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So tell me again why would you not just have a "paint slot" ?

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Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:45:00 - [61] Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. They've only been in Features and Ideas forum for years
Aquana Abyss	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:48:00 - [62] Please add the option for player manufacturers to have some sort of either hallmark colour or insignia into the "reskin" plans. Manufacturers 'Branding' in Eve could be amazing for the game and done by something as simple as a colour scheme.
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:56:00 - [63] Extremely unlikely. CCP would have to (based on comments made in the past) have to redo every single ship texture and how they are plugged into the graphics engine to allow for another texture layer to be added that conforms to the ship. IF you planned for this when the Trinity II engine was prepping during 2005-2007, then you would have something. There are only so many layers and channels available... AK EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.17 16:06:00 - [64] Edited by: CCP Spitfire on 17/06/2011 16:08:15 Originally by: AlleyKat Extremely unlikely. CCP would have to (based on comments made in the past) have to redo every single ship texture and how they are plugged into the graphics engine to allow for another texture layer to be added that conforms to the ship. IF you planned for this when the Trinity II engine was prepping during 2005-2007, then you would have something. There are only so many layers and channels available... AK If I may chime in: actually, this work has already started last year. You can check out this post by CCP Hammer and this dev blog for more information. Edit: and it seems I've misunderstood your post. Yet, a part of my statement is still valid: we do need to redo every single ship texture in the game. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Janus Talmash Talmash Imports and Exports Group	Posted - 2011.06.17 16:10:00 - [65] Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals. I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. The tattoos worked out very nicely, I'd happily wait a lot longer if that means the decals will work/show in a similar manner. ________ Amat victoria curam.
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2011.06.17 16:47:00 - [66] Originally by: CCP Spitfire ...and it seems I've misunderstood your post... Confirming my post was written in haste and is subject to misinterpretation AK
Malen Nenokal The Nightshift	Posted - 2011.06.17 17:14:00 - [67] This would be ideal. I really wish CCP could just hold off on the feature completely so this would be possible. If it was a matter of just slotting a "decal", I would probably be more interested in buying into the whole scheme.
Roderak Pleem Minmatar Abandoned Land	Posted - 2011.06.17 18:29:00 - [68] Edited by: Roderak Pleem on 17/06/2011 18:34:14 I think the idea here is good. Let's add something else. Buy IW Scorpion paintjob/decal/refit (whatever you want to call it) with AUR Costs ISK to have it applied to your Scorpion. Gotta pay the painters/refitters. Costs ISK to have it removed from your ship. Again, gotta pay for the work to be done. Once removed, it could be resold or fit to another Scorpion. However, it always costs ISK for application to and removal from ship. Edit: made sure it said Scorpion specifically for this particular example.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.18 08:44:00 - [69] Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals. I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. \o/ yaaaay Now if only they'd actually go with it, that would be super... _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
cerbus Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.18 11:06:00 - [70] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals. I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. \o/ yaaaay Now if only they'd actually go with it, that would be super... We brought this to CPP two years ago Akita with the 4th CSM and then again with the 5th. While the general basis of what you described is similar, the responses from both the players and ccp are pretty much the same. I've written comments on this for so many years now I can't really be arsed to do so again but there is definately an easy way for them to get this working now with minimal effort - aslong as there are no new module types involved such as the rig like modules that you (and I) would really like.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.06.18 15:03:00 - [71] Originally by: CCP Spitfire ........ Edit: and it seems I've misunderstood your post. Yet, a part of my statement is still valid: we do need to redo every single ship texture in the game. CCP, I'm wondering if you are still over-thinking the issue. Remember the "Golden Retriever" bug? I really doubt that bug was because an artist accidentally created a new skin for the Retriever. My guess is you just somehow got the wrong color assigned to the existing skin. So how about giving us a slot that allows us to assign different colors to the existing skin and/or parts of the existing skin? Limiting us to being able to select colors from a set palette would cover some issues: The amount of information that needs to be sent to each client would be small: one or two bytes per ship would define what colors were used. Also the issue of "Time to (Gentleman's sausage)" would go away as you would have control over the palette and patterns available.
cerbus Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.18 20:15:00 - [72] Edited by: cerbus on 18/06/2011 20:19:36 Oppurtunities for customisation: Low Hanging or Possible Now: Base Pattern (Diffuse Texture + Mask Layer) Base Colour (Data) Secondary Colour (Data) Internal Light Colours (Data) External Light Colours (Data) Material Type (Data to control shaders and combinations of all texture layers) Options for further iteration or Requires new PGS texturing Method: Exhaust / Engine Trail Type (Data) Damage Decal / Age Decal Layer (Series of Texture sets - Possibly Diffuse, Bump, Normal, Specular + Reflect) Paint Layer (Texture set - Probably Diffuse + Specular) Corp / Alliance Logo Placement You can see that theres a kack load of options for customisation and the potential for alot man hours and work. If I was CCP I'd be rolling out sets of pre-designed (or call it painting if you want) ships which can be done now at minimal cost, say one frigate and cruiser from each race, based off one new base pattern (with their own unique database id) for each of those hulls but disable further options for customisation until those ships have been updated and the new texturing engine/ code has been written. They can test the waters and see how people pick it up, and theres no need for tricky new naming systems or market coding. Each ship could come under the market class "Custom", ie. "Custom Cruisers" and then listed in the market based of the naming rights of that version (which is also the base or default colour for that ship) and then its Colour Combination (so that you can clearly see in the market what the base colour of the ship is without extra code written). ie. Serpentis Thorax (Base Model) Serpentis Thorax - Intaki Red Goon Modified Thorax - Bumblebee Yellow (yeah right) This would allow you to be able to buy the bpcs for the base ships and base colour combinations to continue the build process or to seed onto the market for those who don't want to use Aurum. For this example there would be no control over what the ships material looks like or the light colours as this would be restricted to the base textures for this unique database item. This is both good and bad - by restricting colour palettes and options for each race you can retain the integrity of CCPs art vision for the game but you won't have any control over these settings - boohoo new ship colours :P! In the instance that they decide to use a rig like module system for customisation you'd just not enable this feature on the ships that could use it until those assets had been upgraded to the new texturing system and the code had been written (theres room for role playing and storied here). Other things that haven't been mentions yet is that we'll be pretty close to having damage, age and rust show on our ships. With a extra paint layer (and possibly a mask) we'd actually see some damage to our ships and not just a glowing dx8 effect with some **ty smoke (we got smoke right?) Some other cool ** we should get: Rare and Uber Rare custom design options dropped from missions or rewards from events. Options to bid on colour combination copywrites Naming rights for final builds Options for multiple new Micro-professions and levels of manufacturing Its 8am time to sleep, maybe i'll waste sunday making pictures cerbus
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.18 21:22:00 - [73] Originally by: cerbus One of the biggest issues though with having full customisation [...] The easiest way atm is to create premade combinations of ships I don't think you really understood what I was saying. I was not talking about full customization, I was talking about the "premade" combinations. The ones they're already planning to roll out, the ones on the ships that will be available in the "Noble Exchange" (NEX) Vanity Item / AUR shop. The only difference was in what you can buy in the NEX. Right now, the plan is to buy a whole new ship from the NEX, hardwired by typeID to be of the "premade" colour. They briefly considered selling the full ship directly for AUR and not much else before they can also charge a base ship, but they dumped that idea after screams and shouts, so now they're waiting until they can consume a base ship in the process. My suggestion was to have a sort of "PAINT SCRIPT" sold in the NEX instead of entire ships. All ships would have the same typeID, not many different ones. How the ship would look (i.e. the texture on it) would depend on what kind of "paint script" was loaded in the "paint/decal slot". The advantage of a "paint script" would be that it's radically smaller than a ship, easier to move to a different market, and thus far, far more attractive to purchase (or purchase many different variants). It would also reduce the number of market subfolders that will be necessary. And it would also side-step the need to "push back" the release of the new paintjob ships until the NEX can be changed to accept ship exchanges, since, hey, no ship would be given out. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
cerbus Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.18 21:24:00 - [74] Edited by: cerbus on 18/06/2011 21:24:51 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: cerbus One of the biggest issues though with having full customisation [...] The easiest way atm is to create premade combinations of ships I don't think you really understood what I was saying. I was not talking about full customization, I was talking about the "premade" combinations. The ones they're already planning to roll out, the ones on the ships that will be available in the "Noble Exchange" (NEX) Vanity Item / AUR shop. The only difference was in what you can buy in the NEX. Right now, the plan is to buy a whole new ship from the NEX, hardwired by typeID to be of the "premade" colour. They briefly considered selling the full ship directly for AUR and not much else before they can also charge a base ship, but they dumped that idea after screams and shouts, so now they're waiting until they can consume a base ship in the process. My suggestion was to have a sort of "PAINT SCRIPT" sold in the NEX instead of entire ships. All ships would have the same typeID, not many different ones. How the ship would look (i.e. the texture on it) would depend on what kind of "paint script" was loaded in the "paint/decal slot". The advantage of a "paint script" would be that it's radically smaller than a ship, easier to move to a different market, and thus far, far more attractive to purchase (or purchase many different variants). It would also reduce the number of market subfolders that will be necessary. And it would also side-step the need to "push back" the release of the new paintjob ships until the NEX can be changed to accept ship exchanges, since, hey, no ship would be given out. thats exactly what i am talking about. I was agreeing with you and showing how it would be possible to parts of this now and then iterate into that idea and more later.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.18 21:29:00 - [75] Edited by: Akita T on 18/06/2011 21:31:19 Correct me if I'm wrong, but... 1 (less important). You're mainly talking about eventually being able to build your own as you like from a set of variants, so longer-term stuff. I'm just talking about making those that are as good as there (since they say they're already placing the needed textures in the 21 Jun patch) already pre-matched and pre-packaged work ASAP. 2 (very important). You're also talking about different ships (as in, separate market entries for the packaged ship). I'm talking exact same ship (just one market entry for packaged ship), but when assembled, different items ("paint scripts") loaded into it (in newly created "paint slot") changing its visual aspect. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
cerbus Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.18 21:45:00 - [76] Edited by: cerbus on 18/06/2011 21:49:20 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 18/06/2011 21:31:19 Correct me if I'm wrong, but... 1 (less important). You're mainly talking about eventually being able to build your own as you like from a set of variants, so longer-term stuff. I'm just talking about making those that are as good as there (since they say they're already placing the needed textures in the 21 Jun patch) already pre-matched and pre-packaged work ASAP. 2 (very important). You're also talking about different ships (as in, separate market entries for the packaged ship). I'm talking exact same ship (just one market entry for packaged ship), but when assembled, different items ("paint scripts") loaded into it (in newly created "paint slot") changing its visual aspect. yeah, I know _exactly_ what you are saying (for a change). :P I just offered more alternatives to making large portions of ships available on the market, aswell as allowing for some base texture differences which isn't possible with existing models (Except scorp, new maller and punisher?), and examples that would work right now. I would personally do it with one unique database id' per base hull and then use modules/ scripts to customise further than base/secondary/diffuse/mask layers - but this isn't possible right now, unless each variant was named completely different in the database (huge) and the mechanics for fitting the designer scripts/ rigs existed. Sadly I wouldn't trust half the people in this game to try design what their ship looks like, so with the playerbase that we have in mind i'd just offer all completely premade and predesigned ships, call is "custom paint jobs" and thats it. Also... the beauty of your idea and how i'd like to see it done is that it creates multiple levels of purchasing and manufacturing which not only opens this MT system to people who have limited isk or RL money, but it also creates oppurtunities for multiple mini-professions or people who can work on just one area if they so wish.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.26 12:24:00 - [77] Edited by: Akita T on 26/06/2011 12:25:00 Originally by: cerbus yeah, I know _exactly_ what you are saying (for a change). :P I just offered more alternatives to making large portions of ships available on the market, aswell as allowing for some base texture differences which isn't possible with existing models (Except scorp, new maller and punisher?), and examples that would work right now.[...] Re-mentioned this thread's "conlcusions" after further chewing on them mentaly for a couple of days. To be honest, one can only hope (because, let's face it, it's not much more than just hope at this point) that at some distant point in the future, this might actually be how one does "buy" vanity ships - by purchasing basic paint components with AUR from the NEX, by having a player design a color scheme, maybe having to spend some extra AUR for that too, then manufacturing the "completed paint" item out of all those components using the customized blueprint-like (be it limited or unlimited run) assembly instructions, then selling THAT "paint item" to whoever wishes to use it. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.26 12:31:00 - [78] Edited by: Tobiaz on 26/06/2011 12:33:13 Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals. I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. Oh look who crawled form under his rock. Want a good idea? Start playing the game more yourself. You're so disconnected with the community it's disturbing you're actually one of people that comes up with ideas to push down our throats. I know Hilmar is breathing down your neck, but still.. grow a backbone and some EVE-player-pride ffs. I don't hate you personally, but I find the lack of insight of the upper echelon of CCP in their product and their community just mind-boggling. Especially since this was so much different back in 2003. Edit: oh and start talking to the CSM, they know the game better then the whole of CCP combined. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.26 13:25:00 - [79] Originally by: Tobiaz Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes Oh look who crawled form under his rock. That was from before the scandal really started... _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Diet Water	Posted - 2011.06.26 13:38:00 - [80] They could initially offer the paint jobs that are already ingame and used on the customs/gate defence ships. I.e. The Roden Megathron.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.26 13:41:00 - [81] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Tobiaz Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes Oh look who crawled form under his rock. That was from before the scandal really started... Heh, I see now Guess the Cockroaches are all still in hiding. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
Solhild	Posted - 2011.06.26 15:55:00 - [82] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 26/06/2011 12:25:00 Originally by: cerbus yeah, I know _exactly_ what you are saying (for a change). :P I just offered more alternatives to making large portions of ships available on the market, aswell as allowing for some base texture differences which isn't possible with existing models (Except scorp, new maller and punisher?), and examples that would work right now.[...] Re-mentioned this thread's "conlcusions" after further chewing on them mentaly for a couple of days. To be honest, one can only hope (because, let's face it, it's not much more than just hope at this point) that at some distant point in the future, this might actually be how one does "buy" vanity ships - by purchasing basic paint components with AUR from the NEX, by having a player design a color scheme, maybe having to spend some extra AUR for that too, then manufacturing the "completed paint" item out of all those components using the customized blueprint-like (be it limited or unlimited run) assembly instructions, then selling THAT "paint item" to whoever wishes to use it. I have some faith in this idea - really rather good! Well done and all that!
Rhaegor Stormborn BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.06.26 15:57:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals. I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. Nice monacle ***got.
Havegun Willtravel	Posted - 2011.06.26 15:59:00 - [84] It's free in Galactica. IIRC you get to choose from 30 or so common and popular tags that can be changed at will. Not a big deal. Not sure why they've turned it into a mountain instead of a ant hill. Maybe they just should have asked us what WE wanted
Rhaegor Stormborn BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.06.26 16:03:00 - [85] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Edited by: CCP Spitfire on 17/06/2011 16:08:15 Originally by: AlleyKat Extremely unlikely. CCP would have to (based on comments made in the past) have to redo every single ship texture and how they are plugged into the graphics engine to allow for another texture layer to be added that conforms to the ship. IF you planned for this when the Trinity II engine was prepping during 2005-2007, then you would have something. There are only so many layers and channels available... AK If I may chime in: actually, this work has already started last year. You can check out this post by CCP Hammer and this dev blog for more information. Edit: and it seems I've misunderstood your post. Yet, a part of my statement is still valid: we do need to redo every single ship texture in the game. Something you could have completed well over two years ago if you had not wasted my time and money on Spacebook, Command Quarters, and The Noble Store.
Kira Mitsuko	Posted - 2011.06.26 16:07:00 - [86] I would like this
Alejan Gerakh Minmatar Clan Hyena	Posted - 2011.06.26 16:17:00 - [87] Originally by: Roderak Pleem Edited by: Roderak Pleem on 17/06/2011 18:34:14 I think the idea here is good. Let's add something else. Buy IW Scorpion paintjob/decal/refit (whatever you want to call it) with AUR Costs ISK to have it applied to your Scorpion. Gotta pay the painters/refitters. Costs ISK to have it removed from your ship. Again, gotta pay for the work to be done. Once removed, it could be resold or fit to another Scorpion. However, it always costs ISK for application to and removal from ship. Edit: made sure it said Scorpion specifically for this particular example. So, if you want this... do you also want refitting your ship to cost ISK?!?! That's the logical extension of this idea, to me. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me." Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems. The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread.
Dobbs Head EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.26 16:27:00 - [88] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 18/06/2011 08:51:09 Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship. Or better said, like T3 submodules. So they should probably be called "decals" not "paintjobs". EDIT : or perhaps "paint-repair nanite scripts" ? You just have to make it so that "ship x decal" only fits on "ship x" (or maybe all its variants, why not - why not have a regular Scorpion with a Rattlesnake paintjob, or a Rattlesnake with a regular Scorpion paintjob). You fit the "Scorpion <whatever> Decals" on a regular Scorpion and it becomes (visually) the same as the (currently different item ID) Scorpion. Take the paint/decal/whatever you want to call it off, repackage it and sell THAT on the market. Whoever buys it can apply it to his own Scorpion. Lather, rinse, repeat. EDIT : post #60 Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals. I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider. post #64 Originally by: CCP Spitfire Originally by: AlleyKat CCP would have to (based on comments made in the past) have to redo every single ship texture and how they are plugged into the graphics engine to allow for another texture layer to be added that conforms to the ship. If I may chime in: actually, this work has already started last year. You can check out this post by CCP Hammer and this dev blog for more information. Edit: and it seems I've misunderstood your post. Yet, a part of my statement is still valid: we do need to redo every single ship texture in the game. Brilliant idea. I give you some of my excess internets as a reward.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.06.26 23:06:00 - [89] because we need moar nonprotest threads bump and I have to agree with akita the 'paint' slot methood should have been implimented but I understand its alot of work on ccps end for all 572 ships. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
Reilly Duvolle	Posted - 2011.06.26 23:30:00 - [90] Peaco cks, the lot of you!

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