| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy
   |
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:48:00 -
[1]
Have you not seen what have been happening? Have you not noticed the bugs and small broken stuff are easily avoidable if CCP actually have had a proper QA? Don't you not have the impression of CCP acting like a 3-man studio when in fact they should have grown up to a much bigger and more competent company? Why is CCP refusing to grow up? Where is our money going into? Our times invested, our blood and tears, for the sake of a better EVE, why is it not showing any light? Why is the incompetence not fading away? Why, do we still expect CCP to grow more and more bugs everytime, but without making a noise about it? Why, why is it a stalemate?
|
Mr Dilkington
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:49:00 -
[2]
If your not happy go and play on another game that nevr has bugs,
oh hang on a minute,
There are not any.
|
Gavriel Black
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:50:00 -
[3]
Welcome to the world of software development.
|
voiddragon
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:51:00 -
[4]
Tbh, the only thing ccp need to do to make me happy with eve is the ability to ignore posts and threads by certain characters. Seriously, it's like the same 10 people.
|
Ripley Nostromo
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:54:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: voiddragon
Tbh, the only thing ccp need to do to make me happy with eve is the ability to ignore posts and threads by certain characters. Seriously, it's like the same 10 people.
Exactly. Whiners always whining. If they are so unhappy p1ss off and play online bingo...
|
Catherine Airuta
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:54:00 -
[6]
OP, hai...
You are not a software developer i see. You are making statements showing ignorance in the realm of software development. Please stop.
fly safe...
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:56:00 -
[7]
Honestly, if the whining stops on the forum, then that's when I will start to worry
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:56:00 -
[8]
No testing environment will ever accurately simulate what can go wrong when code is introduced to software that has 50k people interacting with it and each other (in extremely complex and unpredictable ways) in real time.
Bugs sometimes not being caught in testing is the risk we take playing in a one-of-a-kind software environment of this size and complexity.
=====
The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Doc Fury
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:57:00 -
[9]
Well, to be fair, creating and testing 500MB of replacement code in a few months is a LOT, so things are bound to be wonky somewhere just due to scale. Taking a function that works, and replacing it entirely and correctly on the first go can be tricky.
However, this is also exactly what happens when the majority of your resources are focused on other projects, and you have to depend more heavily on volunteers/paid beta testers a.k.a. EVE players for your QA/QC.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:02:00 -
[10]
Exactly, why do we the players have to beta test your game EVERYTIME a patch comes out? Or more precisely why isn't EVE out of beta? Why is everything so basic frameworky and without elaboration? EVE can be a good game but why ISN'T IT?
|
Phobos Kashada
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gavriel Black
Welcome to the world of software development.
I clicked this thread in hopes of being able to say this. YOU'RE FIRED.
|
Mr Dilkington
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Exactly, why do we the players have to beta test your game EVERYTIME a patch comes out? Or more precisely why isn't EVE out of beta? Why is everything so basic frameworky and without elaboration? EVE can be a good game but why ISN'T IT?
May i advise a cup of warm milk, a toss, and a lie down in a dark room.
|
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:04:00 -
[13]
You've clearly never done software development.
If you don't like it, there are other games but as someone has already said, they have bugs too. It goes back to the likelihood that you've never done large scale (or heck, small scale) software development. This is what happens. Did you know that some software is even released (put in a box and sent to stores) with KNOWN bugs in them? 
For the record, I think CCP is doing a pretty amazing job. 
|
Calathea Sata
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:06:00 -
[14]
So all these bugs are normal?
|
voiddragon
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Exactly, why do we the players have to beta test your game EVERYTIME a patch comes out? Or more precisely why isn't EVE out of beta? Why is everything so basic frameworky and without elaboration? EVE can be a good game but why ISN'T IT?
Troll.
|
Mr Dilkington
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
So all these bugs are normal?
Yes, its a part of online gaming.
|
raney ilara
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Have you not seen what have been happening? Have you not noticed the bugs and small broken stuff are easily avoidable if CCP actually have had a proper QA? Don't you not have the impression of CCP acting like a 3-man studio when in fact they should have grown up to a much bigger and more competent company? Why is CCP refusing to grow up? Where is our money going into? Our times invested, our blood and tears, for the sake of a better EVE, why is it not showing any light? Why is the incompetence not fading away? Why, do we still expect CCP to grow more and more bugs everytime, but without making a noise about it? Why, why is it a stalemate?
um what bug? did you report it in the proper location?
|
Jefferson H Clay
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mr Dilkington
Originally by: Calathea Sata
So all these bugs are normal?
Yes, its a part of online gaming.
Which does open up a discussion over if it should be part of online gaming. If it were part of single player or even multiplayer games in general people would be, quite rightly, complaining about it and possibly even demanding refunds.
But simply because it's an MMO we're supposed to accept highly buggy software releases. It's frankly not a distinction I make and nor should you. True, no programmer sets out to write bad code (I know I don't) but simply because a game is an MMO should not excuse it from being a buggy mess and the flack that generates.
|
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gavriel Black
Welcome to the world of software development.
This tbh.
-
[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Orlacc
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Exactly, why do we the players have to beta test your game EVERYTIME a patch comes out? Or more precisely why isn't EVE out of beta? Why is everything so basic frameworky and without elaboration? EVE can be a good game but why ISN'T IT?
Why the hell are you playing it then?!
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:46:00 -
[21]
wait did someone just say that one player games don't have bugs?
as apast game tester at nintendo, every game I ever tested had huge bugs that just were hard to find. Just go online and yotube search for bugs in modern games.
modern warfare
sonic
mass effect 2
mario galaxy
dirt 2 software related bug
mirrors edge
even wow 
Is there is no major outcry because it's it's how it has always been and how it always will be.
|
Bek Thyron
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
So all these bugs are normal?
Stop trolling already  you are not even good...
And yes, bugs are "expected". Eve is like a giant Jenga-Tower, but at least CCP managed somehow not to crash the tower.
In b4 "OMG BOOT.INI"
**** ****
Please send me mail if you want to sell big piles of corpses. Must be in mint condition. (space-frozen)
|
JackStraw56
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:54:00 -
[23]
The code I write always compiles without errors on the first try and never has any bugs at all. I don't know what CCP's problem is
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: JackStraw56
The code I write always compiles without errors on the first try and never has any bugs at all. I don't know what CCP's problem is
move out of your moms basement and go make a real piece of software with 40 other people all writting code.
|
Jefferson H Clay
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: MotherMoon
wait did someone just say that one player games don't have bugs?
No. I actually said that there is generally more acceptance in an MMO being buggy (be it show stoppers or minor niggles) than there is a single player game and that this should not be the case.
I did not, at any point, state that single player games or indeed regular multiplayer games are bug free. Nor do I feel the language I used could be construde that way.
So... U JELLY?
|
Mister Rocknrolla
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:05:00 -
[26]
I used to be able to play games from beginning to end without hitting a bug. Back when games were on cartridges and there was no method to update/patch. Not saying there weren't bugs, but I never saw them.
Sure, they're more complex these days, and they have to program to myriad platforms but I believe that a lot (most) game companies subscribe to the "ship-then-patch" philosophy. Why? Because they can.
The first corollary to "ship-then-patch" is "What are they going to do? Play a different game?"
|
Mister Rocknrolla
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bek Thyron
Originally by: Calathea Sata
So all these bugs are normal?
Stop trolling already you are not even good...
And yes, bugs are "expected". Eve is like a giant Jenga-Tower, but at least CCP managed somehow not to crash the tower.
In b4 "OMG BOOT.INI"
I like these responses. So CCP created some incredibly awful bug a few years ago, and instead of being a badge of shame, it's a badge of honor. Not only that, as long as they don't destroy your OS, regardless the severity of any bug they introduce, they (and many players) can just say "Hey, at least it's not as bad as boot.ini"
Newthink at it's best.
|
Caren Patriach
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Caren Patriach on 01/06/2011 02:16:02
the picture is broken and i see my self as a hashasin huehehhehe
|
Jefferson H Clay
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
players) can just say "Hey, at least it's not as bad as boot.ini"
Newthink at it's best.
EVE came out after the rise of NT and its siblings (3.51, NT4, 2K, XP, etc) 3 of those listed I know have BOOT.INI. Designing a game which has a file, named exactly the same as a core OS file of a popular OS your game is likley to encounter is... dumb. "Get out and don't bother asking for a refferance" grade dumb. Patching that file and not having insane levels of sanity checking surrounding it, to make absolutley sure you don't have a space between C:\ and the location of your file... is a similar grade of dumb.
It's also a lesson in thou shall not run as Administrator and anything trivial (like a game) that requires such can bugger off and be ignored as a waste of disk space.
It's a badge of shame and CCP will be wearing it for a good long time as far as I'm concerned.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
players) can just say "Hey, at least it's not as bad as boot.ini"
Newthink at it's best.
EVE came out after the rise of NT and its siblings (3.51, NT4, 2K, XP, etc) 3 of those listed I know have BOOT.INI. Designing a game which has a file, named exactly the same as a core OS file of a popular OS your game is likley to encounter is... dumb. "Get out and don't bother asking for a refferance" grade dumb. Patching that file and not having insane levels of sanity checking surrounding it, to make absolutley sure you don't have a space between C:\ and the location of your file... is a similar grade of dumb.
It's also a lesson in thou shall not run as Administrator and anything trivial (like a game) that requires such can bugger off and be ignored as a waste of disk space.
It's a badge of shame and CCP will be wearing it for a good long time as far as I'm concerned.
It is, however they are also allowed to poke fun at themselves about it. To believe they view it as a badge of honor is Trollthink at its best.
=====
The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Jefferson H Clay
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:39:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ranger 1
It is, however they are also allowed to poke fun at themselves about it. To believe they view it as a badge of honor is Trollthink at its best.
True dat. Got no problems with the video they did of throwing the guy of the roof (even made my laugh) but... yeah.
|
voiddragon
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
Originally by: Ranger 1
It is, however they are also allowed to poke fun at themselves about it. To believe they view it as a badge of honor is Trollthink at its best.
True dat. Got no problems with the video they did of throwing the guy of the roof (even made my laugh) but... yeah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXRFJ2ar_E
|
Jefferson H Clay
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:46:00 -
[33]
Originally by: voiddragon
Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
Originally by: Ranger 1
It is, however they are also allowed to poke fun at themselves about it. To believe they view it as a badge of honor is Trollthink at its best.
True dat. Got no problems with the video they did of throwing the guy of the roof (even made my laugh) but... yeah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXRFJ2ar_E
Nice. No, I'm not bookmarking it.... why do you ask *supicious look*
|
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:47:00 -
[34]
OP obviously has never programmed anything sophisticated.
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Jefferson H Clay
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 03:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
OP obviously has never programmed anything sophisticated.
You pulled WHAT from WHERE?!!? ARE YOU SEVEN SHADES OF STUPID! DO NOT PUSH THAT BACK! *watches CVS tree explode*
Does the OP want to program anything complex and sophisticated? That's the question. :D
|
Zverofaust
Gallente
Incompertus INC
Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 03:29:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Zverofaust on 01/06/2011 03:30:10
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Have you not seen what have been happening? Have you not noticed the bugs and small broken stuff are easily avoidable if CCP actually have had a proper QA? Don't you not have the impression of CCP acting like a 3-man studio when in fact they should have grown up to a much bigger and more competent company? Why is CCP refusing to grow up? Where is our money going into? Our times invested, our blood and tears, for the sake of a better EVE, why is it not showing any light? Why is the incompetence not fading away? Why, do we still expect CCP to grow more and more bugs everytime, but without making a noise about it? Why, why is it a stalemate?
You are just fantastic levels of ******ation. I can just imagine legions of people like you who sit at their desks in a constant never-ending state of overwhelming anger, white knuckles ready to explode onto your keyboards the moment a patch hits or something goes wrong so you can **** up the forums with your nerdrage.
|
Angel of Night
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 04:15:00 -
[37]
Waitress! There is sewer rat in my IPhone and my IPhone is in my soup. |
Atreus Venom
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 05:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: MotherMoon
wait did someone just say that one player games don't have bugs?
as apast game tester at nintendo, every game I ever tested had huge bugs that just were hard to find. Just go online and yotube search for bugs in modern games.
modern warfare
sonic
mass effect 2
mario galaxy
dirt 2 software related bug
mirrors edge
even wow
Is there is no major outcry because it's it's how it has always been and how it always will be.
yeah hard to find would be understandable but as a tester for a game lets use mario for instance... would you miss something like when u press the jump button he crouched or you press right on the d-pad and mario starts running left.. i would hope not.. then why when i stop my ship and then press max speed my ship turns around and goes backwards... thats not small thats moderate sized bug
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 05:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Atreus Venom
Originally by: MotherMoon
wait did someone just say that one player games don't have bugs?
as apast game tester at nintendo, every game I ever tested had huge bugs that just were hard to find. Just go online and yotube search for bugs in modern games.
modern warfare
sonic
mass effect 2
mario galaxy
dirt 2 software related bug
mirrors edge
even wow
Is there is no major outcry because it's it's how it has always been and how it always will be.
yeah hard to find would be understandable but as a tester for a game lets use mario for instance... would you miss something like when u press the jump button he crouched or you press right on the d-pad and mario starts running left.. i would hope not.. then why when i stop my ship and then press max speed my ship turns around and goes backwards... thats not small thats moderate sized bug
But a dev already commented on how to fix this. clear the cache, it's your computer doing that.
But yes I see your point, and raise that all the games I posted go through 6 months of testing. And yet still have bugs. Do you want eve expansions and pathes to wait 6 months for testing? for stuff that will be uaght faster with release? all eve patches go through 3-4 weeks of testing by QA. they miss stuff, but normally nothing too big. eve has had it's goof ups though lol boot.ini
but in the end I would rather no wait 6 months for something I know is done and working.
|
Atreus Venom
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 05:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Atreus Venom
Originally by: MotherMoon
wait did someone just say that one player games don't have bugs?
as apast game tester at nintendo, every game I ever tested had huge bugs that just were hard to find. Just go online and yotube search for bugs in modern games.
modern warfare
sonic
mass effect 2
mario galaxy
dirt 2 software related bug
mirrors edge
even wow
Is there is no major outcry because it's it's how it has always been and how it always will be.
yeah hard to find would be understandable but as a tester for a game lets use mario for instance... would you miss something like when u press the jump button he crouched or you press right on the d-pad and mario starts running left.. i would hope not.. then why when i stop my ship and then press max speed my ship turns around and goes backwards... thats not small thats moderate sized bug
But a dev already commented on how to fix this. clear the cache, it's your computer doing that.
But yes I see your point, and raise that all the games I posted go through 6 months of testing. And yet still have bugs. Do you want eve expansions and pathes to wait 6 months for testing? for stuff that will be uaght faster with release? all eve patches go through 3-4 weeks of testing by QA. they miss stuff, but normally nothing too big. eve has had it's goof ups though lol boot.ini
but in the end I would rather no wait 6 months for something I know is done and working.
i understand that and honestly these bugs didnt surprise me and thanks for the update3 on that fix.... but with the release date for incarna im sure they are scrambling to get everything ready.. plus the added pressure of problems found after this patch release and with the pixel shadeing and everything they are working with i think they are alright
|
Lidia Prince
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 07:05:00 -
[41]
Calathea, get on a treadmill and learn to troll. Your latest threads are fatter than ever.
|
|
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 07:37:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ranger 1
No testing environment will ever accurately simulate what can go wrong when code is introduced to software that has 50k people interacting with it and each other (in extremely complex and unpredictable ways) in real time.
(Obligatory disclaimer: I am in no way related to software development or QA, and writing a "Hello world" program in C++ back in high school was the pinnacle of my programming career.)
I believe the quote above sums the situation up pretty accurately. Speaking specifically of Incursion 1.6, this patch pretty much involved introducing a whole new user interface framework into EVE (there is a dev blog for those interested in more details). It involved doing a lot of quite complex work (some of you might remember this dev blog on UI corification from last year), and touching a lot of code.
But all this work allows for some pretty cool things. Some of them are coming in Incarna (the new UI in Captain's Quarters), others will be introduced in the future.
Spitfire
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online |
|
tla s'hpyt
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 08:16:00 -
[43]
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2273/nobugs.jpg
Image changed to a link. Spitfire
|
coolzero
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 08:22:00 -
[44]
some people are such "know it all's)
if you feel you can do a better job feel free to look here
work for CCP
|
Myfanwy Heimdal
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 08:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: JackStraw56
The code I write always compiles without errors on the first try and never has any bugs at all. I don't know what CCP's problem is
Mine too. If I just restrict it to displaying "Hello, World."
The trouble is that when one writes something a little more complicated then bugs appear. I'm about to go and fix one of my howlers which has been reported by a client this morning.
Bugs sadly happen. No matter how much work has gone into trapping and zapping them they always appear. I've been hacking code for over thirty years and I haven't met anyone who can write bug free applications and I know some pretty damn fine developers.
|
Commandante Caldari
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 09:25:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Commandante Caldari on 01/06/2011 09:33:09
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Have you not seen what have been happening? Have you not noticed the bugs and small broken stuff are easily avoidable if CCP actually have had a proper QA? Don't you not have the impression of CCP acting like a 3-man studio when in fact they should have grown up to a much bigger and more competent company? Why is CCP refusing to grow up? Where is our money going into? Our times invested, our blood and tears, for the sake of a better EVE, why is it not showing any light? Why is the incompetence not fading away? Why, do we still expect CCP to grow more and more bugs everytime, but without making a noise about it? Why, why is it a stalemate?
First: you need to work on your style of writing - probably drop a game like EVE if you believe that you are the big money paying unsatisfied and frustrated customer (or just a young smart*ss without life experience yet - but there is hope, believe me) - and do some research about A) software development B) what it means to run a huge corp like CCP, paying bills, salaries... I will not go into the details. They would be too boring for you. I am just sure that guys like you would be totally overstrained if professionals like me who run a RL corp with 20 employees for over 10 years just try to explain 10% of such a business. Let me just tell you: it's a huge task and it's impressive what CCP delivers.
Second: the DL of the patch took 4 minutes here, the installation 10 minutes and it looks fine so far. There are some glitches or call them bugs. I don't care because the game is huge, complex and most important: running on thousands different computers. Different hardware, gfx, drivers, different OS and important: different messed up PC's. Everyone who works with computers for a long time is aware that a PC is not a PC. Even the same setup is not the same depending on what you install, what you update or what kind of tools you use to frakk up your system or registry. Whatever. It's a huge task to deliever a piece of state of the art game like EVE what runs perfectly on ALL systems. It's nearly impossible, even with a test server because the ppl there are not 100% representing the community. Some are too lazy to report bugs. Some just use it for Arcade gaming. Some try to support CCP. Whatever. It is normal - I repeat: NORMAL - that a new release isn't perfect. Some ppl have crashes, strange bugs, some whine, some yell, some are just stupid kids, some understand, some - like me - just keep on playing because the game isn't broken (to me). I learned especially by EVE: A) patience (CCP will fix it) B) Patience (CCP will hopefully fix old stuff) C) Patience (CCP will probably change things - but I don't care) D) I will not whine, complain, rage, emo... because I simply adapt to changes even if they are painful E) CCP is looking forward and the game is getting better and best of all: it's all for free and not for extra money. OMG, just imagine the HATE if CCP would dare to charge for a big update most of the whiners don't want to have because they pay for their right to patronise CCP and call them a bunch of loosers.
(need a break because I had a hysterical laughter)
I just can recommend to everyone like the OP - and we have too many in this game: calm down, get knowledge first before you post and most important: learn to understand how business like CCP works and you will be more relaxed, happy and finally: blessed by wisdom. PRICELESS!
|
GKO
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 09:46:00 -
[47]
Edited by: GKO on 01/06/2011 09:46:48
I hereby confirm that it was nearly impossible to see all that bugs in the patch. Take for example the capacitor and its problem with light, I only managed to notice it after logging in.
Thanks QA department for the great work.
|
Misunderstood Genius
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 09:47:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Misunderstood Genius on 01/06/2011 09:52:36
Originally by: coolzero
some people are such "know it all's)
if you feel you can do a better job feel free to look here
work for CCP
Yeah, probably he can make it to a CEO position and we all will have the outstanding, bug-free, blob-fixed , ECM-fixed, afk-cloaking EVE for 0,00 bucks per months. Can't wait to see this soon (TM).
|
Prince Spiderman
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 09:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: GKO
Edited by: GKO on 01/06/2011 09:46:48
I hereby confirm that it was nearly impossible to see all that bugs in the patch. Take for example the capacitor and its problem with light, I only managed to notice it after logging in.
Thanks QA department for the great work.
Who cares about the capacitor? 
|
Myfanwy Heimdal
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 09:59:00 -
[50]
To be honest I have no problems here with the Capacitor display at all. Perhaps it's just me.
|
Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 09:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Have you not seen what have been happening? Have you not noticed the bugs and small broken stuff are easily avoidable if CCP actually have had a proper QA? Don't you not have the impression of CCP acting like a 3-man studio when in fact they should have grown up to a much bigger and more competent company? Why is CCP refusing to grow up? Where is our money going into? Our times invested, our blood and tears, for the sake of a better EVE, why is it not showing any light? Why is the incompetence not fading away? Why, do we still expect CCP to grow more and more bugs everytime, but without making a noise about it? Why, why is it a stalemate?
You are so fracking stupid I want to shoot you in the head. Seriously, you must be an incredible ignorant whiner to make a post like this.
|
|
CCP Guard
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 10:17:00 -
[52]
Knowing how big the underlying changes were and how much dedication and work the QA guys upstairs put into making the patch as pain free as possible for you guys, I just want to say how uplifting it is to see so many of you make an effort to put things into perspective. Like everything else in the EVE universe it means the most when coming from you.
-CCP Guard
|
|
Solstice Project
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 10:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Exactly, why do we the players have to beta test your game EVERYTIME a patch comes out? Or more precisely why isn't EVE out of beta? Why is everything so basic frameworky and without elaboration? EVE can be a good game but why ISN'T IT?
Wow, your stupidity hurts.
Language 1o1.
It's a good game. (oppinion)
Bugs don't make games bad. (fact)
They make them buggy. (fact)
Now get pregnant or something.
|
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 10:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Walextheone
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Have you not seen what have been happening? Have you not noticed the bugs and small broken stuff are easily avoidable if CCP actually have had a proper QA? Don't you not have the impression of CCP acting like a 3-man studio when in fact they should have grown up to a much bigger and more competent company? Why is CCP refusing to grow up? Where is our money going into? Our times invested, our blood and tears, for the sake of a better EVE, why is it not showing any light? Why is the incompetence not fading away? Why, do we still expect CCP to grow more and more bugs everytime, but without making a noise about it? Why, why is it a stalemate?
You are so fracking stupid I want to shoot you in the head. Seriously, you must be an incredible ignorant whiner to make a post like this.
I guess you have no idea how full life cycle development works then? I guess you have worked within a QA team then and fully aware of what software testing is and involves? and what the outcomes are? I assume you know what regression testing is? and hows it supposed to identify when new code affects existing functionality. I guess your a QA Manager with years of experience to make a statement like this?
|
Solstice Project
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 10:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Guard
Knowing how big the underlying changes were and how much dedication and work the QA guys upstairs put into making the patch as pain free as possible for you guys, I just want to say how uplifting it is to see so many of you make an effort to put things into perspective. Like everything else in the EVE universe it means the most when coming from you.
-CCP Guard
We love you guys. In some non-homosexual way.
Just keep up the work. You're doing good.
People just forget that it's NOT self evident to be here.
I believe they should be reminded of that ... ban 'em hard and teach 'em a lesson.
That will stop the whining, if it's just done harsh enough.
Thx. ^^ *hugs* <3
|
Ayame Yubari
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:02:00 -
[56]
What's funny is that you can go to any game or MMO forum and you will read the exact same allegations. Go to the WoW forum with Blizzard being one of the most professional developers known to men and even there you will read the same stuff - how incapable the devs are, how there are way too many bugs and so on and so forth.
You have to realize that software development itself is very, very hard and bugs are inevitable. Furthermore, game development (especially for complex games like EVE) is probably the most complicated field a developer can choose, next to maybe scientific software or such. Game development often means achieving the impossible. It's often a miracle this stuff works at all.
So stop worrying about bugs, help CCP with the debugging by proper bug reporting, and be glad that the game is working pretty well most of the time.
|
Headerman
Minmatar
Element 115.
Raiden.
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:06:00 -
[57]
OP has obviously never played a game made by EA.
|
Mr Kidd
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
It involved doing a lot of quite complex work
But all this work allows for some pretty cool things.
Uh, yeah, see that's great. We're actually excited that the UI might be getting re-thought. Unfortunately, there's not much of the game that isn't bugged right now with the release of 1.6. So, what? Did you guys not see any bugs when you tested or did you just not test? Wait, what am I doing? Of course you didn't test it. Hell, you probably saw the bugs and pushed it out the door anyway. Am I right?
|
tigerchips
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Headerman
OP has obviously never played a game made by EA.
Confirmed.
|
Cosmoes
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:26:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Cosmoes on 01/06/2011 11:31:57
Originally by: Solstice Project
Bugs don't make games bad. (fact)
Well yes and no. Having bugs doesn't make it bad. But the more bugs they have the worse it is. And in that regard eve has a lot of bugs.
And yes I am in software development and any code I write has bugs, lots of them, sometimes more than CCP.
But CCP has a LOT of bugs, even compared to other games. They are putting in some effort but quite frankly that effort isn't half of what it should be.
Lets take an example that won't cause too much forum rage Chat channels (not local):
You know how when you have time stamp the text tends to bleed past the line it should and merge with the next line of chat or just get cut off?
How long has this bug been around?
How about the blinking chat channels that we get, they could be anything from 30 man fleet is about to jump you or some guy is making a **** joke in the intel channel. We have to keep constantly clicking back between channels to check these sort of things. Most other MMO's don't have this problem because you can receive more than 1 chat channels input in 1 box, why can't we set up a channel window to do this? Our chat system does a lot of things other MMOs don't do but it's got some flaws that the others don't which could be fixed if they put in some effort.
I'm sure there's some technical reason why it is a massive pain to fix/implement. I'm also sure someone will say this is low priority and they will get around to eventually.
But CCP have rebuilt facebook specifically for eve, rebuilt teamspeak specifically for eve as well as various other smaller things (calender, etc.) all to help us communicate better. Yet our basic communication method still has bugs and flaws.
CCP just aren't very good at refining or making quality content. They can make very high tech and cutting edge content. But there are differences between that and high quality, well refined content.
-------------------
piccy |
Bleck Mether
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:36:00 -
[61]
Oh noes! A computer game I'm playing has some minor graphical bugs after the implementation of a complex new patch?!
Aaaaaaaaaa, what do?
I could be patient while CCP acknowledge and fix said bugs. BUT NO! THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A PERSONAL INSULT AIMED DIRECTLY AT ME!!
SKY.. FALLING.. DOWN..
RAGE!!
RABLE RABLE RABLE!!
TOTAL IGNORANCE!!
COMPLETE INTOLERANCE!!
GENERAL BIGOTRY!!
THREATEN TO CANCEL SUB, AGAIN!!
PERSONAL INSULT #36 AT CCP DEVS!!
Business as usual then. Keep up the good work CCP, most of us <3 EVE even though its not utterly perfect all of the time.
|
Calathea Sata
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:39:00 -
[62]
Originally by: The entire forum
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Could we possibly see a decrease of number in bugs (both introduced by newer patches or the old ones) in the future or is it impossible "for this size of a game"?
|
Gangster101 PureLove
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:43:00 -
[63]
Yea, and I despise trolls trolls trolls. You guys complain about anything and everything under the sun.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:44:00 -
[64]
Oh, another Calathea Sata thread.
-----
Andreus Ixiris
CEO, Mixed Metaphor
|
Catalytic morphisis
Disciples of Trepidity
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:45:00 -
[65]
I only found one bug with the new patch, And its a good one! My legion Flies Backwards. I personally dont mind this as its quite humourous
|
Lederstrumpf
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:51:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
So all these bugs are normal?
Pretty much "by design". I stopped reporting them and did delete my bugreports. Not worth it.
|
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:52:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Barakkus on 01/06/2011 11:54:42
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Originally by: The entire forum
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Could we possibly see a decrease of number in bugs (both introduced by newer patches or the old ones) in the future or is it impossible "for this size of a game"?
I'm sure they try to release code that doesn't break as much, but it's really, really hard to get something out the door that doesn't have something new broken in it...especially when you have multiple people touching the code. I used to be 1 of 2 developers working on the majority of the internal tools/software at my job...the other guy was my boss and rarely fixed anything, so it was much easier to deal with...added another programmer last year and the amount of bugs going out tripled. It happens, especially when someone who didn't originally write the code touches it...70% of the time you touch one piece of code, it will break 4 or 5 other things the more complicated your software is...
I've had to fix numerous cases where the other guy commented something out that needed to be in there but didn't realize it because it affected code somewhere else in the project, or it was a corner case fix that was applied and didn't appear to really be useful at first glance. I usually spend a week patching the patch, rinse, repeat...atm, as far as I can tell, there are no bugs to fix with anything out in production, but stuff always pops up...even 5 or 6 months later...Usually I won't add anything new until all the "known" bugs have been squished, then I'll release new code so I can begin the fix cycle for a few more weeks. CCP doesn't have that luxury because they have a certain development schedule they need to adhere to, I have complete control over what gets done and when.
-
[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Aston Martin DB5
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Oh, another Calathea Sata thread.
^^
|
Brannor McThife
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:55:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Brannor McThife on 01/06/2011 11:56:18
Why don't you just give everyone 2 free games days after Patch Day? I mean, that way, you get free mass testing of the patch and people can't complain that they're paying for buggy code.
And if major bugs persist, extend the free time... that'd also drive your QA to be mor thorough, and would stop your BAs, etc. pushing for more (sudden) releases with known bugs.
I work in IT in the financial world...sure, there are bugs, but you get penalised big time for big bugs. Because EvE is a game, you don't actually face those same penalties (maybe some people quit playing, but nothing like millions of $$$ fines), so there's no true urgency/drive to have perfect code.
EvE is a game, it'll never meet the same drive for perfection that RL business systems strive for. Just doesn't seem necessary. It's a great GAME, but your life and wealth don't depend on it...so why fret so much about the bugs?
-G
|
So'rren
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 15:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: coolzero
some people are such "know it all's)
if you feel you can do a better job feel free to look here
work for CCP
Yeah, I thought about that, I just can't afford the pay cut. If they had a competitive salary then maybe.
|
Zleon Leigh
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 15:51:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Solstice Project
Originally by: CCP Guard
Knowing how big the underlying changes were and how much dedication and work the QA guys upstairs put into making the patch as pain free as possible for you guys, I just want to say how uplifting it is to see so many of you make an effort to put things into perspective. Like everything else in the EVE universe it means the most when coming from you.
-CCP Guard
We love you guys. In some non-homosexual way.
Just keep up the work. You're doing good.
People just forget that it's NOT self evident to be here.
I believe they should be reminded of that ... ban 'em hard and teach 'em a lesson.
That will stop the whining, if it's just done harsh enough.
Thx. ^^ *hugs* <3
Apparently CCP has developed a pretty good sized herd of sheep.
QA management has failed on this release. Big changes mean you double down on QA and upper management gets a clue that if something is not ready to release - you suck it up and DO NOT release.
Having to release to a 100K (or whatever bragging rights number CCP marketing chooses to pull out of space) user base is a sorry excuse for a failed release. If platform diversity is an issue - you field a huge beta program. That is an software deployment standard. That said - when large parts of a fundamental feature are broken (PI for example)there is no way it could have been tested to even a minimal degree.
|
NinjaSpud
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 17:12:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bleck Mether
.....
RABLE RABLE RABLE!!
....
Hell ya that's what im talking about 
RABLE RABLE RABLE!!RABLE RABLE RABLE!!
Never miss out on a good Rable
also good point
|
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 18:16:00 -
[73]
I want to take a minute and address not if there are bugs (there are) or should there be bugs (there will be in any piece of complex coding, which Eve is), but how bugs get found, reported and handled by most professional development areas.
Speaking for our development team, we have four classifications of bugs:
BLOCKERS
These are the OMG, FIX IT NAO bugs - bugs that prevent QA from even testing the product in an adequate fashion.
Tier 1
These are problems that don't stop testing but are so problematic that they have to fixed before the release hits production or our collective asses will be in a sling.
Tier 2
This is a bug with minimal impact to the product as a whole. it may be inconvenient, and it may require the user to work around it, but the product itself is still useable (or in Eve's case, playable)
Tier 3
This is normally reserved for cosmetic changes with no real impact on the product (someone misspelled a word on a screen is a good example).
For EVE, here are some examples I would use
BLOCKER: BOOT.INI (Sorry guys, there's no excuse for that one making it out of development and past QA)
Tier 1: Getting stuck while jumping systems that happened back when Apocrypha deployed.
Tier 2: The current glitch with the capacitor display, the T3s flying backwards, etc.
Tier 3: The spelling changes that get made in nearly every release.
So what does this have to do with our game? Why all the BUGGGGGGGGSSSSSS?!?!?! RAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEE!!!!!
Well, it's a trade off. In our shop, anything classified as a blocker or Tier 1 has to be fixed prior to the production deploy.
But wait - that leaves two whole tiers of bugs. You betcha - those are bugs we decided we can live with and will fix either in a fix pack or the next major deploy (we do four a year). But we do KNOW about them.
So why didn't you fix them you lazy, stupid programmers?
That's pretty simple too - I like to spend part of my time at home, and not live in my office 24x7, so somethings just aren't going to get done.
tl;dr: Just because you find a bug doesn't mean CCP doesn't know about it. They may have deemed it to be acceptable in the short term are, even as you rage incoherently on the forums, working on a fix to be deployed later. All your rage is doing is showing you don't have a clue how software development is done when the number of developers exceeds 1, and the number of users is measured in the thousands (or tens of thousands).
--Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
|
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 18:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
...
So why didn't you fix them you lazy, stupid programmers?
That's pretty simple too - I like to spend part of my time at home, and not live in my office 24x7, so somethings just aren't going to get done.
...
You need to learn to fix things faster then. j/k
Good explanation.
-
[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Miso Hawnee
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:10:00 -
[75]
It's lines and lines of code slapped together by guys with too little sleep and too much coffee.
They are having to get their software to work on millions of different configurations of hardware and software. Its not like a construction trade where using inferior workmanship can actually land you in jail if it goes wrong. They wash their hands of all responsibility with a EULA. Sure software could be made to work flawlessly, but that would necessitate having a software engineer come to your home and test on your machine for every change. If you want to pay thousands of dollars for every patch, then I'm sure it could happen without many hiccups. Until every single PC user in the world uses the exact same piece of hardware with the exact same set of software then there are going to be bugs.
There is the whole software industry mentality of release now, fix later. It's more cost effective to let your users do all the testing and fix as you go. It's not like a mechanical or electrical installation where it could actually kill people when it ****s up.
tl:dr Money and no legal responsibility for damage.
|
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 20:02:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: De'Veldrin
...
So why didn't you fix them you lazy, stupid programmers?
That's pretty simple too - I like to spend part of my time at home, and not live in my office 24x7, so somethings just aren't going to get done.
...
You need to learn to fix things faster then. j/k
Good explanation.
LOL. Don't let my boss hear you say that. I've got him convinced it's the build process that takes so long.
--Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
|
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 20:10:00 -
[77]
show brackets keeps getting reset after each gate jump
|
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 22:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Commandante Caldari
Second: the DL of the patch took 4 minutes here, the installation 10 minutes and it looks fine so far. There are some glitches or call them bugs. I don't care because the game is huge, complex and most important: running on thousands different computers. Different hardware, gfx, drivers, different OS and important: different messed up PC's. Everyone who works with computers for a long time is aware that a PC is not a PC. Even the same setup is not the same depending on what you install, what you update or what kind of tools you use to frakk up your system or registry. Whatever. It's a huge task to deliever a piece of state of the art game like EVE what runs perfectly on ALL systems. It's nearly impossible, even with a test server because the ppl there are not 100% representing the community. Some are too lazy to report bugs. Some just use it for Arcade gaming. Some try to support CCP. Whatever. It is normal - I repeat: NORMAL - that a new release isn't perfect. Some ppl have crashes, strange bugs, some whine, some yell, some are just stupid kids, some understand, some - like me - just keep on playing because the game isn't broken (to me). I learned especially by EVE: A) patience (CCP will fix it) B) Patience (CCP will hopefully fix old stuff) C) Patience (CCP will probably change things - but I don't care) D) I will not whine, complain, rage, emo... because I simply adapt to changes even if they are painful E) CCP is looking forward and the game is getting better and best of all: it's all for free and not for extra money. OMG, just imagine the HATE if CCP would dare to charge for a big update most of the whiners don't want to have because they believe they paid for a right to patronise CCP and call them a bunch of loosers.
Thank you so much for that breath of fresh air...the forums were starting to smell funny after this last patch, they needed it.
~Gnosis~ |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |