Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

---

Originally by: Dorian Wylde

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Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

Don't ever, EVER, make statements like that. You have no idea what the majority wants, you only know what you want. You do not speak for me, or anyone else. Trying to act like you do just undermines any legitimate argument you might try to make.

---

I believe I have a pretty good idea what the majority wants actually. But I do not claim to speak for you or everyone*. Fact is the majority do not want space barbie. Canvas enough of the alliance leaderships in eve and they can tell you the same based on interaction with their own members. But that isn't the point, no need to make a personal attack out of it.

Originally by: Mater Dolorosa

---

When 90% of the income generated by Eve is used for other things than Eve what can you expect ?

---

Originally by: Makalu Zarya

---

This is actually one of those rare times when me and Bliss can agree on something.

nice post mate

*bump*

---

Quote:

---

CCP Hammer
Posted - 2011.05.12 16:07:00 - [32]


Thre priorities after Incarna?
>> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be launching DUST 514, launching World of Darkness and continuing to improve on EVE.

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

Originally by: Makalu Zarya

---

This is actually one of those rare times when me and Bliss can agree on something.

nice post mate

*bump*

---

Originally by: Jason1138

---

i saw a CCP employee say on another thread a couple months ago that the next T3's would probably not be released until 2014, so i pretty much agree with you

when you look at the last 3 releases, they've been more focused on removing things and nerfing things than they have introducing anything. The next 2 or 3 seem to be basically walking in stations type stuff, to hear the talk. I would expect a continuing smoke and mirrors performance where CCP shifts things around (like this scanning stuff, or removing social skills) to make it seem as if the game is being updated in major ways, when in reality most of the man hours are going into things that no one wants or cares about

that's why I unsubbed before this "expansion", because its clear we're not going to get any significant content for years, and why do you want to pay maintainence on a game in the hope that 2 years from now it will be good?

I personally don't even mind the microtransactions, it was the total lack of content over the last year (other than incursions), combined with the promise of continuing no content, combined with the outright rudeness and disrespect of the CCP employees that drove me away

---

Originally by: Tarinara

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

I believe they said we're 'Golden Geese'. And we should all quit complaining and start digging deep in those pockets...

---

Originally by: Sir Hillary

---

I'm constantly baffled at people claiming Incarna had no gameplay content. What it had, and what the main focus of it was in terms of gameplay, was a total overhall of the new player experience. If you go start a new character and play through all of the tutorial stuff again, you'll find it has recieved significant work. Aside from a few tweaks, this expansion was not ever intended to introduce anything new gameplay wise for veteran players, it was supposed to help with the problem of people quitting in confusion/frustration after a few days and get more trials converted into paid accounts. This is not a bad thing. New players are good.

(note I'm only talking about gameplay here, not AUR, Minmatar closets, or CCP hitting the PR self destruct button)

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

... Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.
...

---

Originally by: Sir Hillary

---

I'm constantly baffled at people claiming Incarna had no gameplay content. What it had, and what the main focus of it was in terms of gameplay, was a total overhall of the new player experience. If you go start a new character and play through all of the tutorial stuff again, you'll find it has recieved significant work. Aside from a few tweaks, this expansion was not ever intended to introduce anything new gameplay wise for veteran players, it was supposed to help with the problem of people quitting in confusion/frustration after a few days and get more trials converted into paid accounts. This is not a bad thing. New players are good.

(note I'm only talking about gameplay here, not AUR, Minmatar closets, or CCP hitting the PR self destruct button)

---

Quote:

---

"Deliver value to your customers early and often! The benefits of agileFs incremental delivery approach are very quantifiable." (http://agile.scumniotales.com/agile-roi/)

it would be interesting to have a look at the factors that influence the Return on Investment (ROI) for Incarna. The ROI would be: Business value (or benefits) minus development effort. The tangible benefits of Incarna would probably be "net increase in subscribers" (new subcribers minus cancelled subs) and <insert potential benefits from Product Owner here>
In addition to the tangible benefits, CCP has probably added a long list of intangible benefits like <insert mumbo-jumbo from Sales & Marketing here>

It is standard project management procedures to review your business case (e.g. the ROI) after each phase (read: Sprint?) of the project, to make sure that you are on track and inform key stakeholders if it's going south.

TL;DR: Customer reactions to CCP Zulu's Dev Blog means that the ROI of Incarna/Dust is probably being looked at again and the more doubt there is about the benefits, the more the business case is crumbling.

<removed wiki text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_(development)

"Deliver value to your customers early and often!" - fix my freakin' rockets... with sugar and honey

Note: i have simplified ROI on purpose (KISS)

---

Originally by: Gashon

---

*bump*

really hoping for a reply from CCP on this....

---

Originally by: Mater Dolorosa

---

When 90% of the income generated by Eve is used for other things than Eve what can you expect ?

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

---

Originally by: stoicfaux

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

---

Go here and sign/give a thumbs up to the Assembly Hall petition for our CSM to get a dev roadmap for Eve.

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna ...

---

Originally by: Alara IonStorm

---

New Content, they haven't even balanced the ships we have or finished the old content.

They have just begun doing nothing inportant in stations and everything else just takes a back seat.

Look at the last expansion, Sleepers in Highsec and a poorly Balanced Supercap.

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

Its not a matter of old or new content. They have an extremely small number of devs assigned to anything dealing with in space eve.

---

Originally by: Alara IonStorm

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

Its not a matter of old or new content. They have an extremely small number of devs assigned to anything dealing with in space eve.

---

And that saddens me. They are so busy with parts of the game that don't matter near as much....

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content

---

FINALLY SOME TRUTH!!

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

Originally by: dicen3

---

CPP won't exist by 2013.

---

Originally by: Telvani

---

Apocyrpha was the last expansion. From now on we will have nothing (unless you buy dust/WoD)

---

Originally by: Sk4r

---

so can we get an answer on the topic CCP ?

i Love EvE but i joined EvE cause of Flying Space ships, not for Walking in stations and/or getting a Shooter if i want to play a Shooter ill join Counterstrike nothing to pay, nothing to worrie about.

---

Originally by: Sir Hillary

---

I'm constantly baffled at people claiming Incarna had no gameplay content. What it had, and what the main focus of it was in terms of gameplay, was a total overhall of the new player experience. If you go start a new character and play through all of the tutorial stuff again, you'll find it has recieved significant work. Aside from a few tweaks, this expansion was not ever intended to introduce anything new gameplay wise for veteran players, it was supposed to help with the problem of people quitting in confusion/frustration after a few days and get more trials converted into paid accounts. This is not a bad thing. New players are good.

(note I'm only talking about gameplay here, not AUR, Minmatar closets, or CCP hitting the PR self destruct button)

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Sir Hillary

---

I'm constantly baffled at people claiming Incarna had no gameplay content. What it had, and what the main focus of it was in terms of gameplay, was a total overhall of the new player experience. If you go start a new character and play through all of the tutorial stuff again, you'll find it has recieved significant work. Aside from a few tweaks, this expansion was not ever intended to introduce anything new gameplay wise for veteran players, it was supposed to help with the problem of people quitting in confusion/frustration after a few days and get more trials converted into paid accounts. This is not a bad thing. New players are good.

(note I'm only talking about gameplay here, not AUR, Minmatar closets, or CCP hitting the PR self destruct button)

---

Great. So where's the flood of new players then?

---

Originally by: Enik3

---

You'll get nothing and you'll like it!

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

Originally by: 8agpuss

---

EvE is a finished product... onto new games now!

Just need to give EvE a few shiney extras to reward all the Vets! Consumerism enhances the gaming experience as we all know!

---

Originally by: Haulin Gneiss

---

BTW my tengu still flys backwards...after two patches. QUALITY

---

FINALLY SOME TRUTH!!

Originally by: vasuul

---

new missions would be nice too I mean how many times can you save the damsel ,before ya start thinking lock the stupid ***** in a safe so she cant get kidnapped

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

---

Originally by: Ping Pong Wong

---

totally agree with OP, 0.0 could be such an intersting place if there was sone mechanics to allow a small but good corp/alliance to be able to own land and not lose sov to blobs who probably will not use that land and defend it with pride and fun as the small gang who from the start cant participate or get a chance to grow without having to join zerg alliances.

i.e a 50man corp attacked by a 5000 people alliance is rediculous, there are plentys of solutions to this yet ccp just release more broken crap thats either worthless in terms of gameplay and ignores fixing/balancing the fun content of the game that is just the spirit of this

---

Originally by: Lusulpher

---

And then turn on them. To milk them of as much money as possible after years of torture and delayed improvement!

---

FINALLY SOME TRUTH!!

Originally by: Jiska Ensa

---

I remember when everyone was *****ing that they wanted fixes rather than new content.

Now everyone is *****ing they want new content.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore...

---

Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk

---

Whencan we expect a Proper Content Expansion?

When enough people stop paying for the game without proper content updates.

If they halt development on EVE, and people STILL pay/play.... it would take an honorable Development team to do Content anyways.

We already found out what this team is doing. The bare minimum until people actualy quit paying.

Unfortunately, there are just way too many people who are so highly investedin the game, they cant just up and quit.If they would realize, quitting would only be temporary. Only long enough to force ccp's hands. And then they could resume as usual.....

But i fear the current atmosphere is Business as Usual at the CCPs from now on.....

---

Originally by: Jason1138

---

i saw a CCP employee say on another thread a couple months ago that the next T3's would probably not be released until 2014, so i pretty much agree with you

when you look at the last 3 releases, they've been more focused on removing things and nerfing things than they have introducing anything. The next 2 or 3 seem to be basically walking in stations type stuff, to hear the talk. I would expect a continuing smoke and mirrors performance where CCP shifts things around (like this scanning stuff, or removing social skills) to make it seem as if the game is being updated in major ways, when in reality most of the man hours are going into things that no one wants or cares about

that's why I unsubbed before this "expansion", because its clear we're not going to get any significant content for years, and why do you want to pay maintainence on a game in the hope that 2 years from now it will be good?

I personally don't even mind the microtransactions, it was the total lack of content over the last year (other than incursions), combined with the promise of continuing no content, combined with the outright rudeness and disrespect of the CCP employees that drove me away

---

Originally by: Isabelle Evotori

---

If you don't like the game ... or where it is going. you can always make like a tree and leave...

---

Originally by: Lusulpher

---

My issue is, why would you invite 300,000 violent, conniving strangers to your shared server, challenge them with a sadistic interface, harassing bugs, political assassination, and the threat of bankruptcy and ruination at EVERY MOMENT.

And then turn on them. To milk them of as much money as possible after years of torture and delayed improvement!




It's like beating a hornet's nest with your ****, while on a ladder.

---

Originally by: Kinuko

---

You can expect more content that is tied to MT system. So if you don't want to pay for more $$$ then no content for you.

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

Originally by: stoicfaux

---

Go here and sign/give a thumbs up to the Assembly Hall petition for our CSM to get a dev roadmap for Eve.

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

There are enough 'features' already in game, all they should be thinking about now is raising the standard of quality for all aspects of the game that is currently in existence;

Game Stability (less lag & DT)
Ship Balance
Ship (V3?) Redesigns
FW (lol)
etc, etc, etc...

im sure there is a list of things needing to be done in the '1000 papercuts thread', I would be perfectly happy if they spend the next year just following up on things in game that could/should be expanded upon/fixed.

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

There are enough 'features' already in game, all they should be thinking about now is raising the standard of quality for all aspects of the game that is currently in existence;

Game Stability (less lag & DT)
Ship Balance
Ship (V3?) Redesigns
FW (lol)
etc, etc, etc...

im sure there is a list of things needing to be done in the '1000 papercuts thread', I would be perfectly happy if they spend the next year just following up on things in game that could/should be expanded upon/fixed.

---

If you read the csm minutes you will see that ccp is not putting the resources toward core eve gameplay. The only thing they will be working on in the forseeable future is incarnatransactions, wod, and dust.

---

Originally by: dev blog

---

Currently, there are three main teams working on EVE Flying-in-Space content (as opposed to Incarna, infrastructure development [Carbon], performance [Gridlock], and so on). These are Team BFF (Little Things), Team TriLambda (Art), and Team Commie Pinkos (Content, such as missions).

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

ORLY?

Originally by: dev blog

---

Currently, there are three main teams working on EVE Flying-in-Space content (as opposed to Incarna, infrastructure development [Carbon], performance [Gridlock], and so on). These are Team BFF (Little Things), Team TriLambda (Art), and Team Commie Pinkos (Content, such as missions).

---

So really what you're saying is the dev blog had too many words and you stopped reading it because you wanted to shoot a statue in Jita?

---

Originally by: Sister Bliss

---

I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

There are enough 'features' already in game, all they should be thinking about now is raising the standard of quality for all aspects of the game that is currently in existence;

Game Stability (less lag & DT)
Ship Balance
Ship (V3?) Redesigns
FW (lol)
etc, etc, etc...

im sure there is a list of things needing to be done in the '1000 papercuts thread', I would be perfectly happy if they spend the next year just following up on things in game that could/should be expanded upon/fixed.

---

If you read the csm minutes you will see that ccp is not putting the resources toward core eve gameplay. The only thing they will be working on in the forseeable future is incarnatransactions, wod, and dust.

---

ORLY?.

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

Originally by: dev blog

---

Currently, there are three main teams working on EVE Flying-in-Space content (as opposed to Incarna, infrastructure development [Carbon], performance [Gridlock], and so on). These are Team BFF (Little Things), Team TriLambda (Art), and Team Commie Pinkos (Content, such as missions).

---

So really what you're saying is the dev blog had too many words and you stopped reading it because you wanted to shoot a statue in Jita?

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

There are enough 'features' already in game, all they should be thinking about now is raising the standard of quality for all aspects of the game that is currently in existence;

Game Stability (less lag & DT)
Ship Balance
Ship (V3?) Redesigns
FW (lol)
etc, etc, etc...

---

If you read the csm minutes you will see that ccp is not putting the resources toward core eve gameplay.

---

ORLY?.

---

really really

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

Originally by: dev blog

---

Currently, there are three main teams working on EVE Flying-in-Space content (as opposed to Incarna, infrastructure development [Carbon], performance [Gridlock], and so on). These are Team BFF (Little Things), Team TriLambda (Art), and Team Commie Pinkos (Content, such as missions).

---

So really what you're saying is the dev blog had too many words and you stopped reading it because you wanted to shoot a statue in Jita?

---

No what I am saying is that what you post proves my point. There are the same number of teams they had back in june of 2010. They had 22 devs on FIS divided into 3 teams. Missions team, art team, and features team. They appearantly renamed the "features team" from july of 2010 the BFF team but nothing was added.

---

Originally by: jackaloped

---

If you read the csm minutes you will see that ccp is not putting the resources toward core eve gameplay. The only thing they will be working on in the forseeable future is incarnatransactions, wod, and dust.

---

Originally by: Cpt Flowers

---

Bump -awaiting CCP response-.

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

So really what you're saying is the dev blog had too many words and you stopped reading it because you wanted to shoot a statue in Jita?

---

Originally by: Mater Dolorosa

---

When 90% of the income generated by Eve is used for other things than Eve what can you expect ?

---

Originally by: Cpt Flowers

---

-awaiting CCP response-.

---

Originally by: Pure Tabasco

---

Actually, I say we got to give credit to the art team. The only ones giving new stuff to EVE Online in each expansion. Even if its little.

---

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian

---

It's just general change in direction of CCP's thinking, from making EVE the best virtual world it could possibly be, and making a profit from that, to monetizing the sh*t out if it, and making a profit from that (and screw the virtual world), that's made me a sad bunny.

---

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2

---

Where can i read lastests CSM minutes ?

---

Originally by: Meridian Siri

---

For those that have not seen this: Stats on account activity by expansion.

tl;dr - uses rolling averages of server activity to gauge the "success" of all expansions to date. Including this one. Definitely worth looking at the table in it at least.

---

Originally by: Obviously Confidential

---

Latest PCU was during 2010 Alliance Tournament, this year even with all the marketing prizes for guessing matches as an incentive to keep people online, they failed to beat it.

...

CCP will find out, they are truly Fearless.

---

Originally by: G 0 D

---

Originally by: Meridian Siri

---

For those that have not seen this: Stats on account activity by expansion.

tl;dr - uses rolling averages of server activity to gauge the "success" of all expansions to date. Including this one. Definitely worth looking at the table in it at least.

---

Empyrean AgeFaction war+0.5%+7.1%-8.5%Major failure
Quantum RiseNano nerf+18.5% +30.5% +24.7% Major success
ApocryphaWormholes+11.4%+10.7%+5.7%Success
DominionSov changes+13.6%+13.5%+6.4%Success
TyrannisPI +6.1%+2.6%-0.6%Failure
IncursionIncursions+8.9%+16.8%-5.0%Failure
IncarnaCQ -1.8%?????????

Interesting link, this was copied and pasted from it. thanks.

---

Originally by: Starlight Twilight

---

waiting for CCP response

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Edited by: Malcanis on 02/07/2011 07:54:40
OK so putting the current shennanigans aside for a moment, let's look at some facts:

CCP told us ~14 months ago that it would :18 months: until we got any substantial new SpaceshipsEVE content (Summer Of Rage '10, etc.). Since when we've had a minor but nice expansion of PvE in the forum of Incursions

After all the Rage, we got a bone thrown to us in the form of Team BFF and Team Gridlock. Both of whom have done genuinely good work; in fact they're the ones who pretty much kept me subscribed between then and now. Team BFF have fixed a surprisingly enormous number of longstanding minor irritants (as well as a few things that didn't need fixing) and generally smoothed off some of the more jagged rusty edges from the user experience.

Team Gridlock have done outstanding work. Everyone who rages about CCP should always include a "...but at least Team Gridlock are improving performance" clause in their manifestos. I'm going to straight out say that in my opinion, general server performance is the best I've ever seen since I've started playing EVE. Lag is better now even than it was in Apocrypha. I'm not saying things are perfect, but if we're being honest, then for fights around the 200-300 level, they're pretty good. You can have a good sized fight and lag is simply not noticeable. If anyone doesn't think that's a massive technical achievement then they should point out some counter-examples.

So while the spaceships game is stagnant content-wise, it's dishonest to say that it has been totally neglected or even that it's not incrementally improving in terms of the core technology.

It sure could have been improved a hell of a lot more if the resources that were poured into walking in waiting rooms had been put into new content, and I'm as disappointed with the return on that investment as anyone here, but that's beyond discussion now. It's happened, and raging about it wont change that.

And most of the resources that have been put into SpaceshipsEVE have been put into the underlying codebase. Which, adorable little ADHD monkeys that we are, we don't really notice, because nothing's different, just incrementally better. Gridlock make a new optimisation that improves TQ performance under strain by 8%, no one says a damb thing. But the fight size limit for optimal performance goes up from 200 people to 216. It's an excellent technical achievement, but we don't really notice it, even though it's happened multiple times in the last year and the dark days of disconnects and desynch with 20 in local have been banished.

I'm told that the new NPE based in Incarna is actually quite nice, but lets face it, EVE isn't going to see - hasn't seen - a massive influx of players because the tutorial looks prettier and you can see your avatar in it. What's going to draw new people in and old people back is new things to do.

So in a weird way, we're in potentially quite a positive situation. We have the core spaceships game, long starved of new content but on a much sounder technological foundation, and CCP now have every incentive to put some new shiny in as soon as they possibly can because they desperately need some new subscriptions. Even if we didn't give two ****s about new content, they'd still be planning to put some in because they absolutely HAVE to.

Some of that new content will be in Incarna. In fact if I had to guess, I'd say that eventually a majority of new content will be, because SpaceshipsEVE is over 8 years old now, and we dont need more ships and we have 7000 systems and we dont really need much more space (some more non-sov 0.0 wouldn't go amiss, mind you.). In comparison, Incarna is a wide-open frontier full of new potential.
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Originally by: Lakuma

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well you can join me and the droves of now burnt (we already flamed) bitter vets leaving EVE until the next expansion (that likely won't be any better since it's hard to beat a 5 expansion streak of crap).

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Originally by: Sister Bliss

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I believe I have a pretty good idea what the majority wants actually. But I do not claim to speak for you or everyone*. Fact is the majority do not want space barbie, or rather they do not want it at the expense of prioritisation over space ships. Canvas enough of the alliance leaderships in eve and they can tell you the same based on interaction with their own members. But that isn't the point, no need to make a personal attack out of it.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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I am not saying that the expansions CCP releases are perfect, but I am saying that what 'the community wants' is impossible to deliver, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

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Originally by: Kendon riddick

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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I am not saying that the expansions CCP releases are perfect, but I am saying that what 'the community wants' is impossible to deliver, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

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CCP constantly wind up the player base like pretending CSM is real.

They ask what we want, we tell them, then we get somthing else anyway.

I didnt join eve X years ago to walk around my station X years later.

I dont expect to get expansions as good as any other expansion, but then if they arnt really adding anything new or revolutionary, just add it to the next expansion instead and be popular with the player base again.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Kendon riddick

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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I am not saying that the expansions CCP releases are perfect, but I am saying that what 'the community wants' is impossible to deliver, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

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CCP constantly wind up the player base like pretending CSM is real.

They ask what we want, we tell them, then we get somthing else anyway.

I didnt join eve X years ago to walk around my station X years later.

I dont expect to get expansions as good as any other expansion, but then if they arnt really adding anything new or revolutionary, just add it to the next expansion instead and be popular with the player base again.

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They ask everybody what they want and give as much of it as they can. I have seen 24 bazillion posts claiming that CCP did not give what the players asked for, when what they really mean is CCP didn't give them what they asked for.

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Originally by: Meridian Siri

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Originally by: G 0 D

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Originally by: Meridian Siri

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For those that have not seen this: Stats on account activity by expansion.

tl;dr - uses rolling averages of server activity to gauge the "success" of all expansions to date. Including this one. Definitely worth looking at the table in it at least.

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[t]
Empyrean AgeFaction war+0.5%+7.1%-8.5%Major failure
Quantum RiseNano nerf+18.5% +30.5% +24.7% Major success
ApocryphaWormholes+11.4%+10.7%+5.7%Success
DominionSov changes+13.6%+13.5%+6.4%Success
TyrannisPI +6.1%+2.6%-0.6%Failure
IncursionIncursions+8.9%+16.8%-5.0%Failure
IncarnaCQ -1.8%?????????
[/t]

Interesting link, this was copied and pasted from it. thanks.

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NP. I was wondering about the many post of "numbers aren't down". Statistically, it is quite clear that they are. So folks can stfu with that bogus argument. We can speculate as to the reason WHY, but it seems quite clear that the mark has been missed with the last several expansions...at least the players seemed to think so.

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Originally by: Laser Purification

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Good post.

"Phased Deployment" of expansions is just another way of admitting they don't have the resources to put our a real Eve expansion.

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Originally by: Abriael VonRosen

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Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 16:52:19

Originally by: Sister Bliss

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I believe I have a pretty good idea what the majority wants actually. But I do not claim to speak for you or everyone*. Fact is the majority do not want space barbie, or rather they do not want it at the expense of prioritisation over space ships. Canvas enough of the alliance leaderships in eve and they can tell you the same based on interaction with their own members. But that isn't the point, no need to make a personal attack out of it.

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You don't claim to speak for everyone, but you claim to speak for the majority, which is equally faulty.

In any case it's very likely that gameplay-related content will come for sure at least by summer 2012.

Given the gameplay interaction between Eve and Dust, it's very unlikely that Dust will be launched without quite a lot of related content on the Eve side.

Maybe you don't care, but I, for one, look forward to it, as I look forward to see the evolution of Incarna-related content.

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