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Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.12 05:02:00 -
[1]
I've been running some small gang outings with some friends, and I've come to the conclusion that it's always a good idea to have a fast dual-prop tackler w/ Scram. MWD obviously to catch them and the AB to help stay alive.
I was doing it myself with a Dramiel for a while, but I was wondering what the general opinion is on what would be the toughest dual-prop tackler? It has to have competitive speed, and then from there be tough (meaning... doesn't immediately melt to Warrior IIs, multiple webs, etc.). Damage is not a concern. I just want something that can get in, shut off the MWD, and then stay alive while the AB fit slower ships kill it.
I have to imagine there's something that can do it and is also significantly tougher than the Dramiel.
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Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.12 05:27:00 -
[2]
Something that can MWD tackle and then survive without an AB at all would also be a viable answer.
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.06.12 06:22:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Zondrail
I've been running some small gang outings with some friends, and I've come to the conclusion that it's always a good idea to have a fast dual-prop tackler w/ Scram. MWD obviously to catch them and the AB to help stay alive.
I was doing it myself with a Dramiel for a while, but I was wondering what the general opinion is on what would be the toughest dual-prop tackler? It has to have competitive speed, and then from there be tough (meaning... doesn't immediately melt to Warrior IIs, multiple webs, etc.). Damage is not a concern. I just want something that can get in, shut off the MWD, and then stay alive while the AB fit slower ships kill it.
I have to imagine there's something that can do it and is also significantly tougher than the Dramiel.
The Dram has high base armor/shield and four mid slots... are you really looking for something tougher, or could you do with playing with ranges? The Keres and the 'tackle' interceptors get bonuses to warp scram/disrupt range. I think the toughest of those would be the Malediction but that has only 3 mid slots, though the Keres would probably be the squishiest, it brings 5 mid slots and a damp bonus.
The Stiletto has four mid slots, a tackle interceptor's range bonus to warp disruptor/scrambler range, and turret damage/tracking speed bonuses for shooting at drones.
The Hyena has a web range bonus, if you'd rather web and disrupt and stay away, vs scrambling and staying away in an intercepter. It has a target painter bonus, too. If your buddies are in missile boats I'm sure that'd be their pick.
I'm very new and don't want to speak above my knowledge, but hopefully this is food for though?
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Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.12 06:34:00 -
[4]
Appreciate the input. I had taken a look at the Stiletto for being able to dual prop and have decent speed.
The Keres only get's bonus to Disruptor I believe, so doesn't do much for Scramming, and that's what I'm looking for.
I've been taking a long look a the Vengeance, it's ridiculous Explosive Damage resists on both armor and shields make this thing laugh in the face of Warrior IIs (all I ever see for small drones in PVP anymore). Problem is that it's definitely not a speedier ship, so it could probably catch the majority of MWD Cruisers/Battlecruisers (questionable on some cruisers), but for any MWDing Frigates (Dramiel, Imperial Slicer... those types) it's going to have to hide in the middle of the gang and will have to avoid going after them and just hope they fly into the midst of the gang (unlikely).
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Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.12 06:38:00 -
[5]
As far as the scram range bonused intys... seems like a joke right now to try and MWD + Scram those, since the bonus is so small, an overheated scram or web can reach out to it.
Obviously, if you want to be able to catch *everything* you have to go Dramiel. Anyone know of a list of all ships in the game ordered by base speed? I can't help but realize that when it comes to the "who can catch who while MWDing?" question, it really boils down to those rankings (speed mods aside) and every ship you move down that list excludes you from catching anything ranked higher than it.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.12 06:45:00 -
[6]
Keres is a p cool tackler. Not 'tough' per se but it could be of interets.
~~~
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.06.12 07:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 12/06/2011 07:30:44
You obviously can't tackle something faster then you, and if you got fast enough to tackle things in the speed class of other Dramiels and Interceptors you'd be so squishy they'd blow you away. I'd call that a lost cause without assuming a serious luck, gear, and SP difference.
Warp 'Disrupt' Probes have a 'Scramble' range?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_Disrupt_Probe
So does interdiction shut off MWD's?
All of the T2 destroyers are pretty quick.
Maybe what you're looking for.
Heavy Interdictors are much slower obviously, but if it stops MWD's they could do it from very far away with a script on their field generators to make it a targeted module.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.12 07:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
You obviously can't tackle something faster then you
Wrong
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
So does interdiction shut off MWD's?
No
~~~
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.06.12 07:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
You obviously can't tackle something faster then you
Wrong
...?
If you never get in range of tackle modules how would you tackle it? You cut out the part of the post you quoted about luck, so you obviously don't mean something faster then you happening to appear a few KM from you...
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Federation Lady
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Posted - 2011.06.12 07:57:00 -
[10]
Oh look a WoW player.
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.06.12 08:25:00 -
[11]
Oh look, another EVE elitist.
I like Spank, I've seen lots of her posts tonight on this slow night at work and she seems to help when a person can be helped. But overall I also see a ton of dumb **** like comments about WoW and blatantly flaming new players. I usually don't buy into trying to attribute behaviors to a whole community, good or bad, but I have to say EVE is the least friendly game community I've ever seen.
Sure DoTA games and FPS's have lots of people who turn into ******s when they're not winning, but people on EVE don't seem like angry action gamers. They seem intentionally hostile. I'm sure someone will say I'm mad now, but it was just an observation I felt like mentioning since I had a clear example in the thread.
Originally by: Lady Spank
No.
Go get some glasses or lower your screen resolution. Multiple overviews what is this.
lol...
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Federation Lady
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Posted - 2011.06.12 08:45:00 -
[12]
You posted **** and got called on it.
Deal wiz it.
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.06.12 08:52:00 -
[13]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 12/06/2011 08:56:51
Originally by: Federation Lady
You posted **** and got called on it.
Deal wiz it.
My way of dealing with it was to ask for an explanation. That actually happened before you ever posted, and was very reasonable.
You posted nonsense and got called on it.
Deal with it. 
EDIT--
I'm feeding it aren't I?
Sorry.
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Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
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Posted - 2011.06.12 09:47:00 -
[14]
Can't really go wrong with a taranis.
Not exactly the fastest but it's a tough little bastard.
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Who, me? |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.06.12 11:01:00 -
[15]
Jaguar, stilleto or... dram. Dont forget to fit nos, mse, dc and 125mm gatlings.
Rest is too slow, too fragile or too expensive.
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.12 11:18:00 -
[16]
sacrilege.
sure it's not fast, but I dunno if there is a tougher dual-prop tackler out there that can beat it
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.06.12 11:22:00 -
[17]
Even armor sfi is too slow for that, sacrilege is complete joke for tackling.
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Niveon
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Posted - 2011.06.12 11:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zondrail
The Keres only get's bonus to Disruptor I believe, so doesn't do much for Scramming, and that's what I'm looking for.
This is where you're wrong, and why you can tackle things that are faster than you. Same with the Hyena. |
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.12 11:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Even armor sfi is too slow for that, sacrilege is complete joke for tackling.
as a primary tackler yes, but as a secondary? who knows
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Swynet
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Posted - 2011.06.12 12:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
I usually don't buy into trying to attribute behaviors to a whole community, good or bad, but I have to say EVE is the least friendly game community I've ever seen.
You will hardly, if not any where else find such an arrogant, selfish and unsocial community than here.
Seems the major part of them are over 30. Well makes pity to see how bad some humans can get after puberty age, they become even more stupid than they were before.
Have fun reading the forums and playing the game, you'll find tons of them and you'll find that 12 years old kids in wow can be more respectable quite easy.
Don't care about any of them, make your own relations and every thing else is just pixels vomiting blah blah stuff.
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Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2011.06.12 12:06:00 -
[21]
You could always use an arazu. It's not fast tackle in the 'burn n point' way, but it can sneak within scram range then tackle. You get the benefit of suprise, a long range scram (use faction w/extra range if poss) and the ability to operate out of locking range once you sensor damp your target. The cruiser hull and T2 resists mean it's not gonna die to the drones either.
Tbh, a twin web rapier or even a pilgrim will do almost as well, but obviously used with a slightly different approach.
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Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
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Posted - 2011.06.12 14:56:00 -
[22]
Malediction.
Under rated boat, especially as a AB fit or a dual prop. It won't be half as fast as a Dramiel, but it will still pull decent speed for a frigate hull, and with relatively high native resists. Throw on an adaptive nano II and a small plate and it lasts longer than most expect.
No web if you go that route though.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.12 15:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Oh look, another EVE elitist.
I like Spank, I've seen lots of her posts tonight on this slow night at work and she seems to help when a person can be helped. But overall I also see a ton of dumb **** like comments about WoW and blatantly flaming new players. I usually don't buy into trying to attribute behaviors to a whole community, good or bad, but I have to say EVE is the least friendly game community I've ever seen.
Sure DoTA games and FPS's have lots of people who turn into ******s when they're not winning, but people on EVE don't seem like angry action gamers. They seem intentionally hostile. I'm sure someone will say I'm mad now, but it was just an observation I felt like mentioning since I had a clear example in the thread.
Originally by: Lady Spank
No.
Go get some glasses or lower your screen resolution. Multiple overviews what is this.
lol...
Pardon me, I was in bed.
How is me using two words to inform you of something being intentionally hostile?
I was succinct, if you take that as being rude then you probably need a thicker skin to read these forums. IF something is simply burning away from you at its max speed and outpacing you then you aren't going to catch him simply by chasing. You will have to try and cat and mouse them.
If they are running about like a loon or orbiting you at 24km or something then there are several manouvers available to bring them into scram range. You can look these up but here's a start.
I said wrong re. dictor bubbles/spheres/points simply because you were wrong. Why use 10 words when one will do.
~~~
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Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.06.12 17:02:00 -
[24]
I have been using dual-prop jaguars, fit with scrams, for some time in our gangs, and I have really enjoyed them. I dont have the exact fit, but:
3x 125mm AC II, small nos
Catalyzed MWD, T II AB, Jb5 scram, MSE II
DCU II, MAPC, Nano II
Extender, Poly rigs
9k ehp, scram for keeping stuff from burning back to gates, nos to keep scram on through neuting, and quite agile and fast enough for most things. Probably better out there, but this has worked well enough I havent searched for an alternative.
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Kastsumi Kobayariel
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Posted - 2011.06.12 20:09:00 -
[25]
Surprised that no one mentionned the Retribution yet. Five lows is pretty badass for a dualprop tackler.
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Caldarian Commander
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Posted - 2011.06.12 20:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
Surprised that no one mentionned the Retribution yet. Five lows is pretty badass for a dualprop tackler.
....and one med
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.06.12 21:16:00 -
[27]
Repping Vengeance/Malediction with twin nos does the job very nicely.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2011.06.12 21:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
Surprised that no one mentionned the Retribution yet. Five lows is pretty badass for a dualprop tackler.
I'd love to see a dual prop fit with 1 mid slot.
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.06.12 22:33:00 -
[29]
I didn't mean you Spank, I said I liked you! <3
Thank you for the link and you're right about maneuvers. I was more so thinking along the lines of chasing someone moving directly away, though.
Example Malediction pure tackle fit? What would you use for weapons to shoot down drones? Rockets with bonus vs Turrets vs Smartbombs (I never see people talk about smartbombs on the forums...)
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Irongrin Oldman
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Posted - 2011.06.13 05:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Oh look, another EVE elitist.
I like Spank, I've seen lots of her posts tonight on this slow night at work and she seems to help when a person can be helped. But overall I also see a ton of dumb **** like comments about WoW and blatantly flaming new players. I usually don't buy into trying to attribute behaviors to a whole community, good or bad, but I have to say EVE is the least friendly game community I've ever seen.
Sure DoTA games and FPS's have lots of people who turn into ******s when they're not winning, but people on EVE don't seem like angry action gamers. They seem intentionally hostile. I'm sure someone will say I'm mad now, but it was just an observation I felt like mentioning since I had a clear example in the thread.
Originally by: Lady Spank
No.
Go get some glasses or lower your screen resolution. Multiple overviews what is this.
lol...
Pardon me, I was in bed.
How is me using two words to inform you of something being intentionally hostile?
I was succinct, if you take that as being rude then you probably need a thicker skin to read these forums. IF something is simply burning away from you at its max speed and outpacing you then you aren't going to catch him simply by chasing. You will have to try and cat and mouse them.
If they are running about like a loon or orbiting you at 24km or something then there are several manouvers available to bring them into scram range. You can look these up but here's a start.
I said wrong re. dictor bubbles/spheres/points simply because you were wrong. Why use 10 words when one will do.
You use more words to make yourself understandable to the one you are talking to. Assuming everyone knows what you mean with one word is arrogant and kind of rude. And in this case the guy said he was a newbie aswell, which probably means he had even less clue of what you are talking about.
One word clearly wasn't enough because you still had to come back and make a new post anyway, why just not be clear from the beginning instead of assuming everyone is a mind reader.
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