI (Sorry guys, there's no excuse for that one making it out of development and past QA)
Tier 1: Getting stuck while jumping systems that happened back when Apocrypha deployed.
Tier 2: The current glitch with the capacitor display, the T3s flying backwards, etc.
Tier 3: The spelling changes that get made in nearly every release.
So what does this have to do with our game? Why all the BUGGGGGGGGSSSSSS?!?!?! RAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEE!!!!!
Well, it's a trade off. In our shop, anything classified as a blocker or Tier 1 has to be fixed prior to the production deploy.
But wait - that leaves two whole tiers of bugs. You betcha - those are bugs we decided we can live with and will fix either in a fix pack or the next major deploy (we do four a year). But we do KNOW about them.
So why didn't you fix them you lazy, stupid programmers?
That's pretty simple too - I like to spend part of my time at home, and not live in my office 24x7, so somethings just aren't going to get done.
tl;dr: Just because you find a bug doesn't mean CCP doesn't know about it. They may have deemed it to be acceptable in the short term are, even as you rage incoherently on the forums, working on a fix to be deployed later. All your rage is doing is showing you don't have a clue how software development is done when the number of developers exceeds 1, and the number of users is measured in the thousands (or tens of thousands).
--Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.06.02 18:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
...
So why didn't you fix them you lazy, stupid programmers?
That's pretty simple too - I like to spend part of my time at home, and not live in my office 24x7, so somethings just aren't going to get done.
...
You need to learn to fix things faster then. j/k
Good explanation.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.06.02 19:10:00 -
[75]
It's lines and lines of code slapped together by guys with too little sleep and too much coffee.
They are having to get their software to work on millions of different configurations of hardware and software. Its not like a construction trade where using inferior workmanship can actually land you in jail if it goes wrong. They wash their hands of all responsibility with a EULA. Sure software could be made to work flawlessly, but that would necessitate having a software engineer come to your home and test on your machine for every change. If you want to pay thousands of dollars for every patch, then I'm sure it could happen without many hiccups. Until every single PC user in the world uses the exact same piece of hardware with the exact same set of software then there are going to be bugs.
There is the whole software industry mentality of release now, fix later. It's more cost effective to let your users do all the testing and fix as you go. It's not like a mechanical or electrical installation where it could actually kill people when it ****s up.
tl:dr Money and no legal responsibility for damage.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.02 20:02:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: De'Veldrin
...
So why didn't you fix them you lazy, stupid programmers?
That's pretty simple too - I like to spend part of my time at home, and not live in my office 24x7, so somethings just aren't going to get done.
...
You need to learn to fix things faster then. j/k
Good explanation.
LOL. Don't let my boss hear you say that. I've got him convinced it's the build process that takes so long.
--Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry
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Posted - 2011.06.02 20:10:00 -
[77]
show brackets keeps getting reset after each gate jump
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.02 22:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Commandante Caldari
Second: the DL of the patch took 4 minutes here, the installation 10 minutes and it looks fine so far. There are some glitches or call them bugs. I don't care because the game is huge, complex and most important: running on thousands different computers. Different hardware, gfx, drivers, different OS and important: different messed up PC's. Everyone who works with computers for a long time is aware that a PC is not a PC. Even the same setup is not the same depending on what you install, what you update or what kind of tools you use to frakk up your system or registry. Whatever. It's a huge task to deliever a piece of state of the art game like EVE what runs perfectly on ALL systems. It's nearly impossible, even with a test server because the ppl there are not 100% representing the community. Some are too lazy to report bugs. Some just use it for Arcade gaming. Some try to support CCP. Whatever. It is normal - I repeat: NORMAL - that a new release isn't perfect. Some ppl have crashes, strange bugs, some whine, some yell, some are just stupid kids, some understand, some - like me - just keep on playing because the game isn't broken (to me). I learned especially by EVE: A) patience (CCP will fix it) B) Patience (CCP will hopefully fix old stuff) C) Patience (CCP will probably change things - but I don't care) D) I will not whine, complain, rage, emo... because I simply adapt to changes even if they are painful E) CCP is looking forward and the game is getting better and best of all: it's all for free and not for extra money. OMG, just imagine the HATE if CCP would dare to charge for a big update most of the whiners don't want to have because they believe they paid for a right to patronise CCP and call them a bunch of loosers.
Thank you so much for that breath of fresh air...the forums were starting to smell funny after this last patch, they needed it. 
~Gnosis~ |
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