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Q. for a DEV: Why is CCP removing the hangar view as an option?

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Mary Jane Insane	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:14:00 - [121] Edited by: Mary Jane Insane on 17/06/2011 14:14:06 Maybe they should use the same Carbon tech to remake the dock and give you guys both options then. Or maybe better... beeing able to change ship wihtout docking but making some nasty carbon animation with the ship transition. I just find silly to keep old tech and new tech all together. Dunno... Anyway... there's lot more gaming breaking and imersion breaking stuff atm. Like, start paying isk for each local chat line people write. Maybe it would not break my imersion from sily spam. And theres plenty of more, but I'm so casual that I cba to list. :))
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:25:00 - [122] Originally by: Mary Jane Insane Edited by: Mary Jane Insane on 17/06/2011 14:14:06 Maybe they should use the same Carbon tech to remake the dock and give you guys both options then. Or maybe better... beeing able to change ship wihtout docking but making some nasty carbon animation with the ship transition. I just find silly to keep old tech and new tech all together. Dunno... Anyway... there's lot more gaming breaking and imersion breaking stuff atm. Like, start paying isk for each local chat line people write. Maybe it would not break my imersion from sily spam. And theres plenty of more, but I'm so casual that I cba to list. :)) As far as I'm aware, the carbon tech refers to the way the code is integrated into the rest of eve, not the actual graphics engine itself. So the Incarna engine for CQ, and the spaceship graphics all come under CARBON. And from the CQ if you turn around the spaceship sitting above the balcony looks exactly the same as the ship spinny one in the hanger anyway. And what is this isk thing you are talking about with local chat? Are you referring to CSPA charge?
Mary Jane Insane	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:37:00 - [123] Originally by: Hannibal Ord Originally by: Mary Jane Insane Edited by: Mary Jane Insane on 17/06/2011 14:14:06 Maybe they should use the same Carbon tech to remake the dock and give you guys both options then. Or maybe better... beeing able to change ship wihtout docking but making some nasty carbon animation with the ship transition. I just find silly to keep old tech and new tech all together. Dunno... Anyway... there's lot more gaming breaking and imersion breaking stuff atm. Like, start paying isk for each local chat line people write. Maybe it would not break my imersion from sily spam. And theres plenty of more, but I'm so casual that I cba to list. :)) As far as I'm aware, the carbon tech refers to the way the code is integrated into the rest of eve, not the actual graphics engine itself. So the Incarna engine for CQ, and the spaceship graphics all come under CARBON. And from the CQ if you turn around the spaceship sitting above the balcony looks exactly the same as the ship spinny one in the hanger anyway. And what is this isk thing you are talking about with local chat? Are you referring to CSPA charge? I'm talking about different game breaking stuff that exist already. Like useless, childish local chat spam. I was proposing a isk charge for each line of text people write in there :) Anyway.. since I'm casual, maybe I can't see the problem at same dimension as you guys. Maybe i'm arguing more about immersion than gameplay. But ofc... delicate issues for delicate (or not) different people.. with different tastes and experiences. I just don't think this change its all about CCP promoting MT... shrug, maybe it is. Someone propose an outside station change ship thing. with the fancy animation they seem to like. :))
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:39:00 - [124] Originally by: Adunh Slavy You are forced to the CQ so you can see ... "Special, Today Only, Quaffe Pants! 3 Aurum, get em while supplies last!" You need a later shader model because all pants in Incarna are US sizes, needs more polygons
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:41:00 - [125] Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Adunh Slavy You are forced to the CQ so you can see ... "Special, Today Only, Quaffe Pants! 3 Aurum, get em while supplies last!" You need a later shader model because all pants in Incarna are US sizes, needs more polygons I read that as NEED MORE PYLONS!
Protokill Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:56:00 - [126] Glad I have an awesome computer! Can't wait for this update!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.17 16:41:00 - [127] Originally by: Protokill Glad I have an awesome computer! Can't wait for this update! Too bad the content is just like 20x40m2 and mixes up the former ship hangar view with the new Incarna view. Once you've seen it for some hours you wonder why you'd been so exited about it. And after you used it for some days you'll recognise the quirks and I think you'd want some functionality of the old ship hangar view back.. we'll see. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The 8th Order	Posted - 2011.06.17 17:02:00 - [128] Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 17/06/2011 17:05:25 The answer is painfully simple and CCP will not make any light on this question specifically because of it. It's the same reason paired items are spread out across a super market. CCP is going to shove the CQ down your throat, you are going to have to be exposed to it every single time you enter the station environment in the hopes that the more you are saturated by this empty content the more likely you are to break a plex and play barbie. CCP does not care about what you want, or what people who play this game for pvp want. They care about making a buck off forcing crap down our collective gullets. I dare any mod to make a statement to the contrary that carries any truth.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.17 17:14:00 - [129] Originally by: Jowen Datloran My guess to why CCP defaults you to captain quarters instead of the current hangar view is because they consider it bad game design to make a strict separation between the space game and Incarna. Even though it is this strict separation (or wall) the people here keep asking for. In some regard I can understand why; having a major part of the game "hidden" is generally not a good design. In fact, it seems like CQ will be used as an opportunity to advertise some other less known game features (such as pirate epic arcs) making these more assessable for players and further diminish the separation between the space game and Incarna. I'll have to disagree with your reasoning here because it could be used for almost every feature of the game. Has the in-space part of the game remained hidden from you for very long because you had to find the undock button and click on it? Are wormholes hopelessly forgotten because you have to fit special ship modules to find them? Etc. Discovery is one of the major features of EVE. And that includes discovering the tools. Originally by: Jowen Datloran Still, I too find it hugely immersion breaking that a pod pilot exits his pod every time he docks for a few seconds to recharge his capacitor and shields. Couldn't agree moore.
Hyperforce99 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.17 22:06:00 - [130] I do agree with people that say that incarna will allow players to discover other aspects of eve that have otherwise been hidden. I for one still havn't discovered how to actually start the galente epic arc. And i'm hoping the CQ will point me in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I do want to see Incarna become a usefull addition to EVE. I'm worried however that if the CQ is going to be forced onto players to sell some more in game monocles, that it will quickly lose its charm. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
Reid Lutman	Posted - 2011.06.18 00:46:00 - [131] I'm looking forward to CQ. For me, the current station look became stale long ago. It'll be refreshing to look at something new. It's also exciting to think how it will evolve in the future. Have some faith
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.18 00:52:00 - [132] Originally by: Reid Lutman Have some faith My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ.
Hal IV	Posted - 2011.06.18 00:55:00 - [133] /signed
Telvani Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber	Posted - 2011.06.18 01:01:00 - [134] /signed Failing to improve the game was not longer an option for CCP it seems, they are hell bent on making it worse.
Ronald Raygunn Amarr Inferi Legion	Posted - 2011.06.18 01:09:00 - [135] Originally by: Sandviched Originally by: Hyperforce99 Originally by: Sandviched -10/10 tribibad troll Yes if I were trolling this would be a horrible trolling thread, but since this is a genuine question, go seek your sandviches somewhere else. I'm sorry, am I messing up your perfect carebear dream? If your computer can't handle incarna then why complain? it's your fault your computer can't handle it? not ccp's also it's their product.. they can do what thy want with it.. not you You're either a CCP alt or a window licking, poisoned kool-aid drinking moron. In either case, 1) what does carebear have to do with it? and 2) the key to keeping your customer base is to keep them happy. I suspect that the former has something to do with being edgy and cool so players will think you're trendy and hip. The latter seems to go over your head. It's not my responsibility to buy a new PC because devs want to force things I don't want on me. If their cash grab affects performance of the game, I'll just stop playing, period. I will not buy stupid vanity items that serve no purpose other than to prey on our consumer mentality. If everyone else wants to, that's fine by me. But I pay for the game like all the rest of the players, and I believe that the option should be in our hands, not CCPs. If they don't like that, great. There are many other good MMOs that ill pay for and enjoy the way I want to play them.
Taedrin Gallente Zero Percent Tax Haven	Posted - 2011.06.18 01:18:00 - [136] GOOD GOD, why do you people have such short memories? CCP is not supporting both hangar view and CQ for the same reason why they don't support a Linux version of the client on top of Mac and PC and the same reason why they no longer support the "classic" client. MOre code to support is more expensive to support, produces more bugs to fix, which makes players unhappy. NOW TO BE HONEST, CCP should do what they did with the "classic" client - continue to support both code bases for a period while people take their time upgrading their computers to handle CQ reasonably well. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.18 01:24:00 - [137] Originally by: Reid Lutman I'm looking forward to CQ. For me, the current station look became stale long ago. It'll be refreshing to look at something new. It's also exciting to think how it will evolve in the future. Have some faith You know what they say about optimists? They're just bad informed pessimists The thing you seem to forget in your part about faith is CCPs track-record of failing to deliver excellence in the future. Let's be realistic and tell you a little story. CCP said last year roughly around this time (AUG/SEPT), their roadmap for Eve+Dust+WoD is fixed and can't be thrown over, as they already had invested too much into it and their hands were practically tied. They couldn't address the issues the CSM brought up which caused a longer period of torches and pitchforks being swung on several communication channels. In the face of this CCP reconsidered it's hard line on this and sc****d a small team together to work on small fixes, Team BFF. Practically the only one delivering excellence the last two expansions. CCP also said that they get to reschedule their roadmap in about 12 months so that more than those small bugfixes could be worked on, read stuff like Sov or FW or POS or the UI, stuff that is buggering Eve for years now in in dire need of a redesign/rework. Now, fast forward. Next Tuesday we get 1 CQ for all stations really just with the basics, no new gameplay there. Really just eyecandy and the bling for cash store. No new content. This was also be said to be about immersion and playing a character instead of a ship in accordance with the lore. CCP hasn't got the other 3 CQs ready, nor is there anything on the horizon for additional, fresh and new gameplay or content. Why I'm telling you this? Well, if CCP is going to start working on that old content already in game next run as promised roughly a year ago, when and with what manpower do they polish that Incarna stuff off (you know, boosters, black market, minigames, bars, conference rooms, fluff, etc.pp)? How long will Incarna simmer in it's current state? I know that CCP has a schedule for this on the desk and I'm amused that so far this one didn't make it to the blogs or forums. You might wonder why.. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Cypeth Ramir	Posted - 2011.06.18 02:14:00 - [138] /signed
Reid Lutman	Posted - 2011.06.18 02:18:00 - [139] Edited by: Reid Lutman on 18/06/2011 02:21:28 Edited by: Reid Lutman on 18/06/2011 02:19:23 Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/06/2011 01:32:40 Originally by: Reid Lutman I'm looking forward to CQ. For me, the current station look became stale long ago. It'll be refreshing to look at something new. It's also exciting to think how it will evolve in the future. Have some faith You know what they say about optimists? They're just bad informed pessimists The thing you seem to forget in your part about faith is CCPs track-record of failing to deliver excellence in the future. Let's me tell you a little story. CCP said last year roughly around this time (AUG/SEPT), their roadmap for Eve+Dust+WoD is fixed and can't be thrown over, as they already had invested too much into it and their hands were practically tied. They couldn't address issues the CSM brought up which caused a longer period of torches and pitchforks being swung on several communication channels. In the face of this CCP reconsidered it's hard line on this and scrped a small team together to work on little fixes, Team BFF. Practically the only one delivering said excellence the last two expansions. CCP also said that they get to reschedule their roadmap in about 12 months so that more than those small bugfixes could be worked on, read: stuff like Sov or FW or POS or the UI, stuff that is buggering Eve for years now and in dire need of a redesign/rework. Now, fast forward. Next Tuesday we'll get 1 CQ for all stations really just with the basics, no new gameplay there. Just eyecandy and the bling for cash store. No new content. This was also said to be about immersion and playing a character instead of a ship in accordance with the lore (in my eyse they failed that one partly, but whatever). CCP hasn't got the other 3 CQs ready yet, nor is there anything on the horizon for additional, fresh and new gameplay or content. Why am I telling you this? Well, if CCP is going to start working on that old content already in game in the next expansion-cycle as promised roughly a year ago, when and with what manpower do they polish that Incarna stuff off (you know, boosters, black market, minigames, bars, conference rooms, fluff, etc.pp)? How long will Incarna simmer in it's current state? I know that CCP has a schedule for this on the desk and I'm amused that so far this one didn't make it to the blogs or forums. You might wonder why.. CCP are always making updates and fixes to the game. They also release new content, which is important to keep the game feeling 'fresh'. They have an ambitious vision for the future and CQ is another step on this road. I subscribe to eve because of these comming developments. I think Eve is going places. I've been playing Eve for 7 years, and looking back it's easy to see that EVE has improved alot. Thats why there are alot more subscribers today (When i started peak server numbers were around 5/6k). That's why* i have faith. I think there's a silent majority of eve players that are looking forward to CQ.
Benilopax Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.18 02:29:00 - [140] Cos at the moment, if it was optional hardly anyone would use it as you can't do anything different in CQ than you can in pod. CCP want this to be tested by as many people as possible, basically anyone who's docked being in CQ will help CCP learn how to make Incarna work beyond the CQ. Maybe when we can go further than the CQ CCP will make it optional. CCP want incarna to work for EVE and WoD so we are going to have to deal with being Beta testers for a game we may never play. I'll call CCP out to tell me I'm wrong... ----------------------------------- New Eden Chronicles: Prime, Coming soon.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.18 02:38:00 - [141] Originally by: Reid Lutman snip CCP are always making updates and fixes to the game. They also release new content, which is important to keep the game feeling 'fresh'. snap I think there's a silent majority of eve players that are looking forward to CQ. The game might feel fresh, yes. But if stuff doesn't work as expected your customers aren't satisfied. Which brings us to your 2nd point there. No doubt the majority is looking forward to Incarna.. I know I am, but there is that with those expectations and how CCP handles them. From my personal POV they handle them badly and this is why we get thread-noughts with nerd-rage once those features make it to TQ. I got nothing against hyping Incarna and the dress-up and stuff.. all dandy. Same about nice-to-have-but-not-on-the-horizon-gameplay-content for that thingy. But CCP should also have the dignity and professionalism to tell it's customers what they can realistically expect and when this roughly might be. And if there are valid (well, in my POV) questions and concerns regarding this new feature, they should be addressed.. you know, to like manage expectations. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Malak Alraheem	Posted - 2011.06.18 02:39:00 - [142] So I went to SiSi to see what all the fuss was about. So am I to understand that all the functionality of the task bar on the left side is slated to actually go away? Because it was all there when I took a look. Oh sure, you can walk around and waste a crap load of time trying to figure out how to do some basic stuff, but you never actually HAVE to leave the balcony if you don't want to. The Scotty timer appears to be based from when you hit 'dock'. Now if the hangar and all the other functionality from the left side IS going away then yeah, something needs to be done about this mess, but if not, it does not 'appear' to be that big of a deal.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.18 03:19:00 - [143] Originally by: Malak Alraheem So I went to SiSi to see what all the fuss was about. So am I to understand that all the functionality of the task bar on the left side is slated to actually go away? Because it was all there when I took a look. Oh sure, you can walk around and waste a crap load of time trying to figure out how to do some basic stuff, but you never actually HAVE to leave the balcony if you don't want to. The Scotty timer appears to be based from when you hit 'dock'. Now if the hangar and all the other functionality from the left side IS going away then yeah, something needs to be done about this mess, but if not, it does not 'appear' to be that big of a deal. Why not just read the OP? It's all there in very simple terms. And yes, some of the current hangar functionality was removed in the CQ implementation on SISI.
Malak Alraheem	Posted - 2011.06.18 04:29:00 - [144] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Malak Alraheem So I went to SiSi to see what all the fuss was about. So am I to understand that all the functionality of the task bar on the left side is slated to actually go away? Because it was all there when I took a look. Oh sure, you can walk around and waste a crap load of time trying to figure out how to do some basic stuff, but you never actually HAVE to leave the balcony if you don't want to. The Scotty timer appears to be based from when you hit 'dock'. Now if the hangar and all the other functionality from the left side IS going away then yeah, something needs to be done about this mess, but if not, it does not 'appear' to be that big of a deal. Why not just read the OP? It's all there in very simple terms. And yes, some of the current hangar functionality was removed in the CQ implementation on SISI. Ok, I looked again at the OP and the only piece missing is that the prototype version shown three years ago made you kick an extra button to get in to the quarters rather than logging in directly as it is now. (unless there is something much deeper in the video that I might have skipped). Now, I just went back to SiSi to see the 'some of the current hangar functionality was removed in the CQ implementation on SISI.' you mention. Now it is late here and I am a bit tired, so I freely admit I might have missed something, but I could not see any loss of functionality to the client from when I docked to when I flew back out other than I was now standing on a useless catwalk and I cannot freely spin my ship anymore. I could check the market, refit and reload my ship, change ships, chat in comms, look at my notepad, etc the same way I could before. All of it done without having to once 'walk anywhere'. What change did you observe that resulted in a loss of functionality?
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.18 04:43:00 - [145] Originally by: Malak Alraheem snip I could check the market, refit and reload my ship, change ships, chat in comms, look at my notepad, etc the same way I could before. All of it done without having to once 'walk anywhere'. What change did you observe that resulted in a loss of functionality? Try to do the following on Sisi and TQ: - swap ship by drag+drop it from the ship window into the hangar - doubleclick ship to open cargobay - rclick ship to open drone bay/cargo bay PI was disliked (besides other design faults) for it's enormous clicking for simple tasks. You still can do some of the above, but now you have to aim your mouse on the small yellow 3D ship interface all the time. So far my avatar faces the CQ upon docking, not the 3D ship interface. Every time. And when you log in on the station the small 3D ship interface on the table doesn't respond unless you walk forward. Every time. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Prey Forme	Posted - 2011.06.18 05:05:00 - [146] I have watched the video showing the CQ and it reminds me of some badly coded FPS. If they do go ahead and force this on people, I think they are going to be in a lot of trouble. I didn't sign up for this and I don't want it. What next? Goblins, fairy's and quests for the sword of ages. :)
Malak Alraheem	Posted - 2011.06.18 05:11:00 - [147] Edited by: Malak Alraheem on 18/06/2011 05:11:21 Originally by: Tres Farmer - swap ship by drag+drop it from the ship window into the hangar - doubleclick ship to open cargobay - rclick ship to open drone bay/cargo bay OK, fair enough. I can see why you would be annoyed with the changes. -I always right click on the ship in the ships menu and choose 'make active' -I double click on the ship in the ship menu to open the cargo bay -I either right-click on the ship in the ship menu or click on the drone bay in the lower left of the fitting window. The way you do things is not the way I do things so did not see those changes. All three of the examples you give above I handled directly through the ship menu by right clicking on the ship or via the fittings window (both of which are still present) and none of it via the annoying holographic 3d ship projector that was added to CQ. Yeah, if I were you I guess I would be unhappy. Thank you for showing me what I missed.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.18 05:18:00 - [148] Originally by: Malak Alraheem Originally by: Tres Farmer - swap ship by drag+drop it from the ship window into the hangar - doubleclick ship to open cargobay - rclick ship to open drone bay/cargo bay OK, fair enough. I can see why you would be annoyed with the changes. -I always right click on the ship in the ships menu and choose 'make active' -I double click on the ship in the ship menu to open the cargo bay -I either right-click on the ship in the ship menu or click on the drone bay in the lower left of the fitting window. The way you do things is not the way I do things so did not see those changes. All three of the examples you give above I handled directly through the ship menu by right clicking on the ship or via the fittings window (both of which are still present) and none of it via the annoying holographic 3d ship projector that was added to CQ. Yeah, if I were you I guess I would be unhappy. Thank you for showing me what I missed. No worries. Most of the times it's the bigger picture that's being missed. Personally I don't swap ships that often, so I don't actually use the drag+drop option. The other two I use on a regular basis though. And if CCP were aware of these issues (try to bugreport them, I dare you, LOL) they could work around this with some minor tweaks. What instead will happen is a threadnought on/after patch-day that will complain about those features (and others I missed), because the Dev's don't post in the test-server-forums, which in return implies it's being ignored, which causes less people to post there in the first place, etc pp. .. negative feedback loop. Result: CCP fails at excellence and expectation management. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Hyperforce99 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.18 10:38:00 - [149] Originally by: Taedrin GOOD GOD, why do you people have such short memories? CCP is not supporting both hangar view and CQ for the same reason why they don't support a Linux version of the client on top of Mac and PC and the same reason why they no longer support the "classic" client. MOre code to support is more expensive to support, produces more bugs to fix, which makes players unhappy. NOW TO BE HONEST, CCP should do what they did with the "classic" client - continue to support both code bases for a period while people take their time upgrading their computers to handle CQ reasonably well. Code wise the CQ is a layer on top of the current hangar system. The entire set is still there, the hangars, the ships, the lighting and rendering engine are un-altered, or at the very least, still capable of supporting the same functionality as it has been since the start of EVE. The MORE code your talking about is the code thats adding in the CQ using the carbon tech. So, I can't believe that supporting both the hangar and the CQ as separate environments is as hard to achieve as you think. Because if the CQ layer is not active the hangar is still there, supporting the original camera drone view really doesn't add that much more code... especially since the main HUD of the game, the NeoCom has been unaltered. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.06.18 17:04:00 - [150] Just a scant few days left for CCP to ignore this and other threads before we can all look forward to hopping into the feedback and issues threads about all the stupid changes that didn't have to be made the way they were or about all the bugs forcing said environment has spawned unto us.

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You need a later shader model because all pants in Incarna are US sizes, needs more polygons

You need a later shader model because all pants in Incarna are US sizes, needs more polygons