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So tell me again why would you not just have a "paint slot" ?

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.14 11:53:00 - [1] Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship. Or better said, like T3 submodules. So they should probably be called "decals" not "paintjobs". You just have to make it so that "ship x decal" only fits on "ship x" (or maybe all its variants, why not - why not have a regular Scorpion with a Rattlesnake paintjob, or a Rattlesnake with a regular Scorpion paintjob). You fit the "Scorpion <whatever> Decals" on a regular Scorpion and it becomes (visually) the same as the (currently different item ID) Scorpion. Take the paint/decal/whatever you want to call it off, repackage it and sell THAT on the market. Whoever buys it can apply it to his own Scorpion. Lather, rinse, repeat. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Raid'En	Posted - 2011.06.14 11:56:00 - [2] Edited by: Raid''En on 14/06/2011 12:00:49 if they need to add a new ship ID for anything visually different it means they can't change the graphic of something without changing what this item is. graphic is linked to the item itself, and can't be changed... without copying the item to another one with these. but it's true there's T3... does T3 have different ID depending on what subsystems are inside ? it could explain why we can't swap modules while in space, and only in station... if that's the case... seems it's that. then they have to add some special slots to all ships, and give them the special characteristics that only the T3 had... must be lots of works and explain some things...
Serpents smile	Posted - 2011.06.14 11:57:00 - [3] Would make too much sense. It's CCP, you know? (crap do I sound bitter and I'm not even a vet)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:09:00 - [4] Edited by: Akita T on 14/06/2011 12:14:39 Originally by: Serpents smile crap do I sound bitter and I'm not even a vet Welcome to the bitter side Originally by: Raid'En then they have to add some special slots to all ships, and give them the special characteristics that only the T3 had... must be lots of works and explain some things... Well, they added rigs once upon a time when there were none, I doubt it would be radically more complicated coding-wise, but then again, who knows. You'd think they could reuse at least some of the work they did. It side-steps the ugly issue of possibly making minerals available from NPC sales in some form. And also side-steps the need to have the "Noble Exchange" accept any item trade-ins. Last but not least, whatever the chosen volume for the "paintjob/decal" item will be, it will most likely be far, far smaller than the full ship - and with them being easier to move, it makes them more attractive to purchase. Hell, I can see people buying the full damn set of paintjobs for whatever ship they have, just for the heck of it, since they can probably easily move ALL of them in the cargo of the ship itself to the new base of operations. Now imagine how that would be like if you had to move 20 ships instead of 1 ship with 19-20 paintjob items in its cargo. _ _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:15:00 - [5] /support This is a really, really good idea.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:23:00 - [6] /support anything is better than the currently suggested cluster** - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN!**
salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:25:00 - [7] livery would be a more suitable name unless you really only want to see paint i like my old classic client velvet guardian and i want the velour back
Pierced Brosmen Priory Of The Lemon	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:32:00 - [8] Edited by: Pierced Brosmen on 14/06/2011 12:35:01 Originally by: Akita T Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship. Why should you be able to get your paint-job back? That is like painting your house and then when you move to a new house, you sc**** (lovely profanity filtering there) the paint off the old house and apply it to the new one.... Not gonna look pretty, mate No, I think the paint job should be permanent, or that you can replace it with another one, but losing the old paint job in the process.
Savage Angel	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:32:00 - [9] After years of dealing with legacy code, I assure you that some of the new development on a large existing application is working around the sins of the past. Often it is easier to patch up the corner someone before you painted the program into rather than rewriting a large amount of core functionality to make the solution elegant. I hate doing it myself, but it is a fact of life. We will have to guess as to why a decal job would be more involved than the OP suggests, but if CCP could put stuff out with less work, why wouldn't they?
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Savage Angel After years of dealing with legacy code, I assure you that some of the new development on a large existing application is working around the sins of the past. Often it is easier to patch up the corner someone before you painted the program into rather than rewriting a large amount of core functionality to make the solution elegant. I hate doing it myself, but it is a fact of life. We will have to guess as to why a decal job would be more involved than the OP suggests, but if CCP could put stuff out with less work, why wouldn't they? Because someone somewhere wants to start leaching more $$$ out of the game. Plain and simple.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:47:00 - [11] This was the first idea to come to mind when thinking about paint jobs which means CCP never even considered it as a possibility because it's much better to create ships out of thin air.
Cognito Ergosum Amarr Vulkan Schiffbau und Maschinenfabrik AG	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Wacktopia Originally by: Savage Angel After years of dealing with legacy code, I assure you that some of the new development on a large existing application is working around the sins of the past. Often it is easier to patch up the corner someone before you painted the program into rather than rewriting a large amount of core functionality to make the solution elegant. I hate doing it myself, but it is a fact of life. We will have to guess as to why a decal job would be more involved than the OP suggests, but if CCP could put stuff out with less work, why wouldn't they? Because someone somewhere wants to start leaching more $$$ out of the game. Plain and simple. I've got that bad 'end of product life cycle' feeling.
S'qarpium D'igil	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:53:00 - [13] Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 14/06/2011 12:52:57 This is a very good idea -- much better than the stupid plan that CCP has come up with... Would a dev care to explain why this isn't being done, and if it's not possible, then why can't it be done? I would much rather pay AUR for paint, and then use the paint however I please instead of being forced to choose a ship at the time of paint purchase.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:56:00 - [14] i'm all for a paint/livery slot on a ship and like rigs they would be non-removable though... this does mean the fitting window is getting rather crowded - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN!
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. Raiden.	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:57:00 - [15] Edited by: Avon on 14/06/2011 12:58:50 It's just a case of CCP wanting new shiny stuff without really thinking it through. With the current Scorp skin drama, they could just sell a reskin token for Aurum and set up unlimited contracts requiring a Scorp + token to get the skinned scorp. Hell, with the contract system you could balance all of the requirements and it is a system which is already in place. A paint slot is a reasonable idea (especially for corp / alliance paintjobs) but shorterm the contract system would probably be a decent work-around. Retro sig
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.06.14 12:58:00 - [16] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 14/06/2011 12:59:34 Ok, I have obviously missed something somewhere. Can someone link me to the original source of the "aurum for ships + paintjobs" threads? Edit: Never mind, I just found it. --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club ROMANIAN-LEGION	Posted - 2011.06.14 13:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Sealiah on 14/06/2011 13:00:55 Ther's no point in it, and you know it. You could create another slot, but surely it should NOT work like a module, it should work like a rig. How on earth would you SC**** that paint and put it again on another ship? It's not like you put bonus armor plates on top, you just put a tiny layer of paint. The solution that will be introduced is the best possible one. EDIT: LOL at the forum nasty-word finder, he doesn't like removal of paint via S-C-R-A-P-I-N-G...
The Illustrious Juden	Posted - 2011.06.14 13:01:00 - [18] What is the science behind melting paint so it can be reused? If we still don't have the science by EVE's time I like using decals more.
Zagam	Posted - 2011.06.14 13:13:00 - [19] bear in mind that every single "decal" requires a new texture, and a plan on how to map that texture best to each ship model. Lets just take battlecruisers for example: With one "BC decal set of awesome", you would need to create a texture for.. Hurricane Cyclone Ferox Drake Myrmidon Brutix Harbinger Prophecy And that is without getting into command ships. The technical issue involved is that you need to make a whole lot of new textures, which all have to be loaded onto the client, and all have to be modeled for each ship. Just with standard BC, if you create 10 new paint jobs, you would need to model 80 new textures. ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.06.14 13:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Zagam The technical issue involved is that you need to make a whole lot of new textures, which all have to be loaded onto the client, and all have to be modeled for each ship. Just with standard BC, if you create 10 new paint jobs, you would need to model 80 new textures. That art department isnt employed to just look pretty! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN!
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.14 13:20:00 - [21] +1 for sensible solution. (not sure about making it removable though, I mean what are they going to do, sc** the paint off your ship and re sell it? I would go with having it like a rig in that its destroyed if you remove it) Only trouble is it should stay on when ship is repackaged. __________________________________________________ Originally by:** CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:18:00 - [22] Originally by: The Illustrious Juden What is the science behind melting paint so it can be reused? Paint recycling is based on the science behind armor and hull repairers. In fact, instead of a paint slot, we really should have a Paint Module. Seriously, if Armor and Hull repairers can magically fix holes, regardless of shape or size or location, in ships without having a large store of raw materials on board, and can do so in seconds, then an Infinite Paint Module should be child's play. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:21:00 - [23] Subsystems change whole models. Fairly sure at this point any CCP saying "not possible" is talking massive bullpies.
Zagam	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Skippermonkey Originally by: Zagam The technical issue involved is that you need to make a whole lot of new textures, which all have to be loaded onto the client, and all have to be modeled for each ship. Just with standard BC, if you create 10 new paint jobs, you would need to model 80 new textures. That art department isnt employed to just look pretty! Right. I wasn't thinking about the art department. I was thinking about where those textures will be stored. With just tech 1 ships, and not including any faction ships or capital ships, we have (roughly) 80 ship models. Figure 10 paint/livery textures, and you are looking at 800 textures. All of which have to be stored somewhere. Store them on your computer, and EVE becomes bigger, and client-side delays/lag says hello. Store them on the server, and EVE becomes more bandwidth hungry, and server-side delays/lag says hello. IMO, as a compromise, instead of doing designs, why not just do colors? For example, a hot pink paint job on an Iteron Mk5 is effective, as it says "shoot me" nicely. Also, a black paint job on a Machariel is appropriate, since the Mach is a stealthy-looking design on its own. Also, Minmatar ships should all have a silver paint job available, to go with the whole "duct tape" theme. ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Akita T Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship. Or better said, like T3 submodules. So they should probably be called "decals" not "paintjobs". You just have to make it so that "ship x decal" only fits on "ship x" (or maybe all its variants, why not - why not have a regular Scorpion with a Rattlesnake paintjob, or a Rattlesnake with a regular Scorpion paintjob). You fit the "Scorpion <whatever> Decals" on a regular Scorpion and it becomes (visually) the same as the (currently different item ID) Scorpion. Take the paint/decal/whatever you want to call it off, repackage it and sell THAT on the market. Whoever buys it can apply it to his own Scorpion. Lather, rinse, repeat. Ever try removing the paint from your old car and putting it on your new one?
Nuniki Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Akita T Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship. Or better said, like T3 submodules. So they should probably be called "decals" not "paintjobs". You just have to make it so that "ship x decal" only fits on "ship x" (or maybe all its variants, why not - why not have a regular Scorpion with a Rattlesnake paintjob, or a Rattlesnake with a regular Scorpion paintjob). You fit the "Scorpion <whatever> Decals" on a regular Scorpion and it becomes (visually) the same as the (currently different item ID) Scorpion. Take the paint/decal/whatever you want to call it off, repackage it and sell THAT on the market. Whoever buys it can apply it to his own Scorpion. Lather, rinse, repeat. Ever try removing the paint from your old car and putting it on your new one? Good comparison. Ever try shield tanking oncoming traffic? Your signature is too large. Please note that the maximum permitted signature size is 24,000 bytes. Spitfire
Xindi Kraid The Night Wardens	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:44:00 - [27] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: The Illustrious Juden What is the science behind melting paint so it can be reused? Paint recycling is based on the science behind armor and hull repairers. In fact, instead of a paint slot, we really should have a Paint Module. Seriously, if Armor and Hull repairers can magically fix holes, regardless of shape or size or location, in ships without having a large store of raw materials on board, and can do so in seconds, then an Infinite Paint Module should be child's play. Why the need to have a paint module in the first place? Those nanites always seem to be able to match the color of the repaired areas with the original color. -Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye'
Tira Mitzu Sphere Industries	Posted - 2011.06.14 14:50:00 - [28] Hey if I get to 9.0 standing (more or less idc would grind to 10.0) with Roden could I perhaps buy their Mega "decal" in the noble store at their stations?
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.06.14 15:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Xindi Kraid Why the need to have a paint module in the first place? Those nanites always seem to be able to match the color of the repaired areas with the original color. I think it would be way cooler if the repair that the armor nanites DIDNT match up with the current color scheme, that way, you can see your battle scars Originally by: me in game... hmm, today i think i'll load the PINK armor nanites - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.14 15:27:00 - [30] Edited by: Akita T on 14/06/2011 15:30:54 Originally by: Zagam bear in mind that every single "decal" requires a new texture, and a plan on how to map that texture best to each ship model. [...]The technical issue involved is that you need to make a whole lot of new textures, which all have to be loaded onto the client, and all have to be modeled for each ship. Just with standard BC, if you create 10 new paint jobs, you would need to model 80 new textures. The textures will exist. Some are on SiSi already. It's not a question of making the textures. It's a question of HOW they implement the "decals" (or "paintjobs" if you prefer). Right now, they plan on having different item type IDs for each differently-painted ship, instead of having a small item that gets "added" to an existing ship to change its texture. This means that if you want "Scorpion Red", you have to buy the ship "Scorpion Red", but if you also want "Scorpion Blue" you have to buy a second ship, and so on and so forth. The propose alternative was it should only be one ship, and you apply "stuff" on it that turns it from "Scorpion Regular" into either "Scorpion Red", "Scorpion Blue" or whatever other variants they plan on having. Originally by: Sader Rykane Ever try removing the paint from your old car and putting it on your new one? That's why I called'em "decals" But then again, when was the last time you nearly totaled your car, pressed a button, and slowly your ship repaired itself using just energy from the battery until it was brand-new, fresh paint included ? Because that pretty much already happens constantly in EVE right now whenever you turn on an armor (or hull) repper. Basically, the "paint job" would just be a script for the repair nannies to change the colour of the repairs. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts

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