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On June 24th 2010, CCP Shadow Said...

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Khamelean	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:27:00 - [1] "CCP will never do micro transaction" I've seen this quoted in a number of threads today, but i can't find any links or references to where it was said, all i was able to find was a statement by CCP Shadow on 2010.10.08 that read: Quote: In fact, to this date, I have not been involved in discussions/decision-making processes about whether or not CCP will ever use microtransactions in EVE Online, how such a system would be implemented, and so on Linkage Can someone show me the link to back up this claim that CCP lied to us???
eudi	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:39:00 - [2] http://hosted.corelicorp.net/micro.jpg
Khamelean	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:39:00 - [3] Edited by: Khamelean on 24/06/2011 14:40:48 "We have no plans." does not equal "We will not."
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:41:00 - [4] 'We do not have plans too' is not the same as 'We will never'. You weren't lied too at all. _______________________________________
Mamayev Kurgan	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:42:00 - [5] Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:43:59 Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:43:01 umm, CCP alt? OP provided the link. You know, it baffles me how some people will defend CCP when it is clear as day. "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me.
Issona	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:42:00 - [6] Originally by: White Tree 'We do not have plans too' is not the same as 'We will never'. You weren't lied too at all. QFE
Maddi5on	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:42:00 - [7] Originally by: eudi http://hosted.corelicorp.net/micro.jpg Lolz Incarna: how to obtain your free mono...
Ospie The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:42:00 - [8] A quick search through eve-search and voila http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1341909/page/all
eudi	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Khamelean Edited by: Khamelean on 24/06/2011 14:40:48 "We have no plans." does not equal "We will not." Originally by: CCP Shadow Our business model isn't changing, you all have nothing to be concerned about.
Khamelean	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:43:59 Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:43:01 umm, CCP alt? OP provided the link. You know, it baffles me how some people will defend CCP when it is clear as day. "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me. "is not changing" does not equal "will not change".
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:46:00 - [11] Link. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Mamayev Kurgan	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:47:00 - [12] While you may be technically correct that CCP Shadow didn't lie to us. CCP did .. The most generous I can give you is that they promising something to us .. then changed their mind and didn't tell us about it till they were caught. While that may not be a "untrue statement" .. i.e. a lie. It is most certainly BAD FAITH .. try that with your spouse and see how it goes. "I promised by marrying you not to frack any other women .. but then I changed my mind 2 months into the marriage .. I didn't lie because I never said anything after I changed my mind." CCP alts are getting pathetic.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me. Sounds like one year was enough to change their minds about not wanting to change their model. Or sounds like Shadow was unaware of any plans to change the model. Or any other number of things that amount to something unpleasant, but are still not lies. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:48:00 - [14] If anyone feels like digging, they could always find CCP Wranglers post from about two years ago where he outright promised us that CCP was never going down the microtransaction tree. I remember it mostly because I was trolling the thread it came up in. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:49:00 - [15] Originally by: eudi Originally by: Khamelean Edited by: Khamelean on 24/06/2011 14:40:48 "We have no plans." does not equal "We will not." Originally by: CCP Shadow Our business model isn't changing, you all have nothing to be concerned about. You can't argue with apologists. Fanboyizm is a disease of the mind. ... If you like choice please support this topic in the Assembly Hall. Thanks.
Jedi GrandMaster	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:49:00 - [16] Originally by: White Tree 'We do not have plans too' is not the same as 'We will never'. You weren't lied too at all. Sorry ur a CSM? or CCP fanboi,Im confused.
Kraxalious	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:49:00 - [17] A clever choice of words. All he has to do is say "I didn't know it was going on" or "we didn't have any plans then but the plan changed" and hes off the hook. Hell all your quote says is that he wasn't involved in a decision making process.. not that one wasn't being decided by other people.
Cataca	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:50:00 - [18] Originally by: White Tree 'We do not have plans too' is not the same as 'We will never'. You weren't lied too at all. For an elected representative of the community, you do a remarkably bad job at it.
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [19] Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:51:04 Originally by: Razin Originally by: eudi Originally by: Khamelean Edited by: Khamelean on 24/06/2011 14:40:48 "We have no plans." does not equal "We will not." Originally by: CCP Shadow Our business model isn't changing, you all have nothing to be concerned about. You can't argue with apologists. Fanboyizm is a disease of the mind. Pointing out the factual accurateness of a statement and its structure is not fanboyism get out. Get out. Originally by: Cataca Originally by: White Tree 'We do not have plans too' is not the same as 'We will never'. You weren't lied too at all. For an elected representative of the community, you do a remarkably bad job at it. What are you even talking about lmao. _______________________________________
Tipsy Gallente X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [20] From the same post you linked: Originally by: CCP Shadow I work in Community, so I don't call the shots about how CCP operates or how the company adapts to changes in the industry, and thus I make no promises about what the future holds. Originally by: CCP Shadow Were CCP to finalize some plans to implement microtransactions in EVE Online, there would be a dev blog or official announcement. As it stands though, I'm unaware of any such plans. This seems pretty clear and CCP has followed this. They announced there would be MT on vanity items. Nothing in the leaked internal newsletter revealed a finalised plan on MT for anything else in EVE, only internal debate.
Tejal Charu	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [21] He believes CCP! laughingwomen.gif.tiff.exe.jpg.com
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me. Sounds like one year was enough to change their minds about not wanting to change their model. Or sounds like Shadow was unaware of any plans to change the model. Or any other number of things that amount to something unpleasant, but are still not lies. Technically it is lie. It doesnt matter if you change youre mind if you say you will/wont do one thing then try to do it you lied. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Khamelean "CCP will never do micro transaction" .../... ...And politicians always do what they promised ofc You always do what you say ? never changed your mind ? You spend too much time in internet spaceship games, Welcome back to the real world !
Mamayev Kurgan	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:53:16 Double post .. Forum acting buggy with the mob
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:51:00 - [25] It's not a lie, but it's not honest either. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
Takseen	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan CCP alts are getting pathetic. As are claims by angry Eve players that anyone defending CCP or even pointing out basic facts must be a CCP alt.
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Tobiaz It's not a lie, but it's not honest either. Agreed, it's not 'honest' but it isn't necessarily a 'lie'. Things change, CCP isn't a static company nor are its philosophies. _______________________________________
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan .../... CCP alts are getting pathetic. Seing conspiracy everywhere is pathetic, it's called paranoia
Ophie	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:53:00 - [29] To be fair to CCP, he's still correct, as there's nothing micro about the transactions they've implemented.
Wile EC	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:55:00 - [30] Stop CRYING already. It is optional. Oh right, you are all secretly ****ed because you can't afford the eye piece. Never thought I would see such cry babies in EVE, some of you need to go play WoW.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:55:00 - [31] Edited by: El''Niaga on 24/06/2011 14:55:28 White Tree your trying to hard. Honestly there's no way when he made the statement then just 12 months ago that what was just pushed live wasn't on at least someones napkin....
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:55:00 - [32] Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:55:38 'I am being corrected' does not equal 'I am being preached too by a CCP apologist' I will literally not allow you to do this. I will drag you, all of you kicking and screaming into the limelight of intellectual validity so help me god. I will turn this bus around and we'll all go home and none of you will have Icecream at all. _______________________________________
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:56:00 - [33] Edited by: Akita T on 24/06/2011 14:59:03 Originally by: Xavier Novae Congratulations for figuring out that those are not the EXACT same words used. They still have the same effect however, of being dishonest. Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me. Sounds like one year was enough to change their minds about not wanting to change their model. Or sounds like Shadow was unaware of any plans to change the model. Or any other number of things that amount to something unpleasant, but are still not lies. Technically it is lie. It doesnt matter if you change youre mind if you say you will/wont do one thing then try to do it you lied. So if I tell you "I'll come to see our kid perform at the school play" and I fully intend to do that, but something comes up and I can't make it, does that make me liar ? Am I being dishonest ? EVEN if the events that caused me to be unable to come already happened, even if I could have theoretically found out about them if I dug deep enough before I said that, that still doesn't make me a liar, at worst it makes me uninformed. I might be unintentionally breaking a promise, but there would be good reasons for that, and you might call it "technically" a lie, but there would have been no intent to lie at the time, and I couldn't have been aware I would become "technically a liar". Sure, I could have said "I really do intend to come to see our kid perform at the school play, and I will, unless something unexpected happens that will make me unable to do do", but then again, who the hell says anything like that ? It's self-understood. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Cage Shadownsun Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:57:00 - [34] Man, you guys just don't get game development at all, do you. "We currently have no plans" does not mean "we will never change this ever." I'm also upset about the MT thing and am anxiously awaiting a response to MT for an advantage... but even I know developers' design philosophies change from time to time.
Xavier Novae	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Khamelean Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:43:59 Edited by: Mamayev Kurgan on 24/06/2011 14:43:01 umm, CCP alt? OP provided the link. You know, it baffles me how some people will defend CCP when it is clear as day. "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me. "is not changing" does not equal "will not change". Congratulations for figuring out that those are not the EXACT same words used. They still have the same effect however, of being dishonest.
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:58:00 - [36] Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:58:54 Maybe at the time they didn't have any plans to do anything like this. In fact, if I remember correctly, this is actually a relatively new idea. I agree that its a shift in policy and its absolutely being perceived as a negative shift, that I'm not arguing. In fact I agree with the community that the execution of this has been an absolute disaster. I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. _______________________________________
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:00:00 - [37] Originally by: White Tree I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. Not much else left to discuss _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
M Blanc	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [38] Originally by: White Tree Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:58:54 Maybe at the time they didn't have any plans to do anything like this. In fact, if I remember correctly, this is actually a relatively new idea. I agree that its a shift in policy and its absolutely being perceived as a negative shift, that I'm not arguing. In fact I agree with the community that the execution of this has been an absolute disaster. I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. You've said how it's being perceived, and you've said that it's been a disaster in terms of execution, but I note that you haven't actually expressed your own opinion on the system itself, or where CCP are planning to take it. Are you in favour of the current microtransactions? Are you in favour of microtransactions of the kind discussed in the leaked document - for convenience and/or in-game power?
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [39] Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 15:04:07 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan "Our Business Model is not changing .. you have nothing to be worried about ..." Sounds like a lie to me. Sounds like one year was enough to change their minds about not wanting to change their model. Or sounds like Shadow was unaware of any plans to change the model. Or any other number of things that amount to something unpleasant, but are still not lies. Technically it is lie. It doesnt matter if you change youre mind if you say you will/wont do one thing then try to do it you lied. So if I tell you "I'll come to see our kid perform at the school play" and I fully intend to do that, but something comes up and I can't make it, does that make me liar ? I might be unintentionally breaking a promise, but there would be good reasons for that, and you might call it "technically" a lie, but there would have been no intent to lie at the time, and I couldn't have been aware I would become "technically a liar". Sure, I could have said "I really do intend to come to see our kid perform at the school play, and I will, unless something unexpected happens that will make me unable to do do", but then again, who the hell says anything like that ? It's self-understood. It would be debatable if some one lied when they broke a promise because of a superceding problem. It might be technically a lie but no one including me would hold you accountable. That is NOT what happened here. This was for self serving monetary reasons. That is lying by any definition. If I promise to paint your house blue then but I later decide to paint it yellow because it saves me money - I lied. It doesnt matter if I "changed my mind" its still a lie. Wherever you went - Here you are.
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:04:00 - [40] Originally by: M Blanc Originally by: White Tree Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:58:54 Maybe at the time they didn't have any plans to do anything like this. In fact, if I remember correctly, this is actually a relatively new idea. I agree that its a shift in policy and its absolutely being perceived as a negative shift, that I'm not arguing. In fact I agree with the community that the execution of this has been an absolute disaster. I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. You've said how it's being perceived, and you've said that it's been a disaster in terms of execution, but I note that you haven't actually expressed your own opinion on the system itself, or where CCP are planning to take it. Are you in favour of the current microtransactions? Are you in favour of microtransactions of the kind discussed in the leaked document - for convenience and/or in-game power? Good question. I've always thought very reasonably priced Micro-transactions that didn't affect my game or anyone elses game were fine. The price is definitely off, I agree 100% with that. _______________________________________
Mamayev Kurgan	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: White Tree I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. Not much else left to discuss I'll agree with you there .. you're willingness to split hairs in defense of the indefensible is beyond discussion.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:04:00 - [42] Originally by: White Tree Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:51:04 Originally by: Razin Originally by: eudi Originally by: Khamelean Edited by: Khamelean on 24/06/2011 14:40:48 "We have no plans." does not equal "We will not." Originally by: CCP Shadow Our business model isn't changing, you all have nothing to be concerned about. You can't argue with apologists. Fanboyizm is a disease of the mind. Pointing out the factual accurateness of a statement and its structure is not fanboyism get out. Get out. Ignoring and defending obvious doubletalk and misdirection definitely is. Such blatant servitude is for weak tools or payed flunkies. ... If you like choice please support this topic in the Assembly Hall. Thanks.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan Originally by: Akita T Originally by: White Tree I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. Not much else left to discuss I'll agree with you there .. you're willingness to split hairs in defense of the indefensible is beyond discussion. This pretty much. The clearly lied. And now some people are trying to redefine the word "lie" so it doesnt include breaking a promise for selfish reasons. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Khamelean	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan While you may be technically correct that CCP Shadow didn't lie to us. CCP did .. The most generous I can give you is that they promising something to us .. then changed their mind and didn't tell us about it till they were caught. While that may not be a "untrue statement" .. i.e. a lie. It is most certainly BAD FAITH .. try that with your spouse and see how it goes. "I promised by marrying you not to frack any other women .. but then I changed my mind 2 months into the marriage .. I didn't lie because I never said anything after I changed my mind." CCP alts are getting pathetic. Didn't tell us? Firstly there was a dev blog released over a month ago about aurum. A quick look back through CSM minutes and i found a reference from december of Hilmar saying that diversifying into micro transactions will be an important step for eve. It's hardly been a secret.
Faith Clothos	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:06:00 - [45] Khamelean is a CCP alt.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:09:00 - [46] http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815 *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:10:00 - [47] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: White Tree I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. Not much else left to discuss Yes, you guys are definitely discussing semantics, no argument there. ... If you like choice please support this topic in the Assembly Hall. Thanks.
M Blanc	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:10:00 - [48] Originally by: White Tree Originally by: M Blanc Originally by: White Tree Edited by: White Tree on 24/06/2011 14:58:54 Maybe at the time they didn't have any plans to do anything like this. In fact, if I remember correctly, this is actually a relatively new idea. I agree that its a shift in policy and its absolutely being perceived as a negative shift, that I'm not arguing. In fact I agree with the community that the execution of this has been an absolute disaster. I guess at the end of the day we're discussing semantics. You've said how it's being perceived, and you've said that it's been a disaster in terms of execution, but I note that you haven't actually expressed your own opinion on the system itself, or where CCP are planning to take it. Are you in favour of the current microtransactions? Are you in favour of microtransactions of the kind discussed in the leaked document - for convenience and/or in-game power? Good question. I've always thought very reasonably priced Micro-transactions that didn't affect my game or anyone elses game were fine. The price is definitely off, I agree 100% with that. With all due respect, that's only a partial answer at best - what kind of microtransactions do you have in mind when you say "micro-transactions that didn't affect my game or anyone else's game"? Do you consider microtransactions of the kind discussed in the leaked issue of 'Fearless' for things such as faction standings or unique ships and ammo to be game-affecting?
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:14:00 - [49] maybe Mr CSM should read before he opens his mouth: Itæs clear that itæs the will of the community to keep virtual goods sales outside the spectrum of what we classify as the "merit economy". That refers to skills gained over time or items that have a gameplay impact. So after discussions, designs, brainstorming and all sorts of processes weæve come up with a strategy that weæve already polished with the help of the CSM and would now want to present to the larger community. Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and thereæs no design has been done around this, weære just talking strategy now) that anything that doesnæt affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items weære thinking about. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815 How does faction standing NOT affect game play? How does AUR generated battleships NOT affect game play? ok I'm done ... sadly my sub will expire before I Get a chance to NOT vote for you. AG *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Khamelean	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815 Looks like a pretty conclusive piece on CCP's stance towards micro-transactions. One that has not been breached in any way so far. Oh look, posted in november of last year. Looks like we had lots of notice of this coming.
Salomei	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:26:00 - [51] Just make sure CCP's next statement on the matter isn't so ambiguous. Ask for "we will never" instead of "we aren't at the moment".
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:28:00 - [52] Originally by: Khamelean Originally by: Apollo Gabriel http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815 Looks like a pretty conclusive piece on CCP's stance towards micro-transactions. One that has not been breached in any way so far. Oh look, posted in november of last year. Looks like we had lots of notice of this coming. troll did you READ their pdf entitled greed is good, in which they want to add merit based items for non merit based activities? *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
White Tree	Posted - 2011.06.24 15:30:00 - [53] Originally by: M Blanc Do you consider microtransactions of the kind discussed in the leaked issue of 'Fearless' for things such as faction standings or unique ships and ammo to be game-affecting? Yes, and I would object to them entirely as would the rest of the CSM. _______________________________________

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