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So, who is happy with the new EW changes?

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Futros	Posted - 2005.02.18 00:48:00 - [31] Edited by: Futros on 18/02/2005 00:49:45 Deffinatly bad for bb pilots :(
Shin Ra	Posted - 2005.02.18 02:24:00 - [32] While I realise having a sensible discussion may be well beyond you Attrezzo, please respect the topic and don't post on this thread again. Please feel free to start a thread criticizing me, my corp and this thread. Just keep it seperate from this discussion. Yes I am upset about this, no I'm not crying like a baby. Yes I do know how to fight. No I do not gank indys only. If Burn Eden were purely Gankers, we would use jammers not dampners. All that aside - I knew that would happen... Yes dampners are overpowered. So change it. Don't nerf them so they are tactically useless. Whats wrong with reducing their effectiveness the further away they are used. I think that would be better than simply having them work or not. Yes they do require very little skill points to use. But they require a fair amount of player skill to use them effectively when outnumbered. My main point is not on the strength, but on the range of dampners. Thanks for reading, and I'm asking you nicely, please only post your thoughts on how the new EW will effect you and your corp. Feel free to start another thread and flame us. ----------------------------------------- Heinky> Dont mix eve with rl it can be bad for your health
Halod Crane	Posted - 2005.02.18 02:37:00 - [33] I agree too that current idea for EW changes will hurt the game and will engarge and force people to blob up. I have been part of blob fighting it is not fun and I don't know how they can be fun. If I understand this right CCP looks at ECM as a defensive measure. Ok, if that is the case, why is it going to be a chance base system. Armor tanking is a defensive setup so why is that not a random base system. A random chance that the resistance percentages will actually resist the damage. Also because it is random lot more people will be flying tanked ships which will require more ships to kill and that will cause more blobing. From my understanding that large fleet battles are already laggy. TomB (please answer this) will these new changes increase lag in the large fleet battles???? Some people have mentioned there are skills envolved to bring everything to where it is at now. But that is not the case on the test server will all those skill at level 5 did not bring it to the same level, Range wise. I don't feel like spending the next 1.5 months training these skills to level for the chance of it actually working. Here is some suggestion: incease the base range on damps, multi-spec, and racial jammers. Then still have the skills to increase the range. Also get rid of the random chances. Inside opitmal will be 100% effective outside opitmal (falloff) will have a chance of working but will quickly go to 0%. Here is one more question TomB or eve-devs: TomB you mention in a post that if the "desired results are not met at that time" what are your desired results you are looking for? Thank You "Keep It Real" "Its all about the Blob"
Halod Crane	Posted - 2005.02.18 02:41:00 - [34] Edited by: Halod Crane on 18/02/2005 02:43:06 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: fugazii youve got to remember each cycle its a new roll so the chance to keep say a bs scrambled long enough to kill is slim and even less so with wcs involved. I interpreted it differently to that. AFAIK a warp scrambler has a 100% chance of working within its optimal (which shall remain at 7.5km), however the warp core stabiliser will NOT be 100% effective. So, if you scramble within 7.5km you WILL scramble a single warp core stab, guarenteed, and you ALSO have a chance of scrambling a battleship that has EIGHT warp core stabs. Further to that, if you are in your falloff you STILL have a chance of scrambling the EIGHT warp core stabbed bs, it's just not as high as if you're in the optimal. Great changes (if I'm interpreting them right :/) I have personnally tested this on the test server my ship was within 5km of the target. The target tried to warp off said scramble but after 5 secs of trying it could warp off. And the target did not have wcs fitted. Unless this is buggy on the test server. "Keep It Real" "Its all about the Blob"
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.18 03:39:00 - [35] Originally by: Halod Crane I have personnally tested this on the test server my ship was within 5km of the target. The target tried to warp off said scramble but after 5 secs of trying it could warp off. And the target did not have wcs fitted. Unless this is buggy on the test server. I think that's buggy, Halod. At least, I hope it is, otherwise, yes, I'll be with you on the picket lines :p
sableye	Posted - 2005.02.18 04:27:00 - [36] Originally by: H Zub One of the most fun things you can have in eve is 1v1 ceptor. What I like to know is how's that possible now with a possible webifying range of 30km and a common locking range of +30km? Add to that the random element of outside 16km where fall off will decide. Do you want to lose/win 1v1 ceptor randomly? Not me. it already is random anyway because of the way guns work, you could get all good shots byt he roll of diceand your opponent can get bad shots, what is you get 2 wrecking duringa fight they get none ect
H Zub	Posted - 2005.02.18 08:08:00 - [37] Originally by: sableye Originally by: H Zub One of the most fun things you can have in eve is 1v1 ceptor. What I like to know is how's that possible now with a possible webifying range of 30km and a common locking range of +30km? Add to that the random element of outside 16km where fall off will decide. Do you want to lose/win 1v1 ceptor randomly? Not me. it already is random anyway because of the way guns work, you could get all good shots byt he roll of diceand your opponent can get bad shots, what is you get 2 wrecking duringa fight they get none ect I'm sorry but I dont agree. In my experience it's usually the most skilled pilot that comes out as a winner 1v1 ceptor. A well performed engagement is not about outdamaging the opponent, but to trick him by flying smart. Hence ceptor 1v1 is the best fun you can get in eve until now. Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie
slothe	Posted - 2005.02.18 08:55:00 - [38] Edited by: slothe on 18/02/2005 09:02:35 Personally i take the attitude if it isnt broke dont fix it.EW has lasted from day 1 of release, nearly 2 years without being changed. To me that seems to be because its fine as it is. I agree with the duration being changed to mre cap efficiency but nothing else. The range of ew is necessary to counter jumping into sniping camps where a target is 100-200 km from your ship. The extra skills just seem to mean you will spend an extra few months to end up in the position you began with. EW is generally underused in my opinion gunships now being the norm. The scorpion will become much less useful now. People know how EW works , and how to counter it. Can someone tell me WHY exactly changes are being considerd / implemented? Is it semply to keep tomb in a job? It seems to me everyone will just move into gunships and ew will become a thing of the past. Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public" http://www.khainestar.com/eve
Reash	Posted - 2005.02.18 09:32:00 - [39] Scorps are prob one of the most popular PvP battlesships from what i have seen so i dont see how only gunshsips are used... Anyway the reason i see dampners been changed is that currently you shove dampners on every ships in the fleet and you can almost completly prevent a enemy from shooting back...and they can't counter it even if they know that is that you are going to do. Just to prove the point say my targetting range is 50Km and then a enemy uses a dampner on me, my sensor range is reduced to 25km. O.k now ive got my standard range of 50Km and i use a sensor booster taking it up to 75km i then get dampened so my range is 37.5Km. So using the only counter possible i have only managed to reduce the effects of the dampner a little due to the way its calculated...kinda daft really as most ships will use more than 1 dampner. however even a Anti-EW ship wont be fitted with enough sensor boosters to counter it effectivly. Standard jamming on the other hand seems to be o.k with it been possible to counter it with sensor backups, but with dampning been almost as effective and been almost unable to fail it seems kinda daft really. ------------------------------------------------- Defend Amarr space, join the Auctoritan Syndicate today
Fogy	Posted - 2005.02.18 09:40:00 - [40] Edited by: Fogy on 18/02/2005 09:49:25 What ever the changes will end up like.. we will hafe to "change" aswell.. TomB and his "Modal 1337 Nerfbatt II" and all the stuff he's mind spins out.. is thing's we'll hafe to adapt to.. it changes the way we play.. and it keeps us awake.. if there newer were any changes to the game, it would end up beeing monoton.. Shiva came with allot of changes.. we all adapted to them.. or changed our way to play. the only thing i can say im sceptical to is the webby changes.. as they will surely or probably mess up 1on1 ceptor fight.. or ceptor fighting at all.. spechially if they come with a fall of range. having a % chans to hitt.. and a "damage %" witch should/would give a x% amounght of slowdown. would be cinda cinda ok.. spechially if there were a skill to it.. i think thats all i hafe to say.. about the EW changes as for the flamin/smacking.. i think you ppl that complains, whines, flames, cry, smacks or what ever about oftoppic issues.. against or with Burn Eden or who ever.. are childish. it messes up the thread and makes it unserious. Stick to the topic! Fly safe, hit hard, and have funn! Cheers! Fogy "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity" ♥RUBRA♥
Ed Gein	Posted - 2005.02.18 11:49:00 - [41] Edited by: Ed Gein on 18/02/2005 11:50:36 Edited by: Ed Gein on 18/02/2005 11:50:22 warp scramblers and disruptors are no longer 100% effective, each ship has a unsaid internal warp strength, you take the scrambler strength against that type of ship (this is not wcs, that is something different) do some math based on ships natural warp defense, and each cycle it has a chance of failing to scramble the ship --was in response to some burn eden talking about warp scrambling being teh suck now, sorry for no quote
Ed Gein	Posted - 2005.02.18 11:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Stetu I love how the people crying in this thread are the ones that came against us and found our strategy and setup displeasing. If you look at it from an unbiased most ew is okay right now. ECM ECCM could be fixed a bit just because nobody ever uses it. The new scrambling system wont let you warp if you're loaded with stabs. I tried it with an arma loaded with stabs and 1 scrambler I. What does that mean for you indy pilots carrying loads of zyd ? Just some thoughts :) the indy pilot is a fool for hauling zyd in an indy
Droidster	Posted - 2005.02.18 12:13:00 - [43] This reminds of the story of the computer science student who proudly announces to his famous professor that he has written a new kind of random number generator. The professor says, "The goal of life is to create order". _____________________________________________ I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK.
Masta Killa	Posted - 2005.02.18 16:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Shin Ra Edited by: Shin Ra on 17/02/2005 05:17:32 Edited by: Shin Ra on 17/02/2005 05:16:47 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=152360 Just tying to find out the general pirate/merc opinion towards the ew changes. Burn Eden is 100% against these changes, particularly the short ranges of sensor dampners. Since we rely heavily on this tactic to fight outnumbered, its going to cripple us. My personal opinion is that it is a further attempt to make piracy more difficult and force us to blob fight. I was interested to see what other pirate and merc corps think of the new changes. I am not interested in anyones opinion of Burn Eden or any other pirate/merc corp nor am I interested in anything anyone has to say about how "insert random bad word" our tactics are. Simple post how these changes will effect your corp and in what way. Now you know how Zelota, Chowdown and the CA Ghost Fleet felt when dual mwd's and mwd + ab's were nerfed Maybe if you ask nicely, I can ask Zelota to give you a hug -------------------------------------- We are The Collective. Resistance is futile.
Masta Killa	Posted - 2005.02.18 17:16:00 - [45] On topic: I always welcome changes in Eve, makes me wanna play more -------------------------------------- We are The Collective. Resistance is futile.
Zandramus	Posted - 2005.02.18 18:21:00 - [46] Edited by: Zandramus on 18/02/2005 18:22:40 Well Personally I am getting tired of all the changes and nerf's. you pay good money to ccp to spend months training for something only to have what you trained for get nerfed right after you start using it. It is becoming a big waste of time, I have several million skill points I would like to reallocate due to all the recent nerfing. How can you plan your skill training when 2-3 times a year they change the skills required to do something , this is getting crazy. ffs stop making changes until the damn game is sorted, sort the lag, You cant be in more than a 5 ship fleet anymore without getting some kind of lag. Zandramus Zandramus Parking Violations Officer Geminate Division S.A.S
PAPA	Posted - 2005.02.18 18:33:00 - [47] only time will tell
Lygos	Posted - 2005.02.18 23:21:00 - [48] The thing about changes is, if you enjoy thinking about potential setups even more than waiting to use them, then you don't mind changes. People of the Explorer typography (myopic or not) and people that are dissociated from the RP of the role of their character strolling through a changing landscape generally don't mind changes and development or the tangible ups and downs of belonging to a political group. (Unless you are of the Gallente, in which case you've probably never suffered anything, much as you deserve it though. The Megathron is the product of your philodoxically licentious history afterall.) The position people hold about how much they don't want new content are the most annoying sort out there. The ideas that things can be changed by the simple nerfing of one thing without any followup changes and ramifications are the second most annoying. The fact is, if changes could be simple, they'd have been made already. None of us knows anything about the game that at least some of the rest of us or the creators do not also know. None of us has perfect prophetic capacity either, though we tend to remember only those predictions which actually do come true by a crapshoot. The fact remains that unsolvable dilemmas can usually only be disarmed by the introduction of new variables. This provides a new axis on the balancing equations and spreads out the possibilities even more. Thus new content always holds the potential for old problems be it mythical balancing, or lag or whatever. If you're one of those people who can look at a multiple choice test and conjure a situation in which each answer is true already inherently know this.
Lianhaun	Posted - 2005.02.18 23:30:00 - [49] I'll need to get my hands on it to say something about it, I need to know how it will work in real battles instead of all numbers and theory. Who knows how much might change before we'll see it This is not a hijack
OffBeaT	Posted - 2005.02.19 01:21:00 - [50] Edited by: OffBeaT on 19/02/2005 01:24:30 Edited by: OffBeaT on 19/02/2005 01:21:09 Originally by: slothe Edited by: slothe on 18/02/2005 09:02:35 Personally i take the attitude if it isnt broke dont fix it.EW has lasted from day 1 of release, nearly 2 years without being changed. To me that seems to be because its fine as it is. I agree with the duration being changed to mre cap efficiency but nothing else. The range of ew is necessary to counter jumping into sniping camps where a target is 100-200 km from your ship. The extra skills just seem to mean you will spend an extra few months to end up in the position you began with. EW is generally underused in my opinion gunships now being the norm. The scorpion will become much less useful now. People know how EW works , and how to counter it. Can someone tell me WHY exactly changes are being considerd / implemented? Is it semply to keep tomb in a job? It seems to me everyone will just move into gunships and ew will become a thing of the past. ah, but yes you can counter it. you can setup with more sensor boosters with your damps so you lock faster then the other ships with damps.. now you have counterd him, its a risk but you can do it.. you got the lock first.. he now has too run or die..
Neslo	Posted - 2005.02.19 01:55:00 - [51] CCP is changing it because EW works, and has worked for almost a year now. If it didn't and was having issues it would take 2+ years to resolve cuz they are currently working with the nerf bat to hit objects that work or are effective in the game. EW was complained about this time last year because people were just learning about EW Scorps and people were like "WTF EXPLOIT PETITION PLS BAN" to the Devs... it has taken them a year to implement the changes they promised to the whiners then. There ARE counters to EW out there, and it IS EXTREMELY frustrating to the pilot being jammed and killed because he can't target / fire back. However just because you chose to put 8 heat sink 2s in your low slot on your gankageddon and why should EW pilots be punished cuz you are losing those modules? Oh because you will quit if they don't... /me points to the nearest airlock.... PLEASE LEAVE... Anyways... I'm an ANTI-PIRATE and I have had to learn how to use EW just like every pirate had to learn how to use the EW modules. As was posted earlier, major fleet battles can't happen in eve effectively. The server lags, the node dies, and only if you live 4 blocks from the darn server, do you get to survive the insuing crash about to happen to the rest of the fleet. Small fleet battles are the only way to fight in eve. (10 vs 10 MAX) EW is one of the tactics used to help counter the "WTFPWN megapulse weapons", and the "HELL I CAN SHOOT FROM 200km tempests." All those pilots have to do to counter EW is put sensor booster twos to counter remote sensor dampeners, put backup arrays to counter multispecs or specialized jamming... warpcore stabilizers to counter Warp scrambling and MWDs to counter webbing (though i could stand that only one webber could be fitted to a ship)... NOW... if all those things are thrown on you, guess what you get to DIE... because you are outnumbered 4 ships to 1 and you weren't flying with a fleet IE other people making your play style single player. Stick to empire if that's the case 0.4 and lower is not for you. Guys these changes ARE stupid, but complaining about them will get you no where because these complaints came a year ago and they are finally being implemented... If you complain now, you might get a present for christmas next year or the following valentines day... maybe... I'd say learn new tactics with these changes as I'm sure the next thing to be nerfed is going to be something like warping... it will be a chance roll whether you warp or just explode due to a warp core breach or something as ridiculous as these changes are... Neslo From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
OffBeaT	Posted - 2005.02.19 03:12:00 - [52] the way we worp in on gang has too change.. i need too beable too worp in at range of the said player in gang.. 15km now will me too close for the best jam.. i need all the choses upto 60km now.. since it matters alot now what range i come in at..
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.02.19 04:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Stetu If you look at it from an unbiased most ew is okay right now. ECM ECCM could be fixed a bit just because nobody ever uses it. And this is exactly why I am against this. The one aspect of the game that i am yet to see moaned about on the forums, the one aspect that is probably least in need of a change, gets completely *******ed over. Its comes down to what is needed and isnt. The current EW system works, sure maybe not like everyone wants to see it, but it works a hell of a lot better than a heap of other parts of this game. So thats right, we'll stuff with that, and introduce something else that could bring in bugs to sit unfixed for months.
alphawolf2929	Posted - 2005.02.19 05:20:00 - [54] Edited by: alphawolf2929 on 19/02/2005 05:26:14 i dont get the changes really but from waht iv read, scrams having a range of 7.5km? that is * now ***s all over the place will warp out, and nerf megapulses?Bah (proud gankageddon owner) Edit: now im going to go warp scram some noobs, good day.
Talyn Draco	Posted - 2005.02.19 06:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Shin Ra Edited by: Shin Ra on 17/02/2005 05:17:32 Edited by: Shin Ra on 17/02/2005 05:16:47 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=152360 Just tying to find out the general pirate/merc opinion towards the ew changes. Burn Eden is 100% against these changes, particularly the short ranges of sensor dampners. Since we rely heavily on this tactic to fight outnumbered, its going to cripple us. My personal opinion is that it is a further attempt to make piracy more difficult and force us to blob fight. I was interested to see what other pirate and merc corps think of the new changes. I am not interested in anyones opinion of Burn Eden or any other pirate/merc corp nor am I interested in anything anyone has to say about how "insert random bad word" our tactics are. Simple post how these changes will effect your corp and in what way. Well considering the fact that they arent fully implemented and the final verson of the changes is yet too be decided I am reserving judgment. They are still in the testing phaze and I am sure the EW changes will themselves go through many changes ----------------------- And veggie in the back said "everyone" attack and it turned into a ballroom blitz! And Eris in the corner said "boy I wanna know ya" and it turned into a ballroom blitz
Mac Knife	Posted - 2005.02.19 06:38:00 - [56] Originally by: fugazii the ew nerf is a great thing. the chance roll on scramblers will mean the end of pirating, and solo/small pvp groups becomin pointless as they will not be able to kill anything. its goin to create an influx of blob wars and already the servers cant handle them, now theres goin to be all the new ppl in blobs creating it even more unplayable. my computer sucks, fleet battles rnt possible for me(usually) even 5 vrs 5 engagements makes me lag alot, if solo fighting is nerfed and blobbing becomes only way to get kills i might quit cuz i play for the pvp not laggy blobs. For once i agree with Fugazii. The servers suck atm for massive fleet battles and these nerfs will just make what WOLF do impossible as if you can only kill things with blobs bigger than 10-20ppl then well thats us out of things :P. I know these aint even in test yet but really, from what i hear its a load of cr*p. EW is one thing in eve that doesnt need to be changed imo. As for ppl flaming Burn Eden, so what they found a setup that can kill your ships, stop complaining and flaming a discussion thread. Mac Knife
Gaius Kador	Posted - 2005.02.19 19:24:00 - [57] This is all part of the big equation being brought into play now by CCP. Megapulses will be fixed to reduce overall range, meaning EW will not be compromised as is. My only hope is for CCP to implement these changes simultaneously, so that we wont have a timespan where EW is ineffective outside the range of the uber gankageddons. EW wise, so far so good, I still think it needs some tweaking, but all of my thoughts and ideas have allready been expressed earlier in this and other threads, so I'll not repeat it. Lets see what goes, I'll whine if it turns out bad ;) ----------------------------------------------
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.19 20:38:00 - [58] Originally by: alphawolf2929 Edited by: alphawolf2929 on 19/02/2005 05:26:14 i dont get the changes really but from waht iv read, scrams having a range of 7.5km? that is * now ***s all over the place will warp out, and nerf megapulses?Bah (proud gankageddon owner) Edit: now im going to go warp scram some noobs, good day. Warp SCRAMBLERS have ALWAYS had a range of 7.5km
Grim	Posted - 2005.02.20 00:22:00 - [59] Sounds rocking to me!
Jazz Bo	Posted - 2005.02.20 01:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Shin Ra Burn Eden is 100% against these changes, particularly the short ranges of sensor dampners. Since we rely heavily on this tactic to fight outnumbered, its going to cripple us. Buhu. They have always been overpowered. Originally by: DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.

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