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CCP's stance on the outcome of AT9

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Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.20 06:41:00 - [1] I've read most of the reaction from the player base about the outcome of AT9, and both sides have made some valid points. I'm going to leave my opinion on the matter out of this thread for sake of keeping this constructive. To this point CCP has done a very good job of staying far away from any thread regarding the finals situation. Judging from the amount of resources invested in the event, and the anger from players, id say CCP can't be too pleased. But with no reaction so far i find myself wondering what the official stance on this is around the CCP office. Dev response would be awesome.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.20 06:49:00 - [2] I have no idea what happened but I'd love to hear about it Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Emmerik Gallente NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 06:54:00 - [3] Well CCP knew there were a lot of A and B teams. and chances of serveral matches being rigged we're pretty big.
Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.20 06:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Emmerik Well CCP knew there were a lot of A and B teams. and chances of serveral matches being rigged we're pretty big. I agree they probably knew a few matches would be rigged, but i dont think they would have hyped and invested the amount of resources that they did knowing the final would noncompetitive
Emmerik Gallente NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:02:00 - [5] They should try to be more selective on who can/may enter the tournament. Goonswarm for example (aka PL B team), pure shame they got in and "the real Goonswarm" not(Easy for me to say being a Goon, I know!)
Avensys	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:06:00 - [6] We had thrown matches, sold tournament spots, questionable metagaming, ... in previous tournaments. Not sure why people are so upset this time (does it really mater if those last two ships got killed or not? you got to see how the match would have ended without the hero vindicator) but that's all very much within the spirit of EVE (and tolerated as such). If you think the "real" EVE outside of AT is one bit different you have probably never left the rookie NPC corp...
Emmerik Gallente NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Emmerik on 20/06/2011 07:15:23 "If you think the "real" EVE outside of AT is one bit different you have probably never left the rookie NPC corp..." I centainly don't think that... but whould be a much cooler tournament is stuff whould change... and every year there are treads about it on the forums. I did not say Goonswarm Federation is better, did I?
Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Avensys We had thrown matches, sold tournament spots, questionable metagaming, ... in previous tournaments. Not sure why people are so upset this time (does it really mater if those last two ships got killed or not? you got to see how the match would have ended without the hero vindicator) but that's all very much within the spirit of EVE (and tolerated as such). If you think the "real" EVE outside of AT is one bit different you have probably never left the rookie NPC corp... I think you misunderstand. This isnt a whine thread about the match being rigged, tbh it doesn't bother me either way. while you are right it is a perfect snap shot of the community, i still find it to be a little anticlimactic after all the hype this year. I am just interested to here from ccp what they thought about the whole thing.
Arm Smith	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:18:00 - [9] Has to be said was disapointing. but everyone knows the truth that hydra got absolutley spanked off the field. Just ashame they pulled out the 'let us win card'
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:26:00 - [10] I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance.
Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:38:00 - [11] Edited by: Lei Fai on 20/06/2011 07:42:12 Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. Huh? what does it refer to? Also, nothing has been said, so their opinion does not have to change. readable posts only pls Edit: i would **** up punctuation while insulting someone....
cpu939 Gallente Volatile Nature Bloodbound.	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:49:00 - [12] personally i think the ending to this AT was great not only did hyrda and outcome beat the others teams they gave us all tears to swim in
Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:55:00 - [13] Originally by: cpu939 personally i think the ending to this AT was great not only did hyrda and outcome beat the others teams they gave us all tears to swim in quite true, all the drama has made this AT a much bigger deal than if it would have just ended in a normal fashion.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.20 08:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Avensys Not sure why people are so upset this time (does it really mater if those last two ships got killed or not? you got to see how the match would have ended without the hero vindicator) but that's all very much within the spirit of EVE (and tolerated as such). If the final match is not a serious fight then you get to watch a sucker fest and not a tournament. It is never fun to watch those who are having fun. Most people want to see a drama unfold and proper fights down to the last bit of hull, and not teams who are padding one another on the back for successfully meta-gaming the tournament and avoiding all drama. CCP should kick out teams who throw matches and ban them for one or two tournaments. Bring back the drama and the need for popcorn! --
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.20 08:45:00 - [15] I believe CCP is caught between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, they know their player base consists of adolescent and young adult males acting like prepubescent children tossing herp derp, lololol, and "intnet spaseships iz sereous biznezz" as cool catch phrases. The chest thumping and "my e-peen is bigger than yours beatch" is the foundation of Eve. But on the other hand, CCP wants the appearance of being a professional company with serious goals. Partnering with companies like Sony means CCP wants to play with the big boys; and acting like their core player base just will not cut it in the business world. So in this particular situation, I would not be surprised if CCP remains silent. If they side with their core base, "What a **ing ending - that was bad ass manipulation!", then a current or potential future business partner might question why many of CCP's player base disliked such an ending. Their reasoning translates into disgruntled customers subtly affects the possible buying habits for these partners' goods and services. And if CCP laments to this year's winners just how bad that ending was (and as of this writing sides with what appears to be a majority of dislikes), these same winners and supporters can claim, "WTF CCP - you let us do this ** the whole year so what is one more day?" So I feel CCP will remain silent in this matter. But I could be wrong - CCP could be making a statement as I type this out!
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.20 08:51:00 - [16] This is EVE. It has happened, it will happen and we should embrace that rather than getting upset. Each terrible thread like this only drives their will to do it even more. Turn your attention to CCP. They decided not to broadcast the pre-qualifier matches , and that the entire studio format was so they could drag developers in to talk about micro-transaction bull**. What an epic, **ing waste of money on their part. Get commentary. Broadcast fights. End of story. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.20 09:35:00 - [17] Edited by: salty Milk on 20/06/2011 09:35:52 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1530601&page=36#1056 Maybe this is CCP's stance. Maybe you won't like it. So maybe you will ignore it. Originally by: CCP Navigator Originally by: Empress Chimera This contest should be nullified. Save the prize for tomorrow. The winner is the winner whether they throw a match or not. This is EVE and underhand tactics should always be expected.
flapie 2 Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 10:11:00 - [18] Originally by: salty Milk Edited by: salty Milk on 20/06/2011 09:35:52 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1530601&page=36#1056 Maybe this is CCP's stance. Maybe you won't like it. So maybe you will ignore it. Originally by: CCP Navigator Originally by: Empress Chimera This contest should be nullified. Save the prize for tomorrow. The winner is the winner whether they throw a match or not. This is EVE and underhand tactics should always be expected. Totaly unrelated topic, totaly unrelated reply.
Discrodia Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.20 11:19:00 - [19] Originally by: flapie 2 Originally by: salty Milk Edited by: salty Milk on 20/06/2011 09:35:52 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1530601&page=36#1056 Maybe this is CCP's stance. Maybe you won't like it. So maybe you will ignore it. Originally by: CCP Navigator Originally by: Empress Chimera This contest should be nullified. Save the prize for tomorrow. The winner is the winner whether they throw a match or not. This is EVE and underhand tactics should always be expected. Totaly unrelated topic, totaly unrelated reply. Totally unrelated poster talking about their totally unrelated lack of intellect. Originally by: anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
Mysterious Warrior	Posted - 2011.06.20 11:23:00 - [20] What was wrong with final? Laedy is best eve player and mighty Laedy space ship killed all other space ships. Good end to tournament, if laedy hadn't won all battle then tournament maybe still going on and have to listen to boring men talking about alliance tournament still. Glad it over; somehow got full screen and I stuck watching space ships and boring talking all afternoon.
flapie 2 Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 11:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Discrodia Totally unrelated poster talking about their totally unrelated lack of intellect. Owww look a Toll just trolling around, lets take a picture befor they become rare.
Sir Hillary	Posted - 2011.06.20 11:37:00 - [22] I have no issue with the metagaming going on around the tournament. It wouldn't be EVE without backroom deals going on all throughout. However, the final was disapointing, just because it wasn't much of a match. They knew which team was going to "win" going in to the final, again, I have no problem with that. I just would have been nice if they'd had a proper fight down to 1 ship left on one of the teams, and then self distructed to throw the match if the wrong side was ahead (or something like that). Obvious match fixing remains obvious, but we actually get to see a fight.

CCP Soundwave C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.20 11:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :)

salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:00:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) CCP getting in on the trolling, there's plenty to go round! also, you're too late, hydrabreak have already decided the final placings for AT10. Get ready for a twist !!!
Jos Wijnants	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:05:00 - [25] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) Well ,the staged final is the talk of the day,sure you don,t have to have a stance or opinion about it.
Rebbecca Black	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:20:00 - [26] I know it was an anticlimactic outcome, but what did you expect them to do.. drop 200 dreads on 50 titans? Oh wait we aren't discussing the end of the NC? So the AT9 had a ton of great fights leading up to an anticlimactic ending?? My bad. These things happen so often in EVE it's easy to get confused. But that's the beauty of it. You're *****ing about one match out of dozens, and it's no surprise that there is meta gaming. In EVE we don't attempt to hide these things, we embrace it. CRY MOAR
Ineka	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:33:00 - [27] CCP done a great job providing this on eve-tv, revues were really nice comments from the "experts" were some times hilarious, CCP dev's and GM's coming out there and give of their personal time to have opened discussions etc was really awesome. We had very good matches, some of those were obviously penalised by meta gaming but nothing can be taken about the winners skill when it comes to fight. What I can say is that their attitude in that last match was like a slap in ccp's face for all they're efforts and to those thousands fans watching and waiting other thing than what we saw. Feel sorry for everyone putting so much effort to offer us nice stuff and that players actions once again, waste the stuff. It's ok, it's eve, someone from one of those teams had the decency to come apologise to the community and that deserves /hat off, not sure some one else would do it. But I'm not sure this will be enough to regain Eve community respect again, and that is sad for every one under those flags. Hoping every one and precisely the participants help CCP improve those rules so this one year event is not wasted any more for so many people.
knobber Jobbler Holding Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:37:00 - [28] Normally CCP would have the PR machine posting away on Facebook and news sites about how well the tourament went. It's been pretty quiet so far...which is much more telling than any CCP spod replying to a forum post.
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 13:17:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. You don't need to, but come on - indulge us.
Brahan Seer Tea Tactics	Posted - 2011.06.20 13:33:00 - [30] Everyone will have forgotten about it this time next week when everyone will be moaning about something else. Such as EVE. Get over it. They have a whole year to sort out some new rules. Anyway, the final was comedy gold _________- Since 2004
Cpt Pugwash Caldari Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2011.06.20 13:52:00 - [31] It is not easy for CCP, they put a lot of time, money and effort into the Alliance Tournement and inevitably it isn't always perfect. Rather than *** about something seemingly out of CCP control why not suggest ways CCP can improve the AT. How would you stop people entering second teams? Personally I would offer teams the ability to nominate a second team and offer as an insentive the gurantee of separate draws in the groups and knock stages. This would legitamise the second teams and prevent any skullduggery before the final. How do you stop meta gaming in the AT? You don't - it is an unfortunate aspect of life that people will try to get whatever advantage they think they can get away with. It is not restricted to Eve, see drugs in sports, Team orders in F1 and all kinds of skulldugery in business. MMO's have a near impossible task of policing their games and CCP have taken the opinion that rather than try to police meta gaming they will allow it as part of the flavour of the game, and with that, it should come as no surprise that it is also a part of the AT. If you want to blame anybody for yesterdays final then blame the players involved. What they did devalued the AT and their own achievements and they should be thoroughly ashamed. If you think you can do a better AT then write to CCP with your suggestions.**
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.20 13:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Brahan Seer Everyone will have forgotten about it this time next week when everyone will be moaning about something else. Unless it repeats. Then people will remember it, at which point the event loses some of its prestige. I cannot watch another Minmatar rush team and the Slepnir has become the new Drake. --
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Cpt Pugwash If you want to blame anybody for yesterdays final then blame the players involved. What they did devalued the AT and their own achievements and they should be thoroughly ashamed. I'm sure they'll be ashamed all the way to the bank. It's too easy to blame the 'players' for the whole debacle just because CCP have already gone into full scale 'if we ignore this long enough we don't have to say anything about it' mode. (Most 0.0 pilots will be familiar with this mode from when an alliance bloc loses 5-10 super caps to a dead node.)
Cpt Pugwash Caldari Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:09:00 - [34] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I'm sure they'll be ashamed all the way to the bank. It's too easy to blame the 'players' for the whole debacle just because CCP have already gone into full scale 'if we ignore this long enough we don't have to say anything about it' mode. (Most 0.0 pilots will be familiar with this mode from when an alliance bloc loses 5-10 super caps to a dead node.) I wouldn't expect a goon to understand, I am in fact surprised youa re not praising the winning teams for **ting up the AT, or does that only come if a goon **s something up? If you really care about the AT then do as I have already suggested, engage your brain and make suggestions on how the AT can be improved and how CCP could discourage this in future.
Teala Te'Jir Amarr Mr. Benjamin Enterprises	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:19:00 - [35] Do you know what I remember about last years matches. I remember the Hero Battle Badger, I remember the destruction of two previously won special tourney frigs, I also recall many matches that were thrown, I remember PL kicking everyones butts and the final match between PL and Hydra was a snooze fest, it was over so fast. I recall the cool ad that was played during the tournament about Iceland. That is what I remember of last years tournament. Good times.
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Cpt Pugwash If you really care about the AT then do as I have already suggested, engage your brain and make suggestions on how the AT can be improved and how CCP could discourage this in future. CCP already said that the whole matter has been shelved until ATX so no, I wouldn't encourage anyone to waste their time coming up with helpful solutions that will just fade into the ether. Instead, I'm encouraging everyone to appreciate the final for what it was: an eve alliance delivering an expensive **** you to the developers. Would I have done it in the same situation? No, probably not. But I can appreciate art when I see it.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:23:00 - [37] Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 20/06/2011 14:23:35 Yeah, obviously they're going to admit publically how the AT-thingy got f*ed in the rear end...
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:27:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) If you read between the lines, it means they didn't expect this outcome but can do nothing about it since no rules are in place to address it. Much like the scam contracts in EVE. Not a nice things but the game mechanics allow it. But, since the majority of viewers are butthurt about this, they will be changing the rules.
Jos Wijnants	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:30:00 - [39] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Originally by: Cpt Pugwash If you really care about the AT then do as I have already suggested, engage your brain and make suggestions on how the AT can be improved and how CCP could discourage this in future. CCP already said that the whole matter has been shelved until ATX so no, I wouldn't encourage anyone to waste their time coming up with helpful solutions that will just fade into the ether. Instead, I'm encouraging everyone to appreciate the final for what it was: an eve alliance delivering an expensive **** you to the developers. Would I have done it in the same situation? No, probably not. But I can appreciate art when I see it. indeed ,so CCP will keep their mouth shut about this ,in the hope a lot of people forget what happened and do the same thing again at a possible ATX?
salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:47:00 - [40] with publicity like this i doubt they will change a thing, the sponsors will be paying double next year to get a 30 second spot before a hydra match unless ccp take the opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:50:00 - [41] Originally by: salty Milk with publicity like this i doubt they will change a thing, the sponsors will be paying double next year to get a 30 second spot before a hydra match unless ccp take the opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot yes, but do you honestly think people will tune in to watch a rigged match?
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:55:00 - [42] Originally by: salty Milk with publicity like this i doubt they will change a thing, the sponsors will be paying double next year to get a 30 second spot before a hydra match unless ccp take the opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot Publicity like what? I think you might be the only one around here who hasn't noticed that CCP has suddenly gone very very quiet about the whole thing.
Ioci Gallente Space Mermaids	Posted - 2011.06.20 14:58:00 - [43] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) Your missing the point I think. I saw one mixed fleet and it was a faction, BPC drop fleet. That's the first Alliance tournament I ever watched and it was very accurate to EVE. FotM fleets that are so effective you either build the FotM fleet or don't participate. People say EVE is dying. They need to finish that sentence. EVE Quality is dying. You guys can't ruleset a 'fair' tournament because we build our own fleets and if I bring anything but FotM, it dies. How do you regulate that?
Ineka	Posted - 2011.06.20 15:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Ioci Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) Your missing the point I think. I saw one mixed fleet and it was a faction, BPC drop fleet. That's the first Alliance tournament I ever watched and it was very accurate to EVE. FotM fleets that are so effective you either build the FotM fleet or don't participate. People say EVE is dying. They need to finish that sentence. EVE Quality is dying. You guys can't ruleset a 'fair' tournament because we build our own fleets and if I bring anything but FotM, it dies. How do you regulate that? With a bigger blob !
Jos Wijnants	Posted - 2011.06.20 15:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas on 20/06/2011 15:01:33 Originally by: salty Milk with publicity like this i doubt they will change a thing, the sponsors will be paying double next year to get a 30 second spot before a hydra match unless ccp take the opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot Publicity like what? I think you might be the only one around here who hasn't noticed that CCP has suddenly gone very very quiet about the whole thing. [To clarify: CCP didn't spend a truckload of money flying people over to Iceland to sell Eve to people who already play Eve.] this
Zondrail Formic Hive	Posted - 2011.06.20 15:09:00 - [46] I feel like there are really only two ways to treat this. I think if you keep it as is, where throwing games, buying out teams, and loading the brackets with your own B teams is allowed and/or encouraged. The tournament needs to be pushed much more as an in-game event... part of the actual game and story of EVE. On the other hand... if you want this to be treated as an authentic e-sport (if I dare use the term), then this needs to go to a new level where teams have to have a physical presence, people can be banned on a player by player basis (let's be honest there's not going to be an easy way for CCP to keep anyone or any team out of the tournament, given that Alliances can be made at will). You also have to tie the consequences closely with the players that are actually participating. This is really the only way I could see being able to force the usual set of competition ethics into the alliance tournaments.
flapie 2 Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 15:10:00 - [47] Edited by: flapie 2 on 20/06/2011 15:11:35 Originally by: CCP Soundwave Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) I think you should be ahead of your game insted of running up behind it, this has been a discussion for several years now. And yet the "open" ruleset dint changes one bit to prevent it. Now it collapsed most people are ****ed off, proll half of them wont look again next year, the other half will proll only watch iff there are more changes to the event its setup. Maybe its time for a slight change of tactics ?? Just my 2isk tho.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.20 16:10:00 - [48] Reminds me of this . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Dr Djago Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.20 16:18:00 - [49] Edited by: Dr Djago on 20/06/2011 16:18:56 Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) CCP Soundwave FFS, stop dancing around the bushes just told us something will be changed for next year to stop some of the community anger. And remember you too were getting shafted along side with rest of 28,000 players.
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.06.20 18:49:00 - [50] For me, the main attraction of Tournament was that it was the ONE PLACE in new eden that equal fleets could battle on equal terms and actually find out who had the better ships/fittings/FCs/pilots. Now that AT is nothing more than the big alliances fixing matches and fielding b (and c) teams in order to make billions from the free ships, I really don't give two solitary ****s about it. A sad end to what was once actually quite an exciting tournament.
James Moroci	Posted - 2011.06.20 18:52:00 - [51] u have to be abilionare to be in the AT. wich is a shame.. there should be catagories. so all can attend not only the billionairs from the wealthy alliances..
slightly sillydude	Posted - 2011.06.20 18:53:00 - [52] It was lame but they did still beat all the other contenders, its not like they cheated.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:02:00 - [53] Originally by: slightly sillydude It was lame but they did still beat all the other contenders, its not like they cheated. But this is not what this is all about. Imagine Argentina and Brazil in the soccer World Cup Final. Imagine Brazil winning the first half of the match. Then imagine how both teams walk onto the field for the second half, pulling their shorts down and begin to ** for the rest of the match. Both teams may be great at soccer, both may be from South America, but the match will ultimately enter the history books as the Match of the **ers. --
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:09:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) I'm sure your real prize Sponsors won't be so amused - I wouldn't be, and this whole "it's EVE" thing isn't cutting it. Your viewers think you should be embarrassed about the outcome because they see it as a disgrace to the tournaments integrity. The fact that you didn't have an after fight discussion about it that is memorable, there wasn't really any amused smiling laughing, enjoyable moment. There was no, "Let us get the whole EVE TV Crew on deck and in front of the camera" like you have done every other year to celebrate the outcome is telling. Your stance is pretty clear - and I think you need to take action on it for the integrity of the tournament this year and next. Not seeing what the lack of action is going to have on next year's tournament is clearly going against the wisdom and history of years of prior sports competition in the REAL WORLD - you want to say "EVE IS REAL" then you better deal with real consequences. "EVE" reflects the real world - there is nothing amazing or "meta-game" about the outcome. It was cheap and weak. Everyone feels like this - anyone who is amused has a childish and short-sighted attitude. It's not that people take the tournament "too-seriously" it's that people have an inherent sense of integrity - no matter how close they are to a subject in seriousness. And the Tournament has lost its integrity.
Tech two UK1 Zero	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:10:00 - [55] Outbreak and Hydra just raised the bar. You want to not get spied on before a match? You know now what to do. You can't stop 2 good friends working together.... if they are good enough. Outbreak has never really been in Hydra for long. This has to be the most talked about AT match ever! Was it an ideal ending? No.. has it given CCP food for thought? YES! Also, what is to stop the rich alliances, just buying a load of high skilled chars, setting up a brand new alliance and playing as them? Has anyone ever stopped to think that some of the unheard or not well known alliances in this tournament were just offshoots of other alliances? But they were crap and didn't win so that's ok right?
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:18:00 - [56] As long as you're aware of the bff relationship between the 2 teams you could make it (via rules) so that they meet each other before the finals. That's about all you can do. So many matches APPEARED to be thrown (the command link drake taking off in the wrong direction, the tengu who burned out his launchers) that it's impossible to tell for sure unless you make it as obvious as the clowns involved here did. The other big flaw in this tournament is the points. By now they should get it right so that all hulls are at least somewhat likely to appear. If that means assigning different points (using decimals where appropriate, of course) to different ships of the same class and tier, so be it.
Vaarun Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Bloodpetal Everyone feels like this - anyone who is amused has a childish and short-sighted attitude. It's not that people take the tournament "too-seriously" it's that people have an inherent sense of integrity - no matter how close they are to a subject in seriousness. And the Tournament has lost its integrity. Pure poetry and spot-on. You summarized the communities sentiments beautifully. o7 "To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees." -Vaarun
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:29:00 - [58] Dynamic tournament draw will eliminate some of meta-gaming. No more those 1st place of group E will play 2nd place of group D. All 1st placed teams enter a pool, all 2nd placed teams enter another pool. They are drawn one against another. Only alliances with visible (will be defined by CCP) and continuous presence on killboards will be eligible. No more crappy alt alliances no one heard about. No more "reborn" alliances that were sleeping in their graves up until it was a right moment to enter AT registration. As for metagaming in general, it can be minimized, but it cannot be eliminated. It's human nature - ppl in general will do morally wrong, low and disgusting things to get an advantage. Isn't it what is happening in life? Will you refrain from little tricks and intrigues when your promotion or career is at stake? Eve is just the reflection of human nature, nothing more. Of course it would be better to leave those things out of MMOs, but you can't change ppl.
P42ALPHA Gallente DeadOn.	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:39:00 - [59] Simple solution. If players dont want to compete in a torny. Dont have one. No need to hand out free stuff to ppl just showing up. Or have a player torny instead, and ccp will match up players into 10 man fleets, and have the point system only effect the player, and not a whole team. That will create true tears. I can hear all the hard core 0.0 carebears. "But, but, I cant give orders on TS" LAWL
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:41:00 - [60] I think the 'one team per alliance' rule is stupid, tbh. As long as the total prize pool value is not significantly higher (and preferably slightly lower) than the total value of entry fees + likely ship losses (net of insurance) then the more the merrier, afaic. It's really not fair that a small alliance with a dozen competent PVPers can field the same number of teams as a huge alliance with hundreds of competent PVPers. (And FWIW I'm someone who tends to fart in the general direction of large alliances.)
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:41:00 - [61] oh how I wish there was a sportsmanship clause in the AT. It will however remain a neat and fun idea, except when it blows chunks. AG *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.20 19:48:00 - [62] The offending alliances provided more EVE content for you guys than this upcoming expansion ever will. You should be clamoring for more prizes and awards for those guys. ... If you like choice please support this topic in the Assembly Hall. Thanks.
Obviously Confidential Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2011.06.20 20:19:00 - [63] This Please note that changing the fundamentals of a game to appease viewers or make it more broadcast friendly and entertaining is a path that affected some real life sports more than others, with different opinions about this being a good or a bad thing. Some people prefer the integrity of the sports event, they want to be fed with reality and don't mind seeing unexpected or boring things. They even like sports with very few rules, encouraging all sorts of behaviors. Some people prefer to be entertained and approach sports venues like the movies or any other kind of show. They take comfort in a competition bounded by lots of fixed rules and abhor unexpected behavior, even judging it as unsportsmanlike. That said, EVE tournaments are not sport. They are an EVE competition. AT9 was a good portrayal of what an EVE competition is like, measured in terms of the kind of effort that players put up, the meta gaming schemes involved and also of course how intra player dynamics can lead to unexpected things. CCP did an awesome job with the telecast, the commentators were awesome, it was a good show all the way and the player base was entertained. If some players were surprised by the last 15min and became angry, this was largely compensated by the current controversy and forum posting activity, which people also seem to love.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.20 20:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Razin The offending alliances provided more EVE content for you guys than this upcoming expansion ever will. You should be clamoring for more prizes and awards for those guys. In exactly the same way that someone beaten to death in a drunken brawl near a local pub provides more "content" in tabloids than a local rock band performance the same evening in the same pub. Does that mean the thugs need a prize, not a time behind bars?
Managalar Gallente PREMM Technologies TRE GAFFEL	Posted - 2011.06.20 20:37:00 - [65] Originally by: Obviously Confidential Some people prefer to be entertained and approach sports venues like the movies or any other kind of show. They take comfort in a competition bounded by lots of fixed rules and abhor unexpected behavior, even judging it as unsportsmanlike. Quote: This exactly. People are asking to have space Nascar - where all ships are the same and everyone follows the 'rules'. ===================== =====================
Moolti Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.06.20 20:48:00 - [66] New Rule please: Pilots most belong to the corp for 6 month, corp must belong to alliance for 6 months continuously prior to the pre-qualifying matches. @)}---^----- The Jove are a warning to us all. We must remember to live and Love and feel. Fall in Love, make Love, be beautful and see the beautiful. For we mustn't loose our human spark
Borun Tal Minmatar Just Abide	Posted - 2011.06.20 20:53:00 - [67] tl;dr So CCP ended the final match while two ships were still alive? What happened? Did the two pilots throw the match, or CCP screw up, or what? Details, and no, I don't want to read an uber-thread.
Randomize All	Posted - 2011.06.20 21:56:00 - [68] Originally by: Moolti New Rule please: Pilots most belong to the corp for 6 month, corp must belong to alliance for 6 months continuously prior to the pre-qualifying matches. NO FIFTY YEARS
Ajer Gaterau	Posted - 2011.06.20 22:39:00 - [69] Originally by: Bloodpetal Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) I'm sure your real prize Sponsors won't be so amused - I wouldn't be, and this whole "it's EVE" thing isn't cutting it. Your viewers think you should be embarrassed about the outcome because they see it as a disgrace to the tournaments integrity. The fact that you didn't have an after fight discussion about it that is memorable, there wasn't really any amused smiling laughing, enjoyable moment. There was no, "Let us get the whole EVE TV Crew on deck and in front of the camera" like you have done every other year to celebrate the outcome is telling. Your stance is pretty clear - and I think you need to take action on it for the integrity of the tournament this year and next. Not seeing what the lack of action is going to have on next year's tournament is clearly going against the wisdom and history of years of prior sports competition in the REAL WORLD - you want to say "EVE IS REAL" then you better deal with real consequences. "EVE" reflects the real world - there is nothing amazing or "meta-game" about the outcome. It was cheap and weak. Everyone feels like this - anyone who is amused has a childish and short-sighted attitude. It's not that people take the tournament "too-seriously" it's that people have an inherent sense of integrity - no matter how close they are to a subject in seriousness. And the Tournament has lost its integrity. I think this is the most elegant way of describing the matter. And beyond that, it just sucks any chance of enjoying it out the window. Would everyone really pay any sort of attention to basketball/baseball/football if games were constantly and so blatantly thrown? Hell, it might have been more tolerable if it wasn't so obvious.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.20 23:15:00 - [70] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Razin The offending alliances provided more EVE content for you guys than this upcoming expansion ever will. You should be clamoring for more prizes and awards for those guys. In exactly the same way that someone beaten to death in a drunken brawl near a local pub provides more "content" in tabloids than a local rock band performance the same evening in the same pub. Does that mean the thugs need a prize, not a time behind bars? Last time I checked we were discussing a computer game with all kinds of nastiness being part of the gameplay. Take a deep breath. ... If you like choice please support this topic in the Assembly Hall. Thanks.
Roosterton Internet SpaceCraft Raiding Fleet	Posted - 2011.06.20 23:23:00 - [71] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Razin The offending alliances provided more EVE content for you guys than this upcoming expansion ever will. You should be clamoring for more prizes and awards for those guys. In exactly the same way that someone beaten to death in a drunken brawl near a local pub provides more "content" in tabloids than a local rock band performance the same evening in the same pub. Does that mean the thugs need a prize, not a time behind bars? Last time I checked we were discussing a computer game with all kinds of nastiness being part of the gameplay. Take a deep breath. inb4 "ALL EVE GREEFERS ARE *****S IRL!!!" -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three. Originally by:** Tarminic OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions	Posted - 2011.06.20 23:42:00 - [72] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) That's why there was no big EVE TV crew round up for the end of the show. That's why there was no extended talks about the end fight. Every other tournament was a lot of good laughs and chatter and pride from the EVE TV group. Instead this year, it was a disappointing end, an unhappy audience, and a lot of Real Sponsors who sponsored real prizes who now have to ask if they want to sponsor an event with a lot of unhappy viewers. Ignoring the consequences of this event is asking for failure. This is Entertainment. EVE is "Real" as you say at CCP - and that means that excuses that because it is "EVE" makes it "alright" is a load of crap. CCP is the tournament manager and they are responsible for the outcome - if you want to ignore the results, you had 30,000 very **ed off viewers - if CCP hasn't learned that **ing off the EVE community is not in their interest, and taking no action on it is suicide for the Tournament. If people are saying this is a "slippery slope" then, I don't have to do anything more than point at real events in real sports where real sports managers had to make a point to STOP stupid nonsense like this because it makes the AUDIENCE unhappy. Noone cares about the ISK, or the money, or the meta-gaming, or the back-dealing they want to be entertained - they want to have fun. It's not that hard to grasp. HYDRA disappointed, they didn't troll or make EVE QQ - they are being trolled, they've tarnished their reputation for being incompetent and selfish. And CCP is now just supporting that and taking their incompetence and shame on for themselves for lacking any action on the matter. EVE isn't impervious and EVE isn't invulnerable - EVE is real. So don't pretend you can sit by and wash your hands of this and expect nothing of it. That's called insane. ____________________________________________________ Bastet :: Captain
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.20 23:46:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP Soundwave Shaddup Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.20 23:56:00 - [74] Edited by: Whitehound on 20/06/2011 23:57:05 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: CCP Soundwave Shaddup A mystery of unknown dimensions has just unfold itself. --
Alpheias Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.06.21 00:33:00 - [75] Originally by: Whitehound Bring back the drama and the need for popcorn! Drama is abundant. But I agree that the demand for popcorn just can't be met. ♫ When your ship gets blown to bits ♫ And you lose your Faction fits \☻/ Don't worry ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ Be Happy \☻/
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.21 02:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: CCP Soundwave Shaddup The first rule of embarrassing CCP outcome is that you do not talk about embarrassing CCP outcome.
Wencher	Posted - 2011.06.21 02:54:00 - [77] I liked how awkward the commentators were in the final.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.21 05:35:00 - [78] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Razin The offending alliances provided more EVE content for you guys than this upcoming expansion ever will. You should be clamoring for more prizes and awards for those guys. In exactly the same way that someone beaten to death in a drunken brawl near a local pub provides more "content" in tabloids than a local rock band performance the same evening in the same pub. Does that mean the thugs need a prize, not a time behind bars? Last time I checked we were discussing a computer game with all kinds of nastiness being part of the gameplay. Take a deep breath. We are talking about a competition here. AT is first of all a competition, community event. It's separated from the usual gameplay by a number of rules that were set by CCP to make sure the fights are more or less fair. If you enjoyed watching this final, good for you. I'm sure most ppl wanted to see a real match here and not a rigged farce.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 06:21:00 - [79] Let it be,CCP don,t seem to care
Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.21 06:24:00 - [80] I figure this thread has run its course. Thanks CCP soundwave for the response; as i said thats what i was looking for in the beginning. ps. so does this count as a threadnaught lol.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 10:32:00 - [81] Originally by: Lei Fai I figure this thread has run its course. Thanks CCP soundwave for the response; as i said thats what i was looking for in the beginning. ps. so does this count as a threadnaught lol. response? you are saying that "will look at it next year" is what you are been looking for? Not enough for me though. i want to know what "Soundwave or any of the people close to the AT-production" feelings are about this f***up . Why? just to know if this was the plan for AT9 ,if it was, good luck with next AT ,if not we understand that you are learned a lesson here
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.21 10:40:00 - [82] Edited by: JC Anderson on 21/06/2011 10:42:08 Originally by: Jos Wijnants Originally by: Lei Fai I figure this thread has run its course. Thanks CCP soundwave for the response; as i said thats what i was looking for in the beginning. ps. so does this count as a threadnaught lol. response? you are saying that "will look at it next year" is what you are been looking for? Not enough for me though. i want to know what "Soundwave or any of the people close to the AT-production" feelings are about this f***up . Why? just to know if this was the plan for AT9 ,if it was, good luck with next AT ,if not we understand that you are learned a lesson here What they did was NOT against AT rules.. Therefore as of right now there isn't much that can be done. If CCP is willing to look at it and prevent it from happening again by changing certain rules before the next AT, then that's the most that they can do in the first place. That last match was annoying, and I didn't agree with what happened either... Was more like a circus act IMHO than an AT finals match. Yet as mentioned above, they did not violate any of the AT pre-established rules. Look at not only some of the previous AT's, but even other matches in this last one for examples of the anything goes structure of the tournament. Alliances have offered money (isk, not rmt) in the past right out in the open in exchange for their opposing team to either leave the field, self destruct, or simply let themselves be killed. Actions like these have always been acceptable in the AT. It may suck, but there is nothing preventing anybody from doing it. At least not until CCP implements related rules and restrictions for future AT's.
Erik CoolBreeze Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 10:47:00 - [83] Don't know much about the AT, did people have to pay to watch it? If not, stop the boohoo pls.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 10:52:00 - [84] Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 21/06/2011 10:42:08 Originally by: Jos Wijnants Originally by: Lei Fai I figure this thread has run its course. Thanks CCP soundwave for the response; as i said thats what i was looking for in the beginning. ps. so does this count as a threadnaught lol. response? you are saying that "will look at it next year" is what you are been looking for? Not enough for me though. i want to know what "Soundwave or any of the people close to the AT-production" feelings are about this f***up . Why? just to know if this was the plan for AT9 ,if it was, good luck with next AT ,if not we understand that you are learned a lesson here What they did was NOT against AT rules.. Therefore as of right now there isn't much that can be done. If CCP is willing to look at it and prevent it from happening again by changing certain rules before the next AT, then that's the most that they can do in the first place. That last match was annoying, and I didn't agree with what happened either... Was more like a circus act IMHO than an AT finals match. Yet as mentioned above, they did not violate any of the AT pre-established rules. Look at not only some of the previous AT's, but even other matches in this last one for examples of the anything goes structure of the tournament. Alliances have offered money (isk, not rmt) in the past right out in the open in exchange for their opposing team to either leave the field, self destruct, or simply let themselves be killed. Actions like these have always been acceptable in the AT. It may suck, but there is nothing preventing anybody from doing it. At least not until CCP implements related rules and restrictions for future AT's. I know that nothing can be done ,nothing can change the results of AT9 But in the past a lot of post were made after the tournaments by CCP about how wonderfull it was. This year the only response of this years tournament is Soundwaves reply. If they are fair (i hope they are ,really) they respond to this years tournament as well even if it is a negative respons. Why don,t they just vent their opinion about it?Sponsors maybe?Or afraid of loosing face?
Agent zink	Posted - 2011.06.21 10:54:00 - [85] The final was a joke, the participants are a joke. In F1 racing, the drivers of the same team sometimes let each other pass and sometimes almost run each other off the road. So yeah it happens in RL too. This does not mean that it is acceptable. So i propose that CCP impounds all their stuff until they have mined 1 bil m^3 of trit and the make a vid of them doing it, oh and no orca's!
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:14:00 - [86] Originally by: Agent zink The final was a joke, the participants are a joke. In F1 racing, the drivers of the same team sometimes let each other pass and sometimes almost run each other off the road. So yeah it happens in RL too. This does not mean that it is acceptable. So i propose that CCP impounds all their stuff until they have mined 1 bil m^3 of trit and the make a vid of them doing it, oh and no orca's! we can,t compare the Tournament with F1 ,but even at a multi billion sports event like F1,when somebody messes up,they at least respond to it
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:35:00 - [87] Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Don't know much about the AT, did people have to pay to watch it? If not, stop the boohoo pls. CCP paid a fortune to show it. It flew a bunch of people to iceland and put them up for 2 weeks. Assigned staff to code the site, and administer the event. That **** don't cost a dollar.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:47:00 - [88] Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Don't know much about the AT, did people have to pay to watch it? If not, stop the boohoo pls. The only reason i do"boohoo" is i always loved the tournaments,until AT9 happened. The only thing i want to know,is there reason to gonna love AT10? Maybe Soundwave can actually give a decent reply or any other who was close to the production of the disappointing AT 9 ,so i and maybe some others (can speak only for myself) ,can rest assure that something is done about this. And why is CCP so quiet about this?
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:52:00 - [89] Originally by: Dr Djago CCP Soundwave FFS, stop dancing around the bushes just told us something will be changed for next year to stop some of the community anger. And remember you too were getting shafted along side with rest of 28,000 players. He's not getting shafted. Neither is CCP. The entire event was a giant ****ing commericial for micro transcations and trying to play damage control on their less popular dev blogs. What happens on grid is at best, a nonfactor to them. For all CCP cares, every single team could have T1 industrials. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:00:00 - [90] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: Dr Djago CCP Soundwave FFS, stop dancing around the bushes just told us something will be changed for next year to stop some of the community anger. And remember you too were getting shafted along side with rest of 28,000 players. He's not getting shafted. Neither is CCP. The entire event was a giant ****ing commericial for micro transcations and trying to play damage control on their less popular dev blogs. What happens on grid is at best, a nonfactor to them. For all CCP cares, every single team could have T1 industrials. so it seems, is it???????????????
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:07:00 - [91] In the UK, one "Group" owns about 15 IT companys. That "Group" Tenders 15 bids for it services... That "Group" often wins.. It's not fair, it happens IRL, CCP isnt to blame. If you want to *****, do it at the corps in question. ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:16:00 - [92] Originally by: DeODokktor In the UK, one "Group" owns about 15 IT companys. That "Group" Tenders 15 bids for it services... That "Group" often wins.. It's not fair, it happens IRL, CCP isnt to blame. If you want to ***, do it at the corps in question. CCP are the hosting party of this event. CCP are the ones advertising the tournament CCP set the rules of this tournament CCP are the ones producing a event like this CCP are the responsible for this tournament CCP are the ones that keep their mouth shut ,after this **up!!
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:38:00 - [93] Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas on 21/06/2011 12:39:04 Originally by: Patient 2428190 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 21/06/2011 12:01:58 Originally by: Dr Djago CCP Soundwave FFS, stop dancing around the bushes just told us something will be changed for next year to stop some of the community anger. And remember you too were getting shafted along side with rest of 28,000 players. He's not getting shafted. Neither is CCP. The entire event was a giant **ing commericial for micro transcations and trying to play damage control on their less popular dev blogs. What happens on grid is at best, a nonfactor to them. For all CCP cares, every single team could have T1 industrials. Originally by:** Doctor Ungabungas CCP paid a fortune to show it. It flew a bunch of people to iceland and put them up for 2 weeks. Assigned staff to code the site, and administer the event. That **** don't cost a dollar. Its easy to spend money when you know its a giant commercial for your new game and your new micro transaction store. Its not about the fights by a long shot. If it was, why was only 50% of the tournament covered? Of course it is about the fights. If it wasn't, why has the whole debacle been buried? They went from heaps of advertising momentum to complete radio silence. Even now, the only nod to the final is a short ISD article. Like I said earlier, they didn't spend all that money to advertise eve to people who already play eve and now they've got nothing that they can use. I mean, they could try to splice some exciting footage out of the final battle but we'd all call them on out on it before it even made it to the news sites. Whether you like it or not, our illustrious AT IX finalists did some real damage to CCP here and whether you think it's a terrible shame or just terribly funny, it's something worth acknowledging.
flapie 2 Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:48:00 - [94] I for one still think that CCP should consider taking action, seeing as so manny people replyed to all the AT screwup topics. Would be verry bad for the next AT iff they dint, specially after the talk that has been going on for a couple of years now.
Mr R4nd0m	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:51:00 - [95] Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 21/06/2011 12:51:57 Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) You wont know for sure for another year?!! - are you taking the pi$$? Its was a joke..and seems you guys are becoming one too...! They should of been stripped of all prizes - no ifs no butts
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:02:00 - [96] Originally by: Mr R4nd0m Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 21/06/2011 12:51:57 Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) You wont know for sure for another year?!! - are you taking the pi$$? Its was a joke..and seems you guys are becoming one too...! They should of been stripped of all prizes - no ifs no butts nah they can,t do that!!! We may not like it,but Hydra and their Outbreak-sheep did it all within the tournaments rules and f**ked EVE and CCP and a large part of the community with winning the tournament the way they did. So AT9 will go in EVEhistorie as the big Tournamentgate ------> AT9gate the worst thing about this is the silence from CCP
Dr Lebroi	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:05:00 - [97] CCP need to clean house on this or it's unlikely the tournament will have a future. Eve is already rife with meta gaming and exploitations that exist and take place outside the sandbox. It ruins immersion and spoils the game. One thing these people will realise is that winning without playing fair or by bending the rules delivers a very hollow victory. All games are enjoyed most when you perform at your best within the pre-defined parameters. In fact, rules were invented to make games MORE enjoyable and more satisfying as they provide challenges to overcome and ways to test your own abilites. By navigating around the rules you only serve to remove the pleasure from the experience and cheapen your achievments. The tornament rocks and the coverage is class but this is a very low point for it I'm afraid.
Voith	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:08:00 - [98] Originally by: Bloodpetal Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) I'm sure your real prize Sponsors won't be so amused - I wouldn't be, and this whole "it's EVE" thing isn't cutting it. Your viewers think you should be embarrassed about the outcome because they see it as a disgrace to the tournaments integrity. The fact that you didn't have an after fight discussion about it that is memorable, there wasn't really any amused smiling laughing, enjoyable moment. There was no, "Let us get the whole EVE TV Crew on deck and in front of the camera" like you have done every other year to celebrate the outcome is telling. Your stance is pretty clear - and I think you need to take action on it for the integrity of the tournament this year and next. Not seeing what the lack of action is going to have on next year's tournament is clearly going against the wisdom and history of years of prior sports competition in the REAL WORLD - you want to say "EVE IS REAL" then you better deal with real consequences. "EVE" reflects the real world - there is nothing amazing or "meta-game" about the outcome. It was cheap and weak. Everyone feels like this - anyone who is amused has a childish and short-sighted attitude. It's not that people take the tournament "too-seriously" it's that people have an inherent sense of integrity - no matter how close they are to a subject in seriousness. And the Tournament has lost its integrity. You're pretty clueless. The tournament has always been about metagaming. Slipping the opposing FC a few bill to call bad primaries is beyond normal. Paying for spies to tell you what setup they are bringing is standard.
Sun Ra Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [99] Before the final CCP: Metagaming is awesome, this could only happen in eve online folks!! After final CCP: AHUH AHUH AHUH AHUH
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:22:00 - [100] Edited by: Jos Wijnants on 21/06/2011 13:22:21 Originally by: Voith Originally by: Bloodpetal Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: Acac Sunflyier I don't think CCP's stances is ever going to change. it was cool but it doesn't really need to have an official stance. I think you're right, we don't at all need to have a stance and an opinion about matches. We do on the other hand evaluate the ruleset after each tournament, based on those matches. It would be fair to say that up until now, we've been able to have a relatively open ruleset and still provide good entertainment to the viewers. Most things that are left open like this, are left open until someone inevitably crosses the line and you have to revisit that openness. Will we need to revisit the rules based on what happened this year? Probably, but we won't know for sure for another year :) I'm sure your real prize Sponsors won't be so amused - I wouldn't be, and this whole "it's EVE" thing isn't cutting it. Your viewers think you should be embarrassed about the outcome because they see it as a disgrace to the tournaments integrity. The fact that you didn't have an after fight discussion about it that is memorable, there wasn't really any amused smiling laughing, enjoyable moment. There was no, "Let us get the whole EVE TV Crew on deck and in front of the camera" like you have done every other year to celebrate the outcome is telling. Your stance is pretty clear - and I think you need to take action on it for the integrity of the tournament this year and next. Not seeing what the lack of action is going to have on next year's tournament is clearly going against the wisdom and history of years of prior sports competition in the REAL WORLD - you want to say "EVE IS REAL" then you better deal with real consequences. "EVE" reflects the real world - there is nothing amazing or "meta-game" about the outcome. It was cheap and weak. Everyone feels like this - anyone who is amused has a childish and short-sighted attitude. It's not that people take the tournament "too-seriously" it's that people have an inherent sense of integrity - no matter how close they are to a subject in seriousness. And the Tournament has lost its integrity. You're pretty clueless. The tournament has always been about metagaming. Slipping the opposing FC a few bill to call bad primaries is beyond normal. Paying for spies to tell you what setup they are bringing is standard. spying to know what your opponents strengths are is not what i have a problem with. Hydra winning the game to let their Outbreakpets loose the game ,even when it was clear they won the match already by decimating 70% of Hydras so called super Vindicator team,there is the problem CCP could not or did not do nothing against itand by by keeping their mouth shut they embrace these kind of actions and therefore making a possible AT 10 not trustworthy. i simply can,t believe that CCP is happy about this,but keeping silence make me believe they are.
Dr Lebroi	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:37:00 - [101] Originally by: Sun Ra Before the final CCP: Metagaming is awesome, this could only happen in eve online folks!! After final CCP: Fair point, CCP are certainly partially responsible as they encourage players to 'explore all options' but they now need to draw a line under this and put some rules in place for the next one. The players also need to take responsibility for delivering a good tournament played fairly and not just an excercise in out of the box thinking of how you can circumnavigate the rules. The problem with meta-gaming is it has no logical end point and once you start doing it, you stop playing Eve the game like the bulk of the playerbase play it and you start playing some other type of experience which is more about the exploitation of flaws in order to get stuff. Strictly speaking, the interruption of someones internet access during a match or getting someone drunk before a match would count as meta gaming and could be considered as valid tactics if the aim was just to win at all costs. I think the tournament should be about more than just winning though. It should be a show piece for the game, a celebration for the playerbase and the chance to watch some of the game's top PVP'er in action. If CCP can get back to that, then I think all will be OK.
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:40:00 - [102] Well, you could always have punishment for blatant wrongdoings. Getting your main characters biomassed would probably get rid of more obvious attempts.
Erik CoolBreeze Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:41:00 - [103] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Don't know much about the AT, did people have to pay to watch it? If not, stop the boohoo pls. CCP paid a fortune to show it. It flew a bunch of people to iceland and put them up for 2 weeks. Assigned staff to code the site, and administer the event. That **** don't cost a dollar. Not you though, right?
Gillaboo	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:45:00 - [104] To describe the Final in AT9 as being "theatrical", is just about right -- because it was. Whether you like it or not, this is EVE... and players are supposed to be devious and sneaky. And he what be more sneaky and devious than you, wins. End of debate.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:54:00 - [105] Originally by: Gillaboo To describe the Final in AT9 as being "theatrical", is just about right -- because it was. Whether you like it or not, this is EVE... and players are supposed to be devious and sneaky. And he what be more sneaky and devious than you, wins. End of debate. Tournament is not EVE ,PERIOD!!!...............
Erik CoolBreeze Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:59:00 - [106] Edited by: Erik CoolBreeze on 21/06/2011 13:59:51 Originally by: Jos Wijnants Originally by: Gillaboo To describe the Final in AT9 as being "theatrical", is just about right -- because it was. Whether you like it or not, this is EVE... and players are supposed to be devious and sneaky. And he what be more sneaky and devious than you, wins. End of debate. Tournament is not EVE ,PERIOD!!!............... Hosted by CCP - CHECK Need eve sub - CHECK Need eve client - CHECK Myea, not eve at all.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:06:00 - [107] Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Edited by: Erik CoolBreeze on 21/06/2011 13:59:51 Originally by: Jos Wijnants Originally by: Gillaboo To describe the Final in AT9 as being "theatrical", is just about right -- because it was. Whether you like it or not, this is EVE... and players are supposed to be devious and sneaky. And he what be more sneaky and devious than you, wins. End of debate. Tournament is not EVE ,PERIOD!!!............... Hosted by CCP - CHECK Need eve sub - CHECK Need eve client - CHECK Myea, not eve at all. yeah you are right ,replied in the wrong way. At least i confess when i do something wrong. (hint,CCP?) Of course its EVE ,but not in your neighborhood 0.0 lowsec or even highsec spaces we all know But an Event apart from daily EVE therefore differs from the EVE we all know And therefore liked by many,until AT9gate
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:32:00 - [108] Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Don't know much about the AT, did people have to pay to watch it? If not, stop the boohoo pls. CCP paid a fortune to show it. It flew a bunch of people to iceland and put them up for 2 weeks. Assigned staff to code the site, and administer the event. That **** don't cost a dollar. Not you though, right? no not him,but he wanted to see it. i mean a real tournament
Mouthy Misses	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:43:00 - [109] All ccp had to do was punish the teams responcible, dont payout the prizes, go to the teams in 3rd and 4th give them the prizes it wont happen again after that, simple
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:47:00 - [110] Originally by: Mouthy Misses All ccp had to do was punish the teams responcible, dont payout the prizes, go to the teams in 3rd and 4th give them the prizes it wont happen again after that, simple No they can,t ,because to do so you have to have rules to back a decision like that up. but it doesn,t matter much for AT9 now ,because AT9 is over. What matters is: CCP,s silence and AT 10
Messy Beaver	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:51:00 - [111] lol at all the people talking about the damage to the public image of CCP in all of this. There were some of us who were asking for coverage of the 5v5 matches. CCP refused stating they couldn't do it due to quality reasons. They also refused to let the community do it because the "low quality" wouldn't be the shiny advert they wanted for prospective new customers. By all means use the tournament as a marketing tool rather than a community event. Just don't start whining when you don't get the desired outcome you were depending on.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:58:00 - [112] Originally by: Messy Beaver By all means use the tournament as a marketing tool rather than a community event. Just don't start whining when you don't get the desired outcome you were depending on. They did tried it to use it as a marketing tool,considering the sponsors they used. But if you want AT9 as marketing tool ,well i would not
Messy Beaver	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:00:00 - [113] Originally by: Jos Wijnants Originally by: Messy Beaver By all means use the tournament as a marketing tool rather than a community event. Just don't start whining when you don't get the desired outcome you were depending on. They did tried it to use it as a marketing tool,considering the sponsors they used. But if you want AT9 as marketing tool ,well i would not Translation in lost
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:13:00 - [114] well i stop with this ranting from now on. CCP will not ever share their thoughts about AT9gate They don,t want to loose face more then they already have too bad i don,t care if they did AT9gate is over and soon to be forgotten. but i hoped to see some replies from CCP. In my eyes they let this years tournament down and maybe next years AT10 CCP have shown some weakness here
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.22 00:55:00 - [115] Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Don't know much about the AT, did people have to pay to watch it? If not, stop the boohoo pls. CCP paid a fortune to show it. It flew a bunch of people to iceland and put them up for 2 weeks. Assigned staff to code the site, and administer the event. That **** don't cost a dollar. Not you though, right? No. If it had been me spending $100 grand to hold an internet spaceship tournament that ended like this, I'd probably be pretty mad. I'm not pretty mad, I just want to get CCP on the record because schadenfreude is the best. I guess they have more on their mind right now though, like the cost of monocles.
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.23 15:56:00 - [116] couldn,t help help it so much about incarna going on so i bump this one
Ospie The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:02:00 - [117] That blue bar's going to catch everyone before they read the actual title (which I did before I clicked fyi)
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:03:00 - [118] Yup, let's not forget the week of CCP horrible PR. ____________________________________________________ Bastet :: Captain
I Love Boobies Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:05:00 - [119] Originally by: Jos Wijnants couldn,t help help it so much about incarna going on so i bump this one CCP Alt? Trying to get people's attention drawn away from Incarna by bumping this one?
Jos Wijnants Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:08:00 - [120] Originally by: I Love Boobies Originally by: Jos Wijnants couldn,t help help it so much about incarna going on so i bump this one CCP Alt? Trying to get people's attention drawn away from Incarna by bumping this one? Really you can trust me look in my eyes and you know i am honest

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