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Arya Greywolf
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Posted - 2011.06.16 22:40:00 -
[91]
I agree with this. For everyone *****ing at OP because his computer isn't amazing or whatever, you're missing a major point of the post.
From a design standpoint, why not give your customer the option, instead of pigeonholing them into an undesirable situation?
It's especially pertinent when you're talking about multiple clients. Yeah, one CQ loading screen is fine, but add another or 2 more and you're killing your system.
CCP, please listen and give us the option!
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Maul555
Amarr
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.17 01:34:00 -
[92]
Bumping for the hope of a dev response...
The EVE Personality Test
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Rhadia
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Posted - 2011.06.17 01:48:00 -
[93]
Their forcing it on us because they're blatantly trying to make it seem like this expansion isn't as content-lacking as really is.
Not really working.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.17 04:13:00 -
[94]
4 days to go.
I wonder how many people are used to doubleclicking their ship in hangar for opening the cargo bay. We'll find out I guess.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!  |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.17 04:20:00 -
[95]
 Originally by: Rhadia
Their forcing it on us because they're blatantly trying to make it seem like this expansion isn't as content-lacking as really is.
Not really working.
Is funny eh.
* "We won't be working on eve for 18 months"
* Rabble Rabble Rabble!
* "Ok we'll put a team or 2 on stuff that 'looks' like progress"
* Yay I love barbie!
* Um... This is just filler crap.
* "But we're so amazingly dedicated to developing EveOnline, WoD, DUST, It's all Eve!"
* CCP, you suck.
* "New Release: Shorts and shirts!"
* WTF CCP?!?
* "Hey you can buy ships for $$$ now!! We're awesome"
* OMFG CCP YOU DUMB ****S!!!
They've given up, you as customers are just fodder now for them to chew up while they work on projects they imagine have more of a future.
CCP are so very afraid that EveOnline is not up to standard and based on a broken foundation, making it near impossible to compete over the next 10 years.
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Benri Konpaku
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Posted - 2011.06.17 04:40:00 -
[96]
Because of Nvidia bribes and Aurum. |
Tapdancing Batman
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Posted - 2011.06.17 08:30:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
4 days to go.
I wonder how many people are used to doubleclicking their ship in hangar for opening the cargo bay. We'll find out I guess.
Oh damn, I always do that. 
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.17 08:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
But enough off-topic, I can follow your argument about change and people.
Know where that comes from? It's experience - never change a running system.
With that kind of reasoning, no change would ever be made.
Besides, in their latest interview blog, CCP already explained that EVE is a running system; that they cannot take it off-line half-a-year, just to go implement new stuff; so they make relatively small installments, each to test out the functionality of one particular thing. In this case, only CQ, and nothing more yet. The irony is, that their prudency is then translated to 'no real extra content.' Sigh.
Quote:
If CCP adds gameplay that's not possible yet in Eve, like boosters or minigames or dressup or corpmeetings, all fine and dandy. That would be an incentive to use Incarna.. but that isn't there yet, so forcing this onto people who don't want to get the usability of shiphangar or their immersion shattered is not the way to go.
Which is precisely why CCP said the button to make it optional would remain for a while: because as long as CQ does not really connect to a larger portion of Incarna yet, needed for overall gameplay, they can indeed afford to leave the choice to use it to the players.
Quote:
Thing is, it's interfering.. usability and immersion wise Incarna is causing trouble.
The immersion argument, having to decant each time and all, is grossly exaggerated. And the extra immersion you get from having a whole new, real-like 3D world added, vastly overshadows the somewhat nitpicky decant immersion issue.
--
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.06.17 08:41:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
The immersion argument, having to decant each time and all, is grossly exaggerated.
The devil is in the details, and we all have a one way ticket to hell. 
On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
________________________________________________
Huh? |
San Severina
Minmatar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.17 08:52:00 -
[100]
+ Me..
Posting for Dev response, seems reasonable this close to launch.
CQ is not practical for all the time use, any idiot that plays EvE can see that. Do Devs play this game at all?
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Maul555
Amarr
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.17 09:10:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
The immersion argument, having to decant each time and all, is grossly exaggerated. And the extra immersion you get from having a whole new, real-like 3D world added, vastly overshadows the somewhat nitpicky decant immersion issue.
If this bares any resemblance to the logic that CCP is using behind closed doors, then it explains a lot. Its not a trivial issue. Its a core issue. This is supposed to be the ultimate immersive sci-fi simulator. And a major expansion that is supposed to increase immersion is breaking it. If you cant see that, then you have your head up your but. It makes no sense to leave the pod on every dock.
The EVE Personality Test
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.17 09:29:00 -
[102]
My guess to why CCP defaults you to captain quarters instead of the current hangar view is because they consider it bad game design to make a strict separation between the space game and Incarna. Even though it is this strict separation (or wall) the people here keep asking for.
In some regard I can understand why; having a major part of the game "hidden" is generally not a good design. In fact, it seems like CQ will be used as an opportunity to advertise some other less known game features (such as pirate epic arcs) making these more assessable for players and further diminish the separation between the space game and Incarna.
Still, I too find it hugely immersion breaking that a pod pilot exits his pod every time he docks for a few seconds to recharge his capacitor and shields.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.17 09:38:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Still, I too find it hugely immersion breaking that a pod pilot exits his pod every time he docks for a few seconds to recharge his capacitor and shields.
Having to decant each time remains a very minor issue to me. Far worse than that, is finding myself in a duct-taped held together Minmatar CQ inside a Caldari station! Now, that breaks immersion. And all because CCP couldn't really finish Incarna 1.0 on time come June 21.
--
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:03:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 17/06/2011 11:06:11
Originally by: Ranka Mei
*snip*
Quote:
Thing is, it's interfering.. usability and immersion wise Incarna is causing trouble.
The immersion argument, having to decant each time and all, is grossly exaggerated. And the extra immersion you get from having a whole new, real-like 3D world added, vastly overshadows the somewhat nitpicky decant immersion issue.
By that logic everyone would have a planetary interaction window open as soon as he's in range of a planet..
Look Ranka, I like Incarna, but I don't want it every friggen time I dock.
Why is that so hard to accept for you?
Do I force PI or FW or POS or SOV or W-Space onto you?
Do I suggest that every ship that's warping through a solar system should be sucked into a wormhole from time to time, cause that is content that shouldn't be ignored?
Or do I suggest that every system in new eden should be sieged for one day a week by the opposing faction so that everybody can have a part in Factional Warfare?
Do I suggest that every NPC manufacturing, ME/PE/Copy/Invention slots gets removed, so that everyone has to deal with POS and this huge part of the game?
Do you see me talking like that?
You project yourself onto others and don't respect other peoples playstyles.
If Incarna has got incentives to use it, people will use it.
If Incarna has no incentives, but on top some drawbacks overthe current status quo, people will hate it.
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Still, I too find it hugely immersion breaking that a pod pilot exits his pod every time he docks for a few seconds to recharge his capacitor and shields.
Having to decant each time remains a very minor issue to me. Far worse than that, is finding myself in a duct-taped held together Minmatar CQ inside a Caldari station! Now, that breaks immersion. And all because CCP couldn't really finish Incarna 1.0 on time come June 21.
You don't like Minma CQ in Caldari Stations? - I couldn't care less as the others will come somewhat later.. so much about opinions and tastes.
I'm out and waiting for the thread-noughts come the 21st.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Rina Jenette
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:17:00 -
[105]
Originally by: RensPriceChecker2
guys you need to understand how proud ccp is about incarna.
finally after ~5years in development by the most brilliant developers you now have a game where the player can walk inside a room !
Well to be fair they should be proud of incarna, from what I've seen it's graphical beyond any mmo out there. That said however, and as much as I am looking forward to it, I have to agree with the general consensus that the existing setup should be an option, whether it's a checkbox in settings or a button to disembark out of the normal screen into the CQ. For those who want to got to the CQ frequently, of which I expect I will be one, clicking a button in the existing docking screen to do so is a very minor thing. Ideally they could put a button in both the regular dock and the CQ and have a checkbox in settings for the default docking style you want (and then hit the button in the dock/cq to swap between).
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:27:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Look Ranka, I like Incarna, but I don't want it every friggen time I dock.
Why is that so hard to accept for you?
Do I force PI or FW or POS or SOV or W-Space onto you?
Do I suggest that every ship that's warping through a solar system should be sucked into a wormhole from time to time, cause that is content that shouldn't be ignored?
Or do I suggest that every system in new eden should be sieged for one day a week by the opposing faction so that everybody can have a part in Factional Warfare?
Do I suggest that every NPC manufacturing, ME/PE/Copy/Invention slots gets removed, so that everyone has to deal with POS and this huge part of the game?
Do you see me talking like that?
There's choices and choices. All of the above are just about a certain way of gameplay. Gates, planets, moons, stations, etc., these are part of a fixed infrastructure. And I don't think the latter should be optional, no.
There's something to be said for not having to find yourself in quarters each time, though, when all you want to do is grab a few more missiles. Also, the novelty of CQ wears off pretty fast, as I found out soon enough after spending some time on the test server. So, maybe a 'docking for maintenance/resupply only' mode could come in handy.
Eventually, it's more the larger issue that concerns me. There was this guy here, on this forum, saying he'd go live out of his Orca, just to avoid having to deal with Incarna. And that's his prerogative, of course. Ultimately, trying to avoid and/or asking for ways to avoid major parts of the game infrastructure will be self-defeating, though, from a game design perspective. And I can see how CCP doesn't want to give in to that.
Quote:
You don't like Minma CQ in Caldari Stations? - I couldn't care less as the others will come somewhat later.. so much about opinions and tastes.
Well, CCP's track record of finishing up on expansions they started earlier is less than stellar. So, I hope we really do get race-specific quarters later on.
--
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Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:30:00 -
[107]
Quit simple.
They wont maintain 2 Interfaces for future changes. That is more cost extensiv then just 1 interface.
Work around for Ship Hoppers and Immersion Guys would be an additional popup window during the docking process.
Do you want to exit your POD or just change your Ship.
Case 1 you will be docked and transported into Captains Quarter.
Case 2 another selection Dialog popup where you can select your ship and afterwards you will be back in space in the new ship immediatly.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:39:00 -
[108]
To anyone saying that EVE needs to evolve and move on graphically and all that. Just remember that the Hanger uses the same space engine as the space part of the game.... so if the space part gets upgraded, so would the hanger. I'm sure the work required for such a feat of graphical awesomeness is well within the capability of CCP's programming prowess.
I don't think we are going to get the option to have both, which would create a better and more fulfilling game for everyone and encourage more subs and money for CCP. We are going to get just the CQ. I believe the reason for this is because they want us to spend more money on the game than we do already. This is then game design, not for improving the experience of the game, but for conditioning players to spend money through MT.
Whilst I'm not thinking about quitting EVE altogether just yet, I'm becoming disillusioned with the company and the prospects of the games future. It's making me look elsewhere for alternatives, when for many years now I would never have thought about it. I'm just disappointed.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:45:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Haramir Haleths
Quit simple.
They wont maintain 2 Interfaces for future changes. That is more cost extensiv then just 1 interface.
àexcept that it isn't two interfaces ù it's one interface reached through two different means. It doesn't matter if you just click the button on your neocom or if you walk up to your trading/fitting/industry terminal in Incarna ù the same market/fitting/industry window will appear. Unless they suddenly want to remove all remote capabilities from people sitting in their ships, those windows will always be around, and they will not duplicate them by creating some odd incarna-specific variants.
This whole issue is not about creating two interfaces. It's about having one environment and the choice not to use it, but still have access to the same interface (of which there will still only be one). If it is a huge effort for them not to do something, or if not doing something creates bugs, they really need to fire their developers.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Sucateira
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:22:00 -
[110]
I guess that having multiple accounts and play all of them at the same time don't break your immersion.
I also can't see why people feel conditioned into MT. Saying that its so ridiculous that invalidate any decent post.
Why are you guys using super uber high tech ships and think its weird someone leaving its pod and enter the CQ.
btw... can I have your stuff?
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DraconisAlpha
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Posted - 2011.06.17 12:39:00 -
[111]
/signed
I
DONT
****IN
CARE
ABOUT
DAMN
INCARNA
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.06.17 12:54:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Sucateira
I also can't see why people feel conditioned into MT. Saying that its so ridiculous that invalidate any decent post.
It's the same theory behind how shops and supermarkets setup their floors to encourage people to buy certain products. If you don't understand that you must be a victim often.
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Mary Jane Insane
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Posted - 2011.06.17 13:02:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Sucateira
I also can't see why people feel conditioned into MT. Saying that its so ridiculous that invalidate any decent post.
It's the same theory behind how shops and supermarkets setup their floors to encourage people to buy certain products. If you don't understand that you must be a victim often.
No dude... people that feel tempted and conditioned by it.. are the victims. CCP can block my entire screen with MT stuff that I wont buy it.
So I don't see in what should i feel conditioned for.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.17 13:02:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 17/06/2011 13:04:35
Originally by: Ranka Mei
*snip*
Eventually, it's more the larger issue that concerns me. There was this guy here, on this forum, saying he'd go live out of his Orca, just to avoid having to deal with Incarna. And that's his prerogative, of course. Ultimately, trying to avoid and/or asking for ways to avoid major parts of the game infrastructure will be self-defeating, though, from a game design perspective. And I can see how CCP doesn't want to give in to that.
LOL, there is a whole race out there doing exactly that. They're called Thukkers. They roam the stars and don't settle.
And again, it's his game, his playstyle. If he doesn't want to set a foot onto a station it's HIS PERSONAL decision.
I thought we got a sandbox here, not a freaking we-push-it-down-your-throat-themepark?
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Quote:
You don't like Minma CQ in Caldari Stations? - I couldn't care less as the others will come somewhat later.. so much about opinions and tastes.
Well, CCP's track record of finishing up on expansions they started earlier is less than stellar. So, I hope we really do get race-specific quarters later on.
And that's why you my little dear will wait another 4 years for the rest of the features that have been promised with Incarna.
I'm already over that stage of blind and hopeful thinking with CCP.
And exactly that's why I don't like them removing the current hangar in a haste and having it replaced with something that isn't according to the lore and less useful for our day to day needs.
Because we'll have to live with this for at least a year until something happens to it's usability.
CCP does that all the time.
I rather have a functional hangar all the time and Incarna when I want to enjoy it, then Incarna all the time with it's problems.
I was just on Sisi again to test the rclicking on a ship in the hangar to get it's cargo open.. sometimes it worked, sometimes not. Then it stopped working.
I could stand on the couch too, still.
I could jump onto the couch from behind. But I can't command my char to sit on it from further away, although the context menu is accessible. And the walker is completely capable to make it's way around furniture alone, so that's not an excuse.
Lighting still sucks, even on highest settings.
There will be many people who just want to relax and play the game and not fight a cumbersome 3D UI that is still bug ridden.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:11:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Mary Jane Insane
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Sucateira
I also can't see why people feel conditioned into MT. Saying that its so ridiculous that invalidate any decent post.
It's the same theory behind how shops and supermarkets setup their floors to encourage people to buy certain products. If you don't understand that you must be a victim often.
No dude... people that feel tempted and conditioned by it.. are the victims. CCP can block my entire screen with MT stuff that I wont buy it.
So I don't see in what should i feel conditioned for.
That is correct. But from a design perspective if you plonk the product in front of the buyer for long enough people will do it.
Because there has been no dev response to any of this issue, they can't give any good reason why the hanger view and CQ shouldn't be options which a player can switch between at will. If there is no technical reason (which I doubt there would be) then there has to be a design reason behind it. If there is no logical reason why the design wouldn't benefit being from having the dual system..on all levels, then I can only assume that it's been done for other reasons.
No dev is responding, at any point, the hundreds of times this has been brought up. But they have been responding to much lesser questions, which means they are reading the post and do not want to comment on the matter.
At this moment in time, the only reason I see is that it increases the time exposed to the AVATAR itself and the MT store. Time exposed is like advertising, and whether you realise it or not it has an effect on our purchasing habits. As well as this, for many people (not me) it is increasing the hardware requirements, forcing people to upgrade their graphics cards (nvidia deal). So at the end of the day this CQ implementation (and I'm pro CQ) is not being designed for enhancing the game.
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caldar ian
Final Destination.
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Posted - 2011.06.17 13:18:00 -
[116]
Agree with the o/p
This is the beginning of the end for eve.
I cant even be bothered to say any more, no one is listening to eve players.
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Sucateira
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:40:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Mary Jane Insane
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Sucateira
I also can't see why people feel conditioned into MT. Saying that its so ridiculous that invalidate any decent post.
It's the same theory behind how shops and supermarkets setup their floors to encourage people to buy certain products. If you don't understand that you must be a victim often.
No dude... people that feel tempted and conditioned by it.. are the victims. CCP can block my entire screen with MT stuff that I wont buy it.
So I don't see in what should i feel conditioned for.
That is correct. But from a design perspective if you plonk the product in front of the buyer for long enough people will do it.
Because there has been no dev response to any of this issue, they can't give any good reason why the hanger view and CQ shouldn't be options which a player can switch between at will. If there is no technical reason (which I doubt there would be) then there has to be a design reason behind it. If there is no logical reason why the design wouldn't benefit being from having the dual system..on all levels, then I can only assume that it's been done for other reasons.
No dev is responding, at any point, the hundreds of times this has been brought up. But they have been responding to much lesser questions, which means they are reading the post and do not want to comment on the matter.
At this moment in time, the only reason I see is that it increases the time exposed to the AVATAR itself and the MT store. Time exposed is like advertising, and whether you realise it or not it has an effect on our purchasing habits. As well as this, for many people (not me) it is increasing the hardware requirements, forcing people to upgrade their graphics cards (nvidia deal). So at the end of the day this CQ implementation (and I'm pro CQ) is not being designed for enhancing the game.
You have a valid point. But myself I'm not a victim to publicity that easy.
I also don't fall in the same lame practice of having more than one character to make my eve life easier. And that is much more game breaking and lame than any MT on my face all day.
I also don't buy computers to play. I buy them to work and study. If I can't play EVE on my machine after this expansion I'll just have to unsubscribe. That's how I work ehehe No MT's, no gaming rigs. This is casual to me and not a priority at all.
...sorry for the sucky unglish
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:47:00 -
[118]
Quote:
I also don't buy computers to play. I buy them to work and study. If I can't play EVE on my machine after this expansion I'll just have to unsubscribe. That's how I work ehehe No MT's, no gaming rigs. This is casual to me and not a priority at all.
So why are you even playing devil's advocate then? Or do you just play devil's advocate as a casual thing and not a priority at all?
On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
________________________________________________
Huh? |
Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:56:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 17/06/2011 13:59:06
You have a valid point. But myself I'm not a victim to publicity that easy.
I also don't fall in the same lame practice of having more than one character to make my eve life easier. And that is much more game breaking and lame than any MT on my face all day.
I also don't buy computers to play. I buy them to work and study. If I can't play EVE on my machine after this expansion I'll just have to unsubscribe. That's how I work ehehe No MT's, no gaming rigs. This is casual to me and not a priority at all.
...sorry for the sucky unglish
I just like the game and I want the game designed and improved so it is more fun, more usable with more features. I don't want it designed so people are encouraged subliminally to spend more RL money at the expense of the former points for improving the game. I don't mind MT or increased hardware requirements.
When the game is being designed for the purpose of advertising and not actual game play, then for me, it's time to stop playing. Especially if the design impedes current game play usage.
Because it means the developers no longer want it improved for the gamers who pay and play it.
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Mary Jane Insane
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Posted - 2011.06.17 14:08:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Quote:
I also don't buy computers to play. I buy them to work and study. If I can't play EVE on my machine after this expansion I'll just have to unsubscribe. That's how I work ehehe No MT's, no gaming rigs. This is casual to me and not a priority at all.
So why are you even playing devil's advocate then? Or do you just play devil's advocate as a casual thing and not a priority at all?
Well... i give the benefit of doubt (if i can translate from my language to this). Maybe they just want people to use the mechanics they are working for...for so long I guess.
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